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It seems so unreasonable when you put it that way: My wife left me because sometimes I leave dishes by the sink.
It makes her seem ridiculous; and makes me seem like a victim of unfair expectations.
We like to point fingers at other things to explain why something went wrong, like when Biff Tannen crashed George McFly’s car and spilled beer on his clothes, but it was all George’s fault for not telling him the car had a blind spot.
This bad thing happened because of this, that, and the other thing. Not because of anything I did!
Sometimes I leave used drinking glasses by the kitchen sink, just inches away from the dishwasher.
It isn’t a big deal to me now. It wasn’t a big deal to me when I was married. But it WAS a big deal to her.
Every time she’d walk into the kitchen and find a drinking glass by the sink, she moved incrementally closer to moving out and ending our marriage. I just didn’t know it yet. But even if I had, I fear I wouldn’t have worked as hard to change my behavior as I would have stubbornly tried to get her to see things my way.
The idiom “to cut off your nose to spite your face” was created for such occasions.
Men Are Not Children, Even Though We Behave Like Them
Feeling respected by others is important to men.
Feeling respected by one’s wife is essential to living a purposeful and meaningful life. Maybe I thought my wife should respect me simply because I exchanged vows with her. It wouldn’t be the first time I acted entitled. One thing I know for sure is that I never connected putting a dish in the dishwasher with earning my wife’s respect.
Yesterday I responded to a comment by @insanitybytes22, in which she suggested things wives and mothers can do to help men as an olive branch instead of blaming men for every marital breakdown. I appreciated her saying so.
But I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of.
I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.
I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time.
Men Can Do Things
Men invented heavy machines that can fly in the air reliably and safely. Men proved the heliocentric model of the solar system, establishing that the Earth orbits the Sun. Men design and build skyscrapers, and take hearts and other human organs from dead people and replace the corresponding failing organs inside of living people, and then those people stay alive afterward. Which is insane.
Men are totally good at stuff.
Men are perfectly capable of doing a lot of these things our wives complain about. What we are not good at is being psychic, or accurately predicting how our wives might feel about any given thing because male and female emotional responses tend to differ pretty dramatically.
‘Hey Matt! Why would you leave a glass by the sink instead of putting it in the dishwasher?’
Several reasons.
- I may want to use it again.
- I don’t care if a glass is sitting by the sink unless guests are coming over.
- I will never care about a glass sitting by the sink. Ever. It’s impossible. It’s like asking me to make myself interested in crocheting, or to enjoy yardwork. I don’t want to crochet things. And it’s hard for me to imagine a scenario in which doing a bunch of work in my yard sounds more appealing than ANY of several thousand less-sucky things which could be done.
There is only ONE reason I will ever stop leaving that glass by the sink. A lesson I learned much too late: Because I love and respect my partner, and it REALLY matters to her. I understand that when I leave that glass there, it hurts her— literally causes her pain—because it feels to her like I just said: “Hey. I don’t respect you or value your thoughts and opinions. Not taking four seconds to put my glass in the dishwasher is more important to me than you are.”
All the sudden, it’s not about something as benign and meaningless as a (quasi) dirty dish.
Now, it’s a meaningful act of love and sacrifice, and really? Four seconds? That doesn’t seem like the kind of thing too big to do for the person who sacrifices daily for me.
I don’t have to understand WHY she cares so much about that stupid glass.
I just have to understand and respect that she DOES. Then caring about her = putting glass in dishwasher.
Caring about her = keeping your laundry off the floor.
Caring about her = thoughtfully not tracking dirt or whatever on the floor she worked hard to clean.
Caring about her = taking care of kid-related things so she can just chill out for a little bit and not worry about anything.
Caring about her = “Hey babe. Is there anything I can do today or pick up on my way home that will make your day better?”
Caring about her = a million little things that say “I love you” more than speaking the words ever can.
…..
Shameless Relationship Coaching Plug:
If you or your partner are interested in working with me one-on-one or in a group setting, you can learn more about my relationship coaching work and book a session here. (P.S. – I’ve evolved quite a bit from this 2016 blog post. But it still makes for good conversation.)
…..
Yes, It’s That Simple
The man capable of that behavioral change—even when he doesn’t understand her or agree with her thought-process—can have a great relationship.
Men want to fight for their right to leave that glass there. It might look like this:
“Eat shit, wife,” we think. “I sacrifice a lot for you, and you’re going to get on me about ONE glass by the sink? THAT little bullshit glass that takes a few seconds to put in the dishwasher, which I’ll gladly do when I know I’m done with it, is so important to you that you want to give me crap about it? You want to take an otherwise peaceful evening and have an argument with me, and tell me how I’m getting something wrong and failing you, over this glass? After all of the big things I do to make our life possible—things I never hear a “thank you” for (and don’t ask for)—you’re going to elevate a glass by the sink into a marriage problem? I couldn’t be THAT petty if I tried. And I need to dig my heels in on this one. If you want that glass in the dishwasher, put it in there yourself without telling me about it. Otherwise, I’ll put it away when people are coming over, or when I’m done with it. This is a bullshit fight that feels unfair and I’m not just going to bend over for you.”
The man DOES NOT want to divorce his wife because she’s nagging him about the glass thing which he thinks is totally irrational. He wants her to agree with him that when you put life in perspective, a glass being by the sink when no one is going to see it anyway, and the solution takes four seconds, is just not a big problem. She should recognize how petty and meaningless it is in the grand scheme of life, he thinks, and he keeps waiting for her to agree with him.
She will never agree with him, because it’s not about the glass for her. The glass situation could be ANY situation in which she feels unappreciated and disrespected by her husband.
The wife doesn’t want to divorce her husband because he leaves used drinking glasses by the sink.
She wants to divorce him because she feels like he doesn’t respect or appreciate her, which suggests he doesn’t love her, and she can’t count on him to be her lifelong partner. She can’t trust him. She can’t be safe with him. Thus, she must leave and find a new situation in which she can feel content and secure.
In theory, the man wants to fight this fight, because he thinks he’s right (and I agree with him): The dirty glass is not more important than marital peace.
If his wife thought and felt like him, he’d be right to defend himself. Unfortunately, most guys don’t know that she’s NOT fighting about the glass. She’s fighting for acknowledgment, respect, validation, and his love.
If he KNEW that—if he fully understood this secret she has never explained to him in a way that doesn’t make her sound crazy to him (causing him to dismiss it as an inconsequential passing moment of emo-ness), and that this drinking glass situation and all similar arguments will eventually end his marriage, I believe he WOULD rethink which battles he chose to fight, and would be more apt to take action doing things he understands to make his wife feel loved and safe.
I think a lot of times, wives don’t agree with me. They don’t think it’s possible that their husbands don’t know how their actions make her feel because she has told him, sometimes with tears in her eyes, over and over and over and over again how upset it makes her and how much it hurts.
And this is important: Telling a man something that doesn’t make sense to him once, or a million times, doesn’t make him “know” something. Right or wrong, he would never feel hurt if the same situation were reversed so he doesn’t think his wife SHOULD hurt. It’s like, he doesn’t think she has the right to (and then use it as a weapon against him) because it feels unfair.
“I never get upset with you about things you do that I don’t like!” men reason, as if their wives are INTENTIONALLY choosing to feel hurt and miserable.
When you choose to love someone, it becomes your pleasure to do things that enhance their lives and bring you closer together, rather than a chore.
It’s not: Sonofabitch, I have to do this bullshit thing for my wife again. It’s: I’m grateful for another opportunity to demonstrate to my wife that she comes first and that I can be counted on to be there for her, and needn’t look elsewhere for happiness and fulfillment.
Once someone figures out how to help a man equate the glass situation (which does not, and will never, affect him emotionally) with DEEPLY wounding his wife and making her feel sad, alone, unloved, abandoned, disrespected, afraid, etc. … Once men really grasp that and accept it as true even though it doesn’t make sense to them?
Everything changes forever.
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Does your wife (ex) read your column? Does she find it entertaining, or does it make her angry?
She used to. I can’t be certain she does now. We don’t discuss it. If she does read it, I doubt she finds it entertaining, but I’m also certain it doesn’t make her angry. She’s not shy. If she’s pissed, I’ll hear about it.
We have found a very nice balance, she and I, supporting one another as best we can post-marriage on behalf of our son.
I don’t write much about it intentionally. But considering where we were just three years ago, I am extraordinarily proud of where we are today.
You should be proud. Just because things fell apart doesn’t mean you have to stay there.
Good for you two!!!
Would you stop writing the column if she didn’t like it? This is the post of someone who still doesn’t get it. If she doesn’t like you leaving something by the sink she needs to put it in the dishwasher. Just like you may not like something she does. If she is going to take something that small and turn it into something so serious she has a problem. My wife leaves crap all over and it bugs me so I move it. I don’t take it as an affront to my wedding vows. It sounds like you have apologized for being normal which it probably what got you in trouble in the first place. If you establish a pattern of ass kissing the “partner” comes to expect more ass kissing. If you establish mutual respect for each others idiosyncrasies from the get go I don’t think you will ever find this. Just some advice from someone who is still happily married to my original wife for 20 years who leaves crap all over the house (26 years together total).
You’re doing it right now. The thing I’m talking about.
You think because it doesn’t bother you, that it SHOULDN’T bother her.
It’s a logical fallacy, and causes more affairs and divorce than any other belief.
You’re an anomaly, Brian. By virtue of being married (and together) for 26 years, you’re an anomaly. And you know it, because more than half of the people you know have gotten divorced. It’s a statistical certainty.
I think it’s awesome that you’ve found a way to make it work. It’s GREAT. It means you have something really great about your psychological makeup and chemistry, and it probably also means that your wife has some exceptional qualities and you appreciate those MORE than you resent her shortcomings.
But, with all due respect, if you’re advising married men to fight this fight? To challenge their wives every time they have a disagreement because “the Man Way is the right way”?
They’re going to get divorced. They just are.
If you and I talk about things women do that upset us, our lists will look similar, just as when women discuss things that men do that upset them, their lists look similar.
Until BOTH lists are respected, acknowledged, and considered equally valid by men, relationships will continue to break, and kids will continue to have their worlds ripped apart.
And, for what? Because “It’s My Way or the Highway?”
I’m sorry. But, that only perpetuates the problem.
I do appreciate you reading and commenting. Thank you.
Brian,
My wife just emailed me this article and told me to read it. I read it. I agree with you. We have been married for almost 8 years and together for 12. We have moved all over the world together and I know there are things that I do that just grind her gears down to the bone, but there are things she does as well. Either you learn to accept each other and love each other and yourself, or you let petty things get in the middle and take you down. IF it isn’t the dishes then it will be something else, her unhappiness has nothing to do with you, there will always be something. one thing I have learned is I have to be happy and awesome because that’s what she needs is an awesome and happy husband. When you are resposible for your own happinness nothing anybody does bothers you.
Sorry Matt, but if it wasn’t the dishes it would be something else and you really need to come to terms with the fact that it had more to do with her.
“She wants to divorce him because she feels like he doesn’t respect or appreciate her, which suggests he doesn’t love her, and she can’t count on him to be her lifelong partner” I think that statement says it the best, she needs to look inward and see that this is all her. She doesn’t love herself, she doesn’t respect herself, people CAN’T make people feel anyway that a fact! It is all a choice, a personal choice, happiness, sadness, love it is all a personal choice and that is how I choose to live my life. She chose this and I feel like you are still there three years ago asking yourself what could I have done differently. I think she didn’t love herself, blamed you because we are a society of people who do no wrong, and you are still there asking yourself what could I have done differently.
BRO – quit living in the past, realize you did the best you could, realize she made a choice and live in the PRESENT
good luck.
What is so hard about metaphor, I wonder? She didn’t leave because I left dishes by the sink.
You and Brian can go ahead and agree all you want.
Your way = shitty marriage.
And that’s your choice to make. I wish you all the luck in the world, because even though we don’t agree, I promise you I want you two to stay married forever.
I really hope you find a way. Thanks for commenting.
I’m not anomaly, there are plenty of people who stay married their whole lives, over half. Because so many continue to make the same mistakes. You have taken the advice of someone who has done it right and turned it into the exception. I think if you ask any of the long time married couples how they did it you will certainly hear, “don’t sweat the small stuff” regularly. Turning a cup into a battle is exactly what I said you shouldn’t do and if you find yourself dating someone that does that you shouldn’t get married. All the first divorces I’ve seen were based on relationships where the men did whatever they were told to get to the nooky. It established a bad basis for the relationship long term. It made the woman happy because she got what she wanted (treated like a queen) and the man happy because he got what he wanted (sex not withheld). As far as 50% divorce rate, once you break the seal it appears people pull the trigger on that much more easily resulting in 3-4 divorces. Again probably because they ignore the advice of those who have figured it out and instead listen to the theories of those who haven’t.
As a woman, while I found it impressive that the author was able to come to this conclusion, for my marriage I find that Brian’s perspective is more fruitful.
I’m not saying that you are wrong, maybe if you had taken the time to put a dish in the dishwasher you would still be married. I’m not sure on that one. Again, reminding you that I am a woman, I find the cup in dish washer or cup in sink argument to be quite petty. When I eat a bowl of cereal in the mornings I literally always sit the milk (almond so it doesn’t spoil rapidly) out until I’m finished with it. I have literally done this since I was old enough to prepare my own bowl of cereal. Now that I’m married, a stay at home mom with an unusually intelligent and equally mischievous 16 month old, I often forget to put the milk away.
That, among many other things, drives my husband nutty. But he doesn’t make it into a huge issue and decide that “because you left the milk out you don’t respect me”. There is a huge leap between a cup (or milk) left in an undesired location and lack of respect. In between the two there are clearly much larger issues.
My husband, when he cleans up, stuffs things in random bags. My guess is that due to his height and muscular build, his clothing and shoes didn’t always fit in their purposed location within his childhood room. Thus, he improvised. I find it annoying nonetheless mostly because it makes it difficult to find anything. My son’s baby crayons have been missing for months. I haven’t even mentioned this annoyance to him much. Probably only once. Instead, when he cleans up I later go through the bag and put the items elsewhere. I wouldn’t equate his behavior to disrespect because he respects me in literally COUNTLESS other ways. He works extremely hard so that my son can have me with him 24/7. He’s the top employee on his team at work because he gets up and prays at 4 am before heading to work and then comes home and helps me straighten up. He listens to my feelings and responds to my needs. So a bag full of miscellaneous items or almond milk on the center island is an annoyance but not a sign of the level of respect we have for one another.
My advice, and I haven’t been married nearly as long as Brian, but my husband and I have been through extremely trying times together (the most recent being the loss of our daughter at 19 weeks gestation), would be to not allow these small issues to impact your view on one another. Keep it in perspective. Try to gain an understanding for why your partner does what he or she does because, honestly, “I don’t want to dirty up a million cups every time I want a drink” is actually quite reasonable. And finally, if there is a problem within the marriage or if one partner feels there is a lack of respect, deal with that problem but don’t allow yourself to be illogical because of it. Communicate your feelings to your partner and deal with it together.
I’ll also add that you cannot have true love between you and your partner without patience. So if there is something you are in communication about and it doesn’t change immediately, work with each other and show some understanding. Say to yourself, “hey, she or he has been leaving a cup by the sink for 20 plus years. It may not change in a few days”.
“He listens to my feelings and responds to my needs”. And that’s the big difference. The cup by the dishwasher is a metaphor for Matt not doing either of those things, which magnifies everything.
Your husband listening to you and responding to your needs mean that his habit of putting stuff in random bags means that it just stays an annoying habit.No more
And a big P.S., I don’t think it doesn’t bother my wife, I know it doesn’t because I….. hold on this is a big one… talk to her!
I’m reading this for the first time in six years and am annoyed all over again. I’m not leaving this reply for Brian. I’m leaving this reply for any new readers who are looking at this comment thread. And I just want to point out the obvious for anyone who’s missing it:
The notion of Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff IS totally good advice under a very specific set of circumstances. It is. If you are not bothered by so-called “small things” you will definitely have less conflict in your relationships than if one or both of you do sweat the so-called small things.
But that advice is also tantamount to saying: “If I poke you in the arm with a needle every day, I want you to not react to it, since in the grand scheme of things, it’s a relatively minor pain. Stop being a wimp and making a big deal out of it!”
If you want to maintain Safety and Trust in your relationships — and I implore you to want to because it’s the most important ingredient there is for health and longevity — then please realize that we don’t get to decide what is and what is not painful for other people.
Brian’s advice six years ago is exactly the same as hurting someone, and then telling them they’re overreacting or that they should not be hurt, because we don’t believe the incident was as harmful or painful as they’re claiming. And you’re free to take that approach, but you WILL lose the trust of the other person over time if that’s your approach.
Brian wasn’t calculating for the fact that his wife was NOT hurt by a dish by the sink. Which is great! Some people like shellfish. Some people don’t. Some people have nut allergies. Some people don’t. Some people are afraid of heights. Some people aren’t.
Different people have radically different experiences when they live through certain moments. And if you want to have Safety and Trust in your relationships, it’s really important that you honor the way THEY experience things. If someone is afraid of heights, and you are constantly forcing them onto hot air balloons or ferris wheels or mountain cliff ledges, they will probably stop wanting to be around you.
If a dish by the sink (or literally ANYTHING) hurts or upsets or otherwise is a negative experience for your relationship partner, we MUST honor their experiences if we want to maintain trust and a healthy relationship with them.
Brian is confusing winning the lottery of his wife’s personality and individual characteristics with advice that can apply universally to all people. I beg you to not buy into it unless you like slowly destroying your most important relationships.
I’m curious Matt, were there any things your wife did that drove you crazy? If so, did she accommodate your requests? Genuinly curious
Hi Matthew, I’m new to your blog and it really resonates with me. In the old thread you say
“If you and I talk about things women do that upset us, our lists will look similar, just as when women discuss things that men do that upset them, their lists look similar. Until BOTH lists are respected, acknowledged, and considered equally valid by men, relationships will continue to break, and kids will continue to have their worlds ripped apart.” As a wife, I’d be really interested to know what your list would look like if you’re happy to share.
Love this so much – what you write is so true. I can’t understand why people are taking the glass by the sink so literally – it’s not about the glass!!!!
Brian’s point is valid, but also beside the point. If Matt realized early on that putting the cup in the dishwasher was important to his wife, he could have decided that A…she wasn’t the one for him, or B…that this was a small, kind thing he could do to make the person he was committed to happy. Or he could have started with B, then moved to A if– as Brian intimates–he begins to feel hen pecked.
Bur Matt’s posts serve a different purpose.
Matt’s posts are for people who don’t even know that A & B are options. Matt’s post are for the person who doesn’t even understand the cup in the dishwasher is important to their partner, and so they are not even engaging with their partner on the topic. The partners are in different realities. Matt talked to his wife. And his wife talked to him. He just wasn’t hearing her. So he couldn’t choose between A & B. She (rightly, IMHO) felt invisible because of it.
I was in a marriage for 18 years where I felt invisible. There was no room for compromise or getting my needs met, because I was always being ‘too sensitive’ or ‘making a big deal out of nothing.’ I certainly had things I needed to do differently in that marriage, and I am a more self assertive and independent person today. Perhaps I used to be the kind of woman that Brian warns about. But my husband did not want the divorce I chose, and perhaps we could have learned together how to compromise if I had semi-regularly felt that my opinions and needs were one of his priorities.
““Hey. I don’t respect you or value your thoughts and opinions. Not taking four seconds to put my glass in the dishwasher is more important to me than you are.”
That hurt to read those words because this happened in my marriage – it wasn’t about glasses but rather about many things deemed “woman’s work” which I am not a fan of at all. I am not as sensitive about many things but his outlook on a bunch of little things is what made me close off to him years before our actual divorce. I knew I would not spend my years after kids with a person like him. My husband never tried to understand what you have so eloquently and simply explained.
In my narrow once married opinion, It is THIS article that can help the woman’s husband from
http://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/01/12/got-any-suggestions-for-this-exhausted-wife/
P.S. Will You Marry Me?
I’m sorry, Jayne. I know that different things trigger different memories and feelings.
It IS sad. Even though I accept responsibility for my marriage ending, there are still things that happened that hurt very much.
Once in a while, telling an old story makes me feel some of it. Not often anymore. But, sometimes.
I’m glad you liked that last post. Anytime something I’ve written really hits home for people, I earmark it as something to make sure gets included in this book project I’m doing a bad job of finishing.
Thank you, as always, for reading and being part of the conversation.
…
Did you just propose in a blog comment, Jayne? I love it.
I feel like maybe we should have dinner first!
You didn’t cause the hurt I felt – it’s my interpretation of his actions that hurt. I don’t think he intentionally set out to have me feel these things at all. That’s psychopathic. I take responsibility to a point. We women have our dysfunctional ways too. It’s working them out and understanding them that makes life better…I think. The marriage sentiment will be forever there Matt. Your understanding of this issue made me so happy that I wanted to scoop you up like a found diamond! (Your understanding actually validated my perspective of his attitude as a “simple” issue of recognition rather than me having another complaint. He saw anything that “disturbed” his own view as a challenge or it was me complaining and saying that he was wrong so we never got passed that. It will forever be left without any closure. Fun times!! We all learn at our own speed. I learned that my needs were worth divorcing him for.
I bet nine out of 10 divorcees who read this comment will know exactly what you mean, Jayne. Just like I do.
So, is a winter wedding good for you?!
lol
Wonderful post!! Wonderful and eerily familiar. I often look back at my marriage (and subsequent divorce) and realize that my shortcomings could have been eliminated had I just “put the glass in the dishwasher”.
It is amazing how much clarity has washed over me 3 years after my divorce. The main reason that my marriage ended was I consistently mistook her searching for respect/appreciation for nagging. Hindsight….
Ha. Yeah. You and I speak the same language.
Thank you for “getting it.”
I spend most of my time thinking about, and writing about, stuff like this. The question I always get asked is: “How can I get my husband to understand this stuff now, rather then before it’s too late?”
Or better yet, I wonder: How could we get young people, pre-marriage, to grasp these things people on the other side of divorce recognize as true?
It’s the thing I wrestle with, because if there WAS some magic way to do so, we’d be doing humanity an incredible service.
I’m trying to learn that you can never talk to everyone, and even if you could, most won’t listen.
So you write for the one. That one faceless stranger who will.
And you validating what I’ve written here helps with all of that. With that one person who is paying attention.
Thank you very much for reading and being part of the conversation.
This was very insightful, mature and relatable. It’s nice to read as a woman – an ex-wife – that a man understands we don’t want to nag and there’s more to it than the complaint. We could probably do a better job explaining to our husbands this as well. It’s great for both sides and I think helps us all realize what it is that really gets us upset deep down. Thanks for writing this 🙂
Thank you for saying so.
I feel like anyone who has ever even dated seriously will quickly identify the metaphor.
The disconnect begins when husbands and boyfriends behave as if their wives’ and girlfriends’ feelings are “wrong.”
X happens. She feels Y. She didn’t decide to. She just did.
Moving forward, when X happens, she will feel Y. And Y is shitty and miserable and “Please just stop doing this! For me. Please.”
And he says: “I don’t think it makes sense that X causes you to feel bad, because it doesn’t cause me to feel bad, thus I’m not going to acknowledge or validate your feelings.”
Like something’s wrong with her emotional calibration since it’s different from his.
The same thing is true in reverse, by the way. “Men are silly because they (insert any common male behavior women often roll their eyes at here).”
A husband may never understand how a glass by the sink could be elevated to something worthy of a fight. But so long as he respects that it matters THAT much to her, not only will they never fight about it ever again, she’ll feel loved and secure in ways that will benefit other aspects of their relationship as well.
#ThingsLearnedTheHardWay
So true. Applies to both. Lessons learned indeed. I feel like I’m a better partner now because I learned what I should’ve done better and what I will never tolerate again. Although I’m not proud I’m divorced, I will be better the next time around due to my experience 🙂
I’m in the heat of this right now in my marriage. He doesn’t grasp why X makes me feel the way I do…so as much as I hurt from X, he doesn’t get it…so won’t stop. Thanks for giving me something to show him
I wish you could kidnap or ADULT-nap my ex-husband and really re-train him to think this way. Unfortunately, it is too late for us, but I’m definitely gonna hire you for the next husband for CIA mind control, er, I mean sensitive training…lol.
Don’t train him, miss!
Simply choose one who doesn’t require it. It will save you $50,000 in billing for my super-secret CIA mind-control services. 🙂
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I was never really able to communicate to my husband why the empty glass was so damn important. After a while I just stopped saying anything about it and lowered my expectations. It hurt a lot and I grew to really resent it. It’s different now. Somewhere along the line he figured it out. Its never going to be his forte, but he tries, he really does, and now even if the glass is only making it into the dishwasher 1 time out of 5, I think to myself “He is so sweet to me!” And then I kiss him a lot. So it works out well for both of us ?
Sounds like you were once at the place most wives get to, only you refused to quit.
You presevered. And now, life is better. I hope you’d say it’s really good.
Hard to imagine a better marriage story.
Actually Matt, I was the shitty spouse and I’m very thankful my husband didn’t give up on me. Life IS better, even if we took the scenic route to get here.
Pretty close to my story. Even though my husband doesn’t really get my feelings about being neat and organized, I do believe that he does make attempts. And that makes all the difference in my attitude towards him, which is exactly this article has tried to explain. That “he does care about such things because it matters to ME”. And like you mentioned it is definitely not 100% conversion but it’s the effort that counts. Also, slowly I’ve learnt to take things easy without getting pissed off for every detail of our homes. I now have slowly managed to accept the sheets not being changed as often as I thought they should do. Or sometimes I fold his blanket after he’s left without pointing it out to him that he did it again. It’s been 3 years since we married and too soon to get to a conclusion that we have figured it out but I hope we continue to get better at being married.
Congratulations on three years ☺
Sad situation but beautifully written.
Thank you very much for reading and commenting, Carli.
Really well said, Matt.
There is often a power struggle going on within marriage and I think it’s a good thing, it’s closely entwined with attraction and desire. However, one thing about men is that they tend to just go into battle mode when they feel as if they are being attacked. They protect, defend, man the battle stations. But that gets really complicated when they feel as if they have to defend themselves against the one they have a desire to love and protect.
So while I think you are 100% right about caring, about the importance of taking your wife’s feelings into consideration, the other half of the equation really requires wives to surrender some things, like the need for control over that glass. Or the need to believe that a hubby should “just get it” and the fact that he doesn’t reads like rejection. We really have to lower our expectations, soften our tone, and let go of some of our need for control.
When husbands die, when wives become widows, what we often do is go about the house seeking evidence of that glass on the sink or piles of socks on the floor. Those are the things we miss the most, the aggravating little things that we used to try to control and rid our world of.
“When husbands die, when wives become widows, what we often do is go about the house seeking evidence of that glass on the sink or piles of socks on the floor. Those are the things we miss the most, the aggravating little things that we used to try to control and rid our world of.”
That’ll stick with me for a long time.
This really got to me too. I’ve been in this situation where it seems like I am constantly battling my husband with dishes, making the bed, keeping clothes off the floor and then I found I need to “soften my tone” because I do know he is a man of pure heart and he really doesn’t understand that one way I show my love towards him is by turning our house into a home. This is a man who works hard, adores me through all my faults, and would step in front of a speeding bullet for me without hesitation. I’ve learned to not be so hard on him and accept his faults as he does mine. Maybe it’s a kind of reverse psychology because I’ve noticed since doing this, he does take more effort for things that do matter to me. When I think there could be life without him, those little things just don’t seem so important.
Thank you for your last post that linked me here. This is just amazing and ditto to your comments. Trust me, I’ve got a few widows in my life and I see that in them. And how they gripped about that glasses and then what????
Insanity, your husband is very much alive, so your “we” is not truthful. Just saying.
My husband is alive and well and I am very blessed. That “we” however is a universal we, we wives, we sisters, really do tend to miss the little things that used to make us crazy.
Interesting perspective. My parents were married for almost 52 years, and one of the things that my mom said, though she grieved DEEPLY, was she at least didn’t have to pick up after him any more.
I’m going to have to take issue with part of this reply. I was married for 15 years when my wife died unexpectedly, and the aggravating little things that bugged me then, I don’t miss in the least. I miss her laughter when it snowed, and pausing the TV show to discuss what we just saw, but I definitely don’t miss the flashes of temper or the insecurity she finally was able to beat. What annoyed me then, would still annoy me now if she were here. And I still wish she were here.
‘But my wife didn’t want to be my mother.’
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Or to leave every decision up to her, and then use that to turn around and blame her because something didn’t flow the way you desired.
Ugh.
I wasn’t perfect. Never aspire to be. But I also never wanted to be the CEO of my family with all the hard decisions and everyone depending on me solely…including my spouse. With no support. And with a retort of how my own faults are not recognized enough when I WOULD ask for something I needed (like not feeling like I was #3 after work and kids). Partnership. That’s all.
“Or to leave every decision up to her…”
This is a lesson married female readers of this blog taught me in the comments section of one of my posts one day.
It’s the very premise of An Open Letter to Shitty Husbands, Vol. 6, which before Vol. 1 took off in Google search results last year, was the most-shared post I’d ever written.
“I never get upset with you about things you do that I don’t like!” men reason, as if their wives are INTENTIONALLY choosing to feel hurt and miserable.” << Is exactly what my husband reasons!! And nothing I say makes him know anything ever so I will be sending him this. For whatever reason it all makes sense when it comes from you. Thanks Matt! I always love reading.
Right. I was dumb.
I thought, because I didn’t bitch and nag about anything she did, that she shouldn’t do it to me.
But that’s not what’s happening. Something is causing her PAIN. Internally. It hurts. And then we tell her she’s wrong and dumb. And then it hurts more.
If our wives made us HURT (like they do when the have an affair or leave us), we absolutely say and do things about it.
I thought I was making an apples-to-apples comparison by projecting my life experience and feelings on her.
Another lesson learned.
Yeah, see, I actually resorted to the tactic of trying to ‘make him hurt’ like I hurt, see if he could somehow understand that way…yeah, that was dumb… Obviously.
This. The importance of not confusing our projections with understanding.
I love this whole post and wish I couldn’t identify with it so strongly. I feel disrespected every day because of these “dishes,” and I want to be a mom, but not to my husband. The inexpressible sentiment I’ve been trying so hard to pinpoint has been nicely illustrated in this post – but I wish that I could change how I feel so that I could be a better wife, but don’t think that would automatically make him a better husband. I think that once I start to compromise my feelings, his natural inclination would be to regress – keep more “dishes” out. And that is a dangerous slope towards living with a quality of life below what I wish for myself. So, who do I bend to – him or me?
Well-established and strongly enforced boundaries should exist before people ever decide to live together.
We’re just all young and ignorant and don’t know what we don’t know, so we do it anyway, not realizing there will be a problem.
I guess the second-best thing is to enforce them after the fact.
Far be it from me to act like I know what’s best for you (I certainly don’t), but if I was your friend and you were just asking me what I thought?
I’d say put energy into being the best wife you can be every day REGARDLESS of what might come from it. At least you were always your best self.
That doesn’t mean compromise values, or be a doormat.
Kind AND firm is a thing. It doesn’t necessarily feel “nice.” But when it’s authentic, it feels fair.
I think you’re allowed to give a lot to your marriage, and drop the hammer if and when he’s failing you.
Marriage is about sacrifice.
But it’s not about misery and subjecting oneself to abuse or neglect.
There’s a line that exists between those two places, and only you can know when it’s been crossed.
Very well said, as always.
I think both sides miss the point of most fights, but I agree that most men don’t realize that we women do equate the dirty clothes lying next to the basket and not IN the basket as a personal reflection of our worth to them. On the same note men do the same thing with sex, if they aren’t getting any it must be because they are not loved or found attractive, and to women we think that’s absurd.
Both sides.
I love that you are bringing awareness through the eyes of a man. Hopefully someone catches on before another family is torn apart
Thank you so much Dawn. I don’t know how much awareness I’m bringing.
But I promise to keep doing my best. Have a great weekend!
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This was EXCELLENT but I’m so sorry you learned the lesson too late. Or is it? My husband and I divorced over a similar thing. I wanted to go to church, he didn’t. Thank God, after we moved states apart, we realized our mistakes, reconciled and remarried!! We’ve blogged about it in the beginning of our blog. We’re now full time RVers, traveling around the southeast as we enjoy our two baby grandsons. We had lived 800 miles away and this was a great solution….
Anyway, I’m going to reblog this and share on social media. I’m passionate about marriages!
Apologies for the delayed response, Debbie. Thank you very much for liking this, for sharing it, and for leaving such a nice comment. I’m passionate about marriages, too. I think it’s really hard on people when they end (harder than most of us talk about), and I view it as being a MUCH BIGGER social problem than society seems to give it credit for.
This is my tiny way of trying to be part of the solution.
Reblogged this on Real life…. and commented:
This is refreshingly WONDERFUL! I’m so passionate about marriages and if only every man read this before he drives his wife to divorce, marriages would be saved….and guess what? It’s a two-way street. He now realizes his wife needed to be respected. But guess what, so do men! Husbands and wives, read this together and examine your marriage….
“Men Are Not Children, Even Though We Behave Like Them”… and when a woman spends all day trying to raise a boy into the man she married, the last thing she feels like, is having sex with the child she just had to remind to do 100 things, like the other kids she is raising. Some things are endearing, are little things we pretend annoy us and become a long term inside joke, but the majority of them become festering ‘issues’ which force us into a state of resentment, where at we first we fight to correct them and later we become indifferent to them or we decide to leave them behind.
All partners require training. Either they haven’t learned enough lessons from their mother before they left home, or they failed to learn it from various relationships as they grew up. Lastly, if they didn’t learn it from the woman who was desperate to stay married to him, then ‘maybe’ he learns it when she leaves and his entire life changes. Then he will be a better man for the next woman in his life because of the training he had from the relationship failure. If he doesn’t learn the lesson and repeats it in future relationships, then he is hopeless. He is un-trainable. And he will continue to hurt the woman that come into his life. Unintentionally, of course. He simply thinks all the women he chooses have the exact same issue instead of thinking that the real issue and common theme, is actually himself.
I’m glad you said that. The sex thing.
So, for men, sex is this really big, important thing. Superficially, they want to get off a lot. Meaningfully, physical sex grows the marital bonds of emotional intimacy inside him in the same ways feeling truly loved, respected, appreciated, validated, etc. (from things like putting the glass in the sink, metaphorically or otherwise) grows the bonds of emotional intimacy within her.
So, when he’s a childish douchebag, and she stops wanting him physically, it starts this chain reaction and unhealthy cycle of pushing one another way through very different means.
He wants to have sex (maybe selfishly, but also because to him that’s the answer to “how do we fix this disconnect we feel?”). And she doesn’t because she needs to feel connected BEFORE doing it.
She wants him to exhibit certain behaviors, like taking care of shit, and taking care of her, and being responsible and respectful because to her, that’s the answer to “how do we fix this disconnect we feel?”)
Both things will help.
But I think in most relationships, neither partner recognizes how important each thing is to the other person.
And certainly in the case of sex, I think the man is often far to ignorant to ever connect this disagreement with his wife, with the fundamental breakdown of his sex life.
What usually follows for undisciplined human beings (which, let’s face it, includes MOST people) ends up being very bad.
More time apart. Porn. Physical and/or emotional affairs. BOOM.
Then it’s all over.
Because one or both members of a relationship couldn’t swallow their pride for five seconds and try to give their spouse the thing they needed.
And I believe that most of the time, neither person ever–even once–thought about human behavior and relationships dynamics on a sciencey level like that.
Because no one ever teaches us.
Then we learn the hard way.
Then we have these conversations in blog comments.
Sad shit.
“I think the man is often far to ignorant to ever connect this disagreement with his wife, with the fundamental breakdown of his sex life.”
You know Matt, this is really true. Well perhaps men are not ignorant per se, but many are very resistant to understanding what has caused the lack of attraction and desire. There are all these myths floating around, women just have low sex drives, women are just mean, crazy, punitive and controlling, etc, etc. Not to be impolite here, but I have often found myself wanting to say to some men, “stop, it’s not all about you, all of the time!” The fact that sex is a symbiotic act with cause and effect going on, often eludes many men. If we could capture the nature of female desire and somehow explain to men how to cultivate it, I think a lot of healing could happen in marriages.
Some men also misspell the word “too.” 😉
Writing this comment got me thinking, so I’m going to post about it soon-ish.
So, this comment… This, THIS is marriage and real and heartbreaking and probably the only reason my marriage is here. I have been married since 17… I am now 38. For 21 years I have grown up with a man who leaves dirty socks on top of the freezer and puts pocketsful of hardware in bowls on the kitchen counter, but he also works unti 10 pm and puts a hand on me every time I walk by. In all honesty, we shouldn’t be able to work together. I love reading and hiking and crafting and scifi and Magic and was the oldest of four. I like scrabble and mismatched china and am far too easily amused. He likes hunting and video games and car audio and woodworking. He’s an only child who grew up well-off and regrets every poor choice he has ever made. We are both intelligent, capable people, but we don’t have much in common–except beautiful children and a ridiculous stubborn streak.
And the combined powers of sex and the “okay, Baby”.
Frequently, it is me that realizes the disconnect is becoming a chasm and that we need time… time to spend in each other’s arms really looking into the soul we are joined to, time to sweat and give and take and hold and release. because I realized very early that sex isn’t a tool or a treat, but the deepest level of foundation to him. Not to say it isn’t fun, or playful or silly, but at the core, it reassures him like nothing else. Me wanting him means I love him and respect him and that he is MAN.
And then, there are the days where I am disgruntled and out of sorts and irritated and yell about glasses by the sink and call him a stupid head and demand he acknowledge that all this is his fault, that I am not crazy, but upset and hurt and the damn socks were IN the freezer this time… And he sees the tears I’m not crying and hears something other than the vitriol I am spewing and says “okay, Baby” and kisses me on the cheek as he puts the glass in the dishwasher( or more in keeping with him, back in the cabinet?). And he means it. it is okay. He gets that I am broken, and need him to put me back together, I need hugs and confirmation that my efforts are seen that my patience and tolerance are great but not infallible and that I NEED to know I am loved…
More good days than bad and great ones sprinkled in… That is marriage success.
I am happy I found you this morning, and appreciate you sharing your journey with the world
“All partners require training…if they didn’t learn it from the woman who was desperate to stay married to him, then ‘maybe’ he learns it when she leaves and his entire life changes.”
I find this section of your comment telling. So are you saying that all partners need training, including women, or are you saying all partners need training, but just the men?
ALL partners require training. Most women have no idea how important sex is to men, to convey an emotional connectedness. It’s their currency. It’s what they aren’t doing with their buddies. Most men don’t analyze or think beyond what’s in front of their noses unless it arises as a distraction from something else.
A relationship is a done deal once you are married because a man had a task to achieve, did it and moved on. Now his task is to pay bills. And/Or be a good father. His list very seldom involves talking to his wife about feelings or their marriage or how much her life has changed since becoming a mother. Not unless she brings it up and forces him to. It’s almost always done under duress or as a result of ‘her’ being upset. Not because he sees a need to maintain anything.
If you put a 25yr shingle on your roof, it doesn’t mean that shingle stays in that new condition for 25yrs then suddenly falls off the roof, rotten. It deteriorates over time. And lots can impact it’s lifespan. The more harsh weather, the more storm damage, the more dramatic the change of weather, the sooner the damage accrues. A 25yr shingle has the ‘potential’ to last 25 years in perfect circumstances.
The same can be said of a marriage. But not many marriages are blessed with perfect conditions. Most have financial and emotional issues, job stress, creating or blending family stress, raising children, dealing with parental loss or tragedies along the way. All of them rip at the fabric of that stability and when added together can contribute to the premature failure of what was once, something solid.
Yet even for women who keep having sex with their partners who are acting like assholes, the problem remains that the man has NO motivation to try and work on ‘their issues. Why should he? He is still getting regular sex and if she was mad at him and had sex with him, then what ever she was mad at has magically disappeared. Again, sex is his currency and the transaction means the end of the deal of her being upset.
If a woman continues to have sex with a man and then tried to discuss their issues afterwards, it confuses him. Because they had sex it means everything should be fine. This means she is simply ‘starting’ another fight. He sees no correlation to the same topic being a continuous thread with a sex break in the middle. So, why is it up to the woman to withhold sex from him, as a motivator to try and get him to listen to her concerns or issues?
On Monday, a woman could say, “If you want to have sex on Wednesday night, then I expect you to talk to me about A,B and C between now and then and I need you to do A and B without being asked.” Wednesday night comes around and he either gets a nice shiny good job sticker or not. And how do you think it makes a woman feel to treat her partner like a 4 year old child with a reward system? Sexy? Lustful? No.
It pisses you off that you have to teach him basic courtesy. The only way a woman ends up having sex with a man like this, is when they are desperate for it and forget to withhold it; which then pisses them off afterwards because all you’ve taught him is to just wait a little longer for sex and he STILL can get away with not talking to you about anything that’s relevant.
And many women are immature and have no idea how to talk to men so they understand what they need. They expect a man to simply ‘know’. How are they to know if they’ve never been taught? Which is why a reasonable person tries to teach them what is needed before they decide to leave. The unfortunate thing is so many men are used to not listening that when his partner does leave, it comes as a total blind sided surprise to him.
Ultimately, in many relationships, one partner is more dominant or mature in the relationship than the other. This is who does most of the leg work for making the relationship work.
Great post. Hindsight can be an effective teacher.
One of its lessons is that smart husbands do not turn their wives into their mothers. Another, that empathy is really difficult, especially with our intimates.
Thank you. And yes. Empathy. An underappreciated word and concept for people in relationships.
Practicing it effectively would seem to me to be the difference between who makes it and who doesn’t.
And I don’t just mean “who stays married.” Because LOTS of miserable people technically stay married.
I mean, who has a meaningful and satisfying marriage that gives life purpose instead of feeling like a chore or prison sentence.
Sometimes leaving an empty glass by the sink is just leaving an empty glass by the sink. It is NOT a three demensional mental chess match on relationship management.
That’s especially true for me. That’s how it always was. I did stuff absentmindedly but was interpreted (incorrectly) as some sort of intentional act of disrespect.
Never the case.
However, and I’ve written this a few other times, the excuse that you ACCIDENTALLY hurt your wife’s feelings only works the first time.
After that? No matter how unintentional or non-malicious something was, if it’s a behavior she told you HURTS, and you didn’t take steps to avoid it, then you’re guilty of neglect.
She’s either insane or a liar, or she’s telling the truth and we owe her four freaking seconds to put the glass in the dishwasher.
I agree it’s not a chess match for most men.
But that doesn’t mean it’s not a crime to not do anything about it.
“After that? No matter how unintentional or non-malicious something was, if it’s a behavior she told you HURTS, and you didn’t take steps to avoid it, then you’re guilty of neglect.”
I disagree with this implicitly. It’s not fair to a husband, wife, child or anybody for that matter to be indirectly upset at someone for a behaviour that has nothing to do with what they are really mad about. That’s called being passive agressive. If you’re mad about something someone has done and continues to do then address THAT issue and not the one you imagine in your head it represents.
The problem I have with your post is that you fall on your sword, do a mea culpa and take the full blame for an outcome of a behaviour that you are only partially to responsible for. Should you have put the metaphorical empty glass in the diswasher instead of by the sink? Yeah, probably. But that doesn’t mean that your metaphorical wife gets a pass for projecting her own insecurities and misperceptions on a simple act of not properly putting away a piece of glassware.
I think you raise fair points. I would never argue that everything wives feel they want or need are gospel truths, and every time a man doesn’t behave as she prefers, he’s somehow in the wrong.
I have a few thoughts. They’re not entirely connected.
1. Wives get things wrong. You may have highlighted one of them. As someone who has no idea what it’s like to be female or a wife, I feel strongly it’s not my place to tell women how to behave. I’m of the opinion that a husband who treats his wife optimally will almost never run into these situations in the first place because she will not have lots of irrational fear and insecurity.
2. RE: treating wives optimally. I understand that dishes are left by sinks, and toilet seats are left up, and loaves of bread are forgotten at the supermarket, and pants are absent-mindedly left on the bed or wherever. And it’s irrational to me to interpret it as a personal affront, or as a deliberate act of disrespect. If it hurts the person we claim to love? And we don’t take steps to adjust behavior? I’m sorry, but that seems callous and petty to me. And frankly, it will end in break up or divorce. Every time.
3. Your point about how shitty and unfair passive-aggressive projecting is, is well taken. But more simply put, not unlike the dish by the sink, it’s not some grand conspiracy to fight with us or to play power grab games. It really just hurts, and then there’s an emotional reaction. I’m TOTALLY OKAY with refusing to be in a partnership with someone who exhibits those behaviors. I think it’s fair and reasonable to break up with someone who demonstrates unhealthy emotional control or whatever.
But, do it BEFORE YOU’RE MARRIED.
Marriage has to matter. Either that, or we need to get rid of it because it causes a shit ton of problems legally and logistically (and spiritually, if that’s part of your life).
I love strong boundaries. I think they make healthy relationships. But they need to be established and enforced during courtship and not retroactively argued for once Til Death Do Us Part vows were exchanged or children were created.
Afterward? Trying to rob our spouses of the right to “feel” as they feel does little more than guarantee a shitty marriage, and eventual divorce. Two things I’d like people to avoid.
…
Thank you for having this conversation.
I think you make excellent points. I don’t disagree with them. But I think maybe I disagree with when and how to apply them.
I tend to agree with you that if certain type of behaviour is a deal breaker for either a man or woman then it should be dealt with prior to marriage, but unfortunately things like passsive agressiveness — in both men and women — doesn’t really surface until a critical crisis highlights the behaviour. I was married for over 16 years, so I have much experience with the give and take of compromise and acceptance of the various pet peeves that people may have with their mate or spouse. There are definitely deal breakers that should be given much consideration in a relationship. I
t’s really the job of both parties the figure out what those values are, but in mind they are things such as trust, respect and honesty. An idiocentric behaviour such as leaving an empty glass by the sink or leaving the toilet seat up is NOT one of those IMO. And associating hidden meanings to unrelated behaviours and getting mad at a spouse for not ‘getting it’ why they are mad about said behaviour is akin to saying ‘I don’t like the way you think because it’s different to way I think. So instead of adapting to your way of thinking I’m going to get mad at you until you change to way I think.’
My now-ex was notorious for this type of behaviour. Many times she would blow up at me for something that I had no idea what. And when I would ask her she would just say ‘You know what you did and why I’m mad about it.’ It was like living in a psyhological minefield and now that I’m out of that nightmare I have vowed that I will never tolerate that type of behaviour again — EVER!
I’m sorry for the emotional abuse you suffered. Psychological minefields are not fun.
I think Matt makes some really good points however. I’m married to a wonderful man, but I accommodate some of his quirks, many of his quirks, because that’s what love compels me to do. Whether he should feel that way or whether or not what he feels is rational, is somewhat irrelevant. The point is to honor and respect what he does feel.
I think this can be challenging for many men because they dont always grasp how important it is for wives to feel as if they are being seen and heard. Not necessarily agreed with, but listened to as if we are actual people. Men tend to think they have to fix things, when in fact, “fixing it” can be as simple as acknowledging that glasses on the edge of the sink make her crazy.
By no means do I claim to have been a perfect husband nor am blame free of the failure of my marriage. There are plenty of things that I did to contribute to the failure and I take full responsibility for my actions, but I disagree emphatically that a ‘most’ marriages fail because a husband fails to give the marriage what it needs to be successful. Marriage is a partnership with mutual responsibilty and blame on both sides of the matrimonial isle. I take issue with the trendy self flagellation many men have taken on various blogs taking the bullet for their failed marriages when in reality both parties have blame in the dissolution of a marriage. To highlight the shortcomings of one side without acknowledging the infuence of the other is disingenuous and false.
Well, here’s the deal with blame. She or he who picks it up, holds all the power. To hand responsibility (blame) off to your spouse, is to hand your own power away. So if I perceive the condition of my own marriage as entirely my responsibility, and it’s failures as entirely my fault, than I’ve got the power to transform and make marriage what I want it to be.
Hubby taught me that long ago, by taking responsibility for things whether they were his fault or not. That example of what it truly means to lead, goes a long way towards softening your spouse’s heart.
Rather then self flagellation, it can actually be an act of empowerment. We cannot change other people, but we can change ourselves, and often changing ourselves, changes the whole story.
Powerfully important and true stuff there. (Also applies to work, team sports, friendships, family dynamics, and every other interpersonal relationship situation imaginable.)
I take no issue with any of that. I trust that you know exactly what you experienced and that you know what you did or didn’t do to contribute positively or negatively.
I, personally believe most (55 percent? 68 percent? 77 percent?) marriages ultimately end because the husband fails to give what needs given to make a marriage healthy and last. (I mean, the marriage ends and view it as being more his fault than hers.)
There MUST be some percentage of failed marriages that are mostly the result of the wife being shittier than the husband.
I’m sorry if you were in one of those.
Here’s what I think I know: For me, I look back and remember all these little moments of conflict. All these “little things” that seemed so inconsequential. And I would fight my ass off in an effort to “win” these little battles because, kind of like you’re saying here, I thought it was bullshit that these things that seemed so inconsequential to me were made out to be these big marriage problems. I thought it was foolish and petty.
I pride myself a pragmatist.
Post-marriage? My little son only being here half the time? The excruciating (and I do mean excruciating) pain of the last year of the broken marriage and first 18-ish months after separating? All the headaches and not-that-fun occasional loneliness? Combined with how selfish and superficial my motivations were for battling her on things like housework or whether I should go play poker?
I think my wrongs were “more wrong” than hers.
And I think millions of other marriages are exactly like mine. And I think many of those guys, their wives and their children will have better lives if they rethink the way they do things and talk to, and treat, one another.
So I write these stories.
I do fall on the sword. And I mostly try to do so without pointing fingers at her. I need to trust smart people to understand that accepting responsibility for their lot in life is always a better path to self-improvement that blaming others for their problems and never searching inward for answers.
According to lots of comments and emails I get, countless wives are smart enough to do that exact thing and rethink how they talk to their husbands.
I probably come off like I think I’m a knowitall much of the time (I promise I know how much I don’t know). But what I really want to be is someone who tells first-person stories so that once in a while, someone who can identify with it might have a better marriage afterward and not take the same path I did.
That’s always been the goal.
I appreciate you trying to keep things in their proper context and fairly assigning blame as you see it.
Nothing like the end of a marriage to teach us what we will and will not tolerate in the next chapter of our lives.
Wish you well, sir.
My spouse is notorious for never putting anything away. ever. It is placed on the nearest flat surface. Of course, it was an issue for me in trying to organize little children and having to clean up after an adult first. It created many battles and he never once changed to putting anything away. All it did was upset me and endanger our toddlers.
When our kids were little, he would leave out the tools he was using when we were doing renovations. On the floor or on the edge of a counter or on a diningroom table. It didn’t matter. He would leave it and walk away, not thinking about the consequences. There were several times I discovered a toddler just as they were about to do something dangerous with something their father had carelessly left out.
The crisis came one day as I came downstairs through the livingroom, stopped to pick up a couple of toys on my way into the kitchen and heard giggling and a cupboard door banging. Coming around the corner I witnessed my 18 month old reaching and stretching as far as possible, up on his little toes so he could reach the handle of the drywall saw that was left on the edge of the kitchen counter.
As it turned end over end and fell down like a hatchet onto my babies head, it nicked his ear and because he was hurt, he flinched to the side and the saw JUST missed his neck to cut into the material of his onesie. To say I was furious with his father was an understatement. However I never said another word about what he left on the counters or floors.
From that day forward and for the next 7 months, I threw anything he left out, into the backyard and eventually under a solid 5 feet of built up snow. When he asked where ‘xx’ was, I’d say “I didn’t use it, you did. Didn’t you put it away?” Over the winter he had to keep buying new tools to replace the ones he couldn’t find. He had to buy new glasses to replace the ones which were lost.
And in the spring, when the snow started to melt, he discovered I hadn’t wasted my time in cleaning up after him and he cleaned up the backyard of his missing items. He was no less angry than I was when he purposefully injured my child by his carelessness. Because in my eyes, that’s what he did. He purposely injured our child. Because he was too lazy, irresponsible, ignorant, selfish…to put things he used away.
Was I being passive aggressive or was I simply responding to an untenable situation, which I could not control or coerce my spouse into behaving in an appropriate manner? We all view situations with the shades of our own past, coloring them.
When I ‘hear’ Matt write, I hear the words I wish had come from my spouse. Words that would have made me love him. Respect him. Want him. There are many people who act like immature idiots in a marriage and that role is not always relegated to the man. Ultimately his blog is entirely about communication. The failure of which lead to many things which he has had to adjust to and as a result grow from.
It takes a remarkable amount of introspection and self awareness to discover that you are accountable and culpable for the demise of a relationship based on the hindsight you have, once it is over. It is a brutally painful process to be that honest with yourself. Not all people can do it and that’s why the end up repeating mistakes.
Spot on !!! Now can we clone you? LOL
But on a more serious note, I always communicated to my husband what it meant for me to “leave the dishes by the sink”. (I’m not sure why women think that you men can read our minds)……But for me, having disabilities makes it very hard for me to expand my energy into doing things (chores or what have you) so I expect some respect when it comes to helping me maintain those chores, etc. If I ask you to not do something, at least have the courtesy to not to do it WHEN YOU SAID YOU WEREN”T GOING TO DO IT. Action vs words is HUGE! That has been our biggest stress and unfortunately I developed Adrenal Fatigue from this stress (my body was already run down from all the car accident injuries so that didn’t help). I eat very well, have recently lost 100 pounds, I go to the gym, but meanwhile, this person (my hubby) was making me sick. He didn’t have that right! That for me was enough for me to want to leave him after all we have been through.
What we have recently discovered is that he is ADD and that is changing everything for the better actually. With ADD, he met almost all the criteria: short attention span, trouble listening carefully to directions, frequently misplaces things, easily distracted, poor listening skills, poor organization, trouble maintaining an organized work/life, easily overwhelmed by tasks of daily living, poor financial management, failure to see other’s needs, trouble with authority, rage outbursts, etc. Such a blessing in disguise really because I thought he was doing these things on purpose! Now I am learning NOT to take these things so personally and we are trying to find the proper tools to work around this.
Who would of known that a “disorder” was the cause of most of our issues? I certainly did not. Sure does make me wonder if it was the cause of my first marriage…..
Hi Jody. Thank you for reading and commenting.
I was married nine years.
I was divorced for two before being diagnosed with ADHD at 36 years old. I always thought it was a fake, made-up thing. Then I read a bunch of stuff (like hard-to-argue-with brain scans from neurologists and other medical experts) that convinced me otherwise.
I do sometimes wonder to what extent some of my poor habits consistent with ADD/ADHD behaviors contributed to her leaving.
I think it was a VERY large contributor. Awareness is a very, very, very, very, very, very, very big deal.
Attention issues aside, being AWARE of how our spouses think and feel — UNDERSTANDING wholly that it’s NOT the same way we think and feel — and really accepting that and respecting it, is, in my estimation, the biggest differentiator between couples who will make it and couples who won’t.
Near as I can tell, a man or woman’s inability or unwillingness to empathize with or respect their partner’s differences (without demanding wholesale change from them) seems to be the thing most likely to break down the relationship over time, and end in divorce.
It seems too simple to let that be the thing that ends so many families. Yet, I believe that’s exactly what’s doing it.
So, I’m just going to keep talking about it and be grateful for the few willing to listen.
Thanks for being part of the conversation.
I totally agree with you! Being aware and understanding, accepting, respecting… And don’t forget to put our gosh darn egos aside! This was my first time finding your site and I look forward to more of your posts (am now reading your past posts with huge interest). Keep it up!! and All my best!
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I’m going through a pretty crappy time in my marriage right now…I’m thinking of leaving.
In my case, it’s not the dishes in the sink–my husband is always good about stuff like that. He ‘respects’ me in that aspect.
Instead, we lack a very important emotional connection that I deeply desire. More so than I desire a clean sink. He doesn’t touch me in a way that makes me feel sexy or desired. When we kiss, it’s these annoying pecks. We don’t go on dates or visit new places. I feel like my wings have been clipped and I’m dying a little bit each day in a way.
Relationships are tough. I am not proud to say it, but because I felt so distant from my partner, I made a great connection with another man who thinks more like me–who sees the world more like I do and I’m really happy when we’re together. I wish I felt like that with my husband. I wish we had more in common and were more deeply connected to each other than we are.
I know he’s hurt and sad. I was hurt and sad for years. I showed it–we talked. I asked him to go to counseling (couples and individual) and he said yes, but never did any research on it. And so now we’re here…
Wishing you the best and sending you lots of self love as you transition to what’s next.
Thank you for reading, commenting and sharing a very personal story.
Your story isn’t particularly unique (and God knows I don’t intend that as an insult or slight of any kind). I just mean, I’ve come to learn that any time we feel voids, we are prone to fill them.
This happens in some form or fashion in virtually every relationship. If it’s not another person, it’s work, or a hobby, or an addiction, or a social life independent of their partner.
To be sure, “dishes by the sink” is a metaphor.
And making ones partner feel loved, desired and cherished, for the purposes of this writing, are totally “dishes.”
Thank you for saying nice things. I hope you and your husband find the healing and understanding necessary to get to wherever you guys want to be in the most-cooperative, least-painful way possible.
I pretty much gagged on your emo dork sensitve-guy breast-beating, dude. And I’m a feminist-sympathizing male, for god’s sake. Oh, your premise is sound enough, mutual respect and trying to understand your spouse’s needs, but your dish-by-the-sink example only left me thinking you need badly to grow a pair, and that you don’t realize how narrow of an escape you made from a harridan that would bail on you over such an inconsequential matter.
Well, gee whiz. Glad you didn’t gag too hard. Thanks for all the helpful feedback. Maybe some day I’ll grow up and be really tough and ballsy, and have killer relationships like yours.
I’m not trying to do a drive-by ass-kicking. You make some valid points about an important topic and your article is well written. I just disagree with your choice of examples…it makes your ex sound like the Wife from Hell and you like a whiny victim. If you were trying to make it sting by painting an irritating picture, you succeeded, but I don’t feel it enhances your argument.
I know I’m not the most gifted and engaging writer in the world and that most people–not just you–don’t read every word, but I don’t believe someone with your vocabulary and education level could read this and actually conclude that I believe my divorce was, literally, the result of dishes being left by the sink.
This post isn’t about me. This post is about men not correlating the little arguments they deem inconsequential with the fundamental breakdown of their relationship.
I hate to sound like such a cocky shithead, but you might want to read it again through the prism of “maybe emo dork guy is right about this” because I’m totally right about this, and these metaphorical dish situations are why we have a marriage failure rate exceeding 50 percent.
I wish it wasn’t true. I wish it was something more complicated.
But it is true. And it’s not complicated.
We want to win fights more than we want to apologize for our unwillingness to bend a little on things our partners tell us hurts them, because we think they’re sensitive and overly critical since we don’t feel as they do at all.
We all think how we feel and experience life is “the way,” and don’t respect people who feel and experience things differently. It just doesn’t make sense to us.
When we let our wives be different than us, and we respect those differences even when we don’t understand and even when they inconvenience us, we all divorce infinitely less often than when we think “well, fuck you then, you naggy shrew.”
Accept that she’s different. Accept that you don’t understand why she thinks and feels differently. Accept that she doesn’t understand why you think and feel differently. Respect those differences and try not to be cocks to one another.
Life is better for all involved when this happens. Especially little kids whose lives get shattered and unsteady when their guardians and primary educators behave like assholes.
I think the culture of marriage in 2016 is in frighteningly bad shape. And I feel obligated to repeat what I know to be true and be happy with the small percentage of people who believe it, make better choices, and don’t ultimately break up their families only to figure out years later with a new partner that this dish-by-the-sink stuff is ALWAYS present, and feel shame and regret for all their childishness and lack of accountability they displayed, all while looking at Instagram photos of their kids on vacation with their new stepdad.
(prime example of people either commenting having not experienced what you have written about OR have habitually made the same mistake over and over again failing to grasp that their failure to grasp a simple premise is the causal effect of why the relationship(s) failed in the first place. I believe without having express knowledge of, Matts’ Balls have grown exponentially since his divorce.
Well, that was a mic drop if ever I saw one. Nicely put responses, Matt.
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As you get older, busier and more tired… A glass by the sink matters less and less. Anyone who pulls the “if you knew me and loved me, I wouldn’t have to tell you.” That’s called a silent contract. How can you live up to it? Agree about consideration and doing small things to enhance each other’s day/lives. Overall, nice twist. Communication, consideration, vulnerability, adventuring together… All good things!
I don’t doubt it. We all gain wisdom and perspective with age and experience.
The glass by the sink is more symbolic than anything. It’s just another item on the “Things Good Men Do That Can Make Them Bad Husbands” list I just made up in my head.
And most things on that list disappear once the lightbulb goes on.
Some men will never agree because they’re as convinced their “way” is as right as I believe mine is.
Some men will never agree because they’re not intellectually capable of it.
And some, when presented with the right information in the right way, will think “Whoa. That makes sense. And since I like being married to my wife, I’m going to do some things I didn’t want to do because making her feel good and not getting divorced seems WAY better than the alternative.”
I don’t care whether men treat their wives good to selfishly stay married and see their kids all the time, or because ACTIVELY loving and respecting their partner is the right thing to do.
Either way works for me.
I just want to see two totally intelligent and sane adults who–without coercion, made a conscious choice to marry one another and live together forever–NOT have it all fall apart because they like a few basic psychological and biological lessons about humanity just like I did.
Thanks for writing, Kimberly.
A friend says his wife left him over a freezer. He had a unique pet that required whole dead animals for food. He had a freezer in the garage just for this, but occasionally, he’d put the animals in the kitchen freezer, because “Meh, it’s the same, I’ll move them later”.
To her it wasn’t the same. He says if he’d known how much it meant to her, he’d have walked the 15 feet to the garage, every time. It’s a little easier for people to relate to a wife being upset about opening the freezer to make dinner & seeing whole, dead animals in there, but it’s the exact same thing as the glass on the counter. Or the seat up. Or or or.
It *feels like* it’s about respect, to the person it’s upsetting.
Living with people is HARD. It’s hard to live with your parents, it’s hard to live with a spouse, it’s hard to live with kids. It’s just hard. It takes work. That doesn’t mean it’s bad, because work isn’t bad. But there’s merit to acknowledging that it’s HARD.
Lastly, I really gained a lot of inner peace when I started looking at these differences between my husband & I as “cultural differences”. I’d never ever be pissed off at someone for eating with chopsticks instead of forks. Or not celebrating a holiday the same way I do. I wouldn’t INTERNALIZE IT the way I internalize the little differences between my husband & I. We’ve been raised differently. We’re different people. We see the world differently. We are each carrying different weight. I piss him off in 100 ways. He upsets me in 100 different ways. We make every effort to bring it down to say, 10 ways, but hey. We make an effort to be less annoying AND ALSO an effort to be less annoyed.
I never feel as stupid as when I’m screaming about glasses or laundry or him making himself something to eat without asking me if I want something, too. Who the hell cares, ya know?
Thanks for this. Thanks for getting the message out there, because most people don’t hear this until it’s too late.
I like how wise, thoughtful and measured this is.
Things can be conceptually simple to understand, and incredibly difficult and complicated to execute.
The infinite number of ways in which people can affect one another makes sharing space and resources with them (even when we love them above all things) a super-hard thing to do.
It’s not complicated to run a marathon.
You just run 26.2 miles. That’s it! That’s all you do. You do ONE activity for a very specific distance, and then you’ve completed a marathon.
EASY!!!!!
But then you’re me who probably can’t run a 5K without heart palpatations, and you try to do this super-simple thing and epically fail and/or die.
Because it’s actually a very difficult thing to do. And everyone who has successfully done so (I’m not one of them) knew it was hard, and took a bunch of steps, and trained and trained and trained and trained to be able to do it.
And so it is with marriage.
People think once it stops feeling easy and romantic that they made a bad partner choice and everything starts to break.
For some reason, NO ONE seems to understand that it WILL get difficult no matter who we’re with.
We can collapse or withdraw or quit the race.
Or we can figure out what needs to be done to successfully finish.
Thanks for the great comment.
Oh & hey. I want to take a minute to throw this idea into the comments. I’d never want to be the husband. You guys carry some really heavy things on your shoulders.
I think back to when we went to a single income, with two kids. There were times when I grocery shopped for the week on $40. The weight of making that work was on me. That’s pretty heavy, figuring out how to feed 4 people on $40 a week. Once, we had $18 until payday. What do you even do with $18?
But I really didn’t carry the weight of being “less of a man” because I wasn’t providing more for my family. Society never once put that kind of weight on me. I had the weight of making it work, but once I left the grocery store, that was done. My husband was the one awake at night, mentally moving every penny, mentally questioning every decision that led us there, mentally weighing what was more vital, mentally worrying he wasn’t a good enough man, father or husband.
I trusted in him & in us as a unit. I knew we’d make it & I knew we’d move on to bigger, better things. I don’t know who he had to trust in to pay the bills. That shit’s heavy.
I don’t like how our current media portrays men as overgrown children. You’re not children. Sure, men have weaknesses, we all do. You’re carrying the weight of a family on your shoulders and that doesn’t get acknowledged & celebrated enough. Nah, we’ll just mock you on sitcoms for being fat & lazy & dumb.
Thank you for this post.
Thank you! I am a woman with a husband in sever depression because he lost his business through no fault of his own… Our society does not make it ok for him, and he is tortured by his “failure”. we have been through so much in the last 21 years, this is the lowest I have ever seen him, and it is all over the provider role!
Thank you, Eryn. I agree. Men are amazing at MANY things, and it would be really nice if women would focus on those and not on the bad stuff, because when we focus on positives and show appreciation for them, it’s a lot easier to talk about the areas that need improvement.
But to be sure, I do not believe men demonstrate proficiency at marriage and relationships. I think there is a “best way” to do most things. And it seems obvious to me that men are NOT doing things even close to “best” in their marriages.
There are several reasons why.
Men kick ass at lots of stuff. They strategize and execute, and often succeed. For reasons I don’t understand, men don’t approach their marriages and families that way.
They don’t sit around and think: “What are the things I can do to become an elite husband and father? How might I show my sons and daughters the path to marital greatness?”
Some people might roll their eyes at that.
But none of them will have felt the agony of every divorcee who didn’t want their marriage to end. It’s SOUL-CRUSHING and totally life-altering.
So, anyone who has been through it, or theoretically values their marriage should get it: Why not take men’s relentless drive for success in business and sports and hobbies and competitive challenges and apply those same skills and amount of energy to marriages, which matter WAY more than all those other things?
#ThingsIWonderAbout
Reblogged this on Just Add Tea and commented:
The main reason for my old fights with the Boy…
Marriage becomes a lot easier when we get over “you” and “me” and look at life as “we”. Selfishness (on one side or both) is the underlying cause of marital trouble. Took us a few years to learn that, but our marriage is much richer and resilient because of it.
I’m happy to hear that. Still-married people are very much the minority when it comes to this blog’s readers and commenters.
Husband gives more than he takes to his wife.
Wife gives more than she takes to her husband.
Both people benefit from the intimacy-enhancing power of unselfishness, and get to feel good about all the “getting” they receive from their partner. They mutually lift one another up. It lasts forever.
I think it’s a great thing everyone interested in marriage should be striving for.
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I’m headed for divorce. It’s not a glass its thousands of dollars gambled away, 50,000!owed to the irs because of not doing taxes. My husband thinks I’m the problem because I’ve begged him not to do this so our family can have a future. I would take the glass by the sink any day but you know the saying every mind is a different world. Funny part is my husbands name is also Matt.
There aren’t a lot of divorce stories out there I can’t relate to, but you may have just introduced me to one.
I’m speechless.
I’m really big on advocating people to stick it out and work on ways to improve their relationships. With something like this, I refrain from saying so.
I’m sorry this is happening to you, and I wish there was more than a not-helpful apology in a blog comment I could do to help.
Best wishes to you and your family.
When I found the quote “You must live in such a way that the person you love feels free” it was a moment of enormous realization to me. Trying to live this type of love has changed my relationship for the better. Both of us treat eachother with respect and realize we are seperate individuals with seperate views. This sets up healthy boundaries that has made such a difference in what is important in our relationship. I just don’t think love has to be so complex as many people think it is.
Oops, the quote is “You must LOVE in such a way that the person you love feels free” – Tich Naht Hanh
I guess live and love are a little interchangeable here 🙂
Agreed. 🙂 Interchangable.
I like it. I’m glad you used the word “boundaries.” Lots of people don’t know what that means, and don’t realize how not having them is sending them down the painful and frustratnig path of divorce.
Boundaries. Strong ones. Supplemented by kindness. Not wimpyness. Fair, just, kindness.
Changes the world.
Thank you for reading and commenting.
As someone who isn’t divorced but still going through the same thing in my relationship it was nice to read this. I shared it with my husband, and I think it helped bridge the conversation he and I have been having over and over again. It really helped to see both sides of the issue laid out.
Thank you.
Hi Sara. Awesome to read that. Thank you so much for reading it and saying so.
Most of the things I write get affirmed by ex-wives who divorced guys just like me, or get challenged by formerly married or still-married guys who don’t want to change because they don’t think they should have to.
It’s really gratifying to read about an active relationships where something I wrote could be a conversation starter and maybe help someone see things a little differently.
Perspective. Seems like such a teeny, tiny little thing. But it’s very much not.
Thank you again for the note!
What a great article! You have eloquently explained what I have been trying to communicate to my husband. It’s not about the towels on the floor, the glass by the sink, or the lawn we (wives) have been asking for weeks to have mowed. It’s about how we feel everytime we see that glass, towel or Un-mowed loan. It’s about how what we feel for our partners, changes when we are confronted by a re-occurring issue. It’s about the unspoken message left on the sink, floor or yard.
We know that respect is important to our husbands and we want to give it. But it’s hard to do sometimes when we are confronted with evidence (glass, towel, loan etc) that we are not important, and that things that hurt or upset us are not worthy of attention. The glass says we are not worthy of consideration and our feelings are trivial and not respected. This realization starts to alienate us from our partners.
When we start to feel like we don’t have a partner but another child, respect and feeling of security, starts to fade quickly. But through this, we are desperately hoping we will be proved wrong, and are looking for any other “evidence” that is contrary to what we are seeing and feeling. Because we do want to, love, respect and honour our husbands.
Crushed it. You succintly summed it up perfectly.
The problem, as I see it, lies with all the guys who hear what you’re saying, but tell you that you’re wrong.
He loves and respects you, he thinks. So you saying you feel like he doesn’t is challenging his integrity. Especially over something he perceives as petty.
For him: Mowing the lawn < Peaceful marriage
You elevating the unmowed lawn to a problem so big that it's threatening the marriage feels INSANE and UPSETTING to a man who doesn't agree that an unmowed lawn warrants your feelings.
He doesn't feel that way about stuff. So you shouldn't either, he reasons.
He's "right." So, you're "wrong," and he doesn't have to change, ever.
Men have a VERY hard time with this. I sure did.
We have to remove our perceptions and experiences from the entire conversation, and simply accept that the things you say you feel are true.
We need to believe you.
When we BELIEVE that we are legitimately hurting you, we stop doing things to hurt you, because we never want you to feel hurt.
It's somehow amazingly simple and insanely complicated all at the same time.
Thank you for the nice comment.
This is really skirting around a more central issue of each partner having expectations for the other which are seldom spoken about and even less frequently open for negotiation. A partner should not automatically have to adopt the standards of the more-tidy or less-tidy member of the relationship. Tidiness does not break cleanly across sex and gender lines, either.
Your blog seems to boil down to simply change your habits and expectations to please your partner.
I better path might be to discuss and negotiate expectations with your partner and if you both agree on the goal, then change your habits to achieve that goal. The difference is that this is now your goal, too, not one imposed on you from some partner’s authority.
If your tidiness levels and goals are incompatible with those of your partner, perhaps you were too hasty in your partnership. Perhaps you are both happier now apart than you ever would have been together.
This is so true, and it applies both ways. I think what it comes down to is knowing that you are sharing living space, and everyone has those little thing that grate on the nerves. Knowing and respecting your partner enough to make those little stressors go away is critical to long-term success. My husband tries not to leave a pile of crumpled receipts on his nightstand and I look the other way regarding his messy desk. It’s give and take, and knowing that some things are important to the other person, even if it doesn’t make a lick of sense to you.
This was so on point I had to go check the byline to make sure you weren’t my ex-husband having a divine realization.
Thank you for this article. You’ve hit the nail on the head about why so many men are blindsided by a “sudden desire” from their wife for a divorce. They didn’t see the hurt and anger building because the things she was upset about seemed so trivial. I have an ex (duh) who refused to help with the ickier housework — toilets, tubs, floors, etc. His argument was that he didn’t like doing it. My response that “neither did I” didn’t seem to click with him. If I didn’t do it, it didn’t get done. But each time I relented and did all the “icky” jobs the resentment built. His not liking to do it was more important to him than sharing in the icky work so neither of us had to do it all.
Women (in general) do care more about the house than men. There are exceptions, of course, but the majority care more. So the glass by the sink, the refusal to clean a toilet, whatever, really does feel like a personal attack, and a clear representation (in our minds) of the lack of respect and value from our partner.
My husband of 27 years gets it. He mops all the floors, vacuums, and scoops the litter boxes. I scrub the bathrooms and kitchen and dust all the furniture. We both have icky jobs. And we both share in all the jobs. And we’re both pretty content and happy.
I’m glad this story had a happy ending. 27 years is awesome. And indicative of learning from experience.
I hope I can do the same.
This article is written from the perspective that men fail in regards to doing “meaningless” tasks about what a woman finds to be important to her. However, it fails to acknowledge that women also can and do fail in this way. As a stay at home father who does most of the housework including laundry, dishes, etc, I am often disappointed to find when my significant other piles dishes in the sink or leaves laundry laying everywhere waiting for me to walk the entire house and put things where they go. Replacing lids to toothpaste, cosmetics, hanging coats, putting toilet paper on the roll, the list goes on and on. It is aggravating and disappointing. And although I communicate about how disrespected it makes me feel or stresses me out, it hasn’t changed. I have basically accepted it for the betterment of our relationship and because we have children together. Also because there are other things she does well to contribute to the relationship. I often wonder if I’m making the right decision rather than trying to continue to force her to see my perspective. I just want to point out that it isn’t always men who fail in this regard. Women are just as guilty.
Fair point, sir.
I believe VERY strongly in the science of genetic gender differences and believe they’re ignored or overlooked at the peril of most marriages.
However, this “dishes by the sink” thing (which is really mostly a metaphor) is likely much more cultural than a byproduct of the presence or absence of Y chromosomes.
I write with both hyperbole and sweeping generalizations. I promise I’m aware that there are few absolutes, and that ALL men (even those in more traditional roles) are not negligent, selfish, irresponsible or lack understanding of the needs of their wives/girlfriends.
But make no mistake: MOST of the time, this is dead on, and MOST of the shitty divorce rate in this country is a byproduct of this truth.
I’ve been writing about this stuff for nearly three years. It’s been affirmed by a trillion (hyperbole!) married people, and punctuated by this particular post which is getting shared far and wide on Facebook by every single wife who’s feeling “Yes, dammit! This! This is what I’ve been talking about!”
It makes sense that, in your case, you feel the exact same way. Walking a mile in their shoes, so to speak.
I apologize (seriously) for being so man- and husband-focused, but this is what I ALWAYS do.
I won’t pretend to understand how wives and women feel. Because I have no idea what it’s like to be them. Only me.
So I write for “guys like me.”
We can do better. We MUST do better. Because the state of marriage is getting worse, not better, and as the population grows, all the shittiness gets magnified and multiplied.
This is how I try to help.
Thanks for reading.
Great insight. I think men feel similarly about lack of respect from their wives in other areas. Women just express it differently (in general), men express their actual frustration with what is not being done and equate it with disrespecting their desires (whether it be a clean house, laundry, back up when disciplining a child, or asking for help on a project important to them) where women address just the item that they equate to disrespect (not the actual feelings of disrespect).
Men need to better understand how their wife’s FEEL, but in turn I think woman can improve on how their husbands THINK. Communication works both ways.
Great article and something all husbands should read and DISCUSS with their wives.
I feel that this is very true but as women there are times that we allow the fears that we have get in the way of our relationships. My father hates folding and putting away his socks, undershirts, and underwear. They have sat in a laundry basket for as long as I can remember. The go from there to on his body, to the hamper, the wash, to that basket, never once seeing the drawer they are supposed to be in when not in use. This drove my mother nuts for years. And for all the reasons listed in this piece. I remember a lot of fights over this one stupid basket of laundry. I mean knock down drag out fights. My mother put all the rest of his laundry away and just needed him to do this one thing and he refused. He hates folding things. He would rather do something else with the 10mins it would take to fold things. She didn’t feel respected. He didn’t understand why it bothered her so much. He would eventually put them away when she would nag him enough. Then one magical day my mother had and epiphany. He wasn’t doing this because he didn’t respect her. He was just lazy. The house was his house too. She could deal with one laundry basket of clothes in an otherwise spotless house (my mother is a huge neat freak). She realized this fight was about her fears. Her insecurities. My dad did and does a lot to prove he loves her, so why was this basket showing the opposite. It was because of her own irrationality. Her own fears and emotions getting the best of her. She realized she was actually creating the issue and she let it go. My dad still has it sitting full in the corner of their room. She knows my dad loves and respects her. Those little things that irritate her to no end that he won’t do, do not mean that he doesn’t respect her anymore. My mom told me this story and about how she overcame this patch in her marriage. She told me, as women we let how we feel dictate things sometimes and when we don’t take the time to rationalize things and make concessions to our partners the relationship is doomed for failure. We have a tendency to put everything on our partners, male and otherwise. We need to realized, that in an otherwise healthy relationship, those little things don’t mean he doesn’t respect us. Our chokehold on these little things may actually mean that we don’t respect that our partners a human and flawed. If he does most of what is asked, helps with most chores, the kids and has a tendency to leave a glass by the sink or laundry in a basket, let it go. He loves you. He respects you. He just human. I’m sure you do things he can’t stand. But does he nag you about it? Probably not. Because you’re human.
Great points and nice insights into the woman’s mind and feelings. Much of what you said is true and also linked with a woman’s insecurities and need for validation. We want proof, daily, that you love us. (There, I said it, I am a woman!) I too, have had these same demands from my partner(s) over the years. But thankfully, I have grown up! I learned a few hard lessons from failed relationships way before I ever got married.
One more point I would like to add, though someone mentioned it above in a positive light (when I believe it is much more ominous!) is competition. Competition is NOT good in the relationship no matter how much it fuels the passion or attractiveness! It is my opinion instead that it is the TEAM mentality which benefits everyone. When you take the “win” out of every situation and option and instead balance it on the group gaining, you are both focused on getting it ALL done! It isn’t about that one glass, but about being more efficient in getting the chores done together. You do feel valued, appreciated, respected when you can see the other person taking those steps to make your life (and theirs) easier. When you work together, it becomes really HARD to find something to nag about. You see the trash is full and you say to yourself, as soon as I throw this waste away after lunch, I am going to take it out. But while you are still eating, you see him empty and take out the trash. Now, you look around thinking, that was really awesome, HOW CAN I HELP HIM? You both are always looking for ways to make THEIR lives better, easier, being more kind to each other… isn’t that what love really is? Marriage only lasts when you are willing to value each other. If you are only worried about your own happiness, you (and your marriage) will eventually fail. No one can go on forever without any sustenance. But when She puts His needs first, and He puts Her needs first, no one is ever NOT getting their needs met. You take care of each other. That is a marriage. That is how you make it successful. No one wins… you both do!
“No one wins… you both do!”
A point SORELY missed by all the battling of the sexes nonsense being thrown around in these comments.
OF COURSE men shouldn’t do whatever their wives want like a bunch of man-slave patsies.
When wives feel loved and secure on account of things like dishes being reliable put in the dishwasher, they DON’T “nag” or “bitch” or “demand” or whatever.
That’s the big argument from the Man crowd: “If you put the glass away, she’ll just find a new thing to complain about!,” totally missing the point that all of their wives’ behaviors they wish would go away WOULD go way if they’d just understand what we’re talking about right here.
You can lead a horse to water, and all that.
Thank you for reading and commenting.
Due to certain issues, and having learned that men communicate differently, I work at helping my husband understand the whys of my requests. Using the glass as an example:
Me: *after asking him a dozen times not to do it* Dearest? Why do you keep leaving the glass by the sink when I asked you not to?
Him: *explanation given*
Me: I see…
At this point I can either let the matter go if minor, offer a compromise if medium (could you put it on the other side so there’s less risk of knocking it over and breaking it?) or explain why I would be happier if he puts the damn glass in the dishwasher.
I’ve only had to go on to say “see, when you ignore my requests it feels like you’re silently saying ‘FUCK your feelings, I’ll do what I want’,” four or five times in eight years of marriage.
So far, so good. Now if he would just TELL me things instead of letting resentment fester, I could work on my own shortcomings…
Very good article. I explain it like this, If you care for your partner, care for the things they care about. Don’t belittle their (to you) inane passion for collecting troll dolls or call them stupid for crying over a movie. Don’t sigh over your partner gushing about baseball or car racing. You only need to care about them and that whatever it is that to them, should be met with consideration from you.
I have an example: my ex husband liked the toilet paper hung s certain way on the roll. He didn’t make demands, just mentioned it once in conversation. From that day on I hung it the way he liked because I knew it mattered to him. I couldn’t care less which way it hung and thought it was silly to think about something like that, but it mattered to him. He never told me to or asked me to, I choose to do it the way he liked because I cared for him.
If you cherish the person you are with it should make you feel good to see them not stressing over small stuff.
“If you care for your partner, care for the things they care about.”
Exactly that.
But I don’t even think we need to go that far. Because, as I wrote, I CAN’T care about the glass by the sink. I can’t care about what happens on some TV show she likes that I don’t.
(I realize this is semantics, by the way…) But if we can just CARE that she cares, everything gets better overnight.
Here’s a thing. I don’t care. But she does. I DO care about her. So I’m going to respect this thing.
It IS really challenging to do sometimes.
But I’m having trouble determining why the concept seems so difficult for people to grasp.
Thanks for the comment.
Alpha Fucks Beta Bucks. You dodged a bullet
Right, right. Red pills and all that shit.
I’ve got bad news.
Red pill swallowers die alone, probably with herpes.
You’re in your mid-20s, right? And you think Rollo and Mystery are big studs who have it all figured out?
They have SOME things figured out.
But certainly not how to have someone there to keep you company and go to the doctor’s office with you when you’re 75 with liver spots and ugly toe nails.
Do you have any idea what your life expectancy is?
9 out of 10 adults get married. This is a fact. Trying to play the I’m a Man and You’re a Stupid Woman Out to Get Me card GUARANTEES 8 out of 10 of those will fail. With the anomaly being some boundary-less doormat wife I couldn’t stand to be around for 30 seconds.
Your way is perfectly fine for having lots of sex in your 20s and 30s, and maybe even 40s.
It’s also the way that makes marriages fail even MORE than they already do.
Good luck in 40 years, kid. Jerking the limp herpy stick to virtual reality porn and wondering what the hell you just invested your best years believing in with no discernible return on investment.
But I do wish you well.
This is very insightful and eloquent. As you said, should be training material pre-marriage, or at the very least post-divorce. I doubt most people who divorce spend the time trying to figure out what went wrong or how they could have done things differently. I found the comments interesting too…someone said it was a power struggle – I see it more of a balance – most days you both have good moments and you both have bad moments. As long as you both are still trying, they should come out about equal or hopefully with good outweighing the bad. It’s when the “bad” starts outweighing the good that we run into trouble. And the bad is different for everyone – for some it’s the glass, for some it’s the laundry, but it’s when it’s the glass AND the laundry AND the whatever all the time that things probably will run into trouble.
Oh and every single person should read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus by John Gray, explains a lot about how the other gender thinks
With all due respect to Dr. Gray, this is the book that helped me get it for the first time, and the one I most recommend to anyone who feels like their marriage is falling apart and are desperately searching for ways to make it better:
http://www.amazon.com/Improve-Marriage-Without-Talking-About/dp/0767923189/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453551461&sr=1-1&keywords=how+to+improve+your+marriage+without+talking+about+it
THIS was the best part of the whole article, IMO:
~~But I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of.
I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.
I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time.
Men Can Do Things
Men invented heavy machines that can fly in the air reliably and safely. Men proved the heliocentric model of the solar system, establishing that the Earth orbits the Sun. Men design and build skyscrapers, and take hearts and other human organs from dead people and replace the corresponding failing organs inside of living people, and then those people stay alive afterward. Which is insane.
Men are totally good at stuff.
Men are perfectly capable of doing a lot of these things our wives complain about. What we are not good at is being psychic, or accurately predicting how our wives might feel about any given thing because male and female emotional responses tend to differ pretty dramatically.~~
I used to have a husband that didn’t have any desire to be the leader in our family. The sad thing is, I deliberately chose my ex-husband because I had control issues at that time in my life, (he was six years younger than I) and I wanted, AND NEEDED to lead! But when I matured in the faith and Yah began to change me, and I asked him to lead, he did not want to or even know how. I grew to disrespect him, which really wasn’t fair.
My husband now? He wants to be the leader in our home, in every area, especially spiritually (he’s six years older than I am). I’m thrilled! His nature is to be kind, patient, gentle, diplomatic, etc., so right now we’re developing strategies on helping him to be more of a bossy butt. LOL Every day, he’s TELLING ME to do three things, minimum. It goes against everything in his nature to tell me to do anything, but he’s doing it! He knows it’s important, and it’s a growth process, but I hope one day he can order me around and not think twice. I know I don’t need to worry about him getting carried away with his He-Man role- we already have a great deal of respect, love, trust and devotion in place. And honestly, this is a turn-on! I want my husband in control and leading our home! It’s masculine and sexy to have a man know what he wants, and then tells you what he wants done and how. Am I into any kind of kink or weird stuff? HECK NO! LOL People who know me IRL will tell you I’m a strong personality. I’m not weak! I just enjoy having a man I can respect for a change! Carnal, selfish, rebellious feminists who want control and to lead are the weak ones! Domineering, selfish, unfeeling, harsh and hateful men are weak, too, as well as the limp-wristed, soft, weak, docile, unmotivated, lazy, and unambitious mama’s boys! Ick!
Here’s to strong men and women! May we bring glory to Yah, walking in unity of step, Yah ordained order and shalom!
This is a great article. But I think for most people (or at least for me) it doesn’t (didn’t) boil down to a single issue, like the cleaning of dishes, but a whole pattern of behaviors that collectively communicate immaturity and entitlement. It was the dishes, the laundry, the child care, the making of meals, the timeliness, the filing of the mail, the paying of the bills, and all kinds of other things that responsible adults do. I think that’s what you meant about managing your time and taking responsibility for things. Those 4 seconds of putting the dish away for your partner, time and time again, add up.
If it were just one thing, like “my partner is really bad about remembering to put his socks in the laundry after taking them off,” then I could work together with him on that, or learn to live with it, in the spirit of compromise. But when it’s a million things, you eventually decide this won’t work.
For me, it wasn’t so much about cleanliness, per se, as it was about inequitable division of labor and time. My partner would spend 30 minutes on dishes, think it was enough, then go off and have fun, while I spent at least 2 hours every night cleaning things up (after an 8-hour work day). That he didn’t even notice that I was working while he was playing was infuriating to me. That he made lame excuses when I said, “hey, I’m working and you’re playing, this isn’t fair” was infuriating to me. That I had to tell him the above sentence every f-ing night just got to be too much.
Matt,
Someone posted this on Facebook and I’ve been engrossed reading it and the comments since. I made it 26 years before I couldn’t take it anymore. Yes, it’s a huge feeling of disrespect, but possibly more so for those of us who’s Love Language is Acts of Service. My sister doesn’t let these things bother her in her marriage much because she has Gift Giving as her primary, and he’s certainly got that covered!
Yes, I know it is just metaphor, but for those who read this and think, “But I did all that stuff! She was the one who was messy (or whatever)” it really comes down to loving people the way they need to be loved.. not the way we want to love them.
Just my 2 cents worth. Thank you, thank you for this post. I am excited to read more of your writings! =)
My wife sent me this article after she got done reading it(even stated she’s not implying anything just thought it was an interesting read).
We both discussed it and feel we have to respectfully disagree with the main point or what we feel is the main point, that even if you don’t understand you must bend to the requests of your SO. You must do what they ask no matter what, even if you don’t understand. We cannot get behind this way of thinking, because we both feel understanding is the MOST important part of our relationship. I used to leave wet towels after showering on the bed, I no longer do because she complained a couple 100 times and 1 day I just asked why. She stated she doesn’t want the towel to cause mildew on the bed, so I no longer leave the towel on the bed because I understand her reasoning behind it. However, there is no reasoning behind your Ex-wife’s want for you to not put the glass outside the side of the sink, you have very valid reasons behind not wanting to put it in the sink, the only one necessary, that you could use it later. That’s a perfectly valid reason on why you do it, why dirty a 2nd glass when I can reuse this one in 30 minutes, or an hour? It’s all about give and take and she was not giving any in this situation. She wasn’t listening to your reasoning which is perfectly valid so of course her non valid reasoning is not going to get any credit, I don’t find it to be your fault that she supported a non-valid reason. Why do you have to bend to her, when she could just as easily bend to you? We feel you had every right to argue and fight for your stance and if she wanted to bring it to a marital standpoint then we are honestly happy to see that you two have separated as it seems to be for the better.
That is NOT what the article says at all. I’d be curious which of you brought that up first. But if something trivial matters a lot to your partner, why not just do it? It costs you nothing but a few seconds. She may not even know why the glass bothers her so much. Maybe she was spanked frequently for doing so. Who knows? What is wrong with simply making your partner feel better when the way to do that is so very simple?
NO!
Anyone can justify their actions with a million reasons and they are all to cover the fact that the person is being lazy and does not care. It may be fine not to care if you live on your own but it is disrespectful if you are living with someone else. If your partner is OCD that is a different matter (so long as you make an effort). Clear your plate from the table, wash up immediately, put your clothes somewhere approximating the hamper…or someone else has to do it!
I am an untidy by nature female but I know I must clean up behind myself.
I think if you don’t have a problem cleaning up after yourself, or if you are a messy person it’s not a problem (because living in filth isn’t a problem to you)… When you love someone and they have a problem with a messy you help the person with their problem (even though you’re the one that’s messy) because you love them. If you’re not willing to help people with their problems then you shouldn’t be in a relationship. People also need to accept their partners as they are and not try to change them but lift them up constantly. No one is perfect. Everyone has different pet peeves. We need to learn to let things go and pick our battles and how to effectively communicate and how to listen… how to really listen to each other.
You may hear the words but do you hear the intention? Where they are coming from? Chances are they just love you and have really good intentions behind their words and actions…
If you read through this at all it’s not about that fucking one instance. I doubt your wife and you talked about this or she’d have pointed that out because most married women have to deal with obtuse, selfish husbands who expect women to think like men, “wait” for her to start doing that, hurt/frustrate her in the process, and also want to have sex. Wrong. You’re not fooling anyone. If you want to have an interesting sex life (and have a happy marriage overall) you have to stop lying to yourself that you’re the only one that gets what you want and grow the fuck up. There’s nothing wrong with putting a damn dish in the dishwasher, or whatever. Stop being lazy. Stop being a waste of breath. Don’t make your wife, or any person of any gender, have to tell you not to leave your gross fucking wet towel on the bed, or help keep your own house clean, your mind clear, your dick faithful, etc. Lazy asshole. Hopefully you soon learn to be a mature adult who doesn’t treat the world like it owes him something before she leaves you alone with your Vaseline and meaningless existence.
I refuse to fuel the fire of your rudeness. This is my opinionand it’s unfathomable that you’d sit here and attack me and calling me a liar. Please check yourself before talking so poorly about someone else. Also my wife said fuck off.
Hey Donovan. This is my fault, and I’m sorry. While I’m no fan of censorship, I’m also not a fan of treating one another like dicks.
I’m super-grateful you and your wife read this, discussed it, and then you took time out of your life to contribute to the bigger conversation.
I don’t necessarily agree with some of it, as you certainly don’t with me, but I promise I care about what you have to say.
There won’t be any more name-calling, and I’m sorry I allowed it to happen in the first place.
Comments are coming in at a rate I’ve never seen before, and I thoughtlessly approved one I shouldn’t have. I’m going to let it ride so there is context for this conversation.
But, one more time, I’m sorry I let personal attacks slip through. The only person I allow personal attacks on around here is me.
Thanks again for contributing.
It’s a very flattering and humbling experience to see so many people talking about their relationships because of this post.
Matt. I completely respect you. And it even took me awhile to find my comment because there are so many. I understand your blog post. We even agree to a lot posted however of course every relationship is different. Your reasonings and choices above would just never work between me and my wife. My wife loves reading your blog and sends me the ones she really enjoys from time to time. Please I encourage you never to accept that attacks on you as that’s just disgusting behavior. My wife and I want to say thank you so much for commenting and making us feel justified on how we choose to feel. We look forward to reading your future posts.
Awesome of you to say so. Thank you very much.
This is NOT about just the “one glass by the sink.” If we are talking about dishes, there’s usually a glass left somewhere else — say in the bedroom. There’s clothes left on the floor instead of in the hamper. The trash isn’t taken out, etc.
Now look at it as a metaphor (the bigger picture). Your relationship is this “house” with the glass in the kitchen, the glass in the bedroom, the clothes on the floor and stinky trash not being dealt with. It’s doomed to fail if it stays this way.
From experience I know people are usually clean or not so clean. More than likely, if there’s one glass in the kitchen, then there’s also some trash lying around the house (or relationship) that isn’t being dealt with – all over a matter of pride.
I’ll leave a cup on the counter to reuse it, yes but when I leave for work, it at least goes in the sink. I don’t know what the pets do when I’m not around and I certainly don’t want to drink after them!
My husband has said to me more than once “it’s just not as important to me as it is to you.” He understands the reason why, but it’s just not important to him (whatever is the issue at the time). That is hurtful to me. He’s saying “I know you care about this but I don’t.” I think that’s the message of this article. You may not understand why or agree that it is important but if it’s a simple thing, what’s wrong with just doing it?
Maybe another way to think about it: you spent an 8 hour day (or more) doing whatever work you do. You worked hard. It’s just the way you need it to be to keep everything flowing along and productive. Now, someone comes along and undoes your work. They have some reason or other why they feel they can undo your work. It may even be a valid reason TO THEM. But it doesn’t alter the fact that you are the one who put in all that effort and this person, thinking solely about his or her need, feels that your effort shouldn’t interfere with how he prefers it done. And by not taking that effort into consideration, you are showing incredible disregard for that person.
However, if the example set forth here is what you wish to dwell on, offer a compromise, put the glass in the dishwasher and, should you still want to use it, pull it back out. How’s that work for you?
I think making your spouse justify all of their feelings and needs in a way that you understand is really shallow and unloving. Emotions aren’t always rational, but they can be overwhelming. I do not understand why my husband loves building model airplanes. To me, it is the most boring activity in the universe. I don’t understand why he would want to spend our money on this hobby or why I have to give up space in our home to accommodate it. But you know what? It clearly is important to him, so we do spend the money and use the space. That’s what love is. My husband and I both have phobias that the other doesn’t understand. I can tell him all day long that his chances of dying in a car crash are much higher than his chances of dying in a plane crash. But when the plane takes off you bet I’m holding his hand and treating him kindly. Of course you don’t have to bend to EVERYTHING your spouse wants but what I usually see in situations like the one above is one partner doing all the bending and the other hiding behind their “logic” in order to avoid compromising a thing. It gets tiring. And it kills love.
It wasn’t about the dishes by the sink. As the author of this article as clearly stated, it was the fact that his wife didn’t feel respected and valued. I agree it’s definitely a give and receive both ways in a relationship for sure but maybe she did give? We don’t know it doesn’t say much about what annoyed him about things she did that he felt disrespected about either.
I’d just like to say I hear reasoning like his (for the empty glass) everyday and it’s often not as reasonable as you think. I’ve asked why the milk has been left out, response is ‘I’m still using it’, it’s been sat on the side for 3 days, and he doesn’t even realise! I think the glass is a metaphor for all those niggling things which when repetedly done shows a lack of respect for those you live with. I did notice that the article gives no reason as to why the wife was so upset about the glass, I guess he never asked so there could have been a perfectly reasonable reason as to why.
I can see what the two long term married guys are saying but I also see and have felt what you wrote about. I realized with men, crying or yelling and telling them you don’t feel respected doesn’t get you as far as telling them with out emotional intensity. I don’t know what it is but if you cry or yell they seem to actually hear you less. I think you are either being wrote off as a crazy irrational woman or they jump to just saying I’m sorry without actually listening. Being rational vs manipulative sets up for both parties actually getting what they want. Often this manipulation seems to be subconscious, as the person (often woman) doesn’t realize that her real feeling are to be respected. In the same regard, I see what those two gentle men are arguing. That these things will happen in all relationships and you can’t let this shit be what ends it. It means you both need to work on communication and mindfulness. Period. If the spouse who is not giving as much respect/appreciation could understand and empethize they would try some more methods to make spouse #2 feel that way (the dish may still never get put away but people show love and appreciation different ways). If they don’t, then they are a special breed of asshole. My husband still leaves his crap about, the difference is he no longer says “it doesn’t bother me why does it you?” He says “I’m sorry, you’re right”, and then deals with it st some point throught the day (if I don’t feel like doing it for him I pile it together and place it on his desk). Or if I just do it for him anyways, I don’t resent it anymore but I do tell him that I did it, he thanks me, and we move on. We have had some big arguments in out 10 years but we always take time to actually talk about it and the deeper emotions at play.
I agree with you that tears backfire most of the time. I learnt that my husband is very invested in our relationship and when I complain or cry, he feels like a failure and shuts down. Somebody said they wrote emails when they’re upset – I can see why that would work. As for the glass mattering or not, we had to go to marriage therapy a few years back to talk about silly things that mattered a great deal, but it wasn’t the same things for me as for him. That wanting respect and expecting him to show he cared by not purposefully doing stuff he knew annoyed me was a big one for me, while he was saying he was showing he cared all the time but he thought I never noticed. Communication, people!!! Once we had a breakthrough on how the other’s brain worked (aka our individual perspectives), nothing was easier than just choosing to be loving. Must be working; we’ve been married 21 years! I hope a lot of people read this man’s story before they get to the point of no-return. Marriage isn’t a lump-sum investment; you need to keep the account active for it to yield returns!!!
Oh gods yes. My husband has learned that the calmer and quieter I get when I’m talking to him, the angrier I am. It’s a learned behavior for me, but it gets MUCH better results in terms of him actually listening to what I’m saying.
Good article! I always saw my husbands ‘glass’ as meaning ‘you can do this for me’. It made me resentful even though I tried to view putting things away as an act of love for my family.
YES! Me too. Always. Same with laundry on the floor, facial hair in the bathroom sink, dishes on the living room table etc. Trying hard to keep the same loving attitude.
Agree Karen. I have the same issue that even when I specifically ask him to do little chores when he’s off and I’m at work – like just load the dishwasher sometime during the day or just tidy up the living room a bit that day or something – and he doesn’t do it and then acts put out that he has to live in a messy house for however many years… well that’s damn disrespectful to me and it makes me so angry because it shows me what he thinks my role is in the relationship. We just had a big fight about it a few days ago actually.
Reblogged this on twopowers1 and commented:
In any relationship, respect is the name of the game.
Dude.
These lines here:
“But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.”
Basically sum up everything that I’m feeling right now, that’s what I’ve been trying to convey to someone but they don’t seem to understand it this way. This is it.
Thanks for putting it into words!
YES! The ex-husband was a horrible slob, and a very self-centered, immature person. My current wonderful, long-term guy is also very messy, but he is so generous, very thoughtful, always doing special “little things” for me and my dogs. Funny how it’s now a pleasure to tidy up after him, it no longer enrages me to do it. I do see him make the effort to be “neater” and it slays me every time. On the flip side, we challenge each other: he encourages me to do things just outside my comfort zone, and vice versa. i.e.: He makes me eat more / new vegetables, I nudge him to bill his clients at full value, instead of always less. In a word..? Partnership.
I see myself often in the “this is just not a big deal” category described here. So what happens when your spouse has not just one thing but she has a couple dozen things and if you actually tried to keep up with them all you wouldn’t have any time for yourself? Yet, she does say, if I don’t do them all that it hurts her and that I don’t respect her if I don’t do them. That you’ve told her she’s asking too much for them ALL to be done all the time. Yet, she doesn’t stop doing things that upset you – like shouting at the kids. Then she sends you this blog? .. If it was just one thing, one “pet peeve”, easy. But, 20-25?
Have you ever thought that your spouse doesn’t have any time to herself? Perhaps these 20-25 things means that she is constantly on the go, stressed and therefore taking it out on everyone around her. Why is your free time more important than hers? Has she ever complained that looking after the needs of you and your children ALL the time is too much to ask and therefore she just doesn’t do it? I’m not saying you’re in the wrong but perhaps it’s something you should think about, perhaps she’s just asking for a bit of help and someone to share the workload, as said above its a partnership.
So I do most of the work, I do kids pick up. I cook during the week and when she cooks at the weekend its basic pasta or she orders out. I am as busy as she is (hence my handle). She sits and plays around on her phone. A lot. She also recently has become addicted to PlayStation, which I thought was going to be more of a problem with the kids. She rages in a very bullying way when she hear any criticism. Any. Don’t judge me without knowing anything.
I promise I trust you to know what applies to you and what doesn’t. Thanks for being a husband and father who shows up big for his family. I hope can find a way to communicate you and your family’s needs effectively with your wife, and that she’ll be receptive to it.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Who does the couple of dozen things that you are too “busy” to do, because you are doing things that you want to do (time for yourself)? I’m guessing, it’s her, adding to her work. Maybe she shouts at the kids because she’s stressed out, because you don’t help out. Do you look after your own kids? I mean, not just the fun stuff, but the boring, routine stuff? How much time does your wife have “for herself”? Frankly, you sound like a jerk.
See my reply above. Don’t judge without knowing anything, please.
Reblogged this on Shades of Grace and commented:
Love this. So right!
Now that’s seeing with more than your eyes. Love this. You may have just tapped into the female brain for a brief moment. Are you scared yet?
I can’t imagine being that hung up on a glass… but that’s because my husband and I have about the same notions of housekeeping. (Neither of us is particularly tidy.) But we have gone around on some issues where I felt unappreciated, and he didn’t really understand why. To be sure, I pick my battles! So does he. But after almost 36 years married, we still can annoy each other.
When I can’t engage verbally without being overly emotional, I resort to email. He does the same. Friends think we’re crazy, but having to write what you want to say is a powerful filter of things you might not want to verbalize because they’re not helpful. Somehow a written message is better remembered than a spoken one. And you can discuss the meat of the situation without going off on “you always” or “you never” tangents.
Very well written! As a new wife I thoroughly enjoyed your article and found it very insightful
I know it’s too little too late in your case, but here’s an article that sums up what goes on in a woman’s head when she’s about to leave
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome
The tl;dr If she stops nagging and stops talking to you, everything is NOT OKAY.
Yeah, I had shut down, and didn’t realize it.
I wonder if my husband (or even myself) realized how close to divorce I was!!
I didn’t feel heard or appreciated in my marriage. In many ways I was “lucky”. My husband ended up dying of a massive heart attack. The divorce would most likely been bitter and ugly. We had 4 kids together.
I’ve learned SO much about communication, conflict resolution, and taking a stand for myself. Some great advice in the comments here!!
Reblogged this on smp19671 and commented:
Wow! Powerful.
I read half of this and balked, but then I went back and finished it.
Brilliant!!
You said everything that I have previously thought. Although I’m the boyfriend, there are still little things I don’t think matter, but she thinks it’s the world. I subsequently get irritated because in the scheme of things what we are arguing about really doesn’t matter. In reality, she’s attributed a whole lot more meaning to the subject than I have.
Love the article,It is very insightful. I am a female and I sometimes leave my cup by the sink as well. If I do this it is because I plan on using the cup again and I always tell people DON’T TOUCH MY CUP lmao. I definitely agree with you partner. She did not marry you to become your mother, so her having to tell you to do somethings when it probably was common sense to do is kind of annoying. Sometimes females get annoyed when a man always tell them “If you just tell me what to do, then I will do it.” We females feel as though after a certain time in a relationship, feel as though why must we always tell you guys what to do when you technically already know what needs to be done. That’s why women are always comparing men to children, just as children we are constantly telling them what to do over and over in order for them to get it, but as a grown man, you should already know.
People often think marriage is 50/50 give and take, but what marriage really is about is both giving 100%. Both going out of their way to put the other first. That requires knowing what your spouse needs though, which requires open communication. It’s also important to understand that everyone has a love language. It sounds like your ex wife’s love language is acts of service. For me the glass doesn’t mean much, but not taking 15 minutes a day to really talk to me without distractions or interuptions would make me feel the way your ex did because my love language is quality time. I would highly recommend reading 5 Love Languages and Four Seasons of Marriage both by Gary Chapman, as well as The Love Dare. Great, great advice and very eye opening.
“People often think marriage is 50/50 give and take, but what marriage really is about is both giving 100%. ”
*DING DING DING DING DING!* WE HAVE A WINNER
Good article. People say they ‘may’ use the glass later, however, if they don’t will they remember to go back and put the glass in the dishwasher? You have a dishwasher, dirtying up another glass later, as long as you put it in the dishwasher should be no big deal. Putting the laundry in the hamper rather than near it. One extra step may not seem a big deal but one extra step adds up over time. Why would you want your so to even think they may have to be responsible for those extra steps because you don’t care enough to do it yourself?
Guys, we don’t want to be your mother any more than you want us to be your mother. Be an adult and take care of your stuff. Afterall, is she doing your laundry or loading the majority of dishes in the dishwasher or doing the other necessary things that go with running a house? Isn’t that enough of their being your mother? Take care of your responsibilities.
There is much more wrong here than the glass by the sink. Period. End.
I can’t tell if you’re saying this to the people who don’t understand the point of the glass story or if you’re one of them…
Someone get this person a nobel peace prize.
Amen.
This is the most perfect explanation I have ever heard. I hope it helps my husband understand that this is exactly how I feel sometimes about things as trivial as putting the toilet seat down.
You get it. Great writing too.
I loved reading this. I related to a lot of what was said about it not being about the glass but about the principles behind it. I work and my husband doesn’t so I feel disrespected when I come home to dishes after working 8+ hours to support us when he was home all day. He does do things when I ask him to but the fact that I have to ask when he has so much free time is frustrating. I feel that I got some insight into what’s going on in his mind and why he seems to be “blind” to these things that seem painfully obvious to me.
Wow Matt this was such a validating read for me. Thankyou for speaking from the other side of the fence so to speak. My partner and I have been together for 6 years, lived together for 4. He has very bad issues with clutter and dirty laundry, and I feel like he just doesn’t really have much to say to me as a person, friend, partner whatever. He is very simple and short, not rude just simple and short no depth no deep conversations EVER nothing like that. We don’t go out on dates, he doesn’t get me gifts anymore for my birthday or Christmas (not to sound entitled, I am not materialistic but the thought of just a homemade card would be sweeter than nothing on your birthday). I have read these comments and learned a lot and although I identify with a LOT of other comments on here.
See my problem is, I ask nicely, and he makes these promises to keep up on these little things he could do to show that he respects me, but NEVER does them. It is getting so bad that we are almost eemingly on repeat, going through the same questions/arguments/promise breaking DAILY. After a while I wonder, am I being a doormat, should I just leave? I demonstrate respect, I try to be nice and not naggy, why doesn’t it ever pay off? Why does he lie every day and never EVER make improvements??
Also, the fact that men perceive sex as currency just doesn’t make enough sense to me yet either..
He does not seem to want it or have a need for it at all unless I ask (which being a woman, doesn’t make you feel too sexy when you’re the only one who wants to instigate physical love). I know he isn’t having an affair or even thinking of it, he’s a GREAT guy, buy I can’t help but wonder. Am I in a relationship that will never grow from this? At what point am I a fool for trying ever more? All this talk of practice and “training” for BOTH roles, but I feel like I am embarrassing myself, slowly lowering my standards. Meanwhile, being lied to daily. I know I am being lied to, I tell him “you say this every time!! why doesn’t anything change?”
He always seems so genuine once I get really upset (cry or have a periodic meltdown) but aside from that….he is all talk.
TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE EMOTIONALLY STUCK IN A SAD REPEATETIVE TWILIGHT ZONE OF FALSE HOPE, don’t tolerate the lies after the first time. They will never stop, it is relentless how much a man can take advantage…IF YOU LET HIM.
id love to hear any responses or opinions, advice. Thankyou for the read!
Oh, honey, he’s obviously not interested in meeting you halfway here. You’re not happy, so why stay? (I am saying this metaphorically, I am all too aware of the many reasons we can’t just pack up and leave. But you can check out mentally/emotionally, if you need to.) *hugs*
It sounds like you’re stuck in a distancer-pursuer relationship pattern, my friend. The best thing you can do is show how much you appreciate yourself by finding activities you always wanted to do but were afraid to try…Want to learn about wine? Take that wine tasting class you always wanted to take. Want to get in shape? Join a gym and attend daily. Want to learn more about what makes you tick? Go to therapy. Want to try on a new profession? Enroll in a college class. Invite your friends to join you in these activities, or try them on your own. One of two things will happen if you do these things for you. Either your man will stand up and take notice that you are becoming the person you always wanted to be and it will inspire him to seek out you, this new and exciting person, OR you will see that he has no plan to break out of his comfort zone and develop the skills to maintain a relationship with a fabulous woman. And you will make the decision to leave. Either way, you will break out of YOUR comfort zone, and who knows, maybe you will gain some new perspective on what you need in a partner and how you need to go about communicating those needs to your partner. It’s a win-win situation!
Run as fast as you can I was stuck in a relationship like this for 25 years. He finally found a 20 year old and left. but you just described my ex-husband to a t.
i’m not even asking him to put it in the dishwasher. just put it in the sink and run water in it so gunk isn’t cemented to the bottom. the front passenger tire was low on my car, he stood in the driveway on 2 separate occasions and pointed it out. we have a fucking air compressor in our garage. do you think he put air in my tire? no. one of my co-workers filled up his personal air tank that he carries in his truck and aired my tire up in the parking lot at work. FUCK! and he doesn’t understand why I’m not aggressively initiating sex with him every night……I’m exhausted. I feel disrespected and unloved. when i tell him how i feel about this stuff, do you think i get an I’m sorry? no. I get “well, you shouldn’t feel that way. it’s not my intention to make you feel that way” and before anyone calls me a whiner, i work 40 hours a week on the same job for 19 years. he doesn’t have to tell me to sweep and mop, to do the dishes, to cook dinner, do the laundry, make the bed, clean the bathrooms or any of the other household chores i agreed to when we moved in together (we are now married). the deal was, i take care of the inside and he takes care of the outside, which includes vehicle maintenance and yard work. i hold up my end of the bargain and even help him with his stuff. if he’s working on cars, I’ll run back and forth to the garage fetching tools. I’ll move lawn furniture and the grandkids’ toys when he’s mowing……AND YOU CAN’T PUT A LOUSY PLATE IN THE SINK AND RUN WATER IN IT? yeah, I wish i had a dollar for every time I’ve considered leaving him…..one day, I’m not gonna think about it, I’m just gonna do it.
Fascinating blog… It makes me wonder about other things. I know this story is just a brief glimpse into your life and your relationship that you had with your wife. What I am curious about is… how often did you tell her you loved her? I mean how many times a day did you say “I love you.” “You are my princess.” “You are my heart.”? I don’t ask these things to make you sad, just to try to get insight on the habits that made up the core of your relationship. To say that your wife left you because you left dishes by the sink makes me think that something else was absent. Something very much like glue… or concrete…. love. Thank you for your time in writing this. Iron sharpens iron… and often times men are just dull edged when it comes to the needs of women.
Sorry, Matt.
Early on my wife and I established a house rule: If it matters to you, you do it.
Therefore I’ve got things like changing the oil in the car, the garbage, cleaning the floors, and lots of the cooking.
I’m sorry. If you still want to make it work, I have heard of people getting back together…
Best of luck.
That’s called: establishing and enforcing boundaries and communicating them.
That’s called: being good at marriage.
The dish thing is more metaphorical than literal. I’m sure it was the thing that annoyed her least.
It represents what I believe to be a consistent pattern of men failing their marriages because, when you boil it all down, he didn’t understand or believe the words coming out of her mouth.
I don’t care about the assholes who don’t value their marriages.
I care about the good men who accidentally destroy them through simple, accidental ignorance and neglect.
This is just one example (and I think every married person should be able to think of several examples that have nothing to do with dishes or chores) of a wife asking something from her husband and him failing or refusing to give it to her–not just because he’s a selfish asshole, but because when they speak to one another and describe things, neither of them know what the hell the other is talking about.
This does not apply to everyone. It simply applies to most.
Thank you very much for reading and being part of the conversation.
You’re welcome.
Mm. That’s fine if the actions are independent, and if there’s some kind of reasonable balance between them.
Some examples. I’m an excellent cook (I’m also a decent carpenter, a reasonable fill-in plumber, electrician, etc – oh, and I garden, and I like things reasonably uncluttered and am good at keeping them so. This isn’t a gender thing, and I have a lot of skills. Note, I’m not even touching my professional skills, at least not directly.) So much so that the majority of people I’ve lived with have been highly motivated to encourage me to cook for everyone. Some do this very well – say, in housemate situations back in college, by buying the groceries, managing dishes, maybe setting the table if we’re doing the sit down meal thing. Others – like, say, my ex-husband – would promise a lot to get me to cook, and then would take equally elaborate means of not following through.
Eventually I stopped cooking for him. But this was late in the demise of our relationship, and while it was the best solution that I could do on my own, I can’t say it was a good one. He liked my cooking. I like cooking, I like feeding people (and having them enjoy my food) and I like to show love through cooking. We might have worked out some other arrangement, but he didn’t like doing any work around the house or grounds.
Similarly, it may have mattered to me more that the living room not be littered with dirty clothes, but I don’t find that adequate reason that I should have been picking up his laundry. (Just to be clear, we were both software engineers at the time.)
“If it matters to you, you do it,” sounds great, until it turns into one person doing everything because the other person doesn’t care, or perhaps prefers to coast. …which, admittedly, it the reason I left. Or part of the reason, that, and that he broke pretty much every agreement he ever made with me.
I’m sorry you were treated that way. Our word, our promise, should matter to us. It reflects our hearts and our will. I’m sorry.
“If it matters to you, you do it” only works for couples who have a pretty even set of things that matter to them. Also, some chores aren’t about what matters to someone as much as what NEEDS to be done. Such as: paying the bills, washing dishes (eventually you will run out and have nothing to eat off of), buying groceries, caring for children, caring for pets, etc. You can’t simply say, “Well, changing the baby’s diaper matters more to you than me so you have to do it!” When one person ends up doing the vast majority of essential things (as women often do) and then gets stuck doing all the non-essential things too, under the argument of “well you’re the one who cares about it,” then yeah, it’s a recipe for divorce.
Right. The tone and attitude behind the statement is the hinge on which the whole thing hangs. My wife and I were very young and didn’t really know what mattered to us yet. It was more like as we discovered what we felt mattered we found the energy to be the person to take on the task we cared about. We did have to have quite a few sit down discussion meetings. But because we weren’t already established with a pattern of “This is how I do things” it was an easier slogan to adopt. We still use it. And when things feel unbalanced or unfair we talk it through. Lots of stuff neither of us cared about at first. Now we care about some things too much. Dumping everything on one person based on gender ain’t cool. It’s damaging.
I love this! I feel like this is talking about my marriage. I couldn’t get my husband to understand why it made me so mad. I guess I didn’t fully understand why it made be frustrated but after reading this it has opened my eyes. It isn’t his dirty boots and socks in the middle of the floor, it is the fact that I spent all day cleaning and he comes in and doesn’t acknowledge that I did anything. Again great post!!!!
Awe… I love this. So heart felt. So honest. So familiar for soooo many of us. Thank you for sharing 🙂 I am sharing this on my fb page for others 🙂
I really liked this! My husband and sometimes have these little debates and it’s always interesting to read the male perspective. Communication and respect is something I see missing in a lot of husbands or boyfriends today. This is especially true when it comes to children. It’s like you said, “Caring about her = taking care of kid-related things so she can just chill out for a little bit and not worry about anything.”
Did you always leave the glass by the sink?
Just sometimes. It’s totally a metaphor.
Stunning post, great story! I’ve just started my own blog too. It’s all about books and a chance for us all to read together, take a look at https://darrensharpewrites.wordpress.com and follow if you find it interesting! Many MANY more to come.
I have been stubbornly trying to ask my husband to keep my kitchen table in a condition where I can use it for eating at a moment’s notice. It will not happen. Consequently, my twenty-three other behaviors he wishes I did, will never change either. Oh, we have talked about these. We have fought about these. We are irritated that these things happen, but we are not divorcing.
I am not going to stop caring about my kitchen table, but I love and care about all the million other things my husband does do right that perhaps I can pick up after my husband on this one instance.
What am I saying? I am saying that I believe that we all go through these things and ideas in a relationship where we think we have not done enough for the other person, or they think you have not done enough and if you cared about them enough and if you respected them, you would change. And sometimes we get bogged down by the little irritants to see the big picture, to see the person we fell in love with, the committed partner we decided to welcome in our lives back when smartphones ran on smoke signals.
Now, having been divorced once, and refusing to do that the second time, communicating and coming to some mutual understanding of our, sometimes chaotic, co-habitation realities is the key at least for me.
I should probably put my glass in the sink, now that I think about it.
You touched a nerve here. My husband leaves his cereal dish in the sink every single morning. In the sink that is inches away fro the dishwasher. I’ve put it in the dishwasher for almost 25 years. I’ve asked him about it for perhaps the past 5 years. Lately I’m leaving it in the sink to see if he EVER moves it to the dishwasher. Apparently will not happen. It’s making me nuts.
Hands down this is the most powerful post I have read all day! Love this male perspective on an age old issue with modern women. I’m so glad you saw past the glass but not at the expense of the marriage. My husband will drink a beer and leave the cap and sometimes the bottle on the counter just two steps away from the recycle bin! Use to drive me insane!!! Like really dude?? Am I your freakin maid after working all day just as hard as you and then start my second shift with our son!!! He won’t stop though and I am not divorcing him. Love him way to much and vested to much time, so it’s a battle I choose not to fight. We have learned to compliment and balance each other out really well. Lesson learned for you and her. I am an optimistic person and always root for reconciliation. Who knows what the future may hold. Excellent post! ? Chanel
Reblogged this on Prayyior's God Talk.
Excellent article! Excellent!
I say this as a man who has never been married. Still single (and ok with it) at 56. It’s very simple. I’ve noticed that couples who figure out their mutual respect issues tend to stay married. Other things do come between couples, but the main thing, the thing that really keeps people together is mutual respect, and actions based on the same. For what it’s worth.
This cup / glass in the sink situation was probably the tip of the something much bigger. I would agree that if one resists doing something simple is to give a reason…unless the other person is a neat freak. Which my partner is but for whatever reason, he does tolerate some of my messiness. I am responsible for creating my own mess, that for certain. But he has generously done some tidying of my stuff.
If a guy already doesn’t share cooking, household chores and child care several times per week, it most definitely will make a wife feel like she’s the maid. Unless, she leaves certain things lying around that should be organized.
I think she should be glad the glass made it to the kitchen. Some of us men aren’t the best at picking up after ourselves. But most of us men do what we are good at. For example, today I dug a 28″ deep trench from the power pole to the house for running a circuit. Personally, I don’t put any dishes in the dishwasher. I would be insulted if I were asked to. However, when my wife worked outside the house, I took turns doing the dishes.
“Personally, I don’t put any dishes in the dishwasher. I would be insulted if I were asked to.”
Why on earth would you feel insulted?
I definitely saw the repercussions of living with a male who really didn’t get what it meant to ‘just put the glass in the sink’. I had to take a step back and assess what my role was in the whole situation; Am I being unreasonable? Should I just put the glass in there myself? Is it better to just not mention anything?
You hit the nail on the head when you said; “Telling a man something that doesn’t make sense to him once, or a million times, doesn’t make him “know” something.”
Needless to say, things now are a lot better than before & it just comes down to the basic principle; ‘Actions speak louder than words’.
Thank you for such a great article!!
Wow. This is pure genius. I’m speechless.
So when you ask your husband to put away his clothes that have sat in a hamper for months, or ask for some help around the house (esp when he invites his parents over or friends over last minute) how is it that I should respond when he tells me “why can’t you do that, it only takes a few minutes? Why do you need someone to help with cleaning the cleaning house when there are mom’s with 5 or 6 kids that can do it all with out help?” Or my favorite that he tells me “you don’t work, you get to stay home!” O my freakin gawd. I only homeschool, do all the bedtime routine, discipline, pay all the bills, do all the laundry, all the dishes, all the errands, running kids to their activities, cook & plan all the meals, … shall I continue?.?!
My eye is twitching & I’m having heart palpatations just thinking of all this. Oh. & he gets mad at me b/c I don’t have “time for him”.
I want to buy you a drink *hug*
It wasn’t the dishes… it was a lack of communication. She never explained it, he never explained it. She didn’t listen when he honestly told her it didn’t matter to him and he never listened when she told him the clutter really bothered her. They both took a side and stubbornly refused to budge.
This reminds me of my marriage in ways that make me both angry and sad.
It’s a little hard for me to relate to just how gendered the casting of this is. When I was married, we both worked – in fact, I put down the down payment on the house, and had the stable job with the good insurance and the hefty stock options while my ex bounced from start-up to start-up. I never signed on to be in charge of the dishes, in fact, if anything, the opposite. I did expect to be doing an outsized share of the cooking – but mostly because I happen to be a particularly good cook. I’m also generally handy and mechanically adept – I was always the person repairing the sink, or up on the roof redoing the flashing around the skylight. My ex, it turned out, did not like any work around the house. Then he started putting down my career, and trying to get me to quit and be a housewife. (Ten years together – had he never met me? And I doubt getting me to quit my job would have magically made me less threatening.)
It’s entirely true true that I thought I was getting a partner. And we’d specifically discussed and agreed on a division of labor that wasn’t along traditional gender lines. But I also have no problem speaking up if something is bothering me. And I was pretty great at articulating how things felt to me (clearly and calmly – sometimes he said he didn’t think I was really upset, since I wasn’t shouting and crying. Of course, when I tried shouting and crying – not as an act, I was pretty heartsick and desperate by that point – he didn’t respond any better.)
…and none of it mattered.
There’s too much to go in to, and not much point. Eventually, the whole situation eroded away all my caring. I stuck with him through a number of mental health issues, and when, after he was stable, he was still an asshole, I left. Reading this, where it sounds like the relationships kind of dissolved by stumbling and misstep, I just wince.
If it were me (and I’m a woman) I’d put the glass in a specific place in the dishwasher and re-use it. I know that it’s my glass.
Reblogged this on evey.bumbaca.
I am finding myself in a situation like this. It is hard to stay in a relationship if you have no respect for your partner. You lose respect for them when they ignore your feelings and do not pay attention to details. I have been married for less than a year and find myself losing respect for my husband because he is not observant of things. For example, I gave him a grocery list as he was going to town and said he would stop by the store. He never turned the paper over to look at the back, thereby not getting 1/2 of the items. What 64 year old man is not smart enough to look on both sides of a piece of paper? I am having a hard time with this. The other 2 relationships in my life have been with men smarter than I am. I find it increasingly more difficult to stay.
I feel like I should show this to my husband because it so effectively puts into words, so many of the things I feel about our marriage… but at the same time, I don’t know if I *can* without it turning into an argument that won’t solve any of the problems.
YOU JUST EXPLAINED IT PERFECTLY.
I’m reallyy impressed goood job! Also, I really hope you and your wife didn’t get divorced, you seem like a nice fellow :/
It’s a division of labor issue for me. My husband and I both work jobs at about the same financial level and title, yet I end up with a majority of the household duties. He’s good about doing laundry but that’s it. And some days it pisses me off to come home from work and see not one glass but a whole pile of dirty dishes on the counter. He works from home and could have loaded them in the dishwasher at any point during the day.
So I come in and load dishes and start making dinner while he has done nothing to help me. I’ve discussed this with him repeatedly and nothing ever changes. Is it worth giving up over a decade of marriage? No.
Oh my. This was my marriage, and my divorce, and my current dysfunctional relationship. Thank you for understanding, even if it’s just cathartic, it eases some of my pain and fear of relationships. Thank you. Saving. Following. Loving.
This is so true it nearly made me cry.
It’s not about the glass.
WOW. I am so happy I stumbled on this post. After months of my husband just not “getting it” i feel like i can share this very well worded post with him that explains EXACTLY how i feel. Wonderfully written. Thank you – reblogging!
I showed this to my husband tonight – I absolutely loved it.
Reblogged this on giddy & gorgeous and commented:
This! This is EXACTLY IT! Ladies, send this link to your men, MEN! Listen up, this is good stuff (written by a dude!)
This moved me nearly to tears. So simple, eloquent, and insightful and wonderful to hear from a male’s voice. From a women’s perspective, I’d add that some of the biggest pain comes from feeling that he’s turned you into someone you don’t recognize; a nagging, upset, wife that you don’t particularly like and never wanted to be.
This moved me nearly to tears. So simple, eloquent, and insightful and wonderful to hear from a male’s voice. From a women’s perspective, I’d add that some of the biggest pain comes from feeling that he’s turned you into someone you don’t recognize; a nagging, upset, wife that you don’t particularly like and never wanted to be.
There are simply no words to express how deeply this has touched me. To know that I am not the only one to have experienced this. Every. Single. Word.
Ditto.
Perfectly said, I also had tears in my eyes. It took me 3 husbands and 25 years until I finally learned how to “speak husband” – wish I had read this sooner!
So why be that person? Seriously-other people can’t change YOU and you can’t change other people! You have control over YOUR REACTION to others or a situation only. Choose not to be a nagging wife and be his friend instead. Things don’t need to be perfect.
While it’s a good point that a husband should respect his wife’s opinions and wishes…that’s marriage….it goes both ways. A wife that freaks out over a glass is not being loving herself.
Sir, you have missed the point entirely…..
Please re-read this excellent article Roy. Your wife will thank you.
Nah I agree with him. It goes both ways. She feels disrespected because he’s not meeting her most trivial desires, then the same can be said inversely; she’s not respecting him by ignoring the most trivial details that he does not want to do and harping on him for it
I’m a wife and I agree with Indigo, she had issues as well. I do like the article and it does explain a lot of things from guys view, but read between the lines-the wife had self esteem issues. I should know because I did too. Before marriage my self stem was crushed by a situation. After I worked on improving myself, I can say this wife of his had self esteem issues.
I don’t think he did miss the point. I’ve learned to not take things like glasses left out personally. It was a mental shift toward more peace and partnership. when I see a glass left out, I 1) see it as evidence of a living presence of someone I love and 2) put the glass away myself if it’s time to do dishes, leave it if it’s not, so I will be where he left it, like he likes. I *used* to think the glass meant love, power, respect, etc. but it doesn’t – it’s a glass. I can’t tell you how much more peace is in our home as a result.
It’s about taking responsibility for my own feelings. The only times the glass makes me feel unloved & unheard is when I’m not caring for myself, and feeling stressed. *It’s not about the glass, or my husband.*
I think losing people I love made that shift easier. Being very close to someone who lost her 9-year-old daughter helped me see what’s really, really important. If my husband were to die right now, I would miss that freaking glass *so much*, like I’d miss the kids’ shoes in the doorway, or the spoons under the couch if, God forbid, something happened to them.
Jesus, just leave the glass – enjoy your time together. And if a glass on a counter leads to less enjoyment of the moment for you, put it away or do the inner work so you can accept what is, rather than fight it or take it personally.
When I am away for a long time from my fiancee and miss him so bad, I also miss all the things that annoy me when we are together. But we still want to solve those annoying things, and we want to do it together. So no, it’s not the issue of the wife “not being loving herself”.
I think Karen has it right here. The other point I would make is that putting the glass away doesn’t actually solve the problem. As the post so clearly states, it isn’t really about the glass – it is about feeling loved and respected. So if a partner doesn’t feel loved and respected, but the glasses all get put away, then what? It’ll be about something else: underwear on the floor, cheerios in the sink, trim on the house, toilet paper installed incorrectly, bed not made correctly, lights not turned off, etc…
What is the man supposed to do in this situation? There will be no rest, there will always be something not done correctly. So what inevitably happens is that the man surrenders to the honey-do list hoping that perhaps by doing everything that is asked, he might provide the comfort. This is why he doesn’t show initiative, or seems to have become completely stupid. The relationship has been redefined around chores – and not just any chores but the chores deemed most important by the wife. The man cannot predict what chore it is – so he surrenders his will. Is this the right reaction? probably not. But certainly a common one.
So no, I don’t accept that the glass should be more. If the glass is more, then everything else is, and you are fighting an unwinnable proxy war about underpants. The only solution is to get past the glass and find out what is the actual problem.
Dude, you still don’t get it, do you?? I too teared up when I read this, because I go through the same thing!!!!
For one thing, nowhere does it say that she was “freaking out.” For another, you have entirely missed the point here. If you know that it’s important for the person you live with to be in a clean tidy environment and you continually – day after day after day – refuse to clean up after yourself, what you are saying is, in effect, “I expect you to either clean up after me or live in my filth.” That’s not respectful and it’s not an unreasonable thing for the other person to get upset about. It doesn’t matter whether it’s a husband and wife or a husband and husband or a wife and wife or roommates or parents and children. In fact my sister (as a 30-year-old adult who had returned home a few months earlier) was asked by our parents to move out of their home for much the same reason.
It’s exhausting to live with an adult who acts like a child. Adults should know how to clean up after themselves without even being told. Adults should know not to leave lights on in unoccupied rooms, to change the empty toilet paper roll, to use a glass instead of drinking from the carton, etc. If you are an adult who wants an adult partner in life and your current partner doesn’t understand the above and acts like a child, leaving them is not “freaking out.” It’s a reasonable course of action.
Ok, I can see after perusing the comments you stirred up quite the debate and touched on a sensitive subject for a lot of women, but honestly I couldn’t care less if this post is valid or supported…I just loved reading it. It was like porn. In fact I almost stopped reading because it felt a little bit like cheating. I’m going to read it again and then invite my husband upstairs 😉 If I forget to tell you later, I had a really good time tonight
This resonated with me in a way I could never find the words to express to my husband! You are so right, it’s not about the dam glass! Thank you!
Totally correct–not a mother, a partner! My husband and I have been married eighteen years and a few of them have even been happy. For as long as I can remember he has leaned on me for emotional support, decision making, day-to-day household management, being an active participant in his ministry and orchestrating various other areas of our lives. It is exhausting! I can’t count the number of times he has said, “If you will just tell me what to do…” He is a smart man. Why, in the name of all that is Holy, he cannot figure out what needs to be done is beyond me. The tire is low? See that it gets changed. The porch is a disaster area? Pick it up. Water is exploding out of a pipe in the basement? Cut the water and call a plumber. I would love to hear him say, “I’ve got this.”
I’m a woman and I hope if/when I’m married I never become the kind of wife that is so obsessive about trivial things like this, or I hope that I never marry someone I can’t communicate with reasonably and come to a mutual agreement with.
When you get married you will understand this post. Unless you marry the author of this post of course 🙂
Not about the glass 🙂
The thing is, though, it isn’t a trivial thing when you ask someone over and over again, every day to do one thing and they never do it. If he puts his glass there every single day when it would only take a couple seconds to put it in the dish washer, and you ask him every time to please put his dishes into the machine instead of leaving them by the sink but he never listens to you, it isn’t “trivial”. If he doesn’t listen to you when you ask him to do something to help you – especially something as small as putting a glass into the dish washer – how are you supposed to trust that he won’t trivialize anything more important than a simple cup? You would come to expect him to argue with everything you ask, because if he doesn’t even want to deal with his cup after using it how could you expect him to want to do any given thing you ask of him? It may seem like a stretch, but little things build up quickly.
You’ve missed the entire point of the article. It isn’t about the glass.
This is my first read from your blog and i honestly love it. Gives a balance opinion of both sides but really my favourite was when you said ‘Men can do things’ because they actually can.
Well, I’m glad he became so introspective and developed such a sensible philosophy about love and marriage as he attempted to reconcile, to his satisfaction, in his mind, the pivotal link between her inability to tolerate him and his inability to please her.
I think that if his former wife had taken as much time to examine their relationship in the light of ying-yang and and the whole, ‘she’ is different than ‘he’ approach that he adopted, then they’d probably still be married. But she didn’t.
She was willing to walk away because she wasn’t willing to ‘figure it out’.
In essence; the dishes that got on her last nerve meant more to her than fighting for her marriage.
Makes me think perhaps it really wasn’t about the dishes. It is tho a most poetic excuse. It sounds better than, ‘irreconcilable differences’.
I think you missed the entire point of this article.
It’s as equally valid an outcome for the wife to learn to “let it go” for the exact same logic.
As woman in the midst of a divorce, I cannot even begin to express to you how totally accurate this is! One thing, it would have taken 10 minutes. I asked for it for 20 years! 10 minutes! I wasn’t even worth that.
One thought for husbands: has your wife ever started turning off the lights? No? Well according to this logic, divorce her because she doesn’t love and respect you.
I really want to go to sleep, Marcus. But you did a horrible job connecting dots, and I’d like to help before I do.
1. If your wife tells you that something you did or didn’t do HURTS her, maybe it’s true.
2. Your wife leaving lights on in a room she isn’t using and frustrating or annoying you IS NOT HURTING YOU.
3. Figure out what DOES hurt when she does it to you.
4. Next time you want to be a cock about not doing some little easy thing she’s asked about 14 million times, equate the HURT you feel from the painful incident to the HURT you’re inflicting by being a self-centered, stubborn, neglectful prick.
5. Wives, nor this post, equated divorce with a small disagreement over dishes.
6. You’re making the same piss-poor thinking mistake that I did. You think the dish is a dish because YOU only see a dish. But SHE sees the dish, she sees you saying “You don’t matter very much to me.”
7. So, once more, we’re not talking about chores and nuisances. We are talking about a human being slowly taking on damage. A person can only take so much.
Lastly? Just because it doesn’t make sense to you that it HURT her, does not mean that it didn’t.
This may not apply to your life specifically. But it applies to the vast majority of married men. Go ahead and read through the comments if you don’t think so.
Your knee-jerk and inaccurate response is WHY I got divorced and why millions of other guys will too.
There’s a better way.
“2. Your wife leaving lights on in a room she isn’t using and frustrating or annoying you IS NOT HURTING YOU. ”
It’s not? Maybe it is.
I relate very much to this article. I’m a man. And I feel hugely hurt, disrespected, and devalued by the behavior of a woman who refuses to comply with a couple of petty little requests that are more or less equivalent to “don’t leave the glass by the sink.” These little things frustrate and annoy me and put me in a bad mood and it wouldn’t take four seconds for her to do them as I ask and I’ve been asking for years. It makes me feel small and it makes me feel as if my desires about how a household ought to be run don’t matter to her.
This article is accurate.
It does work both ways, and the article doesn’t say it does not, as far as I can tell.
I turn off the lights! I clean all the dishes and the floors, the laundry, feed the animals, do yard work, plus I too have a full time job! Your comment particularly offends me, because right now, as I do many nights, I am packing a lunch for my husband to take to work, and he will most likely go out for lunch. But, he wants me to pack him a lunch, every work night. My job is 12 hour shifts, and I have to be up at 5:00am. This does not matter! But when asked 3 years ago, to put a piece of trim back onto the house after another repair had been made, he said “later”, and “later” is still yet to come.
I disagree Marcus. It’s not about putting the cup in the sink or not turning the lights off… in which I do both way more often than my husband. The point is, discovering her love language. If her love language is acts of service, not only does putting the cup in the sink matter but actually washing it matters as well. My husband’s love language is physical touch and it’s not all about intimacy. It’s the small touch as I walk passed him in the kitchen while he washes the cup.
Uhm, yea…he doesn’t do THAT either. Nice try.
I appreciate that you’ve analyzed this to the nth degree, but I must say that marriage is about the art of compromise, and if your wife couldn’t get past this, the dish by the sink wasn’t the problem. Truly.
I’ve been married 23 years. My husband will never ever remember how I like the toothpaste top ON the tube, or that the TP should go over, not under, the roll. These things annoy me most days, but balanced with everything else that constitutes our lives together, they mean nothing. It wasn’t the dish, it was the two of you, and that’s okay. Really and truly.
I do appreciate your thought process.
“These things annoy me most days, but balanced with everything else that constitutes our lives together, they mean nothing.” – that’s a thought process that works for you but not necessarily for everyone’s else’s marriage. There, “truly”, are couples who work out things exactly the way Matt does 🙂
I absolutely love this. It explains how I feel about my relationship but also shows me why he does not understand how I am feeling. Thank you!
so sorry best of luck
so sorry
I’m an older gal who has health issues which cause me a great deal of pain. Daily I spend way too much time going behind my husband picking up after him. If I did not, our home would look like an episode of Hoarders by now. We’ve been married nearly 20 years. Since the beginning, I’ve asked him to PLEASE pick up his things. He just will not, no matter what. I’ve thought about leaving many times. And for all you naysayers, no, it’s not about the damn glass or the damn towel or the damn dirty underwear lying on the floor less than a foot from the basket — it’s about the lack of respect, just exactly like this blog says. I don’t know why it’s so difficult for you all,
and my husband, to figure it out. I’m too old now to leave and start over, so here I am, stuck picking up crap everyday and feeling unloved. It makes for a very unpleasant existence. Who’d think a “glass” could cause such problems?
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I was married for nineteen years. When I told him I wanted a divorce, it hurt both of us and I have been swimming in guilt for that pain I caused him.
Now, after reading your post, I’ve come to realize something. He couldn’t make me feel “safe” in his love. Twice in our marriage he told me he was “in love” with another woman and both times we went to counseling. I fought tooth and nail to save my marriage (I had to drag him to the counseling sessions, both times). We got back on track, but finally, after all that, I was too emotionally exhausted to keep fighting, to keep feeling the doubt, to keep pushing back the fear that once again I’d be hearing all about his feelings for another woman.
Thank you for those words. You put it in focus for me.
I’m a wife and I can hear myself talking in some of the lines there. It’s written simply and meaningfully.
Finely argued
I cannot know all nuances that comprised the author’s marriage, but I have been the wife in this situation, as have many others. I realize now, although the marriage died for this and other reasons, that I chose to a) equate small irritations with him not loving me “correctly” (ie, the way I deem he should behave/express his love) and b) I handed over a ton of my responsibility to choose to feel good and happy over to whether I liked his choices and what I decided they meant about him and me. Life is too short to go around feeling burned and victimized all the time.
Hey Colleen. Thank you for this.
Me, and every guy ever married having trouble connecting a glass by the sink with emotional pain, agrees (and probably told his wife in an argument that life is too short to feel hurt and victimized all the time.)
Three things:
1. I don’t pretend to know what it’s like to be a woman and will never be so bold as to try to offer wives marriage advise. I think the psychological process of finding how to not let “the little things” bother you so much is as helpful to a relationship as a man trying to not dismiss them. So thank you.
2. I think people can learn to “control” their emotions more effectively, but it’s VERY hard, and is a pretty good idea to respect an involuntary emotional response as a sign something needs addressed.
3. When a husband grasps the glass thing and that “problem” goes away? All similar problems are likely to go away, too. When your wife thoroughly feels loved and respected and validated, SHE DOESN’T feel burned and victimized by the little things. Because the actual problem all along was mutual respect, thoughtful unselfishness, and connection.
Thank you for being part of the conversation.
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So Bad Buddy …….just enjoy new life
I love this. The way you really explain what the woman’s actually thinking. It’s funny because so many of the examples are things my ex and I always fought about. Except I was the one leaving my coffee mugs by the sink… Or on the table… Or in the bathroom lol. And he was always tracking mud and cement through my clean house. None the less, these things were just arguments we could pick and fight about instead of really talking about the bigger issues we had. Respect is absolutely key and what it comes down to. Props.
I like the originality of your approach in this article; the creative way you have handled the subject. This is superbly written. It can relate to this. We have to see beyond ‘the glass in the sink’ and get what the act means. It is the meaning that actually matters. And differences in ways of thinking, seeing and appreciating should be considered. At the end of the day, both spouses need to enter the other person’s shoes. I think this article will save many marriages.
I love this so much! Sadly, too often when husbands fail to do the little things, take the hints etc…they are actually disconnecting, detaching. Many times that is a sign of another, deeper problem. Guys..if you are disconnecting..ask yourself why. Are you paying attention to your life? Are you engaged in the moment? Are you truly connected? Maybe your mind is on more “important” things like work, the game, golf, the cute new secretary? Maybe you have addictions. Wives…be there, show up, be seen and be brave. YOU are the important thing.
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Bullshit.
I’m sorry but your complete theory is Bullshit. The mere placing dishes by the sink may have been an irritant to her but she obviously has many issues with you. And furthermore, if you never left a dish out or in the sink, always doing that would probably grate on your nerves eventually, causing you to become the complainer… Making you the whimy bitchy one. If the ONLY reason was the dishes, she never loved you like she said, because live is patient, kind, longsuffering and not petty. So check your gauges on importance. Yes. It’s important to do your part in the housekeeping, but if leaving dishes is s reason for divorce, your marriage was crap to begin with. Now this is strictly my OPINION, and I’m no means is it trying to tell you what to do, but I think I’m right. Does anyone else think the way I do?
You’re the first person to get it and not get it all at the same time.
OF COURSE my wife didn’t end a nine-year marriage and put our son, herself, me and everyone we know through the very painful and difficult process of divorce.
And yes! Of course my inability to identify why something stupid like a dish left by the sink was indicative of other problems and part of an overarching thought process and pattern of behavior men commonly have which, over time, will destroy their marriage.
A husband wise enough to “get” the dirty dish thing will have no trouble connecting the dots between this specific conversations and every other virtually identical point of contention between he and his wife.
Thank you for reading and commenting, Jerry.
Oh man…. years ago we joked that we broke up over the dishes. HA! This article is mostly spot-on. A lot of what was said on the woman’s side (not all of it) was my inner dialog. I didn’t speak up for the longest time about how this bothered me because I figured it was MY issue to deal with and figure out why it bothered me so much (and what the writer stated about the man’s side was a part of why I didn’t bring it up). When I finally did speak my mind and answer the What’s Wrong question, I didn’t get the “Oh…that’s all? I can do that,” response I was hoping for [see article].
Men are from Mars. Women are from Venus. And, we broke up over the dishes. LOL LOL
Your article is so, so familiar. Sorry ’bout the marriage. In the ’70s, I read a book called “The Intimate Enemy — how to fight fair in love and marriage.” The term “gunnysacking,” a central theme in the book, explains your situation perfectly. And do us all a favor, either wash the glass by hand, or put it in the effin’ dishwasher so you’ll be ready for the next one. Good luck!
I would definitely leave my wife if she got upset with me over something like that. It’s just plain incompatibility.
See I have 1 massive argument about this. Its very well worded and completely true, but lacks a form of honesty.
If the glass getting left out made her feel disrespected or unappreciated, then why were these feelings not brought up and shared with the so called “love of your life”.
It seems to me that the real problem in this story isn’t a simple change to ones lifestyle or habits to respect your partner, its a communication issue.
You should be able to tell the love of your life, partner, or significant other that not respecting a simple request to put a glass away or fold the laundry, makes you feel the way it does.
Why should it be either partner’s responsibility to read minds?
Why let emotions control your actions in a way precived as sneaky or misleading?
Why not address a problem to its full extent?
Seems more like this relationship could have been saved with simple communication and general cleanliness….
But still… Good message!
Yeah I’m gonna have to agree with Missy on this one – while I appreciate your recognition that men and women process marital interactions differently, it’s a two-way street. Should you put your glass away? Definitely. Is it a sign that you don’t love and respect your wife? Absolutely not. If you’re capable of (eventually) understanding that your leaving that glass on the countertop is causing her emotional turmoil, she’s just as capable of (eventually) recognizing that for you, it’s just a glass. You’re not leaving it out to be disrespectful; in fact, you probably didn’t even realize you left it there.
On top of that, there are probably a million other little things you did every day to love and nurture and care for her. Sure, she’s perfectly capable of raking leaves, getting the oil changed, or swapping out that bum light bulb in the entry-way, but those are things you do – not because you necessarily enjoy them, but so she doesn’t have to.
So yeah, it’d be nice if men understood that often we interpret you leaving your dirty underwear in the floor means you don’t respect us enough to throw them in the hamper, but we women also need to stop taking everything so darn personally. Sometimes a glass on the countertop really is just a glass on the countertop. And hey, how bout we start recognizing and appreciating the little things our partners ARE doing for us, and stop trying to mould them into perfect little housemates?
Accept love as it’s given, rather than demanding that your partner show love the way you think they should. You’ll be a lot happier.
I think the glass by the sink is just one of many little things…it’s a symbol. Married people tend to take each other for granted and all these little petty things just add up and turn into a mountain that they can’t get past.
This is tough to really understand if your personality can’t see it intuitively. I’ve been married twice. The first to a otherwise decent man who, unfortunately, was totally oblivious to these small details that mean “I hear you.” Years of ignoring the big stuff, sure, but even the little habits that make you feel like a servant in your house, and model that servanthood in your marriage for your kids to take with them into their adulthoods…it’s dehumanizing, and it builds resentment that over time can look quite out of proportion when finally vented. Second marriage, I understand this so much more. He does a lot of small things that could aggravate me if I let them, so I don’t. I ask him a few minor habit changes that will make me not have to feel like I’m in the nag-or-repress deathloop, and he does them! And there is much rejoicing. And I change the things he asks of me that could drive him a little crazy too.
It’s a sweet life, but it took the difference of two entirely opposite male personalities to see the underground fight that persisted all through my first marriage…although we never ‘fought.’ This subtle stuff matters.
Thank you so much for writing this article. I think the more people who read this and understand it, the more relationships that will be saved. You really understand this perfectly. Don’t worry about the people giving you bad feedback, they’re the ones who just don’t get it. Even if their marriage is good now, who’s to say it won’t one day reach a breaking point because of this exact thing?
Thanks again,
Justine.
A good article. I appreciate your patience and being an understanding husband to your wife. I relate this situation to my uncle and aunt that happened to be like this. Thanks Matt~!
IMen and women are wired very differently. For women, love is a perfect mixture of respect, care, attention, affection, understanding and sharing. For men, it is different…. it is more like, “I am with you because I love you”. I loved reading this article
Simple…women want “men” not “boys” who still try to live their lives after they get married as they did when they were in their Mommy’s home. Men want to be treated like a man, but many do not want to grow up, be responsible, and act like a man! Selfishness keeps individuals from seeing another person’s point of view…even in marriage. This is why divorce rates are so high, besides the reason of infidelity. I invite you to visit my Blog during the month of February…I will be blogging on Relationships: Love, Romance, Intimacy & Passion. See you there! 🙂
I’ve learned to openly tell my husband what I need instead of hoping he will eventually show me the love I need. When it boils down to it, no loving partner could deny love to an open, confident request for love expressed in a certain way. Women need to have the confidence and trust to ask for what they need. Ie. Would you stroke my arm sometimes when you walk by and tell me you love me?. Although this might seem strange to ask for as most loving couples would express this type of affection, in my marriage I had to ask explicitly for it because my husband shows his love through acts such as doing housework unasked, taking baby for a nap, never complaining etc. he is a truly wonderful man! But I do need at least some affection to feel loved. He doesn’t really need it. I do. So I learned to ask and he learnt to give it. Great, insightful article!
Yes. It’s not about the dishes all over the couch, it’s the feeling that I have no room there because his mess is more important. It’s not that all the kitchen cabinets are always open, it’s that I’ve told him many times that I’m going to crack my head on one of them some day but he doesn’t seem to care. It’s not that there’s food wrappers all over the kitchen and living room, it’s that there’s garbage cans all over our house and I desperately want to believe that I am with a man who is capable of using them. I feel like he’s smarter and more able a person than he is showing himself to be, and that disappointment cuts pretty deep.
Reblogged this on pratispirouette and commented:
Its a wonderment to me that its the same approach and attitude between the genders, in any part of the globe! But the dissection is deep and an almost plead-like. The spotlight has to be on “But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence..”. Surprising that men are capable of amazing creativity, humongous or miniscule… yet its a matter of choice for them to , to label an act petty or not. In this instance, the mis-placed glass, might not be an act to disrespect, dislike or degrade… but certainly sets the women thinking about equality and balance in the marriage. That what if she were to be cultivating an irritable habit, would she be empathised and appealed for the deed to be done properly, with similar number of opportunities, patience and understanding? When that happens, a change in the psyche and approach can be expected.
Oh. My. God. Someone actually gets it. I’ve been saying this for years and thought I was overbearing, or too demanding, or … just plain wrong. Because somehow I’m always wrong, always the one looking for a fight, always the irrational one.
Even though to me, it’s not about right vs wrong; it’s about respect … caring for the other person … being a partner.
How dare you leave that funking glass by the sink you jerk off. Bahahaha. sobs while my guitar gently weeps…
Coming from another woman’s point…..being with someone that loves ALL of you is key….glasses anywhere and ALL….the place to be you and vice versa….support and encouragement to LOVE even if it’s NOT exactly what you love it’s WHO you love that matters…strip it down to the person and not the small things that clutter our perception of being able to grow, evolve and become our best self with another best self….choice of self is OURS to own not for anyone woman or man to conform
And there are divorces left and right for this reason ONLY…people are trying to change so much in oth ers they forget to share with others, including the ONE you LOVE most!
When I first read this i took a minute to collect my thoughts. Being on the verge of relationship catastrophe I read this and laughed at how inaccurate it sounded; hold on before you pick up the pitchforks. As I’m making tea for my headache I start to remember my Boyfriend of 5 years now telling me that I’m selfish and that i only care about myself and that i should want to do things for him as it is how he knows I love him. Im thinking of giving this a go and seeing how he reacts to it.
I am going to be annoying, and hope that if I comment it maybe will get my blog some attention. Check out my work in progress. Maybe someone will give a shit about what I have to say???
Good post, enjoyed reading it because I’ve been in that situation before, many times in fact.
And to everyone in the comments who don’t seem to understand this conundrum, let me explain why that one glass is so important, because it does make perfect sense. I’ll begin by asking you a question: Where you in charge of cleaning the kitchen, on the regular? Statistically, this seems unlikely, so I’m just going to assume it was one of your wife’s chores to clean the kitchen.
So if someone’s chores, besides paid work, possibly even child care duties, include cleaning a room and you deliberately place a dish, with military precision, next to the dishwasher instead of taking an extra three seconds out of your day, you are disrespecting all the work this person has put into keeping the kitchen clean. Why is it important to keep that kitchen clean, you ask? Bacteria. Simple, right? Same with leaving laundry on the floor, or leaving the bathroom a soggy mess, or sweeping crumbs from the counterpane to the floor. Your wife is showing her love and care by keeping your shared space healthy and comfy and nice, and then you come in and fuck it up.
Women like to be respected by their partners just as much as men do. Women like to have their work respected just as much as men do, especially all the unpaid work they put into shared living situations. The dirty glass may be just another dirty glass to you, to your wife it’s another thing to put away, another thing to clean in her presumably already busy day. From her perspective, that’s disrespectful as hell, even if she can’t articulate exactly why. You are effectively making your wife’s day busier with dozens of small things that add up over time. So either don’t leave a mess or clean up after yourself. As the article says, men can do stuff, so do it. Cleaning up after yourself when living with others is not an unfair expectation if you’re over the age of three.
Yes!!! Exactly
Great Post! I wish I would have read this nine years ago! I definitely can relate to your post.
Beautiful message: once you do everything out of love and respect, it is more of a gesture rather than a chore.
I am still wrapping my head around how dead-on this is.
I divorced last year after fifteen years of marriage, including the last five years of marital turmoil. In 2011 we attended counseling while formally separated to try to save our marriage. I expressed in one session that I felt like I had so much work to keep up with in our home that when he put his dishes in the sink, it felt like he was saying “i know you do a ton of work around here. Here’s one more thing for you to do.” I felt unappreciated and completely disrespected.
Our counselor told me that my personality tends to take things personally. That my ex husband simply didn’t feel like putting the dishes in the dishwasher and that had nothing to do with me or my feelings.
We should have found a new counselor.
I am now in a new, remarkably eye opening relationship with a man who honors my feelings and respects and appreciates me, as I do him. We communicate and pay attention to each other’s wants and needs as we grow.
The dishes were a symptom in my marriage, but ignoring the symptoms is destructive.
I guess I would argue that the better solution would be to actually talk about why leaving the glass out or putting it away is important. I’m more of the glass out person, but my Husband does have his annoying habits he’s the leave the butter knife out guy. We have fought over both and have felt resentful over both, when an argument did blow up once we managed to actually talk about the why and were able to find the compromise that had helped kill the resentment factor. Neither of us really came closer to actually understanding why it mattered to the other person, both us us came closer to accepting that it did and both of us developed a means to shake off the resentment. I find that a lack of communication creates the bigger issues.
Yeah good point. Communication is key. After a few years I gave up on the cup issue (he does this too), and he moved the cup away from the edge (so I wouldn’t knock it over accidentally). But some other stuff has improved. Communication and compromise is so important from both partners.
Some of us have this conversation regularly. I’m pretty sure I have said exactly what this article says about ‘I’m not your mom, I don’t want to tell you to do things, I want you to notice and do it because it feels like you think I’m your maid when you leave messes everywhere.’ They still have to hear it.
Great article! Men and women are wired differently, meaning our brains do not think the same way. Just read through all the replies. Men mostly, miss the whole point of the article and he says it point blank: “It’s not about the dish!” Anyone who wants to understand it better and maybe save your marriage, look up a book titled Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus. I think there was a video of it also back in the early 90s. I’ve been married 25 years and countless times I have used what I learned to stay patient and communicate in a way he understands and he gets it….mostly. LOL
Actually, the neuroscience is increasingly going the other way – while there are some statistical differences in the underlying structures of men’s and women’s brains, overall, you can’t actually tell if a brain is “male” or “female” without a body attached, and a lot of the differences that are so hyped in the popular press seem to have more to do with men being larger than women and that sort of thing. (I can provide some links to the research if you’d like – I don’t know how technical a discussion you’d prefer. I’m a neurobiologist, so this is, in fact, my day job.)
There is almost certainly some hormonal difference (I find the experiences of transgender people very interesting in this regard) and there is definitely a huge amount of difference in socialization.
It is not the brain that matters but the estrogen and tester one.
I remember reading that certain parts of the female brain are typically larger than in the male (like the pfc or hippocampus) so I don’t understand why you would need “a body attached.”
The hypothalamus, pineal gland and pituitary glands regulate hormone and are located near and/or within the brain. So, the structure of the brain and these glands my not differ between male and females, but they definitely differ in function (the hormonal regulation/balance they create for a male versus a female). I am NOT in neuroscience, so I will defer to your expertise. Technically, maybe the above structures are not considered part of the brain, but are independent and considered to belong solely to the endocrine system. I believe most laymen would consider these glands as part of the brain and thus be correct in saying/believing that significant differences in emotional functions and the resulting affects on logical processing are caused by the brain.
Kikina- Previous studies had found some evidence that certain portions of brains varied in size by sex. HOWEVER more recent bigger studies have shown that this simply isn’t true. That there is no statistical difference in brain structure and sizes between male and female. Therefore: when looking as a specific brain, you can’t know if it was a male or female withoug other evidence (i.e. a skull or body).
I’m no neurologist, but I’m pretty sure that while brains might be physically indiscernable from one another, active brain scans show that the male and female brain tend to activate different brain regions in response to different events.
It’s HOW they work that really matters. Not how they appear.
Its totally the socialization and other cultural factors….much more so than biology. Although I must admit that hormones likely do cause some differences in behaviour. For the most part, women are socialized to be unsure of themselves. This causes them (us!) to read situations defensively and to take actions of others as a personal attack. I struggle with this EXACT issue in my relationship with my husband and it is mostly because I think that when he doesn’t put the dishes away right away that this somehow implies that he think that I should do it. When I take a moment to reflect I always remember that this is NOT actually true and that it is perfectly OK to leave the offending dish on the counter. Never fails…he puts it away later.
I’m responding to my own comment because it I’m not offerred the option of responding to any of the above, and I’m doing this in brief because I’m at work and have my research students coming in to meet shortly.
In broad strokes, a lot of the issues here are about problems with how science is reported in the popular press. If you take a large number of male brains, and a large number of female brains, and measure various features (whether of activity or anatomy, this part doesn’t matter) and then take the averages of those measurements, you’ll generally get a distribution that looks something like the one at this link: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/OxleyDist.png (Note: this link has nothing to do with gender and neuroscience, it’s just a good visual representation of the kind of distribution I’m talking about.) The means of the distributions will be different. And because people get excited about gender differences, this will be reported in the popular press as well as in the scientific press. Often (pretty overwhelmingly often, and this drives me up a tree) the popular reporting is misleading. Sometimes, it’s more that people’s understandings of statistics tends to be poor, so they don’t actually understand what is being said. (You’d like to think that this would be the job of a science journalist, but apparently click bait headlines get higher priority. Admittedly, from what I can tell it kind of sucks to be a journalist these days.)
Anyhow, what people tend to latch onto is that men’s and women’s brains are statistically different from eachother… which is sort of true – the means are different. But if you look at the distributions above, you’ll notice the areas of overlap are much greater than the areas of non overlap. For any given brain, very rarely will you be able to determine with any certainty that it is male or female. (There was a really nice meta-analysis that came out on this just in the last couple of months… I think out of Israel?) Many of the reported differences don’t actually hold up to scrutiny, and even those that do aren’t strong enough to be used to distinguish between one brain and another. We have an awful lot more in common than we have different.
FWIW, I include the effects of hormones in my study of the brain, because they’re important. (Heck, even when I’m teaching Neuroanatomy, they’re part of the curriculum.) Neuroscience is a multi-disciplinary science. I was actually a computational biochemist before I was recruited into neuro, and a software engineer before that. Life is entertaining that way!
Thank you for writing this, thank you for understanding our point of view. This post pulled on my heart strings – I wish all men could read this and all women could learn from your post as to why the glass left in the sink next to the dishwasher is so important to us – I don’t think a lot of women really understand why its so important – you hit the nail on the head and bought tears to my eye – I wish my ex and I have been able to read and discuss this before it was too late.
You took the words out of my mouth….
Unless of course, you’re the man in the relationship – and its your wife (and kids) who are the ones leaving the dishes out.
Excellent perspective! Now write what the wife did to end the marriage too 😉
Very interesting read! Seeing two sides to a story as well as the underlining conversations that were never voiced.
http://loveandrespect.com/
THIS. Its like you reached into my mind and heart and pulled out the the words I could never express effectively. I would like to add that when the husband Does eventually figure this out, and begins to show respect and appreciation for his wife, in return his wife will not feel she has to play the role of the nagging mother. She will feel more tenderness and love for her husband, and see him as an equal partner instead of a stubborn child. It’s a full circle of love and respect, and the rewards are priceless. This one little realization will heal a broken heart, and perhaps even a broken marriage.
Your wife had some deep rooted issues, or your marriage did. A glass by the sink shouldn’t ruin a marriage, nor should it denote love, trust, or respect. I bet for every glass you left on the counter, she did at least one thing that irked you on a similar level. Hopefully your next relationship won’t be with a psychopath.
Seriously? Did you even read this?
What he said was harsh, but not completely false. The author of this post is explaining his journey of understanding why his wife left him and the marriage failed, not so much that she is justified for all of her actions and feelings. That’s my opinion. I can understand how I could have fixed a relationship without believing that it should be fixed. We can understand a psychopath that murders without condoning the murder. This lady screams Daddy issues and deep insecurities that she was totally dependent on her husband to patch all the holes in her heart. She likely didn’t feel loved or secure because she hasn’t felt that way about herself in a long time. That is not a partnership or marriage, that is him carrying her emotionally and any time her foot touches the ground because his arms are aching, she lashes out.
It’s not the glass. After the first time, your partner tells you that something (anything) upsets them, it isn’t about the glass (the something) anymore, ever again.
The secret to marriage. In two sentences.
Nice work. Brevity isn’t my strong suit. 🙂
YES.
“But why are you so upset about [that thing I did]? It’s illogical so you should get over yourself. And I’m going to keep doing it to show you how wrong you are.”
You probably wouldn’t say those exact words, but that’s exactly what you’re conveying when you do stuff like that.
A million times yes!
It says “If you care, you deal with it.” And that isn’t fair at all.
My husband has always been like this. He always acts like doing stuff for me is a huge pain in his ass, so much so that I wonder why he got married. Likewise, he is cautious about me stuff for him. He has never said why, but I can assume he is afraid he will be expected to reciprocate. There is no grateful spirirt in our marriage. I tried for years, but one day I woke up and realized this was as good as it gets. There has always been him in his camp, and me and the kids in the otber. He has kept himself apart our entire marriage. He doesn’t see it, so we will muddle on as long as we can.
The part I don’t *get* is why it’s ONLY the wife’s job to pick up everyone’s dirty glasses. The part about respect is that YOUR glass is, in fact, YOUR glass. When you dirty a glass, you clean a glass – not leave it for your live-in maid to pick up all the dirty glasses as well as other chores that you are making for her. It’s NOT her dirty glass.
So here’s the thing, you sound a lot like me, wanting to, and attempting to do a million things for your wife, yet one tiny oversight results in major blowouts. Came into the marriage very gung-ho, but find myself growing burned out because it is never good enough, I can see how this type of cycle gets exacerbated over time. You say that it’s about respecting your wife’s wishes, even when they appear irrational, because it’s for her and she comes first and all but here’s where it gets tricky, there are exactly zero things that I demand that my wife do yet a million things that she demands of me. She could do a grand total of nothing, I’d still love her and I’d never bark orders at her to do anything, and if it didn’t get done, I’d do it, as I generally do anyway. So it’s not so much that you don’t respect her, but more so that you don’t obey her. It gets burdensome sometimes, it’s hard to be the guy who does all he can and still can’t make her happy or satisfied. It’s not that you left a glass out, it’s that she made a rule, a rule you didn’t have a say in implementing, and you’re not obeying her rules. Maybe I’m projecting my challenges in my marriage upon your situation, I’m still trying to figure it all out, but I know it’s hard as hell to be in the role where you do so much yet can never win, don’t complain, don’t make demands and forego your own needs to satisfy hers.
I would have to say that putting your own dishes in the dishwasher isn’t a rule. It’s common decency as is sweeping the floor if you see it’s a mess or cleaning a toilet once in 40 years or a bunch of other everyday household chores. When both people work and yet the burden of the home falls on the wife, even the smallest help seems like a blessing. It shouldn’t have to feel like taking care of yourself and your business and that of the kids is a gift to the wife. It’s just part of being a responsible husband. Maybe she makes rules because without them life would be chaos and then the husband would find ways to blame that on her also.
I wouldn’t say it’s part of being a responsible husband, I would say it’s part of being a responsible adult.
There are zero things that you ask your wife to do? How about every time you leave that glass out, you’re actually telling her to wash it?
Every little thing you don’t take care of yourself is actually you telling her to do it.
Exactly so. That glass won’t wash itself. I see people in my house use things and then not put them away. I wait to see if it’s just that they haven’t done it yet, but that’s not it. Or if it is, yet means weeks. I don’t think it’s reasonable to leave your glass out for weeks. Other people have to use the glasses. If you used it, and don’t wash it, eventually someone else will have to. The Categorical Imperative says “Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction.” If everyone used glasses, and never washed them, what would happen?
“Every little thing you don’t take care of yourself is actually you telling her to do it.”
YES!!!! that is exactly how I feel. Thank you!
It sounds like you’re missing the point both in the article and in your life. Marriage is about connection and respect. You can’t have either of those, no matter how much you do for someone, if you only do things on your terms. Sounds like you are a martyr type who pats himself on the back for doing SO MUCH, but resents any requests from your partner (framing it as lack of “obedience”). If someone asks you to do something small and you refuse to do it? It’s a disrespectful slap in the face. The way you described everything above makes it seem like you see your marriage as a battle to be won. You’re doing SO MANY THINGS so you’re winning. But she’s not 100% happy with you because you’re “never good enough”. Guess what? Most grown up good people do most things right, as they should. That does not give them leave to do things wrong without consequences. Being a jerk (by not connecting with and respecting your partner) doesn’t get a pass because you checked things off a list.
It isn’t fair that you feel that way, and maybe you are missing your wife’s perspective, or maybe she isn’t being fair to you. Have you had an honest, non-judgmental, non-defensive conversation? Maybe you could split the chores up a different way so you don’t feel like you are doing everything. Maybe her barking orders at you isn’t really about those tasks. Maybe there are other ways she feels unsatisfied and you are directing your energies at things that will never make a difference.
Marriage can be hard. If you can’t communicate together then you should see a counselor separately and then together so that you can work out your issues and build a happy marriage.
I don’t usually pull out the bible in an argument, but it does say that a wife should obey her husband and not the other way around. Perhaps that’s the issue all together, men are logical, women are emotional. When we do things based on logic, tasks are completed in a logical maner, in a way that makes sense, trying to complete a task based on how your wife is feeling is a loosing battle. In this case, the husband can never make his wife happy because her emotions will continually change, but to do something logically, it would never change. Doing something logically is a science, not a theory of what could or might make her happy today. This is why I argue that that women should simply obey their husbands and life would be so much simpler.
I am a woman, a wife, and a partner. Communication and compromise are the key to a happy marriage. In defense of men everywhere, most women create impossible situations for their mates. You have a choice…you can either have an equal partner, or a robot who follows orders. If you are the type who issues orders to your husband, he will become afraid to act independently and take on tasks of his own initiative. Or, he will become passive-aggressive and dig in his heels by refusing to be “told” what to do. Couples need to talk about what each will do in the marriage. Divvy up chores according to what each is best at or doesn’t mind doing. Pick your battles and you’ll win more often. For example: My husband is willing to cook for me, but he makes a terrible mess in the kitchen and has ruined some of my cookware. I’ve had to choose which is more important…having a nice meal prepared for me, or having a clean kitchen and nice cookware. Since cooking for me brings him pleasure, I’ve made the choice to clean up after him and replace stuff that gets ruined. He’s a much better shopper than I am; I’m good at fixing things around the house. He’s willing to scrub floors on his hands and knees; I’m better at folding laundry and making beds. My point is, we discuss these things, even the little annoying things, so we don’t build up resentment and hurt. He should not leave the glass by the sink, but she should not nit-pick about something so minor.
Here here…a woman I agree with. It’s not always the man’s fault when women have ussues.
While I agree with “LadyBlue”, I also note that her husband is actively partnering in the duties. That is often not the case, and it didn’t sound like the case in the article. When everything house-wise is left to the woman, but she is also working (either outside the home or in a home-office) and ALL or the majority of duties fall on her, it can, indeed, be a respect issue rather than a rules issue. When mutual courtesy is exchanged, things go as she experiences. When that exchange does not occur, problems are certain to arise.
This is a great article about the differences about men and (some)women and ways of thinking. It shows that two people need to be good or best friends in a marriage – not selfish little whiners. If a woman looks towards her man to validate herself and the work she does in the family then she has issues. Also if a husband can look on his wife as his best friend whom he not only loves but likes, then he will want to do what makes her happy because he is her friend. Also because she is his friend she will accept this still used glass on face value and not a personal attack towards her value. I think that this is one of the things wrong with some people who get married. They are looking towards the other person for validation, security and to make themselves feel good while that feeling has to come from within. My husband and I are best friends and would never let a situation like that or any other go that far. Sounds like this couple needed a therapist before a lawyer. Maybe if they were friends they would have.
You finally get it! It’s about respecting each other and compromise. Not really hard at all. Although, after 24 years of marriage, I still find it comical that my husband craves a pat on the back for taking the garbage out on Sunday and Wednesday (I take it out the rest of the week & get nothing!) and jumps to do the dishes only when we have guests! On a daily basis I ask myself, “is this issue worth an argument? do I really care THAT much?” and if I do, then I say something! Otherwise, I bite my tongue. I choose to spend our time together NOT arguing, but if I am going to lose sleep over it (or if I am still thinking of it 3 days later), then I owe it to both of us to say something. Remember, the approach is as important as the complaint! “I have a thing about dirty dishes on the counter” sounds much better than “you NEVER put anything away”…
Matt,
I applaud your courage for sharing and being vulnerable. I have this quote by Mother Teresa taped inside our kitchen cabinet. “Wash the plate. Not because it is dirty not because you are told to wash it but because you love the person who will use it next.”
Nice Read. How often we forget that it’s the little things that irritates the most and that such can cost us a lot if not addressed promptly. It doesn’t harm to ask why they do what they are doing and why they do they way the do it.
This is a really great article…so good it should be required reading in marriage counseling! It sounds like you really allowed yourself to look at your part in the failing of the marriage and find the things that needed to change in you…good for you! You will most certainly have a much happier and healthier relationship in the future. That is the thing I think many people fail to do at the end of a relationship…instead of focusing on what the other person did wrong and why it is all THEIR fault the relationship ended, focus on yourself and what you might have done wrong and try to change bad behaviors. It really is too bad that your wife was not able to better articulate why the glass upset her. That is where she was really really wrong. It is unfair to you that she did not tell her why the glass REALLY upset her. It seems if she had been able to express how the glass made her really feel, that it was so much more than the stupid glass, you guys might have had a more fulfilling and lasting relationship. Best of luck to you in the future.
Hey. Thank you. I’m of the opinion that NO wife or husband (who regularly engages in these types of arguments) are able to effectively communicate their feelings.
There are ALWAYS exceptions (and couples who do not have these types of fights are likely among the exceptions)… but I believe strongly that our brains have translators.
And that, as politically incorrect as one might try to paint it, men and women GENERALLY speak two different languages.
And I equate a wife explaining the glass by the sink to her husband as she would to her girlfriend to be the equivalent of her speaking Portuguese to someone who only speaks Mandarin.
And when he explains back, he’s speaking Mandarin, but her translator can’t make it Portuguese.
My premise is that men and women can BOTH be “right.” They can both think and feel true things.
But when the person they love the most doesn’t know how to accurately interpret those things, and they feel hurt and damaged afterward?
I think the divorce statistics (and COUNTLESS number of undocumented shitty and unhappy marriages we hear about) speak for themselves.
I believe there’s a better way.
It starts with the conversation we are having right now.
Thank you so much for being part of it.
wow, I was married to a raving lunatic alcoholic. I guess when you put life in perspective, the glass by the sink is a trivial issue. I wish that was all he did wrong. She must’ve had way more going on than a dish by the sink. That was just an excuse. Life is hard enough as it is, why blow up such a trivial issue?
No. I can relate to this. My husband is a slob and when I come home from work I have to pick up after him every single day. It is exhausting. I have asked him every way I know to take part in maintaining a decent level of tidiness in the house but he doesn’t. I have explained to him in every possible way I know how exactly why it is upsetting, and that will help for a few days but then it is back to the same behaviour. I can’t use our desk to write until I clean up all of his clothes, I can’t tell which clothes of his need to be washed and then he gets mad at me when I wash clothes that weren’t dirty, any time I use the kitchen it is a huge chore and I have to clean the whole thing because he has left cups, coffee spoons, and crumbs everywhere. It is all these small things that add up to me feeling like I am his mother. I did not agree to that. We agreed to be partners and lovers. I could not live like that in the long term. It seems trivial but it isn’t. He isn’t abusive or an alcoholic and he doesn’t insult me verbally, but it still doesn’t make for a happy marriage.
I agree. Most people have differing thresholds as to when they see the house as being messy or dirty. I know my fiancé’s threshold is a lot higher than mine, and I try to take that into account. He does too, by the way. However, when another person’s messiness goes beyond aesthetics, and enters the realm of “I have to clean up someone else’s mess in order to do what I need to do”, then it is seriously impacting you and it is, in fact, something the other person needs to change.
I’m fully aware that I’m a slob and realized long ago that I could never marry a neat freak. It goes right along with political and religious views, leading to arguments that will never be completely resolved. So I married a slob that shares my political and religious views. We clean when we know company is coming or when we admit to each other it has gotten out of hand. There is a harmony in our chaos. I could have married a tidy and neat person, but then I would always be struggling to meet a need for him that isn’t important to me and vice versa. I know a woman who had to leave her husband when she realized his demands of a clean house left her walking on egg shells. He was happy until she forgot to sweep the porch or unload the dishwasher and she came to dread the lectures. How can chaos and order find balance without feeling resentment? The dish by the sink will never be important to me and while I might remember to put it in the dishwasher for the sake of my partner, will my partner reciprocate by giving me a break when I slip up, which is going to happen? I have nothing but respect for people dealing with the challenges of this type of marriage and if you can find a way to make it work, good for you! But I’m going to live in my messy house with my messy husband and argue about issues that matter and not the dish we left by the sink.
This is not a man or woman argument. This is a marriage argument. Throughout reading this, I kept thinking about my husband, and totally related with the man writing it. My husband is an acts of service kind of person. He likes things clean. He likes the bed made. I have pretty much never made my own bed in all of my adult life, unless I’m changing the sheets. I just don’t care. I’m going to mess it back up when I sleep again anyway. But I learned very quickly that it’s hugely important to him, so as much as I REALLY don’t care if the bed ever gets made, I take the time to do it for him because it’s something small and quick I can do for him to make him happy, because it’s huge to him. This is not a men/women issue, this is a people who love each other issue. Thanks for the reminder.
Our Alsace Lorraine was the ironing board. I kept leaving it out (ironing his shirts!) and he always wanted it out of sight. Finally we were ear-deep in an argument and I said, “You have no idea how often I put this thing away! You only see when I don’t, because you aren’t the one ironing. But you always have shirts.” And suddenly, we weren’t fighting any more. Everything is easier when you try to see the other person’s perspective.
Wow.. My fiance and I have lived together for going on 3 years and I still can not get her to clean up after herself. I have told her many times that all I want is for her to compromise with me. I have even gone so far as to printing out a simple weekly chores list for us to do together. Am I the only man out there dealing with this?
My husband deals with this with me. His problem is that WHEN I even get my empty energy drink can to the kitchen, I’ll leave it literally on the counter above the recycle bin. I have no idea why I have this disconnect but I do. A mess just doesn’t bother me but it bothers him and I’ve been feeling bad about it lately. This article is a good motivator for me to remember that my can on the counter is not big deal to me but it’s just one of those little annoyances I could save him, especially because he’s the one who does the majority of the cleaning in the kitchen.
You two are not ready for marriage yet and should go to premarital counseling. Seriously.
If my husband handed me a chores list, I’d be furious. You are acting like a father, not a husband (to-be). I don’t want to sleep with my father.
I’m sorry, this is just crap. She expected you to mind read and do things the way she thought they should be done with out her telling you. You are not a mind reader, you shouldn’t beat yourself up for not being one. I say, speaking from experience, she did you a favor divorcing you. Now go find a women who loves you and doesn’t mind moving your glass. Geesh.
After 40 years of marriage, I have a mantra I stick with…”Is this a hill I want to die on?”
If it’s so important, the answer is yes, I act on it. If it’s not (and a dirty glass would definitely fall into this category), I don’t.
The most important thing, though, is never assume. Never, ever. Ask, talk, listen, laugh, and compromise.
Great article. I have so many thoughts on this!
I think (most) conflicts that trip up relationships occur as we move through the process of achieving true maturity. (that must happen when you die.)
I’ve known my husband 42 years, married 32. On the surface we are truly polar opposites.
The above mentioned “Glass” issue took about five years. But there were a lot of other glasses to deal with in the cabinet and each correlated with particular stages we were going through, with our kids, our jobs, our parents…
But that first glass; it was a bitch. We both had one that needed cleaning.
Once you know how, and that you can, get past a primary conflict, (and you both must want too), it does get easier.
With a few other long married friends, we joke about getting to the other side. It’s a nice place.
So, what about when I HAVE explained it pretty much the same way you have. i.e. I have said, “I know it’s a little, unimportant thing, leaving your jacket over the back of the chair, but it really bothers me and it’s minor effort for you to put it in the closet. So, when you don’t put it in the closet, that send me the message that you aren’t even willing to expend minor effort to prevent something that you know REALLY bothers me. And that makes me feel like you don’t respect or love me, so can you PLEASE hang it up.” I mean, I have literally said that, word for word, several times and yet, he still doesn’t get it and still leaves his shit on the chair that’s 4 feet from the closet. I’ll send him your article, but there’s a good chance he’s going to keep doing those things that I’ve repeatedly explained: “even though I know it’s irrational, it makes me feel like shit when you do that, because NOT doing it would be easy for you and I’ve told you it means A LOT to me for you to not do it, but you still keep doing it and that tells me you don’t care about me.” So what am I left with? HOW should it be explained that he can finally understand? Or does he really just not give a fucking shit about my feeling?
I hear you girl! I’ve been married 20 years to a husband that leaves dishes, silverware, cups, and laundry all over the house and then complains about my lack of housekeeping! I have had the conversation with him MANY times about how this makes my feel, and that I need more help from him if the house is to be kept to his standards. I’m not asking him to WASH the dishes (we do not have a dishwasher), but simply to collect things and bring them to the sink so that I do not have to do a ‘room search’ before I wash dishes. Same with the laundry… don’t leave your dirty underwear on the floor behind the bathroom door when the hamper is literally 3 feet away! Both of us work full time and maybe I shouldn’t make such a big deal about having to pick up after my mate. I do try to ‘pick my battles’, but I can’t help but be frustrated by this adult child who can’t seem to take household responsibilities seriously, and can’t understand why I feel like his mother if I have to ask him repeatedly to ‘please bring your dishes to the sink so I can wash them’, etc. He’s 45!! I don’t have time to wait on him hand and foot! I wish he could read an article like this and take it to heart…. that it isn’t so much about the literal ‘dish’ as it is about respecting the fact that we both work equally hard outside the home and that I wish I could expect him to work equally hard inside it. We have tried to discuss chore distribution and tasks he is willing to do. It’s great that he is willing to take out the trash and scoop kitty litter and mow the lawn in the summer. Yet he is only fully taking responsibility if he remembers that trash day is every Friday and walks past the kitty litter and, seeing it needs scooping, will do it without having to be asked or reminded by me. I often wonder what he would do if he lived on his own…. but sadly, if anything should happen to me, I’m pretty sure he would choose to move back in with his parents and let his mom take care of him.
It is not the brains that’s are different but the testerone and estrogen
I will sound selfish when i say this, but why doI have to change? Why can’t the wife? I don’t see anywhere in here that talks about her trying to understand why it doesn’t matter to men. Or taking the extra effort to realize that a man will love them and that a glass on the sink doesn’t correlate to not respecting what they do. I’ve experienced the exact opposite on things that are important to me, so I can understand and I plan on taking this to heart. I plan on making that effort to wash that glass… but what about my little bit of crazy? I am tired of always giving, but never seeing a return. I feel like she wants me to change ecerything, so that she can continue on without having to. But hey, men are jerks, so we probably all should change.
I felt the same way. She probably SHOULD change.
But maybe we can give to get.
Maybe we can set the example instead of waiting for them to ask us for more.
Here’s what I think I know: MOST couples have these problems.
And MOST couples get divorced.
But MOST men don’t do most of these things I’ve come to believe are the difference between good relationships and bad ones.
I think when men proactively solve the “problem” we don’t realize even exists by doing things that matter to her even when they don’t matter to us, all this stuff we all complain about DOESN’T EXIST.
And then we can focus on, you know, stuff that doesn’t suck all the time.
There’s a better way, and no one’s doing it.
I’m glad people are thinking and talking about it, even if it’s just for one day.
My hubby and I reached the compromise where he can have his glass by the sink….. but it has to be near the faucet where I won’t accidentally knock it over with my elbow or have it take up cooking prep space… etc. As different as our brains are we both want to feel respected (I love that about your article). So he feels like yay I get my cup! And I’m like ok at least I won’t break it again, and he’s moved it. Now 9 years later I have my own water cup on the other side of the faucet (but can’t leave it there overnight… just for a few uses during the day).
It kind of seems ridiculous to argue over a cup, but if at the end of it you both feel respected it doesn’t matter what the argument is really about.
My husband is huge for doing all these little things that would have been simple for him to do, but then instead I have to do them, which adds up to a lot of extra work for me. I am on him about it (off and on, some days I just give up) all the time and I absolutely hate that. I would be really happy to make a compromise but he is not a big talker. I feel like there must be little things that I do that add up for him and if he told me I feel like I would be happy to be a good wife to him.
I don’t know if you are married, but I think most women would be happy for an open conversation about how each partner can foster a happy relationship, in a non defensive conversation of course. Do you feel like you have expressed yourself in a non-judgmental way? If you have and you feel like it wasn’t taken seriously then I could see how you would feel the way the author’s former wife did.
I am sure the divorce was due to far more real things and the root problems were not about dishes.
Husbands and wives each has their irritating habits which drives each other crazy. Marriage will always be a work in progress. Communication is one of the most important thing in a marriage. My husband and I have been married for 341/2 years before he passed away and during that time we did have our drag out, knock down fights. We fought for a week on how I’m not making a picture of tea right. That was in our early stages of our marriage. My husband even said the same thing to me : ” Just tell me what you want me to do and I’ll do it.” My response would be the same as the woman ” I’m not your mother.” What I am saying if you truly love each other the differentes you have can always be worked out. I do believe my husband and I would have lasted another 341/2 years because: Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, dose no behave indecently, dose not look for its own interests, dose not become provoked. It dose not keep account of the injury. It dose not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hope all things, endures all things. Love never fails.
( 1 Corinthians 13: 4 – 8a ) That is what loves about.
The best line in the article and the whole crux of a relationship “When you choose to love someone, it becomes your pleasure to do things that enhance their lives and bring you closer together, rather than a chore” It is not the case in every situation, but when we choose to give to the other person selflessly and with joy they really do seek to do the same for you. The benefit is even after 19 years of marriage you still find out new things that will please the other person and they find new things that they can do that will please you. Respect, Love, Communication (some stuff we want to hear some not so good), Laughter, Support and Humility all create a great relationship.
This is really inane and sounds like the actual divorce was about far more than this. Maybe he doesn’t even know it. A household is a household. When I have the energy, I do the dishes. When my husband has the energy, he does the dishes. Sometimes I do the dishes days in a row. Sometimes he does them days in a row. Sometimes we both do them. No human being divorces another person they love over leaving a dish or two by the sink, even if it’s a regular habit. Either these two people were not meant to be paired together or this is about more than he’s leading on.
Okay, this author has a whole series cataloging precisely why and how their marriage broke apart. It wasn’t over dishes. This article is misleading and makes his wife sound like a she demon. What an unfortunate way to pose this divorce. Sounds like he’s still self absorbed. He might be working on that, but this article is just bizarre.
Solid reasoning!
I have a series of posts referring to myself as a bad husband and trying to help people understand why, and then I (self-absorbedly) wrote a misleading post and magically made it popular on the internet in order to make my wife look bad.
Totally reasonable conclusion.
What I got from the article was that the Matt knows perfectly well that the divorce had many complex causes. I didn’t feel misled at all. He chose to write about this one part of the entire thing because he had an epiphany about it. An epiphany not about how terrible his wife was, but about how some of his behavior hurt his wife. I’m 99.9% sure that both Matt and his wife did or didn’t do many things that led to the divorce. I’m sure there is plenty of blame on both sides. I’m also sure that Matt is an awesome person to be willing to examine his role in it. It will make him an even better partner in the future. Hopefully his ex-wife is somewhere doing the same thing.
Thank you for getting it.
My least favorite thing about hundreds of thousands of strangers reading one thing I’ve written without context is the resulting comments like the one you just responded to.
So, I appreciate that.
I work in nursing homes for 53 years & the greatest lesson I learned in my marriage came from a 89 year old widow. I was grumbling about my lack of sleep from my husbands snoring & she said I used to say that now I lay in that bed & would give all I own to hear it one more time.25 years later I go to sleep every night after thanking God for our gift of that sound. I guess it would be good if he picked up his clothes from the bathroom floor but he does so many other things for me. Seems if you are so caught up in what he does wrong maybe a list of what he does right might help.
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All women are crazy. They will seem to use anything to get one up on you – including dirty dishes. All women are mental
Just for the record, this is the polar-opposite of what you’re supposed to think and feel.
Either your wife/girlfriend ISN’T crazy… or you make supremely horrible life decisions for attaching yourself to the shitty ones.
Let that marinate for a bit.
Trust me. Even my wife is crazy. They are all crazy. There is no amout of marinate for that. Accept it friend – we are born to lose
Woman to man: “change your behaviour so that I feel loved and respected.”. What part of that speaks to any kind of partnership, compromise or understanding?
I didn’t say that it did, Mark.
It’s your job to have boundaries and self-respect, and to enforce those boundaries and choose good partners who demonstrate the ability to respect your boundaries.
One of her boundaries (and she DIDN’T know you violated them until you lived together full-time) might be something that seems meaningless and benign to you like dirty dishes, or not wearing your shoes in the house, or not throwing loose change on the kitchen counter.
She has the right to enforce those boundaries too.
I’m not asking men to agree with their wives, or even to understand them.
I’m asking men to BELIEVE their wives when they tell him something HURTS profoundly and is damaging their relationship. I’m asking him to give enough of a shit to try to do or not do things that cause her to HURT less. It doesn’t matter what the thing is. Every wife or girlfriend will have different things that matter to them.
So long as men demonstrate, actively, that their partner matters to them, I think marriages will succeed.
Don’t you think she won’t be nagging and domineering and asking for too much once both of you are giving the other what you say you need?
Exactly. Me too.
Thank you for reading. Please try not to do the thing all men do where you assume how you think and feel is “right,” and therefore default to women being “wrong.”
Frankly, THAT is why more than half of all people divorce.
And it’s insane.
So please stop.
It is not about changing your personality, it is about taking mutual responsibility in life and being a partner. Just because you don’t care if you live in a complete mess doesn’t mean your partner should be the one to take responsibility for it if they don’t like it that way. That isn’t reasonable and if you feel like you shouldn’t have to meet your partner half way then I guess it wouldn’t bother you for a relationship to end over it.
Reblogged this on unwritten2016.
This is a really good article, coming from someone who is not yet married. It makes you think about how people treat each other prior to getting married. If a glass bothers you now, what’s it going to be like in 35 years? Bottom like is respect, no matter what stage of a relationship.
This is such a wonderful article, I am going to have to share this on facebook and ask my husband to read it. We have these kinds of fights all the time and I have flat out told him that if it doesn’t stop I will one day resent him so much that I wont be able to be with him anymore. This, of course, is after I have told him how I feel and why in every way possible that I know how. I don’t enjoy nagging him and I don’t enjoy picking up after him like he is a child. It is definitely about respect. I love my husband so much and it is really awful to have these tiny things wear so heavily on an otherwise incredible relationship, but I shouldn’t have to be responsible for every day to day function in the home. It is too much.
Maybe having it explained by another man will make it finally make sense.
Thank you.
It’s not about the glass. It’s never about the glasses, or the dishes, or the laundry on the floor.
It’s about the contempt. “I’m too good to do X task, but I expect you to do it” is an expression of contempt. It can be the household chores, or it can be taking care of the kids, or it can be who has to go out and work the really demeaning job while the other partner looks for a “good” job because the economy is crap. It can be who changes the diapers. It can be who does the scheduling or handles balancing the checkbook or making the unpleasant calls or who makes sure the oil gets changed in the car.
ANY time one partner finds that a particular task is “the other person’s job” and they aren’t willing to step up and do it occasionally because “I’m the woman, I don’t take out the garbage” or “I’m the man, I don’t worry about dishes”, or even “I’m a Skilled Professional, so since I’m laid off YOU have to take the fast food job because it’s beneath me”, what you’re ACTUALLY EXPRESSING is “You are lesser than I am”. You might not mean it that way. You might not even feel that way. In fact, you probably don’t – but that’s what got expressed to your partner.
When you are expressing contempt for your partner, the marriage cannot last. Everyone reading this knows what being held in contempt feels like, and everyone knows how subtle that can be.
It’s not whether it’s the man’s fault or the woman’s fault; contempt is not exclusive to any particular demographic. Everyone hates being held in contempt.
So, no. It’s got nothing to do with the glass by the sink. The glass by the sink is what we call an illustrative point, and I thought it was pretty well done.
Will you marry me? 😉
One post, two proposals.
Fantastic.
I’m not that great, Stephanie! Thank you for the smile.
Getting to the “why” of an argument helps to communicate the real problem. It is unfortunate you both are negatively effected by a lack of communication and understanding. However, the next relationship YOU have, sir, will be better for it. I only hope your ex-wife has the opportunity to learn this lesson as well. Otherwise, she is likely to repeat a similar relationship. I hope she reads your blog. Not only would she gain some peace, the insight would help her in the future.
This article hits so close to home. You are spot on with the emotions of both the husband and wife.
It’s nice that you’ve made the step of thinking, “I don’t understand why this is important to her, but since it is, I’ll act as if it’s important.” But maybe you could take the further step of thinking, “This is important to someone I love and respect, maybe I’m *wrong* in thinking it’s not important. Maybe she sees something I don’t see yet.”
Brain
I don’t have wife but my ex used to read my column ..may be she found my artical entertaing..but she pissed off when I write about her ..then i found that thing entertaing 😉
They are pissed off no matter what anyway. I dont think there is ever a day when they happy.
Well. The description of what is happening is spot on, but I have to take issue with the whole man/women angle. My wife is the glass leaver and I am the one who takes that as a sign of disrespect. Having said that, I can say that I am not sure about the conclusion that it is the glass leavers responsibility to recognize that, maybe I should not judge whether my wife loves me or not based on her compliance to every single little request I make.
Why communication is so important. And personality types.. I would have asked why the glass never goes in the dishwasher and ideally you would have answered because you would use it again and I’d answer Ok. the glass is agreat metaphor but one of a hundred other things. It’s impossible for us to understand how we are like to live with. But you are trying though i feel it’s much much more than respect – it is how happy we are married to that person.
I can’t help but ask men how they would feel if they were going to mow the lawn and the wife was in the habit of leaving glasses on the lawn, repeatedly. He has to stop and pick up all of the glasses each time before he mows the lawn. Now, it’s not like the husband mows the lawn daily! It’s not bothering anyone sitting in the middle of the lawn, or by the mailbox/driveway edge or landscaping (where it will be trimmed by weed eater or edger). And if the husband were to say, ”Leaving a glass on the lawn where I have to keep picking them up is really aggravating and makes me feel like you don’t appreciate the work I do, and that you totally disrespect me. As though I have to follow around behind you picking up what you feel is beneath you to do.. because I am not equal, a lesser person than you.
My husband and I are both in our early 30’s and have been together since High School. We have 3 kids who are 18mos apart and all in school this year. We have been through so many ups and downs in the coarse of our marriage (10years) and the cup on the counter issue ended shortly after there was not only his cup, but 3 other cups from our kids left on the counter as well. That’s life, that’s reality… be thankful for the little hands who put the glass there. I understand her issue with the cup being about so much more to her than just a glass… but, the way I look at it is that, I do a lot of things that prob drive my husband insane as well. You aren’t perfect either.
Be thankful you have a spouse and a family together. For as many things you can choose to bicker about, there is always something you can choose to be thankful about instead. Perspective is everything! <3
We give ourselves a chance to overcome anything when we focus on the pros and not the cons.
You said it: Gratitude. The first step on any journey toward things that are sustainably satisfying.
Thank you for saying it.
I haven’t read all the replies but just wanted to say – if a wife is not willing to make allowances for a husband’s bad habits, there’s a lot mote to what broke up the marriage than the husband not putting a glass in the dishwasher.
I can say this from experience, I am a wife with two short marriages behing me (2 years and 6 years) and am in a long one one (27 years) which works because we both make allowances for each other – because we care enough to do so.
Wow. I agree with you. My husband and I have been married for 26 years, and not always happily. While DH has *always* been responsible and reliable and faithful, he has not always been responsive to my needs, and I have felt resentful over it. You see, while I admire so much about my husband, it was clear to me that he was all those wonderful things by nature and nurture. I appreciate and am grateful for all of his wonderful qualities (and expressed my appreciation and gratitude freely and frequently), but I never felt that anything he did was motivated by his love for me. And being a relatively quiet man, it was not in his nature to express his love or appreciation for me. So, for years, I have felt like a relatively unimportant accessory to my husband’s life.
About a year ago, DH became convinced that I was preparing to leave our marriage (I wasn’t), and suddenly began to hear my petitions. Simple things. Thoughtful things. Big things. I feel so valued! So respected! So loved! We are like newlyweds!
I keep wondering if I am going to wake up and discover it was all just a pleasant dream.
I wasn’t preparing to leave our marriage. Not at all, but I had sort of given up. I was trying to remain pleasant, but I gave up all expectations I had of our relationship. I needed to feel valuable, and appreciated. I stopped sacrificing for the sake of the marriage. I started doing things that were important to me, taking classes at the YMCA, adopting eating and sleeping habits that suited me, reaching out to old friends with whom I had lost contact in all the years of child-rearing. This was a jarring transition for my DH, and I did everything I could to reassure him, but in the end, it was my actions that finally got through to him that I was unhappy, where words had failed. And when he thought I was unhappy enough that I might actually leave him, he found himself wanting to please me, so desperate that he was even willing to do the things that I had told him I would appreciate. He acknowledged that his pride had been in the way. He had to humble himself, and now he is prouder than ever of the exemplary husband he is demonstrating to our sons. I am so grateful and tell him so all the time. And by his thoughtfulness in looking for ways to please me, I find that the things that go undone don’t bother me at all. I am still going to the Y, going on bike rides and beach walks, but now he goes with me. We together have worked on and supported each other in adopting healthier eating and sleeping habits. We have talked more in the past year than we had in the preceding decade, and he has shown a relentless interest in knowing more about me, and trying to understand what is important to me. I have never been so happy in our marriage, not even when we were newlyweds.
Thank you for your article. I wish you happiness and healing from your divorce (and for your former wife as well).
This is exactly why I left. . .plus some additional complications. He still doesn’t get it and actually prefers me gone. 🙁 we have two small children. . .I thought that if I actually left he’d realize what I did for him. . .#stillclueless
Completely relate to your ex-wife — my spouse needs to be asked before attending to everyday tasks like putting away dirty laundry on the floor and putting away dishes. As you say, it’s not the discrete occurrences that make this insufferable, so much as the underlying notion that I have to manage or parent my spouse.
But this isn’t necessarily about your wife wanting to feel loved. In my case, at least, I know that my spouse loves me a lot. The cause of exasperation is more direct and straightforward: it is just a pain in the ass to have to *manage* your partner. It is demoralizing to envision going through all of life’s challenges — children, mortgages, illness etc– with a partner who needs to *asked* to complete even rudimentary chores.
Second, the gender essentialism in this discussion seems way off base to me. My wife and I struggle with this issue despite a reversal of the gender roles.
I am right there with you. My husband and I love each other very much. We support each other and appreciate each other in every other way… but when it comes to the house he is a total slob and I have to pick up after him every single day when I get home from work. It makes me feel like a mother and a maid. It isn’t like the relationship is awful, but that part of it takes such a toll that I can’t imagine being part of this relationship in ten years if things don’t change. To me it feels like he doesn’t respect that aspect of our relationship, even though I feel respected and loved in all other aspects.
But I guess, on that note, I feel like our intimacy has suffered because after a hard day of work and an hour cleaning up his mess I don’t feel very sensuous sometimes.
I had a couples therapist explain this to me:
Man comes in and drops coat on back of couch, wowan comes in and puts hers away in the closet…who’s right? Who is doing it properly?
We’d have a tendency to say the woman, as she picked hers up…but the truth is NONE of them is correct…or BOTH if you want…it’s how you grew up, habits you picked up over the years…everyone (man or woman) does things differently…so if something your partner does irritates you, TALK, but don’t expect them to change (if they do, great! If they don’t, well question yourself…is everything you do perfect in your partners eyes? I can guarantee the answer is no…he might be frustrated when you leave the laundry piled up for a day) so it’s a game of compromises and adapting
Totally agree, Crystal. Super-wise stuff here.
But it doesn’t account for the part where when men and women talk to one another, they often don’t make sense to each other, even though both are “right” and both “make sense.”
We don’t just need to talk. We need to learn HOW TO TALK. And that’s REALLY hard.
You can tell because most couples have the same fight over and over for 5-10 years, and then divorce.
That last sentence reads like exaggeration. But it’s actually true.
And it doesn’t have to be.
Thank you for weighing in. Good stuff there.
How do you stop having the same fight over and over again? Every Saturday I have the same argument with my husband…it’s exhausting and so frustrating.
I totally agree with crystal and the therapist, it is super silly to want the other person to be perfect or be like you. My husband does a ton for me, and I do a ton for him. I dont hold him to everything he doesnt do perfectly. that is unfair and I hope he doesnt hold me to those standards either. My dad always said the girl always wants the guy to change and the guy doesnt want the girl to change but the opposite always happens.
I agree with you crystal everything you do in your partners eyes is not perfect
No. Man is expressing dominance by taking up the back of the couch with his coat instead of putting it in the closet as lesser mortals like his wife are expected to do. If his wife wants to sit on the couch, well, his coat is sitting there and she’ll have to just deal with it poking her in the back. And of course she has decorated the living room to look a certain way, and his coat on the couch says “f you” to that. Most of marriage is men making little f you gestures, and then also going off about engagement rings and Valentine’s Day and any way in which they are required to say anything to their wives that isn’t “f you,” and then wondering why their wives have come to see sex as a chore. (Hint: it’s gotta be done his way–her on top, no clitoral contact, no tiresome foreplay and no afterplay. And if he ever figures out that the bath she takes afterwards is important to her physical health, he’ll make sure she is forced to shower instead. Gee, who’s right here?)
Yes. Exactly this.
Following this logic, my husband and I should be constantly in a state of FU competition since we’re both men. Perhaps you just illustrated the point of this blog post brilliantly by showing other areas where something is done (or not done) in one way and meaning is attached to it by the other partner.
Perhaps conversation about this coat and how it makes you feel disrespected and belittled is more constructive than making up reasons why he is doing these things and then treating these reasons as if they’re true.
After 28 years, my husband and I have gotten quite good at getting annoyed at each other then following that up with having a conversation about how X made us feel like Y (which often times the other person thought X meant Z) just explaining these perceptions to each other clean them up quickly be since neither of us is actively trying to piss the other one off …
I’d believe that if they were both OK with multiple coats piling up on the couch, or if the man consistently went to the couch and used the SAME coat every day so they didn’t pile up, or if he didn’t bat an eye when his wife threw her coat *over* his, causing him to have to move hers to get to his in the morning.
But I think one of the things that can make small things toxic to a relationship in the long term is the assumption that it’s just this one little thing, and that those little things don’t often add up to a systematic unfairness. Has the couple agreed that they’re OK with a coat-covered couch? Is part of their domestic bargain that he mows the lawn and she puts his coat away? Or is he just throwing his coat there because it’s easy to do, if she calls him out she’ll look petty, and they both know she’s going to deal with it (happily or not) on her next cleaning spree? It’s a lot easier to pretend it’s “just about one coat” when you’re not the person who’s going to be hanging up 5 coats at the end of the week.
And, I think that’s where the divide often is: when the man looks at one dirty glass by the sink each night, he sees… one dirty glass by the sink. An outlier. No biggie. But if the wife is the person who loads the dishwasher consistently, she sees the glass she just cleared yesterday. And the glass she’ll clear tomorrow. And all the glasses she’s going to have to clear this week and the next. Which is fine if that’s part of their domestic bargain.
But if she’s upset about it – and he’s trying to pretend THIS glass is the exception, week after week – then it clearly isn’t part of the bargain they’ve struck. And if he’s willing to gaslight and guilt her over a 4-second effort to get a cup in the dishwasher (I mean, he *could* always say “oops, sorry!” and toss it in), you can see where she gets off thinking her wants and needs must not be that important to him.
I would like to point out another dimension to the glass on the counter. My hubby, whom I adore, leaves all his dishes on the counter above the dishwasher. No matter how many times I have asked him to put his dishes into the dishwasher, it’s like he’s allergic to actually doing so. The reason why I get angry is because this means I am the one who has to put every single dish that is used in our house into the dishwasher. Every day. All year. This makes me feel taken advantage of, treated like a servant. When my hubby actually puts away his dirty dishes, it says to me, “You are not my servant. I don’t expect you to clean up after me.” Then, I can enjoy giving him a break by doing the dishes or putting his dishes away, or doing other helpful things for him, because – like you said – I feel respected and valued overall.
However, for the record, if my husband never puts another dish into the dishwasher, that is still not something that would ever lead us to a divorce. I didn’t vow to be with him “until I no longer felt loved and respected.” Our vows were permanent, not something to opt out of later on. For wives, that glass on the counter can be a reminder to love our husbands despite the imperfections and grievances… because, as mentioned, we certainly bring enough of our own to the marriage as well!
We have a winner!!! Well done, Jojo!!!
If everyone could read the book Love and Respect, that would be great 🙂 Unconditional love and unconditional respect is how its done!!!
I feel like that book is sexist though. He makes some points, but love isn’t necessarily more important to me than respect just because I’m female. I find respect to be equally important.
My gosh, if that wasn’t in your vows it should be. I mean it’s one thing to have an off day or something but to be able to say my husband doesn’t respect me and I don’t think he loves me? That is a reason to not be in the relationship anymore.
For the record, I don’t put dishes in the dishwasher because my SO always tells me I do it wrong so I said I just won’t do it and then you can do it the way it “should” be done. If he wants to spend time one day showing me how he likes it loaded, I’m ready.
Would this be the same as not buying your wife, the mother of your two children, a Mother’s Day gift because she isn’t your mother?
oh damn!
LOVE this! Extremely well said and very true.
I’m on marriage number two and it’s totally different this time around. I realized I could choose focus on the irritating things he does or I could choose not to. I also realized I am not perfect. I do irritating things. I actively chose and continue to choose everyday to see humour in his quirks. I tease him about them driving me crazy. It’s good humoured teasing that we both share in, back and forth. We laugh a lot. We both chose that. We grew up. He’s going to forget and leave his tools wherever he finished using them. I’m going to tease him about it (maybe take a picture of the hammer in the grass beside the chicken coop and text it to him with a smiley face) before I put it away where I feel it should live. He makes an effort to remember after 7 years. I make an effort to not take it personally or to think bad of him when he forgets. He’s the man I love. The one I want to grow old with. He’s there at night eating tangerines with me in bed while we watch comedy reruns. He’s my best friend. I focus on him fixing the chicken coop, holding my hand when I’m scared, accepting me when I’m falling apart, sharing his last tangerine section with me, not the dropped hammer or glass or wet washcloth or anything else negative. He’s my best friend. He doesn’t bug me about how terrible I am about keeping the laundry under control or about losing my hair clips or sunglasses or bringing home stray animals he never wanted.
None of us are perfect. We all make choices. We choose to laugh, let go and love.
Beautiful! I love that you found a way to love and be happy and not let the little things get in the way.
This comment is better than the article
Ouch!
But a tip of the cap to Christina, of course.
That is the point I’ve gotten to with my husband. He is the husband in this article, down to the exact reasons why he leaves the glass on the counter, lol. It still annoys me when he does it, or when he drapes his jacket over the chair instead of hanging it up. I still ask him to clean it up, but at the same time, I’ve learned to pick my battles and not get enraged over it when he forgets. It’s a lot more peaceful this way.
Peace is a very pale second to happiness.
Ditto! Thank you for sharing this perspective as well. It’s our second marriage as well. I have a different appreciation for what to address in a serious or playful manner, and also what to ignore. Our energies are well spent on making an effort, things that matter and at times, that is cleaning up a pile of clothes (or dishes) if it’s around “too long” by my definition. We understand each other’s need for love and respect. I know that nagging does us no good and does not make him hear me. We accept our imperfections and that we’re perfect for each other in our balance. You hit the nail on the head!
…and so, men need to learn EMPATHY. Shocking.
Lynda, I think you missed the point if that’s your conclusion.
“When you choose to love someone, it becomes your pleasure to do things that enhance their lives and bring you closer together, rather than a chore.”
You do things you don’t necessarily want to do because that’s the price of admission. Period. You don’t have to like doing it. You don’t have to understand it. You don’t have to feel like it’s bringing you closer to that person. You just do it because that’s what it costs to be with that person. So you do it and you accept it and you move on for as long as you are willing to pay the cost. You don’t have to have a happy song in your heart and turn your annoyances into pleasure in order to make a relationship last. What you do is say “Yes, it is annoying and not what I want to do but my partner also has to put up with my bullshit so I will put up with theirs”. What the author suggests is, in my view, entirely unhelpful and largely destructive because no matter how hard you try turn that frown upside down you are only repressing your emotions. You don’t have to vent them but you should at least accept them and place them in context. Relationships are hard. They really are. If they were easy every one of them would last forever. The author’s viewpoint, in my view, would only make them harder.
It is about looking at different point of views but if a partner NEEDS something, as mundane or ridiculous as the other may think it is – YOUR partner NEEDS something! If you actually care about them, you should TRY and give them what they need. If it’s a 4 second glass (or in my case) – to stop putting the clothes on top of all three baskets of the laundry bin, but actually push it in side (because it is breaking and it took me almost 2 years and 6 tries to find a laundry bin that fit for our family of six and limited space) – Just SHOW your partner you respect their needs and DO IT! Disrespect can lead to distrust. You CANNOT be in a partnership with someone you distrust… just saying.
This is a great piece.
Using your glass misstep as an example: what were to happen if you DID follow your wife’s prompt to put the glass in the sink…and then you STILL felt that she were truly making this a “big deal”? Whether you communicate this feeling to her or not, maybe you think she’s making a “mountain out of a molehill”, because, in her request for your small act of service (glass in the sink), she has tied such strong feelings to the connections in the relationship (mutual respect, adoration, acknowledgment of love). What dude wouldn’t see his wife (or any woman) as “blowing up” over something so small, regardless of whether the act of service was completed? Did you feel this way and only understand the importance to her POST-damage?
I ask this because, it seems that, even though a husband may complete the request for this…he may still not be able to relate to how it corresponds to a woman’s psyche and/or how it would make a woman feel about the relationship/connection with her man. This isn’t necessarily a complete negative, but the gap definitely needs to be bridged (communicated) somehow.
Well… my wife linked me to this article. I understand it COMPLETELY. But, what about the millions of times I have asked her to quit flicking cigarette ashes ALL OVER THE GARAGE FLOOR because it is the ONLY place I “sort of” have to call my own yet ZERO fucks given by her??? How many times have I told her how much it HURTS that she is a “closet hoarder” and every drawer in the house is so full of HER clutter if you can even get it open, you sure as hell can not close it yet ZERO fucks are given??? Shall I continue? Oh… I am the ONLY $$$ provider and I have bought her many coffee pots and a Keurig… but STILL she goes to Starbuck’s DAILY and buys $5 coffees. Shall I continue??? There are too many of these “isms” of her’s to even list here. So, in this article let’s replace “her” with “him” for a second. All that said… I DO NOT THINK I AM SOME INNOCENT ANGEL EITHER!!!
So, WHAT DO I DO???
Hey Jeffrey.
I 100-percent get what you’re saying. It’s valid and fair across the board. I can’t defend a spouse complaining to you about certain behaviors that are steeped in hypocrisy.
I guess I’d ask you to trust that this article could be written in a 180-degree role-reversal way for virtually every partnership.
The dish by the sink is a metaphor.
The ashes on the garage floor is a metaphor.
Wives blatantly disrespecting their husbands and marriages are obviously as EQUALLY shitty as husbands doing so.
The vast majority of things I write are first-person accounts of things I remember from my marriage that I believe culminated in my divorce.
And, in my experience, sharing these stories sometimes helps men rethink some of their beliefs and behaviors.
A lot of times, no one is “wrong.”
But when we don’t actively choose things that make our spouses feel respected and validated, everything breaks.
I hate divorce. I think it’s a very bad thing. I think I know why 70-80 percent of them occur. And I think it’s this very conversation we are having right now.
We don’t have to just stand around waiting for everything to suck and fall apart.
We can make a better choice. Every day, we can.
Thanks a lot for reading this and taking time to comment.
I divorced after 18 years, 3 kids and I am now an advocate for NO DIVORCE. Of course there are always “those” couples that need to divorce. I’m in a situation where if a score was kept… I would be on the winning side. Again, I have my “isms” and a lot of them. But I am honestly thinking… “why in the hell did you link me to a post that points out your issues way more than mine”. I think that might explain it. She’s not aware of her “isms” herself. One of the worst ones is her mother has this odd tendancy to waste a boat load of food. They ALL cook meals that would feed Ethiopia for a month and then leave it out and throw it away. I am like, ok, there went like $100 and hours of our lives we will never get back. But again, no change!
“A lot of times, no one is “wrong.”” And a lot of other times, someone IS wrong. I’m not about smoothing over misdeeds and bad behavior and pretending everything is blissful. Life is too damn short to put up with any shit that you don’t have to put up with. Call it like it is, cut your losses and get on with being happy without that anchor around your neck.
Strong boundaries are VERY important.
There’s a line. Everyone needs to decide where their personal line is.
I personally take the concept of marriage vows very seriously. That makes it tricky, sometimes. Especially with children.
But your general take is one I agree with.
Thank you for reading.
We’d need to see her side of the story. It sounds like by sending you a link to this article, she was making a passive aggressive statement. I first of all suggest you two rid yourselves of any passive aggression and talk it out. Don’t attempt to read her mind, don’t let her read yours, don’t read between lines, don’t accuse, don’t attack, reassure each other that you still like and love each other, just constructively criticize what the other person does that it imposing on your space and comfort. But from your comment I will say some things…
1. You have to explain the why’s to her, not just ‘because it’s my space’. Tell her she shouldn’t flick her cigarette ash on the garage floor because not only is it an issue of cleanliness, it’s an issue of fire hazard. The garage is still a part of the house.
2. She is allowed to buy stuff and have stuff. If she buys more physical items than you do of course she will have more stuff around the house. It’s not like she’s marking her territory. It is just as much her space as it is yours, even if you pay the rent/mortgage and bills. My boyfriend uses his money on buying games on Steam. I use my money to buy clothing, shoes, bags, etc. So yeah, my stuff takes up more space.
3. Never feel bitter because the financial weight pulled is uneven. It’s unfair unless your partner does absolutely nothing (like, they don’t even clean or cook). You need to find value in household work and maintenance. No one likes doing dishes, doing laundry, sweeping, mopping, vacuuming, dusting, taking out the garbage, cooking dinner, cleaning the counters, cleaning the bathroom, etc. Just because it takes place at home does not mean it’s leisurely.
4. If she is a hoarder, then that’s a whole issue outside of your relationship. Hoarding is a form of OCD, and it can also be a result of growing up in a family that did not respect personal belonging or space. If you truly believe she is a hoarder you need to convince her to seek professional help because hoarding, again, is a fire hazard, it’s an infestation risk, and it is a mold risk. It sounds like it’s really getting to you, and if you feel if this issue was dealt with it’d result in a happier marriage then it might be worth taking seriously and addressing.
5. Stop buying coffee makers for her if she doesn’t use them. Those things are novelty gimmicks anyway. Get her the basic necessities and call it good. My dad does this to my mom every Christmas and she feels bad telling him she doesn’t like them or want them, but she never uses them. If you are fully supporting her financially and you feel you guys can’t afford starbucks every day, then tell her she has got to stop and if she doesn’t you might have to limit her funds so that the bills can get paid. If this is purely out of annoyance because you’re just anti Starbucks and how much their coffee costs, that’s kind of unfair for her. That’s being more dictating than anything. However, if it turns out she is a hoarder, limiting her access to your money until she can change her habits might be a good idea. But you will need to talk to her about this, don’t just surprise her and let her find out the hard way. That is passive aggressive.
There might be more to what she does for you that you aren’t recognizing. And maybe reminding yourself of everything she’s done for you will lighten up your bitterness. It’s easy to dismiss the person who does the household work because it doesn’t bring in money, but it is quite the job to take care of a home.
I completely get what he is saying, and I appreciate him so much for saying it!
There is a somewhat opposite yet related perspective that I have been trying to live by. Like everything, it goes in and out of my awareness. It is a marriage philosophy (horribly called, and with a fucking rose on the book cover) The Surrendered Wife, by Laura Doyle. (It isn’t about BDSM). In a nutshell, it’s about how women tend to try and control everything in their lives, including their kids and spouse, and we become exhausted, and often the husband and kids don’t follow orders anyway, so it’s all wasted effort. The book advocates wearing ‘duct tape’ and keeping your mouth shut about all the little things, or, to quote this guy’s blog post, ‘You take an otherwise peaceful evening and have an argument with him, and tell him how he’s getting something wrong and failing you.’
In this Surrendered philosophy, maintaining harmony is more important than how the towels were folded, or if the kids were bathed. If you ask for something and it isn’t delivered, that is one thing, yet many women don’t ask, and like this dude says, men aren’t psychic. I have had to learn to ask for what I need, in many areas of my life. The most important part of this philosophy is self-care. It advocates doing at least three things for yourself everyday. As women, wives and mothers, we often give ourselves away, and we are so depleted that it feels like everyone and everything is simply more work for us to do. If we take impeccable care of ourselves, and work to arrange our lives to make this possible, we will have a better ‘battery charge’ and our loved ones’ behavior won’t seem so bad. Examples of self-care:
1. Lunch with a friend (where you air your grievances about your brood, by noting victories, which are times you used your duct tape and kept your cool, thereby keeping harmony, and you also discuss your challenges, the things that drive you batty).
2. Watch a music video or three online, see what those people/dancers look like in that vid.
3. Have your coffee or tea while staring into space or doing absolutely anything else you want, without interruption.
4. Go to the health club.
5. You get the idea, whatever recharges you may be completely different for someone else.
There’s a lot more, like how to know if you’re with an abusive man and when you shouldn’t stay (important). And honestly some of the book is completely cringe-worthy and has a God component that’s a little too strong for me, but I wanted to share.
This shit is hard!
And then there’s also this: https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_the_secret_to_desire_in_a_long_term_relationship?language=en
Recharging your batteries is great, but not by airing your dirty laundry to your friend at lunch. That is not respecting your husband in any way. The lunch with a friend can be a recharge, but not if you use it the wrong way.
Respect must go both ways in a relationship.
I do agree that both sides need to remember that the other person is not psychic. Sometimes you feel like your partner knows you so well that they should know what you are feeling at any given moment, but they don’t necessarily. If you don’t speak your desires out loud, they will never be known. However, choosing what battles are important may also be wise. Does it really matter that your husband didn’t put the glass away or is something else about that bothering you? If it’s about respect, then say it is…but we need to first recognize that is what is bothering us about the glass being left on the counter, and that is not always easy to do.
Reblogged this on All about life and makeup talks and commented:
things are really happening why would I divorce my husband because he left dishes by the sink that is really crazy what do you guys think
Great read looking forward to reading more.
A friend who resonated with your post sent it to me for commiseration. That will be tough because I do not think you have really gotten to the core of the disconnect. Can respect genuinely coexist with disdain? The metaphorical glass is referred to as a “bullshit” issue and your wife’s concern over it is maintained as “irrational” throughout the piece. That seems more like a recipe for building resentment. The blame for the problem is still being laid very much at the feet of the woman.
I would respectfully suggest that you’ve misread what I wrote, OR that I did a really bad job writing it.
Fact: Husbands GENERALLY believe something like a glass being by the sink is no big deal. And that by virtue of them being married to their wives and pledging lifelong love and togetherness, feel that they should not be criticized and made to feel inadequate for something that–to husbands–feels petty and meaningless. After all, it’s just a glass by the sink.
This post was an attempt to help husbands who behave and feel as I once did in my marriage, conclude that those beliefs about the glass (IF their wives have mentioned it more than once and suggested it causes pain) are mistaken as soon as their wives say it hurts.
This isn’t about a man thinking fights about dirty dishes are irrational and/or bullshit.
This is about a man NOT BELIEVING that his wife feels pain (or that she’s “allowed” to) over a glass, because he can’t logically connect something so seemingly minor to him as something pain-inducing.
“It wouldn’t hurt me, so it shouldn’t hurt you!”
And just like that, he deprives her of her “right” to feel something she naturally felt.
When you do that enough times, LOVE DIES. And marriages and relationships end.
And I don’t think most men guilty of this behavior truly understand that. That this thing not registering on their emotional radar WILL end their marriage one day after enough pinpricks pile up to equal a gushing wound.
I was hoping this example might help some people draw the same conclusions I did.
Ruining relationships over dirty dishes seems like a pretty terrible idea.
Thanks for reading.
Agreed. Thank you for clarifying. To your point, I’m not really your audience, which is primarily other men.
My female (married) peers are well-educated, have a career/profession that takes much more than 40 hrs a week and typically make more money than their spouses. These enlightened and empowered women are still carrying the weight of home and child care. It’s maddening to witness.
Your take in this blog moves things in the right direction and that is an inherently good thing!
Awesome of you to write back and say so. Thank you very much for taking time out of your life to read and comment here.
Yep, totally in this situation right now. Love is dead, hope is gone, divorce is on the horizon. Repeated arguments for years with nothing changing. Going out on a date isn’t going to help at this point, the hole is huge. How do you fix it? We never wanted our kids to come from a broken family.
There’s also the added aspect of the patriarchal culture which believes that doing dishes is women’s work. As in, women do the work for no pay, and men have a right to expect to be served. So to me, it does seem a bigger deal than just being inconsiderate.
The expectation of male privilege was kind of astounding to me when it showed up in my marriage – not in the least because we had discussed gender roles at length before we got married, and we’d lived together… and then suddenly he wanted to be able to assert some kind of man of the house role which I never signed up for. (This happened to a number of women of around the same age – we all thought we’d negotiated something like equality. Most worked out something they could live with, but it was a rude surprise for almost everyone. And seriously, this wasn’t my ex’s greatest problem.)
I could understand that he was tired, frustrated, insecure, and sometimes felt powerless. He totally had my sympathy and support on those. Where he lost it was when he tried to regain it by stepping on me. Some things we could find reasonable answers for – that I am the kind of person who puts in a twelve hour day and then comes home and makes a lasagne to de-stress, while he pretty much did nothing around the house ever was largely fixable by him hiring housekeepers out of his discretionary funds. (Housekeepers cost less and save more marital friction than you probably imagine. This was wonderful. Seriously, if you both work and are butting heads over housework issues, and can afford it at all, make it a priority.)
The constant status games, though, were pretty awful. My housework should be worth less than his, because I enjoyed it. (Okay, in that case I did retort that much of mine was skilled labor and had higher market value.) That my job was less important (even though my job bought the house, paid most of the bills, and kept him in health insurance. Which was a horrible double bind – pointing this out seemed to be rubbing his nose in my own comparative professional success, but then, it’s not like I brought it up.) He tried to claim that I should have dinner on the table half an hour after we got home from work – not that there was even an agreement that I should cook, not that I was working any less than him. (I laughed and told him he could get his own dinner in that case.) I should cook what he wanted me to cook. (No. But he could ask, nicely. I like cooking for people. I will usually try to make things other people enjoy, because I like seeing people enjoy my food. Just remember that no one owns me or my labor, and put the dishes in the dishwasher if that’s what we’ve agreed on, and we’re good. And a few compliments will have me making something fancy the next night! I’m so easy.) I “should” be worse than him at computers and martial arts, because I have so many other skills. (Look, you don’t get to a priori say you’re going to be better than me at the two main things we share. You get to practice and be as good as you are, and I’m not going to pretend to be less because your masculinity is so fragile, though I’ll be polite and not make a fuss about how good I am because no one needs that shit.) (Also, I can not tell you how depressing it was to have women of a generation older tell me that I should pretend to be less competent to make him feel better about himself. “Because men are babies like that.” And people say feminists have a lousy opinion of men!)
… Even writing this is kind of like setting up the train wreck that was to come, isn’t it? I guess I could add that he tried hitting me (that bit about being better at martial arts? Totally not better at martial arts, even when catching me unawares. Also, I won’t live with someone who is likely to hit me. Aiee.)
But as I said, my ex was the extreme case – but a couple years into marriage having a spouse suddenly start expecting you to take on all the traditional women’s roles seemed to be a pretty major thing for a lot of the women I know.
This is utter nonsense. If a marriage is dependent on whether one puts a glass into a dishwasher or puts away some clothes or some other minor irritant then there are bigger problems in paradise than these objective signs. I long ago let go of such expectations from my spouse and likewise he has of me. Our focus is more on the emotional side: trust, respect, love, being there, support, etc. Not whether chores were done or some one made a mess. Our children teach us this all the time. As adults we have habits and they do not all need to changed to make one person or the other happy. If you truly love some one, you love them for the way they are, not the way you are or want them to be!!
Psssssssst. METAPHOR.
Thanks for reading!
I just stumbled across this and might I say I completely understand. In my house according to my wife EVERYTHING HAS A PLACE no if and/or buts about it. She will move things that I momentarily put down and not say a word about it until in upset because I can’t find it.
The thing between my wife and I is we have been in a completely broken relationship to the point of her hating me saying I never want to see you again. All over what I thought was completely trivial things and it didn’t really matter what I said it was done. I spent months reading and seeking help from mentors, friends, and pastors. Going to events about stronger marriages or lasting relationships and finally I get some slack.
We spent some time talking and I had learned I made just as big a deal about not doing things as she made about them being done so we were incessantly locked in a struggle of who was right and wrong. We fought in such an ugly way it caused not only hurt but anger and physical illness. IT WAS AWFUL but we kept going at it. She’s left me a couple times for some of the same issues and it completely blind sided me because I never knew what I was doing to upset her. I was never told until there was so much there she couldn’t even formulate an expressing for how she felt.
It’s been a short 3 years so far but we have learned so much about how to talk when it’s important and when to even express needs. We rarely ever argue anymore and when we do it’s resolved faster than we ever thought we could manage. It’s honestly blissful thank God. Some things that stood out the most that we learned is
1. a couple can not rely solely on the other for happiness people are not perfect therefore will not deliver happiness as much as you want.
2. You can’t expect anything out of the other. I don’t say this to seem like the other is just worthless you just can’t expect anything out of. Im saying this because if you don’t walk around expecting “that glass to be put in the sink” you can’t be hurt or disrespected when it’s not.
3. You’re not wrong, you’re different!
Those long nights we spent aching absolutely sick despising one another because we were so bent on being right. Yea all completely avoidable, I wasn’t wrong because I didn’t put my shoes away that I was going to put right back on. She wasn’t wrong for putting them away! We’re simply different and it took us forever to develop the mindset to allow for our little differences.
4. Men need respect to feel loved. Women need love to feel respected. A man doesn’t always see being mushy and melded as one as being loved but you tell him I’m so thankful for all you do for me and this family he’ll know he’s loved. A woman doesn’t always see being told I appreciate you or seeing her man doing needed fix it chores around the house as being respected but you snuggle up close, do those little things she always has to do, and let her know she’s loved and she’ll feel respected.
5. This one ties in to 4 but it still made an impact. A respected man will make it a point to love his woman, and a loved woman will make it a point to respect her man.
6. MAKE TIME! I’ll stop with this one because my wife is up cooking and running errands the whole time I’ve spent typing this on my phone so I want to go help her. But if you value your marriage of you treasure your wife or husband do yourselves a gigantic, problem solving, life easing favor make time for one another. No I try, no I just don’t have the free time, none of that stuff just make the time it makes a massive difference.
Sorry for the typos and probably horrific grammar as I can only see a few lines above this haha! I hope someone can take away from this what I was able to to not only save a marriage or relationship but build one beyond their imagination. 🙂
Can I honestly say, as a woman, that I find this a horrible depiction of what a wife/woman should expect from marriage. I completely see where you are coming from…that you wanted to please your wife, but goodness divorce over dirty dishes? My husband leaves dishes soaking with yucky food bits in the sink, and I hate it. I forget to clean out the cat litter and he hates it. We drive each other crazy with the things that we do/forget to do, but at the end of the day we didn’t marry each other because we can do things exactly the way each other wants and we never have to feel uncomfortable or annoyed.
I don’t forget to change the cat litter because I don’t respect him. I forget because it literally makes me gag and I also just forget sometimes. And he leaves dishes to soak in the sink because that’s how he does dishes…and it doesn’t make him gag to see bits of food swirling around in murky water. (Yes…lots of things make me gag.)
Now I’ll be honest and say that there was a period of time when he was working 2nd shift and I would forget to make sure he had something for dinner. He does most of our cooking, so this isn’t a “the women cooks the food’ scenario, it was a respect/thinking about his needs scenario, and after I did that quite a few times he got upset and called me on it. And I realized that I needed to think about his needs more. But he wasn’t going to divorce me over it. Or over the cat litter. And I’m not going to divorce him over the swirling bits of food in the sink. Because we give each other grace…and that should be something everyone vows to do on their wedding day.
You certainly can say it, Mandy. But I don’t think you understood me very well.
My wife didn’t leave because of the dirty dish even though my headline says she did. Symbolism and hyperbole are at play there.
She left me for MANY reasons that are well-documented on this blog (I had no idea a million strangers were going to read this!), all of which were rooted in my beliefs and behavior while we were married.
OF COURSE your husband wouldn’t leave you for not making him dinner or changing the cat litter. That’s insane.
But he might leave you if you said “I don’t love and respect you” every day for two years.
And my contention is that (post your wife crying and trying to explain how something hurts even though the husband might not get it) leaving that glass by the sink is not so different than saying that very thing: “I don’t love and respect you.”
I’m sorry I didn’t more effectively communicate this point in the actual post.
And I’m sorry you consider it a horrible depiction of what marriage should be.
Because I must vehemently disagree.
CHOOSING to intentionally behave in ways you know to lift up your spouse and demonstrate your love and commitment to them is EXACTLY what marriage should be about.
Yup. Your last sentence = bingo. My now-husband and I read the Five Love Languages when we got engaged, and that’s when his perspective finally began to shift and began to understand where I was coming from when I was nagging at him about the dishes or laundry or whatever. He’s gotten sooooo much better about being proactive about chores and picking up after himself. He’s still not perfect by any means, and there are some days I want to scream when I see that he’s thrown his jacket over the chair again, but because of the progress he has made, I’m a lot more forgiving over his slip-ups than I used to be, and we fight a lot less.
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This is great. I really appreciate the insight, and I know if I posted this to my FB wall now, I’d probably have a dozen butthurt comments about how “it’s not ALL the men’s fault,” but they would be missing the point. WHen a man says “just tell me and I’ll do it,” not only has that not been my experience (it almost always gets “forgotten,”) it IS exhausting and I DON’T want to have to parent my husband. As to the glass at the sink, it’s not the glass, it’s more that if you (I use “you” in the general sense, not YOU specifically) don’t take the four seconds to put it in the dishwasher, where it ultimately needs to go, SHE has to do it. You are making whatever jobs she does at home harder because she has to clean up after you as well her regular chores. Also basically it’s like saying your four seconds are more important than hers. I dunno. I have these conversations with my husband about helping me now and then without me having to specifically ask. It doesn’t happen. Then I ask. And he forgets. Or puts it off (literally three days one time). And so when I finally get irritated, because now it’s a matter of principal (and respect) as you said, *I* feel like a nag and I hate feeling that way. I like this article because it DOESN’T cast anyone as a villain, but strives to give another point of view of why a person may feel as they do.
Thank you.
You’re reinforcing my belief that the vast majority of marriages end because of unintentional missteps.
Good men. Good women. Just getting things wrong because they didn’t know any better.
I thought this example shone a little light on one tiny aspect of how this happens.
I’m a little confused as to how so many people seem to be missing the bird’s-eye view. But I suppose I shouldn’t be.
More than half of EVERYONE who PURPOSEFULLY volunteered to get married, ends up not married.
Statistically speaking, this post should make zero sense to more than half of every reader.
Ha! Applying good ol’ math to relationships. I fear it is futile, my friend. lol. But I think a lot of it has to do with ego and the penchant (especially nowadays) for everyone to feel, as you said, entitled and defensive… I learned a lot of from previous bad relationships too, some abusive, what it worth an argument and what is worth leaving over.
“Statistically speaking, this post should make zero sense to more than half of every reader.” Ha ha ha, that looks about right!
This could be me talking about my marriage. It is nice to know I am not crazy and I am not alone.
You’re definitely not crazy. I have talked with enough female friends to know that! It’s almost never “the glass” after the first time we ask.
*principle
Put the glass away and not make a big deal out of it. There are much more problems in this world.
Who? Me? Does that extend to picking up dirty underwear too? Because for every thing I pick up after my husband, I get closer to the door. I’m not his mother, and I will find someone who wants an equal partner, and not a mother.
(shrug)
Thankfully my husband is man enough to try to treat me right, make me feel valued, and listen to me express my feelings without undermining them by saying they’re trivial or about trivial things.
Way to miss the point dear. It’s not about the glass…
This is the reason I got divorced, non specifically obviously. But I’m not sure my ex understands this to this day. And honestly I don’t believe he would have ever “changed” enough for me to be really happy with him ever. It is about expectations. My parents were a very balanced team and my dad dies a good job spoiling my mom as well as providing financially and doing al the yard work without being asked. My ex was completely incapable of doing any of those three things… So I felt unloved and sad most of the time. In my mind I shouldn’t have to spell that out to him… He was the man and it was his job and I’m not his mother. And I’m certainly not going to ask someone to spoil me… He should want to, right? Anyway, now I’m remarried and this article helped me with some issues that I’m having with my husband. A lot of times we don’t know how to talk to one another so things go unsaid. This helped me to find the words to explain a few minor things to him… So that they don’t become major things 🙂 Thank you for writing this 🙂
Agree with everything said here… I just didn’t have the strength, stamina, and prescience to do all the things that Mattered. I’m hoping my kids and friends learn this lesson earlier than I did (like before the ‘I do’).
and maybe nothing will ever make her happy….because if it wasn’t the glass, it would be something else…..js
I’m not married but the most common unexpected advice I’ve heard from married couples is to embrace not only our partner’s strengths, but to respect their weaknesses as well. This is not to say that if you’re messy your partner should just put up with it. But you both need to respect that your partner is the way they are, and a compromise might benefit the both of you. My boyfriend covers the rent and most bills so I cover the cleaning and cooking. I am I guess what you could call a Type A personality, I thrive and find it easier to relax when things are clean and organized (but I’m not a neat freak either). My boyfriend is definitely the messy one and he doesn’t clean after himself very well. I have to nag him to take out the garbage. Why do I nag him? Because the garbage is building up, I’m running out of space to throw stuff out and soon the apartment will start to stink. Same thing with dishes and why people like to get them done. We need dishes to use, and the longer dishes sit around the smellier it gets. This also attracts fruit flies and ants and potential for mold. That’s why some people are insistent on regular cleanliness. The messy one should be able to understand this and respect this and appreciate that someone is doing it because no one finds cleaning fun. However, it is also unfair for someone who is just naturally a tidy and clean person to expect someone who was not instilled with such habits to just up and develop such habits because they want them to.
I honestly have no problem cleaning up after my boyfriend. But I expect him to appreciate it, be grateful, and be willing to help me on occasion. And if he ever dismissed what I do around the house and acted as if he didn’t appreciate it, he would indeed get a mouth full from me.
Show respect for your loved one by simply being grateful and appreciative for what they do for you, even if it really isn’t a concern for you. Both of you do more for each other than you both realize. It won’t be 50/50 with each individual task but the overall load in your life together and household is.
I say this as someone who got married once and is still married 16 years later, despite going through some tremendously difficult times and spending years locked in an unhealthy dynamic that both my husband and I are both working very hard (and successfully) to improve: most of human interaction isn’t really about what’s “fair.” It’s about meeting needs, and it is up to each person to determine what he or she needs. It’s not up to us to decide what someone else should or shouldn’t need. Because why “shouldn’t” they? Says who?
Sometimes people change. Sometimes needs change. And with the exception of a parent toward a minor child, no human “owes” a relationship to any other human. My husband could tell me today that he has just simply had enough and, for what I consider a minor reason or even no reason at all, he could file for divorce. As could I. And as long as we both have that ability, that is as fair as it gets. It might sound harsh, but if I am not meeting my husband’s needs, then I don’t WANT him to stay with me. Because I love him, as a person, more than I love our relationship.
Ironically, now that I have come to the point where the vows I made are meaningless to me, I find that I am beginning to value our relationship and my husband more—because we aren’t relying on words we said 16 years ago to keep us together. We are relying on the current state of our relationship. This isn’t going to be everyone’s truth, but it is mine.
This relationship came to an end because both parties are emotionally immature, not because the wife was angry at the glass in the sink or because he couldn’t please her every need. These are just symptoms of an underlying problem.
To the man in this article: stop making it all about HER, start by making it about the BOTH OF YOU. Learn empathic communication (a.k.a. Marshall Rosenberg’s non-violent communication) and practice it. The only issue here is that you both did not talk about your needs, you only focused on the symptoms.
You’re totally right!
This applies to everyone. But I don’t preach to women and mothers and wives because I’ve never walked in their shoes before.
I only know what it’s like to be a husband.
Secondly, YES. Empathetic communication. Of course. The average guy playing Call of Duty while his wife puts the kids to bed, or drinking beer in the recliner on college football Saturday has NO IDEA what that means or is likely to research Marshall Rosenberg.
But just MAYBE, something a regular guy says about dirty dishes might make a connection for him.
That’s why I write.
Thank you for reading.
my husband is retired. i’m still working full time. my job is stressful. when i get home and the dishes are piled up in the sink or counter (we don’t have a dishwasher), i get pissed. he is home all damn day. i work full time. do all the errands. pay all the bills, keep track of the checking account, run a small business on the side. and he thinks it’s no big deal that the dishes and house is a mess. yes, i’m pissed and tired and want to smack and leave him. i need the damn kitchen clean to run my business and i’m fucking exhausted!! no respect is what i feel. yes, it’s a marriage breaker.
I think your right about most of this except peole do choose whether or not to be hurt/bothered by things. I mean I choose whether something bothers me and the level at which it bothers me. Like a fly buzzing around or a giant asteroid fixing to hit me. We choose how much to allow things to bother us.
If we are to show understanding without knowing why something may upset or significant other, then we should recurve the same understanding in return, which is probably not going to happen. So in this I gather the reasons your wife left, but how long could you have put up with doing stuff like this before you might of decided on leaving her?
My husband and I have been together for 10 yrs and married 7 1/2 yrs. there are thins that do that annoys him such as leave bags of yarn everywhere. He annoys me with the dishes by putting them in the sink rather than the dishwasher.
My pet peeve is that we have a housemate. We also have 3 dogs and 3 cats. In the winter we use pee pads because it gets very cold here. The pet peeve is the guys just walk on the pads whether the urine or after a bowel movement…can’t believe how much the dogs go to the bathroom….lol. I’m the one constantly changing them and I have health issues where I’m actually not supposed to be dealing with pee pads or the litter box.
I just wanted to leave some love. I’m surprised by the number of people who are taking this so literally that a dirty dish can end a marriage. You expressed your metaphor VERY well. Great read. I really appreciate this piece. I just ended a three year relationship last July, and I can’t help but feel like I should forward this to him. Probably a bad idea.
Your specific choice in metaphor wouldn’t necessarily apply, and I’m not positive HE would translate the metaphor to our life. I was probably the one more likely to leave a dirty dish, lol, but I changed at his request. I DID work at making sure I minimized those things he disliked and listened when he had something to say that might have felt critical of me. And I worked at it. But whenever I did or asked the same of him, I see what you explained. As a man who thrives on respect, he wanted me to see that his perspective was right, when that’s not really what mattered to me, which ultimately lead to that disrespect. And I did communicate. I said, “This is what I need… I’m trying to explain what I need from you.” Then I would explain how it made me feel without it. Yet the easiest thing I could have said was that it felt like disrespect, and that probably would have made a lot more sense to him.
Ah, well… Maybe next time I’ll just have this post on hand it hand it over. :o)
Thank you very much for writing this. It’s extremely thoughtful. It’s nice to see that there really is hope that a guy could “get me.”
Enjoyed and so true. My get my husband to read!
The article is spot-on; in a nutshell, it all comes down to having an attitude of serving the one you love. If both husband & wife have a servant’s heart towards each other, these things are not allowed to become an issue.
My hubby & I have been married for 29 years. It’s not always been perfect, by any means. We almost went off the rails about 14 years ago…because we put ourselves first & not each other. Instead of looking at all the things I thought he needed to change about himself, I looked at what I needed to change about me. It caused him to do the same.
I am not responsible for what he does, but I am responsible for how I respond. I can say that at 29 years & counting, and having raised 3 children, we are just as good of friends & just as much in love as we were when we married…and now we have an even deeper connection.
Also, read The Five Love Languages. It is a great way to learn about the best way to speak your spouse’s “love language.”
From a woman who’s been married 40 years…what is ultimately important?
My husband does not and never will organize the garage, paint any room in our home, caulk a window or bathtub, or change the oil in one of our vehicles. We spent the first five years of our marriage arguing about idiotic stuff like that because I emphasized what he didn’t do more than what he did do.
When it was almost too late I finally got it! He did have a strong work ethic. He changed diapers, gave baths, wrestled in the floor, ran races, read to and listened to a couple of little boys even after a full day at work. He did support my desire to homeschool our boys when I could have gotten a job and helped with additional income. He did coach tee-ball, softball, and soccer (which he didn’t know anything about). He attended a thousand swim practices and hundreds of swim meets.
He held me when we lost our home and I had to walk away from 10 years of marks on the closet wall recording the growth of my sons over the years. He held me when I should have been holding him, he held me when my brother died, and we hold each other as we grieve over the death of one of our sons.
What is ultimately important? Is it the glass on the counter or the man holding you together when you are close to falling apart? Who do you want by your side when things get REALLY difficult, and I promise you they will. Make a list of what is important, good, and worthy in your spouse and concentrate on those things. Oh, and put the stupid glass in the dishwasher if it makes you that crazy!
Besides the valid points you make, the glass on the sink also sends this message to a woman: “I am so much more important than you are that I can leave this glass here, expecting you to clean up after me like the unimportant slave that you are. You exist only to serve me. Don’t ever expect me to do even the smallest, easiest thing that you ask me to do.”
This might not be the intended message, but it is the message that is delivered nonetheless.
What about the man, who when at his mothers hangs his coat first thing, but when home hangs it over any old post, chair, etc. despite the wife’s desires to have the coats hung up (it’s the first thing she does when walking in the door, coat hung and shoes in closet) and he is the first one to complain about the house being messy and yell because no one picks up their stuff? With 4 children who are modeling after one of us what is best then? When the husband is perfectly capable, does it in front of others but won’t for his families sake. This is the point that I believe Matt is referring to. Where is the respect in this situation?
Thank you so much for sharing these insights.
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Good points here. What many men don’t seem to get is that just saying “I don’t think this is important” doesn’t make it unimportant. If one person on the team has an issue, the team has an issue, no way around it. Pretending it doesn’t exist doesn’t make it disappear.
And, in the case of my ex husband, he thought that because he did (eventually) what I asked him to do, he was being an equal partner. He took responsibility for exactly nothing other than earning half of the income, I shouldered 100% of the responsibility at home and in child rearing, while working full-time. But because if I said “Babe can you go to the grocery store tonight” he would (usually three days later because “you’re not the boss of me”), he saw himself as being a partner. He could never understand that I wanted him to be RESPONSIBLE for some of these things, rather than “helping me” with them. That I didn’t want to always have to ask him to do things (often many times over) to get them done. I didn’t want to be the boss. I wanted a partner.
In the end I think he understood, and promised to change, but I didn’t want to be in a relationship I had to threaten to leave to get anything to change.
I so resonate with this comment!
And I saw no mention of the toilet seat.
Thank you for this article. It gives me hope that “some” people get it eventually. I especially love this comment of yours: “And I don’t think most men guilty of this behavior truly understand that. That this thing not registering on their emotional radar WILL end their marriage one day after enough pinpricks pile up to equal a gushing wound.” I used a very similar metaphor to try to explain to my husband that every time he hurt me and told me I had no right to those feelings, it left a scar and I was so covered with scars that it had damaged my ability to fully function in life. He never did get it.
I also liked the comment by alienredqueen. Yes, I was exhausted, depleted, following him around “doing” for him.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. In our house it’s my frustration about the laundry. For him, it’s my odd sleep schedule. But we are still talking and not yelling and trying. For those that don’t get the metaphor, I don’t care that he doesn’t vacuum or cook. But the laundry thing gets to me. I’ve asked for help with it for years. We’ve fought about it. There are 6 of us for goodness sake. If I came home and he had done 3 loads of laundry……best gift ever. It’s an acknowledgement of what matters to the other person, even if it doesn’t matter to you.
if every body was perfect what would there be to argue about.if he leaves an empty glass so what .did your vowsay put everything back after you use it or put it in its right place NO so do what your doing and love one another we aren’t gonna be here forever
This is so well written and relatable! Thank you!
There’s one thing I have never understood. If where a glass goes after you’re done using is such a minor thing — which is the argument made throughout this piece — then why is it a big deal to put in the dishwasher instead of on the counter? Obviously leaving the glass by the sink is important to you on some level because if it truly didn’t matter in the scheme of things where the glass ended up then you would put it in the dishwasher instead when asked, no? Instead, you want to argue about it, move it under protest, etc., etc.
So, the glass being left on the counter is important to you. The issue is getting to the why. But in the meantime, referring to it as ‘no big deal’ or ‘minor’ – out loud or in your head — is really just a way to be able to continue doing whatever you want with the added bonus of making your wife feel like she’s crazy to be caring/upset/talking about it. Trying to not do that, I understand, is really the point of your piece, and I think that’s great. But I just don’t think the wife is the one — or the only one, if you want to make that argument — making a big deal out of nothing here.
Does NO one get the part about “I might want to use it again.”? Which is both handier and on some level more efficient (re-using the glass rather than getting another one is one less glass to wash, overall). Why is his desire to possibly re-use the glass less important than her OCD–sorry “feeling” about putting it in the dishwasher?
The glass eventually becomes a metaphor for other things. In my opinion.
Matt, you helped me understand myself and why certain things bother me so much– and it is exactly like you say! It is Not about the dish ( why can’t readers get this???) but the fact that a request is being blown off, which for some ( me ), is a slap in the face. He wants the house company ready all the time but won’t do all the little things that make that easier for me to accomplish?
I believe you did exactly what you intended to, and it will be heard by those who can relate….
It’s nice to read such a thoughtful and well-writing post. I found this book to be a help for me: After the Ecstasy, the Laundry: How the Heart Grows Wise on the Spiritual Path by Jack Kornfield.
Someone shared this on Facebook and I read it and started to cry, because like millions of other women, this sounds exactly like us. My husband came into the room, saw me crying, rolled his eyes grabbed a box of crackers and went back into the computer room to play more video games.
I am always the one to apologize after a fight. I apologize for being too emotional, for nagging, for making a big deal out of nothing, as he sees it. Like you’ve said I’ve tried to explain that it’s not the dirty dishes or that he sits and watches TV and looks at his phone while I run around and make breakfast and lunches and get kids dressed to go to school and get myself ready for work while also throwing in a load of laundry and empty the dishwasher, or that I have to tell him every time to take out the garbage cans or to hang the wet towels. It’s because it makes me feel alone. Like I’m the only one responsible for our home, our kids, our life while he’s just along for the ride. I pay the taxes. I am the breadwinner. I support him while he works and takes online classes. I know he has his own worries and stuff but meanwhile the kids and I are on our own here. I can’t think of anything he’s completely in charge of. Something he does that doesn’t depend on my involvement. He thinks he’s doing me a favor by asking me what I want all the time. “Or else you’ll get mad.” He doesn’t get that I want to rely on him. I want to trust him to take care of us.
I left my home and family and friends in beautiful nothing California to move to Illinois because of his job. A job he hates. I have no one. No family. Few friends. He has his parents here and his oldest friends. He refuses to leave. I mourn that I am raising kids without my parents, their aunts and uncles and cousins. All of this compounds my resentment. My deep and profound disappointment. I have been let down so many times that even when he does do something nice or helpful I have to force myself to be grateful. I try to hide my bitterness but I know he sees it. And my lack of appreciation only serves to confirm his feelings of inadequacy and so further apart wet drift.
I don’t dream of other men. I already concluded that any future relationships would be the same. Instead I fantasize about being alone. Just me and the kids. Because at least I can’t be disappointed if there’s no one to depend on.
I know he loves his kids. That taking the kids and going home to California would break him. And them. It’s probably not legal anyway. So then I’d be divorced and alone in Illinois!?
And so I keep trying. Keep promising not to get mad. Keep trying to suck it up and pretend my heart isn’t broken.
That is so sad, and I think a lot of us women can relate at least in part to this. 🙁
You hit the nail on the head when you wrote that it is exhausting for the woman to find herself playing mother, constantly explaining to the man what he needs to do to please her, or simply to help the household run smoothly. Example – I like to cook, but I also like a break, therefore my partner cooks two nights per week. However, he always needs to ask me what to make, or forgets to buy his ingredients, or needs cooking advice. So I am not really free of the meal burden for those two nights. What should be a mutually happy arrangement ends up being a grumpy exchange.
At first, I was going to disagree with you about this kind of behaviour making the woman feel unsafe, or at least insecure, but actually, you are right, I think it does. It must be even worse if the woman is planning/forced to share parenting with that man, or, as in my case is getting older and is financially dependent on him.
I didn’t read all the comments, but I read just enough to get annoyed that no one was following your metaphor. As long as no one in the marriage recognizes the glass is a metaphor, things will suck.
I get it. You’re right. And I think it’s deeply rooted in misogyny that both men AND women have internalized–often without knowing it. Thanks for writing this. It is crazy making to be told, “It is unreasonable to be bothered by this thing and so therefore your pain is irrational and not important to me.” It feels gross and is a total love-killer. You nailed it.
This post is too funny… EVERYTHING listed here is a symptom of something else. Please learn to peel a few layers away to get to your eventual item to solve/heal. sheesh people…
I can’t tell whether you got it, or didn’t get it. But, no matter! Your comment is 100-percent accurate.
Thanks for reading.
This is a super long read, but may I suggest you check it out? I think the glass is a lot about emotional labor: http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor
I couldn’t explain it to my husband because I didn’t know how to put it in words. Thank you so much for this!
This article was full of wisdom and insight. If I had to pick one thing that I also learned the hard way, that understanding now has helped, it would be one idea: guys, ladies, we do NOT have to understand why something is important to our partners. And it need not be something that will ever, in a million years, matter to us. Instead, we have to do associative emo-math (think Venn diagrams): “It is important to her. She is important to me. Therefore it is important to me. Q.E.D.”
Obviously there are people who will fall into an extreme where a partner’s every whim and opinion are valued over one’s own opinions and desires, and that’s not good. But accepting that somethings will never matter to you as they do to her, or vice versa, and just agreeing to disagree on the idea’s merits while focusing on the partner’s value will go a long, long way. It works for us, anyway.
I think you just explained something I think and write often much more clearly and awesomely than I ever have.
Thank you very much for seeing this as it was intended.
bingo! I feel like I can live with my husband for the next 100 200 years because of this. he didn’t have to do the dishes for me last night after driving in los angeles traffic coming home from work, but he did because he knew how important it was for me to be able to relax the next morning instead of doing dishes. I encouraged him to buy fallout 4 because I know he loves gaming so much although I know it might be taking time away from me. so the dishes were not ‘done right’ but who cares? I ask him to help with the kids if it gets too much while he is gaming but he is right there for me.
understanding this, it’s a gift that keeps on giving.
This article (and the comments) are the reason I’ll never get married again. The benefits of marriage could never outweigh the disappointment and heartbreak that comes with it.
I was feeling that was too during the first 6-12 months, post-divorce.
But then I started thinking about long-term companionship (we lie to ourselves when we think we can die alone and happy in our twilight years), and also the macro-problem of human reproduction.
Unless you are one of those “The world is already too full of people; we should discourage reproduction!” people, it’s not, in my estimation, wise to intentionally leave child raising to unmarried people. The benefits of having good mothers AND fathers at home are well documented.
So, while I respect your personal choice on this (and remember feeling the same way just under three years ago), I think a better solution is simply to make marriage NOT suck.
None of this shit has to exist.
We can just do things optimally.
I’m so confused about why people don’t want to.
Thank you for reading and commenting.
Love is the best thing we can ever experience. I, too, have known excruciating heartbreak. More than I thought I’d ever recover from. It’s already years later, and I’m not going to be “okay” for years to come. But I have hope. I’ll find someone else. Someone better. Someone who deserves me and cherishes me. You can find that too! Don’t give up on hope. You, too, friend, will find love again. And it will be worth it!!! 🙂
This is very much what broke up my marriage in combination with some unrealistic expectations on his part. Forget by the sink, he left anything anywhere like a toddler. I felt so much like his mother that sexual interaction was disturbing, I saw him more as a child. I tried repeatedly to explain it. Then he got hard core into BDSM and wanted to do things like branding. Nope, I’m gone. Not playing that.
boringgggg
I started a blog and I would love if some of you guys checked it out!
100 times: yes! Thank you for this…and it SO TOTALLY GOES BOTH WAYS like so many of your commenters have posted. You have to care about the person, not what they are asking you to do….to be a bit cheeky, and put it in the basest terms: if you partner like their ears rubbed during sex, you rub their ears, right? Even if ear rubbing does nothing for you, and you can’t really understand why ANYONE could possibly want their ears rubbed, you still rub their ears….
Exactly
Did your ex-wife work?
I believe the glass effects some men the same way it effects the women.
If you can’t put my glass in the sink after I have worked all day for you will you sit at home with no kids! You don’t respect me, you can’t clean out the cat litter are you going to change diapers I don’t trust that you will.
FYI damn good article
Yep, it does go both ways. I’m am ABSOLUTELY with you *if* the offending partner doesn’t work and there are no kids involved. They can totally handle the glass. If I were in the stay-at-home-with-no-obligations person’s shoes, this is one of the very smalllll sacrifices I would make for the privilege of spending my time however I wanted, on someone else’s dime.
No matter what either partner does in or out of the house, grown ups clean up after themselves. taking care of the house involves plenty of work on it’s own without expecting one of the adults to have to check behind the other constantly for slightly incomplete tasks like the dirty glass. If it isnt a big deal where it goes, for you, then put it where they think it should be if it seems to be a big deal, for them. To do otherwise is, as described here, a clear statement of how little you value the other person. Do it regularly enough and they start noticing all the other times you ignore or override them. Do all those things long enough and they wonder what is the point of being with you.
Missing the point totally. It’s not about the glass. Or so works the most. Or if there’s kids. You’re like the guy in this article that doesn’t get it. Read it all again.
What? I have no idea what you are trying to say? That you can do what ever you damn well please because it’s your wife’s job to clean up after toy as she’s not working? You are missing the point of the article if that’s how you feel.
Can I just say, I gave up one of my rare opportunities to take a nap to stay awake and read a ton of your blog posts, all because of this particular post? I have a newborn son, my 4th child (all under 8 years old), and as a parent you know I’m not getting much sleep or peace these days. It’s my “me” day ironically, when I ship the kids to a sitter so I can accomplish something without having to juggle kids and their needs/wants at the same time. I was hell bent on getting a sorely needed nap but this blog made me cry. Finally, a male can articulate what is going on inside my head at times and put it into terms for men so they can hopefully understand. I have shared this with my husband, this will be our 10th year of marriage, and thus far, experience and conditioning tells me he won’t take this to heart like I hope he does. I know I’m not perfect and I need to work on my end of things. I always hold out hope that if he can just understand me better and how I am thinking, then maybe things can improve in our marriage from my perspective. Thank you, your insight into a women’s thought process, at least in my personal case, is nothing short of miraculous.
Nobody, husband or wife, should feel like their entire marriage depends on whether or not they picked up just the right brand of toothpaste, left a glass by the sink, or remembered to pick up bread from the grocery store. That borders on emotional abuse. It’s likely to result, not in the partner “straightening up” and always remembering to put the glass away, but instead becoming perpetually anxious and insecure about the relationship.
Totally agree. There’s perfectionism and control — and there’s communication and compromise. What are your big issues? What is really important to you? Shouldn’t things even out?
That’s not the point of the article. The Glass is a metaphor. The glass represents anything that is important to your partner that may not be as important to you or that you don’t completely understand. You respect what is important to them solely because its important to them without questioning why it is important or minimizing the importance. You do it out of respect for them even if you don’t understand.
you missed the point. Re read the post
I think the thing I got from this is :
If you ask someone to do something 15 times over months, and they don’t do it, you wonder about it. It would work the same way if you were asking.
Wish I had this years ago, when it may have opened a window of communication, that I couldn’t do on my own. Very well said, hope it helps many couples.
You will enjoy this video which is another way to say what this article is saying. Thanks for the great read! http://youtu.be/JyAqGeyGh7Y
My husband does the same thing with the glass. Guess what? Thanks for reusing it and not creating more work for me. My kids do it ! Let that shit go. There are more important things in life! Don’t focus on petty shit. Bc there is always going to be stuff that drives you nuts about your partner. Be grateful for the glass, for the clean water to drink, for the electricity that isn’t turned off so you can run said dishwasher, or not having to wash dishes by hand. Life is too short to let things like this sour your journey.
Thank you for posting this. Its a great read and something everyone should take to heart whether they’re with a partner or not, no matter their gender or identity.
Great article. Here are my thoughts, which I think completely go against your advice…
Most men have the magical ability to turn into children as soon as they are married. They lose the ability to take care of themselves and the ability to listen to and follow simple instruction. But we cannot place the blame of a failed marriage solely on men. Because one cannot expect children to bare the responsibility of adults.
Instead, wives have to take it upon themselves to re-train their husbands into adults again. Do not put the dirty glasses and dishes into the dishwasher. Do not put away the clean laundry. Do not turn his inside-out socks. Yes it is a painful process, but gradually the sense of independence and self-resilience will be re-awakened in married men. And they will remember what life was like before a live-in female servant came around. And they will remember that dishes did not clean themselves; clean laundry did not magically separate themselves from dirty laundry etc.
Only then, when the husband has returned to adulthood, can the failure of a marriage be placed on both parties.
Why is it the responsibility of the woman to train a grown, adult man? Why can’t the grown, adult man take some responsibility for his own actions and respect his partner enough not to dump more emotional labor on her?
Men are not children. Men are not stupid dogs that need to be trained. Men are men.
If I have to “train” my husband to do basic hygiene and housekeeping, I don’t respect him enough to marry him and no smart woman should. Take some responsibility for your own actions.
If a man acts like a child (actually once you have children, you’ll realize that many men are worse than children), he’s clearly asking to be treated as one.
Give him his beer in a sippy cup next time he asks you to fetch one!
The problem is, many married men did once upon a time know something about hygiene and housekeeping. A man may have even cooked a whole meal by himself and washed all the dishes afterwards, during courtship. What is baffling is how quickly these abilities all vanish as soon as wedding vows are exchanged.
I am going off on a tangent here, but your comment opener now has me imagining a “magical dude” anime… middle-aged guys in sailor skirts and blouses.
And your comment is spot on. I hate the whole “be my wife AND my mommy” attitude.
I understand the basis of this article, but as a woman (by the way), I do feel the whole glass by the sink thing to be a leeeeeeeeeeetle bit of an overreaction. Interestingly my ex boyfriend had a big thing about me being untidy, messing up his tidy cooking areas and putting things away incorrectly. But that wasn’t why I left him. He could have left glasses lying everywhere and his socks and smalls on the floor for all I cared. He disrespected me in many other ways which built up over time, mainly his need to leer at other women wherever we went to the extent that I could have walked off in another direction and he would never have even noticed till several hundred yards had gone by. That and his miserliness to spend a cent of his own money on me, and never once buying me a gift in 5 years, while I forked out for holidays, surprises etc. etc.
We all have our last straw, I do understand where this article is coming from totally, even if I think getting upset about the glass is extreme. When someone endlessly repeats the same behaviour which the other partner finds offensive/disrespectful/upsetting.. in whatever way that may be.. and the “offending” partner is well aware that the offended party doesn’t like it, and it wouldn’t take all that much of an effort to compromise – the magic word in relationships right? – and the “offender” refuses to make the effort/change/adapt – in order to make life more sweet for the offended, then heck yes, you DO start to wonder, does that person that claims to love me so much REALLY care at all?
Shame when this happens, as very often a relationship can be so good in so many other ways. But to deliberately do stuff which you KNOW hurts your partner means either you really don’t love them at all and/or you WANT to hurt them. Both scenarios aren’t good and spell the end at some point or other.
Great article but everything he says needs to be said to both men and women! Women are just as bad for the exact same reasons. This article made me feel like the woman should have done quiet a few things differently as well, that divorce is not all on him. She also made poor choices.
It’s called communication people. No body reads minds. Not everything we think about is pretty and not everything we feel is great. But if you chose the correct person they want to know, they need to know, they will work with you. Together as a team to overcome the lack of understanding.
Would my husband ever understand why 3 hours of playing video games is okay but six hours is not? Well he certainly wouldn’t if the only thing I ever did was get mad and yell “you play games too much!” And just ranted on and on.
Of course that’s what happened in the beginning, then I women’d up and read books to learn how to communicate better. It has taken several years to reach the level of communication we are currently at. And while he might not completely understand the difference. He does know about it because I was able to control my emotional responses enough to effectively communicate that 3 hours is his time (and my own me time) and three hours is our time. He knows that I need him to choose “us” over him sometimes just as I have to put my book down and choose “us” over grand romantic adventures in space.
Anyway. That’s the point. Communicate (and just in case, communicating does NOT mean yelling and fighting. There is a huge difference! Learn it. The Internet will teach you all about it!) with your partner! Even when it hurts, is embarrassing, makes you look like a horrible person. Communicate it all! The awesome, the great, the okay, the lame, the hurt, the pain, the ugliness! Keeping silent and held inside will only hurt you in the end.
(If you’re wondering….. I am the lucky one. His few flaws, though huge in my mind at times are nothing when I think of my own flaws and the emotional unstableness I bring into his life on a regular basis. For whatever reason he has decided to keep this hippipunk who doesn’t like being in a kitchen and I thank him for that! Even if not always ?)
– The Chick who leaves more than a glass by the kitchen sink.
*heartfelt clapping*
It might be that I come from completely different relationships but I, too, wondered why it was just the man who had to be able to mind read his wife, rather than both actually trying to communicate. Especially when something for you is important that others think is not a big deal or, worse, see it opposite than you. You can’t expect things to magically solve themselves via the power of passive-aggressiveness. you actually got to sit down and solve that crap. Especially when it seems inane.
Specifically on the glass thing: my bf is a “use them, immediately put them in the dishwasher” guy, while I grew up in a conservative household where you don’t use two glasses when you can use one, so you don’t put that glass away until you’re 1000% sure you’re done with it. We really had to talk about it. And now it’s not a problem any more, even if we keep our separate ideas about what’s proper.
Communication. It’s magic, or something.
While this water glass thing connects with the female “you don’t love me because you didn’t do what I asked….” stuff, this kind of obsession has a name — PERFECTIONISM. I know because I am married to a perfectionist husband. There can’t be any clutter, can’t be any mail on the table, any laundry in the hamper. It is exhausting to try to comply. It is worse when it is about your weight / nails/ hairdo/ a blemish on your face. While you may be guilty of the usual husband stuff, she has a PROBLEM that everything has to be “just so”. It is possible to stay married for a lifetime to a perfectionist, but the non-perfectionist has to realize it is “his/her” problem, not my defect and just do it to keep the peace. It is probably born of insecurity of some kind. There are books and websites available about highly sensitive personality. You know the kind of person who can see a piece of fuzz on a carpet, or an almost invisible stain or scratch on something, or can’t stand any noise in the house or…. It becomes an obsession to control whatever the irritating simuli are. I hope you can work it out and reconcile.
I totally agree with you. My ex-husband of almost 20 years was a perfectionist who was unable to compromise on anything – whether it was clutter, how things were done, making rules, or what have you. It didn’t have a lot to do with the clutter, per se, it was his inability (or attempts) to control – everything. At a certain point, it becomes impossible to even attempt to do things they way they want (wipe the table this way) and there is no way to acquiesce to their demands. No matter how much you don’t want to hurt them.
I empathize with the author’s struggle – and the feelings of not recognizing the importance or pain behind a request. I also recognize the idea of not understanding the importance of something that seems insignificant – in my case, the clutter that bothered him greatly paled in comparison to raising competent, happy, healthy children. I didn’t feel like I was a housekeeper or that was my primary or most important role. He never found compromise useful – nor counseling.
I’ve been engaged for about 7 months now and the wedding is this October. I love my fiance more than anything, but I tend to do a horrible job of listening “the first time” as he says. I always hear him the second time, but not the first. This is essentially our “glass by the dishwasher” argument.
To him, he feels as if I’m too busy living in my own world (he likes that example a lot because I’m an only child) to pay attention to the things he says. To me, it’s not that I’m not listening, it’s that I sometimes don’t catch everything, and more often than not I honest to God just forget. I have the short term memory of a beetle, but Jared can’t see that so there’s never an ending to the argument. It just simmers down until I don’t hear him again and then we boil over all over.
I completely see his side though, I just don’t know what to do to either help me absorb what he says to me better or to make him see that I do care, I’m not ignoring him, I’m just a little spacey sometimes.
Any advice from the more experienced?
Perhaps learn to paraphrase what he is trying to tell you he wants from you. By paraphrasing it back to him, it assures him you have listened to him as well as it reinforces the message to you and imprints it in your brain. Or write it down as soon as you can. You have just developed a habit of “not listening” and tuning out or listening to key words only. It is frustrating and I get why your husband is frustrated. But with practice and application, you can break the habit as it seems you truly care about him and see your failings.
You sound like you have an undiagnosed learning disorder, actually.
Our used to drive me crazy that my guy was so tuned out. Now- I first speak his name, than make eye contact and once I am certain that I have his attention I speak. This ensures that I’m not just getting a “sure”, I know he’s heard me and if his eyes dart back the television, I stop speaking till his attention returns.
Brooke, are you the artistic type? Is he the engineer type? That’s just generalizing, but there’s nothing wrong with the fact that you forget or are dreamy. After 33 years of marriage, my hb has finally understood that I can’t do or remember all he demands…it’s been hard on me..I don’t know if I’d marry him again…from the stress and strain, my health has suffered greatly. Look ahead into the future and ask yourself if you’re ready for marriage with this man. If he truly loves you, he’ll accept you the way you are instead of fault finding. Perhaps talk with a counselor.
Wow I so relate to what you’re saying! I have had A.D.D. my whole life and missing details because I tuned out for a moment has been a terrible hurdle at times, in relationships and work. That, coupled with a bad memory (my partner refuses to repeat stuff she claims she tried to explain to me numerous times which I have no recollection of). All I can say is, be humble and own up to these weaknesses, but also ask your fiance for some reasonable degree of patience and understanding to ensure he is still meeting you halfway. Being in relationships necessitates both partners being vulnerable and humble, owning their mistakes and having the grace to forgive each other accordingly. I hope things work out for you and your fiance.
1) It’s totally OK to be a bit spacey.
2) It’s totally OK for your fiancé to expect to be heard the first time.
3) You both want the same thing, a loving and caring relationship.
I’d suggest you sit down with Jared and tell him what you’ve posted here if you haven’t already.
Let him know that because of your style, things don’t always sink in the first time.
Ask him if there’s a way for him to signal to you, before he gets too far into what he wants to say, that this is a “First Time” conversation.
If you are able to focus while sitting down, find a special place in your house or apartment for extra-important conversations. Maybe chairs and a table instead of a couch or loveseat?
In return, he should realize that you won’t be able to give him 100% attention every time he speaks, just like he doesn’t give you 100% attention when you’re talking and he’s really into a movie or something.
I doubt you’ll do exactly what I’m suggesting. That would be weird. But maybe it can be a springboard so the two of you can both have your needs met.
Don’t let this disagreement fall 100% on your shoulders or his. That’s when your relationship is in trouble.
When both partners feel like the other person is willing to move more than halfway to a compromise, you’ve hit a secret to a happy long-term relationship.
Oddly enough, I actually decided to tell him about the comment a few hours after I’d posted it before I’d seen anyone’s comments, just to let him know that I was concerned with his doubts about my willingness to do something about my bad listening. He was shocked (in a good way) that I’d reached out for advice. He told me he could be more patient with me, and to try to get my attention entirely before telling me anything important. And I agreed to try wholeheartedly to listen intently when he speaks to me, not just give him part of my attention while still being distracted by tv, my phone, etc. I was so happy to find that he believed he needed to take part of the blame as well, rather than let it all fall on my shoulders like you said. Thanks again! It feels like we’re moving in the right direction with this.
You sound like you have ADD. (often females are under diagnosed when it comes to attention deficit because they don’t have the hyper active behavior–they tend to be more day dreaming or “spacey”.) I remarried to a man who is ADD, his daughter is ADD, and his son is ADHD. I have learned before talking about something important to make sure I have his (or their) undivided attention. I also leave reminder notes. My husband is one of the most intelligent men that I know, but many times he seems like he is only half listening to me. So, I stop and say something like this, “I am telling you something important. Do I have your attention?”. He has many, many wonderful characteristics and I love him dearly……but, there are things I need to do overlook. The struggle is real with ADD/ADHD.
So……
You know it was not the glass beside the sink.
1. You mentioned white male entitlement.
Ya know. … nobody else gets that.
2. The potential of bringing children into the marriage. … I divorced my husband because I needed to communicate THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR to our sons. … having a girlfriend, calling me names, high-fiving the boys for insulting their mom. … I failed…
My 28 yr old son insulted his 23 year old precious bride. … and she posted it to Facebook. … how utterly sad.
Did I fail as a mom? Nope, dad failed as a man… as a father and for his daughter in law and all 3 of my granddaughters
3. I’ve only recently truly come to understand the warp in male thinking and the Martian / Venutian communication gap. No one loves your appendage as much as you. 21 years and 2 sons and I had no idea THOSE THOUGHTS were what he thought I was thinking. ….
Well worth sharing. Excellent post!
My husband and I just made the decision for him to move out. What has been written here is all I wanted him to learn. 15 years I have made little concessions for him on a daily basis out of love and respect for him. Because it made me happy to see his happiness. Even when he derived joy from things that could not be more inconsequential to me, I went out of my way to give it to him. While his lack of concern devastated me. I felt so unloved, undervalued and disrespected. The final straw came when he cheated on me and I tried to give him one last chance. But he refused to change a single thing and I have been forced to put my own well-being ahead of my deep desire to save my marriage. I can’t make him love me. Love is an action verb, not just a noun or a way of feeling.
I could have written your statement, Rachel.
Fantastic article! Really appreciate the insight and the understanding that these problems plague more than just my husband and I. Such a relief to have some context, and understanding. I do have one question for you though…
How would you propose effecting real, lasting change in a dynamic that’s clearly not working? Specifically, how might you suggest I motivate my husband [preferably w/o the use of ultimatums, fear tactics, emotional blackmail, etc] to behave more like a partner than a… non-partner.
My issue lies in that fact that my husband is NOT unaware of the relationship imbalance, acknowledging privately & publicly that he isn’t contributing proportionately to the household. His past relationships all – to some extent or another – ended due to household imbalance, with my husband actually the stable, grounded partner taking on the lion’s share of work, so you’d think it’d be a no-brainer with an equally stable partner. Hah. Not so much.
The talk is great, and completely irreproachable. It’s the follow through that’s the problem, since there is none. I sometimes suspect that in his mind, intent = action. Sort of like putting on your gym clothes, getting to the gym, and sticking in your earbuds is equivalent to a workout. SOMEtimes, you’ll actually work out… but only if you’re with your fit friend or to look good for the gym hotties. Similarly, I’m pretty sure the hubby only does his once-in-a-blue-moon contribution to be able to triumphantly say, “No, you don’t ALWAYS do {insert chore here}”.
He’s a nice guy. A great one. A super-charming, smart, witty…only boy/child of multiple divorced parents. Yeah.
If you’ve got any pearls of wisdom, some tips and tricks or the like, I’d really appreciate it, since clearly I don’t have a goddamn clue. All I know, being mother/babysitter/nursemaid to my partner is not what I signed on for.
I can totally relate…. Our second marriage and his first was to one who demanded everything and rarely worked and contributed. The way he tells the story it’s like he worked 20/24 hours to contribute to the running of the household so they could afford the good things in life. Then along comes me… A 50 something, fit and athletic, independent, professionally employed with all the meaningful assets ( I have my own house.. He has nothing as she got the lot in the divorce settlement). But we don’t operate as a team. He hides things from me and continues to support his adult sponging daughters and gives away everything he has to them. Even the measly $30k settlement he got in the divorce settlement he gave to each of his kids (he has three)… He comes to the marriage with nothing and yet gets shitty with me for wanting to start over fresh TOGETHER without him giving everything away to his kids. I want a partner and to act as a team. He can’t see that he isn’t and is in cat putting his kids wants before our needs as a married couple. We can’t even plan to buy something together as I don’t even know how much money he has as he refuses to be financially transparent as he knows I will hit the roof when I see him transferring money into his adult kids’ bank accounts.
Sorry.. I’m out of options and I’m receiving counselling to help me deal with the growing levels of resentment I’m feeling as a result. It’s not what I signed up for too!
First, recognize that his version of his marriage/divorce is not entirely accurate. It’s his view. I’m sure his ex-wife and his children have other perspectives.
If he is not transparent with his finances, that is a HUGE red flag. You should be able to discuss his desire to contribute to his adult children. That should be on the table — but he should also be willing to be fully transparent and contributing financially to the marriage, including planning for houses, retirement, and your future. Often you can figure out a way to organize finances so each partner contributes a % toward living expenses and savings and then has a fund for personal expenses. But it’s got to be fully transparent and he’s got to be on board and honest about it.
He must put you on the list – and it sounds like he’s not. He may be acting out of guilt with his children or other motives.
How long did you date before getting married? What is your relationship with his children?
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No. Just no.
The act of respect = Yup
The act of partnering and being a partner = Yup
Respecting each others lives things and feelings = Yup
Pandering to irrational impulses based on unimportant things = NO
USING one such irrationality or unimportant thing as an excuse to forcibly destroy a relationship – from EITHER spouse – NO.
You are better off without him/her/shim/sher. That is not a marriage, that is psychiatric care.
Show me a man or woman who initiates a divorce over glasses or garbage or panties on the curtain rod or house-showcasing, and I’ll show you a damaged mind that needed more help than was available.
Your columns are interesting – but this one .. Just NO.
I think his point was, it wasnt this one thing. It was his attitude displayed regarding this one thing. It existed elsewhere in their marriage, this was just a visible example.
Yep!
I agree with you. I think there were underlying issues there that needed to be addressed. The glass thing just seems completely irrational to me. My husband works very hard to provide the life we have, so I would never pick at little unimportant things like that. But that is because I’m thinking rationally. If a glass was bothering her, she had other issues that needed talking out. And it’s not her husband’s job to read her mind. She’s an adult who needs to talk to her husband like an adult and say “Hey, maybe we should get couple’s counseling because this, that and the other is bothering me.” Communication is key. And the glass thing was just a silly game.
Exactly. He only feels this way because he went to a female therapist that brain washed him into thinking this way. A glass by the sink in the grand scheme of things means absolutely nothing! She was a psychopathic OCD diva. I bet his xwife couldn’t come up with one thing he ever did correctly or one single thing she appreciated from him. Clearly she was the problem. I’m sure all of his inadequacies were out on the the table well before the vows. Hopefully this guy is married to a SANE individual that appreciates him for exactly who he is. She is clearly not marriage material. Oh well.
I’m a woman, but I’m definitely more in the “it’s just a glass, why does it matter?” camp. I’ve lived with a few people who felt the way your wife did, and they could really get under my skin. This helped me to see how they may have felt. I’ve been on the other side, too, where something was important to me and someone whose consideration I wanted just didn’t see it that way, and that’s a tough position to be in, too. I really don’t think this applies just to marriage or that it’s even all that gender-based, but it’s definitely an insightful portrayal of human interaction.
This is so right… I used to say “I give you all the answers.” Day after day you tell the same person not to walk through the house with dirty shoes, not to leave their dishes in the sink and for God’s sake not to rack up credit card bills. Day after day you get tired of not being listened to. And so I am no longer married… for other reasons too, but it all starts with the little things and turns into resentment from both sides.
Now if my children would get the concept. I do tell them that if they want to stick around after high school to attend college and live with me, they need to knock off leaving their crap everywhere, but it is a losing battle.
There is a book called: “The Five Love Languages”, Chapman. Know your partners love languages, know your own and marriage can be successful.
You’ve been suckered!
Firstly… let me say that I usually put my glass in the dishwasher and OFTEN pick up her plate and glass to do the same. HOWEVER… let me say what pisses me off about this article. It simply can be completely reversed. “I don’t have to understand WHY she cares so much about that stupid glass. I just have to understand and respect that she DOES.” can just as easily be, “I don’t have to understand WHY he needs to put the glass in the sink. I just have to understand and respect that he does.”
If you have such a sensitive wife, she better be really good in other ways because even if there were several MINOR issues like this, they are still minor issues and her sensitivity is ridiculous!
BOTH need to read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Loving-What-Four…/dp/1400045371
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Oh my goodness! Best article I have ever read. My husband and I literally just had this same fight 5 min before so read this article! I have tried many ways to convey my feelings of despair with him and nothing. He is currently reading the article with tears down his face because the light bulb just went off.
And YOU are NUTS for making him feel guilty and HE is nuts for falling for it!!!!
I’m sorry but if a women needs a man to put a dish in the dishwasher to feel validated, she needs to see a therapist. I found this article absolutely ridiculous. If your husband works hard to make your life possible and comes home to you every night, that says a lot about his much he loves you. Knit picking about little things like that has nothing to do with your husband and everything to do with how irrational someone is. I’m sorry, but yes, I think this woman was being incredibly irrational.
I was thinking along those same lines-seems so nitpicky. I believe in not sweating the small stuff…marriage is hard enough, at times, without a glass by the sink becoming so significant. I am thinking there were far deeper issues within this marriage, and the woman was not comfortable with verbalizing them, so she focused on the glass.
I can relate
Sigh….and getting so upset over something as silly as this, yes silly, is exactly why marriages these days end up in divorce. Grow up people. Leaving a glass on the sink, in the sink, or on the table is not a sign of disrespect! If couples get upset over something as simple as this, it’s no wonder they can’t handle the big stuff that comes along. Stop looking for things to get upset with!
I wonder how many men out there are thinking “well, my wife/partner didn’t put the toilet seat up for me, so she doesn’t have respect for my wishes”. Yes, as much as women complain about men not putting the toilet seat back down, have any of these women thought that their husbands also have to put it up before using it after we’ve used it? Yes, most likely getting chuckles over that one, but stop to think about it! We’re adults, if a woman walks into the bathroom and the seat isn’t down, does it take any more time to put it down than it takes our partners? We women aren’t perfect. How often do we screw up the little things? So are we to believe that if the toilet seat is not put down that our husbands are disrespecting us, yet if we don’t put it up for them it’s not disrespecting them? Sounds kind of ridiculous, doesn’t it!
If you want to be a drill sergeant, join the military. But that’s not what good marriages are made of. I’m not saying to allow either partner to get stepped all over. That’s not the point of my comment. I’m saying stop making rules that are only aimed at getting our partners upset, and in turn getting ourselves upset. That leads to resentment over time, and that leads to divorce.
Stop overthinking every little thing that your partner does/says. Be thankful for the times that you both think of doing something for each other, learn to appreciate it and stop keeping score!
Signed….almost 50 years together and counting!
It’s not about the time it takes to put the seat down. It’s about falling in, when you don’t notice it’s up. And it’s not about keeping score. It’s about respecting the other persons strong feelings on a certain issue even if you don’t understand them.
I could just as easily say, “It’s not about falling in. It’s about pissing all over the seat!”
But frankly, I’ll bet our friend Val here would point out that the DEFAULT and TIDY position for the toilet seat is BOTH the seat AND the lid DOWN… therefore both arguments (including yours) are idiotic and moot! In either case the person about to pee should feel for the seat and lid and put them into the correct position for said peeing!
VAL! I LOVE YOU! 😀
Thank you!
So powerful–you did a wonderful job conveying painful emotions! I hope people find the truth in what you said and not miss the opportunity to fix a broken marriage or prevent it from happening. People need to get out of their own way and see the other perspective–then act on it! It means so much when we see these simple things change!
Thank you thank you thank you for writing this!!!! This is exactly what I need my husband to know and learn. But caring about it is of course a whole nother aspect that has to come from yourself, but thank you so much for writing this. From what I can see your whole blog has some good stuff.
Anyone who takes the time write a dissertation about a glass being left by the sink is a psychopath. Complain about something that actually matters. I mean for real, in the grand scheme of things does it really matter? Hell no! It doesn’t! Maybe this was his only “flaw”. I think this women is an OCD lunatic. I can imagine the BS she does that he doesn’t even mention to call her out on. He’s not being disrespectful. I do the same thing. I leave my glass and even a bowl from my morning cereal right beside the sink. There’s no reason to wash the damn thing if your going to use it shortly thereafter. If my wife complained about something this absurd, I would tell her to go to hell. How about give us a list of the things that he did well and things that she approved of. I bet the list is small. Geez, I wonder why. Hopefully this guy is remarried to a wonderfully SANE women who is easy going and doesn’t give damn about petty BS like a glass beside a sink. I bet she didn’t let him walk on the carpet after she vacuumed either.
Glass by the sink = metaphor. It almost seems like you may have missed parts of the article, as you do see the author thoroughly and very articulately negate several of your points. In particular around the ‘petty bullshit’, the glass not being equal to the glass, and the author’s marital status.
It’s not about the fucking glass! It’s about the fact that someone who leaves glasses or whatever out will often forget it was theirs in the first place. So the wife/girlfriend/mother ends up sodding doing it. It’s not realising this that is disrespectful.
IN WHAT UNIVERSE is it a sign of disrespect that a person leaves a glass out when it may be used again!?
It COULD BE that there is no disrespect but that you’re a bitch, instead!
What you said is true. Please don’t call other commenters names, because I care about your opinions.
Thanks for checking this out.
This is brilliant. My ex and I (he’s an ex because of other reasons), had the best communication I have ever had with another human being. He actually taught *me* how to be a better communicator. He was the wife in our relationship (figuratively–he’s very assertive and masculine); in other words, I was the one leaving the glass on the counter. He calmly approached me and let me know it bothered him and why. That was the beginning of our broadening communication and we continued to be honest and open about “the little things” that weren’t necessarily so little. Anyway, thank you for writing this. I hope many others read it and really absorb it.
This applies to more relationships than those in a marriage. Children and parents, business partners and co-workers, college roommates and adult roommates, friends for life and strangers on a train — treat everyone with respect. It is hard, it takes effort, it means you have to commit to a certain level of personal honor that simply is not easy in our casual, bird-flipping, messy, littered, cut you off in traffic world.
Hoo boy. My ex left his dirty, stinky tennis shoes on the half landing exactly at eye and nose level, after I had spent many hard day of work re-flooring and re-painting the entry so it would be happy and welcoming. He left underwear with skidmarks on the bedroom floor. He reused to have the fridge repaired or replaced because it “cot too much” (He was earning over 100k US money at the time). He promised trips and vacations and activities and then copped out of 99 percent of them (again, over 100k, could afford.) He went on busines trips and didn’t even think of asking me along. Disrespected? I felt like dirt. Of course I had no interest in sex with him, not when all I had to think of was dirt and stink. Then he acted all hurt and sad. Hint: toddlers are not attractive as husbands.
Married twice before and this third time still going strong after 17 years. When I look back on what has made this one last (and like any relationship, it has had its’ rocky moments), it has been our ability to communicate and understand, When we first met, we both came out with a list of the “little things” that annoy you, because we both knew (my wife had been married before) that is it these little things that get under your skin and just make you frustrated, then angry, then unloved /disrespected etc etc etc.
Some of the complaints I have had has been that I do not “show her that I love her the right way”! 🙂 Now, while my wife will accept that I DO things that show her I love her, they are NOT the tings that she sees as counting. so, our chats focus on what I do and how she feels after I do it. It has been illuminating for me to discover that just taking the recycling out and putting a new liner in the trash bin has her feeling all lovey dovey about me…lol
But, doing the laundry and making the meals – yeah, that is nice of me and sure, it is super helpful, but not the same reaction.
Why – she HATES taking the recycling out and pulling it to the top of the drive …while it does not bother me at all.
As someone in an earlier post said … “Communication…magic or something”!
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amazing how so many responses here feel that this post is about how leaving a glass by the sink caused your divorce. Which is totally not what this is about. The glass is a euphemism for respect, care, love, concern.
Signed, the woman who divorced over mushrooms on a pizza and is so much happier this time around because he would never put mushrooms on a pizza. 😉
This is really interesting. Marriage is give and take. Men desire respect; women desire love. I am not suggesting ALL do… But I would definitely say this is true {on average}.
And there are absolutely certain people who bring out your inner “crazy”. I’ve been there! It’s your choice and prerogative to say “I can not deal with ________”. And that is pretty much anyone’s right.. But to anyone who has such stipulations, I would say good luck finding that perfect person! haha
I am in total agreement about at least TRYING to do those seemingly dumb, little things that could potentially save your marriage. I am basically a really messy person and I leave dishes everywhere. I HATE doing dishes. With a fiery passion of a thousand suns. And my husband HATES doing dishes, too. And he also HATES seeing a dirty kitchen.. So, in an effort to make him happy, I try my hardest to keep it clean. But I pretty much suck at it! He is very understanding (I hope?) and I seriously don’t think he would leave me over it. We both have discussed our “divorce-worthy” issues that could ever arise.. Compulsive lying (without ever trying to rectify it or without any attempts to at least try to be honest) is one for me. I hate lying, mainly because it tells a lot about a person’s heart and it’s just pure betrayal in my eyes. And cheating, of course. Whether it be physical or emotional. Thankfully, we are both on the same page about these — so, it makes it easier!
You’re not the first person to say here that men desire respect and women desire love. As a woman* I just don’t get this. For me, if I have respect without love, while that might be suboptimal, that’s at least something I can work with. I have professional relationships like that all the time. I don’t need everyone to love me – but darn, if I’m going to work with them for any time, they’d better learn to respect me. (I haven’t usually had much trouble getting that point across. And really, I usually have pretty friendly relationships with my coworkers, though it works out better for everyone if I make it clear from the outset that I don’t stand for people fucking with me. Or, for that matter, anyone who works for me or is otherwise under my protection. Unless they really blow it.)
Love without respect though? Is a kind of love I’d rather not have. Frankly, it sounds downright poisonous. Like the kind of person who is convinced they know what’s best for me, or who wants to possess me, but hasn’t bothered to consult me about it. Ugh. Been there, done that, would not play again.
For me, respect is a necessary, if not sufficient, precondition for any love that I’d want. And because of that, if I had to choose between the two, respect will always win.
* And sure, I’m a neurobiologist, former software engineer, and martial arts instructor who is super handy if want to get into my lack of adherence to traditional gender roles… but then I also am an excellent cook, gardener, love kids, like to dance… I’m somewhere between well-rounded and spiky in a lot of different directions.
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This is a thoughtful and accurate depiction of a common and sad relationship breakdown. I like every part of this article except one little bit:
“Caring about her = taking care of kid-related things so she can just chill out for a little bit and not worry about anything.”
The assumption that kid related things are HER job is maddening. If both parents are home, both parents are parents.
This is a fantastic article.
I am so blessed my sister sent this to me. My husband and me have been married 6 years. The only thing I ask of him is to cleanup his messes. However after 6 years he still hasn’t followed through with my request. Travis, my husband, doesn’t just leave a cup by the sink he leaves a nasty NASTY mess in the kitchen and throughout the house. See, we work different shifts. Travis retired from the USMC at the age of 36 this past December. I admire his work ethic and many accomplishments ❤️. He now works a civilian job making really good money however he hates his job. Therefore I feel like I seek the rarth of Travis everyday that I get home from work. Once I arrive to our home I start with the kitchen and work my way throug the house cleaning up his mess. Travis leaves for work an hour after I get home. Therefore there is never fussing or nagging about his messes. I learned early on that God desires for me to be the best wife I know how to be. That’s my goal❤️ I HAVE discussed with Travis how disgusted I get with him when I come home to a nasty house. Travis’s response is, I go to school ‘online’, workout ‘Every single day’, and work a full time job that I hate. The only thing you do is work 8 hours, take care of Hayden ” Hayden is my son from a 12 year relationship” and clean the house!
I love Travis and know how he thinks. I sent this link to Travis ‘he’s at work’ in hopes that he gets how I feel.
Reblogged this on .
First – Holy cow what a fantastic article! I saw this shared on a friend’s Facebook post and I am now a loyal reader. The content is incredibly enlightening, but I also really dig the writing style.
Second – reading through way too many of the comments was a mistake I shall not repeat. So many of the commenters chose to focus on the OCD-ness of the “glass by the sink” example and it totally blinded them to the CONCEPT which the drinking glass represents. Seriously people, big picture time. Pull panties out of crack, recognize that men and women think and feel and behave and love and hurt differently. (Speaking metaphorically) buy new panties which do not ride up in crack (meaning, now that you recognize the differences exist, find new ways to build that recognition into your daily existence). Now, resist the urge to wear the ill-fitting, crack-riding panties just because it is laundry day and nothing else was clean. This takes work and planning and diligence. Whether you wear panties, boxer briefs, boy shorts, or nothing at all.
So it didn’t occur to him that if she asks him over and over again why he couldn’t put the glass in the dishwasher that it was a big deal to her?
It isn’t about who works outside the home full time. It’s about HEARING your spouse. When a spouse makes noises about why you have to squeeze the toothpaste tube from the middle or hair in the sink or shoes in the living room (guilty) it’s a flag.
If there’s one or two things ok. When it’s constant about multiple things you have to question what the spouse wants and why he or she is even with you. If everything you do or don’t do causes a comment or nagging, you have real troubles.
In this case, he didn’t read the signals. Maybe he’ll be a better spouse next time around.
I wish I could get my husband to read this and truly understand the meaning. I swear to God, if I hear one more time, “I’m no professional” as his reasoning for not completing or for doing something half way around the house, I’m hiring an attorney. I’m no professional chef, but I don’t serve raw potatoes or frozen chicken for dinner. This is our HOME, our sanctuary, why doesn’t he care? This gives me better words to express myself. Thank you.
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I am making my husband read this. He leaves his dishes on the counter right above the dishwasher even though I’ve asked him countless times not to do that. You understand why it’s a bigger issue than the dishes. Thank-you.
I bet there were plenty of things you did for her without feeling like you were being disrespected for having to do them. Did you care for the lawn? Take out the trash? Make sure the vehicles were maintained? It makes me so mad when all of the things husbands do for their wives are just disregarded, and then they are the bad guys for not doing everything else on top of it. So you left cups by the sink. She chose to see it as an act of disrespect on your part instead of looking at it as an act of love on her part to put them away for you.
My marriage is similar in that my husband is messy and cluttered and I like things tidy. But I love him for who is his, not what he does for me. ..though he does plenty!
Lisa,
You just took women independence 100yrs back. That denotes the concept of the reason to this whole post. It’s not about the actual cup or what more he does do for her that she doesn’t bring to light, it’s about respect and appreciation whether it’s dirty dishes or spending extra time with the kids. What ever is important to the person you love, you should respect and adhere to because when you truly truly love someone, you enjoy seeing them smile and do what you can to make them smile. Not everyone understand this because they don’t know what love truly is; 50/50 of putting their happiness ahead of your own “comfort”.
and your reply is why over 50 % of marriages end in divorce
Lisa how far did you set women back? Is a woman so weak that a cup in the sink destroys her entire self esteem and self worth? Are they so much weaker than men because such things don’t affect us? Do you think a strong person would so easily toppled? I’m divorced, but it was not my choice. Now should I have divorced my wife because she never vacuumed, never cleand the bathroom or kitchen? That I had to help her with the dishes and the laundry? Should I have divorced her because she never got a job, woke up at noon, and played on her phone all day? No I loved her and such things shouldn’t matter. But if things were the other way around. You are saying woman are weak and that such things would be worth a divorce.
Marriage is 100/100, divorce is 50/50 for one and two) dieing to self is for both not just one.
Lovely said!I agree. It’s a give and take. A constant evolution of truly flowing with one another. Learning to weave that Web and share a beautiful and meaningful life.
Mistake my comment was to Jessica not Lisa.
“You just took women independence 100yrs back.”
That’s a bit of an exaggeration, don’t you think? Taking issue with this article is like taking away women’s right to vote?
“It’s not about the actual cup or what more he does do for her that she doesn’t bring to light”
Lisa’s point is that it SHOULD be about that ALSO. Men *should* put the cup away, but women also should endeavor to recognize the demonstrations of love and respect that they DO make. Does this seem unreasonable? Why is this idea an attack on women’s liberty?
“it’s about respect and appreciation whether it’s dirty dishes or spending extra time with the kids.”
No, actually it’s not. You appear to have missed the point of this article and picked out only the parts you like (i.e. the parts where it is telling men what they’re failing at).
It is actually about giving BOTH SEXES a hint about successful communication with the opposite sex. Yes, it is telling men why things women do that seem trivial to them are actually very important. But it is ALSO TELLING WOMEN that this **needs to be pointed out to them**. This article is highlighting a common and fundamental difference between men and women that leads to a common and fundamental problem with communication.
This article is NOT just about telling men to do little things that their wives or girlfriends want them to do. It is about telling men why women are upset about it in the first place, AND about telling women why men don’t get it when they think they should.
But yes, by all means — go ahead and talk about how putting any onus on women for successful communication in a relationship is like setting back women’s rights by a century. That sounds completely reasonable.
I don’t think his point is that he was the only one who did anything wrong, or that this is all he did wrong, or that a wife should be able to sit around like some queen who does nothing. I think he is simply addressing what he feels is his own part in the collapse of his marriage – which, incidentally, is the only part he has control over – rather than turning it into a tit-for-tat situation that solves nothing and only makes things worse. He’s certainly right in his assessment that if you truly cannot take 4 seconds to do something (that’s also very easy) to make your significant other happy, there is a problem. I cannot believe someone would actually encourage a petty argument over it. The mindset you are displaying is exactly what he is saying ruined his marriage.
Shaman Sister SinDelle excellent reply…can we be friends? lol
LOL Sure :oD
very well said…
This!!!
Excellent response! Thank you for being a critical thinker 🙂
The point is for each person to look to the things they can do to make the relationship better, nto the things the other can do. it’s not my responsibility as a husband or my place to tell my wife “it’s not that big a deal, you need to respect me more.” It’s my job to do the things I can to be better to her.
Relationships are two way streets, but I only have control of one of those directions–the one form me to her. Therefore, I need to be doing what I can to make that direction one of unconditional love and respect. if the relationship is healthy, she will be doing the same. if it’s not, then at least I am doing all I can–plus, it’s pretty hard to be bad to somebody who is truly giving you what you need.
This is very well-said. It’s unreal to me that the author of this article is willing to examine and admit what he feels he did wrong and people are lining up to hand him reasons to blame his wife instead of taking responsibility for his part. It’s as if someone not acting like a victim is offensive to them. I don’t get it.
I believe it is a give and take but unless totally agree with the original writer of this article. I do all housework and all outside work and take care of all vehicles and animal welfare, birthday cards etc. My husband has his job outside the home. I have until just recently worked full-time and more plus all of the home stuff as well. I love my husband and know he loves me but I could certainly have more help her I just don’t think it will happen.
I recently read an article that said women should stop using the word “help” when speaking about husbands and household chores. It makes it sound like taking care of the home is strictly the woman’s job and if the man participates in any of it, it should be considered a favor or something. “Could you help me out and bathe the baby tonight?” “Can you help me fold the clothes?” “Can you help me wrap your parents’ Xmas gifts?” Until I read that article, nothing about these questions seemed strange to me. But if you think about it, the wording of these questions make it sound as if these tasks are strictly the woman’s responsibility and if the man does what is asked of him, he is earning brownie points. That is so 1950. An adult relationship should be a partnership. A household is shared and should be run jointly. Most marriages consist of two employed individuals. So why should it be just one of them who is expected to take care of the house? A man doing the laundry should not be told he’s helping. Half of that laundry is his, after all. If he is the first one to notice the hamper is full, it should just be automatic that he starts the laundry. If the woman notices it first, then she should do it.
I am having a lot of problems with my wrist right now and will be having surgery soon. It’s a struggle to get the dirty laundry downstairs, where the washer and dryer are. It also really hurts to fold the clothes. I get snappy about it with my fiance because it gets tiring to always have to ask him to bring the laundry downstairs. He can see it’s full. Last night, he got snappy back. He said he’s going to put an end to this fight by hiring someone to do our laundry and fold it. And he was serious. How ridiculous is that? He is a great person and I love him very much, but him saying that kind of disgusted me. It’s as if he, and probably most men, have this sense of entitlement. Most men think that after a long workday, they should be able to come home and relax. Most women are already planning which chores they are going to do when they get home before lunch break. In most cases, this is going to cause resentment to build up until, one day, that glass by the sink is enough to make a woman want out.
Sorry. I saw you use the word “help” and meant to respond with a brief description of the article. I guess I needed to vent. Haha.
Amen!
Good lord.. are you kidding me? Seriously? I say thank you every time my husband does something and it’s meaningless to him. Why? because it’s just words.
Here’s what women get sick of Lisa in case you are so busy doting on your trash taking out guy you didn’t notice…. Taking care of grown men who act like children is exhausting. Pick up your toys, pick you up your plate when you’re done, put your socks in the laundry bin, put your dirty pants, underwear, shirts EVERYTHING In the dirty clothes bin, fold clothes then put them away (just like I do) think of other people who have to put their important papers down on that counter that you just left smeared with mayo, and wipe it up (like I do) It’s a constant stream of helplessness on their part. They are so myopic that they walk through the house, and sometimes life, dropping crap left and right with no thought to others around them.
If you seriously have never encountered the man-child, consider yourself lucky, but don’t tell me I don’t appreciate my husband and that the HUNDREDS of things I do around here are nothing. Not only do I do these hundreds of things, but I help care for the lawn, rake, garden, wash floors, take the car in… it’s called life and if just doing that was all it took it wouldn’t be a problem. The yard is what.. once a week if that? Every day life happens and the hundreds of things women do ON TOP of the other maintenance things is what he’s talking about. Yes. I like a clean house and I don’t like taking care of a perfectly capable adult man.
The idea that taking the trash out once a week, or the car in once every three months, or that yard work every week is contributing to the daily upkeep attention and care that is needed to run a home is laughable. Oooh! He makes sure the vehicles are maintained! That’s SO HARD! The little light comes on and you make a phone call. Wow. Get the man a medal. Now that h’s demonstrated he’s a big boy, he can get up, make breakfasts, lunches, go to work, come home, cook, clean, attend, fix, pick up, do laundry and do all the little things that have to get done just like his wife does. PAH-LEASE! I divorced a man-child because I did everything. Every god-damned thing right down to bringing home the pay check. I don’t need a burden, I need a mate and I’m sorry.. but the crap you listed is nothing. Absolutely nothing when hundreds of things have to get done every single day.
Way to completely ignore the fact that men can and do run the house and get just as pissy about the little things like plates being left on the table. My wife is constantly leaving her dirty dishes for me to put in the dishwasher, but I’m not so petty that I want to divorce her because of it. It’s who she is and I lover her regardless. If your so fragile that someone not putting a glass in the dishwasher makes you want to divorce them, there’s a deeper problem.
OMG, yes, and he’s getting worse and I am getting more fed up with it. I told my friend that it feels like he’s saying ‘Oh, you have nothing better to do than run around behind me and clean up after me.’. I am so SICK AND TIRED of wiping up the coffee spills every single freakin’ morning (and I don’t drink coffee so it’s not my mess) and soaking the oatmeal bowl because it’s not turned into concrete and he couldn’t be bothered to rinse it. And coming home from work on his day off and he’s waiting for me to get here to fix dinner because ‘I didn’t know what you wanted to have’ and putting the soda can by the sink instead of in the recycling bin. I could go on and on. I don’t need a child to take care of, I raised my kids. I want an adult.
A-freakin-men.
First of all, none of those are daily tasks, so they don’t really compare.
Second, I highly doubt he thanks her every time she does the dishes, makes dinner, does laundry, cleans the house, goes grocery shopping, helps the kids with their homework, etc. and guess what? He shouldn’t. These are basic household responsibilities that both spouses should willingly share, which is where the glass comes in. It’s not that difficult to clean up after yourself.
Third, if your husband asked you several times per day to take out the trash, or repeatedly asked you to mow the lawn, I’m willing to bet he would feel disrespected if you didn’t do it.
The whole point of this article is that it’s not about the glass, it’s the lack of respect. He might not care that the glass is there, but she does, and he knows she does, and he should be willing to take 5 seconds out of his day to make his wife happy.
No, that’s not the whole point, but I see why you might overlook the other part.
The other very important point is that there are fundamental reasons why it is not necessarily in him to recognize that fact. In other words, if he doesn’t seem to get why it is important, it might be because YOU HAVEN’T SUCCESSFULLY COMMUNICATED THAT TO HIM. Even if you THINK you have, because it seems so obvious to you how much it matters, your feelings about it to not necessarily make any sense to him.
Jason,
I don’t “do” passive aggressive. I don’t think I even know how to communicate indirectly. If I literally tell my husband “I feel disrespected when you leave your glass on the counter” (or whatever the case may be) I don’t think it’s unrealistic for me to expect him to understand that I feel disrespected when he leaves his glass on the counter.
I’m not intentionally ignoring any portion of this article, so, in all seriousness, please, correct me if I’m wrong.
I wasn’t suggesting that you were being passive aggressive, or that you weren’t saying anything at all.
I was suggesting (as was this article, very plainly) is that perhaps the things you’re saying aren’t getting through because *they don’t make any emotional sense to him*.
This was the huge point of the last few paragraphs: **simply telling him how you feel might not be enough** no matter how many times you do it.
If you tell your husband that you feel disrespected that he left his glass on the counter, even if you tell him that directly, it may sound totally absurd to him. He would NEVER feel disrespected if you did that, and he cannot see how anyone could. It may sound like you’re just picking fights over minutiae because you’re irritable, or whatever. A direct and truthful statement isn’t an explanation, it doesn’t help him understand WHY you feel that way and WHY it is important to you. If you don’t give him that context, he can only evaluate your words in the context of the way HE would feel, and he simply doesn’t feel the same way.
You’re implicitly assuming that you are living in the same sort of emotional world as him, and you’re probably not. Men and women have to explain to each other not only what feelings they’re having but WHY THEY’RE HAVING THEM if they ever want to make sense to each other. That’s what I mean by SUCCESSFUL communication.
You’re assuming we understand why we feel the way we do! Feelings aren’t necessarily rational, they’re definitely not easy to explain, and they’re almost impossible to compare. I can’t think of a single thing I do on a daily basis that upsets my husband enough to make him want to leave me. It could be that I’m perfect, and even though I’m pretty sure that’s not the case, I’ll just keep telling myself it is. 🙂
Deep down, I know it would be just as easy for me to put the glass in the dishwasher myself, but why should I have to? I’m already a mother to one child. My husband is supposed to be my partner, not an annoying roommate or a second child.
Why would I want to live with someone who makes everyday life more difficult?
My best (although probably still completely irrational) explanation is that me asking him to put his glass in the dishwasher implies that he’s doing me a favor, which implies that it’s somehow my job to clean up after him, or even to clean in general.
This whole thread is making me understand why 90’s sitcom moms went on “strike” and stopped doing “mom” duties.
“You’re assuming we understand why we feel the way we do! Feelings aren’t necessarily rational, they’re definitely not easy to explain”
And yet, you did an okay job 🙂
It’s true that it isn’t very easy to put a finger on — certainly not in the moment — but I think it is possible in most cases to puzzle out why you feel the way you do if you sit and pick at your feelings for a little while. Even if it isn’t entirely rational it is coming from *somewhere*, and the more this can be illuminated the easier it will be for your partner to understand where you’re coming from.
Basically I’m just saying that people deserve a better explanation than “because it does” or “because I said so”, and I think figuring out how to give one will make communication better on both sides.
See, maybe I’m perfect after all!
I think that’s the problem, though. The implication that it’s somehow my job to maintain our household even though I have a regular full time job, too.
It almost makes me wish I had been born in the 30’s, when men and women had clearly defined roles. It seems like life and marriage were much simpler back then. Then again, I love jeans and voting, so I guess I’m stuck in the present.
Good job Lisa. My wife thought this article was absurd. I love how the article says “it’s not about the glass by the sink”. Yes it is and it’s also about instances that are equally absurd. This marriage was doomed from the word go.
This resonates with people because often when someone is leaving that cup out, they also aren’t doing everything you just listed. At least not without repeated asking and downright begging. I had to take out my own trash, and the last summer of my relationship I can count the times the lawn was mowed on one hand.
If you think it was just about the glass, you are sorely incorrect. As humans, one small transgression that irritates us, is about several but we focus on the minor one. Often we do this to test and see if we can get some sort of response about a little problem. The reaction or lack of one, tells us the bigger ones will not matter much either. I have been with my husband for 30 years. We both work, but I do EVERYTHING in the house. Including worrying about the money and trying to make sure he gets everything he wants. He is waited on hand and foot. He has almost died 2 times in the last 8 years. I was a caregiver to him 24/7 for 4 years. I was not treated well during this time, but I was committed to helping him through. Our entire relationship, I have had to remind, beg, plead anything to get him to do some small things that I could not do. Examples of this are changing light bulbs, knocking a spider web down (very high on the ceiling) etc. What he has taught me is… I cannot rely on anyone but myself. I stopped asking and started paying for things that took to long to get done. You see I have always believed in the “team” approach. I am not above doing anything. I did all of the yard work for almost 25 years. After being a care giver I just got to worn out to continue to beg, borrow and plead. I have shoved any and all resentment away and am trying to give him the best life I can before he passes away. Do I feel jilted sometimes…yes. But, I know I am doing the right thing. I stopped complaining and accepted what is. Not all of us are helpless, but when we are married; it would be nice to be treated as equals and have your spouse help you as much as you help them.
My husband does little things that irritate me all the time. It does not mean he doesn’t love me. It does not mean anything. ANY person who finds this annoying enough to divorce your spouse has the issues.
The fact he stood his ground and didn’t give in and she left him, shows he could not be controlled by her and as a result she left him.
He is not to blame at all.
What he is trying to say is that there was a deeper meaning to this.
My husband leaves glasses by the sink all the time. I don’t care about that. HOWEVER, I care about other things. When I tell him I don’t like certain things or I need certain things, he tries to address those things, or we come up with a compromise we can both live with. And vice versa.
For example, he wants the toilet paper on so it rolls off the top. I could care less about that. And it’s just TP. Who cares? BUT… I do it the way he wants it BECAUSE it matters to him.
And I think that is the point the author was trying to say – everyone has something that, no matter how trivial it seems objectively, matters to them. If you care about that person, you will try to respect that thing. For Sheldon Cooper on Big Bang Theory, it’s his spot. For one guy friend of mine, it’s never eating in his car (he is a fanatic about keeping it pristine.) For my Mom, it was important we took our shoes off and put on slippers in the house. So we did. For my Dad, it was giving him 15 minutes to himself when he first came home from work. And so on.
It doesn’t matter WHAT the particular thing is. What matters is that you respect the other person enough to honor that thing, no matter how trivial it seems to you and vice versa.
Exactly
Yes.
I agree with that. For my ex- husband, he didn’t like when I left my clothes hanging on the closet doorknob. He told me and I didn’t do it anymore. It was a little thing but it bugged him and because usually loved him, I respected that. And our divorce had nothing to do with those little things.
Wonderfully stated.
He “stood his ground” by refusing to put a glass in the dishwasher, even though he knew it made his wife feel disrespected. Expecting someone to clean up after themselves is hardly controlling.
Reblogged this on The Little Shaman.
I will be honest, I did not finish the article yet. But what I read so far makes me think, ” if you truly love someone, the glass does not matter.” She had other reasons to leave. I lovingly put the beer cans from the night before in the recycle bin, even though I have to march my butt outdoors in frigid temperatures to do it, because I adore that man, and I will never let anything like an empty glass by the sink or underpants on the floor ever detract from that. I am happy to be reminded of his presence in my life. God forbid I ever lose him, I will miss those things.
Life is short. Love means everything. Embrace it and let that other shit go.
What?! You love his underpants on the floor?! Make him pick up his own underpants! For fuck’s sake. It’s 2016.
Finish the story you will find it isn’t about the glass it is about what matters to the other person no matter how trivial
Sherry, that makes you an emotionally-dependent doormat, not a wife. Women with more respect for themselves take a man as her husband, not as her child.
Spoken like a newly married person. Add kids and 20 years of picking up his underwear, and you’ll get it.
Everyone, there is a book called The Five Love Languages that explains a lot.
Take the quiz online for free.
Umm, I really don’t think the glass issue is about your wife feeling insecure or that you don’t love her. It probably has more to do with not wanting to be with a man she perceives to be lazy and/or childlike. These are fundamentally unattractive traits that can infantalize men and make them less attractive over time.
THank you for wording it that way. What you just said is accurate. It IS what the writer expressed – the demonstration of a lack of caring or respect, yes – but also more importantly, not wanting to be with a man who is lazy, childlike, immature or lacking an important sense of self-care. It has one not feel safe. I’ve been dealing with this point within my relationship with someone who shrinks back from confrontation within challenges, who is messy, who flakes a lot, etc and it DOES create an environment of not feeling safe or like you’re with someone who’s not truly showing up in partnership. I don’t want to have to be the one carrying the sword and getting sh$& done because if I don’t, I know my partner won’t do it. I want someone I know will stand in the fire and do what has to be done. Who cares enough about our shared space that he respects how important it is to me (and us) and who does follow through in putting stuff away (with, of course, allowances for times you’re on the run or slip up a bit – that’s normal).
It has definitely slowly but surely eroded our relationship. I’ve tried to overcome and oversee it but in my gut I can’t continue on anymore, and also can’t make myself wrong anymore for feeling that way.
Fascinating article and great thread discussion here. I see BOTH sides of it AND I think the writer courageously expressed this usually hidden point of view.
Thank you.
THIS. This is what bothers me, and a lot of my friends about their husbands too unfortunately (it’s like a plague, did parents in the 80s forget to teach their sons how to do clean up after themselves/budget money/identify when an object is broken and then fix it?)
The writer talked about it too, how he realized that his wife started to feel like his mom. Picking up someone’s glass and placing it in the dishwasher is a small example. I am also the only one who initiates action on our bank account, home purchasing, child rearing, health care, donations, house repairs and projects, and vacations, just to name a few.
Sure he does do things around the house, he mows the lawn and will gladly go grocery shopping if I ask him, for example.
But he does not do it on his own initiative.
I feel like his mom. That’s just not sexy.
Lisa it’s not about the glass lol
I get this. Both sides of it. I really do.
One question though, with some background first. I am a widower. My wife passed away in August of 2015. Breast cancer.
Even with that pain of the loss, I still understand an important thing about her… even if it is not kind or pretty: she was emotionally abusive.
Multiple counselors (every single one) saw it and tried to get through to her that she jad a serious problem. Every one that I could get her to. Including the ones she picked. They all failed.
Now when I read this, I remember her using such things as weapons. Finding fault constantly. Relying upon her keen ability to find the pea under the matresses, which gave her the power to keep her on the offensive and everyone in her life (whom she feared could hurt her) on the defensive. It was all about control.
While I understand what you are saying, I think it is unhealthy to think you should make it your goal to do every little thing someone wants from you. There has to be some middle ground. I spent 20 years spiraling into depression and self loathing right up to the crumbling brink of suicide. I was never good enough. Thoughtful enough. Thorough enough. Etc, etc.
Sometimes a glass by the sink means what you say above. But sometimes it is an unreasonable bit of controlling bullshit.
It can be hard to know which. Sometimes almost impossible without objective outside expert help.
Absolutely accurate.
“because male and female emotional responses tend to differ pretty dramatically.”
… … …
because people’s emotional responses tend to differ dramatically.
And also men and women! Denying it for political correctness reasons doesn’t make it less true.
It’s hard to solve problems when we don’t deal in reality.
Men and women are demonstrably different. One gender is not better than another. One gender is not more worthy of respect than another.
But, men and women are different. When you deny it, you exacerbate the communication problems men and women have that end their relationships.
This is not ALWAYS true. There are few absolutes in life. But it is MOSTLY true.
If you read every comment, you’ll see a pattern emerging.
Thank you for striving for fairness. But it wasn’t necessary. I already know women are brilliant and successful and high-functioning and worthy of admiration and respect.
Problems like this dish thing? It typically begins when men argue with their wives under the false assumption that she is emotionally wired like him. That’s how he concludes that she’s “wrong.”
And it’s a major problem.
“But, men and women are different. When you deny it, you exacerbate the communication problems men and women have that end their relationships.”
THANK YOU!!!!!
Responses like this let me know you are single, divorced, or headed for a divorce.
Thank you for this article!!! It’s not just something I relate my husband to and definitely will forward for him to read, but helped me put some things in perspective!!! Us as humans sometimes forget that no matter how important or unimportant something is to you, it’s not always about you!! If we don’t want to have to please another person or think of someone other than yourself my suggestion is stay single…. When you marry someone– YOU as a single person is over!!! It’s US that matters now!!!!
Thanks again!!
Agreed, unless only ONE of us loves the “us” concept.
I disagree with this. I believe to have a successful relationship, each person has to have room to be imperfect, and both parties have to be mature/secure enough to realize that not everything the other person does is AT them.
You didn’t leave dishes by the sink to annoy her. (If you did, that’s definitely a deeper issue.)
I don’t leave water glasses around the house for the purpose of bothering my husband. He doesn’t throw away things I was intending to keep to make my life miserable. We both realize this and get over it.
We’re both human, have flaws, and make mistakes. The state of being flawed is not disrespectful–not allowing your mate to be flawed (in the little things), however, is.
Nice. Thank you!
You missed the point of the article. Putting the glass in the dishwasher was a little thing his wife legitimately cared about and told him to do multiple times. If it means so much to her and it was his mess to begin with anyway, why not spend those 4 little seconds to put the glass away? It’s the fact that he paid her no mind even after she told him repeatedly that translated into, “I really don’t care about what you care about.”
Think about it. If there was a little thing you did (not related to who you are as a person either mind you) that seriously peeved off your husband but required the slightest bit of effort from you to fix, wouldn’t you stop doing it? Hell, I just remembered how much my brother-in-law couldn’t stand it when I put a cup on the coffee table without a coaster underneath. I wasn’t even drinking anything that could leave a ring, but it mattered a whooooole lot to him so I got myself a coaster. It was the courteous thing to do, and I’m not a selfish bitch who thinks I’m above showing courtesy to my family when it’s asked of me.
There are plenty of things my husband does that could REALLY bother me…if I let them. My point is that I’ve had to let go of some things, one of them being the idea that I’m entitled to have “pet peeves.” Is it worth destroying our relationship to maintain my “right” to be annoyed about petty little stuff? NO!
Respect is a two-way street…it means that if he does something that I consider worth bringing up (which I try to do sparingly so as not to turn into a nag), I bring it up in a respectful way, and he doesn’t respond to the fact that I brought it up in a rude way. If the response itself is disrespectful, that’s a different story.
In the example with your brother-in-law, both of you have an obligation to show courtesy. If you forget to put a coaster, he could get one for you, or kindly point it out, and you could make a point to try to remember (rather than snap at him for pointing out or rolling your eyes or something). But if you still forget once in a while, does that make you a “selfish bitch?” Does that give him the right to treat you poorly about it? I don’t think so.
In our home, we may joke at each other about our faults as a way to keep things light but still gently remind each other to work on them in a roundabout way. The kids even get in on it–my daughter will frequently stick labels saying things like “Do not throw away!!” on items she wants to keep, knowing her dad’s tendency to throw away all the things. But when he still does it on occasion, we all know to be gracious and forgiving about it.
This is the key of what I’m talking about. Being gracious and forgiving is essential to a healthy relationship.
I almost like this. Except I can’t shake off a feeling that the author has missed the point yet again (or is just inventing things a bit to make a palatable (popular) post.. Because it seems that the dishes rather were the last straw and not what they are described to be in the post..
I think that some of these responses are missing the entire point of this post. The point is not that you should be a slave to your significant other. The point is not that all the author ever did wrong was leave dishes by the sink. The point is that little things matter, and if you habitually disregard your spouse’s feelings – even over things you don’t think are that big of a deal – you’re eventually going to end up divorced. THAT is the point.
Right! Everything you said was accurate, and the post was totally a wake up for me in terms of how I can be more considerate of my husband when it comes to the little things that clearly irk him as I’ve recently noticed he tries to do for me!
Yes, I agree that there is really great information here in this post for everybody. The author did a fantastic job.
There is another point that everyone seems to be missing: If they’re NOT doing those little things, it MIGHT be because you haven’t properly expressed WHY they are important.
I quote:
” They don’t think it’s possible that their husbands don’t know how their actions make her feel because she has told him, sometimes with tears in her eyes, over and over and over and over again how upset it makes her and how much it hurts.
And this is important: **Telling a man something that doesn’t make sense to him once, or a million times, doesn’t make him “know” something.** Right or wrong, he would never feel hurt if the same situation were reversed so he doesn’t think his wife SHOULD hurt. It’s like, he doesn’t think she has the right to (and then use it as a weapon against him) because it feels unfair.
…
Once someone figures out how to help a man equate the glass situation (which does not, and will never, affect him emotionally) with DEEPLY wounding his wife and making her feel sad, alone, unloved, abandoned, disrespected, afraid, etc. … Once men really grasp that and accept it as true even though it doesn’t make sense to them?
Everything changes forever. ”
THIS is actually the main point of this article.
Not “men are doing this stupid thing and should stop it”
but
“Men and women have this rift in emotional communication and I want to explain to them both how the other side feels in a way they can understand so they can fix it”
Do you have any advice to offer? Telling women they need to make their husbands understand how they feel isn’t exactly helpful. If we knew how to make them understand, I’m pretty sure we’d already be doing it.
Yes. Little things matter, and people need to remember that they are not the only person in the relationship, and therefore how they think or feel about something isn’t all that matters.
No no… I think that most of us get that. What we are saying is that there are limits and a cup in the sink is such an incredibly miniscule issue that NO ONE EVER should make THAT a line in the sand.
It’s a metaphor, dude. The cup is a metaphor.
Exactly.
My above reply ended up at the bottom of the thread… I was actually agreeing with the original comment by Sister Sindelle at the top of the thread. 🙂 I liked what Jason had to say as well…
🙂
The glass is a metaphor people. Couldn’t be stated more clearly. This article has so much truth to it and hopefully will enlighten some closed- minds.
Yup yup. It’s interesting to read through the comments though. I’m discovering just what lengths so many overly-dependent doormats and selfish, ego-centric people will go to defend their give-all or take-all attitudes.
100% true!
This article is so spot on for me. So many people are writing about how if you love the person, it does not matter about the glass. I don’t think a lot of people are really “getting” the article. She didn’t really divorce him over him leaving the glass beside the sink. It runs so much deeper than that. For women, one way that a husband can show his love for her is by doing little things to help her out daily. I am a mom and I work full time and my husband does as well. I love my husband to pieces, but unfortunately, I do not get the help that I so desire to help make my life (all of our lives) much easier/happier. When you’re a working mom who takes care of the home, runs kids all around, and does many other things on top of that…a husband has no idea what effect he can have on his marriage just by helping do little things. And it’s not just that, there’s so much more that he can do to show his love for her. Just saying it, means nothing. It is in your actions that truly show your love for your spouse. After years and years of this cycle occurring, (with no help from the spouse) it can make a women bitter and have such an effect on her in a negative way. Men truly sometimes cannot see what is right in front of them. Doing little things for your spouse could do wonders for your marriage, I wish more people would see that. It is my hope that more men would see things as the author who wrote this does, and before it’s too late. I do not say all this to bash men, there are plenty of good men out there and many that help pitch in and make things easier for the household and family. Thank you for writing this article. If truly touched me and made me cry, honestly because I feel so much like the “wife” you described. Again, I know there was so much more to the story, but you def got it spot on for me, thank you.
Sigh.
Everyone is seizing on the part that THEY identify with — the part where the man sounds like he is being stupid and insensitive, or simply that they lazy and aren’t pitching in with the housework — and missing the actual point of the article.
This article is about two-way communication.
– Yes, he does not understand your feelings and why you’re having them, and this article is trying to explain your feelings to him.
– However, the fact that he doesn’t understand your feelings **is partly because you haven’t explain them to him**, and this article is trying to explain to YOU why he doesn’t understand.
Simply telling a man that something upsets you doesn’t tell him WHY. It doesn’t make him understand, it only tells him that you’re angry with him. If your feelings don’t make any sense to him — if he wouldn’t feel the same way in your place — then without any further explanation it is going to sound to him like you’re just blaming him for insignificant things because you’re being irritable. Then one person feels disrespected, and another feels victimized, and nobody wins. Instead, explain to him, as this article does, WHY the tiny thing you want him to do is so important. Not that it IS important, but WHY it is important.
This article is not about things men need to learn. It is about things men and women need to do to change their understanding of each other.
The author actually states quite clearly that most women do try to tell their husbands over and over WHY something upsets them, but that the husband still does not get it:
“I think a lot of times, wives don’t agree with me. They don’t think it’s possible that their husbands don’t know how their actions make her feel because she has told him, sometimes with tears in her eyes, over and over and over and over again how upset it makes her and how much it hurts.”
The author doesn’t say that women do not explain the real problem. He states there is no way women CAN explain the real problem so that men can receive it and take it seriously. That is something totally different. He also ends the article with the idea that in order to fix the situation, men need to “grasp [the real problem] and accept it as true even though it doesn’t make sense to them.”
Certainly women can use the information here to help us understand things, but there is no way to talk to a rock. You can say whatever you want however you want, but the rock ain’t hearing it. In other words, men need to stop dismissing this kind of thing as just “hysterical, emotional women’s bullshit,” “controlling them,” or “nagging just to be a bitch.” It isn’t any of these things. You hear plenty of jokes from men about how emotional women are, and how much “stupid little things” mean to us; there are a million songs about it and movies, too, so it’s not like it’s some secret. Guys who care about their marriages might want to stop laughing and start listening before it’s too late. You can only make someone feel disrespected, hurt and unappreciated for so long before they’re just going to leave.
I think this emotionally sensitive screw ball just came outta the closet. A glass by the sink is no more than a glass by the sink. The less times i leave a glass by the sink the more times i do laundry or let my wife get a new car….. It’s just about control and no one should be controlling each other.
Psssst. “Screwball” is one word.
Good luck in your relationships, man!
Its not about the glass nor control , its about one desire to understand their spouse’s needs (or ignore them, resent them, resist them, etc). If you DO think its about the glass or control then you are focused on YOU and in a working relationship, the focus needs to be outward, not inward.
Excellent comment, Jean!!
I’m sure the glass was just one of many things, just the last straw. I don’t know if all men do this, but with my husband it would be a competition of sorts, ‘she can’t tell me what to do’. But it bothered her, you knew it did, whether you understood or not. So every time she saw a glass by the sink, it coloured her perception of you in a bad way. As time went on, there was more ‘bad colour’ than good. People may not ‘keep score’ in a conscious way, though some do, but it’s still there somewhere in the background. “He makes me feel good/appreciated/loved/whatever’ vs ‘he makes me feel frustrated/unloved/unappreciated/bad/whatever’, and the relationship works on whichever is predominate. Yes, love can mitigate some of it, but not all.
So, I joined this blog, but I can’t believe how infantile many of the responses are (no offence). I am on my second marriage and happy! We respect eachother and give eachother what we need.
My first husband expected me to do everything (and work full time). I asked him for nearly 2 years if he could ‘do the dishes-EVER?’ When he finally did, I nearly fell off my rocker, but said nothing. His response was: “Did you notice I did the dishes?” To which I simply replied: “Yes, I did”. The next thing he said enraged me…..”Well, aren’t you going to THANK me?”
ONE of many reasons why we divorced.
Relationships MUST have mutual respect for ‘eachothers’ needs in order to be a success!!!
Funny in my house it is the opposite. My husband nags and yells when i leave a cup in the sink. We constantky fight over how he is a neat freak and i am tidy. I am by no means a slob but my clean is not clean to him my put away is not his show home feel. I have 3 children 6 3 and 1 and he expects me to keep my house show home ready 24/7. This to me is very hard to accomplish on my own. As the only time he helps with the kids is when i am away for work. Oh ya did i say that i must manage all of this hold while worlong 40hrs aweek. So o i get your article in some cases. If i get a divorce it will be for a cup left in the sink.
I have a hard time believing she left because of a glass…no matter how many times you left it by the sink. I just feel there had to be something more. If it was truly the glass, what would have been next on her list if you had initially complied. Maybe it wasn’t you at all. Everyone has flaws or has habits that irritate their significant other. You can try to change someone’s irritating habits…but if you fail…pick your battles and don’t sweat the small stuff.
Did you not actually read the post? As he said, IT WASN’T ABOUT THE GLASSES! God, I despair of the human race when I read comments like this.
this made me snort-laugh, That Girl
You and me both… it’s like they only read a third of the way in, at most.
Yes. I did read the article. Maybe you should read it again. It started WITH THE GLASS….and I’ve no doubt you despair with an attitude like that.
I seriously worry about reading comprehension capability in our country. This article WAS NOT about the glass!
Yes. I did read the article. Maybe you should read it again. It started WITH THE GLASS….and I’ve no doubt you despair with an attitude like that.
This is a small work of genius and great domestic insight. Thank you for your perspicacity, and for posting!
A few comments are right, you must take it in context. I am surprised by how many people missed the point of the article. The very excellent take home message is to find out which little things matter to your spouse, and do those that matter to them. It is NOT about doing every little thing
This story resonated with me for so many reasons. Thank you for your willingness to share.
The problem with this article is the assumption that you two were ever good for each other in the first place. You, quite reasonably, don’t give a shit about a cup near the sink. She, quite reasonably, does. Neither of you are wrong, no one is to blame, despite your self-loathing subtext (that she implanted in you). You just weren’t good for each other, and maybe you should do some soul searching to figure out why you ever got married.
If your relationship had been healthy she would have realized that a cup by the sink is just a cup by the sink, not a signal of your contempt for her; contempt that only manifests in these subtle, conspiracy theory-esque ways. Her seeing this in you is likely a projection of her own internalized hatred for herself the source of which only she can know. She knew she got mad when she saw the cup by the sink, and didn’t have the wherewithal to question herself as to where this anger was really coming from, but she knew where the cup came from, so up on the cross you go! Like you say, the cup isn’t what’s important, but it’s because she would have found something, anything else. The problem is not that you were transgressing (nobody’s perfect, and it’s just a friggin’ cup), but that she was keeping track.
Yeppers!
oh my goodness. this. yes.
Yeah I think that’s a bunch of bs. She couldn’t be willing to settle the hell down with her demands? You can’t blame yourself for her unwillingness to compromise in her demands of something so petty.
When most of us argue, whatever we argue about is almost never the real issue. Maybe an honest discussion about the real topic (like I don’t feel valued or respected or you don’t give me enough attention, etc.) is better than doing battle over an inanimate object.
If a couple truly can’t resolve a difference of opinion about glasses in a dishwasher they’re doomed to failure anyway. Divorce each other and take your problems to your next relationship…
Pussy. Stop being a bitch.
Awesome!
I have never read something that rang so true!! It might be different for everyone but I personally get exactly what he means. I love my husband dearly but I could not agree more. He does not get it when I try to explain to him and nothing changes because he thinks it is about the glass(so to speak). This article puts both sides into perspective.
For years, my ex thought the problem, basically, was dishes by the sink. We had the same damn argument all the time about him not doing the dishes.
Actually, we divorced because he was a sexually coercive jerk, and the rug I tried to put on that issue was too fragile to stand up to him being a sexually coercive jerk who also never washed a dish. He could maybe have bought some time by scrubbing some pots. No promises.
So I doubt that your marriage crumbled because of dishes by the sink. Really. There’s always both bigger and smaller things.
I am glad to see you actually “got it”..the underlying reasons,not just the face value part.the
“dont listen to what i am saying,hear what i MEAN”..shame it came AFTER the divorce.
Thank you for this post – it’s something both men and women (whether in straight or gay relationships) need to hear. I’m sad that a bunch of commenters didn’t actually read what you wrote, which comes down to the symbolic meaning of things that drive people nuts. Sometimes putting in a tiny effort about something you don’t care about to show your partner that you care about them (e.g. I will watch certain movies I just don’t like because my spouse LOVES them) is really part of a good relationship. I would do as much for my friends, why not my spouse? I must say, the number of commenters above that seem to think this is about the glasses themselves or one partner being enslaved to the other really brings home to me why so many couples don’t make it.
You said it.
I said this once already today: I shouldn’t be surprised so many people missed the point. Because statistically speaking, this should make absolutely no sense to more than half of the readers.
#divorcerate
Thank you very much for reading and commenting.
To be fair, it might make more sense to do a comparison between abstract and concrete thinkers. (If those terms are even considered substantive anymore neurobiologist != psychologist!) It may well be that there are plenty of folks who aren’t into metaphors but do just fine with marriage (at least with the right partner.)
This.
This is ridiculous. If she loved you, she’d find your quirks endearing. You need to go back and do some soul searching. Chances are that if you were an ass about picking your glass up, you were probably an ass about a lot of other things as well.
You’ve managed to nail it AND completely miss the point all in the same comment!
Thanks for checking it out. I promise to go back and do more soul searching. Kinda my thing.
This is too funny that I stumbled upon this article. This explains my situation EXACTLY and my husband and I of 5 years are on the brink of separating.
We have two little kids. I work full time, he works full time. However, when we come home, he thinks he’s entitled to sit on the couch, watch tv, be on his phone, while I slave over the kids, make dinner, clean up, and get them ready for bed. Sometimes he will even go to bed early.
I have asked him repeatedly to help me out. My thinking is this… If we’re both working and we both have to pay half of the bills, then we need to split housework/taking care of the kids 50/50. To me this is perfect logic. I don’t understand when people say “well women should do things for their husbands to show them they love them.” Look, I’m not asking my husband to do things for me, I’m asking him to HELP me. I don’t set MY glasses on the counter and demand that HE put them in the dishwasher. No. I want maybe for me to do dishes one day and my husband do dishes one day. Or whatever.
I ask him to do help me clean the house or pick up before or after the kids go to bed. He says he “doesn’t know what to do” and he needs me to create him a list. For 5 years I’ve been creating lists and let me tell you, it doesn’t work. Lists work for maybe a day, but then he forgets about it and then wants me to make another one. He says he couldn’t careless about the house being dirty or the dishes. He also doesn’t see the big deal in me making another list. Maybe it’s because I don’t have time to raise a 30 year old “man.” I don’t have time to write little to-do lists that I am going to have to do for my kidskin day. I need a MAN in my life. I don’t have time to be my husbands mommy.
Have you tried being that direct with him? Some guys truly just that dance. I totally understand the frustration that he doesn’t get it without you coming Streigt out with what should be obvious.
I feel for you. There is a book called “Five Love Languages” by Gary Chapman. I’m not religious at all, but there is valuble information in the book. Your husband is not speaking your love language, which just by the little information you wrote speaks volumes to me. If he just could lend you a hand, you’d be happy. Anything at all….Sometimes you need to hit them over the head with a fying pan (figuratively speaking of course) to make them understand what you need out of the relationship. In turn, what he needs out of the relationship is vastly different. Rather than writing lists, come up with a contract: You will do X for him and in turn he will do X for you.
I truly hope this helps. If he is a learning man, and loves and respects you, he will make the effort.
Good luck
I have to thank you for writing this, from the bottom of my heart. I do get upset about the glass, and the dirt tracked in all over my freshly cleaned floor. I just never understood WHY the stupid glass and the totally cleanable floor mattered so much to me. My husband has, in fact, told me all the reasons why I shouldn’t feel the way I feel. It always feels like he’s telling me that my feelings simply do not matter. Not to him, not to the rest of the world. So I stopped mentioning it at all, grit my teeth and do EVERYTHING but earn the money. All this as he tells me how lucky I am that he’s so much better than all the other husbands and fathers on planet Earth. You have helped me to understand what my husband, who really is a good man, has never explained to me in a way I can understand. He is not actively, consciously disrespecting me. He just does not get why I react the way I do because he doesn’t react the way I do. I have been trying to understand him for years, and I think you’ve given me the key to that understanding. Maybe, if I show him what you’ve written, he will finally see me.
He has to tell you he is so much better than all the other husbands. Really, thinks mighty highly of himself. My huband once told me my opinion was wrong! Light bulb moment!!! Well I grew some balls and stopped that crap. Do not let someone else put value on your life, your thoughts, your feelings, no one not even someone that promise to love, honor and cherish you has that right!. Don’t grit your teeth at him dear. All that will come out eventually when you just can’t stand being torn down anymore.
It’s because men assume women are supposed to be slaves that clean up after them without complaint. Even if she has a hard day at work or the kids are sick it doesn’t matter, you expect her to clean up after you and feel lucky she has you to clean up after.. If women treated men this way they would leave too!
I have this to say.
1) As a man, you should be totally willing to give on the miniscule things, once you find out that they are a bone of contention for your spouse.
2) But, on the flip side of that coin, ladies, THAT LIST SHOULDN’T BE A MILE LONG. That’s called emotional slavery.
3) Women, you should be willing to assess your own pet peeves and desires (because women statistically tend to have more of these than men), as to their worthiness or not. Don’t just ask yourself, ask a good representative sample of people, not just your female friends/coworkers. Ask some sane people if your request sounds crazy, because you might be surprised at the answers you get.
4) If you’re willing to divorce someone because they absolutely do not want to do something trivial (that is absolutely proven to be trivial), then you’ve got the problem, not the other person.
I totally get both sides of this argument. I really do. I’m the guy that does those little things for my wife, but let’s keep it within reason. She can’t just give me the chore list and say, ‘do everything on this list, or I’m going to feel like you don’t love and respect me’, in order to keep me slaving away, because she wants to watch TV at night. I do give her her chill time, though. I also don’t blow up or have a meltdown about trivial things… because I can feel just as unloved about that crap if I choose to. I just choose not to. Trivial things are trivial things, and I would feel silly about feeling unloved or disrespected because of them. I totally have my pet peeves, but I do my best to keep the list small, and to not include things that my spouse ‘has to do extra things’ in that list.
How about, “Hey. We haven’t cleaned the kitchen in a few days. What say we put off this night of TV watching and go clean it together?” Neither one of us wants to do it, because we’re both spent from the day, but we get off our lazy asses and go do it, because we BOTH like a clean kitchen. It makes US feel better.
And you know what? When we do that on a regular basis, a glass sitting by the sink doesn’t make someone feel unloved, because the rest of the kitchen is clean.
Pro Tip, though, fellas – Don’t leave the glass by the sink. Leave some water or drink in it, and put it in the refrigerator.
Based on the article, the husband didn’t really care either way about the glass. He kind of thought he might want to use it again. Key word: might. But it really wasn’t a big deal to him. The wife, who it seems continually put that glass back in the dishwasher– cared. She had a strong preference to have dirty dishes put away- probably because it took away from the feeling that the kitchen was finished being cleaned. Who knows.
BIG IDEA: if YOU don’t care much about an issue, and your partner REALLY does, it’s kinder to do it their way. Little things add up– either positively or negatively. If you LOVE mess, that’s one thing. If you simply don’t MIND mess, that’s another entirely. Just like cake. I prefer chocolate cake; my husband STRONGLY prefers orange vanilla. I’m usually cool with choosing his over mine… because I care about how he feels.
Think of it this way: If your partner works really hard to build a chair, you don’t leave their chair outside in the rain to rot. If your partner makes a painting, you don’t have a waterfight in the room it’s sitting in. If your partner has been playing a video game for a week, you don’t start a new game over their saved game.
And- big jump here- if your partner cleans the house, you do your part to help keep it that way.
Showing you respect each other’s accomplishments goes a long way towards demonstrating your respect for each other. Showing you don’t respect the amount of work they put into a project, or doing things that creates more work for them… is hurtful. It doesn’t matter whether you personally care about their chair, painting, video game, painting, or tidy room.
And.. if you repeatedly show disrespect for the things your partner cares about… not just a single thing, but many things… they’re going to feel like you don’t value them, and want to be around people who do.
^^^^All these things, particularly about the cake 😀
My husband and I have been together for 30 years. I came to terms with the fact that he is blind to Things That Need to Get Done. So I make lists and ask him to do things – not because I’m his mother, but because he doesn’t prioritize things the way I do. In turn, he has been teaching me to take life less seriously, and about the joys of astronomy and Texas Hold’em.
And yes, he finally learned to put the glass in the dishwasher.
Love this. So what I want to say but can never find the right way to say it.
I enjoyed the read and agree that most men wouldn’t think about this situation if the wife’s perspective. However; there are some husband’s (men) who experience the same situation and feel the same as the wife you described in this article. Many of times I find myself having to ask my spouse numerous times to do something over and over again as she does me. It’s not that we don’t love or respect the other person, we simply forget at times due to whatever is going on in our heads and/or day that has us not paying attention to our actions. I agree with the man on his thoughts, but I sympathize with the wife more due to what I experienced and from her state of mind.
Some scarily clueless comments….did these peeps ready the same article? Great read…
People, it’s like the spoon scene in the Matrix – there is no glass. It’s about having the ability and willingness to consider how your daily actions affect another human being and make adjustments or discuss compromises to keep both parties happy. She didn’t divorce him because of a glass, just like I didn’t divorce my husband because of the dirty socks between the couch cushions or the argument about me asking him to take the trash down to the garage when I had just had surgery and was under doctor’s orders not to exert myself/use stairs/carry stuff. Those things are just manifestations of larger, deepers problems that left unchecked, will probaby get ugly or result in a split.
Communication is magical.
Nail on the head. Thanks sending to hubby so he can understand me
Sometimes it’s just a glass on the sink that finally pushes you to make a change. Glad I did.
Interesting opinion But…………….with my wife and I, it’s opposite. She leaves the stuff laying about. Narks me a lot.
Then I saw the Men this, I that, Male this…..and every time I saw that, I switched off by probably 10% an instance.
Didn’t take long for me to bail on the article completely.
Sorry Drew. I don’t write for everyone. I write for men like me. Guys who are going to lose their wives and families if they don’t learn quickly what I learned much too late.
I don’t know what it’s like to be a woman or a wife. I will never pretend to. Only know what it’s like to be like me.
Thanks for trying to get through it. If you’d read 500 other things I’d written, maybe you’d have reacted differently.
Drew, the core message is still the same. Find a time to sit down with your wife and explain to her just how serious of an issue her actions are becoming. If you’re feeling disrespected, then tell her with all the love and compassion you can muster (honey catches more flies than vinegar afterall). It’s better than burying the issue and letting it fester. Open the conversation in a way that lets her know you’re open to her input as well (make it about “us” not “me vs you”), be ready to compromise a bit (I’m sure she has a few issues about you that narks her too), and of course, have a few pointers from reputable Google sites to help smooth over any wounded egos that bringing up flaws may create.
Good luck! Proper communication is key to a happy marriage.
Because of this damn article my girlfriend an I had a huge fight. Thanks a lot…..
Shit. Sorry Zac. And I mean that.
The problem, ironically, has nothing to do with dishes, and everything to do with our inability to speak to one another in ways that make any sense to our partner.
I hope things are cool in the morning.
Though it doesn’t sound like any fun at all… if it hit something hard enough to touch off a fight, maybe something important isn’t getting heard, by one of you? (Or both of you?) I’m guessing it’s not really the article, y’know?
Bingo. Let’s not forget about the straw that broke the camel’s back afterall. Obviously something was already rotten in the state of Denmark.
Yes. I did read the article. Maybe you should read it again. It started WITH THE GLASS….and I’ve no doubt you despair with an attitude like that.
Donna. I wrote it and would be happy to clarify. It’s not about the glass.
Sorry for the confusing headline. Thank you for reading.
Sounds like your wife wasted a lot of water. I’m sure your wallet is a lot happier.
My marriage became “fun” again when I did two things:
1) Stopped telling my husband what to do. He’s a grown man. He knows how to “adult” (run a house, change a diaper, keep kids and dogs alive) even if it isn’t up to my standards, which is perfectly fine. Because my standards aren’t our marriage’s standards
2) Communicate with him when I am mad, sad, happy, expecting something, etc. And ask he does the same. This way he doesn’t have to read my mind and I don’t have failed expectations. Vice versa.
If I hate the cup on the sink I tell him it pisses me off because _______. If he says he wants to keep the cup there to use it the rest of the day then we will work out a compromise.
Because that is what marriage is about: communication and compromise.
Not every situation can be wrapped up in a nice neat bow but I can attest to being a spouse who very much enjoys my marriage still after 12 years and 3 kids.
I enjoyed your article and took away some good points. Thank you for sharing. This will be great discussion material for us. I’m sorry that things didn’t work out for your marriage but I hope that you’ve both found happiness.
Matt, I think you clearly explained self-less love (minus the potty mouth, ha!). It’s not easy and it goes totally against our self-centered nature.
Love is a choice, the choice to put the other first, even when you don’t feel like it. I think if we all had that mindset no one would be left out – I take care of you and you take care of me = everyone’s needs/wants are met by the other person = everyone happy.
If your wife did not remarry, I think it’s not too late to ask her to “marry” you again. Love and forgiveness go a long way. Good luck!
This describes my current situation, with the exception of the glass. It is the fact my actions made my wife feel disrespected, unappreciated and unloved. She has become insecure in our relationship because of my actions. My question is, now that I realize it. How can I communicate this to my wife. She is so hurt and angry with m?
Have her read this and tell her you get, and that it may take some time, but you really will take this to heart. But she might have to give you some reminders as change doesn’t come overnight. Good luck!
Hi. If you are still in contact with her maybe you could show her this and invite a conversation about it. You could explain that you’ve started to understand her feelings and that you’re willing to demonstrate how much you care.
Obviously people communicate in different ways but I think showing her the article would show that you care at meast a little.
Good luck.
Tim,
You can show her. In the situation that you wrote about you chose leaving a dirty glass by the sink, clean the dirty glass. If she felt disrespected, unappreciated, and unloved because you didn’t fold the laundry, fold the laundry. Whatever the metaphorical equivalent is, do it. Do what she wanted you to do that proves you do love and respect her. If this just can not apply to your situation in any way, you could show her this blog. Explain that you finally understand, you are willing to change, and tried to prevent millions of men from making the same communication mistake! I hope that it works out!
I’m sitting her reading this. Stunned. You just described in the exact words why I ended my 23 plus year marriage. I did say it just like that. But all he said was it didn’t matter to him if the house was a mess and I said it mattered to me and what I should matte r to someone
I cried while reading this to my husband. It’s so accurate that i felt relieved to know i’m not alone in the desperation of being partners. As much as i love taking care of him, i also need to be taken care of. Thank you for this insight
I was just booger bawling reading this to my husband!
Hi there I just stared my blog, if you could check it out and share it if you liked it that would help me get started! Thank you.
My husband found this and asked me too read it, I’m amazed how well you captured how alot of people I don’t think just women feel. We have to be intentional in the things we do and how our actions affect our partners. Thank you for this it’s a great reminder
You are so right about all of it.
At least you have figured it out now so you can be a better partner in the future to a lucky lady.
What’s sad is most men probably won’t even click on this blog article because it doesn’t interest them and they don’t think they need to hear it. I wish you would give a speech that all men of the world must attend haha.
Unfortunately, I never ended my relationship with my husband – all of the things described in the blog happened (except in the beginning of our marriage there was no dishwasher – we’ve been married for 53 years now). I can’t really bother reading this to him at this point because he has dementia, as well as insulin diabetes, and I am his full-time caregiver. He would not even understand the article, nor would he remember that he never, ever, helped me with anything. Being a caregiver has its own set of issues – too much to go into here. I definitely feel like his mother, as well as his nurse. At times, I know that I should have left him a long time ago because I was definitely not respected. At other times, I know that if I wasn’t still in his life, he wouldn’t be alive today. It’s a difficult situation for me, but I would advise all younger people who are not happy in their relationships and who can see that things are not going to change, to get out while you can! Things are so different now for women than they were back when I was young and had two young children. Divorce was not so accepted as it is today.
Your comment choked me up a little. I guess I’m where you were fifty years ago! My husband never helps me with anything or tries to make things easier for me but never hesitates to burden me with his problems. I do everything around the house he won’t even do the typical “man jobs” like mowing or taking out trash. The not helping is depressing but the making things actually harder for me thing is driving me to the brink. Being excessively loud when he knows I’ve just put the baby down to sleep and then yelling at me like I’m such a nagging bitch if I ask him to be quiet, leaving his soda can and plate on the coffee table minutes after he watched me clear it and wipe it down, leaving dangerous things lying around where the kids can get them, accidently dropping coins all over the floor and just walking off like it’s not his problem. I’m constantly finding things in our baby’s mouth that he’s dropped on the floor and not bothered to pick up. All of my worries and chores are mine and all of his are mine too, the moment he realizes he’s missing his phone or wallet he’s hollering at me to stop whatever I’m doing and find it for him like he’s so helpless and then he’s never grateful when I find it, he insists I must have moved it and so it’s my fault if he’s missed any calls or whatever. He’s a terrible procrastinator so I’m always rescuing him and doing work for him that’s he’s put off and is too tired to do. I’ll stay up all night writing presentations for him, have a really busy day with the kids, have dinner ready for him when he walks in the door and all I get is complaints that the kids aren’t well behaved enough and I never initiate sex with him blah blah. I’ve just been trying to get along as peacefully as possible as I don’t want our children see us fight but I wonder a lot if it’s even worth it, I’m only in my twenties and I feel like a joyless shell of a person. I used to be so happy before he was a part of my life.
After reading your comment, I’m a little concerned for you. Please don’t take this the wrong way, but it sounds like your husband may have some severe controlling issues and could eventually turn physically abusive…not just emotionally, mentally, and verbally. Please think about possibly seeing a counselor, or seeking a support group of some sort. I am by absolutely no means an expert, and normally I don’t post on these articles, but I couldn’t overlook your comment. I feel that if you don’t get some help in learning how to teach your husband how to help you, you’re going to have a very exhausting life, and your child will grow up thinking that type of relationship dynamic is the way it’s supposed to be. I’ll be praying for you.
Emmy, you have children with this man. DON’T stay with him for their sake. Ask yourself if this is the type of relationship you want to model for them.
Is this a relationship you would want them to chose for themselves?
They see everything. They know way more than we think they do and they will chose one or both of you to model their lives after.
Think about that before deciding what to do.
It is clearly not working for you. It clearly won’t work well for them either.
If something isn’t working, do something else.
Emmy, The description of how you give, give, give in your marriage but never receive any kind of support or respect truly hurts my heart. Words such as exploitation and abuse come to mind. Please don’t continue to subject yourself and your children to that kind of treatment; that kind of treatment is not love. In my opinion, you have two choices for you and your children: 1) either seek outside counsel as a couple in an attempt to change and improve the relationship or 2) get out. You and your children should receive love and respect from your husband rather than being used. No one deserves to be treated the way you describe, and I would guess you don’t want your children seeing how you are treated then believe that’s the way a marriage should be when they’re adults.
Emmy, you know what the answer is. I stayed in a marriage just like that, for five years; it drags you down so far you think you aren’t worth climbing out. But you are. I’m 25 years further down that road now, married to a man who respects me and helps me as much as I help him. It’s night and day. Leave, before your kids think what they see is what a marriage should look like. Good luck.
That breaks my heart to read. You don’t have a partner, which is what each of us needs. I hope you find happiness in life again, and I hope he realizes what he’s missing out on before it’s too late. Hugs to you.
I would kill for a lady that does half of what you do. You should leave, and then see if he wises up. If not, you’ll be ok..you’re doing all the hard stuff already.
Wow, Emmy. Your life and relationship sound really unbalanced and unsustainable. Makes me think of the saying that, in a relationship with no fighting, someone isn’t getting their needs met. But you are holding it together for your kids, many kudos to you for managing as well as you have so far. Your husband can’t really be happy being so selfish, I would guess that he feels guilty for the way he treats you, but represses that, to try to avoid having to deal with it, but then that would always make him uncomfortable around you. Then of course it’s human nature to cast the shadow of our failings on others– it’s so painful to us to recognize things we don’t like about ourselves that we project them on others without realizing it sometimes. He has a lot of growing up to do. Some of what you describe actually sounds a lot like my husband: not even doing the typical guy chores, and leaving messes in his wake, and needing urgent help finding misplaced items! When our boys were small, he would also spill coins out of pockets and think it shouldn’t be any big deal– until our 1 year old went to the ER with a dime stuck in his esophagus– he was fine, but it could have killed him, of course. Actually I was still picking up his spilled coins after that! But he *would* let me know, periodically, in heartfelt ways, how much he appreciated everything I did, how important I was to him, and how much he loved me, and I decided that for me, that was enough. Far from ideal, but enough that I chose not to pursue the upheaval and strain (and lasting stressful impact on kids) of divorce. Although in an ideal relationship, each partner gives 100%, I estimated that he only gave 50% compared to my 100%… but that was still more help than I would get as a single mom. I would dig in my heels and fight when I felt he was crossing a line, though– and I still do. Standing up for yourself and for what’s fair can be a positive thing to model for your kids as well, even if it entails a heated argument. For instance, you need your sleep. You could consider saying, it’s not worth the impact on your health and well-being to stay up late doing his work– you need your rest! You can make your own bedtime non-negotiable (except when the kids need you/ a health emergency, etc.). Tell him in advance that the pattern has to change. That is your choice. Enough sleep deprivation can turn anyone into a joyless shell. Very best wishes and blessings to you!
I think you are in an abusive relationship and you need to talk to a religious leader or a counselor. Get some help from someone!
As much as you want it to be, if he doesn’t change, it’s not worth it. You deserve to be loved and respected. He is not loving you or your children when he lives only for himself. You need to think about what is best for you and your children, and sometimes a nuclear family isn’t the best. Just being together for the sake it of it, doesn’t help anyone. Good luck and hope you have courage to do what you need to.
Emmy, I have not experienced what you are experiencing, however a close family member of mine has lived this way for way too many years.
I can tell you that it doesn’t get better.
The more you try to “keep the peace”, the worse their behaviour becomes. Maybe because they feel as if they are getting away with it, maybe they feel it’s perfectly OK because you are “allowing” their behaviour. I don’t really know, I am just guessing.
What I do know is, it won’t get better by trying to keep the peace and ignoring the negative, hurtful behaviour.. You have the power to do something. You can try counselling – if your husband would try counselling, it could be beneficial.
Or if he is not open to change the way he treats you, you have the power and the right to leave. You do not need to be miserable any longer.
I wish you all the best and I hope that you can find your happiness again xx
I’m so sorry, and I just wanted to say that — you shouldn’t have to live that way. No one should. And I wish you all the best, whatever that is.
Honey, you have three choices…. 1. Stay and be miserable, overworked, and under-appreciated, 2. Go to marriage counseling and continue to be miserable, overworked and under-appreciated, or 3. Get the hell out while you are still young and find someone who will treat you as an important equal and respect you enough to be your partner, not another child for you to take care of. If it were me, I would go with #3. Good luck to you. You so clearly need it.
I can relate so much to you in your situation. I left my husband over a year ago despite having four kids (8, 7, 4, 1) and having been a stay at home mom for several years. Luckily, my family was there for me to help me get started. I feel so happy now, even 17 months later I still sometimes feel more layers of myself and the freedom to me return and it feels really good. It’s hard living in an abusive relationship when it isn’t physically abusive because it’s hard to realize that’s what it is. I spent years and years trying, thinking all I can do is change me and pray for God to change me that maybe if I could be better it could change our dynamic but he was like a bottomless well and the more I gave, the more he demanded and was increasingly less satisfied. What helped me to realize what was going on the most was reading, “Why does he do that?” by Lundy Bancroft. I will also mention that one of my big motivating factors was my kids, staying with him was hurting them. I felt like my son was being trained to become an abuser as he had started mimicing some of the behavior his father displaying towards me and I was teaching my girls to accept this way of being minimized, disrespected, etc. I’m not saying you should leave, you’ll have to decide what’s right for you but I would suggest reading that book and really think about what you can do to instigate real change. Good luck.
Your husband sounds like he’s emotionally abusive
Your comment is so heartbreaking Emmy. That’s not at all how it’s supposed to be, or how it has to be. You deserve so much better. :'(
Wow. It sounds like you are his mother not his wife. It also kind of sounds like an abusive relationship (doesn’t have to be physical to be considered abuse). He’s not even caring about the health and safety of your children when he’s dropping things on the floor. Unless things change, I don’t think it’s healthy or safe for you to stay there. You could try talking to him about your concerns (not right after he gets home from work or when he’s irritated so he won’t think you’re “bitching”) and see how he responds. If things don’t improve, I would take the kids and stay at your parents (aunts, friends etc) and maybe he will realize everything you do for him and he can start to appreciate you. You’re too young to be burdened with an empty marriage. It’s important for kids to have a stable life but getting out of a bad situation might be better than the alternative. I hope everything works out.
From someone who recently divorced after 36yrs:
GET OUT NOW! He doesn’t have one iota of respect for you, and never will. It’s all about him! I believe that’s what is called a narcissist. If there’s no respect, there’s no love. Stop wasting your time on someone who only cares about himself, and something that’s empty & dead. It will never work if only one person is investing in the relationship. Eventually, you’ll find yourself on empty. You’re emotionally stranded & alone now. Yes, it’ll be hard, especially with two kids, but many have done it before you, and you’ll dig deep, and find strength you didn’t know was there. You can do it. You ARE doing it! Face your fears head on. It may be rough for a while, but you’ll be glad you did.
This sounds awful. I hope you can find couple’s counselling, or if he won’t go, find a counsellor yourself to help you decide what to do.
Leave while you are young! He will not change. Unless there are some other great qualities he has which you didn’t mentioned.
The question is…how did you not notice these things before you got married and had kids?
Emma, you should leave him. He has no appreciation for you and is not a male role model for his children. You are a selfless persin and deserve to be happy too.
All the best in life.
Sorry about that I understand you 100% Do u believe in God? And pray? I will sure pray for you and Ur family. I’m going to similar situation and it is very difficult because we are young and want to feel loved.
He’s resentful that you have your shit together and can handle so much. He’s an immature, insecure little man and it won’t change. Instead of being happy he has a wonderful prize for a wife, he will tear you down and belittle you. Start making a plan to leave, you deserve someone who is worthy of you. Hugs.
Get out!!! Things will only get worse, not better, with this sort of entitled idiot. I left a man with a similar attitude (thankfully we didn’t have kids) 20 years ago and have never regretted it. And the worst was that Mr. Idiot went about whining “I never thought that you would leave me” despite my telling him many times (prior to my leaving) that I was not willing to stay with someone who was so disrespectful to me. 🙁
Get out of this marriage sooner rather than later! There is no amount of intervention that will shape your boy into a man. There is still plenty of time for you to become a happy, successful woman again… And if you so choose, to find a loving responsible man to come home to. I wish you all the best, girl.
I was so sad to read your comment. I have to say, it’s not that your husband doesn’t respect you. He is actively, intentionally DISrespecting you. There’s something deeper going on with him that he feels the need to constantly walk all over you and the kids. I suspect he’s overwhelmed with insecurity and anger. I can’t tell you what to do, but if I were you, I’d get out. If anything, it will keep the kids safe and force a different kind of conversation. Where that leads, anybody knows. If you do end up divorced, it will be hard as he’ll be angry. But you need to make sure your kids don’t grow up just like him or marry someone just like him, and you deserve much better.
Thank you for posting your story. I am so sorry for everything you are going through. I hope and pray that you have a second chance at a real love. On the flip side, I left my ex-husband for this sort of behavior and I often second guess myself. People still judge, even in 2016. Best of luck to us both.
You are a saint. God has a special place for you. True, if you had divorced you became a “marked” woman.
Exactly. Every time. All the time. I spend so much time thinking “about the glass” and why it makes me mad. “Why do we keep having this conversation?” he says. Because I ask, I plead, I use sarcasm, I use please and thank you and still nothing. Tonight the argument was over sweeping. “I swept.” Clearly there was stuff on the floor. “I just don’t sweep like you do.” I am frustrated all the time. There is never time to help me. But I manage it all, all the time, everyday. Thank you for understanding.
This made me cry…because you are right.
Here’s how I would interpret the situation you describe: Since you couldn’t be bothered to put the glass away, when the dishwasher was only about a foot away from where you were standing, then you were saying that this was a menial task that was beneath your dignity to do, but NOT beneath your wife’s dignity. Ditto for leaving clothes on the floor. You say that such things didn’t matter to you, but I’ll bet that if your wife simply had let your pile of dirty clothes build up on the floor for weeks and weeks, and if she had let the dishes pile up on the counter, you would have begun to realize why these “petty” things mattered. Hers was not an emotional position. It was completely logical. Actions, or in your case, non-actions, spoke louder than words. You were saying that your time was more valuable than hers. This was an insult. She wanted to be valued as your wife, not your maid. This has nothing to do with men thinking differently from women, nor does it have anything to do with women being “mysterious” or “emotional” creatures. Some men are perfectly capable of seeing what’s obvious. Luckily, I’m married to one of them. If a dish is dirty, he puts it into the sink. (We don’t have a dishwasher). If his pants are dirty, he puts them into the hamper. I don’t have to tell him and he doesn’t have to read my mind, because the whole thing is so obvious.
You assume he dosn’t do the dishes later in the day or at night and he is expecting his wife to do the chore. What if he is the one who normally does the dishes? What is “obvious” to you may not be obvious to others, maybe he was told to leave glasses out as a child so they didn’t waste electricity and water and it’s obviously a waste to him to get a new glass every time he wants to get a drink of water. There are two sides to every situation and arguments happen when one or both parties are to stubborn to lay down their pride and look at it from another persons point of view.
Assumptions indeed run rampant on this thead, and no one seems to want to broach the real issue: true actual forgiveness.
When Christ told Peter to forgive 70 x 7 times, he wasn’t saying that he ought to keep track and keep forgiving until the 490th time, and then….WHAM!
What he was saying is that we are to ALWAYS forgive – TRULY forgive one another. Each time a wrong is committed against us, we are to treat it as if it is the first time (even in things that are reoccuring!), as a NEW error, amd then to forgive it and forget it.
This is what is meant in 1Corinthians 13 when it says that love keeps no record of wrongs.
Bu in our conceit, in our arrogance, in our endless narcissim…we spend our lives and lay waste to our marriages in trying to get what we think we deserve from one another, rather than carrying a proper spirit that says love is caring FOR another over yourself in all things in all ways at all times.
Exactly my view on this
Thank you. Yes. I had a friend that argued her roommates were lazy for not refilling the ice tray after every single use. I could not convince her that they may not, in fact, be lazy, but operating under different standards. Like mine. I get pissed if I go to take out an ice cube, and there are some in the tray not frozen and I end up spilling them. Neither of us is “right” – we’re just operating with different standards.
Secondly, this whole article is so sexist. Men invent the cool things and solve the world’s problems and cure cancer, and women just want them to clean up a little, too. Because every woman values a clean house more than anything and every man avoids housework like the plague. Ugh.How about every single relationship is different, and partners need different things from each other? Find out what those things are, and if you value your relationship and want it to continue, do those things. Hey, look – I got across the same sentiment as this article without resorting to antiquated, sexist stereotypes.
total horseshit. completely abject and horrible. I understand your need to make sense of this, to gain perspective, to heal. but you are as wrong as ISIS. so is she. wake up and deal with it.
Wrong as ISIS!
Good grief.
Must we compare mass murder with attempts to help others rethink why their marriages are failing at a 50+% clip?
I’m just going to come out and say it: My explanation, objectively speaking, and echoed by 600+ people, seems slightly more credible than what you just typed.
You’re life will get so much more awesome if you allow yourself to question your own beliefs as easily as you can dismiss others’.
You’ll feel a lot better not trying to carry the burden of being “right” all the time.
It’s okay to not know everything.
I totally agree with you…her throwing the fit over the glass left by the sink when there is no one else there, is NO BIG DEAL….seems to me she just wants to fight and complain about something..that’s crazy…love the guy for who he is just like you loved him for who he is when you first fell in love with him. He is not gonna do everything “right” but then neither are you..count your blessings that he is not out running around with other women.. which would sure give you something to complain about..
ok, yeah. that was a bit much. sorry.
You are obviously inexperienced in these matters. And perhaps lucky too.
This is precisely one of the things Mark Gungor explains in his video series “Laugh your way to a better marriage”.
Check youtube for “A tale of two brains” – look for the long version. It’s all about this.
Right… I’m going back to my nothing box now.
no, this is horseshit. she is pathological for ruining your life over something this petty. if she really felt this way, something along the lines of “put your glass in the dishwasher or I’m divorcing you” would have done nicely. this is completely out of order and you need to wake up to the fact. I know you have a need to heal, learn, put things in perspective, etc. but you have been wronged, and yes, I’m angry. for you, and, yes, at you. ok. I’m done.
Wow. You’re totally going to attract those girls. Have some understanding for people unlike yourself.
I have to agree here. If things like this are what bothered her in life, she had it pretty good. It only takes 1 second to turn off a light when you leave a room. If all men were like this woman, 95% of marriages would fail. She sounds like a miserable person in general, and you should probably be saying good riddance!
You’re so cute when you try to explain yourself, tristan!
It clearly wasn’t just the dishes. I mean really….you can’t actually think it was just the dishes. The dishes are being used as ONE example. But in all honesty, how many times does one have to ask someone to do something and continue to be ignored before they lose their shit? It does show a lack of respect, no matter what you think about it. It’s a simple, mundane, two second task, and if you’re asked nicely, why can’t you just do it? To be clear, I’m in no way pointing my fingers at the author or think he’s a terrible person. But what is the problem with someone looking back at their own personal experience and saying “shit, yeah I messed up.” It’s not about the dish. It’s NEVER about the dish.
Wow… thank you.
At the same time, what would be the response to someone who is told once and does it out of respect and/or love. In my many relationships I’ve always taken note of things my partner did not appreciate and made efforts to change them and usually pretty successful at changing them. However, these did not get appreciated as well which is why it didn’t work. The point I’m trying to make is that there seems to need to be a sense that it is an effort, no effort means no love to some people, however this seems to last longer in my observations of people who are in long lasting relationships yet constantly argue about the same nonsensical things. People like myself who right away try to do what makes our partners happy usually go unnoticed, likely because it does not seem like much work was put into it and maybe we are not much of a fighter. Women don’t want a whipping boy but they also want someone who will make changes to their behavior, something to keep in mind for those of you like me who just want to do what we think is best for our partners and get the short end because we seem weak. We are not weak, but we need to both show that we can stand our ground and also that we can change. How do you do that? Don’t put the glass in the wash if you don’t feel like it, if she brings it up more than once, do it the next time but don’t do it because you have to or because she wants you to, do it because its something that she cares about and you care about her. That is a difficult shift to make, for some of us, but you gotta let he/she know that you don’t care about something before they will appreciate it when you do it for them. Also avoid doing things like that before intimacy has occurred, it will seem like you only cared about one thing if you change that behavior after. You should become closer after intimacy and be more willing to make behavior changes to show your affection.
I can relate to the author very well. Here is the rub though, yes the husband should, out of love and the respect he does have Does have for his wife, put the glass in the dishwasher; however there should also be a look and discussion as to what is the root of the wife’s need to feel respected in something as meaningless as putting a glass in the dishwasher. Because if the root of the insecurities are not dealt with the issue will come up again in another form…. Maybe as to the orientation the silverware should be put in to the dishwasher, or not closing the shower curtain all the way after your done showering or you name it. Otherwise she will be taking her hurt and pain out on her husband who may not have caused the insecurity in the first place. This goes both ways, I’m just continuing simply with the authors specific example.
If the glass thing was literally the only thing he ever did that demonstrated laziness and lack of willingness to make life easier for her then I’d agree but it was probably only one example… the one she got fixated on. For my part one thing that really gets under my skin is my husband leaving his shoes and jeans in the middle of the floor. He just drops his pants, slips off his shoes wherever he is and walks off (usually onto the couch to watch TV for the next six hours). Now if that was just the one and only inconsiderate thing he ever did then whatever it wouldn’t really matter but to me it’s like a microcosm of his whole attitude to me and our home. He doesn’t help me with anything ever, he just adds things to my to do list. He knows it drives me crazy when I’m struggling to keep the house tidy as it is with our three kids and two dogs, and he just goes and makes our home look even more chaotic and makes more work for me. Pants and shoes belong upstairs in the closet/shoerack but he has never (not once!) put them there himself, I always have to pick them up off the floor in the family room or kitchen and put them in the closet for him. He doesn’t ever put anything where it should go, he just expects me to do it and yes “in the grand scheme of things” as people say it’s not that important but when you’re already struggling to keep order and your spouse, the one person you should be able to count on to have your back, is adding more and more to the disorder and just generally doesn’t give a crap it can really get you down and make you lose a little perspective. It’s ridiculous that today I picked up his shoes from by the sofa and transported them ten feet away to the shoe rack for the thousandth time, he is an adult and is capable of doing it himself but chooses not to because he doesn’t care about me. That simple act of putting his own shoes and pants away is too much trouble. That’s the message I get. It feels like a big FU, tbh.
Stop doing it for him! He’ll NEVER change, or even care, until it becomes his problem. When he doesn’t have clean clothes, It will be HIS problem. When he trips over his shoes, it will be HIS problem. Right now it’s YOUR problem.
I’m not instigating a fight. I feel for you in your annoyance at your husband, but what you have left out of this message is, have you ever told your husband how annoying these things are to you? Or do you just simply do the things (like moving the shoes, the pants etc.) and remain angry about doing so. I am certainly not giving any credit to your husband, but there are humans who unconsciously do things without thinking about the bigger picture. Sure, your husband SHOULD know that leaving his pants in the middle of the floor is annoying, but maybe he just doesn’t realize. I find myself often leaving things places, not consiously thinking to myself ” hey this is REALLY going to annoy the person who has to pick it up”– Its just a behavior that I have done without regard. We can all fixate on the little things in life that people do that annoy the shit out of us, or we can just pick up the pants and the glass and move on.
I am not married but I do have a twin sister. Every time I leave a dish in the sink or something she makes sure to IMMEDIATELY let me know how I have offended her and how annoying it is to clean up after me. But do you know what? When I find her dishes in the sink, my decision to simply put the dish in the dishwasher and not say a word is my coping mechanism. We all have different reactions to things. It takes a lot of patience to just take a breath and let.it.go.
We are all so mean to each other.
Thank you for an authentic and thoughtful post. I imagine this was a difficult realization and hard to share. I suggest reading posts by researcher/author Shaunti Feldhahn. With research to prove it, she discusses (in lay man’s terms) how the majority of women feel as your wife felt and the majority of men think as you thought. Of course there are exceptions on both sides of the gender fence, but generally speaking, we all want to be shown we’re valued in ways we value. As you said, understanding isn’t always necessary, but I think serving in love is always necessary in marriage.
the point you make about wanting a partner, not a child, is essential. this is why gendered expectations in hetero marriages are such a problem, and it cuts both ways. many women assume, despite themselves sometimes, that being a “good wife” means managing all the messy little details of your husband’s life that he doesn’t feel he should have to manage himself; it’s male entitlement colliding with women’s tendency to assume a “managerial” role in the home, and it’s a recipe for disaster. being a partner means not tacitly agreeing to manage all the mess in another adult’s life, and also not assuming that you have the right (conferred by penis) to such casual, everyday maintenance. putting the glass in the dishwasher without being asked to is an indication that you get this. i’m glad to hear that you did get this eventually– though as you clearly recognize, at quite the price.
My husband and I have been married nearly 30 years. We both do household chores very differently! He was drilled to do things a certain way by a domineering father. I was allowed to adopt my own style of chores by parents of 6 children who understood we weren’t carbon copies. Yes, my husband leaves a glass by the sink,his shoes sitting opposite to the straight arrangement of the others and his towel crooked after every use. And yes,these things bother me but it’s my neurosis that’s affected not his. I either straighten,put away or ignore. He was mentally beat up enough by his parents …I can and do accept these silly traits even though they can bug me. I don’t consider it disrespectful to me. I’m not his mother. I’m his partner for better or worse.
Wow! Thank you for getting it, I feel absolutely validated.
Very self centered woman I am reading about in this article. Did she take the the time or effort to notice all the ways her husband did show love, respect and appreciation? Did she focus on all the small things he did for her? Or did she only see a dirty glass in the sink and take it personally?
People show love and appreciation in many different ways and one of the things that makes relationships work is the ability to see it from the other’s perspective and appreciate their effort, even if they don’t exactly do things how you want them to. It’s also important to not take things personally and realize that many times people’s actions have nothing to do with you at all.
What you wrote perfectly describes how I feel about everyone’s little messes left all over the kitchen and adjacent family room, only it’s not done by my husband but teenage and college age boys. It infuriates me that I have to tell them to clean up their own mess and then they take offense because I said something about it. I’ve always thought to myself that I feel sorry for their future wives. I think I will share this article with them.d
I doubt it will help at all. If you feel this way it’s going to be difficult for you to understand how completely and utterly ridiculous it sounds to equate one object out of place with feeling like you aren’t appreciated, or loved, or can’t trust, or count on, or feel safe with someone. Making something so small and insignificant into such a huge issue by relating it to these powerful feelings sounds 100% batshit insane because the importance of one is not remotely on par with the importance of the other. One of the things about the way guys tend to interact with others is that we are we are taught through our education from the very beginning that if an opinion is factually wrong or makes no logical sense then it doesn’t matter and should be ignored. Most of us equate feelings with opinions as nebulous, mutable things that are in contrast to facts, so if someone says that they feel a certain way, and their feeling that way makes no sense whatsoever, we will assume that it either isn’t as important as it is being made out to be, or it isn’t real at all and the person talking about it is trying to emotionally blackmail us. That’s why some men will get angry when others ‘make mountains out of molehills’. They believe the other person is wrong to feel the way that they say they do, and therefore they are only saying it to hurt them or make them do what they want. This is also why you get arguments from some men telling you how you should feel, by the way. They are in most cases trying to show you that how you feel isn’t (in their eyes) appropriate to the issue in the hopes that you will realize that and so it will no longer bother you. In most cases it’s not necessarily to do with being inconsiderate or trying to get you off their back so much as it is a well intentioned, if misguided attempt to help you live a happier and more emotionally balanced life. That’s going to sound incredibly condescending, I do realize that, but it is how a lot of men, particularly those who have been raised to be ‘problem solvers’, ‘providers’ or ‘knights in shining armor’ think because the patriarchy tells us we are supposed to be the logical ones who take care of the women in our lives and that if they are in any kind of distress, it’s our duty to fix it.
TL:DR Your family doesn’t care about the little messes, so they can’t understand why you care about it. You care about it because you equate it to their love and respect, but even if you tell them that’s why you care about it, they’ll still not be able to make themselves care enough to change their behavior not because they don’t care about you, but because they’ll either think that you are wrong to feel that way and therefore you should be the one to change, or they just won’t believe you.
@Lancer: Then aren’t they the problem? Everybody’s feelings matter (nebulous as they may seem to you). No one has the right to marginalize them just because they don’t agree. I’d bet a million dollars you don’t feel that way about YOUR feelings. No, why would you? You only care about things that actually matter, right? Yeah. To you. This whole “Oh well then, little lady, y’all are just gonna hafta let ‘er go now, cuz us mens don’t cotton to that-air emotionalizin’ and what-not” bullshit is just that: bullshit. Certainly, men and women think differently. Certainly, men and women process things differently. But we can also learn and change and grow. Your basic premise here is, “Men will not listen to you because we are logical and have been trained to ignore hysterical females going on and on about their feelings.” You’re kidding, right? There are guys all over the world who prove this isn’t true every day.
People with exactly your mindset (which is ridiculously narcissistic, by the way) are largely responsible for the problem the author is talking about. Aren’t you reading the hundreds of other comments here? This is a problem, and it isn’t about petty, snarky, high-maintenance and over-emotional women. It’s about people – mostly women but not all – who just want a little human consideration. They just want to feel heard and respected by the families they love and care for in their own homes. Why does it have to be some big argument? You say it isn’t about being inconsiderate, but it is. If it wasn’t, let Wifey or Mr. Mom go without doing those things for a while and see how fast people complain: “Where’s dinner? I have no clean clothes. I can’t find my shoes. This house is a mess.”
I don’t get it. Is it really SO HARD to just to show a little respect and consideration for someone you say you love? Is it really SO beneath this many people to just do that? What is wrong with anybody anymore? I hate to tell everybody this, but you don’t get to dictate how other people receive or feel love. It’s up to you to show it the way they can see it if you love them, or to at least try. The fact that people are just not even willing to try says so much about the state people are in these days.
My marriage is over just because of this. Literally everything that you said in this is what actually happened to me. I cried so much reading this.
Very well-said, and right on the mark!
I also think that the glass thing is petty, but it’s not really about the glass.
I agree with everything.
So Matt. When you are finished beating yourself up, you might want to consider that marriage is a partnership. Learn from your mistakes, consider hers, then move on. Perhaps you’ll meet someone who is also into leaving glasses on the sink?
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anyone ever think that perhaps *she’s* got a problem is leaving a glass somewhere majorly hurts and wounds her? What if she decides that him eating with his right hand instead of his left hurts and wounds her? I find this whole thing just funny and very demanding on the man, but very patronizing to the woman, since it assumes that she just can’t help but feel hurt. She lost too, in fact, in this society women lose a lot more with divorce as they usually end up in poverty. Let’s stop patronizing women and treating them like little children. Grow up and deal with your inner issues. Nobody *makes* you feel anything, you’ve got to learn how to control yourself and deal with yourself. That’s for both men and woman. Man! this nonsense that the culture throws at your every day just gets to you after awhile.
The women end up in poverty? What a joke. I’m the one paying 3/4 of the bills. I’ve earned the respect.
Bless this post honestly. I just ended a serious relationship with someone I’ve liked for a very, very long time and I didn’t know why. I was scared of facing the truth and used putting my career and college ahead of me first (which is still true) but I also realize now that just plain and simple, I don’t want to be his mom.
Sounds like a win-win situation to me. He will find someone willing to be his mom eventually. It takes all kinds.
So men need to give in and just do what we are told? Just be good little husbands! Where will it end? Keep bending over backwards to her every demand and she will leave you for someone that is more of a man. Start treating your wife the way she treats you and see what happens. Women dont want a two way street they want it their way or the highway. This is what feminism did to our women and to men. Men are now taught to please women and when you do this women will complain that he is too nice. I was once told by an Australian all your women problems are because you married a white women. He married an indonesian. Just dont marry a white American women. American women are privlidged and ungreatful. They are arrogant. The good looking ones think they are special because of their looks.
Or just clean up after yourself and don’t be a dick. A wife is not a slave, she is a an equal partner.
I didn’t read all the comments, though many were thought provoking.
The fact that you recognize how small behaviors represent huge concepts is wonderful and refreshing. My husband and I have been married over 13 years and we have 5 kiddos so far. The first year of marriage, I would nag the everliving crap out of him for leaving his dirty socks wherever he happened to sit down to take them off. I’m certain we argued relentlessly over it.
Somewhere along the line, he stopped leaving his socks in weird places. Let’s be honest, though – I also stopped nagging the crap out of him.
We have been through a LOT together. There have been many difficult times, times where we would look at each other and I would ask, “are we really going to make it through this?” He was always really reassuring.
I guess I’m commenting for two reasons. First, to thank you for your vulnerability. Second, though, to give a little encouragement.
Yes, it’s about the cup and the respect and the communication, but it’s even more. It’s being willing, at the end of the day, for both people to say that the vows are more important than the argument.
Sometimes I walk on him and sometimes he walks on me. Sometimes we walk on each other. But, thank God, we lift each other more than we step on each other.
I admit, sometimes it’s really hard to just not be a jerk. Humans are hard to live with. I’m really glad my husband is willing to look past all that stuff and not give up on me, and I on him.
It’s possible, though. That’s the encouragement I want to give. It really, really is possible to marry another human and stay together. I think your insight into your weaknesses of behavior will help you see it through, should the future lead you that way.
Couldn’t agree more. Its the caring about something bc it matters to her. If everyone did that the world would be a better place and I’m sure there would be less divorces.
This is great. As part of maturing together in a marriage, if a man could understand these things about a woman, and a woman could learn to understand that these type of actions by men aren’t directed towards her.. He really doesn’t care about the glass… then when he does put the glass in the dishwasher she will know he’s not doing it because he cares about it, he’s doing it because he cares about her, all the stars would align.
She was looking for a reason to leave. Its as simple as that. The glass by the sink is a metaphor for just how disposable relationships have become. He was a good guy but because he left a glass by the sink the situation was less than optimal. I’m sure there were things she did that he overlooked (probably none as awful as leaving a glass by the sink) everyday. The idea that his inability to do this thing transfered over to resentment and a feeling of being unloved and disrespected is…ridiculous and a clear sign that she was looking for a reason to leave.
This post bugs me purely on the basis of hypocrisy. Women do things all the time that bother their partners, and then refuse to do things differently, but if they got dumped over that, it’s because the man was an insensitive pig. I don’t like you hanging out with your guy friend that obviously has a crush on you: “That’s unfair and you know it! We’ve been friends for a long time, and I’m not gonna stop being his friend because you’re jealous!”, I don’t wanna watch another girly movie with you right now: “Why can’t you just enjoy watching a movie with me? You should know that I like it, I don’t wanna watch your stupid action movies.”, babe could you stop leaving your makeup all over the bathroom sink, it’s getting cluttered: “Well I use it every day, so why would I put it up when I’m just gonna have to take it back out again tomorrow?” Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? Do you see how easy that could be turned around? Yet if a man complained about this stuff to the point of divorce, he would be ridiculed and slandered. The real solution isn’t to be your wife’s whipping boy because it makes her feel special. The solution is for your relationship to be equal parts give and pull for both parties. It irritates me seeing men AND women feeling entitled to unconditional devotion and subordination from their, apparently insignificant, other. If you have a problem, and that problem is minuscule at the very most, DEAL WITH IT! Your partner isn’t your slave or servant, no relationship is perfect, nobody has psychic abilities, and if you expect him to work on him, or her to work on her, than you better be ready to work on yourself too. If you want him to put up a glass, and he doesn’t think it’s fair, ask him why. When he tells you that he lets something that bothers him about you slide all the time, offer to work on it, if he’ll work on putting his damn glass up, it’s that simple people! Respect. equal, understanding, rational respect for EACH OTHER.
I think you just put into words why so many relationships fail. I never realized that this was the reason for my past failed relationships until I met my husband. He is so completely different than anyone I had ever been with, he seems to innately get ‘it’. Posts like these are a great wake up call to those of us who tend to be a little more self-centered in our relationships. Thank you.
Bravo!!!
The glass is a metaphor for what exactly? The albatros around your neck? I can only go by what you wrote, but both feelings are equally valid, so why does hers take precendent?
The real problem is society has been slowly brainwashing the sexes to be enemies of each other. Men and women are different, and no modern social experiment is going to change that. You shouldn’t have to read “men have a penis and women have a vagina” to figure this out. Both sexes have scumballs in their ranks, but you’d never guess that from the blanket statements made here.
This society will collapse soon (without a strong culture and without strong families) and nature will put it right again. When this happens men will be busy protecting their families (the few who still have them) and property from those who wish to take it. We’ll start over, but that won’t be fun at all. Picking up a dish or hanging up a coat will be the least of women’s worries then.
Ah, First World problems.
This article (while is a deep introspective rooted in the current unhappy circumstance) does ring true…it is the reason I buy my girl a $800 Louis Vuitton wallet even though I think it is total crap….it was important to her so I did it. It is why I wash the dishes by hand, instead of using the perfectly functioning dishwasher. It’s why I take my shoes off outside the door….none of those things mean a hill of beans to me except it matters to HER. And in my 20’s I probably wouldn’t have made the connection.
So basically a man doesn’t love or care about his wife unless he does everything she wants him to do, and he has to figure out that everything on his own. And if he doesn’t then it’s reasonable that a woman would divorce her husband over this? And its men who are the big children??
If he always did it and expected her to clean that’s one thing but if he does it from habit or has a good reason then I don’t see a big issue other then her getting mad everytime. If he knows it really bothers her he should try and make a difference but if he doesn’t do it 100% of the time she shouldn’t get ready for a divorce. I do things my wife doesn’t like and have learned what those things are and try my best not to do them but some things are ate hard habit to break from doing it all the time growing up. On the other hand she does thing that make no sense to me and i try to explain to her why I do it differently but if she still thinks her way is better and doesn’t get mad I’m different then that’s fine with me. In the end you can’t let the little things bother you and communication and understanding makes all the difference.
I’m currently contemplating a divorce from my husband for the same reasons. I’ve tried multiple times to explain to him exactly what this article says… But he doesn’t care. The straw that broke the camels back was when he left for Tennessee without me, after I’ve begged for months to go on a trip. I cried and cried the entire time he was gone. It makes me so angry… My husband feels as though he is entitled to a better life than me. I work 2 jobs, go to school and do the housework so he can have the best life possible, because I love him and his happiness is my happiness. All I ask is the smallest bit of appreciation and understanding that I want him to do things for me… Because he loves me… And my happiness is his happiness, but instead he just takes and takes and is never happy with what he’s given until I can’t give anymore, and then he still takes more. I sent him this article and told him this is how I feel. I doubt he will read it but I appreciate you writing it nonetheless.
I love this article. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had a fight with a male partner and I’ve had to say “don’t you get that this isn’t about this one specific inconsequential thing? It’s about you not caring enough about me to even care where I’m coming from.” Brava!
I liked this article. But to be honest I was a little surprised by the negativity in the comments. I’m sure “the glass” is something that could be interpreted in many different ways. Let’s be honest, we all have those pet peeves, some of us it drives more crazy than others, hair left on the soap/razor in the shower? A glass left next to the sink? A pile of clothes left NEXT to the laundry basket instead of in it? It’s all annoying. Maybe not divorce worthy in my opinion, but annoying. For example, my husband whom I love very much does all of these things, but worst of all he has a bad habit of getting a new glass every time he gets a different drink. So throughout the day, there are dozens of glasses all around the house that I’m usually the one left to pick up. Yes, it drives me crazy, and I have told him countless times to just use one glass, rinse it out, and get another drink in the same glass. But, no such luck, for eight years I have picked up his glasses, washed them and put them away. Want to know why? Because I leave my makeup/hair products on the bathroom sink in the morning after I get ready, they have a place in the basket under the sink, but I get in a hurry and I forget. Want to know what else? I start a load of laundry in the washing machine, and forget about it. Sometimes it can sit there all day, and then they have to be rewashed because I’ve forgotten. I also hate folding laundry and will live out of a basket of clean wrinkled clothes because I can’t be bothered to take 10 minutes to fold them. Yes, my husband has asked me dozens of times to stop these things, but you know what? I can’t. I don’t know why, but nearly every day all these things still happen. Yet were still together because we accept each others faults. I wash his glasses, and put his laundry in the dirty clothes basket, and he puts my makeup/hair stuff away for me, and switches the laundry to the dryer when I forget. Marriage is a partnership, its a team. So I won’t say that my husband “disrespects me” because he won’t use one glass, because I’m not perfect either, we each do things that drive each other crazy but we know they’re not things to harbor resentment towards each other about. They’re small things that we do for one another because we love each other, and yes, we remind our partner to “never do that again” because in the moment, yes, its annoying as hell and I want nothing more than to glue that glass to his hand so he had to use just one, and I’m sure every time he sees the laundry still in the washing machine he mutters under his breath for the millionth time how annoying that is. Yet, we make it work, we help each other, we love each other, and strangely enough, sometimes love is cleaning up each others messes.
You my spineless friend are way off base. Here are a few points to consider;
1. If she feels the need to say something about the glass everytime it happens maybe she should remember all the times she corrected him for not putting it at the exact spot in the dw that she would have.
2. It takes far less energy for her to just put it in the dw where she wants it vs calling him out on it everytime he let’s it sit.
3. She could care less how many times he may have did the dishes by hand only to have it pointed out to him that in a sarcastic way, “you missed a spot or the silverware has spots on them.
4. She for gets how many times he asked her if he could help with something only to get the reply that it’s quicker for her to do it herself then to have to redo it.
5. And another example is when he starts her car on a cold morning to warm it for her and the only thing she sees is that the heat controls were moved from where she had them set.
My spineless wonder of a man. The point I am attempting to make is no matter what he does for her it will not be good enough because she is OCD…
LIVED WITH ONE FOR THIRTY PLUS YEARS AND IT’S BEEN A CHALLENGE EVERY DAY. I have a friend that is 89 and his wife is 95. She is OCD to the max. He said it got worse as she got older. I asked him how did he ever put up wit it this long. He laughed and said “I just keep my mouth shut when shrubs says something cause if I say something it only makes it worse!!!
END OF STORY… END OF LIFE…lol
This is true too!
I do understand what you are saying and how your small failure hurt in a big way. You are recognizing your part and taking responsibility for your actions. I’d also like to point out that love means keeping no record of wrongs. There is another choice. You choose to overlook the flaws of a person because your relationship means more than winning a dish battle. Sooner or later, you decide that for the sake of the marriage, you are going to let the glass go. It doesnt mean denying your self respect, but it does require selflessness. There is a lifetime of joy to be had together and dishes will always be there. There is room for imperfection because as I choose to overlook my husband’s flaws, he is overlooking mine. My sink and counter are covered in dishes right now, but we both decided to spend his only day off enjoying each other. Love is a choice, sometimes you have to love someone even when they leave their dishes out. Again, had you been fully invested into your marriage, maybe you would have been more diligent, but had she been fully invested, maybe she would have switched to Dixie cups? I don’t know, I’m glad you are gaining perspective and learning , that is huge. I’ve been married awhile now, and I remember those angry, tear-filled arguments about silly things that meant much deeper things at the time. Communication is hard. And marriage is the hardest, but so worth the work to make it a good one!
Why can’t she see it as an opportunity to prove to her husband that she appreciates his efforts and sacrifices by just shutting the F**K up and putting the glass away!?
Not lmpressed! If the dish or glass wasn’t cleaned and put beside the dishwasher in the sink, it would have created more work for the wife because it’s sitting dirty and somewhere in the house. As a husband, I pick up anyones dish in the house and put them in the sink. That includes my glass, her glass, or anyone of our three kids. Not to mention, opening the dishwasher may wake up one of the kids, so putting it in the sink saved time for her and doesn’t wake up anyone. Boom!!
Tavin
I loooooove what you had to say!!!! It was wonderful to hear how hurtful such a small act can be… and when my husband can’t put a glass away for me, it doesn’t make me feel safe that he will take care of the other responsibilities that he needs to for our family.
Because he can’t put the glass away means he can’t take care of the other responsibilities. How do u make that leap? That like saying because a kid doesn’t like green beans he’s going to die if a heart attack cause he won’t be able to eat healthy. What situations have you faced in your life that leads you to believe such a lie?
This reminds me of my parents who are still married, but my mother is not happy with my father. When my mom was offered an amazing job in India, my dad insisted that she couldn’t leave him behind. He said let’s get married. He promised he’ll take good care of her. Just don’t go.
My mom finally agreed and married him in the States and got a cheap job. But some time after this event, my dad said that he accepted a job offer in Japan and he will be gone for a long time.. several years. Naturally my mom was not happy, explaining that she sacrificed her job to be with him, but now he’s leaving her? He explained that he was doing this FOR HER; he was going to an unfamiliar place on his own to make money for them, why was she complaining?
My mom said that she didn’t want to be married with him anymore if he was just going to leave her behind like that, which convinced my dad to stay. But even to this day my dad doesn’t understand why my mom is angry at him about that. And his attitude continues to anger her.
Ultimately a marriage breaks down for many reasons, it takes two to make or break one. When trust and respect are gone and you find your husband has fallen in love with someone else, male or female makes no matter. When your first fight after 2 years of marriage makes him go out and get drunk and come back with an empty condom box in his pocket. When confronted says it is for your protection, this is when you know there is a problem in the marriage and after 7 more years of his lack of support lack of empathy for your feelings. It made me realize that I was slowly dying inside. I just want you too know it does not matter if the glass was in the sink or not. It matters if you love your partner and have open communication before you marry about what your requirements of each are. Unspoken expectations will kill a relationship slowly strangling the feelings and love out of it.
You completely missed the point of this post.
This might have saved my last relationship if I’d seen it a year ago.
It explains our problem to an exact point.
Matt,
When you are leaving the cup by the sink are you expecting her to put it in the dishwasher or are you planning to take care of it later? What leaving the cup there means to her is that you expect her to take care it. That is why she feels disrespected and like she is your mother and not your partner. If there was a kitchen at your office and you had a cup of coffee would you just leave it by the sink for one of your coworkers to take care of, or would you take care of it yourself? I think you are pretty spot on in your article about the issue, but what is also frustrating as a woman is the fact that some men can’t understand how leaving your clothes on the floor, cup by the sink, etc. makes a woman feel unappreciated and like she is expected to clean up after you. It is a respect issue.
This isn’t a man/woman issue. In my home, the roles are reversed. I think this is where selfishness is rearing it’s head and not by the man in the article. In my home, I’m the person that wants the house clean and dishes put away. Most of the time, I’m the one that has to do it, on my days off. This includes when she was a stay at home mom, home with the kids. It frustrates me, sure, but I know that she doesn’t do it to frustrate me. She’s always been this way. Her car is a mess and it doesn’t bother her, while I’d have a nervous breakdown. Clothes on the floor or a cluttered room doesn’t bother her. She doesn’t get bothered by a couple days of dishes in the sink, not just a single glass. I know, I’ve tried to see how long it would take before one of us would break down and take care of it. I am always first. But again, this isn’t new behavior. She’s always been this way. If I were to start thinking, she doesn’t love me, because she won’t do this for me, I’m making it far too much about me, when it’s not about me. She shows me in different ways. Keeping a scorecard of who does what is a sure way to ruin a relationship and creates resentment. The irony is, where he paints himself as the one that is being selfish and not putting her first, I see her being selfish and only putting herself first. Taking everything he does as a slight against her. Of course, there is likely more to this story not told. Keep in mind, I say this as the person opposite him in the relationship.
Brian
That is me almost to a “T”.
Thank you for your honest and gripping post. This applies to all relationships where two people with different paradigms closely interact. It is about making the effort to find a way for empathic resonance and reciprocal appreciation. Thank you again!
Thank you for this post. I have been turning myself inside out for three years trying many different ways to explain this concept to my husband. He read this post & I believe that after all this time, he finally gets it. It was never about a “glass by the sink” for us, my husband is actually pretty neat & usually willing to help out, if asked. Now he FINALLY understands that I don’t WANT to have to ask him to do things, I want him to take the lead once in a while. Your comment about women wanting a full partner & not another dependent to care for was spot-on for me as I’m sure it is with many women. My husband & I both understood the message in this post to be to strive to find the right path to express love & respect to our partners in a way THAT PERSON can relate to. This is important, because everyone is different, & feels safe, secure, loved, respected, validated, etc. in different ways. The final answer for every marriage is that communication is key…but the hard part is finding the specific way to communicate that your partner can hear. So thank you! You helped me to communicate my needs to my husband in a way that he could hear, understand, & relate to.
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Wow, men are such assholes
Wow!! Is just how I feel as a wife. My husband plays video games all day long and I hv ask nicely and also upset to stop ! He won’t do it, won’t help with our kids everything has to b done for him . I stay home mom and I really feel lonely
You married a child.
Says the individual with the pseudonym of a 12 year old.
I’m so sorry you’re feeling lonely. You shouldn’t have to ask your husband to do what he should be doing anyway.
I want to thank you for this. I have been trying to find a way to make sense of a very similar situation in our home for my husband but could not find the right words or the right way to say it. I’ve sent this blog to him so maybe it will help him understand. He’s a good man. He’s a great father and a loving husband. He does so much. But you’re absolutely right; when he can’t take the 4 seconds to put the glass in the dishwasher I feel disrespected and unappreciated. I feel like a servant, not a partner. And I have actually told him I don’t want to be his mother. Thank you for taking something that was surely heartbreaking and emotionally devastating and turning it into a teaching opportunity for others.
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If two people can’t get together and have an honest conversation, and work out steps toward a solution… TOGETHER, then both partners are wrong.
If one wants to have the conversation and the other does it, then it weighs heavily in favor of the person willing to start discussion.
Communication is the key.
If a woman feels like she shouldn’t have to communicate, this is the same entitlement that the man expresses by not picking up the glass.
It’s the same thing, just two different points of view.
And I’m tired of one gender acting superior to the other in resolving issues of relationships. Both genders THINK DIFFERENTLY, and therefore the willingness to communicate is REQUIRED. This goes for both genders.
Men acting superior because women are emotional.
Women acting superior because they believe their methods are common sense.
It has to stop. It just has to stop.
If you find yourself a women in this situation, and you feel insulted at the suggestion to to attempt to understand your husband’s needs, just stop.
If you find yourself a man in this situation, and you feel insulted at the suggestion to attempt to understand your wife’s needs, just stop.
If you aren’t willing to help your spouse help yourself, then you are part of the problem. Goes both ways.
And I’m not budging on this. No matter how much of a fit either gender gives me, I’m not budging. We as a society desperately need to learn to communicate and need to drop the sanctimonious baloney of sense of entitlement to not needing to communicate.
Reblogged this on justaboringhousewife and commented:
I really rather enjoyed this article. It showed a great view on how communication in a relationship can either make or break it. Not enough communication can lead to a horrific downfall that can be started with something as small as “A Glass”.
But is it just about the glass? We all have our little pet peeves, annoyances that if not dealt with can drive us completely bat sh*t crazy. Let me dig a little deeper by getting all personal with you:
My new husband and I have been in a relationship for eight years, so I suppose you could say we don’t have many surprises when it comes to each others “bad habits” The example that the blogger uses is a glass that his wife had asked him to put in the damn dishwasher, annoying? Yes. Divorce worthy? I don’t think so.
Husband does have a few bad habits, leaving dirty clothes RIGHT NEXT to the dirty clothes basket, leaving his shoes in the middle of the floor when he comes home from work, and..worst of all…he has the obsessive need to use a new glass EVERY TIME he gets something to drink out of the kitchen. I don’t know why, but he does. When asked why, he simply responds with the non-committal “Oh, I don’t know” and shrugs as though that’s the answer that solves my problem. So if I’ve asked him once, I’ve asked him a billion times, to just use one glass, and if he wants something to drink, rinse it out, and use it again. Easy, right? But, no such luck. Time and time again I find myself washing a dozen or so glasses that hes used once and put in the sink. It. Drives. Me. Nuts. But, I don’t make an argument about it, in fact, the only time I take time out of my day to remind him about it, is when I’m angry about something else (usually unrelated to the incident). Want to know why?
I leave my make-up/hair products on the bathroom sink ALL. THE.TIME. I don’t do it intentionally, but in the rush to get ready in the morning, I finish putting on my face, and leave it there. Want to know what else? I forget about clothes in the washing machine, sometimes twice a week. They’ll sit in the washing machine all day, and they’ll have to be rewashed if no one moves them. Also, I can live out of a basket of clean, wrinkled clothes because I can’t take 10 minutes out of my day to fold them. That’s right people. I’m not perfect.
So every time I think about starting a fight about something as trivial as his odd glass using habit, I realize: My make-up isn’t on the sink anymore, someone has switched the laundry to the dryer for me. He doesn’t fold the laundry, but who can blame him? It sucks.
Point being, all this stuff got done, and did he start a fight over it? No. Because I put his glasses away, put away his shoes, and pick his clothes up off the floor. Why do we do this for each other even though we mumble under our breath about how annoying it is to have to do it the billionth time? Because we love each other.
It takes me back to that old saying “Choose your battles”. I’m not going to start a war over some glasses, or some clothes on the floor, because I know that I do these things for him, just like he does things for me.
So, as I finish this ridiculously long rant I leave you with this: Love will never be perfect, its a constant give and take that both sides have to put full effort into. That’s what causes a relationship to fail, when you stop the give and take and focus more on giving. So for the sake of your relationships, if your not going to put the glass in the sink, at least take out the f*cking trash, or put away her damn make-up.
Women like you are part of the problem. You married a child and expect a man. Its you that is compromised.
Wait… what? He’s a “child” because he uses a cup too many? Please help me understand. So what does that make her for leaving her makeup out, or clothes in the washer?
My thoughts exactly! Yes, the man should always honestly try to understand what he needs to do to make his wife feel appreciated, but the wife also has a responsibility to clearly let him know how she feels about those little gestures and why it’s so important to her. It does go both ways. I know – second marriage. If, having done that, the problems persist, find someone else who actually makes you happy. Life is too short.
Friendly suggestion: Wisely define and communicate your boundaries (and learn hers, and whether you’re willing to honor them) LONG before you actually get married.
Apparently you missed the point of the comment.
THAT is what you got out of her post? Really? She isn’t expecting ANYTHING out of him. She’s saying to choose your battles. Yes he does things that drive her nuts (not “child” things but typical messy human things) but she also does things like that. And so she’s not going to fight with him over a few minor things.
My husband is the “leave the glass by the sink” person. We have a dishwasher and all he has to do is put it there. But he doesn’t. Does it drive me nuts? Yes. Is it important shows he disrespects me? No. I tend to not do little things like that sometimes too. And so we both have our foibles. It’s not disrespect. It’s just being human. Frankly, I find the wife in this story to be a little ridiculous.
So here’s the deal. You drink something; that glass is now old and used. You drink milk, even a rinse will not get all of the taste/smell out of that glass. And think about the rim of the glass – lips have been on it. And saliva. And that means germs are breeding on the rim of the cup if it’s left for a second use. And what if your hands are germy or dirty from prior cup usage? That is spreading breeding germs and old dirt everywhere!
From my response you can surmise that; 1) My cup is never half full. It is always empty because I do not plan to ever return to it. Ever. There are clean cups to found in my cupboard and I will use them. 2) Your husband and I would be great pals. He could have all the cups he ever wants and I would not just not mind – I would encourage it. 3) When I meet people like you, I secretly suspect that your mother destroyed your soul the first time she put that second drink in the same cup and made you drink it. In fact, I flinch when someone is in my home and tries to reuse a cup – I literally get them another cup and encourage its use because it brings me such great discomfort. 4) Despite your glowing imperfections, you seem to be a lovely person. 5) Despite his glowing imperfections, I am sure your husband is lovely, too. 6) If you are a multi-use cup person and your husband is a one-use man and the two of you have figured out how to make a marriage work, then you have mad relationship skills that will bring you happiness for your lifetime.
This is why my parents are divorced. My father’s total lack of empathy and slob tendencies. I believe having kids has helped me to become a better husband. Why should my wife have to pick up after everyone? Why is it ok for me to add to the chaos? She shouldn’t, and it is not. I am not a child. My children need 2 positive role models, they need to see a man doing household chores. Just picking up after yourself and taking 20 minutes to do some chores can go a long way. I need to go put my laundry away. Thanks for the article.
What a fag. Let her go, then she becomes the next guys problem.
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My gf has conveyed to me this exact senerio. I really did understand the true meaning behind it, that it was not the glass or dish. I reacted just like the man and didnt feel it was important in the grand scheme of life. However when I would go to her house, there sometimes would be a while sink full of water and dirty dishes, that’s been there for days. I felt she was be hypocritical about the situation which supported my decision/argument of not being concern for a couple dishes in the counter. Was I wrong or where did I go wrong?
You went wrong when you believed that by following a females ultimatum would provide peace. Now you know better.
Actually, this is the scenario at my house. I love my husband. Really do. He is an excellent provider, wonderful father and good person. But he drives me crazy about stuff around the house. The sink issue particularly. He leaves stuff in the sink, right next to the dishwasher all the time. When I say something about it he’ll say I am going to do it later. Well, what’s wrong with right now when you are doing nothing? Or right when you were done with the dish? Now, if I leave dishes in the sink, even for days, it doesn’t bother me because I know I will clean them up myself. He’s not going to do it. It’s the expectation that I will eventually do it that bugs me. That it’s not enough to clean up after our child, but I must clean up after him as well. I am a stay at home wife and mother, and I homeschool, too. I. Do. Everything. At our house. Everything. He will do stuff if I ask, but I don’t want to ask or tell, I am not his mom. He can look and see what needs being done and do it. I long ago quit caring about him doing things my way ( the “right way”) as long as he will do them. Incidentally, even when I worked full time, I did everything, even the yard work. We have been married twenty years now, and I will keep him, but the struggle is real.
Basically I agree with almost everything you wrote.
I also agree with Joe who here: ‘Let her go, then she becomes the next guys problem. (sic)’!
You see, we people are rationalizers, not rational. Maybe sometimes reasonable but definitely not rational.
What you described is a relationship that was ‘on the brink’ for quite a while. She was not yet sure about what she really wanted and was gathering ammunition for the coming battle (reasons to leave you) while you were so snug that you didn’t see it coming.
Afterwards each of you have rationalized the situation, according to your then dominant state of mind.
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Dumbest article ever. Dump her ass and enjoy the peace and quiet.
Second dumbest ever, AT WORST. C’mon, now.
THE DUMBEST EVER. Its a dirty glass. She married a child and he thought he married his mother.
I totally didn’t think I was marrying my mom. That’s just bad guessing on your part.
But a child? Hell yeah, dude.
I often act juvenile. On purpose. Not unlike that one time when you went on the internet and left comments using the alias “BusterHymen.”
If you try really, really, really hard, I think you’ll be able to draw the same conclusion as all trillion of these wives and husbands who know what I’m talking about.
Stop focusing on dishes. And start focusing on the greater-than-50%-failure-rate of an institution legal adults VOLUNTARILY enter.
More specifically, Buster, I used to think a little bit like you. And now I know I better.
When stuff doesn’t work, we try new methods.
Chauvinism and name-calling, for example, are ALREADY on the Things That Cause Divorce list.
So, be better, please.
You do that for me, and I’ll try hard not to write the worst content ever distributed on the internet for you.
This post could really save a lot of marriages. Good work.
I run a blog of my own and hopefully will start writing articles like this that can truly help people, very soon. Check it out at some point, would love some pointers https://theindianmansden.wordpress.com/
“But I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time.” <—- that is the problem with the entire article. She shouldn't be telling you what to do to begin with. If you made that comment about a woman then you would be "trying to control her." The patriarchy is holding her down. This entire article is about doing what your wife tells you to do. Sorry, that isn't how life works.
You’re wrong on so many levels that no one could even help you begin to understand.
You’re right. It does sound unreasonable…because it is. Is being a lazy slob grounds for an argument or a discussion? Yes. Grounds for divorce? No.
It’s a metaphor, Clint. For serious, man.
I don’t think anyone has figured this out, friend. I don’t think anyone understands that she didn’t actually divorce you over the dishes.
Clever headlines, be damned. 🙂
Hahahahaha! Well, I liked it, anyway. 😀
She didn’t divorce you for “lack of empathy”, she divorced you because you are weak. She felt she had to tell what to do and felt you were incapable of living to her standard.
Don’t over analyze this. She felt you were not an equal, a child in a relationship with a woman.
If you choose to have another relationship communicate better and step up to the plate as a man, not a child who needs directions.
Matt
don’t let the bottom feeders get at you. Buster hymen? Seriously? Don’t even acknowledge that guy. Children reading an article about real man problems react as such. It’s a safe bet he doesn’t have a wife to leave him and if he does she didn’t finish high school either.
The article is spot on. My wife forwarded it to me b/c it so accurately portrays our life together and her feelings. I can deal with not understanding her feelings, but I struggle mightily with her holding me accountable for things she needs that I don’t. I don’t expect her to put the dishes away; I do it when I get to it. I HAVE TO HAVE LOGIC. I simply despise things that don’t make sense.
Thank you for this. I’m not ashamed to admit it’s been frustrating seeing so many people mistakenly or intentionally misrepresent what this is supposed to me.
Just a simple little story about why I believe many marriages fail.
You get it from every angle. And you made me laugh a couple times.
I appreciate that very much. You have no idea. Thank you.
Actually, being a lazy slob is grounds for a divorce. Why would anyone not want to get out of that situation and move on to someone who isn’t a lazy slob?
We had this argument about having to ask him to do something five times or more the other day. It was epic and explosive. He didn’t understand that by me having to ask you to do a simple thing like put your eight month pregnant wife’s heavy three foot jewelry box into the closet instead of in the garage was sub a huge deal. Well, like you said it is exhausting having to ask someone who is supposed to love and care you to do something over and over again. Don’t give everybody else your best and then when you come home give your family the leftovers. It is t right or fair.
Like asking someone to pick up HER clothes off the bathroom floor?? Or put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher instead of the sink?? Or maybe flush the damn toilet?? GROW UP!!! MARRIAGE IS A TWO WAY STREET!!
This man gets it! It’s as if he was able to enter the brain of a woman and all os a sudden get it. Sorry it was too late for his marriage to be saved, but what a lucky lady the next one will be.
Come on man!! So I’m I entitled to get a divorce because my wife leaves her dirty clothes on the floor after changing from work?? Or leaves dirty dishes in the sink instead of putting them in the dishwasher?? GROW UP !!! If my wife HAD to be babied like that she’s not much of an adult!!
If she can leave over a mere glass, then my honest response would be, “good riddance”. There were bigger and deeper underlying issues and the glasses were mere excuses. There’s a healthy give and take in every relationship and the view that men are the ones that litter is not a correct one and has only been made to seem so because women do a bigger job of cleaning and are always whining about this role and make it appear like they themselves do not litter. As I said if she could leave all because of mere glasses, it’s “good riddance”
Deeper and underlying issues indeed! I posted further down about what I believe the issue is. She doesn’t find you attractive anymore, or you, her.
People will poo-poo this reasoning as superficial and irrelvant. To which I respond…you’re right, she can’t wait to jump your bones every day and also complains about the glass.
This perpetuates a horrible myth, that men have to change for women. Could you have put your glass in the dishwasher? Sure. But she could have just as easily learned to not be so upset over something so trivial.
I get it, you’re playing to women here. You’re telling them exactly what they want to hear. “It’s his fault!!!!!” And I see it’s working out well for you.
Here in the real world, getting so upset over something you could do yourself is petty and childish. Men should not have to change for women any more than women should have to change for men.
I’ve been married for 22 years. 22 years after saying I do, my wife and I still do things the other may not like. But we respect each other enough to realize such triviality isn’t worth throwing away a marriage. In your metaphor, whichever one of us was upset by the glass would just take care of the damn glass.
Here’s the thing, anyone that would throw away a marriage over “a glass in the sink” didn’t respect the marriage in the first place. Of course, I only have that 22 years to base that on, I could be wrong.
No one needs to “change.” They need to “understand.”
You’re smart enough to understand that this wasn’t REALLY about a glass by the sink, and you’re wise enough to have had a 22-year marriage run (congrats, by the way); but somehow didn’t make the macro-level connection.
When we don’t respect our partners, even when we don’t understand or agree with them, EVERYTHING breaks.
This isn’t about doing chores.
This isn’t about pettiness.
This isn’t about nagging wives or lazy husbands.
It’s about how, more often than not, husbands and wives LITERALLY do not understand what one another are saying to each other, especially during emotional arguments.
When we learn to give a shit about things for no other reason than our partners caring about them, marriages get to stop ending.
When two people don’t give a shit about dirty glasses, it’s obviously not a problem in their marriage.
I’m sure there are marriages where BOTH partners care about dirty glasses.
Many–like mine–involve just one.
I write about husbands, because I was a husband. I write about men, because I don’t pretend to understand what it’s like to be a woman.
I can only write authoritatively about my own life. It’s what I’ve done for for a little over 30 months now.
I tell my story, so that guys like me can learn the lesson before everything turns to shit.
Guys who aren’t like me won’t get it. Women who don’t give a shit about the things my wife gave a shit about won’t get it.
But, I’m sorry–you’re making the same mistake as all these other more ignorant guys doomed to relationship failure who are leaving comments focusing on the Battle of the Sexes and division of labor and specific gender crap.
The takeaway is SUPPOSED to be: Your partner cares deeply about things. You will not always care about those same things. But in marriage, you RESPECT the things your partner cares about, even if you don’t also care.
You care BECAUSE she cares. (Or she cares because you care.)
I think that’s how the rest of us get to 22 years and counting, sir. The guys who are like me.
The take away was that YOU needed to care about what was important to her, no matter how irrational she was.
Your metaphor makes a good point but it’s not the one you meant to make. Your wife wanted you to changes. There is nothing respectful about wanting someone to change. If you were a drunk, abusive, maybe a compulsive gambler, these are things you might need to change.
Not putting a glass away or leaving your underwear laying around or any other such trivial matter are just that, trivial matters.
If it was important to you that she cooked you dinner every night by 6, no one would be on your side. Everyone, myself included, would tell you that you’re being unreasonable. No one would say, ‘well, if she respects you, she’ll do it.”
Marriage is not just a give and take, it’s also “let the little stuff go.” Ask any long term married couple if their partner does things that annoy them and you’ll get a resounding yes.
The secret is not in becoming the person your partner wants you to be, it’s in accepting your partner for who they are.
She doesn’t try to change me and I don’t try to change her BECAUSE we care.
You really need a like button, Matt. This response is spot-on.
Ok, so this diatribe between Ranting Monkey and yourself… Gentlemen! Really the issue is personality changes vs task based changes. I have been married for 18 years, have 4 kids, and accept that you cannot change someone’s fundamental personality. But trying to show love and respect by trying to alter how you do a chore is not changing their character. It is redirecting a habit, which is totally doable! And it is for a good reason. To honor and respect your partner.
My husband is a neat freak, but doesn’t want to actually do the work that that mentality supports. So in order to help him keep his sanity, I try to accommodate that in our house. I like to have my yard and car look and work great by no effort of my own. If he really loves me, he will change the damn oil and refill my fluids and either get one of our kids to mow, or do it himself after a long days work… Lol. He is in the habit-altering-character-building cycle just as much as I am. Do we expect each other to fundamentally change? No. We expect each other to accommodate the other while not always understanding, or agreeing with, their perspective. Matt, you did a great job on this article. It’s the little things that have hidden significance. Metaphorically the glass was a terrific example. I know I have been devalued in my own mind by things like hubby leaving socks in the living room for 18 yrs, but at least I have the presence of mind to know the man isn’t purposefully disrespecting me. Ranting Monkey, surely you and your wife quit doing something that annoys the other just for the sake of sanity. You don’t change who you are as your base character, but you work together to get along. And if your answer is, no, that neither of you ever have to compromise … Then I assure you, she has been making huge sacrificial compromises your entire 22 years. Hopefully I am misunderstanding your POV like you are missing his.
Matt, Keep up the good writing.
“The Ranting Monkey”, I think “the glass” is more symbolic of him taking responsibility for his part in the breakdown, which I believe is what we should all strive for. Whether we believe someone or a situation is right or wrong, doesn’t matter at the end of the day. Really we can only ask ourselves, “what can I do to make it better?” or “what was my part in creating the problem?” That’s the biggest service we can do ourselves, and those around us.
As we all know, the only thing we can change is … ourselves. I nearly died trying to change my husband because my body broke down from the chronic stress. I think it’s hard to compare any 2 marriages, so as to give advice about one based on another, as they are all so different; with 2 different humans involved. Obviously, no one lives inside any marriage, except their own. At the end of the day, in life and marriages alike, we can only change ourselves as an attempt to make anything in our lives better.
However, some marriages may withstand up to “50 glasses”, while others could withstand enough “glasses” to hold an Ocean of water, while still some may breakdown over “a glass.” I think it solely depends on the 2 individuals. My guess is, there are many more than “1 glass” to every divorce and “enough glasses to hold an Ocean” is probably more than 1 person could handle “picking up.” No I’m not divorced. I’ve been married for 19 years. I’m just hoping that we all see that all marriages are different. We all live with the paradigms that we, and our spouse have been programmed with since birth; and that’s different for EVERYONE, just as the “number of glasses” any 1 person can “pick up” is.
I think “the glass” is more symbolic of him taking responsibility for his part in the breakdown, which I believe is what we should all strive for. Whether we believe someone or a situation is right or wrong, doesn’t matter at the end of the day. Really we can only ask ourselves, “what can I do to make it better?” or “what was my part in creating the problem?” That’s the biggest service we can do ourselves, and those around us.
As we all know, the only thing we can change is … ourselves. I nearly died trying to change my husband because my body broke down from the chronic stress. I think it’s hard to compare any 2 marriages, so as to give advice about one based on another, as they are all so different; with 2 different humans involved. Obviously, no one lives inside any marriage, except their own. At the end of the day, in life and marriages alike, we can only change ourselves as an attempt to make anything in our lives better.
However, some marriages may withstand up to “50 glasses”, while others could withstand enough “glasses” to hold an Ocean of water, while still some may breakdown over “a glass.” I think it solely depends on the 2 individuals. My guess is, there are many more than “1 glass” to every divorce and “enough glasses to hold an Ocean” is probably more than 1 person could handle “picking up.” No I’m not divorced. I’ve been married for 19 years. I’m just hoping that we all see that all marriages are different. We all live with the paradigms that we, and our spouse have been programmed with since birth; and that’s different for EVERYONE, just as the “number of glasses” any 1 person can “pick up” is.
I get the metaphor, I promise I do. I also get that he’s looking at what he could have done better, which is admirable. If he tells me he wasn’t respectful enough to his wife, I’ll take his word for it.
However, the metaphor here has nothing to do with respect. The saying, “happy wife, happy life” is nonsense. He could have done everything she wanted, paid attention to everything important to her and it still would not have lasted because marriage has to be built on mutual respect, not just giving in to your partner at every turn.
Funny thing about having no self respect, no one else respects you either, including a spouse you completely cater to.
Frankly, this makes women sound like petty children. Imagine the response if this were reversed. If he thought she should change her behavior to suit him. I guarantee you the comments wouldn’t be positive.
I wasn’t there. I don’t know why his marriage fell apart. I do know it was doomed if “respect” is seen as justifying irrational pettiness.
Very good article. Respect is so important in a relationship. Thank you for a very well written article.
There are two types of men: “mama’s boys” who never grew up and expect any woman they meet to support them the same way their mother did, and men who realize women are equal and aren’t there to babysit men.
That’s uncomfortable for a lot of people to deal with. We don’t want to tarnish what are hopefully positive feelings about our mothers and home life growing up.
But I very much agree: Sons coddled by mothers grow up to be guys who make entitled, shitty partners.
They’re not necessarily bad men. Just bad husbands.
Aw crap! I have a 16 yr old son… Pretty sure he’s a classic momma’s boy. Very protective of me, carries all the heavy stuff no complaints, But ask him to do dishes and straighten his room… Mouthy butt head makes an appearance and I gotta shout for him to shut up the negativity.
Could be the age. Could be the that I enabled him. But I’ll be damned if he is a shitty husband because of our relationship.
Any tips (that aren’t from stupid commenters about quit coddling, punish him, etc…) He is intelligent, and very male. I am intelligent, and very female. Therefore, I realize we do not speak the same language.
Being literally days away from my husband being diagnosed with not one but possibly two types of cancer (tests are continuing ). A week away from our 12th anniversary. People need to look at what is important in their lives. A glass on the counter or any of the little things we do that irritate one another mean nothing at all in the scope of a loving relationship.
Wow, first time I have read a male’s perspective on this, you hit it right on the nose! How do I respond when my 60 something husband replies ” I don’t know how ” when I ask him for the thousandth time why he didn’t start the(full) dishwasher or hang his coat up ( always leaves it on a dining room chair), so frustrating and after all these years, as we are now empty nesters, leaves me warn down and feeling like his maid. And you totally got it, I am not his mother, nor do I want to be, thanks for the opportunity to vent! The passive-aggressive behavior is really over the top!
Great blog
Early In my marriage I had a similar scenario, socks by the bed. Every time I picked up his dirty socks I felt so angry! However. A friend told me “if that’s the worst thing he does” I realized I loved him in my life more than not having socks on the floor. I don’t pick them up and if one is peeking out from his side of the bed I kick it back so I don’t see it. I’ve loved his messes for 30 years now. Each partner needs to embrace the differences respect is only the foundation to build upon.
Wow….I guess it’s all in how you look at it. My husband always leaves dishes in the sink, always leaves a glass beside the sink. Does it bother me? It used to. Til I realized his bringing them to the sink IS his way of helping me. He doesn’t leave them all over the family room, bedroom, etc. And if he put them in the dishwasher, I’d move them around! A glass by the sink? Yes….because there was a glass by the sink all the years he grew up. I do things the way my mother did….why can’t he? He helps me in a million ways–laundry, bed making, carries in groceries, with the kids….and on and on. I’d rather focus on what he does….
As I read through some of the comments I started thinking some people really don’t get it. I am currently going through a divorce for very same thing. Feeling un wanted and unappreciated. While I am not perfect nor do I keep a spotless clean house I definitely believe in give and take but when one gives and the other only takes it gets exhausting. I am a stay at home mom who did everything a normal wife/mother would do on top of helping in any way I could with the horse business we had. I fed and watered horses daily. I would catch them out of the pasture clean them up help him do anything I could physically do when he was taking a load somewhere. We aren’t talking one or two horses either we are talking sometimes up to 30 horses that had to be cared for. He would come in late with a load I got out of bed and prepared stalls and helped up load sometimes at two or three in the morning. He didn’t help in the house with anything and everytime I turned around everything was his because I didn’t work outside the home he didn’t take time to spend with me and everyone could see it but me. Then I was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer and he still expected all these things from me and never went to doctors appointments or treatments with me didn’t ask how I felt or anything. Instead it was can’t you get up and do something around here the house is a mess horses gotta be taken care of and it like you work. No instead I was doing chemo and raising three kids. I finally smelt the coffee that he was never going to change. He was never going to give on anything. So while leaving the glass by the sink is crazy to leave I sure understand the part of feeling unloved and unappreciated. It’s the small things that we as women take to heart and makes us know you care. When I left and filed for divorce he was shocked and couldn’t understand why. Maybe if he had listened all the times I tried to tell him what I needed from him instead of brushing it off that you don’t do this or that things could have been different. The more unappreciated I felt the less I did for him and then he got mad and said I was lazy. Sometimes it takes drastic measures to wake people up and I am grateful you saw your mistakes and understood the real meaning behind it. Takes a strong person to admit they are wrong. Like I said I am not perfect and a messy house doesn’t bother me but being appreciated makes a huge difference for men and women. I didn’t always say thank u for going to work or paying the bills as that is part of being an adult but he felt entitled to a thank you for everything and appreciated nothing I did. No amount of communication seemed to work either. Thanks for this blog maybe it will help some relationships.
Thank you for your story. I can only imagine how much added pain and stress a partner like that caused by not being a partner. Good for you for taking action.
Alb2011, thank you for your beautiful story! It hits home…. illness and all! You’re an inspiration!
This is completely accurate, especially the part about it not mattering how many times you explain why something is important. It wasn’t until I was out the door that he understood it completely and then it was too late.
Wow! This hits home a little bit too hard. Married to my spouse for 23.5 years and three kids ages 12 and under, I get a lot of what is posted and find comfort in so many responses. I am not the only one going through this. Your words of my wife said it is exhausting to tell me what to do all the time is where I am at but even if I did tell him something, he still won’t do. He won’t do things I ask because he doesn’t like being told what to do and has told me so. Yet, he takes very little initiative to get things done or it takes him forever. I would love to share this blog post with him but based on other things I shared in the past, the response I would like or need would not happen. So I don’t bother. As I contemplate a divorce with no family nearby for support (12 hours away), I find amusement in our situation. (I can do this because he is not abusive.)
My wife of 25 years is divorcing me. Reading this does not make me feel any better. Makes me feel so low that I could walk under a snake’s belly while wearing a top hat.
I’m a divorce attorney and I think this is genius. Couples need to live intentionally to continue to show appreciation for each other. You nail this situation on the head. And the guy that doesn’t listen finds himself in my office wondering what the hell went wrong!
Continuing to do things that drive your partner “in sane” is just dumb. If it matters to them, it should matter to you. It’s just that simple. You don’t have to understand it. In fact, it’s because you are two different people that you CAN’T understand it all. But what you CAN understand is that we all need to be respected for who we are. I get to be “me” with my likes, dislikes, etc. and you get to be “you” with your likes and dislikes. And we have every day of our lives to show our respect of the other partner.
Nice article with great methodical points that connect the dots nicely. My comment may seem negative but it’s an attempt to extend the “glass” to women too.
I know that many women are not going to want to turn the table and introspect but please consider a different sink and glass. When you tell a man who essentially as a boy, would put his you know what in anything that moved, no and make him wait for sex; something you seemed to like while dating; when both our HOMES were a mess just to have more time to hump more like rabbits; when he knew and saw and felt and craved that you liked it and it was a gift for you; that his body was made for you, then that man who is now not getting his “dishwasher” also feels unloved.
I realize that her emotional foundation is found in that glass or clothes on the floor, but have you ever considered that while lying in bed watching Netflix on your “personal data assistant” that he is lying there boiling with resentment because you are you are given to a brain prosthetic rather than a flesh and blood lover who craves you. It’s almost like instead of rolling over for the real thing, you reached into the nightstand, pull out Mr vibrator and proceed to use it right in our face.
Sex, being the classic man “glass in the sick; we start to REASON sex was a trap – why would you hump me on the floor falling just inside the door while dating and not now. We might REASON you don’t love us anymore when you let 3 months go by with no physical contact, like passing at a bus stop. And it hurts us too because you’d be the first to cry, he cheated on me! But did you cheat him out of his VALIDATION first?
No, I agree with this article only in the sense that the glass is many things and that the word men in the article should be changed to the word people. He is right, if the glass in the dishwasher translates into – you don’t think I’m a slave, then it should also be a precursor to sex. Call it foreplay.
I regard the wife as a child since she is the one who left. She is the one who put the marriage commitment below her personal desires and feelings. Marriages survive and thrive as an exercise of putting self below the mutual commitment. She is the one who failed. A mentor with a very successful loving marriage once told me jokingly that you never give a woman what she wants; because she doesn’t know what she wants. I don’t totally agree with that but it has to do with nagging. I see that the wife put her feelings above the marital commitment. The fact that the writer introspected and wrote is showing that though he took her dishwashing skills for granted, he loved a person more selfish than himself. I’m not using the term “selfish bitch” though I could just remember hearing that term come out of someone’s mouth in an argument once or twice but the fact that she left proves that she gave to self more than the commitment while this loving guy searches for meaning where he went wrong.
It was a good passage and it needed to be directed to men specifically, but we hurt too and get invalidated too but if we use words like that, guess who might call us a pussy? That song, “I’m a bitch” So concisely gets it so right, that I wouldn’t want it any way. But it still means you are a bitch.
I love my wife; would lay my life down for her but sometimes she just needs to be told, I’m sorry I put the glass in the sink, I’ll try better next time but it’s only fucking glass now go upstairs and get on the bed.
A little secret is, if we were a finished product, perfect metro sexual whimp, put my socks in the drawer type, you wouldn’t like us much. You married a man. If you wanted a woman, you’d be lesbian. But also, ladies, I don’t want my wife a slave either. So, I’ll meet you half way. Just let me know when I get to do the dirty, and I don’t mean dishes. And, Mr article writer, don’t fret, you are better off without her. She’s a selfish failure. Just next time do the dishes.
Reading your article literally brought me to tears. This is my exact situation as of now. I’m at my breaking point. If he even reads it at all (which I have begged him to do), I will be surprised. It just breaks a woman’s heart to love someone so much & feel as if they always “do” for them without being asked, but yet can’t get that same respect or appreciation back. I’ve always thought it was me. Asked myself “is it really worth a fight”? So I would hold my tongue & push the issue aside. I realize now that it’s not & there are some men out there that are capable, if willing, to change. I just hope my husband is one of them. Thank you for writing this!
I have read this article 3 times. Well done. If my ex husband read and unstood this, it may have saved my marriage. This helped me in seeing that he honestly didn’t get it…but after several years of feeling like a lonely maid and prostitute in my marriage, I left. It’s been 16 years since my divorce and i have never remarried because I always look for the early warning signs in a man lacking this knowledge and understanding. I hope your article teaches wise men knowledge rather than learning it the hard way as you did. Bless and thank you for sharing your heart.
Thank you!
Thank you so much for writing this blog. Maybe it’s that I’m 5 months pregnant, but it made me cry.
You really made me realize that I have a great husband. He always makes me feel wanted and loved and respected. Now I’m totally trying to figure out ways in which I can be a better wife.
Hubby was previously married and has two kids. He’s a family law attorney, so when I ask him how he just gets how women think, he attributes it to his job – to knowing that he doesn’t want to be in the position his clients are in. Maybe that’s why he’s so great.
Anyway, thanks for such great insight, and for enforcing that I married the right guy…even if I already knew that. 🙂
This is as awesome of a comment as I can possibly get here. Thank you for not making it about dishes or pettiness or gender battles or power struggles.
It’s just about implementing best practices in a marriage to ensure its long-term viability.
Doing so enhances and strengthens the good feeling we already felt for our partners, rather than destroying them.
I appreciate so much that you, a wife, a female, in a great marriage with mutual respect, can identify what this is supposed to be about.
Thank you very much.
I confess, I’m confused about what’s happening here, is it genuine self flagellation or is it parody? The discontinuity between thought and revelation lead me to believe it’s the former: an exercise in prostration for someone who paints himself a sinner. Oh and those sins…
“Feeling respected by one’s wife is essential to living a purposeful and meaningful life. Maybe I thought my wife should respect me simply because I exchanged vows with her. It wouldn’t be the first time I acted entitled”
I wonder what you meant by -respect- there, deference to your every whim? Somehow I don’t think so, it wouldn’t be… consistent with your other thoughts. I think the -entitlement- that seems to stir your regret was probably something more modest, maybe the basic respect for human dignity that should be extended to anyone. The right to have your thoughts and feelings considered, the right to expression — of opinion and creative urge, of freedom from abuse, coercion and… manipulation. Guess what, that is an entitlement, for the man in the street who sleeps on the bench, for the cat lady with her doll she pushes in a shopping basket and ever for a male spouse.
I’m being unfair though because those rights are extended to persons, someone with their own identity. How can you expect them to be bestowed upon an individual with no identity of their own? An individual who appreciates, “how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time” and can truly pre-empt such demands, exists only as an extension of another’s volition. Such an entity cannot be expected to leave evidence of it’s material existence around in the sink and be tolerated. By the way, was there a space in your shared domicile, somewhere you could fart and listen to the music you like, tinker with broken kettles and stack your screwdrivers without fear of them being misused. Perhaps it was shed on your plot, an outbuilding, somewhere suitably remote from the hearth of the home, please tell me you at least had a cardboard box under the stairs.
Gosh though, men are just so infantile, thanks for reminding me. I wonder what it’s like to be truly adult and know that: “she comes first and that I can be counted on to be there for her, and needn’t look elsewhere for happiness and fulfillment…”, surely the epitome of independence and maturity. I’m sorry– I had to exploit that but you wanted me to really, because as I stated, it’s your inconsistencies that betray your true meaning. Amid all the ostensible supplication and self deprecation, you couldn’t help but let the truth out.
Wow. This is good. Best I’ve ever read.
Thank you for saying so. It’s much appreciated.
This article is spot on. My husband and I just had the same argument leaving us both with the question is it time to walk away. I can’t make him understand what you poignantly described and most times I am the one who gives in and apologies for making it a big deal. For the sake of the marriage. Leaving me feeling like a second class citizen. It’s like we speak different languages and we just don’t understand each other. Thank you for making me feel like I’m not insane.
I absolutely love this! May I include it on my blog (giving you complete credit, of course)?
Please share as you see fit, Amy. Thank you for asking!
You’re welcome and thank YOU! Such a thought provoking article that may just save relationships. Well done!
Reblogged this on Musings Illuminated and commented:
This is a long read, but worth it!
I think this article is spot on in describing a particular dynamic at a particular point in the relationship. What the author seems to miss is the fact that once this point is reached, its like dropping a stone from a height. The stone may take years or decades to hit the ground, but hit the ground it will despite anyone’s efforts. To wit: if either party was suddenly placed into a relationship with their celebrity crush let’s say, are you telling me the wife would give a hoot about the glass? Any more than the husband would dare leave one there? Physical attractiveness, chemistry if you will, is the ultimate key. Not that either has to be gorgeous, they just need to be thought of and appear that way to the other. Everything else falls in line by virtue of that. What the author is describing is a situation where that feeling is already gone on both side. Like an already lost chess game where you try to improve your position fompletely ignoring the fact that you are already down an insurmountable amount of material. Or trying to strike a fire with wet matches. The work is irrelevant at that point.
Thank you.
So very, very much.
The understanding of what marriage itself is lost on the majority of this country. People divorcing over differences in their personalities that they find out later. It’s not about the man or woman, it’s both. We treat marriage like it’s our play thing, when actually it’s a covenant the man and woman makes with God. Loving someone is a choice, on both sides. If someone is questioning if you love them or not because of a messy lifestye you have, then there is a bigger problem. Fellowship with God together (pray together) Pray after you have an argument (for forgiveness and for God to help your partner) Tell each other how you feel, keep nothing hidden. Man, if you screw up, be humble enough to say you’re sorry! Love your wives as Christ loves the church, for you are to be as Christ is as head of the church. There is your standard. There should be no question in her mind that you love her. Everyone has their own quirks and baggage. But it’s not enough in the eyes of God to end a marriage over. You are trying to make a marriage work (marriage being from God) with worldly love. That is, performance based love, conditional love. This marriage will most often fail because it’s a mockery of what God intended. First, you both must have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. To know Him and not only of Him. You must help each other in the both of your spiritual walk. You can’t make it without Him. Draw close to Christ together, experience the feeling of the love of Christ. Only by knowing of His love can you share it with one another. So then after you love someone as much as you can humanly love someone, then you let yourself be a conduit for heaven to reach your partner, letting the love of Christ pour through you. Loving your partner with the love of Christ. It helps if you can see the ways of Christ in your partner, so your love for Christ spills over onto your partner. So as you both draw close to God, you will find yourselves drawing nearer to one another. If you do that, the glass near the sink will not bother you anymore.
Yes, it will.
When I traveled in religious circles, I heard over and over that “women need to feel loved and men need to feel respected”…almost always from a male “expert” on the Bible and relationships. This simplistic view suggests that men don’t need love and women don’t need respect. Such thinking and teaching does a disservice to both men and women because everybody needs and deserves to be loved and respected.
Religion is definitely not the answer. Might as well just take valium.
Then obviously you have never had a close walk with God!
So because you are not religious means you don’t have guidelines? Take the comment and remove the religious content. It still applies.The understanding of what marriage itself is lost on the majority of this country. People divorcing over differences in their personalities that they find out later. It’s not about the man or woman, it’s both. We treat marriage like it’s our play thing, Loving someone is a choice, on both sides. If someone is questioning if you love them or not because of a messy lifestye you have, then there is a bigger problem.Man, if you screw up, be humble enough to say you’re sorry!There should be no question in her mind that you love her. Everyone has their own quirks and baggage. That is, performance based love, conditional love. This marriage will most often fail. You must help each other Draw close together, experience the feeling of the love. So then after you love someone as much as you can humanly love someone, then you let yourself be a conduit of that love. So, you will find yourselves drawing nearer to one another. If you do that, the glass near the sink will not bother you anymore.
There, I took religion out of it for you.
I don’t understand people like you. You will take excellent advice and throw it right out the window because someone said that dirty word…..God.
I am not religious but I have never known anyone who is to give me advice related to God that has EVER sent me in the wrong direction. Stop being a fool and just take the advice and use it as you will. You religion hater.
On the contrary I do have guidelines, the most obvious one being that human beings are only one type of millions of living creatures on this earth who are not exempt from the laws of science simply because we have concocted the concept of god to counteract our fear of the unknown.
I believe people are inherently good. I feel no need for a religious paint-by-numbers set to instruct me how to be a good person.
That said, I do believe that physical chemestry between people is the start of it all. It’s when you don’t have it that you have to start constructing otherwise naturally occurring things like respect and admiration. Those things are by-products of physical attraction not a means to get there. If those feelings don’t come naturally out of your attraction to the other person then the manufactured kind will not work to hold you together.
Tang is not orange juice.
Joe, are you really allowing your own ignorance to compare medication to a relationship with God! I suspect you will leave the glass on the counter!
So you’ve never heard the phrase ‘religion is the opiate of the people’?
And you’ve never seen the hypocritical scenario of strangers holding hands in church then screaming at each other from cars in the parking lot 20 minutes later?
As a youngster, I have.
Ignorance indeed.
Honestly guys. We’re not going to have a religion and theology debate here. Thank you for being semi-kind to one another.
If you love your wife with the love of Christ, you will put the glass in the dishwasher. Do you think God gives us the beauty of nature because He doesn’t have enough beauty in Heaven and actually needs, say, colorful sunsets? God gives us every day a thousand things our physical selves crave and enjoy, things God doesn’t need and knows that we could go on breathing if we didn’t have either. If God Himself bothered to give the colors to the sunset and then gave us the ability to see then, then you can bother to give your wife the beauty and pleasure of a clear kitchen counter.
Myrtlemartha, while this gentleman’s post wasn’t going in that direction, you made an excellent point. Husbands, wives, children, coworkers, everyone who has the love of Christ and walks in it will absolutely care more about the people they interact with. I appreciate your boldness for speaking Christ’s name in response to this article.
Thank you for standing against the ultra – pettiness of the view described in the article above. Thanks for having an infinitely greater standard than egotism.
These are the same women having abortions simply because it’s inconvenient for them.
There’s a zero-percent chance we are having an abortion debate under a post intended to help families stay together and children raised in the best-possible environment.
There’s already entirely too much flaming and insults going on. No way are we going off on a tangent RE: America’s most controversial and divisive subject.
Please and thank you.
Loving God is great. However, if a partner doesn’t feel loved and respected, the marriage will end. You missed the point of the entire article. It’s one man’s realization of how the little things matter in ways we don’t understand because men and women feel, reason, love differently. In case you missed it, they aren’t mad about the glass, or “the messy lifestyle.” They are hurt that their partner doesn’t care enough about them to even put their stuff away.
Religion may work for you, and that’s fabulous, but there are millions of marriages that survive without your beliefs every day. I am not discounting how it can help if you are a truly religious person, but to say “you can’t make it without Him” is not true for everyone, and it’s why you missed the point of the article. Work on your relationship with Christ, that’s awesome. But don’t forget your partner is human and while Christ may love you, she might just think you’re an asshole. So, check in with her from time to time. Do the little things that show her you love her too. (and btw, women also need to do that.) It’s important to notice the ways our partners show love if we want to maintain our relationships.
Exactly. If a man (or woman) is not willing to change something minor for the sake of their marriage, then they don’t deserve the marriage they’re in. It’s all about whether or not an individual is willing to fight for their marriage. Are they willing to change for the sake of their loved one or will pride always win out in the end? If a person isn’t willing to change something so small and minor as putting a cup away, then that speaks great lengths to how much their
really means to them.
There is no covenant with God without the love or respect. I agree that marriage should be taken seriously, but that should happen regardless of what I believe. I think people lean on prayer to solve the world’s problems, but there has to be an equivalent action to determine what the issue is between you and your partner. You can pray and pray and pray and walk away with the same problems. The prayer makes you both feel great at that moment, but you go back to being yourselves. I kind of agree with the article above. But, I also think on the side of the wife, there needs to be a choosing of battles. Because your husband doesn’t put his glass in the dishwasher, doesn’t mean he doesn’t respect you. It’s just muscle memory. It’s not that deep. Sometimes with men, they love you and respect you in different ways. It is your job as a wife to recognize how your husband loves and respects you. People are also not mind readers, so if something is bothering you, then tell your partner in a non-accusatory or non-argumentative way. I doubt that you leaving dishes by the sink was the only reason your wife left you. I’m not trying to be snide in my comment. But, there are many things my husband does that gets on my nerves like not not closing cabinets and leaving his socks where he takes them off. But, I couldn’t imagine my life without him by my side.
Leah my point is that if the man or woman truly wanted to be in the relationship….truly….either the glass scenario wouldn’t come up or at most it would come up once. If the man had to be told that the woman he truly wants didn’t like the glass it would never happen a second time.
By this I mean the glass or any other thing like it. In short there isn’t anything the man wouldn’t do for this woman and vice versa. And that willingness wouldnt stem from fear of divorce it comes from natural willingness. He wouldn’t even view it as work.
Bruce you’re not wrong but I think you’ve missed the point here. It’s very simple…if you refuse to love someone the way they wish to be loved (even if it’s as silly as putting a glass away), then you aren’t really loving them, you’re loving yourself. Our Savior said it perfectly, and we can certainly apply this wisdom to the marriage relationship: “If you love me, keep my commands.”
This is a ton of bull! It’s clear these people didn not have open communications and that’s clearly why divorced. If your significant other has done something the same way for how ever many years and you didn’t make mention of it the very first time it happened then don’t be upset it hasn’t changed since then. The true problem comes when we choose our lifetime partners. Men choose that girl that is perfect right now. She fishes, she hunts, she loves camping, she loves staying at home, playing video games…she’s perfect! Women choose men who have the quality to be a great husband, father, supporter, ” and with a little work I’ll make this man the man of my dreams.” Then they start dating and eventually they move in together, that’s when she starts getting irritated about the glass but doesn’t say anything and puts it on the list of things to change about him. They get married and she starts to mold him. And she finds it isn’t working out to well to she thinks of she changes something about herself he will change something about himself. So she cuts her hair short because they were watching a movie where this girl had short hair and he mentioned how interesting the hair cut was on that actress. That didn’t work so she changes something else and eventually is almost the total opposite of what she was before marriage and he’s exactly the same leaving that glass by the sink. If you want that glass to be put in the dish washer either the very first time you see it left you say something about now or put it in the dishwasher, but you can’t be mad 5-10-15 years down the road for still doing it.
Doug read Bruce’s comment . He hit the nail on the head. ..you of all hit your thumb with your logic about marriage and/or realationship.
No one should criticize this man for trying to gain more prespective on why his marriage failed. Yes, it takes two…bit marriage isn’t 50/50; it’s 100/100. Both partners need to put every effort into making their marriage work, and if he is realizing one of the major faults he had during his marriage and sharing it with others in an effort to help other men gain insight on the issue then good for him!! -Doug – It’s interesting that you call this post “a ton of bull” when your reply is so off. Your “understanding” of women and their motives for getting married are incorrect and obviously biased. That may be your perspective on why women choose a husband, but as a woman who has been married for over 13 years and who has many married friends I can honestly say that this is not the case. To you, men marry women because they are “perfect” in the moment and women marry men with the intention of changing them. Clearly the view of a jilted man. The reality is that yes, men marry women who may seem perfect in the moment, and they have unreasonable and unfair expectations that things will always be the same. He can continue life the way he always has and the women will not change with age, maturity, and circumstances. In my experience, a woman marries the man she loves because she loves him with his faults (because we are realistic enough to know that NO ONE is perfect) and she marries him despite his flaws. The problem is that life does change things; jobs become more demanding, families grow, life gets harder, and more effort is needed to not only hold things together around the house but also to hold together the relationship. The wife needs more help and in all honesty HAS been telling him about that glass for 5-10-15 years. The point of this postbis thatbthis is not the first time these situations are being brought up to the husband…it’s been an increasingly occurring problem that has been addressed millions of times but like the author said…the husband just didn’t get it. She sees these acts as acts of disrespect because as the load on her increases she wants her partner to help bear some of the burden rather than to increase her burden. As they have more children, her husband should be a partner in the house rather than act like another child. The wife became more and more exhausted and felt less and less like an equal partner. This may not be the entire reason for the divorce but it was a contributing facor. The husband realized it too late. Now he is trying to help others. Good for him.
Hit the nail on the head. Basically we want to you to be our partner , not someone else to pick up after. Just be an adult. If it’s dirty, clean it up. Don’t call me to do it.
Your response is a bit bias as well. It is fairly common knowledge that women do indeed try to “fix” their husbands. Women do expect their husbands to be mind readers and expect them to do things “because he wants to do it for her, not because she told him to do it”. The glass being left by the counter did not bother him but it bothered her so she should be the one to remove it. These little things that make the woman feel disrespected really are silly. We need a female perspective on what the wife could have and should have done to make this marriage work. Men and women are wired differently and expecting a man to think and act like a woman is not an option, so women have to learn to recognize all of the things her husband does that shows his love and devotion and not over analyze silly things like leaving a dish by the sink. The wife in this scenario appears to be a controlling woman. If a man repeatedly told a woman to do or not do something the feminists would be accusing him of domestic violence. The bottom line her is that if one or the other doesn’t like something the other person does or doesn’t do the person with the problem should do it rather than pestering the other one. If your husband constantly criticized you for not folding the laundry the way he wants it wouldn’t you tell him to fold it himself then? I don’t like the way my wife leaves all of her make-up laying all over the bathroom and although I have told her it bothers me she has not stopped, but I haven’t divorced her for her “lack of respect”. Get some perspective ladies…you cause most of your own problems by focusing on your expectations rather than on the good things your husband actually does/did.
Happy Jack, you nailed my marriage. I was even told by my ex that she married me with the intent of fixing me (several years after the wedding ). Nothing was ever good enough and I heard about it constantly. Every petty thing like this was made into a “you don’t love or respect me” discussion. The problem was she was an immature control freak who threw temper tantrums when things didn’t go her way. Yes, I had my faults which I admit. She, not so much.
oops! Went over a lot of heads….point was missed….BUT everyone does see things differently…
Why would a grown adult even think it’s the responsibility of their spouse to clean up after them? It’s not about trying to change or not change someone’s. It’s about I also worked 60 hours outside of the home this week…why do I have to pick up after you as if you’re an invalid? If you are perfectly capable of cleaning up after yourself, there is no reason I should’ve had to tell you even the first time. Even children are capable of cleaning up after themselves. Heck, I’ve seen dogs that can pick up and put away toys. But you think a grown man should have to be told to clean up after himself? And if he wasn’t told the first time, he gets a lifetime pass?
This is from a man who has been through a divorce. It takes TWO to start a fight and TWO to end it. There is ALWAYS another side that most do not know much less want to know. A relationship takes TWO. From the way this is written, it is ONE sided and only from “her” perspective as “he” understands it.
Sorry, but I am not buying this…
There only needs to be one takeaway, then.
Accept responsibility for yourself and don’t point fingers.
I see all these guys justifying dumbass choices by saying: “Well she does this and that!!!! How is that fair!?!?!”
And to them I’d say, if you and your best friend were having a good grades contest in high school, and your friend scored a 59% on a test, and you scored a 65% on the test, I’d think you (“you,” being anyone) were a huge asshole for bragging about your failing 65%.
Marriage isn’t graded on a curve.
When we do solid B+ and up work with just a tiny bit of effort, and we worry about ourselves and not others, things work out better for all involved.
I try to accept responsibility for my divorce regardless of what percentage of blame is technically mine to bear. I do so because I think it’s the highest path we can walk.
Love your response!
Thanks, David…..been there, done that…if “the glass” is the issue, and the man does 100 other things he “should,” then the marriage is screwed and skewed
Maybe that’s why you are divorced. Because you don’t “buy” it and clearly you don’t “get it either.
Loved the article!
The secret to a successful marriage is keeping each other happy. Find that one or two things that makes that person happy & accept each other for who they are, bad habits & all! Yes, he should have put the glass in the dishwasher to keep her happy & yes she shouldn’t nag him to do it. It should be a given. But in reality who cares! It’s just a glass & love & relationships are way more important than putting a glass in a dishwasher. Chill people. Yes dirty clothes on the floor & shoes in the hallway bother me but I don’t make a big thing about it, they get picked up eventually. Enjoy life & each other & go with the flow. And yes I’ve been married for 30 years. We’re a team & we’re good at it.
Yes!
Chilled, you are absolutely right. I think the younger women want the perfect household and let little things bother them. I think “Hell, he could have left it in the garage while he was working on the car, or patio while he was mowing, or bathroom while he was getting ready for work…but he brought it to the sink!” lol.
holy fucking shit – mind blown – it’s the theory of special psychological relativity – AND concisely elaborated upon to boot.
On the other hand: a person is responsible for their attitude and their own happiness. I have been the one who “could never do anything right” and I have been the one who “imposed vague unreasonable expectations”. But I figured it out: I don’t need to get upset over the toilet seat being up or down. When I go to the restroom, I put the seat down to use it, then when I am finished, I put the lid down. I don’t care anymore enough to impose my will or “feelings”. I could care less if the toilet paper rolls under or over – I’m simply grateful that 1. I have toilet paper; and 2. that maybe someone put the roll ON the holder. If they don’t, that’s okay. I’ll do it myself and keep on smiling. Why should I let it affect my good mood? If I need help keeping the house: I’ll ask. Otherwise we each have our chores – divvied up. If someone is not happy with this life – then they should go find their happiness. I don’t HAVE to be responsible for someone else’s self-esteem nor they: mine. In a caring relationship, it happens naturally.
right on
You are free to write about yourself, but stop putting down the rest of your gender! You admit you make BAD DECISIONS. You are correct. One of your bad decisions is the way you trash men.
I don’t trash men, Mike.
I believe in them. I believe they’re the key to making marriage something good and lasting.
Men are badass at MANY things.
Which is why it’s so shameful how many won’t invest as much energy in their marriage and family as they will their fantasy football league or playing Call of Duty all night.
No need to pretend it isn’t true, sir.
Yes, yes. Thank you. I struggled for years with my Ex trying to articulate this to save our marriage.
Wow well said. Why are men so stubborn…..I’ve run into this problem over over mud off workboots. He won’t stop bringing boots in the house and I just cleaned the floor. He’s tracking mud all over it. It’s true, women hear that her time is less important than his. He’s thinking who are you to tell me what to do, etc. It causes resentment and it’s a ticking time bomb really. The last straw for me was he called me to say hi and said he was going up our carpeted stairs with a sense of freedom/relief because I wasn’t there (ha ha), something a long those lines and I snapped – I’m not your f-ing mother and my heart broke because he just doesn’t get it. He suggests I’m batshit crazy and taking things too seriously…..it’s always the last piece of straw that breaks the camels back. Anyways I’m still here even though I screamed I would never ever vacuum that mud again (which lasted about a month before someone had to do it). Now I have heard the odd comment from him that it’s his turn to vacuum. I believe he may have vacuumed also – I didn’t make any snarky or snide comments about it. I was grateful to hear it. I’m on a mission now to please myself and foster my own happiness. Life is too short to lose your lid over mud……
My husband and I were just talking about this last night. It’s a second marriage for both of us. I said to him, “I feel badly because (ex husbands name) probably thinks we got divorced over taking the trash out. But you don’t get divorced over trash. The trash was just the end of it all.” Thank you so much for sharing this.
I think it is sad that when a marriage ends is when each person finds out what they could have done to stay married. Then each person moves on and does not make those mistakes again (for the most part if they cared enough to take responsibility for the marriage ending). They end up happy and could have stayed married (happy) and would not have ruined their kids lives by getting a divorce – and yes kids are affected by divorce no matter how defensive divorced people are – kids are happy and have adjusted just fine (they don’t FYI, they are trying to keep the peace and please each parent) I think if I had to live out of a suitcase and hear my parents trash each other and fight over money in court I would be pretty screwed up.
This argument is both realistic and absolutely ridiculous, and i’ll tell you why;
Yes men and women don’t have the same emotional reactions to the same situations. Things that men think are petty, women think are important and vice versa. There are hundreds of examples of this situation; sex, outdoor chores, toilet seat positioning, toilet paper direction, bed making rules, proper sock folding… the list can go on. These things take over a relationship when a certain level of consciousness is not present, when external circumstances influence what your home life should be, example like this take become topics of discussion.
We need to be able to connect on a cosmic/spiritual level with our partners, where you can feel the natural currents of energy flowing through each others bodies – to the point you can feel the internal energy of their soul. Watch Jill Boltes Ted talk to get an idea of what that state is (I can tell you I didn’t have to experience a stroke to achieve it -https://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight).
If your souls can feel each other simply by being in the same room, this is how the glass issue gets handled…
A: It will always be put away.
B: Someone will put it away
C: They won’t waste a fraction of a second thinking about who is wrong because the level of conscious that they have achieved doesn’t allow them to acknowledge it.
It’s only at the point where both people are connected at a level that is so spiritually deep and cosmically beautiful, that we will realize that the glass in the sink is just that…
a glass in the sink.
I feel as though this is what I was trying to say in my inept way above. Thank you.
I thought this was very endearing. Its about a “love language”. Hers may be respect through service … like cleaning up after you’ve made coffee, rather than leaving the spoon on the counter. His may be hearing praise … “thank you for taking out the trash”. Yes, the spoon might not be a big issue in the grand scheme of things, and the trash may be a minimum expectation … but its how each person ‘hears’ that you love them. You do the little things that add up to a lot. Kudos to the author. I really appreciated the article … I wish that all partners could read this!
Thank you for putting this out there, Matt. It is definitely a microcosm of how some women feel – it isn’t the action itself, but the intent or the feeling behind the action (or non-action, as it were). After 5 years of marriage and two kids there are instances where my husband and I both feel like this (me more so). I am a SAHM and he works full time outside our home. We are both aware of it and working on it. There are no perfect people, but we can strive to love and respect each other in a way that helps each other and builds each other up.
most women (me included) are not good at communicating to a man. we are passive aggressive instead of being blunt and forward. once you learn how to communicate with YOUR partner, you have a much better understanding relationship. i learned the hard way…. with past relationships. my partner is a great communicator but tells me clearly what works for him. easy peasy. i still can’t tell him anything while he’s watching sports, but wait for the commercial now. LOL. two to MAKE, two to break.
the article was interesting, it’s a perspective, don’t judge because your relationship doesn’t relate.
I’m so impressed with this article. The fact that it’s written by a man gives it huge credibility. They way in which it’s articulated is brilliant. I’m so sorry your marriage has ended, because it seems as though you’re more than enlightened as to how so many women (myself included) are wired. Thank you for sharing something I’m sure wasn’t easy in such a humbling, practical, and non gender-biased way. I enjoyed it tremendously.
Sometimes I think when someone is just not in love with you anymore they just hate everything you do. If it was a different man who left the glass by the sink then she would not complain and put it in the dishwasher. Sometimes as hard as it is you have to let them go I’m learning that now and I believe I am right (when you hate you hate everything about that person. Women have strange ways and if your wife made you happy and proud then you would want to help her more because she makes you happy.
I can only say I wish I’d read this YEARS back. Anyway, I totally agree with you on the way men and women think. All men should read this to ensure their partners are always loved in a manner that men will never understand. But then again, who can understand love? Love is an action, and sometimes all it takes is just 4 seconds to show it.
Thank you for sharing this truth about your marriage. Of course every relationship is different (to those posters who want to deny your experience) I’ve been married to my husband for 42 years and from this vantage point, I can look back and see all the silly things we fought about, all important to us at the time. BUT, I still say to him today, we have a good marriage, but for the identical things you bring up, we could have a great marriage. He doesn’t get it. I’ll read your post to him, but I doubt that will make a difference. We’ve had that conversation too many times. I’m glad you finally got it; though too late to save your marriage, your next relationship is going to be great. (And folks, it wasn’t ONLY about the glass by the sink)
I think I just fell in love with your mind.
Not sure where the part comes in about how the most common issue in marriage that has to do with home organization is the woman’s lack of ability to focus, and to avoid squirrel chasing. For every man who leaves a glass by the sink there is a woman who is a stay at home mom and her husband cannot walk from the front door to the kitchen for the clutter, Where pairs of her shoes are under each couch and chair and her things are left everywhere, while the stainless steel on the fridge has been polished to ballistic perfection.
This post is a bit silly. I get it, I really do, having spent 18 months in the purgatory of a near miss divorce and competing with myself daily on how much more navel gazing self blame I could heap on myself.
As an aside If you are addressing a cohort that stays up all night playing video games, you are not addressing men anyway. Yes those boys are out there. Some man boys deify sports throughout their whole lives. While women are steeped in social media.
I know a Physiologist who is also a Presbyterian Doc of Theology. He practices the former, and he told me he stopped offering marriage counseling because he came to realize men see a wedding as an event, and women see it as the beginning of her exciting new project to mold him into her likeness. Including having passion about a stupid glass by the sink, and making every decision based on the emotional filing system she has mastered…..er….that day.
Finally, there is one 100% efficacious way to stay married. DON’T FILE DIVORCE. If you didn’t cheat on her, beat on her, or abandon her…..she divorced you for childish stupid reasons that make using the glass by the sink as a teaching moment a moment of missing the forest for the potted plants.
She divorced you, she harmed your kids and you. Go build your sink and counter top out of glasses if you wish.
“Once someone figures out how to help a man equate the glass situation (which does not, and will never, affect him emotionally) with DEEPLY wounding his wife and making her feel sad, alone, unloved, abandoned, disrespected, afraid, etc”.
Why does the author presume that the glass situation does not and never affects a man emotionally? After an entire article explaining how this man’s actions invalidated his wife’s feelings, this sentence is invalidating to the man, and generalizes men. Sure, some men have thick skins or don’t need affirmation and their self-esteem isn’t undermined by wives picking fights, but not all men like that. The article was doing so well until this paragraph, which is a real pity.
I only write for men, Art. It’s about personal responsibility.
I have no idea what it’s like to be a woman or a wife.
I’m not BLAMING men. I’m not EXCUSING women.
I’m encouraging men to be great. I’m sorry if that wasn’t communicated effectively.
Would you encourage the wife to be great by telling her that the glass situation does not and never affects her emotionally? Nope, you empathized and validated her feelings, and that’s terrific.
Same for the man. Encourage him to be great by validating his feelings, and use empathy for him too. Maybe he doesn’t have a lot of friends for emotional support and the wife picking fights with him makes him that he’s not good enough for her and she’s doesn’t love him for who he is. Telling men that they are not and never will be affected by the glass situation is not applying the same empathic philosophy to HIS emotional needs. It goes both ways.
It was very poorly communicated. You validated all women but did not stick up for yourself. You not always putting your glass away doesn’t mean that you don’t respect your wife. It doesn’t mean that all of a sudden she can’t trust you or feel safe with you. It certainly doesn’t mean she quit loving you. Sounds like she’s anal, impossible to please, unwilling to compromise, had low self esteem, and can’t communicate effectively. If I were you I would thank her for leaving then go find you a real woman who is willing to deal with those little things. Each person in a relationship has at least one thing their partner does that irks them, but when you’re really in love, you look beyond those things, not directly at them. Grow a pair and stop trying to justify your ex’s reasoning for leaving you.
I’m not going to hedge every explanation for my role in the marriage ending with a “yeah, but” excuse about how I can justify it.
Do the right thing. Be a leader. Be unselfish. Be the example.
THEN leave them if they don’t hold up their end of the bargain.
But when you’re not giving everything, you have no right to point fingers.
That applies to, literally, every relationship at home, school, work, sports teams, social groups, etc.
OF COURSE I’m not fully responsible for everything.
Precisely ZERO good can come from blaming others for the bad things that happen to us.
I tried that. I dug deep, I did what she wanted so she wouldn’t be unhappy, I walked on eggshells around her feelings. And I got burned out until I snapped from the constant unacceptance and fight-picking and over-scrutinizing. The love was all used up and all that was left was picking up the shards of my self-esteem and rebuilding my self-worth.
Guys can think that we’re being 100% logical but we’re not. If we’re resisting the glass situation, we’re probably resisting it for an emotional reason, even if we’re not aware of it, like maybe we’re afraid of spending the rest of our life with an unreasonable unhappy person, or maybe it’s a bad childhood habit that’s difficult to undo, or maybe we’re just afraid that the most important person in our world (ie., our wife) doesn’t love us for who we are. If we want to be “grateful for another opportunity to demonstrate to my wife that she comes first”, we have to feel out WHY we were resisting in the first place. Because it probably ain’t for logical reasons.
You can give everything but sheer effort and willpower isn’t enough. Equally important is the clarity and wisdom to see that a relationship is a dance. Blaming and finger-pointing from either side kills the dance. So does trying to waltz when the other person is 3 steps behind and stepping on your toes.
This has amazing insight.
I do want you to know something: I read this because I had the thought that it would hit pretty close to home. I was medicated and went to therapy for several years following the birth of our children because of laundry on the floor/trash needing to go out/dishes in the sink. What I figured out was…I actually signed up for all that. I am a person who “takes care of stuff”. Besides working full-time, I paid all the bills, did all the laundry, cleaned the house, etc. when we got married and never asked him for help. He was the “man of the house” and I did “woman stuff”. When the girls came along, I got nutso because I couldn’t do it all alone AND take care of these two little people. Why did I have to be HIS mother too? I am tired when I get home from work too!
Maybe you see where I am going…
Anyway, we got better before it was too late, fortunately.
Great blog.
It’s not about the nail!!! Thank you! I have been trying to find an explanation. You have explained it beautifully and made me realize my part in this as well. I also need to look at things as he is not out to hurt me intentionally onr,at all. I have things I can let go of to please him… like my dislike of doing the dishes… I don’t like doing them because it makes me feel less than… but that’s my perception. He sees it, I think, as I respect him and what he provides me and the family.
Thanks so much!!!
Thank you for this humbling advice. The glass analogy and subsequent explanation is by far the most spot on, relationship saving, simplest advice I’ve ever read concerning emotional differences between men and women.
Oh Matt! Will she remarry the new enlightened you? What a great husband / partner you can be with this fantastic understanding of the underlying emotions we can’t even put into words ourselves.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Wow! This really hit home for me. Not that I’m going to leave my husband, but it made me realize that it’s not the glass by the dishwasher or the twist tie by the garbage—me-“why can’t you put it in the garbage? His do you think it gets there? The garbage fairy?” Him—” it wasn’t enough to bother bending over yet!” But you’re right! It makes me feel that he doesn’t care about me, doesn’t appreciate me. Thanks for pointing this out. I feel better about it just knowing that it has really nothing to do with his he feels about me and it’s really just that it doesn’t matter enough to him to bother bending over .
Cab you talk to my husband?
You sweet boy. I am so sorry you had to go through a divorce, but I am SO GLAD you managed to put this concept into words for me. I am going to get my husband to read it, and see if we can finally get this thing clear between us. You see, we have fought this same battle bitterly for over 30 years, raising 3 kids and actually divorcing for 8 years and remarrying because it just didn’t make sense to keep the family fractured. Finally, after all the warring, the heartache, and the time alone realizing divorce from this man was NOT what I really wanted, I began to slowly come to the same conclusions you laid out so well here. The perspective from a mans side. The fact he really, literally COULD NOT understand what I was saying no matter how many times I said it – because he doesn’t feel the way I do, see things the way I do, and just can’t imagine it from my point. Not from lack of love, simply from lack of perspective – it just does not compute – he can see no logic to it because his mind doesn’t work that way. I honestly believe the real key to a successful marriage is the understanding of the two perspectives you bring to light in your writing by BOTH SIDES – each making the effort to step outside what makes sense to them and embrace the others perspective, each making the commitment to do some bending, and some rethinking and making the effort to consciously remind themselves – ‘Hey, don’t jump to defensive conclusions here, remember this doesn’t look the same from that other side!’ Keep firmly in mind that the other persons perspective might seem alien to you but it is NOT WRONG, JUST DIFFERENT. Remember the difference, see the love, refuse the war.
Thanks again, for putting this into a great post. I hope you find a great new relationship, cause your going to make some girl really lucky. 😉
Wow this makes total sense and I have had this argument with my wife before (though it was over dirty socks in the living room).
I saw my parents marriage crumble because of things like this. It certainly wasn’t because my mom was the housekeeper/office manager for their business/children’s taxi service/chef supreme. No, it’s not like my did didn’t work his butt off either–he worked just as hard as she did, just in another realm They had had a few difficult years, actually, the family did (kids included), and I think ultimately what they needed from each other was: I hear you. I acknowledge your pain and frustration. I value you and the things you do to keep our household together. They both felt unappreciated by each other. My mom felt resentful, in part, because my dad never helped around the house (and when I say never I mean I don’t ever recall him cooking or cleaning doing laundry until they divorced. And I was 16 when that occurred). The other part had to do with my brother, but that’s a whole other story. My dad felt unappreciated because how could he be expected to do anything around the house (especially during the week) because he was working almost 20 hours a day at times doing the out-of-the office work for their business?
It’s been more than 20 years since they divorced and they’ve both remarried and I see in each of their marriages they way they have taken what they learned from their divorce and apply it to their current relationships. My dad does housework, cleaning, laundry, etc. my mom is much more understanding of my stepdad’s work and doesn’t become resentful when he’s worked 20 hour days and comes home and doesn’t do anything (but I sure part of that is because there’s not three kids to take care of). Overall, I see two people who I know still love each other but couldn’t communicate what each other needed. Part of that is because men and women communicate differently, and part of that is bcause the cracks in he marriage had grown so wide. And as a child of divorced parents, that’s the sucky part: it’s not like one of them was bat-*hit-crazy. They hit a rough patch and bailed on each other. As an adult I see both points of view, and they are both entirely valid.
So I guess my whole point to this was: value your partner and what they do. and if you can work it out, by all means, do it. Don’t be prideful when you can save a marriage. Either accept that your SO wants to only use one glass a day, or compromise, and put the damn glass in the dishwasher and just get it out each time you want a drink.
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I loved the article. From someone who has gone through this…I believe it is hard for wives to put into words how these types of things affect them. It was spot on.
Spot on!!! Thank you!
Enjoyed the read. Just experienced this feeling today.
I think your essay is brilliant. But is it perhaps less of a man/woman issue and more of a type A/type B issue? My husband is very particular, I am very easy going. This put a lot of things into perspective for me. Thanks!
It’s like this article was written about my life! (Except my fiancé isn’t this enlightened just yet). For all the men reading this and saying its bullshit: shut up. This article has articulated everything I’ve wanted to say but never had the tools to do about my fiancé not helping me with seemingly small tasks around the house. My fiancé has started to understand why I have pleaded and yelled and sobbed for him to just pick his clothes up or rinse a dish for what feels like the thousandth time. It’s important to me and if he can’t take a few seconds to do a simple task I feel like he doesn’t actually care about me or my time. I’ve worked two jobs and would still come home to see not one of the simple chores I’ve asked him to do done. And he was just doing school part time! Can you see why days, months, and years of that wears you down? Can you see why I would approach him about it not about to back down and have a fight result from it? Men and women need to step back and really look at their significant other to see why something is bothering them before it’s too late. To the man who wrote this article: THANK YOU SO MUCH. I’m sorry for what you had to go through to write this but women (and men) everywhere should be thanking you for finally shedding light on a topic that many just haven’t felt the need to publish.
Ho. Lee. Cow. You blew up the internet with a metaphor, Matt!
*high five!*
It hasn’t been very fun! And it seems poised to worsen before it gets better. Yeesh. Really nice to get a friendly and familiar comment. Thank you. 🙂
Oh wow…I see what you mean. Blech.
Please tell me you’re not gonna give this more stuff more of your attention than it deserves, ‘kay?
Happy Saturday 🙂
It’s impossible to not. Every new commenter needs approved. I don’t think it’s cool to let comments hang in limbo, even when they’re calling me a sackless fag.
Fun!
*sprays coffee on phone* Least you have an excuse…I keep coming back voluntarily…it’s like a car wreck…can’t…look…away…
I literally cried reading this. Thank you.
I only wish that the issues in my marriages (yes I tried twice) were glasses by the sink. No, I was foolish enough to marry completely self centered, misogynistic alcoholics. I believe that this was in part because my own childhood taught me nothing about what it means to have a loving relationship. Therefore how could I possibly identify what I had never seen.
My point is that the importance of modeling a loving, respectful adult relationsionship for your children can’t be overemphasized. Home is where we learn to relate with others, where our place is in the world, how we should expect to be treated, and how to treat others.
Unfortunately, I learned that I had ‘0’ importance or respect from men.
So I’m still learning, at 60 years of age. Sometimes I give up the idea of any love relationship. Other times itseems there could still be hope. You never know.
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Perfectly wrote! Thank you! Someone actually gets it! Coming from a divorced wife , married 13 years ! I have recently remarried and it’s all about readjusting to learn each other’s likes ,dislikes, and pet peeves! I don’t believe any marriage is perfect and we all have our faults . But learning to be open and truly listen to your spouse is a key to having a happy marriage for sure .
Or, I just learned how to pick my battles. Yes socks on the floor (right in front of the laundry bin) are infuriating! Just flip it in there! Especially when our dogs chew them and they could not from inside the bin. But still, quiet is worth more than thinking I will change that. This is the man I married.
He cooks most of the food and contributes in 1000 other ways. If he wants to buy new socks every other month, why do I care?
As someone who is about to get married, I appreciated the rawness of this post. Things aren’t always going to make sense, and that’s okay. I feel like what I got out of this was “err on the side of love.” Thanks for this!
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Truly, if she divorced you because you left dishes in the sink, there were deeper problems and that dirty glass was just another straw on the camel’s back. It isn’t about dishes but about respect, true, but it also points to a very controlling and/or intolerant wife. Look, marriage is the greatest opportunity to become a better person–for both partners. True, the husband could have become more respectful towards his wife’s desires; however, there was a lack of understanding about the husband on her part. His acts or lack of were not indications of his uncaring but they were signs of how he thinks (his priorities are just different.) There are big things and little things in marriage to contend with. Many wives would love to have to deal with those little things like a dirty glass rather than adultery or addiction. I happily pick up after my husband because I love him and it is a joy to care for him in every way. Yes, he’s busy with work (and I work, too). But he shows his love and caring for me in his own ways, too. Equal but different. We work our strengths and protect each other’s weaknesses. We slay the dragons that we’re better equipped to slay–for each other. I will not make him feel bad for being who he is. When I get down on myself for my weaknesses and flaws, he is the first to tell him that he loves me for the way I am and that the way I am is what makes me unique. So, if he leaves his dirty socks on the floor or dishes by the sink, I gratefully take care of it for him. He’s not doing it to annoy or disrespect me. He’s doing it because he’s concerned with too many other things. Lazy? Not at all. Distracted, tired? Yes. If I can handle a few things to make his life easier, I want to do it. Who the freak flips out over a dirty glass except for controlling, ungrateful people? We are so much more courteous to strangers than to our own spouses sometimes. Honestly, some people don’t deserve to be married.
OMG, YES!! It’s not about the fucking dishes!! This is precisely the anatomy of the end of my marriage. You get it, but he still does not, no matter how many time we “discussed” it.
Tears for the 20 “lost years,” sighs for the self-respect I bought back in the divorce. I had “water glass” issues too (and he had girlfriends on the side), and he didn’t/couldn’t care. Such a well-written blog — I think if he read it, he would finally get it, but now it’s way too late.
Yes. This. Exactly. I tried several different times to explain this to my EX- husband. We both worked outside the home, had kids, but he thought unless I TOLD him what to do it was ok not too. Thank you for finally articulating what I apparently was not able to. Fortunately he and I are friends now and happily remarried.
Great article!! It was never about the glass. The sooner we learn the nuances in how men think versus women, the sooner we can come to a happy medium!
I was surprised to see this really excellently written article a mere week after having a similar conversation with my husband about household responsibilities. I am very clear in telling him that I don’t want to feel like his mother, I want us to be partners. I want him to be a self-sufficient adult and not have to be told to do things. I don’t nag, I refuse to become that person because it is absolutely soul-sucking. When he leaves me to take care of running the household, tasks fall through the cracks because I can’t do it all on my own. Then he wants to know why stuff isn’t getting done or why I’m tired and stressed out all the time. I need more “help” than his usual washing dishes, cleaning the litter box and taking out the trash. I need to trust that he will pick up some of the slack and show me that he cares enough about my well-being to not add more burdens on my plate by requesting that I continually remind him to do things because he can’t be bothered to figure it out himself. Sometimes he’ll actually take it upon himself to clean the counters or sweep the floor, and one time I almost passed out when I saw that he’d cleaned the toilet. I always praise him for these “extra” efforts hoping that positive reinforcement will help drive my points home, but these initiatives he takes are very few and far between. If he could be like this more often then I wouldn’t have to feel like his mother, which is decidedly NOT sexy at all.
Of course, no matter how direct I am in communicating all of that, he still sees it as an argument about chores and therefore not a big deal. I’m not planning a divorce over this, but it is really depressing to think about another 60+ years of dealing with this.
Communication & respect are important in a marriage, but being able to accept & live with our differences & appreciate what 2 people bring to the table is also important. My ex & I grew apart after many years of marriage & dealing with life’s stressors, infertility, death of family members, etc.. He met someone online while we were still married. I was so angry at him for his infidelity & leaving me for the other woman. In time, I looked at the mistakes that we both made that impacted our marriage ending. It’s often not one big thing, but many small moments that get swept under the rug & not discussed that cause marriages to fail.
OMG shut up! LOL j/k
We don’t have a dishwasher, but, we have “dishwasher” moments. Your blog brought some clarity to my 45 year marriage (I am a slow learner, sometimes). When I am losing my cool over the (insert petty annoyance); my hubby doesn’t have a clue of why it matters to me; but his reaction is usually to take the garbage or recycles out, shred some old junk mail, sweep the garage floor, etc. Reading your blog makes me realize he is just trying to do something to make me happy and I understand that he still loves me enough to try. Thanks.
Nice! 🙂
So very true. Nice to see a man explain what I have tried to, many times. It’s not about the Glass. Blessings, Kathleen
This was great! Funny thing is, the roles are reversed in my relationship. My boyfriend is the neat freak/OCD cleaner/organizer. I am on the opposite end of that spectrum. This situation with the glass happens with us as well as many others. I have reacted the same way as you have but will really have to take these situations & change my perspective about them!! Thank you!
But don’t ruin yourself over it! A “neat freak/OCD cleaner/organizer”?? A “nut” maybe?
Kristen…your boyfriend has mental issues that will probably drive you apart as in when you have kids and he becomes irate that their toys are everywhere. Life is stressful enough w/o adding that kind of pressure to yourself or your future kids and making them have mental issues…
Kristen, I’m in the same situation, and this article affected me as well. To counter the other comments: my husband and I have two children. His mental health issues have never prevented him from being a wonderful father and supportive partner. Shame on the other commenters for implying as much.
People should pick up after themselves. This is not a “mysterious” expectation, nor is it an “emotional” issue. It’s just common sense. People should be responsible for their own messes. The only people who don’t always understand this is kids. Some men (and I do say only SOME men, because, luckily, I have a grown-up for a husband), some men claim they don’t understand why this is such a big deal, and say that they don’t care about such “pettiness,” but that’s because they know that if they just leave the mess long enough, somebody else will clean it up. Behind this decision are two assumptions: 1. This is too demeaning for me but not for my wife. 2. My time is worth more than her time. These are both disrespectful and yes, unloving positions. Now, the wife is trapped. If she asks him to help, she’s nagging. If she doesn’t, he can protest that he’s not a “mind-reader.” If she gets upset, she’s being he “emotional.” That old saw. If she lets it go in order to keep the peace, then he’ll just keep leaving his messes around the house and expecting his wife/maid to clean up after him. So yes, this ends up being about emotion, but initially, the issue is quite logical: If you make the mess, you clean it up. And you do this, not because you want to make your wife’s little heart happy, but because it’s the fair thing to do, it’s the responsible thing to do, it’s the adult thing to do, and it’s just plain common sense.
“Picking up” after oneself and cleaning up ones own messes is one thing BUT leaving a cup in the sink is not a mess and, as it was left in the sink, WAS obviously picked up. It was stated that often a cup may be reused before the dishwasher is run at the end of the day. BRAVO! Our nation has become a nation of wasteful resource users. If a person can’t daily see the value of reusing a cup throughout the day, and leaving it the sink (or on the counter, heaven forbid) then THEY are nutty one!!
Good point, Christopher. We do waste too much water, and if you’re going to use the glass again, you might as well just leave it by the sink. But It seemed to me that this was not just about one glass; the glass incident was probably the “straw that broke the camel’s back,” and we’re not privy to the other incidents that made up the whole story. I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that this was part of a pattern. The title of the story, I assumed, was an exaggeration, to get us to read it. The whole story had to be about more than one glass one time. Of course, that is just my assumption, and perhaps I should follow that time-honored edict, “Never assume.”
I’d like to challenge the assumption that putting the cup in the dishwasher as requested somehow makes it inaccessible for the rest of the day. If you can get a new, clean glass out of the cabinet, you can certainly get the used cup out of the dishwasher, right? You’ve set up a false dichotomy.
Be honest, in that situation how many times is the cup left forgotten at the bottom of or next to the sink at the end of the day. If you never go back for another drink from the cup, do you ever stop to think “Hey, I should go take care of that cup from 4 hours ago!” But if you truly care about saving resources, you can have a place where your day’s cup goes that’s not out and about until the end of the day. Or you can fetch it from the dishwasher if you want to reuse it and everyone wins.
This article is about more than a cup by the sink, and could be about anything that couples fight over. You’re displaying the point perfectly well by refusing to see beyond you “being right” and on to how your actions impact those you care about. The author never once indicates that he thought he was wrong in why he shouldn’t put the cup up, but acknowledges that had he realized why it meant so much to his wife, he might have re-evaluated his priorities.
You are over simplifying it. I dont think you got the message at all. He used the example of the glass which doesnt seem like much of a mess but, he is probably just trying not to make it seem as bad as it probably was. If it was just a glass and he actually cleaned up after when he was done and she never had to see the mess pile up but I highly doubt this was the case. Usually, when we start getting annoyed is when there is a glass, ok fine. The next day the glass is still there and since it was dirty with dryed out orange juice now there is another glass. You might just wash them at first, it slightly bugs you but its not a big deal. Later, after you washed the glasses theres the glass just sitting there again. You tell your partner “hey Id appreciate it if you washed your glass after you used it instead of leaving it on the counter” and they say “I’ll do it later, Im not done with it” or whatever excuse not to wash it when you asked. You think ok but you come back half hour later and its still there. “You havent finished with that glass? Didnt you hear me when I asked you to wash it and put it away?” he says “Jeez whats the big deal? Its just a glass. I’ll get to it when I get to it” You then procede to bug inside but figure its not worth it. He already knows it bothers you and if he cared at all he will wash the glass next time, right? Nope. Next time he leaves the glass. You dont want to nag, he already knows it bothers you. He will do it without you asking, of course he will. You dont have to do it for him, he wouldnt expect that from you all the time, he respects you as his partner not his mother… You leave the glass, you dont say anything. The glass stays there. You dont only stop picking up his glass, you stop picking up after him altogether even though you probably usually pick up the living room after game night or the kitchen after dinner. You are upset and want to prove a point to him and yourself. The mess piles and he doesnt lift a finger to help. You both know that its not because he is ignorant to how you feel about this cause you already told him. Its just unbelievable and you end up picking everything up fuming and fealing disrespected, ignored, unloved. He walks in and you start telling him off about the glass with tears in your eyes and explaining what it meant to you and what you now realise he feels about you. He says your overreacting about something thats not a big deal. It was just a glass! You start pointing everything else he casually ignores to help around with in the house and say that its not that you want him to do it, youre happy to do it but you specifcally told him to do one thing and he ignored you and its obvious he doesnt care about you. He tries to make you see “reason” and makes you feel like you are just crazy and dont appreciate all the other things he does. You feel he obviously doesnt appreciate what YOU do, if not he wouldnt want to make things harder for you and you would have felt appreciated if he just would have helped doing that one tiny thing you asked! He couldnt put away his own glass?! Much less take initiative to help in other areas!!! Its obviously not about the glass anymore anyway!!!!
Perfectly said, Marjorie Drysdale! The point that you are missing, Christopher R. Grove, is that this is normally a much bigger issue than “one cup.” It’s one cup by the sink, one open drawer in the bedroom, one pair of used pants on the bathroom floor, one gum wrapper on the table by the front door. I am a mother of 5 children, and I don’t want to mother my husband. My husband despises having a dirty house, but somehow doesn’t equate that each little thing that he leaves undone is a little part of the equation. And since I do the lion’s share of the housework (as statistically, do most women) it is very disrespectful to me that he leaves his stuff everywhere, and then has the nerve to complain that our house is messy. Sometimes our house is perfectly clean, thanks to hours and hours of my hard work, and he leaves a glass beside the sink. So yeah, it pisses me off, because I know that it’s just the starting point to him leaving a trail of “mess” behind him in every room of our house. When I leave things out, I have to put them away myself, because I’m an adult. My expectations are pretty simple; that he too, should act like an adult.
Seriously? You don’t really think it’s just about the cup in the sink. The person leaving the cup in the sink is certainly showing the same behavior all over the house with all kinds of other items. The cup in the sink is only meant to be an example. You must have a very bad attitude about women if you’d actually think that one would throw away a whole relationship for such a small issue
If using the dishwasher, it doesn’t make any difference if you’re washing 1 glass or 8. Also, you don’t have to understand – if your spouse doesn’t like it, then they don’t like it. Not everything is subject to logic. “Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?”
It’s also broader than housework or gender. If you go to your partner and say “This is a thing that is important to me, and I want to talk about it,” and your partner responds with something like:
“I won’t do your thing, you’re wrong, your thing is stupid, and only and emotional and irrational would give a shit about a thing that stupid,” well, it’s hard to believe that your partner cares about you, isn’t it? It sounds like they don’t only think badly of your thing, but they think badly of you.
(I’m not saying that Matt said most of these things outright – he seems to think that he implied some of these things, and others are drawn from other commenters.)
Little things are important – mostl because they’re part of communication, and communication is huge. That all being said, while I personally believe that any adult should be able to clean up after themselves, differences in neatness standards exist. They are hard to work around – I’m more of a neat freak that pretty much anyone I’ve lived with – but there are ways. Hiring cleaning help is high on my list. So are clear boundaries and picking your battles.
Catherine..taking your first paragraph…it’s my opinion that this woman doesn’t want this man anymore.
If the woman was bonkers for the man (as it should be both ways) – the mind would already be too full with thoughts of the other to even feel the discontent let alone want to talk about it.
Same is true for the guy..he wouldn’t be giving the woman anything to want to talk about if she was on his mind as she should be.
Exactly!!! 100 times this!!!! It’s about respect. We dont want to feel like we are their mother having to tell them to do things they should know they are supposed to do. We dont want to be picking up after them all the time for the sake of not “nagging” them either. And if we dont tell them and if we dont pick it up, the mess just keeps piling up. We cant win! The only way we win is when they grow up and realise they have to pull their weight, that things dont magically rearrange themselves or put themselves in order. If they can’t understand that, they simply dont respect you as a person they share their life and home with.
In my experience, this only happens with kids of SAHMs. Many (though not all) got used to the idea that food magically cooked itself, messes magically cleaned themselves up, etc…and grew up not valuing the effort that went into that “invisible” work. My ex was definitely like that. My current partner of ten years grew up an independent “latchkey” kid of a working single mother who was expected to run the house and cook, clean, take after his little brother and handle errands while mom was at work. Interestingly, he has never once expected messes to just magically “go away” with no effort! I can’t even begin to say how wonderful it is to live with a truly equal partner.
This is a very self-centered perspective above. I also leave dirty dishes by the sink, but there’s no deeper meaning than this: Why take 4 seconds to put one dish away every hour when I can take 12 seconds to put 6 dishes away at the end of the night? Maybe the math isn’t stellar, but I think many men could agree that it’s more efficient to get all your targets lined up and tear through a nice, big job! Anyway, as the one who does dishes in my household, I’ve never once felt insulted, disrespected, or as if my wife and kids don’t love me. They’re just frickin dishes, for Pete’s sake. When my spidey sense tells me that there’s a full load scattered around, I go into hunting mode, see how many I can carry at once, and then proceed to stack them in a glorious work of ceramic architecture.
Thank God my wife makes a bit of effort to understand MY thought process, because for a woman to dismiss a man’s behavior as childish or disrespectful on such an issue is as bad as a man dismissing a woman as overdramatic and hypersensitive. It’s like a fish hating a cat for breathing air and the cat hating the fish for living in water.
Understanding is a two-way street.
It’s not about being efficient, or who is right.
She wanted something, and he deliberately denied it her, even though it was four seconds at a time out of his day. That four seconds was too much for him to give her.
Now he’s not married. Seems like that four seconds, no matter what it was comprised of, could’ve been spent better.
Thank you SOOO much for your wise words. The man who wrote the article thinks he’s understanding but his words compared to yours, show that he’s still not getting it. He is still being condescending. He wouldn’t use the same language with male coworkers whom he considers his equals. There is still a hint of a double standard there.
I’m totally giving you the Tommy Lee Jones face right now. Or, this emoji: ?
I have a hundred guys calling me a sackless fag woman for writing this, and you think I’m somehow demonstrating male chauvinism?
I must have really nailed this one. 😉
I love this lol. Even in the end, women STILL need more. Matt, you might want to get that soul ready, buddy. You had your heart broken, so you tried to rationalize it- even though it took mental… fucking… hula hoops, you did it. Welcome to feminism 102: Why men are still pieces of garbage even if they completely agree with every aspect of any argument a woman presents.
My comment was supposed to be about what Marjorie said. didn’t realize that if I took too long, it would show up after someone else’s comment
Seriously Matt, don’t sweat the negative comments. Some will get it and some will disagree because they can. This is a great article but I’m not sure I would share it with my husband. I could see his hackles going up just like some of your commenters. Maybe he will see it on Facebook and reflect. I thank you for that.
Well said Marjorie. Too bad common sense doesn’t grow on trees.
My solution is drink from the facet. Believe me, you cannot correct every annoyance that she has with you. Maybe, it would be best for your wife to understand that she , along with most modern females, to expect everything to go their way? Reminds of a grown female child who is pitching a tantrum to selfishly please herself. Maybe she could take her glass and go home, since the game is not pleasing to her standards.
Reread the article. She did take her glass and go home. You totally missed the point of thevarticke.
Nope. I think the girls here are missing the point. You can’t throw temper tantrums because things don’t go your way. Life commitments shouldn’t be broken over a fucking glass in the sink. That’s how children work: something small (fucking tiny) is enough to ruin their entire world. The only reason he’s conceding is because his heart is broken and he’s put in all the Nobel prize winning research to figure it out.
Don’t pretend I’m not right here, Wayne.
My heart WAS broken. This was like three years ago. I’m totally cool. I’m trying to help people stay married.
You’re totally not helping. 🙂
No dude. I can’t accept the premise. I wish I could talk to you in real life and genuinely tell you that life… and relationships are about compromises. That no one stays married for 40 years (as my parents and my grandparents have) without finding at least one or two things they flat out HATE that their partner does, to love. But that’ll never happen.
Have you noticed the amount of WORK men are doing to rationalize how you came to this conclusion? Or that all the women here are effortlessly either agreeing, or asking for more? When these people meet, and have a relationships with one another, the idea isn’t for the man to give in on every issue- but for there to be a balance of compromises and fights to continue compromising. Forever. Because you love that person that much, that even though you hate something about them- you don’t hate them for it.
Sorry I can’t agree with this article at all. And it sounds like it was a very one-sided relationship. With her complaining about all her wants and not worrying about yours in the least. A relationship is suppose to be about much more than cleanliness, and dishes, and crap like that… 3rd wave feminism has really put the wrong kind of bug in womens ear. As if their husbands are suppose to work 40+ hours a week and come home and have to handle everything else, too. I’ve witnessed this first hand. It’s atrocious! I realize being a SAHM is quite a job but it’s not the same thing as slaving away at a factory or an office or even retail. Under the assumption that you were the bread winner… Your needs should have come first and she should have cleaned that damn dish herself.
I use women in this example because this is what your article is about. If the tables were turned and you were a SAHD I’d be blessing you out, too.
However, you assume a couple things not stated in the post. One you assume she didn’t care about his needs and two that she does not work. Also, cleaning up after yourself does not equate to “doing everything else”.
You obviously are inexperienced and dont know what you are talking about. How the hell do you know she was a sahm and he slaved away in a factory? This sort of thing happens in all kinds of relationships where one partner doesnt value the other or their time and feelings. Growing up, I watched my mother come home from work, do all the housework and take care of me and my sister while my dad coming home only one or too hrs after my mom came out of work sat down on the couch, claimed the tv and waited for dinner. After my mom served us dinner she bathed, got dressed, gathered her books and went to school. My dad hardly helped around the house. He wasnt messy, he was actually quite neet with his own things but, you think he helped with the other things that happen to pile up like dust or natural grime? You think he helped with me and my sister? My mom would come home exhausted and my parent would end up arguing in the weekends about the dirt and grime and mess piling up, my mom claimed he should help more, he thought he did plenty. In my situation, I have a guy that while he is great and not cold and emotionally abusive or sexist like my father, he is messy and we often have the same argument where he should pick up after himself. I work while he studies and I take up most of the house work since his studies are more demanding than my job. Im happy to do this but, I expect him to be considerate and not add to my plate. Its frustrating when they undermine your efforts to keep a clean, organised home and claim its no big deal when it clearly is to you. One little thing can add up to hours of cleaning and when you tell them, try to explain and they still dont think it matters it makes you believe they dont respect you or your time, energy, effort or feelings.
A selfish tyrant always demands
Reblogged this on YOURS IN STORYTELLING… and commented:
Okay – so I often do the dishes without being told. I do sometimes leave a dish or two somewhere where I ought not to with the promise to myself (that I generally keep) that I will grab those dishes up when I am filling the dishwasher. I do always ask my wife if there is ANYTHING I can pick up for her to make her day easier when I am going to the mall. Actually, just yesterday I took my fifteen dollar gift card that I was given as a Christmas and bought a cheap Chilean red wine which my wife loves and a bottle of banana bread beer, which I love.
I’m not too big on bed making though. Heck, I’m just going to sleep in it and mess it up again…
🙂
You sound very reasonable!
Man you are broken. Why do men have to change for women all the time? Why is it always our fault? Guess what…it’s not. You didn’t get divorced bc you left cups by the sink. You got divorced bc your ex was OCD and controlling, not to mention uptight and unable to compromise. There’s so many things wrong with this article. Thank her for leaving you and go find someone who is reasonable enough not to let the small stuff overshadow true love. Oh, and grow a pair. If I was constantly getting nagged for leaving a cup by the sink to reuse, I’d show her the door.
Well maybe when you are out of middle school, you can certainly show all the ladies who is boss!
I loved this Basically the same thing happened to us over my husband leaving toothpicks every where! We were separated for 4 months Eventually worked it out
So, did you use the elastic band device or did you just snip them off??
I don’t think they were ever there. Based on his other articles I believe that he actually is a woman.
C’mon now.
I am a wife. You are a genius
This is so spot-on. I’m going to try and get my husband to read it. I hope he takes it to heart.
Hi Matt, I read your article, and while I agree with most of it, there is 1 issue that I cannot accept.
“I don’t have to understand WHY she cares so much about that stupid glass.
I just have to understand and respect that she DOES. Then caring about her = putting glass in dishwasher.”
This is a dangerous train of thought, because it basically says that logic does not apply, and that her way should be followed or she is being disrespected. How do you determine if her way is right or best if it cannot be rationalized? The alternative is to use feelings instead of logic, and even Hitler was doing what he “felt” was best.
If she has a view that eating meat is murder and you work at a hamburger joint, would you quit your job if she wanted you to? If you decline, are you “disrespecting” her according to this principle? Because she feels it is wrong, and you are doing something that goes against her standards.
This is why it is so dangerous. It is essentially letting people think that their opinion is THE way, and that others should follow it regardless of what their own values are. It is the same argument when Vegans get offended when people eat meat in their presence. It is the same argument when Westboro Church members get offended at LGBT’s in public.
You give several examples:
“Caring about her = keeping your laundry off the floor.
Caring about her = thoughtfully not tracking dirt or whatever on the floor she worked hard to clean.
Caring about her = taking care of kid-related things so she can just chill out for a little bit and not worry about anything.
Caring about her = “Hey babe. Is there anything I can do today or pick up on my way home that will make your day better?”
Caring about her = a million little things that say “I love you” more than speaking the words ever can.”
Problem is, you can put anything in there and equate it to “Caring about her”. If she truly believes in this, anything you do that differs from her view can be justified as “not caring about her” regardless of whether deliberate or accidental. As another individual human, there are bound to be one or ten thousand different instances where my actions are at odds with her values. Standards such as tidiness, hygiene, driving, budgeting, etc are all relative, what makes her standards better or worse than mine if it isn’t rationalized? I don’t agree that simply because she is the female in the relationship that her view is automatically given priority.
Relationships are 2 way, that’s what makes it difficult. Often, either both sides remain the same, or only 1 changes to be accommodating. The truth is, both sides have to communicate and compromise to work out a balance. I still believe in working it out logically, and both sides should try to agree on terms based on logic.
Anyways, just my 2 cents on this.
Perfect answer!
I agree. I hope this isn’t about doing something your wife wants you to do in order to make her happy. That does open a can of worms! What if it makes her happy for you never to watch a ball game? Yikes. (Sorry if I’m using a stereotype). Anyway, to me, this specific issue starts out simply—-should one do a fair share of the work load? Then it becomes a communication issue and then it becomes an emotional issue. Maybe the solution for this couple would have been to sit down and agree on a division of labor where he never had to deal with the dishes and in return did something she never wanted to do, like, say, take out the garbage. Some couples need to do this, and it makes for a more harmonious marriage. I have some friends who have done just this. My marriage is a little more lossey-goosey; if we see dishes that need to be done (we don’t have a dishwasher), one or the other of us will simply do them. End of problem. Other things are divided more traditionally—-he does the wood chopping, hauling and piling; I do most of the laundry and cooking. Works for us, and this arrangement just evolved over time. Maybe this couple needed a more specific arrangement to be delineated from the get-go. I don’t know. Great discussion, though, and I love how respectfully most of the readers have been in their responses to one another.
It’s good to see not everyone has turned into a logic abandoning cuck.
There are key differences between the examples that you listed that the author provided versus the ones that you came up for on your own. The author’s “Caring about her = ” are all things that are husbands cleaning up or preventing messes that they cause, while your examples are all about husbands going out of their way to make life better for their spouse, which is definitely nice on occasion but it isn’t a requirement. Except for the kid-related thing, this is not the woman’s job when both parents work full time. The husband shouldn’t take care of all kid-related things, and neither should the wife.
I do believe that it is fair for the husband to ask why it is important to her, but just because it doesn’t seem logical to you doesn’t mean it’s not logical to her. It’s extremely narcissistic to think that just because you don’t clearly see or understand the links that they don’t exist or they are unsubstantial. That is if you consider your wife an intelligent human being. I understand that my husband and I don’t agree on everything, but we acknowledge that both of our beliefs are reasonable because we are both two very rational people. Sometimes we do things his way because it’s something that he has more experience with or that he cares more about and feels more strongly towards, and sometimes we do things my way because of the same reasons. It ends up being an even push/pull, which is possible because we discuss when things bother us.
I believe that it is more about priority setting than logic. I put having a clean organized house on a higher priority level than my husband. That is because my stress levels rise when things get out of control (a few things out of place don’t bother me, but when it’s a week worth of things piled up, it really bothers me). Believe me, I do not wish to feel this way, but either it happens either intrinsically or I’ve been societally trained to feel that way and can’t help it. Also, I work under the assumption that things that are “out” will eventually be put up, so putting it up sooner as opposed to later doesn’t waste any time or energy. You might take something out and put it back a few more times than otherwise, but I believe this little waste of energy/time is worth not feeling stressed and having the satisfaction of being in a place where things feel put together. I have the time to pick up after myself, but I don’t have the time to pick up after myself AND my husband.
This all seems perfectly logically to me. And even if you explain in great detail why it’s not, it’s not going to magic the feelings of stress and anxiety away when the house is a wreck.
So even if you “win” the logic battle and do as you please, is that win really worth the pain you put someone else through because they don’t agree with you?
So basically women are just fragile, emotional, irrational creatures who we should never expect to see reason, and we should give in to their ridiculous demands at every chance so their barely held-together psyche doesn’t mistake us for someone that doesn’t care. Gotcha.
This is one of the most demeaning, anti-feminist things I’ve read in a long time. Men are just as capable of being petty and women are just as capable of being reasonable. In any decent relationship BOTH parties have to concede about things that they don’t personally care about but make their partner happy.
Well put
Don’t get married. Simple. Then they have no power over you and can’t no fault divorce you and take everything you’ve earned. MGTOW ftw
I’m fully supportive of this position.
I’m not a “Get married” advocate.
I’m a “Stay married” advocate.
While I think it’s super-impractical from a companionship standpoint to not pair up (especially for when we’re old and need assistance and are less mobile).
Otherwise, your Don’t Get Married advice WILL prevent divorce.
Thanks for reading.
I will ask my husband to read this article. He is a wonderful human being. We have this same argument over clothes hanging on the closet door and any other surface in his path. I work in a very chaotic environment and like to come home to some type of order. It makes me feel more relaxed. Everything you said about what I feel when he refuses to hang up his clothes is so true. It really is about respecting the one you love’s feelings and opinions even if you don’t agree or it does not make sense to you. Looks like you have figured some things out! Great article! If you are driving on a curvy mountain road in Colorado with your wife and she clearly is having anxiety and asks you to slow down, do you? If you don’t then she is hearing you say, “he doesn’t care that I am frightened.” Unreasonable? Maybe, but is it that important to hurt her by not slowing down? It doesn’t make you (meaning any man) less of a man, but a hero in her eyes. Such a simple thing……same as the glass, just put it in the dishwasher.
“Respecting the one you love’s feelings and opinions even if you don’t agree or it does not make sense to you” is one thing, but fretting over a cup that is to be reused during the day just because she is an OCD nut is another.
Im curious if your husband may simply be tired, worn-out, depressed and frustrated and that is why he hangs his clothes on the doorknob. That’s a classic sign.
I get very irritated when my kids or husband leaves a glass near the sink. And I have a perfectly logical reason for why.
We have two cats under one year old. They’re assholes, and have broken three cups and 2 bowls because people left them on the counter near the sink.
Despite making it very clear WHY these things cannot be left on the side of the sink, all three of the other humans in the house continue to do so – though my six year old son is making great progress in remembering to put stuff in the sink.
My husband’s way of dealing with it was to buy more plastic cups – which the cats have still managed to crack.
Now is this a marriage ending thing? Hell no. Is it aggravating as hell? Yes.
No, he is perfectly healthy and once again it is not about the cup or glass. It is about showing respect and love to your partner. The little things are what turn into the big things.
And I believe using words like OCD nut and nutty is part of Matt’s point. Very degrading, hurtful and direspectful.
“Men” invented everything? Maybe you should revisit actual history and how many women contributors there are to science and mechanics. I stopped reading exactly at that point, since it was clear inherent bias was the main meat of this.
I invite you to try to power through it again and see whether there was any mention of men inventing “everything.”
I’ll spell it out for you since you picked out the most irrelevant paragraph imaginable to get offended by.
Premise: Men are capable beings. Therefore, men can also be expected to learn best marital practices and perform them successfully.
But hey. Nice try making it about chauvinism.
The husband could be the type of guy that literally does 1000 other things FOR his wife as shows of love and respect and she will still focus on that one thing while pretty much dismissing or not recognizing the 1000 other things.
Men WILL and DO think that one could say just put the glass away and end of story but then it’s another thing and another because the glass is is just another thing forgotten or not recognized. Or the wife could just say it’s just a glass by the sink, it pales in comparison to the 1000 other things my husband has done and just let it go in which SHE shows love and respect to her man by recognizing and taking into consideration everything else.
My opinion is a successful relationship will meet in the middle and communicate the underlying thoughts rationally rather than the obvious ones emotionally.
Your first sentence hit the nail on the head. You can do 1000 things that you wouldn’t normally worry about out of respect for your wife but she will find that one thing you didn’t do and hold on to that for days, without making any mention of all the other things you do to make her life easier.
It really does feel like this sometimes.
Which is why I think this “glass by the sink” metaphor is so important.
It’s not about the chore. It’s about HOW SHE FEELS as a result of our choices. Make her feel safe and secure. Make her feel unquestionably loved.
How will you know? In return, you will NEVER feel like she’s being ungrateful because she will not get on you about “little things.”
Then she respects you. And you feel it. And she WANTS you. And you feel it.
All this man vs. woman stuff vanishes like magic when you just give enough.
Spot on … The men “complaining” about your article are the ones not willing to take the 4 seconds to love their wife.
My husband and I are in counseling where we share our “complaints” regarding one another so the counselor can get a perspective of why we argue so much.
My husband brought up a complaint he had about a complaint I had regarding a blue tote (the glass by the sink) … I actually was glad he did.
He began by saying that I criticize (his go to word) him for the smallest things … he sells on e bay and puts his packages in a tote, on the front porch, for the mailman to pick up. He was using a very bright and noticeable blue tote and it was often left there all day … everyday. It personally, bothered me to have a tote sit there … It didn’t “belong”. I took his need for the tote into consideration and asked myself what really bothered me about the tote? The color! I approached him “hey hon, that blue tote kinda “sticks out” on the porch, I have a black tote you can use that won’t look so “eye-catching”.” His reply was pleasing “yeah, good idea … the blue is a bit of an “eyesore”…” The problem … I hated the ugly blue tote and I didn’t want a tote there at all; he needed it there but never remembered to bring it in after the morning mail pick up. I figured our chat ended in a win-win … He got to leave black tote there and I could “deal” with that. Problem solved … so I thought. The next morning, on my way to work, I drive past our porch and there it was … the blue tote. When I got home, I asked him “did you find the black tote because I see the blue one is still there …” “Oh yes! Sorry, I just forgot to use that one … I’ll get the black one.” Ok? But ok … no problem … next time. Well, next time came and I drove by our house and … Yep, there it was … the blue tote … again. This time I didn’t wait until I got home to confront him. I voice texted “(his name) the blue tote again?” This time his response wasn’t so pleasing … He fired back at me with things like “what’s the big deal?!” And so on … It ended in a huge argument and me not talking to him for days. Which brought us to the discussion in counseling.
He explained the situation to our couselor with the “what’s the big deal?!” attitude and I let him. When he finished his complaint, I looked at our counselor and simply said “it’s not about the blue tote…”. The couselor nodded his head, agreeing and said ” it’s about him not following through …”. My heart was mended by a male (our couselor) confirmation that I’m not the “crazy wife” (woman) my husband describes me to be. My husband sat there like a deer in headlights. I looked at him and explained “we discussed something and came to an agreement … You didn’t follow through. I felt disrespected … like I don’t matter. THAT is a behavior issue, not a blue tote issue.”
We are still going to counseling … my husband has acknowledged that he is selfish and does not put others (me) before himself … unintentionally and most of the time unadmittingly. My husband is a good man. I chose counseling because of the blue tote …
It is “working” between us because he is willing to get to know his wife and her motives …
“The men “complaining” about your article are the ones not willing to take the 4 seconds to love their wife.”
BULL FUCKING SHIT! Almost all of the complaints show a concern for meeting in the middle but are peeved that this man has been steamrolled by an OCD basket case!
What I read from your long diatribe is that YOU DIDN’T FIX YOUR PROBLEM! You expected him to fix your problem! Did YOU go and pull the black tote out and change them? No!
THAT right there is your marital problem.
So… despite him agreeing to change something, and her agreeing to not throw a fit about the tote being out… again… you’re saying she should have just gone and fixed it.
What… is her husband six?
Would he be able to do that shit at a job and not expect a talking to? Attention to detail is important. In the military if you start your day with a scuffed boot (back in boot shining days anyways) you were going to get your butt handed to you. If you didn’t put a tool back in the right place while working flightline, even if nothing bad happened, you were gonna get your butt handed to you.
So why is it so hard to imagine that the wife would be pissed about having to come in behind him after the agreement had been reached?
It is a respect thing. And I got taught that by men. In the military. The attention to detail is about respecting things – your house, yourself, and the people around you.
I like how you put this glass/tote into perspective. You’re conclusion in being able to explain why it bothered you (he doesn’t follow through) is a good way to bring up a way to explain your feelings were not about the tote.
I think the main take away is that husbands and wives need to learn to voice what it is about the insignificant oversight that really bothers them.
This bizarre video help put it into perspective:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
It really isn’t about the cup/tote/nail is simply wanting to be heard.
Haha!! I LOVE that video. Thanks.
What a terrible waste of marital resources. Two people having to independently come up with different paths to the same goal, managing a household?
“She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.”
Or, and maybe I’m the crazy one here, maybe two adults talk to each other about what needs to be done, and come up with a plan to accomplish those necessities. You know, instead of having the expectation that your spouse is a mind reader, or knows all the same things as you, or is another version of you.
Any two people approach life and living in distinct ways. Requiring that one have the same knowledge base and expectations as the other does is ridiculous and absurd. And getting angry about an unspoken expectation going unfulfilled… that’s verging on narcissism.
You dont make sense? Its like you are trying to say men dont have the same mental capacity for figuring things out that women do. We, as adults should know that certain things have to be done to mantain order in different situations. If you have a home, you should know, being an adult and not a child, that you need to maintain it and the things that have to be done to do so. Why is it that your spouse can figure it out without being told and you cant. On top of that, she didnt get upset cause he didnt inherently know that the glass doesnt put itself away and he cant just leave dirty glasses on the counter. She explicitly told him and comunicated with him about it and he chose to ignore it. Only an idiot would then claim next tim,e when she get upset aout the glass, that he isnt a mind reader and didnt know he was supposed to put the glass away. Do your empoyers at work have to tell you everyday how to do your job? Do people have to remind you everyday to shower and put clothes on? Or are these thing you were told once or twice and you figure out you gotta do them. And even if you werent told explicitly, isnt there plenty aspect in life you just figured out you had to do on your own? Or did your mommy have to guide you through every single thing? Doesnt matter. Your spouse is not your mommy.
This article isn’t about the “dish”. It’s about feeling loved, respected, and “safe”. If you feel validated in your relationship, you wouldn’t care about the dish. And it works both ways, not just for the woman. When you know what your partner likes and expects and you don’t deliver, you are saying, “I don’t care about your feelings”. That’s it. That’s all there is…
Reblogged this on jisbell22 and commented:
Great thoughts worth reading.
submissive man
You wish. Pragmatic, kid.
I’m a married man and no girl has ever left me. So shut up, you’d have a lot to learn from, KID.
Neat.
BTW I’m also much older than you (getting to 50) and with undoubtedly FAR more experience with woman than you can dream of.
In all seriousness, I’m glad you’re married. I have no doubt you have many great qualities, even if effective communication with the written word isn’t one of them.
I didn’t mean “kid” as an insult. It’s a word I just say a lot when I’m talking to people. I call the old checkout lady at the story “young lady.”
I’m simply saying I’m pretty smart. I know why my divorce happened. I’m tying to help other guys like me (you’re clearly not one of them) see what happened to me so they can avoid some of the same missteps or maybe have good conversations with their partner.
Don’t read one thing I’ve written and tell me why my nine-year marriage ended.
No matter how much I can learn from you, you’ll continue to be wrong and out of line each time.
I do appreciate you commenting. I’m not used to a hundred people disagreeing with me.
It’s not that fun, but I appreciate you tuning in no matter how much you disagree with this stuff.
Yep. No sack.
What a great way to completely disregard the opinion of someone – and also manage to try to convince others to do the same.
It does show a disturbing lack of intelligence though. You might want to change how you do it.
I think it takes more ‘balls’ to be willing to work with someone even when you think it’s stupid. I think it takes more strength of character to admit you might have done something wrong, and to own your life.
To admit that other people’s opinions and feelings might actually be important enough to compromise over.
But hey – it’s not like Divorce is a horribly expensive event in life, right?
This reminds me of the movie “the breakup” where Jennifer Aniston asks Vince vahn to WANT to help her with the dishes. In which he curtly replies, “why would I want to help you with the dishes?!?” It’s not the actual act of doing the dishes, it’s the respect and effort to show that he cares about her.
As a woman, I realised that I need to not make it about the cup on the counter. Its not a personal attack. He simply doesn’t think that way. This type of thinking doesn’t come naturally (it’s actually surprisingly hard!) and I do have to stop and take a step back when I realise I’m getting upset over a nonserious situation. Which usually ends with me apologizing for not being more direct with the reason I’m upset.
In my opinion it’s as much on her as it is on him, but both have to acknowledge to make things work.
Best read in a long time, it is bang on what I’m going through. I’ve asked for a partner for far too many year’s, it’s been18 year’s married 4 kids later and he still has to ask what I 2ant done? Huh, look around anything would be appreciated. But I’ve learned I can’t install initiative and I can no longer parent my husband as I need a partner not another child.
This is so spot on right. Great depth and insight. I could have never explained it better than that.
This is a shoe that fits both male and female feet. It truly is just a matter of respect. I have asked my hubby of 40 plus years to please take off boots/shoes when entering the house. Many times he fails to do this. I used this analogy. He pours concrete for a living. I asked him at one point how he would feel if he had a nice just finished sidewalk and I decided I needed to get to the other side and walked right across his fresh concrete. It is the same thing. I would respect his hard work and he should respect mine. Period. I do what I can to make his life easier and he should do the same for me. We all “slip” once in a while and you get over that but when it happens time after time a person feels disrespected.
I think what you’re trying to get across here, that women and men should respect each other in the ways that the opposite spouse feels respected is important and true.
Commenters upset about the tagline, and saying you need to tell her where to go bc she was upset ab seemingly insignificant dishes, don’t seem to understand what is being shared here.
It seems to me, as if you’re saying that while you demanded respect from your wife, you were having a hard time seeing that in order to respect her in turn, she felt respect in different ways than you did. And this seemingly petty example, was just one of many ways that possibly had the same effect.
Possibly, also…Acts of Service could very well have been her love language, whereas yours might have been another, like: Words of Affirmation, Physical Touch, Quality Time, or Gifts. It’s hard to show love to another person effectively when we don’t know what their love language is or how it is that they feel loved, bc we try to love them in our language which makes more sense to us.
Also, loving your female spouse often drives her respect, which drives love on your end and emerges in an energizing cycle. Alternatively, unloving behavior drives her disrespect, which can drive your unloving attitude toward her, creating a “crazy cycle.”
So, I really think you were onto something here and I hope others can see what you were trying to get across as well!
Too long to read on the phone
But I get ʇɐɥʇ my wifey
Is tired of my reliance
On her to be the grown up
This is it exactly. You hit the nail on the head and put into words everything I felt for over 10 years.
Communication, try it different ways: ‘Why don’t you respect me when I ask you’…
Bonnie L. hits the nail on the head. If we didn’t have a good relationship modeled for us by our parents, we have to learn from each other, what the other expects. Respect each other, by communicating respect, first.
We learn bad habits over time and it may take time to change them. Have conversations about what is frustrating – without accusations or judgment. Have conversations of ‘what’ and ‘how’ – never assume he/she knows what is wrong or how to fix it. What and how – sex, finances, dirty dishes or muddy boots on the carpet – resolve the issues early in your relationship. Unless you want out – then don’t lie about love and string the other along.
The resentment and frustration of hidden truths can be devastating. My ex-wife minimized me and gave my son to her second husband – I could not respect her for this. My second wife minimized my son, and tried to give me her ex-husband’s children, by demonizing him – I could not respect her for this. Selfish motherhood can be evil, yet cloaked in love.
Even though men act like children, we still need respect
True. We should strive to earn it and deserve it. But yes. We require respect.
We don’t deserve it just for being.
But we DO deserve her best effort to demonstrate it by virtue of the marriage.
If men make their wives feel safe, she will respect and appreciate him.
Give to get. Always.
very submissive man and that’s the reason why she divorced him.
Now, THAT is spot on.
Repeating it will not make it true.
And playing red pill games might be great for short-term male-female attraction, but it’s a high-stakes gamble for long-term compatibility and companionship.
We’re all going to be 80 and wrinkly one day. Think about how you want to live when that day comes if you’re incapable of putting another human first now.
Spot on. They look nice and always try to please you
, but in the end you want to throw a shoe into their face.
It amazes me that when you first meet someone, you’ll do anything to get them to notice you. And then once you’re married, you won’t do the smallest thing to make them happy. I really don’t understand the “what’s in it for me?” mentality of some people. Sometimes it’s nice to do things for the simple reason that it’s the right thing to do. Actually that’s not entirely true. Not sometimes. ALL THE TIME! “Love” is an action. Don’t tell me you love me. Leave me with no doubt by the way you treat me. And I’ll do the same.
Wise, thoughtful take.
I think all of this depends on the type of partner you have. Every time I say “I’ve got this” I get verbally kicked in the nuts for not “communicating” with spouse about what I’m doing and how I am doing it before hand (because you see in feminist America they actually do want to be our mother and their way is the only way to get something done). Your spouse didn’t leave you because you left your drink glass in the sink, she left because she had 1 foot out the door already and was looking for a reason to put the other one out and close the door behind her and blame the whole thing on you. That’s how marriage in America is conducted today. Women have no reason or incentive to stay in a marriage whatsoever because the whole thing is nothing more than a license to acquire a man’s stuff, his money and his dignity without having to actually work for any of it. Anyone that disagrees with me can go sit in a family court or divorce court anytime they want to see hoow right I am. It’s no surprise that the marriage rates in America are dropping like a thermometer in Antarctica because women have been telling men for 50 years that they don’t need a man anymore (until the dreaded baby time bomb clock is about to explode and then it’s far too late) and men are finally listening and responding with “ha we don’t need you either!” ……marriage is bullshit.
The relationship is about her
The engagement is about her
The wedding is about her
The divorce will be about her
FORGETABOUTIT!!! #MGTOW
I would have loved it if my soon-to-be-ex had actually followed through even 1/4 of the times he said the equivalent of “I’ve got this”. It would have saved years of asking for help with literally *anything* he could bring himself to do other than beat off and play video games.
I was surprised to come across the title “SHE DIVORCED ME BECAUSE I LEFT DISHES BY THE SINK” and thought…that sounds about right. I only say that because I have seen the flip side. For over 10 years I have been the owner of a home services management firm (more than just housekeeping) and had male clients that would say things like, “If she thinks I’m going to marry her and she can’t even keep the house clean she’s crazy!” After hearing this time and time again I realize a lot of men really believe their wife/girl friend is there to be their personal cleaner. While some don’t mind paying to get her some help, he does not feel he is obligated to put the dirty socks he just took off in the laundry instead of where ever he may be sitting as they come off. ( I have even seen this in my male children – like they are born with it.) As mothers from day one we are teaching our male children there will/should be a woman to clean up after them.
It didn’t matter that she worked outside the home and tried to make everything easy and organized so it would make things less chaotic; if he didn’t want to use it he didn’t and pointed the finger at her. Now as a professional I don’t take sides I offer solutions. There were men that told me … yeah yeah yeah I know it works but I don’t feel like being bothered with it and she is just going to have to deal. (mouth wide open)
So I wrote a book to help ladies to be able to manage their home in just minutes a day. I have been able to use these services to keep my home running as well as; using them to please the most difficult clients. This book was designed to give the home managers a blueprint to making home maintenance easier and take less time. With these tips husbands and wives won’t have house cleaning to argue about.
I have seen a lack of appreciation on the side of the men and I am happy to see you address that and say, in so many words, you could have done better. I respect your honesty in that you didn’t think you were going to change even though you realized you could have done better. For so long house cleaning has been said to be a “woman’s” job men take that to mean live in housekeeper. While I believe there needs to be more teamwork in keeping the house managed and clean, this scenario of women getting fed up and walking away because of the lack of support is going to be repeated in households no matter what the consequences to their household.
I hope your next relationship works out better! All the best! If you want to get my book: getBook.at/badwife.
I have been married for 20 years now. We have six kids. There have been real issues to work through. Important issues. Life and death issues. I think it’s very true, on a microcosm level, that little things matter. But so does tolerance. You had a perfectly reasonable explanation for WHY you would leave a cup by the sink. Given such an explanation, it absolutely makes sense that the cup would remain by the sink. Partnership is give and take. If I want a cup in the dishwasher, I will put it in. I hope your ex wife has determined that she should remain single, because she has unrealistic expectations for partnering. Partnering is SO MUCH MORE important than divorcing over microcosm issues. Life gives us Macrocosm issues, and plenty of them, if we have the salt to stick it out…and that is when marriage starts to thicken and deepen…and then you can start to understand that the little things are your opportunity to learn to practice the breath work required for those cliff hanging moments where your fingers are slipping, but your partner grabs your wrist and pulls you back up over the ledge. Yeah. It can get THAT hard. So, after 20 years, I would rather see that my husband left a dish on the sink than to see his spot on the bed empty forever. And that happens too, in life. Someday one of us will die first. And I’m positive that on that day, if one of us left a glass on the sink, it will be never washed again and will be left on the sink always so that we can drink from That exact spot where lips from true love drank last.
Because THAT is how you feel when you understand the soul level of partnership.
So yes, pay attention to little things, but if little things lead to divorce, you were never really married in the first place.
This is the best comment, Sara! Put into words exactly what I was thinking. Married 37 years-5 children.My favorite sentence-“So, after 20 years, I would rather see that my husband left a dish on the sink than to see his spot on the bed empty forever.”
What a beautiful comment. You obviously understand the true meaning of love and marriage. Your statement about the glass never being washed again on the day that one of you died was very touching
Oh my! Very insightful. I think that sometimes we have to just accept the other person’s wishes if it will make them feel appreciated. If it is something that doesn’t bother me much, I just go along as it matters much more to my spouse.
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I dont think some of you read the article very closely. This man has realized the problem with a lot of marriages, relationships of all kind in general, but unfortunately he realized it too late. You can’t demand respect if you don’t give it in return. By his not doing that one simple act, then he showed his wife that he didn’t respect her at all, and made her feel he didn’t love her either. Yet I’m sure he complained if she did something that made him feel disrespected and unloved. He said she took great care of him and the home, he never said she didn’t also work outside of the home. Why is it that when a woman needs her husband to do something that is so simple to feel respected by him, then she’s demanding or a nag, but when a man needs actions and words from the wife to feel the same respect, then it’s ok? Why does that not make him a nag as well? Like he said, it would have taken four seconds to put the dish in the dishwasher and show his wife that he did love and appreciate her, as she did things to show she loved and appreciated him, yet he couldn’t take four seconds to do that?? That’s messed up, and ironically sums up the problem with this whole world in a nutshell. People expect others to take the time to do things to show them appreciation, but those same people don’t feel they should have to put forth even four seconds of their time doing things to show appreciation to anyone else. People feel they are just “entitled” because of who they are or what position they hold. Wake up folks, you came into this world butt naked with nothing and you’ll leave it the same, so in all actuality, you aren’t “entitled” to anything. Get off your butts and take a few seconds of your precious life to show someone you care for and appreciate them, and you just might be surprised by what you get in return. Until you do that, then stop complaining about what you get or aren’t getting from them, or how your life is going. Take responsibility for your on actions that cause failure, learn from them and make a change in yourself. As a mentor of mine has always said………..”You get what you deserve!”
This is the best article! My husband I were experiencing something similar. I asked him to read it and the light bulb went off. He actually apologized for his behavior. Thank you for putting this in terms that made it easy for him to understand.
That wasn’t why she divorced him. It was that, 30 other things and a lack of respect for each other. And “I got this” doesn’t always work. My ex was unhappy with me because “I got this” a lot and she felt that took away her independence and made her feel less useful.
So damned one way, and the other way too…
Man, you are missing the point. It is not her, it is YOU who is a doormat, that is why she treats you like one. You should have answered like a MAN the very first time she scolded you about the glass. She would have respected you more from that moment on and never brought it up again. You should have said-” Honey,this is the way I roll, deal with it. And please never tell me what to do in such a manner”. There are plenty of man who confuse being a man/husband with being a doormat/a scape goat.
By far the best article I’ve read in my life. Words could not be truer.
This post almost makes me cry. It’s exactly everything I want my husband to understand when we’re currently at our wits end. Thank you for taking the time to write this in an honest way from both perspectives. I’ve passed it on to him with hopes that somethings that I can’t explain can be better understood from a man saying the same things.
This is my marriage. I feel like a mother more than a partner. Like everything is on my shoulders and I don’t know how much longer they can carry the burden alone. Resentful that I’m carrying the load alone. I don’t hide my feelings. My husband knows. But it feels like he cares more about his happiness than mine. I’m not giving up but I would be lying to say I haven’t wanted to.
Spot on!
So glad me or my husband are not that petty. He both leave dishes by the sink and we both do the the dishes. There are far more important things to worry about in the world then a damn glass. Maybe she needed to look into herself more and find out truly why a stupid glass was such an issue for her. We are all human and have idiosyncrasies and we all should be able to learn to live with each other’s. Maybe should have looked at the many things the husband does right and compare that to a silly glass. Your feeling of selfworth and respect should come from yourself first not a glass. imo
And yes we have a wonderful marriage going on 18 years.
Did you become angry when it was YOUR job to snake the crap out of clogged toilet or lay on your back on the cold driveway to fix her car. No, you just did it. Did you leave her because she left the lights on all over the house or bought 200$ worth of candles when you were ‘short’ this month… No. You put the seat down on the toilet after you pee, didn’t you… She doesn’t pick it up for you when she is done, does she. Honestly, if she left you over a dirty glass, there were much bigger things going on. We all have our quirks and a dirty glass is a small thing that can be sucked up if she really loved you I the first place.
Her loss. She needs to learn to chill out. If she’s that insecure about your love for her, then she was never sure to begin with. It’s about her issues, not yours.
My husband and I are parting ways because of this very thing. ONLY, both of us do these things that annoy each other. I’d ask him if things were ok and the only response I would get is “it’s fine, I’m not your dad”. But he ended up being more like my dad than he thought. And I can’t be his mom and tell him what he needs to do because he’s grown and should know better.
I feel like if we loved each other, it wouldn’t have ended up this way. But it’s because we communicate differently and assign different values to things.
You say “I can’t be his mom and tell him what he needs to do because he’s grown and should know better” And THAT is exactly the point of the article above.
First is this something he NEEDS to do, or something you WANT him to do? To men there is a radical difference between NEED and WANT. To men, things that NEED to be done NEED a reason for that need; I need to properly inflate the tires on the car BECAUSE low pressure is dangerous, my wife could be injured if the tires are low, low tires wear faster costing money. I have a reason for the NEED.
If its something you WANT him to do, he’ll need a reason, and that reason must be sufficient motivation. I am aesthetically blind when it comes to interior design, don;t even see it, much less think about how it looks. I close the curtain because there is a glare on the TV, she WANTS the closed curtains to be symmetrically placed with no discernible gaps in the middle or the edges. Finally, instead of nagging me about sloppy curtains, she sat down and explained that uneven curtains were an OCD issue with her and seeing them uneven just went straight up her nose like dragging a car key down a paint job. She went though an instruction period teaching me how to align the curtains, and now, having a reason for being concerned about the curtains I do much better at aligning them (although she STILL readjusts them when I’m done). She had a WANT, explain to me that it was important to her, and WHY it was important to her and gave me one on one instructions on HOW to accomplish the task.
You seem to believe that because he is grown he should KNOW what YOU want and need. You’re grown, do you know how to Check the transmission fluid on your car, do you know how to skin a deer, tie a lure, sharpen an ax?? I grew up knowing how to take care of ME and the things that were important to ME. Things that were or are important to someone else are as foreign to ME as the ‘need’ to watch one of those ignorant “Housewives of where ever” shows. Not only do I not know anything about it, it’s not even on my radar to look for. My wife discovered this AFTER we were married, but, smart lady that she is, she understood it was not about her, it was about what I knew and understood. So she made it a point to instruct me on her desires and reasons (the curtain). Some 41 years later, I’m still learning, still missing, still forgetting, still being me, but I hit more often than I used to, and she sees the effort.
Short answer, don’t assume anyone (especially a man) knows anything that you haven’t told them. If you want someone (especially a man) to be as concerned over an issue as you are, you must provides that individual with the reasons you are concerned; “because I do”, is a poor reason to a man and will have less than stellar results. If you don;t know why it is a concern to you, then explain that, tell him you don’t know why it makes you nuts, but it does drive you up a wall. A guy can relate to that, that squeak makes us nuts, and we’ll dismantle the truck looking for it.
Love, like many things is a choice. I CHOOSE to love my wife regardless of her actions; what she does or does not do, or even her choice to love me or not. I CHOOSE to love her in spite, or maybe because of all the things about her that make me nuts. I CHOOSE to love her every morning when I get up and every evening when I go to bed and every minute in between. Does that mean I auto-magically understand her every want or desire, not at all, doesn’t even mean I notice them. What that means is when I DO finally see and understand I will do everything I can to meet those needs and desires. I am blessed with a wife that understands I’m a guy, the same guy she chose to love all those years ago.
To quote Bette Davis, “.. I suspect you are a treasure.”.
Yep, this helps! Wish you were here with me and my cigarette-smoking, COPD-suffering, stubborn Aries, retired military, coughing, conflicted, precious man who’s (clumsily) asked me about getting married but his smoking is creating similar female reactions for me, along with his possible kicking the bucket too soon. Scares me bad, and I TRY NOT to nag! But mornings often I’m not so strong and his inhalers w/ cigarettes w/ long coughing spells w/ smelly breath, I’m in tears with fear and wondering, “What the hell am I thinking!?”.
I look forward to counseling here and reading your blogs. Bless you, and I’m sorry for he loss of your marriage.. you’re more than making up for any misunderstood maleness.
Thanks a million!
As the mom of two teen children, one a son, I realize much of the problem comes about through poor parenting. I am not my children’s servant, they are not entitled. I will gladly do things for them if asked, but it had better not be an expectation. What does this do? It prepares them for adult relationships in which they have few expectations and much appreciation.
Oh, I deal with my own spousal annoyances from time to time. Just this morning I awoke to a sink full of dirty breakfast dishes and thought,” The dishwasher is half a step away, why does he expect ME to take care of it?” But in the same second of thought processing, I recall how he took time to change the oil yesterday on the car I drive and how he fixed the leaking roof and how he intentionally sets aside his own agenda to play a board game with our kids. Darn it, I can move the dishes into the dishwasher as his partner. After all, when we married we became ONE, not two. Together we can do this thing.
In raising our children to be future spouses I want them to be givers, not takers. I want them to recognize and appreciate the good they see, not be fault finders. I want them to seek spouses with those same servant hearts; and if they do, they will have happy homes.
*2 thumbs up*
There is hope for this world!! Thank you for being good parents and good people. You just made my day. ?
Amen! Great job, mama!!! <3
It’s still pretty one sided. First off, no one will leave you over a glass, but it’s all the other littke things that can be troublesome. Respect in a marriage works both ways. I could care less if my hubby leaves dishes by the sink- although, he usually rinses them off, and puts them in the sink.Little things do matter, and they do add up. I do not nag, I ask once, and maybe remind him after dome time, but that’s it.
Did you not read this article in its entirety? I feel you are missing the point of the whole story. How sad.
Exactly, Leah.
Leah, you are right. Becky missed the point, which is very obvious, true, and fair. She might be reading it w/ bitterness still reigning in her emotions. Very sad indeed.
This made me cry. Not just “tears in her eyes” cry, but actual sobs. I’m in this situation now, the stressed-out, only wage earner, primary housekeeper, ‘living with an abscessed tooth so he can go to karaoke weekly and I can actually enjoy some peace” soon-to-be ex-wife with the self-centered soon-to-be ex-husband. The fights got so bad, and so long, and on-going, that I didn’t just feel hurt and ignored. I came all the way around to raging right back at him, waking neighbors, and wishing him– and myself– dead.
So I left.
I’m sending this to his therapist. Thanks for putting it all into words so succinctly.
awww… I’m sorry to hear this! 🙁
Why didn’t you go to karaoke with him? If he goes every week, it’s obviously something he enjoyed. Why not enjoy it with him? It takes effort on both sides.
Are you kidding? Did you read the post? She wants him to go so she can “actually enjoy some peace”.
I worked 50 hr+/week at minimum wage or just above between two or three jobs; he worked 8-12hr/week at minimum wage and went to karaoke at 4 different places (Tues, Wed, Fri, & alternating Saturdays). I’d occasionally go with him to one if I by some miracle had the day off the next day, but for the most part, when I got home, I wanted: food, a shower, a chance to read a book for an hour, and sleep, not necessarily in that order. Every ounce of my free time above work was his, either by direct contact (trade shows for his business, family events, etc.) or indirectly (picking his empty beer bottles up from the bedroom floor, cleaning our apartment, taking care of his pets, etc.) It took me a good 2 years to remember that I was entitled to that one night a week of time to reset myself. I hope you don’t think that I wasn’t, because it would join some of your other comments as proof that you’re far too immature to be in a serious relationship at this point.
IMHO, that was just about the best article i have ever read on this “most misunderstood” part of marriage. Nobody ever teaches us about the diametrically opposing forces (logic versus feelings)… at play in this type of scenario, which constantly repeats itself daily throughout the life of a marriage. Logic has no place in this conversation. Husbands simply have no clue about why a wife could possibly become upset over something as “silly” as leaving a glass by the sink. After being happily (relatively) married 45 years, i just learned about this extremely important aspect of marriage a year ago, when after taking a seminar with the Forum, i realized that i didn’t know what i didn’t know. Your essay was spot on.
Your blog should be sent to every husband in America…which would probably result in a significant reduction in divorces + a significant spike in the happiness threshold of wives all across our great Country!
I agree with you about the quality of this article. However, some husbands just don’t care to know (or care at all) about their spouse’s feelings, even when she has expressed the same sentiments the author has talked about for years. When he likes having a mother instead of a wife, no quality ground is strived for. In turn, love from her goes away and is replaced with apathy and resentment. I know this first hand, unfortunately. I do hope husbands who read this will take it to heart, as you did learning it at a seminar. Kudos.
Could you please provide more information on the seminar you went to? I would like to go to something like it. Thanks
It was called LANDMARK FORUM. It is a full three day intensive course about learning how to live a better and more enjoyable life. Do a little background search first…but before you sign up, feel free to contact me and I would be glad to give you the benefit of what I think was very good….versus very bad.
Thus article made me cry. You were spot on with your words. I shared it with my son and told him he must remember this article every single moment of his relationship/marriage when he chooses his life partner. Thank you.
Awesome
As a single male, this article made me want to stay single until I die. I barely have time, between working for a living and just living, to have to take care of someone else’s little mental problems. I’d just end up doing everything all the time to stop them complaining, and that sounds less than ideal.
As a married female, good. Stay single. We don’t want to marry men like you.
If you love someone as much (or more than) yourself, it doesn’t feel like a burden to do little things that make them feel loved, wanted, and appreciated. Just enjoy being (obviously) young and single. You may change your thinking about it for the right person, you may not. But at least you took the time to read this and have the opportunity to think about it down the line when this comes up in one of your relationships. Because it will. It (ime) always does.
This article at its core really is about listening to the other person carefully, as someone already said.
In my case, we talked to a fertility doc after my miscarriage and she laid out the plan for us which included invasive testing and hormone injections for me along with steroidal supplements etc.. But the recommendation for my husband was simple: take a multivitamin every day.
A few days later he still hadn’t bought them. I was upset that while I had already gone through so much physically he wasn’t doing this one simple thing. So I said that to him once rather than continuing to stew.
He said he hadn’t thought it would make a difference so he hadn’t bothered. He immediately went to the store and bought some and started the daily regiment.
I can’t tell you how glad I was every time I saw that bottle sitting around. It reminded me that we are a team.
No idea if it actually made a difference but we are expecting this summer.
A lot of folks here seem to think folks only notice the one thing their partners do wrong but I know some of us really appreciate the small things folks do for us, especially if we have been in other relationships where our partner did not make the effort.
Conversely, being taken for granted sucks in any direction. A pattern of having our partners ignore our feelings is really destructive. This is not a gendered statement… You didn’t about the dishes but you probably cared about some other thing and would have noticed if it was ignored long enough.
Spot on!!! Thank you for writing this artcle, I hope it goes viral lol! You described my relationship and probably a million others to a Tee. Men and women need all the help we can get to navigate our way through relationships successfully ?
If it wasn’t the stupid glass, it would have been something else.
As it turns out, it WAS something else.
Thanks for reading!
Dude! What an awesome post! I’m not even of marriageable age.. I’m too young to understand the institution of marriage but still loved it. The way you have written it.. It’s so beautiful! There’s just so much to take! And to learn from! Hats off to you! ?
I think this was a great article. Every marriage has their “glass on the counter”. And unless you are married to a clone of yourself, you can, with thought, pick apart anyone. Ask any married couple and if they are honest there will be one or two or….. Issues that reoccur as themes they work on. But I think the major key words are “work on”. If there is an honest effort to make change or find solutions on both parts, you have a working partnership. If not, you have one person who is reasonably content getting their way all the time, and one walking away continually hurt and resentful. Not really the recipe for long term marital bliss.
It may sound like I have it all figured out, oh no! Both my husband and I are in counseling separately dealing with demons that were interfering with our life and marriage. My husband works, and my business is out of my home so we are both busy. I don’t mind doing “chores”. Wash, taking garbage out, meals, etc. What has driven me crazy for many years is that my husband uses the kitchen counters, all of them, to file and organize his mail and the bills. I have helped him try many different systems over the years to make this more efficient ( bills are always being lost) but none have worked for him. He does have an office for this but has chosen not to use it.
This time we approached our general issues, including the mail, differently. We talked about how we would like our lives to be, look like and feel like. Imagine that, talking to each other. ? I’m sure like any plan we will have to tweek things a bit. But it’s better than letting frustration and resentment throw away a 35 year investment.
This is an insightful piece, and it definitely applies to all people of this archetype! I leave my dishes out all the time, much to the chagrin of my husband (me being a woman). And i can also be totally stubborn and obstinate about things that seem illogical or trivial to me. And my husband can sometimes seem intentionally surly when I do things that bother him.
It’s easy to put a gender on things, and is something we’ve been conditioned to do all our lives. It’s made me wonder many times whether I was a total weirdo! Luckily I’ve met lot of other weirdos and realized personality types are really what we’re experiencing, rather than gender roles.
Thanks so much for writing this piece. I’m sitting here eating lunch, and would have probably thrown my plate in the sink like I always do. Even though he hates it. You’ve made me reconsider that course of action!
No shit. I feel like I’m drowning over here. I don’t care about a glass, I just want to be a priority for my husband. Like, I would even settle to be in the top 5 of his priorities. It breaks my heart because I do love him, and I keep saying it will get better. But, I’ve been begging for a change for over a year. I feel defeated, and alone. He says I’m too emotional and to find a surrogate husband to “woo” me. His words, not mine. His bitter, acid laced words. They break my heart every fucking time.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Marital counseling, individual therapy, or at least finding a support group. Lacking effective communication between you seems to be at the root of this, and those sources can help you both develop those skills and create a plan of action to address any resolvable issues. He has to be on board too though, it can’t be all on you. If your partner refuses to act like one, then you’ll have to decide your limits. You deserve healthy compromise and to feel acknowledged and loved. Good luck and best wishes. <3
Have him read this article then your comment. If it doesn’t affect him on any kind of emotional level, maybe you should seek professional guidance.
Have him read this article then your comment. If it does not affect him emotionally in any way consider seeking professional guidance. Best of luck.
Therapy. 100%.
It sounds like you need some marriage counseling. If your husband refuses to go, go without him. Find out why you’re with someone who treats you this way. You can’t go on feeling this way. It’s bad for your mental & physical well being. I wish you the best.
I know I will probably get pounded on for this, but here goes: ditch the”couple” therapy suggestions, because it takes 2 people to go into therapy, when you’re in a marriage. Just you going, or him going but not wanting to be there or try to understand or change his behavior is not going to work. As I’m sure you are already aware of. I think you pretty much nailed what you want on the head: “I don’t care about a glass. I just want to be a priority for my husband”. And I think he pretty much nailed his response to what you want: “You’re too emotional, find a surrogate husband to woo you”. IMHO, when a man feels he doesn’t need to “woo” his woman (be nice, don’t call her names, do nice and thoughful things for her just because, be a partner and not a problem), and/or when a woman doesn’t feel she needs to do things that matter to her husband (don’t wear comfy clothes ALL the time, take an interest in her appearance, reach out and TOUCH him, initiate sex instead of making him do it all the time), this is when marriage has taken that turn to divorce. BOTH people have to care enough to do things for one another, and work together in the marriage. Otherwise, one person is just, as another reader said, “getting their way all the time”, and the other is pretty much slaving away all the time. From what your husband said, he’s not interested in what makes you feel good, he’s not interested in changing in any way to make you feel good, and you need to “look elsewhere” if you want to feel good. Ball is in your court: what do YOU want, and what are you willing to do to get it? Stay and continue, or leave and find someone who WILL put your feeling good as a priority. And, yeah, if you decide to leave, a little therapy before looking for another mate is probably a good idea too. At that point, the therapy is about You and not your marriage: what you want, what your expectations are, and tools to change yourself into who you want to be.
I co-sign with this wholeheartedly.
With all due respect to savvy Ph.Ds and well-meaning counselors, I’ve adopted what seems to be a slightly controversial belief that COUPLES marriage counseling is a horrible idea.
I wrote a couple posts called Why Marriage Counseling is a Bad Idea. I don’t remember whether they were good. But I do know that the premise was what you said here.
Individual counseling is great. Talk stuff out. Figure out who and what you are and how you fit into whatever is broken and whatever the solution is.
When we wait for other people to change on our behalf, bad things ensue. So many me have accused me of saying men should change for their wives.
I’ve said nothing of the sort. I have barely addressed wives at all. I don’t think it’s my place.
What I said was, be responsible for making your marriage great. Give your best.
When we approach counseling with that mindset, we grow and maybe our marriages make a comeback.
When two super-hurt and angry people sit down with a stranger and take turns telling her/him all the things their spouses do that make them miserable, very bad things happen next.
Less finger pointing. More introspection.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I think this idea is important.
I was where you are now about 3 years ago. All I can say is: talk to a counselor, without him. A good “couples” counselor is probably going to tell you the following: you have to work on yourself regarding this problem separate from the other half of the relationship. Then, you can work on the “together” part “together”. So, get thee to a PhD. If your GP thinks you need it, don’t be afraid of an antidepressant. Up your Vit D intake if you don’t already supplement. *Then*, start trying to process. And if he gets on board after you start healing, good. If not… well, then you’ve got your answer.
While I agree that husbands are to love their wives and women are to respect their husbands (this is biblical, by the way), I also believe communication (respectful communication, not nagging) is key to a good marriage. Neither husbands nor wives are psychic.
My husband and I will soon celebrate 46 years of marriage, and we love each other more now than ever. We haven’t always seen eye to eye on everything, and many things have taken time and patience to work through. And some things just need to be overlooked or accepted because they really aren’t that important or worth fighting over. Petty grievances can grow into mountains if we let them. He still likes the toilet seat up and I like it down. It’s his house too. He has to raise it. I have to lower it. Sounds like a pretty fair deal to me. He still leaves his cereal box sitting below the cabinet where it is stored rather than actually opening the door and putting it away. Sometimes I sigh and sometimes I laugh, roll my eyes and put it away. I don’t get all bent out of shape and think he’s showing disrespect to me.
I’m just so thankful to have my man, my best friend here with me to share this life we have. I’m grateful for hugs when I’m feeling the need for comfort, for the warmth of his presence in the bed next to me, and to see his smile across the table or across a crowded room.
Let’s focus more on the good and less on the bad. Love is too valuable to throw it away over petty, inconsequential things.
Gail. Thank you!!! Thank you!!!
I feel like this is the most appropriate response of them all.
A marriage is a partnership and doing things differently, thinking differently and putting or leaving things in the house will annoy people but the minute you understand that we are different these little things should be inconsequential.
I feel like a person who gets annoyed at toothpaste being squeezed a certain way so to speak has way bigger personal issues to deal with.
No matter the person they marry, there will always be a “glass” or a “toothpaste” that will annoy them until they learn that love overlooks faults, shortcomings and chooses to focus on bigger, more important things.
To be perfectly honest, perhaps these two types of personality (care on the extreme or not care at all) are always going to be incompatible no matter what until one person caves and chooses to let go.
I really think this is unfair to lots of men who could hire a maid in a heartbeat so that no dishes are left in the sink at all ever. But their wives will not admit this is ever the right solution.
I also think the notion that by not doing something the wife deems important means you disrespect her is wrong. There are a number of things that women do or choose not to do that annoys men but we will never, ever let it escalate to the point of a divorce. I wish it was mutually true.
Hi Matt. I love what you have written in this article! I have thought long and hard about the differences between men and women, especially when it comes to approaches to relationships. My marriage of 15 years broke up about 10 years ago, and I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about what I did that led to that breakdown. I have some theories, and I look forward to the day – hopefully – when I can put those theories into practice in another relationship, but for now I’m just doing the best I can to make myself a better person. Sounds like you too have that mindset. I wonder if I can ask you to define for me what men mean when they say they want respect. What does that really mean? I know that it is important – perhaps the most important thing to men – but when I’ve asked other men what they mean when they say it, no one can give me a really good answer. Can you?
I trust my internal compass to know when I’m being disrespected. It doesn’t mean it’s accurate. It just means I’ve convinced myself I’m pretty good at evaluating fairness.
I think with someone as close to me as a spouse, I could always tell the difference.
I could try to tell you what it means to me. But it’s somewhat intangible, right? I mean, context and relativity often matter.
I think MOST men feel disrespected when their wives nag them about something like a glass.
It really does come off petty in a certain context.
But I see it differently today than I did five or 10 years ago.
Now I know it’s not the glass. I’ve read a million things. Had a million talks. Written a million words. And despite the naysayers’ best attempt to discredit it, I’m MOSTLY right about all this.
There are no absolutes. People are unique. There are statistical outliers. And as many have mentioned, the specifics of a tidy home are not limited to biological gender differences. Has more to do with cultural differences and who is doing what professionally and wage-earning-wise.
But I live in the real world. Where stereotypes are frequently true. Stereotyping is very bad when you are discriminating. We are not doing that here. We are trying to get people to understand and celebrate differences rather than fruitlessly fight them and end up divorced.
It ultimately boils down to this:
Most married men feel like they’re pretty cool and don’t ask for much. They want to share resources, keep one another company, have sex, support one another. And any man not trying to sleep with other women feels like he deserves the benefit of the doubt RE: “You can count on me. Stop saying I’m not here for you.”
Men feel like they don’t ask for much. They feel like their preference for NOT being hassled isn’t too much to ask for.
I know. It’s 100-percent how I always felt.
Men are forced to give up things men love when they get married. The brotherhood and camaraderie of team sports and their tribe. A lot of wives see a bunch of immature boys burping, mock air humping each other and shooting belittling insults toward one another and believe her boyfriend/husband will be better off without them.
When he pairs up, this fundamental part of his identity is taken away from him.
It’s LOSS. And roll your eyes all you want, we grieve.
I’d like to see the divorce stats on married men who live in their hometowns and have a critical mass of lifelong friends around them, or one who stayed in his college town and had the same, and then stayed connected to the tribe through marriage and adulthood, often including his wife in the tribe activities.
So long as she is included (and not abandoned at home) I would assume you’d see an eye-opening difference in relationship success rates.
It’s something not discussed enough.
A man gives up his identity and promises her forever even though he’s a little bit scared. You know the stereotypes. Fear of commitment. Fear of freedom loss.
He’s like: “I’ve given up my life for this woman. I love her and am faithful. I gladly share resources with her. I am a reliable financial and physical partner. I am a reliable, trustworthy parenting partner…
“And you’re going to freak out about this GLASS!?! W. T. F.”
Conclusion: “She doesn’t respect me.”
But you and I both know there are a handful of small things he could do or say daily that would ALWAYS keep dirty dishes in the appropriate category. (Not important.)
It’s only important when it’s part of huge mosaic of disrespect and emotional neglect and abandonment.
Many men have no idea–NONE–that their actions equate to emotional neglect and abandonment. Feelings which cause her to say and do things that feel disrespectful. Because she HAS stopped respecting him.
Game over.
I think we can do better. I’m so glad we’re talking about it.
Yes, I think you’ve nailed it when you say that she HAS stopped respecting him. And I think that comes from her having the perhaps correct sense that, as you describe, he feels like he has sacrificed a lot to be in the marriage and so she shouldn’t ask for too much more. It’s sort of like he’s thinking to himself “You should be grateful that I’m earning money for our partnership and that I’m not sleeping around. What more do you want.” Is that correct? I see that you now see that the glass matters and that a part of her moves away from him when he continually chooses not to honor her request (maybe nagging, but maybe not) that he make the effort for her. But I guess my remaining question is what should she do when she feels that he is disregarding her requests? One thing I’ve thought about – and I don’t know how well this would work – is that if I were to get remarried I would do everything I could to maintain a feeling of gratitude for every single thing that he was doing that makes my life easier. I have lived for a long time by myself, and I have become very self-sufficient. All household tasks fall onto my shoulders and I do them willingly because there simply isn’t anyone else around to share the load. What if I could go into another relationship with the expectation that I would keep doing all those things, and then when he willingly offers to do any of them, I respond with gratitude. I think that would work as long as he voluntarily did offer to take some things on. But what if he thinks that he is already doing me a huge favor by giving up his tribe and his freedom and all that and so he never offers to do the things that ease my burden? It would be extremely hard in that situation to maintain a happy attitude about doing all of the household chores. And I’m not sure it would be healthy either. So it takes both partners coming to the table with this question in their hearts: How can I help you and ease your burden? Once either party feels that he or she needs to defend his or her turf, then you’ve moved into a scrabble for respect, fairness, and love, and that’s hard to recover from.
Thanks for your frankness about what goes through a man’s mind. It’s really helpful.
I am really appreciative for this perspective and your ability to put so much into words. I think Kristin was asking what things can a woman do to make a man feel respected and loved so we can avoid “petty” things festering into bigger issues. I think there are a lot of books out there about how people “receive” love (5 Love Languages, etc) that can be applied.
Matt, I do have a question. How do you think people come back from this? Say husband and wife are fighting over this glass by the sink and both parties “see the light”. If the glass causes pain it will eventually cause a wound. Do you think its possible for that wound to heal? And the couple to repair their relationship?
If someone leaving a glass by the dishwasher makes you feel like they are incompetent. You have expectancy issues. Sir, you are fine. Be glad she left, cause you don’t need that negativity. I don’t know about you, but I understand the concept of a refill in the future, and how to save money on soap by not necessarily washing something everytime I’m about to use it again. Honestly she was getting stressed over nothing. Men can miss signals just like females, and we can over look things, just like the other. If you didn’t ask them, and they didn’t explain they had intention to do it, you shouldn’t feel disrespected or like he hates you just because he forgot to hang his coat up somewhere, or forgot to mow the yard. We don’t hate you just because you forgot your wedding ring when we go out together, why would you hate us over something like a dish.
Bravo! You completely missed the point of this entire piece. ?
There was no “missing signals.” His wife told him to put that damn glass in the dishwasher multiple times.
Maybe I can help with this. What a husband wants when he says he wants respect from his wife, is for her to value the things he does just as she wants value for the things she does. Many women take the things for granted that her husband does for their marriage and makes it trivial. The pendulum swings both ways. I purchased flowers for my wife and had them sent to her work, i felt good about this but the first comment my wife made was, “you spent too much money.” This is where the term, “you took the wind right out of my sails,” comes from. I went from feeling I had done a good thing to feeling a little low. Even if she felt too much money was spent, this comment she should have kept to herself and just said, thank you. I hope this helps.
In that aspect of spending too much, it could have been something as simple as “we can’t afford this kind of expenditure” to “I don’t deserve this… now I feel awful.”
Another thing I wonder is if she’s a flower lover. I’m not. I get a rose from the gas station once in awhile from my husband, but I’d appreciate a bottle of beer over flowers any day. If my husband sent me a hundred dollars worth of flowers to me, I’d say the same thing, simply because… I’m not a flower type girl. Take me out for dinner for the same amount to create a memory. A bottle of liquor because you know exactly what I like, etc.
It’s an assumption on my part, of course. But to a woman that gets exactly what she wanted, the only reason she’d get turned off is financial reasons or doesn’t feel deserving.
WOW, SO IF A WOMAN GETS A PRESENT BUT IT IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTED, INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING THANK YOU FOR THE THOUGHT, SHE CRITISIZES IT? THAT IS A WOMAN WHO IS GOING TO GET FEWER PRESENTS. IT IS NOT THE PRESENT THAT COUNTS IT IS THINKING ENOUGH OF HER TO GET HER SOMETHING FOR NO REASON OTHER THAN TO SAY I LOVE YOU AND AM THINKING OF YOU.
Sorry but it’s not the dishes and it’s not that ‘logic’ vs. ‘female emotion’ thing. It’s the totality of the circumstances of all of the ways that you did not step up. I’ve been in two long term relationships with men who left dishes around the house. My husband pulls his weight in the relationship and so I view it with mild irritation, remember that we are a team, and then let it go. When my ex would do it, it would fill me with rage, as it was a visceral reminder of all the ways he was expecting me to be his mother. At the end of the day, you can’t respect someone who isn’t a full partner and you can’t maintain a healthy, long-term relationship with someone you don’t respect.
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Most of this is completely crap. What has happened to respect and tolerance in a partnership. There are 2 people in a marriage, who have equal rights, not one poor hen pecked husband with a dominating over sensitive irritable wife. Where is the consideration, sense of sharing and essential humour that goes to making up a marriage. If you cant laugh together, accept each others failings with good grace. and be friends as well as married, what a waste of time You are well rid and better luck next time
If I ask you to do anything to contribute to making our home run smoothly and it isn’t important enough to just do, I am not important to you. If whatever it is is not important enough to REMEMBER to do always, I am not important to you. I ALWAYS use the analogy-if you worked for me you would remember, how much MORE effort should be applied to someone you LOVE! Unfortunately most moms of boys set them up to fail at marriage and most dads of boys bring that same behavior which sets up the model for their sons. Daughters observe this scenario as well. Only two options do the same thing, and get he same result, or do the opposite, and bask in the glow of a happier marriage.
The problem in this situation has nothing to do with communication or differing values. It is a problem with all relationships in which we expect the other person to “make” us happy. If people would learn that true happiness comes from within, what another person does or does not do would never affect in anyway. We are responsible for our own happiness in life, no one can help us achieve that.
Charles. I agree very strongly with your “true happiness comes from within” stance. It does.
But to deny that other people can’t affect us emotionally is a little bit disingenuous. Only masters of stoicism could claim that. And I have mixed feelings (ironically) on stoicism.
A marriage is not two individuals.
A marriage is one united thing made from two parts. When one part saps from the other without giving back, the one thing cracks in two.
Yes. Strong boundaries. Well communicated pre-marriage. Great.
Once married, as things evolve? We don’t get to wash our hands of our responsibility to fulfill our vows. In good times and in bad.
It’s a lot easier for two individuals to achieve true happiness when the partner they’re conjoined with isn’t a parasitic tumor.
This is so powerful. I wish more men would understand the basic truth you share here. My husband and I came close to divorce over similar issues and he figured it out, too. I chronicle our journey in my new book, The Romance Diet: Body Image and The Wars We Wage on Ourselves. The male perspective you offer is beautiful and I hope it gets widely shared. Thanks for the post.
The funny thing is when I read this I realized it can apply in the reverse, as a husband of two grown children who still live at home I am the one who takes care of the majority of the household duties, laundry, dinner, vacuuming, cleaning the bathrooms as well as the usually duties a husband is expected to do,mowing the lawn, take out the garbage etc…. while my wife sits on the couch remote in hand surfing channels telling me how I tough she has it. I got tired of the fights when I would bring up the need for assistance and just shut down. I will bide my time and leave when the kids do.
Do you actually care about staying in that relationship? If so, you should tell her now that you’re going to walk out the door when the kids are grown. She may then understand the gravity of the situation and you two will have a chance at working it out.
I see your point, but, as a woman, I take offense at it. Why is it okay for a woman to attach significant meaning to something that it simply a bad habit on the part of her husband? I’m sure she has loads of bad habits that are overlooked.
It’s not popular to say, but women tend to overly nitpick. And then we keep picking at the wound so that it never heals, but instead it festers and turns into something that it never should have. We married women are adults and not children. We can choose not to take everything personally, but it’s much easier to just fly off the handle.
For better or worse, we have chosen our husbands. Instead of justifying throwing them away, perhaps the article would be better directed towards those who are not married. Give the advice that if him leaving the toilet seat up or leaving dishes undone will make you crazy, then don’t marry a guy who does those things.
Sorry I offended you. I think being an adult and making good partner choices is super smart. I’m with you 100 percent.
Sadly, lots of really young people get married at 23 or whatever and they just don’t know what they don’t know.
Maybe it takes a failed relationship to understand what would make for optimum compatibility. I don’t pretend to know much.
Thanks for reading.
You are full of regret, and yet you still present the issue as being about not being respectful of things that are important to HER. She doesn’t want you to demonstrate how much you care about the “silly nonsense” that matters to her by not leaving your laundry on the floor and putting your glass in the dishwasher – she wants you to be a human being who also doesn’t want to live in disorder. If you just spent an hour shoveling the driveway and then a plow comes by and fills it in – you feel outrage. You invested time & energy into clearing your driveway – because it is necessary, not because you prefer it that way. And then someone else comes along and dumps a pile of snow in it and now you have more work to do when you thought you were done.
Living in a tidy environment should also be important to you – she is not “in charge” of maintaining the household. “Tell me what to do and I’ll do it” ?? IS YOUR LAUNDRY ON THE FLOOR ? Maybe you should wash it. Did you just make a sandwich ? Maybe you should put your dishes away and give the countertop a quick wipe so the next person to use the kitchen doesn’t have to clean up after your ass – or because it was clean when you went in there. Don’t clean up after yourself because you want to demonstrate how much you love & respect your partner – clean up after yourself because you are an adult who doesn’t want to live in a shit hole.
In other words, “do what is right because it is right.”
The difference is when you bring this up to women, like “dont buy this type of eggs or this type of yogurt because it’s unhealthy” and they roll their eyes at you and ignore you that is a problem as well but most (if not all) men are not thinking of divorcing because of that.
Ultimately women who do this have way bigger personal issues to deal with than seeing the fault of their husbands.
A wise (the wisest) man said, “Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?”
It goes both ways and women should know it.
Love this. You get it.
Thank you thank you thank you! I’ve been trying to tell my husband this for way too long! When the time comes for this conversation it’s always the heat of the moment, I get flustered, and can’t find my words! I am copying and pasting this link to him right after I type. I feel so naggy on a daily basis and I hate it. But I also hate how I’ve stressed the importance of recycling to me since I’ve been a little girl yet I still find cans and paper in the garbage. It makes me think he doesn’t really know me or doesn’t care. I’ve gone from respectfully asking him to unfold his crusty work socks before putting them in the laundry because it grosses me out (it makes me want to gag, even if it is illogical) to full blown nagging about it because they’re still thrown all over the house. It’s been years. I’ve tried to give it says or months to see an improvement but sometimes you just become so pissed off and end up freaking out. I don’t want to be that person. I don’t have very high expectations for our house. I’m not a clean freak and neither is he. But it’s the little things that will help make both our lives easier in the long run, especially with a new baby. I appreciate everything he does and he’s a wonderful husband but I do feel disrespected and this post finally makes that connection for me. I always thought I was being a naggy a**hole wife and should just accept that the dishes will never be cleared of food and places in the sink with huge gobs of ketchup left on them. Or that beard hair will forever cover my sink and toothpaste will crust my towels and be thrown in the wash after one use. I am not perfect and I think some men tolerate the little things a lot easier but I know there are things that bother him as well. I’ve been thinking lately that we should write down all our pet peeves (I hate that word) for eachother and both make a conscious effort recognize when we do them. Because I don’t want him to feel disrespected and hurt like I feel. I also don’t want my marriage to end because of crusty socks :/
You really hit the nail on the head here. This is exactly how I feel when I walk into a kitchen I just busted my butt to get clean, only to find trash lying about or dirty dishes left for ME to deal with. It is about the lack of respect. I mean so little that a miniscule amount of effort is too much. I have tried to explain this, but feel it doesn’t really sink in.
I don’t want my husband to say “I got this”. I don’t find that sexy at all. I want him to offer to help, and listen to what help I need and how I want it done. Otherwise, it is easier for me to do it myself.
Oh my. “How I want it done..”
Someone asked me earlier what disrespecting a husband from a man’s perspective looks like.
I’m sorry to tell you, but it looks like THAT.
Thanks for reading.
Got it.
Yikes. I’d be divorced REAL quick!
Then you will be doing ALL of it yourself before too long, because no self-respecting husband is going to stick around.
I am a female, and I leave dishes in/near the sink often. It drives my husband a little nuts, but he rarely says anything. If he made an issue out of it, I would change. If she honestly and truly left you for such a simple, idiotic reason as this, you guys were never meant to be together in the first place. Find someone who is chill, and flexible.
I’m so glad to said this. Because this illustrates the point so many were missing.
It’s not about the dishes.
It’s about WHATEVER thing violates our partner’s boundaries that causes them pain.
If two people love dishes by the sink or feel indifferent as I do, then it’s a 100-percent non-issue.
If it DOES matter to someone, then the other person not respecting it isn’t annoying his or her partner because it’s an extra chore. It’s seriously, fundamentally, emotionally damaging the person who discover they married someone PURPOSEFULLY UNWILLING to perform small acts of love and kindness for them.
After a few thousand times, the relationship ends. And the entire time, one or both of them never saw it coming and couldn’t figure out why.
It’s tragic.
And it’s why I write this stuff down.
Very well said!
if some women don’t understand your point, then it really leaves minimal hope for men to get it! so sad
I get what you mean. Be in a relationship with someone who has similar likes & dislikes as you. Someone you can understand and understands you. Sometimes I wonder how 2 people ever got together in the first place. Did they not take the time to get to know each other? Or did they that big mistake so many have made”I’ll change them after I marry them”. Big mistake that never ends well.
Curious – if you know it drives your partner “a little nuts”, why continue to do it? It sounds like they’ve already made it clear to you that they don’t like cleaning up after you and yet you’re waiting for it to “become an issue” before you change your behaviour. Why not change it now before it becomes an issue?
My boyfriend, that I just moved in with, and I had to have a similar conversation. While he is a wonderfully helpful person that works really hard he is also *not the neatest person alive. He helps when he thinks about it (once a month, sometimes week) and even though I reasoned with myself that it would be me that cleaned most often it started to weigh on me emotionally. When I finally made sense of it I realized that I felt underappreciated (also like glass by the sink wife). To not put the glass in the sink immediately is one thing, I admit. I actually do that myself. To forget about the glass and inconsequently suggest that your wife is the house cleaner so leave it for her to get to is something totally different (which is what my situation was). After so many instances I started feeling and thinking, “he left this out because he thinks I’m the only one who has to do chores,” then eventually it built up until finally seeing “the glass by the sink” led to the thought, “he must not think my time is as important as his. He expects me to fulfill the half of his life that the past designated to women (caring for children, cooking, cleaning), he doesn’t actually see me as his equal.” That is something I created on my own obviously, but without anyone to counteract it that was the inevitable outcome. When the response was, “what are you talking about, it’s just a glass?” Not only had he taken away my ability to be right, but he made it clear that he also doesn’t think I’m reasonable or logical. I had nothing at that point, except the knowledge that it’s possible that glass by the sink will never understand me or understand how undervalued I felt as a person altogether. In the end, I finally was able to make sense to my boyfriend by finding articles like this one and a few others that broke down the situation bit by bit, but without the help of another guy or article breaking it down, I would have possibly been forced to move out like wife of glass by the sink.
Well said Kristen
Reblogged this on Carrots in My Carryon and commented:
While I’ll acknowledge that this is only one side of what can be a very complicated story, I also can attest to the volumes of truth in here.
Read it with the mindset of self-improvement vs. finger-pointing and you’ll see it, too.
Sounds like to me she wasn’t happy with her own life only to make it look like things he did wrong was the reasoning behind her frustrations.So sorry,so sad.Sounds like she’s the one needing help.
I find this article nothing short of victim blaming. “The master hit me because I made the master mad…don’t make the master mad”.
You will not find the guy equivalent to this article, in terms of petty and pathetic excuses. Instead, you will find “I left her because she denied me sex over the life of our marriage, continually abused me in a verbal sense, and berated me at every turn. Also, she became infuriated when I left a glass out that was going to be used throughout the day”.
The expectation of a male to simply take it as his place is disturbing. The cost of being a part of a family is the sexual and emotional freedom of the male. Your hobbies, friends, and interests are no longer relevant.
Sigh. You missed the point. YOU, as a male, find this to be “petty and pathetic excuses”. As a woman, let me explain it to you: I am very clean. My motto is that everything should be touched ONCE, just once. Which means you pick it up and instantly put it away…don’t do it later, or set it aside. Finish it, put it away. I understand my husband is not like me. He is much messier. Most of the time, I gladly clean up after him with a smile on my face. I am HAPPY to have him to clean up after, because it means he’s here and he chose me, as I chose him. My husband absolutely does NOT follow my finish it/touch it once personal motto. However, he does know how important it is to me. So when he remembers (which isn’t often, since it’s not at the top of his priorities), he rinses out the empty container and immediately puts it in the correct recycling bin instead of leaving it on the counter, hardening, for me to have to clean out later. He usually forgets, and I clean it up. But when he DOES remember, I am smiling ear to ear and I praise him for it, not because he’s my pet or child, but because I know he did that FOR ME. He doesn’t care. And I get that and accept him as he is. But he knows that I DO care. So if one of us doesn’t care, and the other does, it’s nice to sometimes actually think about the other person and do it the way they’d like, just because you love them. Do I expect him to always be perfect and clean up? Of course not. Do I know that he respects the time and effort that I take to clean up the house and take care of the children? You bet! Because, sometimes, he goes that extra mile to separate his clothes into the correct laundry hamper, or to close the shower curtain so it doesn’t get moldy. He’s not perfect, and (sane) women don’t expect that. But we need to know that we’re respected, and that the work we do isn’t dismissed as “petty and pathetic”. When you do it all day, every day, it certainly isn’t petty and pathetic. It’s exhausting. And knowing that you have your husband’s respect and that he helps out when his male brain reminds him to makes it all worthwhile.
As for your comment that “the cost of being a part of a family is the sexual and emotional freedom of the male. Your hobbies, friends, and interests are no longer relevant.” Women ALSO give up sexual and emotional freedom in marriage. That’s not gender exclusive. Everyone misses freedom sometimes. It’s whether or not it’s worth it that matters. In my case, it certainly is. And for hobbies, friends, and interests no longer being relevant? My husband enjoys all the same hobbies, friends, and interests as before we dated. BUT, I expect to come first. If I’m sick and can’t take care of the children, damn right he’s not playing video games all day! Does he usually play video games, chill with friends, and go to the batting cages? Sure. As I also continue to have my hobbies, friends, and interests. But the second I get a phone call that my husband is at his wit’s end with the children, I’m putting down my book or calling it an early night with my friends. I go to my husband. Because HE is my priority, as I am his.
Even though I’m a woman, it bothers me that society places so much more on what women want, than men. If she is willing to fight about a stupid glass, her priorities are out of order. As women, we need to learn that just because our emotions are stronger, it doesn’t make us always right. If we expect our husbands to love us unconditionally, we should respect them unconditionally too.
I would get divorced and marry you…Wish more women thought of it as 50/50 rather than the whole nine yards for them, THEN they will think about reciprocating it….
Holy crap. This man deserves a Nobel Prize. I onlt wish he coul offer the same insight in reverse. Wow.
I wish me ex husband and I had read this article together decades ago
Very well written, and a sobering reminder to look for opportunities to make our wives feel loved because it matters to THEM, rather than questioning why it matters at all.
Thank you for this article!
I really really liked how you put certain parts in bold! It really helped my ADD brain get through the read. Even tho I wanted to finish it sometimes my brain just says nope that’s long enough, move on. Haha
Thanks again
Chad
You nailed it! Of course, it can also be helpful for both parties to identify their 2-3 BIG “Need It To Be This Way” things and focus on those. There are numerous benefits to this:
It helps the “offender” have a reasonable chance at success – they can focus on the critical items. It also helps the “offended” better see effort and progress. Emotions are funny things, and most folks don’t HONESTLY give credit for “partner started doing 3 out of 10 things better” – especially if it happens to be the 3 things least irritating to that person!
It helps BOTH partners separate out the stuff that really bothers them vs the things that are just being done differently (and often “different” registers as “irritating” if the 2-3 Big Items are being done wrong). And getting to that “Big 2-3” can mean admitting that you don’t care about shaving detritus in the bathroom sink but by GOD the toothbrushes must be properly stored! Well, that can be a little embarrassing, but it definitely builds intimacy and improves the relationship’s chances to survive and thrive 😀
We’re all human. We each have odd notions of How Things Should Be. Owning up to that and working on how to respect it in ourselves and another is a lifelong effort.
While I appreciate the sentiment behind this and agree with the point you’re making, your “Men Can Do Things” section is kind of condescending to women. The way you say, “Men design and build skyscrapers, and take hearts and other human organs from dead people and replace the corresponding failing organs inside of living people, and then those people stay alive afterward”, implies men are the only ones capable of doing that. I understand that you’re trying to say that if men are smart enough to do all those things, they are smart enough to compromise and work with their partners, however, another message is also implied there. For an article about respecting your wife, it’s disappointing to read that.
It doesn’t imply that at all. You’re the second to say it, so other people must think it, but we won’t come to consensus, I’m afraid.
Context matters. Always.
Here are random examples of amazing things men can do and have done. THUS, men should also be able to do a better job managing his relationship.
I’m sorry I didn’t do a better job conveying that, but you are reading things which simply aren’t there.
Of course context matters which is why I understood what you were trying to say and why you had that section there. I am also not saying you intend to imply it. It’s one thing to say men AND women (or even “people”) are capable but you didn’t. My point was that regardless of context, the words you used seemingly said men can do it while implying women cannot.
No, Mags, saying “both men and women” would have diluted the context. The context being that the article is talking about men who passively behave as if they are not capable, men who leave it all up to the women, etc. These men are what we’re talking about, so therefore it would not make sense to say “men and women in this particular context. Because we’re not talking about the women.
Or, if you will, compare it to me telling my 7 year old daughter that she is perfectly capable of cleaning up after herself. I’m not going to say “Lots of people are capable of cleaning up after themselves” in spite of the fact that it is true. I’m going to say something directed specifically at her like “7 year olds are very capable of cleaning up after themselves.” Because she acts like “I’m too young to clean up after myself!” I will specifically point to her age.
In my example, the context is the 7-year old because she’s acting like she’s too young/incapable of cleaning up. In Matt’s example, he’s specifically talking about men who behave as if they aren’t capable and he is specifically reminding them that they ARE.
Absolutely the truth!
This was articulated beautifully.
Reblogged this on Blissfully Single and commented:
So while I remain “blissfully single,” this definitely struck a chord. Very well written. I relate, on so many levels.
Thank you thank you a million times for this! My husband and I are going through a particularly rough patch right now and I’ve been feeling incredibly alone and lost. I’ve tried, and failed, to help him understand where I’m coming from. He has a particularly busy job, and most days he leaves by 7 am and doesn’t get home until after 8 pm. What he forgets is that my life is also incredibly busy and that “taking care of him” would be his mother’s responsibility, not mine. While I’m understanding of his work responsibilities, I’m not understanding of the fact that he believes he no longer has any responsibilities at home. It’s been years since he grocery shopped or made a meal or cleaned anything. I’ve become more than just a wife – I’m also now mommy and maid, which makes me feel like shit.
Don’t get me wrong. My husband is easily the most amazing person I’ve ever known, and I love him beyond words. But it’s feeling like that’s not reciprocated because of his (in)actions that’s slowly destroying our relationship. I’m going to share this post with him in hopes that the male perspective you’ve shared will resonate with him!
I’m with you: a glass is never going to be important to me. Healthy communication is important. Compromise is important. Loving gestures are important. But asking a man to change is disrespectful to HIM. And it’s controlling. You’re better off without that nonsense.
It’s not asking a man to change who he is. It’s asking a man to be considerate of what’s important to you. That’s something everyone in a relationship should be able to do, gender irrelevant.
I think that the big picture here is to make sure the other person’s needs are met and at the same time, trust your partner to meet yours. This is how my marriage works, and it’s working really well. When I keep focused on his needs and fulfill them, and he does exactly the same, we acknowledge and respect each other and we don’t take each other for granted. We found this to work for us after quite a few years when things were not going well at all. It’s been amazing for the past two years…I am really sorry for your situation ?. Did you try marriage counseling?
Just seems easier to not get married, to be honest.
Trade offs, either way. Not getting married is a perfectly acceptable way to avoid divorce.
And keep your wealth, monetarily, and exceed in your line of work, and keep your testosterone levels regulated. And remain capable of keeping a reasonable level of disorder in your kitchen, if your prerogative is as such.
Not trying to make a case, but if this is the climate of expectations for men….why do they get married now?
I think the practical answer is that most people crave companionship. Also, sex is nice. And while marriage isn’t required for that, conventional wisdom is that it’s safer (and in that respect, better) in a committed monogamous relationship.
Children are huge. I have a hard time believing there’s much of a crowd selling single parenting over co-parenting as the optimum model for raising kids.
If you don’t break the marriage, having a partner to help with stuff is really nice. Sometimes they contribute a lot of money too.
Lastly, we are all going to get old one day. Worn down. Less attractive. Less mobile. Maybe even sick.
Do you really want to be the lonely old guy watching Matlock reruns with no one who loves you in your twilight years?
Single is an option. I’ve been single three years. It has its perks.
I was often peeved by the frustrations of daily married life.
But I’m not afraid to say that, objectively speaking, especially with a child involved, marriage is better than single.
For me.
Now that I have all these new concerns and experiences and boundaries, I’m extremely choosy about who I let get close to me.
A second marriage may happen. But it’s hard to imagine it being soon. And it’s essentially because of what you’re saying… The juice doesn’t exactly feel worth the squeeze.
Thanks for being part of the conversation, Maxwell.
Reblogged this on Like a scream but sort of silent.
I really did leave my husband for leaving dirty dishes by the kitchen sink.
I can’t even begin to understand how you’ve managed to put my exact thoughts and feelings into this article. I started crying as I read at just how perfect you’ve explained what I tried so many times to say in my exact situation, but mostly my tears come from wishing I’d seen this much sooner to pass along to him (but he’s the one that sent it to me– it finally made him understand why I left). Thank you so much for this bittersweet gift.
When I read this article I laughed because ijust had this discussion the other day.
My step father does it cause he is old school, a woman does that, a man does this.
My wife does it cause shes a lawyer and im in the culinary industry. She grew up not waking dishes. Im a neat freak so I have to clean. We have come to the agreement that if shes not done with her glass, leave it by your side of the bed.
If your partner doesnt get it take something that they love and leave it on the floor every day. If th hey pic it up put right bsck on the floor and say, what’s the big deal. People care about things that mean something to them!!
I may be in the minority here, but, as a wife, this article was super helpful in helping me to know why it’s important for ME to do little things for my husband that show him that I respect and appreciate HIM. And I’ll also try and help him to understand me. It’s totally a 2-way street, isn’t it? : )
I felt the same way. And I also appreciated it for helping me to understand the man’s perspective before he truly grasps why woman are upset.
My thoughts also.
yup.
I agree!!! ^^^ I could have easily written this article myself, and titled it “My husband left me, because I left dishes by the sink.” I wish both my ex & I could have read this 5 years ago when there was still time to “get it.” My ex told me when he was leaving all the ways I didn’t appreciate it, respect him, “hear” him… and I was STUNNED because I thought I was a dutiful & devoted wife. Who did everything she was asked and managed everything so well etc… I was very happy!!! We were married 22 years and I had NO idea that I was gradually tearing him down every time I “disrespected” him with tiny little actions such as leaving a dish by the sink. Among other many other things that went unnoticed or were dismissed by ME. I do feel like he has take responsibility for the part he played and he did leave me for someone he was having an affair with … someone he sought out because he wasn’t getting what he really needed at home. I don’t think it’s fair that he didn’t make me aware of these issues BEFORE he began to outside the marriage. He admits he didn’t want to cause a fight or create more tension and that he didn’t believe I would “believe” him enough to change my behavior so he never spoke up. That is on HIM. I would have gladly made changes to make him happy, and to save our marriage!! But he didn’t even give me the chance. I digress, my point is; it goes both ways. Men & Women each need to really put the needs of their partner first and forget WHY something is important to the other person, forget being RIGHT… if it is really something so trivial, why would you NOT do something so small if it goes a long way to help your partner feel loved by you. Why would we deliberately and intentionally dig our heels in, and contribute to strife, if there doesn’t need to be strife? Well written friend. I DO know that I learned a LOT about my own mistakes through my divorce and I know that whenever I find Mr. Right-for-me… I will be a MUCH better partner.
Well said. This could of been written by me, after 25 yrs. of marriage.
Yrs it is by it comes natural for women and we pretty much do things out of out love for them…but if we dont feel they respect us as he was talking about we start loosing that motivation to want to do this things to them because now we feel used and not respected and loved. He is so right on!!!!!
I shared this with my husband. I’ve tried over and over to explain this to him and it never gets through. However, this is from a man’s point of view. He’s always saying “yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ll get it done.” Yet never does it. Picking up items at the store, rising dishes, filling out a simple form that takes 10 minutes, whatever. It’s true what you said: I just can’t trust him to complete anything. If I could, I would. But I’m a SAHM to a 4 month preemie and an autistic 3 year old. I hatebabysitting a grown man as well. I don’t think he truly realizes that all this little things he doesn’t do that he says he will, add up and make my life that much harder. Why do I get angry over “every little thing?” It’s because it’s that much more I have to take care of. I’ve told him that I feel like a caretaker because if the situation were reversed, most cases I wouldn’t get scolded because I have enough going on. But he doesn’t make an effort to help me. Special ed teachers, doctor appointments, helping the 3 year old with speech myself, constantly nursing the baby 15 hours of the day(not an exaggeration. I’ve timed it.), dealing with the debt collectors, texting grocery/item lists, keeping the kids safe from each other, cleaning up cat vomit while having to prove myself to my husband every day. “This isn’t working. I’ve done this and that. No luck.” He doesn’t realize that even though I’ve tried to fix it, him doing the same things I just tried, to validate the problem says to me “I don’t believe you. I have to see it for myself. Mainly because you don’t know what you’re doing and I’m smarter than you.” He tells me how I should be with the kids, though I’ve got the one well behaved (the other is too young) and he’s only spending 3 hours a day with them while I’m all day and obviously what I’m already doing is working. I need paycheck stubs, proof of insurance and a copy of his driver’s license for paperwork. Says he’ll keep doing it, though I’ve reminded him once a week for 2 months.
Again. Everything. I’m hoping this article from a man’s perspective will open his eyes a bit. I hate being his mother….
You’re not his mother nor his wife. You’re his victim. He appears to neither appreciate nor love you. Life evolves around him, and you are responsible for rearing, caring and maintaining his family. He’s just there to have a place in which to come home. I’m sorry to tell you all this, but have a feeling you’ll gut it out to the bitter end.
Why isn’t it working? You continue to do everything w/o his help. Remember if it isn’t an inconvenience to him then it won’t matter. It doesn’t matter how many times you nag him to do something he knows in the end you are going to do anyways. You need to give him something to do that will affect him and if he drops the ball well then he only has himself to blame. Remember, take care of yourself and take care of your kids; if he doesn’t figure it out you need to find a good counselor, go by yourself and with your husband (if he will go) and make a decision then.
Thank you. I needed to read this, as a woman who has acted this way to my husband. It’s not a perfect copy of our story, but it’s close enough to help me understand where he was coming from when our marriage was much more unpleasant.
What ended up happening is he lowered his expectations and I raised my empathy and ability to communicate. Truth is, I was hurt by how disappointed he was by me. I felt I was trying really hard but that nothing I did was enough for him. But really what it came down to was that I didn’t make the “little” things a big enough priority in my life, didn’t get them done when he wanted them done…and he got upset. It doesn’t matter if being upset is founded or not. Loving someone is about doing the little things for them no matter if it makes sense to you or not.
I know the right thing to do is to at least pull my own weight, which I did. The next step is to do the little things my husband feels are important, which I have been doing now, but didn’t in the past…and the next step after that is to go above and beyond his expectations. I hope someday to get to the final step. He says he’s proud to be my husband, but I don’t know if I’m worthy of that, yet.
I hope your husband can one day strive to be the kind of man you’re proud of. I don’t know your whole story, but my advice would be to encourage him, rather than scolding and nagging him.
Also, I don’t know what language he speaks. My husband responded when I was sincere, and when I allowed myself to show my hurt, instead of shrouding it in anger and frustration. I had a hard time telling him what I was truly feeling (sometimes I didn’t know, myself), but when I did, he listened…. He didn’t change right away, but patience in pain yields some impressive results.
Why can’t he lave the glass out if he plans to use it again? Why does her wanting it put away matter more than his not wanting it put away? Why can’t they agree to do what makes sense and that doing so is the ultimate in partnership?
Bending to his or her will because it doing so acts as a proxy for love is ridiculous. If there isn’t enough alternative evidence of love then no change in attitude toward someone else’s matters. You’re already doomed and it has nothing to do with seemingly irrelevant but deeper compromises.
In this case, for the use of clearer pronouns (but they’re reversible reversible), him always saying “ok – if it matters to her, ill do it” when it also matters to him is how people get walked on.
Yo, you totally missed the point. Read again and open your mind. It’s about having an other-centered loving mindset, not about winning a will-war. The will-war approach was what made him lose his marriage.
I understand your point of view and how you don’t think it’s right for one person to “bend” to their partner’s will because love. And, I do think that it is a two way street and both couples have to take the time to understand each other. Maybe if the fight was about finding a new job or moving then most definitely doing what your partner says “as a proxy for love” without thought to your own decisions/choices is not very healthy.
But the whole point of the article (from what I got anyways) is the triviality of what a seemingly small action did to his relationship. The thing is, the glass doesn’t matter to him, but it matters to her. He doesn’t have some strong conviction to leave the glass out, rather he doesn’t care about it and doesn’t understand why his wife does and why she’s making such a big deal. Like he says, it’s “four seconds” of his life. He sees it as so minuscule in the scale of things, that he doesn’t get why his wife is ruining their peace for it. He didn’t take the time to get what it meant to her.
Therefore, it’s not necessarily succumbing to the other’s demands for “love”, and whether who’s opinion is better/stronger/”more right” than the other; rather, understanding, recognizing, listening, and validating the things your partner asks of you instead of trivializing it and saying it doesn’t matter (because maybe to you it doesn’t but to them it does, and loving your partner enough to respect these types of things is also what I gathered from what the writer was trying to say). It’s about spending that time trying to see it from their side rather than trying to get them to see it from yours. It’s also about showing love through actions (not necessarily using actions in place of love).
Either way, I think it’s an interesting article that gives a lot of perspective on relationships.
“If you don’t do it my way, no matter how trivial the task, then you don’t love me.”
Exactly! Nicely written!
Well said Jonathan. May I add that the list was seemingly endless. If it was the dish by the sink, OK. How to load the dishwasher. Every detail of housekeeping. Wanted the bookshelves dusted. Did that and at the same time so much more. “Why couldn’t you JUST DUST!” which translated that the time I spent on doing the whole room should have been spent on the rest of that endless list she had in her head. It was the same for our sons. No win. Never good enough. Never enough. In the end, we dealt with it as “control trips”. If only it had been “just” housework. How to talk, when to talk, if to talk. I don’t remember it like that at the beginning. I think she would say that she had been “care taking” and just got tired of it. We don’t know why we fall in love, even less why we fall out of love. “Irreconcilable differences” and moved on.
I can relate. 🙁
I do agree that if you always bend, you’ll get walked on and I also agree that what matters to her shouldn’t be more important than what matters to him, but I think what he’s illustrating here is that it *doesn’t* matter to him but he *still* wouldn’t do it knowing it mattered to his wife, and that’s what drives the wedge. It may be hard to see in terms of a dirty dish, but in the big picture if something matters a lot to one partner and not at all to another, it seems indifferent (at best) or spiteful (at worst) for the one who doesn’t care either way to not respect the wishes of the one who cares.
Exactly! Marriage is about compromise and it goes both ways. When it doesn’t, someone is getting taken advantage of.
Or you could be a man and grow up. Maybe learn something? It’s your laziness and lack of responsibility to your duties as a man that led to your divorce.
I would never leave someone for something like this. Not if they were kind and decent. Sloppiness to me,can be overlooked as long. Seems like there just has to be more than the glass, like maybe just say it, she doesn’t love him.
It’s an analogy. Clearly it wasn’t just about the glass. But it is a very simple analogy that makes a strong point about validating your partner’s feelings and ensuring you consider how you can work in partnership with them.
“Right or wrong, he would never feel hurt if the same situation were reversed so he doesn’t think his wife SHOULD hurt. It’s like, he doesn’t think she has the right to (and then use it as a weapon against him) because it feels unfair.”
Very well stated. The whole article really.
I think this statement is often the problem in a nutshell. And can not only apply for emotional issues but quite often for physical ones as well. And I think one of the issues with this for women – a BIG issue with this for women – is that women are expected to do the opposite. If their husbands share something with them that is different than they experience, they are supposed to understand and accept it.
It adds a lot more bitterness to the situation for most women I know who have experienced it.
I can remember how I used to get angry at my husband because we would talk at night in bed and he would fall asleep in the middle of it. I took it as a sign that he was completely uninterested in my conversation. When he explained to me that he literally could not control when he fell asleep, I took him at his word, EVEN THOUGH this is completely different than my experience. And he was right – I saw him actually fall asleep while standing up more than once, through our marriage. The man could not stay away when tired.
But when the shoe was on the other foot, totally different reaction. I cannot fall asleep easily, with lots of poor health that causes pain and insomnia and other issues with falling to sleep easily. If I was very exhausted, he would often wake me up to tell me something – a sentence or two – and that would be enough to keep me awake for the rest of the night. I had SO many conversations with him over how difficult it was to fall asleep, and to please not wake me up unless it was an emergency if I managed to fall asleep.
His response was that I wasn’t trying hard enough to fall asleep, because if I was, then I wouldn’t have any trouble. Over ten years of marriage and he never once could accept that I had a different experience than his own, even though he wanted me to understand his position.
This is not enough to break a marriage. But when the majority of what one feels, thinks, and does is treated like this? Like it is only valid if it makes sense to the husband (or that it makes sense to what the husband thinks is normal for ‘women,’ like putting on makeup)? That breaks a marriage.
Thank you for such a clearly expressed summation of the concept. It resonated so much, truly.
Reblogged this on Devyne Delphi.
This is a wonderful article! I find it very honest that this man-already divorced – can look back and admit his faults. Not saying that his exwife was perfect by the way but understanding his own downfalls. We can not change others, but by changing ourselves others will often choose to as well. For all the bad comments about how men r people too- there is just as many, maybe more? “Teachers” out there telling women how to appreciate and treat their husbands with the respect they also deserve. Great reading. Thankyou
Matt, I really enjoyed the article, and felt you nailed it. Some people in the comments “got it”, and some people didn’t, thinking it was all about the “stupid glass on the counter”, and “how asinine to end a marriage over a glass”. If’s NOT ABOUT THE GLASS. Gosh, I feel like I’m in The Matrix, in the Oracle’s apartment: “There is no Spoon”, lol. It’s about both people’s expectations of each other, and what makes them feel like a partner in a marriage, and what makes them feel like they’re being disrespected, actions done that make them feel like they don’t matter to the other person. Consistent misunderstandings, and willful righteousness (I’m sticking by my guns, even though it makes my partner feel unloved, unwanted, and unappreciated, because dammit I’M RIGHT) is pretty much the sure pathway to an unhappy marriage and eventual divorce. And this goes BOTH ways: it’s not just about a woman’s expectations of a man, it is also the man’s expectations of the woman. IMHO, I feel that we go through these hard times, and hopefully learn more about ourselves, wake us up, make us take a look around and think about other people as well as ourselves. It sounds like you learned something from this very difficult time, and hopefully take what you learned into the next stage/relationship/whatever. Good on you for thinking everything through, and not saying “That b**ch ended our marriage over a stupid glass”.
This is a great piece of advice for this common scenario; nice job! However what if it’s not just about a single irrational dirty glass pet peeve, but they are never ending irrational rules she requires and no matter how much you do, its never enough to gain and feel that respect you’ve been working so hard for?
I agree!
Then talk to your wife and tell her that. The point is to seek to understand not the “list”. Help her understand your feelings too.
Well you need to be able to look at it and decide whether it is irrational to you, or completely irrational and designed to manipulate and control you. Narcissism is real and if you’re married to a narcissist who spends her time trying to control and manipulate you then you might need some help to get out of that relationship. But if you’re not being manipulated and controlled and you just have some bad habits you’re ignoring despite your wife’s protestations that you pull your finger out, well, that is what this article is about.
The writer of this article is one huge mangina. Your ex wife divorced you because you did not have a set of balls big enough to lead her and be the man in your relationship as evidenced by your white-knight article.
“Lead her”. Scary that people like you exist, bro.
lol, you gonna have a fun time in relationships. Girls will leave you for a guy you’re scared exists.
Let’s change the word girls in the my last comment to Women; Women will leave you for the type of guy you’re scared exists.
My wife and I have been over this for years. Probably 15… In December she finally broke. There was more to it than dishes in or by the sink. It was about me missing appointments, and not taking care of myself properly. (I have diabetes, liver disease and take a lot of meds).
Her words were, “I don’t know if I can keep giving like this. I can’t love you any more than you love yourself. If you don’t care, how can I?” Without saying it I knew she was about ready to leave for good.
It’s the most terrified I have ever been in 20 years with her. We had a long talk that day and many tears were shed. I suggested counselling and she agreed as long as I followed through and organized everything.
I did and we/I have seeing a counsellor for a good month now.
Eye opening, learning so much about the ‘why’ of what we do. You know what?
Were gonna make it.
Reblogged this on Love My Bright Light and commented:
This is amazing
I’m a woman, and I often “forget” to put dishes in the dishwasher, so it’s most definitely not just a guy thing. In my case, I’m groggily multitasking in the morning (my least favorite time of day): making breakfast, getting the dogs pottied and crated, getting dressed and groomed for work, printing up handouts for my class, and then I open the dishwasher and it’s not “receiving,” because it’s still filled with clean dishes from last night. So, do I have five extra minutes to put all the clean dishes away so I can put in the dirty ones from breakfast in? Sometimes the answer is no. I’ve usually got several balls in the air in the morning, and that one extra one is going to make the rest come crashing down. My husband has got the same issue in the morning, so it’s not a big issue for us (we both wish we both were more organized and more alert in the morning, but we are who we are).
I’m guessing that if dishes end up being the straw that breaks the camel’s back in a marriage, then there are indeed other issues. It’s true (as you say) that arguments are often about something that isn’t overtly stated. Context is everything. If a person feels respected and supported in the big ways, little things like dirty dishes matter a lot less.
It is about understanding and respecting each other. it isn’t about who is right or wrong. It is about communication. Pure and simple but we hardly do what is pure in simple!
I think you glossed over something in this article. Not only was she resenting you each time you left the drinking glass on the counter, but also each time she did something against her nature because she cared for you, the resentment grew.
I hate it that my husband put the tp on upside down, so I change it. But when I unbuckle my seatbelt a certain way because he’s worried the way I would naturally do it will ruin it, I get mad. I know what he likes, why can’t he do the same?
Reblogged this on MaryMarvella and commented:
I could not have said it better! It goes both ways, but some spouses feel they can’t change and want the mate to make all the changes. STRANGE!
Perfect.
It’s all the little things that add up… A woman’s shoulders are only so strong!
Reblogged this on musingsmelodies.
This can be fine if the woman understands that its a two way street. For instance, it drives many men crazy when their partner takes two hours to get ready, and makes them late. Taking that much time on microscopic details of one’s appearance while someone else is waiting for you is not just annoying, it’s a sign of disrespect. My time is valuable to me, and I show respect to others by arriving on time. When you don’t, you imply that your time is more valuable than mine. And by making me late, you make disrespect someone else’s time.
The best way to handle this, I think, is for partners to trade favors. I won’t leave the dishes out, and in return, you’ll give yourself enough time to be ready when it’s time to go. And if you’re not ready to your satisfaction, you’ll just have to deal with the HORRENDOUS embarrassment of having eyebrows that aren’t perfectly plucked, or whatever insignificant detail you deem more important than my time.
Oh honey, if you married a woman who spends 14 hours a week, or 730 hours a YEAR on her appearance (minimum, because we’re not adding in exercise hours or hairdressing/manicure/pedicure/dentist appointments), then you married a particular type of woman. And you are enjoying the benefit of having that lovely-looking creature on your arm when you go out, so best you just appreciate that and realise how much work is put into looking good – for YOU.
Her VANITY is not necessarily for HIS benefit. That’s an unjustified assumption.
Joal guille, well said.
If she left you for that, she’s the juvenile/irresponsible one! Good riddance! You now have the chance to find yourself a mature LADY!
You didn’t read the article….
I believe it.. I left my husband because although he thought he was a nice guy, and still tries to project that image, he didn’t care. His apathy led to taking me for granted and to hurting me.
I’ve since met someone who cares who I am and it’s made all the difference in the world. What is more beautiful in life than a partner who loves you enough to figure out what matters to you and then tries to do, or not do, those things?
The man I’m with now isn’t perfect, but he puts in effort where it matters to me. My heart melts when I see him trying because I know it’s not something he would do for himself. He puts energy into loving in ways that are particular to me. I try to do the same for him too.
Reblogged this on Life does not come with instructions!.
This is so on target!!! It goes exactly the same way for the wife to husband. It’s shrunk into that little verse in Ephesians: “Submit one to another” that precedes all the specifics to husband and wife. That line is given to both parties in a marriage, in the family of God, in life. And it does take two people doing this to truly have a happy mutual relationship. (although even one being sacrificial like this makes everything so much better).
Great post, Matt. I’m surprised at the criticism in these comments. I think there are several core truths that come out in what you’ve written. Very helpful for a man to try to think through that, to help us learn how to live with our wives in a more understanding way. Thanks!
Thank you for saying so.
I don’t know where you’re from for sure, but as an American, I’ve gotten familiar with incredibly educated and thoughtful people disagreeing on stuff.
One really smart person thinks President Obama is a great American president, and a different smart person thinks he’s a Manchurian candidate who secretly hates the country.
I write this stuff with “people like me” in mind.
It makes sense that some would try to pick it apart and generate conflict between the genders rather than attempt to bridge the divide between husbands and wives.
Thank you for the kind words.
Be careful with your words! I mention this because there’s no reason to use divisive language, given that people who disagree with you may or may not be misogynists or hardcore feminists. It’s irrelevant to the discussion; the kind of person who would insult you or your ex-wife based on what you’ve said here is a jerk. Plain and simple. There’s civil disagreement from most readers, but don’t use base name calling like some of these commenters did. It takes away from your message.
I agreed with everything in your article and appreciate how you’ve articulated this longstanding gripe my relationship that I have tried and failed to explain to my husband for years. Thank you, from a hardcore feminist. 😉
Sound advice. I accept. And thank you.
Just so you know, the equivalent of misogynist for female is misandrist (man-hater.) Feminism is generally misunderstood 🙂
MGTOW and never look back.
Why is it that I feel like I’m the wife and my wife is the male in this scenario? This left me feeling disturbed. I worry about the labels society puts on us, because I am a male who likes to keep the house clean and naggs to his wife when she leaves the dishes by the sink. Just like the male in this story, my wife has in fact told me “I don’t tell you when you do things that annoy me”. To put things into perspective, I work and go to med. school full time and she is a stay at home mom who takes care of our 9 month old. Why is it that a male can’t be emotionally connected to the cleanliness or tidiness of his home?
Sorry about that. I write in sweeping generalities. I might have done so more thoughtfully had I known millions would read it. Usually, it’s just a few hundred. This is all very new to me.
I write frequently about marriage. I write about what husbands, in my estimation, often get wrong, based on what I remember in my marriage, combined with a bunch of other stuff like books and conversations with other people.
So I’m always generically writing about husbands.
It is not intended to EXCLUDE anyone. Only to “speak” to all of the people who can identify with me or my stories.
That’s obviously not everyone. Thanks for taking time to comment.
This has been my life for almost ten years now and its so nice to see it on my screen. I hope my partner reads this and understands, as its not coming directly from me.
This is why single moms and divorced women are the easiest women on the planet. It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
If you have ever loaded the dish washer and been scolded because it was not loaded correctly it turns this article upside down and gives a bit of insight to everyone!
I also agree with that. There’s a line. It gets crossed in both directions.
Every day I would need to move or find a place in the kitchen. Just to wash my hands or make a cup of tea. I would be told, “I’m going to get to those tomorrow.” I finally replied, “I’ll consider coming back when tomorrow comes.”
Do you have any objection to my sharing this post on my website- cutreralaw.com? I will include a link to your site. As an experienced divorce attorney, I’m very familiar with the reasons relationships suffer and often fail and this post really connects with many stories I’ve heard!
I’d be flattered. Thank you very much for asking.
This article hit the nail on the head. I am also divorced because I didn’t want to be his mom either. I always asked…”don’t make more work for me” I worked full time. ..he was disabled ( convnced himelf he couldn’t work but really could have). 2 kids …one Autistic….I did everything a wife and mom did. He did dished and garbage. Only. Nothing else. Sat in a chair and watched TV most of the time. Left dishes all over the place. Huge lack of RESPECT for me. I left. Took the kids. Never planned on getting a divorce. Sometimes you just have to give up and move on. He definitely gets it now.
Yes! It’s that she’s been doing most of the things that need to be done for herself and the kids and the husband, so making her have to add anything to that is hurtful. Love this! Of course this depends on your own situation. This is all a two way street. When we are pulling equal loads then it doesn’t matter who puts whose stuff up. But when one is doing more (one is sitting and relaxing while the other has yet to sit all day) then the one relaxing should put up their own damn glass. It’s not “Oh well since you’re cleaning here’s another thing for you to do.” That’s where it becomes disrespectful.
Hey Matt, lovely article. Even as a “hardcore feminist” I can appreciate what you’re saying and actually have sat in different times of my life on both sides of that particular fence.
For me, the most damaging thing to happen to a relationship is the erosion of respect, and when one partner is doing the basic things that every adult should be able to perform in their day-to-day life, that does destroy the very heart of the relationship. While one partner enjoys being “looked after” and handing off menial tasks to their partner, the other partner slowly loses respect as 1. They feel themselves being disrespected by being handed all the scut work in a relationship and 2. The other person is demonstrating that they are incapable of taking care of even the most basic and fundamental necessities of living.
I actually recall one relationship where I really enjoyed spending Saturday mornings getting up and cleaning the house from top to bottom – together. It was a bit of a bonding time, we’d blast music and make fun of each other and everything would be done in a couple of hours, then we’d kick back with brunch and a wine. Good times. 🙂
This entire thing just makes me want to face palm.
Look… I get it. Women want to be equal, women want to feel respected by their husbands. Yada, yada, yada. BUT! One person cannot set an example for all relationships, and this makes a poor example of what it’s meant for. A problem as simple as not putting dishes in the sink is no reason to throw away an entire relationship. There is way more going on, not just little things like this. Guys do not think like this. I have never met a man who actually thinks “I should automatically be respected when we exchange vows, so I’m going to leave my dishes here and not care.” The respect should have been there before the vows were ever exchanged. Trust and love should have been solid before making the jump into marital life.
Men usually do not pay attention, or they are planning to use the dish again and forget it’s there, etc. Why do you think wives have the reputation of nagging? It’s a partnership, so talk about your problems! Most relationships fail because of lacking communication, and this “story” is a good example of that very thing.
Not every relationship works out. Not everyone get the happily ever after. If you want a relationship to succeed, you HAVE to work at it.
People need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves and work on your problems, not bad mouth your spouses on the Internet because you don’t think you’re respected enough, because it is just as disrespectful to do so.
You must have read a totally different article than I did. I didn’t see him badmouthing his partner at all.
I was referring to the comments, not the article.
Reblogged this on The Crazy Nigerian and commented:
Seriously? Oh man…
More American male self loathing. Get grip, she didn’t leave you because the glass. She left you because she doesn’t find you masculine, sexy, intriguing anymore. Rather she looks at you as some sort of roommate or quasi brother. Start being a man and she won’t complain about this trial junk.
I divorced my husband for exactly the reason that the article states. He would not do anything that mattered to me….I wound up not doing the only thing that mattered to him. I was his mother. I got tired of nagging. I felt alone and unappreciated. I thought he would not take care of me if I ever needed it when I was old. How could I when he couldn’t take care of the simplest of things……picking up after himself. This article made me cry because of how much truth it contained. I hope someone that needs to reads it before it is too late for their relationship. great writing.
There are things we all do that irritate our partners. One of the best things we can do is learn how not to be irritated by small things. It took 3 years for my boyfriend to fill in some forms that I concluded he wanted me to sort out. I waited until he worked out that he was going to have to do it himself. I’m still waiting to see how long before he applies for his passport; it expired over 5 years ago!
Meantime there are lots of things I do that irritate him. We are still learning to live with each other. It will probably take the rest of our lives.
My mother asked my father not to leave his clothes inside out/half inside out. She washed them as they were presented and gave them back as they were. He could continue to take his clothes off in a way that suited him and she handled it in a way that suited her. Things never work out if we make battlegrounds out of trivial stuff.
Please turn in your man card.
I’ll comment, though I probably shouldn’t. Having difficulty understanding this, because I am a man and act totally opposite. I am neat as a pin, and have been since I was a child. I’ve never known a woman who was as obsessed with cleanliness and organization more than I. My late wife was a wonderful cook, and our agreement was always that she would cook, and I would clean up the resulting mess. Unfair advantage, I suppose, because I actually love to clean and keep things organized. Truth be told, I couldn’t sleep at night knowing there was something dirty in or near the kitchen sink. Now, that is MY mental issue, and not once in 26 years did I ever hold it against her that she wasn’t as nutty or obsessed about something as I. Unfortunately, cancer brought that nearly perfect relationship to an end. And only now, as I have entered the dating scene again, do I realize how wonderfully we fit together…….I will not expound further.
My current girlfriend is a hard worker, and her house suffers for it. I have offered to go over and clean some things that she has really let go, and she will have none of that. She is embarrassed by it, and has no time to fix it, while I am a little bothered that she will not allow me to serve her in this little way.
I guess I don’t understand the “do this for me or I won’t stay with you” attitude. I love serving and helping the ones I love, and I love for that to be reciprocated, but it isn’t a requirement. I won’t be hitting the bricks if you aren’t as service oriented as I. I don’t fall in love with a woman because I am anticipating all the stuff she’ll do for me. I fall in love with her because I love HER……whatever her features or faults, and why would I want to change someone I love?
I don’t know how long Matt was married, but as a person married going on 33 years now, I can say that many small issues that could become big issues came up in my marriage. I would sometimes feel, for example, when my husband would unload and put away the clean dishes from the dishwasher, that he had never lived in the house and had no idea where to put things. Then I worked past that and realized I was happy that he unloaded the dishwasher at all and didn’t mind moving a couple of items to their place. A marriage is a matter of compromise, of finding what works between you because you love that person and being with them is important enough to work on it. I do the things that are important to me to be done a certain way and he does other things. I fold the laundry, he takes out the trash (when he wants to). We both cook. We both shop for groceries. I change the sheets and he cleans the toilets. It’s a matter of getting over what bothers you and working out a way to compromise. As far as the respect goes, I give respect and I get respect. It’s easy to respect a man that gives equally to the marriage. If a man or woman “expected” to be cared for by the other and didn’t expect to care for the other in turn, it wouldn’t work. Both must contribute equally, even if in different ways, for a marriage to work.
Agreed there. She should have looked past this issue (not just the physical issue of the dishes but also the deeper implications). I am sure there were ways where she caused him to feel, negatively, that “rocked his core foundations” etc etc. But you have to compromise, no one is perfect in a relationship but you can tell which one is the selfish one and the entitled one, the one who refuses to work it out and leaves!
Will you marry me? Lol
I just left my wife after reading this cause she left a can of Dr Pepper on the table I hate that …thanks for opening my eyes
The timing of your article and insights came when i am right at that threshold…right at that place where all those little things for 24 years have caused me to want to say goodbye and to move on to a place where i can experience a person who truly does care.
I am capable of caring about all the things my husband needs…i need a partner who can see me as human and all those little things are how we express our character, our love and how we show another that we see them as human.
Its hard to feel human when someone doesnt see you as human.
I “get” this whole blog post, its insightful to a point but I think the insight is a starting point to the discussion, not a destination as is presented.
I am sure there were also things your “innocent” wife did that eroded the foundations of your marriage on a subconscious level, even reading this piece how about the issue of control? A grown man can feel trapped and imprisoned with a spouse that needs a high level of control for whatever reason. Its all just a tip of a larger iceberg I think. But all of that is just life…
The big picture is that a relationship is not going to work if there is no compromise. You put the dishes away and there will be something else you are not doing correctly, forever and ever. We all have a myriad of reasons to leave, really, she should have looked at your side of things and not just elevated her own needs.
Someone told me something great – we are attracted to acceptance and freedom – that rings true for me, and I think being the person offering that is the secret to all of it (though its hard). You live and learn.
Very good article, thank you.! But I can tell you that 30+ years ago, my uncle divorced his wife and this was one of the reasons he gave to the judge. He was dead serious about it. He has never remarried.
Your points may be somewhat well identified but you are still missing the point. Your entire dialog is about symptoms not the problem and you will never cure the problem by treating symptoms. Your wife did not leave you because of a dirty dish or the fact that you were disrespecting her. No, your wife ended your marriage because you don’t respect yourself enough to put the dishes in the dishwasher. Her actions are symptoms of your relationship to yourself. If I interpret what you are saying in your article then you would be perfectly happy living in an unkempt house with your yard looking like a South American jungle and that would be just fine because there are a million other things you would rather do. I have to ask how often you would wash clothes if she wasn’t around? My point is this : your wife left because you will not do those things FOR yourself and your philosophy of doing those things because you love and respect her will eventually engender anger and more disrespect for her. This isn’t about why men aren’t emotional about dirty dishes, it’s about questioning why you don’t care enough about yourself ( or feel this is the level of care you deserve or a hundred other psychological reasons we do thing) to give that level of self care to yourself. When you figure that out you will start to attract people into your life who respect you because YOU respect you.
So let me get this straight.
Because I’m watching Thursday Night Football, and casually setting my water glass by the sink (intending to use it again) and not yet realizing how things like this can erode relationships, it demonstrates that I don’t have self-respect.
Because I don’t dust my house as often as my ex-wife dusts her house, it means I don’t respect myself?
Because I don’t do laundry as methodically as my ex-wife did, I don’t respect myself?
That’s what you’re saying. My tendency to procrastinate or avoid things I don’t like doing (independent of a partner’s wants or needs) indicates deep psychological damage and little self-worth?
I want to be crystal clear that I’m getting this right before I say more.
In essence, yes. It was not my intention to trigger you although your carefully chosen words in your response show that I have. I wanted to make it clear that problems are never as simple as they appear. Western society rarely cures problems because we persue the quickest most equitable solution to alleviate the nagging symptom ( from medicine to politics) and not look deep enough to actually locate the problem. Usually because doing so brings up the fact that we, either by thought or deed are the creator of the problem. This usually means we will have to change our beliefs or behaviors. When we persue why we have such beliefs or actions we usually trace it to our early childhood experiences. By this I mean ( from a male perspective) our relationship to our mother or the significant female in our upbringing. Looking at this relationship honestly and how we act and react and the reasons for those actions or reactions in our adult life and then seeking to change such negative behaviors generally creates pain. It is a painful path that’s why most people don’t do it. Humans abhor pain and we persue pleasure every chance we get. Secondly we rarely do anything without a reward in one form or another. Your reward if you could have changed sooner would have been to still be married. There is a reward for going through the pain, though it is not visible at the onset. That is, our life functions easier. We don’t act out with unknown subliminal reasons for our behaviors. We aren’t as reactive to what people say or do. All this leads to less chaos in our lives. This is what I was demonstrating, not a personal attack.
I didn’t take it as an attack. I promise. There are plenty of attacks here and you can tell the difference.
I just think I’m a reasonably smart guy. I’m not likely to solve any advanced math theorems or engineer renewable energy, but I’m pretty skilled at digesting information and saying: “Sure. That makes sense.” Or “Ummmm. That seems totally not true.”
And in this case. It seems totally not true.
When guests come to my home, there are not glasses laying by the sink.
If my fuel light comes on in my car, I fill up even if it’s inconvenient.
When I’m low on groceries, I buy food.
When my son or I needs clean clothes, I work on laundry.
Prior to whatever trigger or deadline prompts me to action, I am not working hard on this things because I’d rather have a beer with my friends, or watch a movie, or read a book, or write something for millions of strangers to psychoanalyze.
I’m not suggesting I’m awesome. I’m not suggesting I don’t have issues stemming from childhood when my parents split at the age of 4 and I grew up always 500 miles away from one of my parents and half of my friends and family.
What I’m saying is I don’t think there is a shred of evidence that the reason I leave a glass by the sink or wait ’til Sunday night to do three loads of laundry is related to how much self-respect I have.
If I super-duper-duper loved myself 500 percent more than I do right now, I don’t imagine I would all the sudden invest more energy in menial tasks I only do when required or when I have company.
I’m just trying to understand. These are the things that interest me.
What a load of bollocks. He leaves a cup sink-side because he doesn’t respect himself?
Maybe if he doesn’t rinse it out and comes strolling in the next morning and fixes a drink without rinsing it;
But, no man on Earth has ever thought “I’m such garbage, I don’t deserve a clean glass. I’m going to leave it by the sink because only a more fulfilled man cleans, rinses, and dries his cup that he may use in an hour!!!!!!!”. That’s what women think a man’s mental/psychological process is like apparently.
THANK YOU!!! I’m reading this in tears because THIS is why I won’t ever allow myself to fall in love again! THIS is what happened in my marriage & it was so painful I just can’t get myself to trust again. I would respect his wishes & do what I knew was important to him… I’m so glad someone can finally put it into words because he made me feel like I was over-reacting. This should be required reading for any couple thinking about marriage or moving in together.
I left my husband after 20 years. I warned him for so many years he was going to end up losing his family. He would literally watch me clean house, laundry, split up wood mow lawn take care of kids etc and not help out. I also worked a full time job. I yelled at him, tried talking calmly to him and nothing ever changed. I finally quit talking to him at all after he said it was not his job to do those thing and he would not help me. The last few years as I prepared myself and kid for leaving the unhealthy situation was hell. I learned never to depend on a man or anyone but yourself. I wish I had realized many years before that I deserved to be treated better. Zero respect from him. He came home from work and sat in chair drinking all night. Man or women chores sbould be shared and on days one may not feel so well the other needs to step up to the plate and do more. .
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You are completely overthinking this entire thing. If your marriage broke up over glasses not put in the dishwasher, it was pretty shaky in the first place. If a dirty glass – a DIRTY GLASS, not infidelity, not spousal abuse, not financial irresponsibility led to the end of your marriage, you are better off in single blessedness. All this rationalization, where you manage to work leaving dirty glasses on the counter to failing to give wifey what she needs in the way of respect and love is bunkum, sir. Anyone who can equate such a petty thing into a lack of respect from a spouse needs to be on their own to have their house the way they want it without anyone “disrespecting” them by committing the ultimate crime of not adhering strictly to THEIR standards. Marriage is about compromise – on both sides. Did she ever think that her bitching at you about such a tiny thing was every bit as disrespectful to you as your leaving the glass out in the first place seemed to her? If I were you, I’d be dancing in the streets that the crabby lady was gone. Oh yes, and I’m a woman, been through two marriages where husbands were physically and emotionally abusive and serially unfaithful, as well as such terrible spendthrifts that they bankrupted us – and pathological liars as well, who exposed me to the risk of STDs. That is what you leave a marriage over, not a goddamned dirty glass or other similar minutiae. And then you bask in the peace of knowing that you are living a much more peaceful and fulfilling life, free of other people’s unrealistic expectations or unkindness.
I couldn’t have said it better.
I’m very sorry that you’ve been so badly hurt. And you may be correct that this author’s marriage was already shaky. But I’m sorry, you’re wrong and it’s very callous to belittle others feelings by saying that little things don’t equate to lack of respect. Having been through a very similar situation, I can assure you that the author is totally spot on. When men make a woman act like their mother and disregard (often multiple) requests to please help out our at least act like an adult and put things away, it does indeed make you feel unloved and unappreciated. On top of that, it makes you lose all respect for him. It breaks down the essential things two ppl need from the relationship in the first place and it can cause terrible damage. Not every marriage ends bc of abuse or infidelity. Everyone deserves to feel loved and cherished, and to be happy. Just bc they didn’t endure add extreme of a situation as you did doesn’t make them any less deserving of happiness, or their feelings any less valid. It’s sad that someone who is such a survivor is so quick to judge or be hateful to another’s situation.
You are totally missing the point of his entire post. It wasn’t about a glass by the sink. It was about the underlying feelings of respect and importance each individual placed on the minutiae of a glass by the sink. Abuse and infidelity are also terrible things, obviously. But unhappiness can be found in the subtle actions of spouses in everyday living. Being taken for granted isn’t physically hurtful, but can be emotionally devastating. And no one but the people in a marriage can know what will or won’t be okay for them to stay in said marriage.
Well I agree! If there is respect it will go both ways! It”s not the glass that caused the split, it’s the cumulative of little things that caused conflict.
The glass was the cherry on top of the sundae.
Instead of trying to prove you are right all the time, choose your battles.
So good you have realized it, so apply it in a new relationship. Good luck !
Yeah, I agree. I couldn’t even read all of this it was so crazy. Maybe I missed the point somehow. I am also a woman and I am guilty leaving dirty glasses by the sink. I would never be in a relationship with someone who is SO petty. I guess I’m the jerk for totally underestimating the damage I’m doing to my relationship with my completely lack of sensitivity. Is it possible that I’m a slob and nothing more?
Ditto ?
Yeah, you’re not giving the whole story or you’re trying to make her look evil by making her sound absurd.
No I’m afraid thus is spot on. But you stick to your perspective and see how happy your marriage is.
It’s not about the glass it’s about respect. Maybe you should reread it.
Wow you missed the point! I have been there and had that happen too jj but it all started somewhere and if you truly look back on both your marriages you will see they started failing over disrespect on His part and in not loving and respecting you as he should have as a husband! If they did respect and love you as he was talking about this thing wouldn’t have happened to you in those marriages just like they wouldn’t have happened to me. And just maybe we wouldn’t have let it go that far and put up with all the disrespect that we did!
Uh, you seem to go for a certain type of man, men who are not healthy for you. I know this sounds snarky, but I hope you’ve gotten counseling.
It wasn’t about the glass, it was about what the glass symbolized. I think he got it. The glass and probably a myriad of other things probably left his wife feeling unheard, unloved and disrespected. All of those things can lead to a lack of intimacy and cause a couple to drift apart.
To the People who are replying to this post saying that TF missed the point, you are wrong. Yes, we get it. The dirty dishes symbolized respect, blah, blah, blah. Why are people so fking sensitive? IT IS DIRTY DISHES. People get divorced for much bigger reasons. Infidelity, spousal abuse, money problems, ETC. Looking into to every little thing is ridiculous. Did he wake up to go to work because he doesn’t want to stay home with me? Or is it because he needs to provide? Men are very VERY fking simple creatures. If we love you, we say it. If we don’t like you we show it. Don’t over analyze men we don’t have ulterior motives.
I’m one of those wives. . .I nag my husband about leaving a glass by the sink, socks on the floor, crumbs in the bed. I continuously turn his dirty socks right side out and wipe his beard hairs off the bathroom counter. . .it drives me nuts. He’ll do the dishes and I’ll have to wash them again, he shrinks my shirts when he does laundry and leaves boot prints on floor and I step in them with my sock feet.
But you know what? He changes the oil in my car and carries the heavy groceries in the house. If it’s raining he runs and gets the car and brings it to the door so I don’t get wet. He lets me eat off his plate and always shares his treats. He empties the litter box cause he knows I hate doing it and always is willing to help me when I ask. He works tirelessly for an income and holds me when I cry. He still tells me I’m beautiful after all the weight I’ve gained, and he puts up with my crap when I’ve had a bad day and he knows it’s not about him. He loves he unconditionally and has my back when no one else does. He makes me laugh every single day.
To me if I have to turn a few dirty socks in every now and then or put a glass in the sink, it’s a fair trade. Marriage is about give and take, not about keeping score. I’ll gladly sleep in crumbs the rest of my life if I know I get to sleep next to him.
Pick your battles ladies.
Yes!
You missed the entire point of the example and honestly I think he chose a really poor one. Its not the item… its the act and the thoughtlessness
That man you describe could leave a glass by the sink ANY day. You are getting SO much obvious love and support from him. But I had none of that. And I got the glass by the sink. I didn’t get abused, cheated on, etc. But the day to day evidence of no regard for what I wanted or needed, which can take the form of that glass and a million other things, was too much for me after 14 years.
I’m with a guy now who is much like you describe above. I will gladly clean up what little he leaves in his wake. Not the crumbs in the bed though. Gonna have to brush those suckers out before I can sleep!
Amen, thank you.
I think that was the point. When it’s not a give and take, a woman becomes not a wife but a mother or a maid. I didn’t get married to have an extra kid who is too large to discipline.
Behave like an adult gentlemen.
I could have written the above myself! We are lucky women!
I totally get what you’re saying here. My husband made a game out of how long he could drive his vehicle without running out of gas. Even when he knew that I would need to use his vehicle he would never fill it up. I used to ask him why and sometimes get mad and he would laugh it off and tell me to relax. I would always fill up the vehicle and for years this went on. Until one day I came home (after using the vehicle and finding it on ‘E’ one more time} and in tears said to him, “you must really dislike me. You obviously have very little respect for me.” He looked at me in surprise and asked what I was talking about. So I sat down and explained to him how it made me feel whenever I used his vehicle and it was always low on fuel. Then I got up and walked out of the room. I never said another word about it but I have never used one of our vehicles since and had to worry about low fuel. I think he finally understood how disrespected I felt and that I couldn’t understand how he could take such pleasure in making me so upset. In my mind, if you love someone, then you will always be looking for little ways to make them happy just because. I also used to tell him that I didn’t care what he cooked for supper, it would just be nice to come home from work and have it ready once in awhile. It’s not about the food or the fuel or whatever, it’s the thoughtfulness towards your partner that’s important. After 35 years of marriage he has improved 125% but it hasn’t been easy.
You got it! Very nice answer!
“I don’t have to understand WHY she cares so much about that stupid glass.” … Actually, that is part of the problem; that you don’t care why. “Why” is because we are not your maid and not your mother. “Why?” does matter and saying that it doesn’t matter if you take the time to understand that does dismiss our feelings, our intelligence, our thoughts, and our time. Understanding why helps avoid any bitterness or mocking on your part… as illustrated with the comment about toast. If you don’t care why, that’s the root of the problem. Care about why.
Maybe I didn’t write it very well. I have a real problem with that sometimes.
Sometimes husbands don’t understand their wives. There’s just an unbridgeable disconnect in the way their minds work and the way they argue.
He doesn’t understand why the glass thing matters to her insomuch as he doesn’t emotionally experience it the same in a reversed-role scenario.
So, what I’m saying there is, you don’t even need to understand why in order to make doing some little thing for your wife, like say this glass in the dishwasher, something to care about. You simply need to be aware (and I’m telling you–he’s mostly unaware of the feelings he doesn’t know you feel about it) that it DOES matter to her in a way that isn’t petty and superficial.
Sure, the Why matters. But once a husband can say: “it matters to her, therefore, I will handle with care,” all the ugly feelings everyone is talking about here, go away.
I want to cry reading this. My husband tells everyone that I almost divorced him over a peice of toast, and I’d quickly correct him in front of said people that it wasn’t about the dang toast!!! He still doesn’t get it. I’m definitely sending this his way!!!
I’m totally with you, except for the paragraph where you describe how men are good at stuff like organ transplants and other really hard things. There’s a level of condescension in in that paragraph that strikes me as every bit as important as the dirty dishes, sir. Because WOMEN ARE MORE THAN CAPABLE OF ALL OF THAT.
Rest assured no slight was intended.
We have scientific evidence that men are capable of challenging, impressive things.
Ergo, one can safely conclude that men could also be awesome at marriage, where I currently don’t believe most men are.
Despite my best efforts, I can’t detect the condescension.
I assure you, if I thought men were better or smarter or more capable than women, I’d just say so. It’s my distinct pleasure to share my thoughts and opinions.
That’s very flawed logic, because most challenging impressive things DO NOT have the human element in the equation.
For example, a man can carve a statue out of granite. Wow it’s very impressive. But at any time did the piece of marble say, “The way you’re carving me makes me look fat, do it better!”
Of course not.
Being “good” at marriage is literally impossible as an individual. It requires BOTH parties to be “good” at the skills necessary to make a marriage succeed. A man can do everything in his power to be good at a marriage, and if the woman isn’t having it, it’s fucked. Same for the woman.
It’s not that flawed. OF COURSE the marriage can’t survive without both spouses. A marriage by definition is one thing. One whole comprised of two parts.
I write for husbands because that’s the experience I understand. And I want them to take more responsibility and invest more of themselves in their marriages.
I know LOTS of dudes. I know how hard they work. How much time they invest studying for fantasy football drafts. How much they workout. How much they watch ball games or play Madden or Call of Duty on PlayStation or Xbox.
And I submit that there a lot of men out there who, if they apply the same amount of energy to their wives and family as they do these diversions, will be rewarded with really satisfying relationships with their wives and children, NOT get divorced, and eliminate most of the their common marital complaints because I think their wives STOP frustrating them once her emotional needs are being met now that they’re communicating and speaking the same language for the first time ever.
I don’t have any idea what the female experience is. Or what wives feel. Or what it’s like to carry and birth children.
I write what I know and/or what I think I know.
Because wifehood isn’t one of those things, my attention is on husbands.
And it’s supposed to be helpful and encouraging. Not critical and belittling.
I’m probably doing it wrong. But I’ll probably keep doing it anyway.
Seriously, calm down. This in no way came across as sexist. It’s mainly saying that a man can do all these things so why is this other thing so hard? If the story was from a woman’s perspective, it would say women can do all these things.
Shelly, he isn’t saying women are not good at those thing or that only men are. He’s making a comparison between how hard a heart surgery is and how hard it is to put a glass in the dishwasher. I kinda felt that way at first too, but don’t believe that’s how he meant it when he wrote it.
Ya don’t say…
A LOT of relationships have a wide range of issues just like this. So what the fuck is the actual problem then?
Communication.
But wait! There’s more!
Of course there is. Communication is only Step 1. From then on out, the person who has done the talking as the aggrieved, needs to step back, give it some time, and re-assess.
Here’s a clue… it’s exactly what happened in mine, but with a different outcome. I used to get flustered when I’d have to troll the living room / family room for plates / coffee cups that were left out in some way-too-tired-early-am hour. I get it. But it was a complete slob in my mind. Because well, critters. I’m not real big on critters freeloadin’ it between my clearly delineated boundaries made of aluminum, tyvek, wood, fiberglass, and pulverized sedimentary rock sandwiched between two sheets of paper, and coated with colored plastic.
I brought it up, multiple times, but it was STILL happening, even months later.
And then I realized something…
The ONLY one this seems to bother is *me*. I did something which most commentators seem to miss: I changed my mindset and made it an act of service. I quit trying to make it about *me*, and how it made my life miserable, and how offended I was, and how she “needed to stop making more work for *me*” – I particularly enjoyed that one.
In the grand schema of playing life, here was for overly simplistic terms, an already perfect person – if I could just get her to stop doing this one thing. It’s all about *me*, because she wasn’t quite perfect enough… just yet. If she could just see it from my point of view, as to how important this was to *me*.
I have a thing about finding the capital-T Truth. In this instance it fails this test of making everything an act of service, because well if she would just stop f*&#ing that other guy… there is an obvious moral breakdown of lines that should not be crossed. However in the original context, it does hold up because it’s not grounds for a termination of a relationship.
This is where the truth does come out:
Clearly communicate unmet expectations (without passive aggressive bullshit).
Cut each other slack, and emotionally let it go.
If your expectation is still unmet: do it yourself – because you are being a **helpmate** to your partner.
If your expectation is now being met: thank them for it.
Your partner is doing exactly the same thing with you.
It stops being a service or ‘being a helpmate’ out of love to the other person when they refuse to do you the same service.
It stops being a easy thing to compromise on when they expect you to just do it, then you’re becoming a maid or a mother or something that is not a partner and marriage is about partnership not about ignoring your needs and compromising your beliefs and ideals to suit the other person.
Marriage/partnership is a two-way street.
Precisely. Hence the communication up front, and continuously. Without reciprocity you’re just feeding an ego that becomes the path of least resistance into selfishness, and ends up morphing into narcissism.
Communication up front without the passive aggressive attitude, clearly lays out ground rules – and that is acknowledgement out of kindness is the actions put into words of how “we are doing exactly the same thing for each other.”
You. Are. Brilliant.
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Absolutely agree, great from a guys perspective.
The article didn’t say where we’re supposed to put the glass if we’re not done with it and what if our wives don’t like it left where the author recommends leaving it. So we’re supposed to put a clean glass in the dishwasher? I hope this is just an example of something larger. I though women these days were supposed to be strong and confident. Doesn’t seem so if the need reassurance in everything the do.
Communication. If you’re still using the glass (maybe later), TELL her. But when I’ve just finished preparing the whole dinner AND cleaning up the kitchen, and he waltz’s in to put a dirty dish/glass in the sink instead of the open dishwasher, then I feel disrespected and unappreciated. He forces me to be his “mother” and tell him to put it in the dishwasher……EVERY TIME!!
David,
Your grammar is as bad as your logic and I’m sure you have a wife who’s self esteem you’ve so broken she thinks you’re the best she can do or go to bed with your hand every night. You TOTALLY missed the point. Women don’t need reassurance as to every little thing- they need some semblance of acknowledgement that you care about someone other than yourself. Even slightly.
Then let’s change the scenario.
Should I have gotten angry about an empty beer bottle left on the hardwood bedroom floor one night?
What about 4 bottles? Or 9? Or 3 dozen? (I counted 39 the last time I cleaned up the mess in this scenario.)
How long should they sit there drawing bugs and stinking up the room before I’m “allowed” to get angry about his disregard for garbage in the bedroom, 2 days? A week? Two months? (Record: 5 months before I couldn’t stand it any more and put on gloves to clean up this unique to him mess that wasn’t an issue when he moved in. He got comfortable living there and got complacent about being part of the team that takes care of the place.)
Or should I, as I did, expecting my husband to be a thinking adult, have fixed the mess and said “Please don’t leave your empty beer bottles on the hardwood bedroom floor. One of us could get cut on a cap or broken glass in the middle of the night, and when your cat knocks them over, the clinking wakes me up. I’ve cleaned them up for now. Please get them to the recycling before you go to bed moving forward so we can get rid of the gnats in the bedroom.”
Cue the cycle restarting itself, and every reminder that I’d asked him to be responsible for his own mess was ‘picking a fight’ and ‘overreacting’ and ‘crazy’.
I put up with it since he quit his full time job in 2011 until this summer, when trying everything I knew how to do to make clear that his laziness about a number of things *including* recycling beer bottles was unsanitary, unsafe, and unkind. When the fights got violent on his part and hopeless and repetitive, I left.
Matt, you nailed it. In reading this blog post, I was reading what I had hoped my ex-husband would realized before we finally split up. In my case, I didn’t leave. He did. Apparently I was such a nag about asking him to help around the house and acknowledge the things I cared about that he just found somebody else.
I trace nearly all of our conflict back to this fundamental lack of understanding about how to show love and respect to his wife and to be a partner in life. All my pleas for recognition and help just poured fuel on his selfish bonfire of belief that all conflict was my fault. The lowest point in my life was when I discovered his affair and he was unremorseful, unwilling to end it, and tried to make me feel that I just wasn’t good enough. He put forth zero effort to understand me or put any effort into the marriage. He couldn’t even articulate any big issues in the marriage. Once he was found out, he just bolted.
Two years after the divorce was final, he was still doing it. I had to call him about a financial item in the agreement that he hadn’t fulfilled, and he proceeded to insult me, mock me, and make selfish excuses for why he hadn’t done it. Unbelievable. I am SOOOOOO much better off without him. As excruciatingly painful as it was to go through the divorce, I am so grateful that I didn’t spend the next several decades living in frustration, insecurity, and unhappiness with him. I remarried and my husband is very helpful and a true partner, even if I do have to remind him to show some concern about how I feel. (He is an engineer, after all!)
Ok, makes sense. Except my husband is the one who gets all bent about the glass. Now what? 😉
Now, I want to know what you DO care about. And how you feel when that boundary is violated.
Whatever the answer is, is “the glass.”
Which was the entire point. Well done. Look forward to reading more.
Thank you!
Thank you. I can’t believe how people are so convinced this is a man/woman thing. It’s a HUMAN thing. You think queer couples don’t have this issue? I broke up with my ex girlfriend because she was the the one who left the mess. It hurt me so much because she was a total slob and knew I hated mess, and cared so little about me that she made NO effort to keep things even a little tidy for me. This isn’t literally about a glass, people. Stop being intentionally obtuse.
Women care about men leaving a used glass next to the dishwasher because we are not your maids and your hand is not broken and you can put the damn glass in the dishwasher. Not because you’re psychic. Not because you’re an expert in household management. Because you’re all grown up and your hands work.
The adult male in this household is fond of generating trash in the kitchen and then NOT WALKING THE THREE OR FOUR STEPS TO THE TRASH CAN AND THROWING IT IN.
This is a problem*. I’m so glad I’m not married to him. It’s never going to happen, either; our residence together is entirely a matter of convenience for both of us. Soon as that’s no longer the case I will move on and I will not regret it one bit.
In further matter of fact I’m not likely to cohabit with a male again, even if I am exceedingly fond of him. Why should I? The average salary for a maid in the United States is $23,130; maid plus prostitute is considerably more. How many men will pay that? None except the sadists, who are more after the prostitute work than the maid work. Even if they would pay for the maid work, $23k is not enough to live on in most areas of the country. No thank you, I’ll clean up my own messes.
[*And not the only problem, but this is your blog and you are not here to hear all about my problems, because therapists run about $200 an hour or so and I just don’t have that kinda scratch sitting around my house, in my bank account or elsewhere. See how this works?]
Good post. Wives also need to remember that the relationship/marriage works both ways. Just as he should remember to put his glass in the sink/dishwasher, she should remember to show her appreciation. It’s a two way street. (And trust, clear communication, and total respect for one another are important.)
Why should she show her appreciation when you clean up after yourself? That should be a given.
It should be a given, yes. However, expressions of gratitude have caused zero divorces in history.
You mean like the Medicare supplement policy commercial? Wife: We need to talk. Husband: I took out the trash. Wife: Yes, and I thank you so much for that.
Did your Momma thank you for going potty in the bathroom when you were 10 years old? Grow up.
Whose responsibility is it to change? Who should compromise a need to suit the other person’s need? There has to be balance. If I take steps to demonstrate my love and respect then my spouse needs to be doing the same. It’s not a contest and I don’t keep score but really, in my head, over the years, yes, I am kinda keeping score. I’ll put the water glass in the dishwasher but you need to learn to park your car on your side of the garage. There are things in my head and in my heart that are just as important to me as that water glass might be to her. If my wife loves me, respects me, supports me….. She’ll make compromises to satisfy what’s important to me just like I’m doing for her. I left my wife because she wasn’t. Her idea of compromise was me changing to suit her needs. It was too one-sided. Yes, men generally should understand the little acts that have deeper meaning for their lovers and they should understand that doing these acts goes a long way toward a happy, long-lasting relationship. But women…Women need to understand that they need to choose their battles and sometimes, it might be good to just deal with what their man does because it goes a long way toward and happy, long-lasting relationship. Their is a shared need for sensitivity between both.
Sir,
Well said!
Excellent article. Except sometimes it is not about wanting love and respect. Sometimes it is just about wanting fairness in sharing the burdens of daily living. It is slowly starting to happen, but all too often women still end up doing “The second shift”. Title of an excellent book on the topic by Arlie Hochschild.
Exactly! The second shift can be a bitch and some nights I find myself quietly seething about it being my responsibility by default. Because I want real food and a clean kitchen?! We are 45 years old…I literally hate the grocery store these days.
This really could be life-changing for many marriages.
one of the best books I read during the final break up of my nd long term relationship was M.Scott Peck’s Road Less Travelled.
One of his many analogies on page 179 was his comparison between a marriage and a base camp for mountaineering. A good base camp provides shelter and provisions where one can receive nurturence and rest before one ventures forth to another summit. He states that successful mountain climbers know they must spend at least as much time tending to the base camp as their survival is dependant on its sturdy construction and well maintained supplies.
Umm yeah, are you me? From the future? Damn you! My wife sends me these articles like this so I have to read them, and you just validate that many men are just people of surface value, and women are emotion filled deeper than the Marianas Trench.
I’m not even trying to make value judgments. (Like suggest her feelings or more important than yours or vice versa. It’s irrelevant, actually.) As a matter of practicality, men who want to remain married should understand WHY his wife is upset about the glass by the sink. (Or whatever thing upsets her.)
His failure to understand the Why prevents him from being able to manage the conflict.
Bad things ensue.
All I’ve ever tried to do here is provide maybe a different way to think about things, with the hopes that other guys who want to stay married can stay married.
I apologize if you don’t care and if you feel like it totally doesn’t apply to you.
It’s not for everyone. But I’m always hopeful it’s something for someone. Usually, it turns out that it is.
Thanks for reading.
I’m going to take on faith that you aren’t just of surface value.
… the emotion thing, is complicated. There are more than two thousand years of culture (the sort written by men, women, I’m sure, always had our own opinions) that opined that men were creatures of reason, where women were creatures of emotion, but have you ever thought about that? Really? Because while men and women typically have somewhat different emotional ranges*, there isn’t any evidence that men are less emotional than women – actually, some studies have found the reverse, in terms of emotional stability. Women cry about four times more frequently. Men commit murder about seven times more frequently (okay, I jest – I mean, that’s a real number, you can look up the crime statistics, but the important thing is expression of anger, not actual murderous rage, for most guys, I’m pretty sure.) Men’s emotions are normalized in our culture – while women’s tend to be normalized only in typically feminine contexts, and are otherwise pathologized. There’s some great research out there about differences in epinephrine response, if such things float your boat.
I’m pretty sure you have emotions. You might not think of them that way. You might be used to thinking of your emotional responses as “reason”. Or you might work really hard not to think of them at all. (I seriously have no clue, having never met you – the above are just some really common ways guys who aren’t particularly introspective deal.) You don’t have to get all touchy-feely, but it might be hard for you to relate to your wife’s emotions if you’re clueless or in denial about your own. So, I guess I hope you aren’t, but maybe if you are just thinking about them differently will help. I don’t think it has to be some big traumatic thing.
Obviously, your wife is sending you these for a reason. And I figure you’re posting for a reason. I’m writing, because my ex claims to still love me, and I’m massively better off without him (and I stuck it out longer than I should have, but at least I don’t wonder if maybe if I’d just done more somehow we could have made it work)… but it sounds like maybe both of you are still trying? You can get through a lot of glasses with good faith and caring. Talk to her. Listen to her. Talk about what’s important to you. Maybe hire a housekeeper (or otherwise consider creative solutions.)
* I would hypothesize this this is both hormonal and cultural, but seriously, we don’t have all the data. Anyhow, I don’t think this is the place, by which I mostly mean, don’t get me started or I’ll start babbling neurochemistry.
Ah yes, “studies.” Care to share some of them?
Married 30 years. Separated 2 months. I told my husband he had to go. He did. My husband still doesn’t get this stuff. Not sure how I hung in so long. I guess I really, really, really liked him. Everything you say about women here is true. The Open Letter To Shitty Husbands stuff – A huge relief for me to read that too. My husband at 55 yrs old still thinks he is entitled to not have to care about how he makes me feel. He still thinks this is not his job, and that is hugely unreasonable to for me to wish he did. Some men don’t get it, ever, and ladies, don’t waste your whole life waiting. I knew many times over the years that it was broken, but with kids, etc etc…. My son told me recently (he’s 19) I should have left sooner. Hard to hear. You try so very hard to do right by your kids, above all else, as a mom. I hate regretting this and wondering what better life I could have given my son, if I’d respected what I knew was true, years ago.
And this is why I am moving out and moving on. Totally agree with this post.
I love this, I am HER!! Silently analyzing myself, wondering why I don’t deserve his effort, why everything is more important, crying to myself (obviously no one else listens )because I am so resentful. I wish my husband could read this and understand.
This is just so. spot. on. Great post. Cheers!
The older you get, the less the glass (aka metaphor for whatever little irritating thing seems to be a symbol for lack of respect, lack of caring, lack of love) matters and the more the person matters. Unfortunately, this is not possible to learn until you have a lot of mileage under your belt. And if it does matter all that much, then this is not the person for you. It really is that simple. Take it from a lady of a certain age: the person perfect for you is the person who irritates you the least.
You are exactly correct. Especially the last line!
Wow! Just wow! Thank you for sharing, and I will definitely be sharing – marriage has to be intentional to work, and you really summed it up here. Not just the wife’s side, but also the man’s. There’s stuff for us all in this one.
Thank you for this article! It’s a perfect example of how a man can DIE for his wife. DIE as in dying to yourself – not as in if someone holds a gun to your head dying. It’s giving up your desires, and bad habits to show her your LOVE for her. It’s Biblical: “Men, love your wives as Christ loved the Church – that He gave His life for her.” Most men say they would die for their wife – but this article shows him HOW. Cause most men think it’s a gun-to-your-head-dying. Well, it could be, considering the state of our society, but mostly, it’s thinking about what SHE wants – before you do what YOU want. Thanks for sharing this!
And what should the wife do in return?
I don’t understand… if he doesn’t pick up his mess, just don’t do it… If the house is falling apart, let it go! When he starts seeing 9 glasses in the sink NOT in the dishwasher, he will eventually get it. We do things and have to face consequences. If this is something that bothers me, then I DONT do it! If it bothers me to pick up his glass, then I don’t do it! My husband sometimes ask me to drop off his shirts for dry cleaning … I ask him to put them in the car… He doesn’t put them in the car, I don’t bring them to the dry cleaners. He has run out of shirts a few times, but now? I don’t even have to ask… The shirts are in the car every time.
This assumes a lot. I mean, I can see how you might think these are reasonable assumptions, but they don’t always apply. My ex once promised me that he’d wash the dishes every night for two weeks, and never did them. So I left them, and just washed what I needed for my own meals… it was pretty horrible. (And I can deal with a bit of clutter elsewhere, but left to my own devices, my kitchen will be spotless.) When I was in my teens and my roommates did something similar, I finally put the dirty dishes in their beds. Not something very practical to do to someone with whom you’re sharing a bed!
Of course, I didn’t leave over the dishes. The broken promises – of which the dishes were the least – were part of it, as was the constant belittling. But in the end, I realized that I couldn’t stay with him, which was making me miserable anyway, and pursue my career in science. (He’d announced that a) he’d decided he didn’t want to have children after all and b) he’d like me to stop working and stay home and take care of him.) And when it came to science, that he was putting more pressure on me at home, rather than supporting my new career. Research is a really challenging, demanding career – and so much better than being married to him.
But then, someone who hadn’t been a twit wouldn’t had tried to make me choose.
That’s a really nice thought, and I bet it would work well for some men, but others are a different story. If I didn’t pay the bills, they simple didn’t get paid, and I wasn’t willing to live without electricity. If I didn’t clean, the place was gross and the cat boxes stunk the whole house up and there were no clean dishes and mushrooms grew in the shower. I stopped doing his laundry, but almost everything else affected me more than I was willing to live with. He was overtly abusive in other ways and I finally had to leave. It’s really nice now to manage my household without someone else actively sabotaging my work.
No one has a sense of humor anymore. The couple could have had fun with this. She could have written “Hi” in lipstick on the glass and stuck it under his pillow or something. She could have gotten onto his facebook and (as him) posted something funny about his glass-leaving habit. Or made it a fun game, like you get X in the bedroom for every glass you put away. Either way, he’d have come around probably. What a shame. All this assumes he was thoughtful and considerate in other ways.
Thank you, Charlene. I’m quite torn in what I think of this article. You could change the genders and it would read the same.
My relationship gives me occasional frustrations with my wife never putting things back where she got them from!
It’s never going to end our togetherness, though!
By the way, we’ve been married 38 years and counting.
Yes, passive aggression is always a great, hysterical choice!
I come home from work or inside from gardening or doing outside chores or running errands, I don’t remember exactly, but anyway, something for the joint good. (Unemployed) husband is sitting reading. It’s late afternoon, early evening. I say, “I don’t get it. You like to eat and you like putting stuff together. Why don’t you cook?” Answer, “I thought of learning to cook but then I realized it would be a big pain in the ass every night for me and I decided not to.” I thought, “So someone else can have the big pain in the ass for YOUR benefit?” My marriage ended over an uncooked dinner. Your assessment is right on, in my experience, and it’s not so much the glass by the sink as it is the last straw in something that could be called “taking someone for granted.”
Reblogged this on Nicole Starleigh and commented:
A friend shared this on Facebook today. Now, I’m not even close to thinking about divorce, but I read this and instantly connected. It’s like he wrote this just for me. (He didn’t, of course.) It’s so real and so raw that it almost made me tear up. So I sent it to my husband, not to pick a fight but to say, “I hear you. Please hear me.” And it’s not that I haven’t said these things to him… It’s that I haven’t been able to articulate to him on this level – on his level.
simple n yet not so simple. i doubt he will ever understand
Absolutely so true! It’s about respect. It’s about feeling safe. This describes my life to a tee! How many times I have felt like an idiot for getting upset over something that seems so stupid yet time after time it’s the same. I am tired. I just want someone to say take the day off honey and I will take care of everything. This will not happen because nothing will get taken care of.
Maybe just maybe people need to know each other, live with each other before getting married. It is not just about respect and willingness to listen to what is important to your other, you also need to accept what your other is if you love them. Try to force change in someone else is not always seen as love, even if you meant that. People can be happy and accept each other under the most diverse conditions, I have seen people stay in love for decades and longer, maybe they only ate out? If you are not willing to accept each other and both willing to try and consider changing your behavior, maybe you should not get married?
I have never read something so accurate in my life. You hit the. nail. on. the. head. Thank you. Now get to teaching/counseling those men. ?
Correct men should just do. They should not question when they don’t understand, nor expect understanding, or an explanation they can understand. Nor should they always expect to be told what to do, just because they have always fixated on their Mother and followed her instructions, then once married moved this attention to the wife. It is stupidly believed that women being able to more often multitask, thus precieve more, that they should be the organizer, while the bulkier more narrow minded male should be the doer, as his attention on one thing tends to preclude everything else. Try having a conversation with him while he is engrossed in something.
Men do wish to do for their partner, but unfortunately once done they expect recognition, none given it is a wasted exercise, try praise, next time it will be done without asking, don’t forget the praise. Same when courting, he did or brought things to obtain praise, the more praise the more it was done, this is practice for marriage.
He is a man, but more importantly he is an animal, a angry animal. He wishes to protect his family by being the first line of defense, he wishes to keep his female for himself from other angry males, he wishes to feed his family especially meat, so he kills, he wishes to prove to his partner and all that he is good so he competes, finally and most importantly he wants/needs sex. He is angry all the time, ask him for a fight and see what happens, or poke or prod him, he is a beast that is always switched on for either fighting or sex, not a lot left for being reasonable.
You are absolutely correct men should do for women without being told, unfortunately they are not mind readers, nor are they built to be unthinking robots.
They are different to women, built different have different jobs different thought processes.
You address the symptom, and how to manage it as it constantly arises, would it not be better to address the cause, understand it and use this knowledge to remove the issue altogether by being understanding, this of course needs to be a two way street.
Continuing to go on this way that we do not understand each other but we should just react certain ways without understanding is not smart.
I BELIEVE THAT WOMEN ARE THE SUPERIOR OF THE TWO. WHAT A THING FOR A GAY MAN TO SAY, WHICH I AM.
Should not look upin them as the enemy, but as children, always looking for a females guidance and praise, from birth they have been trained to follow a womans instructions, don’t be angry at them for that. Learn about it and use it, you want something especially big done, ask nicely and even describe a reward for doing it, just a promise of a meal is usually enough. You have given them a job and a reward, if they di sonething you have a problem with don’t just keeo tellung thwm not too, that is asking for a fight they will usually go fir the fight, they don’t think like women you know that so why keep expecting them to change. Understand them and use that to your advantage. Oh use witholding sex against a man and all you are doing is forcing him away from you and to go elsewhere, it is a biological imperative to him that he has little or no control over.
Women know they have power over men with sex, it is lucky for men that women do not know just how much power or how to use that power. The power lies not so much in the act as in the mental and emotional responses.
Anyway i liked your artical and i agree men should do for women, just your aporoach misses some important behaviours.
Well said!
“Women know they have power over men with sex, it is lucky for men that women do not know just how much power or how to use that power. ”
With a ridiculous statement like that, you didn’t need to share that you’re gay. It’s self-evident.
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time
Sometimes it takes just so little to show that we respect, love, and care. Indeed, once men can grasp that without analyzing too much about it, everything changes.
I agree with everyone saying their marriage must have been shaky anyway. No, a woman should not have to act like a mother just as much as a man should not have to be a father. Maybe he doesn’t even realize he’s doing these small things, and she’s a HORRIBLE communicator if she couldn’t tell him these things bothered her. When you take the vows, you agree to work through things. There was something else going on. There’s no way in hell a smart, intelligent woman would ever divorce someone over such small things that made her “feel disrespected” without first trying to communicate with the person she felt “so in love” with before. Just some food for thought; guys shouldn’t have to be fucking mind readers. Get over yourself and act like an adult and communicate when something is wrong. What happens in ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE when there is a BLATANT LACK OF COMMUNICATION? Failure. Failure!!!
If she felt so self-entitled and too proud to even talk to him, then that’s pathetic. The man is better off without her, he will be able to find a woman who wants to love him and wants his love to a point where she will communicate the problems.
I could go on and on, but it’s just flat out stupid and obvious to me. The OP needed to write this as a sort of cathartic experience, I’m sure… But as time goes on and he gets his balls back in the mail from his insane ex-wife, he will remember his self worth and realize this was all bullshit.
What if, in this scenario, your wife often leaves her cup on the counter without putting it in the dishwasher. Then gets disrespected when you set yours there instead of in the dishwasher? It’s hard to respect someone’s feelings toward an action when they perform the same action.
If your wife left you because you left unwanted glasses on the sink, you had bigger issues. This was just the excuse.
You perfectly articulate the man’s perspective; moreso than I could ever do. But just like all the similar articles my wife sends me to read and just like the majority of the female respondents to this article, it’s all about pleasing the woman…happy wife, happy life, right? There are two people, human beings with feelings and emotions, in a marriage and they BOTH deserve to be happy, not just the wife. Ladies, if you have it in your mind that your husband needs to do this, that, and the other to make YOU happy, then you’re looking at it through the wrong lense. You should be looking at what you can do to make him happy while at the same time, he should be looking at what he can do to make you happy. When couples learn to put THEIR marriage on a pedestal (NOT the husband or the wife) and treat one another as king and queen, then will they find a long, happy marriage.
If mama’s not happy, no one is happy. And mama is an emotional terrorist.
Lets not confuse the wife’s focus on the glass by the sink for what the article suggests it is.
It may well be a scenario where the wife is OCD – a form of anxiety. That doesn’t make her mentally ill, but it doesn’t mean that she has to project those tendencies onto the husband. As a man married to a woman professionally diagnosed as suffering from an anxiety disorder I can tell you that there are things I do to accommodate her at time irrational behavior and there are times I have to put my foot down and call her out on her behavior or irrational demands.
There should be give and take in a marriage but often one partner does all the compromising. At that point it isn’t compromising though… It is capitulating.
Yes it is a two way street but I totally agree with the author in this. It is natural for a woman to be caring and attentive and do things because they love their partner and or husband. It is so true that when a women starts feeling this way and feels that she is not being heard and not respected and loved like the writer explained then a woman will stop doing those things out of hurt and not being loved and thus the battle begins. Yes it is a two way street but it starts somewhere and that responsibility of the relationship falls on the mans shoulders. If he gets it like the writer says the woman will feel secure, loved, and respected and in turn will do the same for him! A win win for both!
It’s simple really. When you leave that glass, what your wife understands is that is that you have so little respect for her that you think you are above having to actually pick up after yourself. She believes you think that her time is less valuable than yours because you can’t be bothered, but expect her to pick up after you, a grown man. And having been through this myself, let’s be honest, you may not EVER be done with that glass. So at some point she feels she needs to pick it up and put it away. It feels awful for the wife – it feels belittling and disrespectful, and says that you don’t think she is important. Fortunately, I was able to communicate this to my husband and we are still married. Because we try to have mutual respect for each other, BOTH of our time is equally as valuable.
Thank you for your honest and candid blog entry. Really hit home :).
Beautifully said.
Biggest bunch of bullshit I ever heard. Get over the F&^%$# glass or I’m gonna leave you ass in the dust.
And how long have you been married?
And the merry-go-round continues.
Ecc 1:9
You might take a hint from your blog post on respect for your wife & apply that to your respect for people & buy yourself a good thesaurus being Google or Microsoft apparently didn’t do such a good job with the suggestions as you were typing. Language reveals the heart.
I get it.
I would have divorced you too
Great job! So much truth and wisdom in this article! My husband and I have been together 10 years and if we had not found a fantastic marriage counselor to explain exactly what you said we’d be divorced as well. Hate that so many couples don’t great to have an amazing relationship/marriage because they realize these things too late…or not at all.
Oh so much this. It isn’t the glass, it is that feeling like once you move in together you become a house keeper.
For the first 6 months my boyfriend and I lived together I did the laundry every week. He never offered to come help, he would sit on the couch watching tv or playing video games. I would ask for help folding and sometimes he would help other times he didn’t. In an effort to not be the ‘nagging girlfriend’ I never told him how much it bothered me that he didn’t offer to help. It was his laundry as well, why was I the only one interested in making sure it got done? If I didn’t do laundry one weekend there would be complaints about running out of this or that, to which I responded he could do laundry as well. He still didn’t take the initiative to do laundry. Things came to a bit of a head one weekend when our roommate asked him why the hell I was the only one doing laundry, did I move 16 hours to become the housemaid and could she also get me to do laundry? He blustered about for a bit but got better about helping without me having to ask first. We have similar problems with other household chores, I know I should just tell him it drives me crazy to feel like I always do these things but I don’t like confrontation or to seem like a nag.
He has expressed annoyance about being the one to do dishes after he has cooked most nights which I totally understand. Doing the dishes after cooking is incredibly annoying, however I do the dishes on the nights I cook, and pretty much every other night as well. It is hard for me to show appreciation when I feel so unappreciated. We’ve been together for 7 years and living together for 4.
I’m sure I do things that drive him crazy just like he drives me crazy, I should really work on trying to open up with him about it. It feels like there is never a good time to bring up hard stuff though. Just gotta grow up and do it.
I agree that communicating WHY the glass issue is so important to her is important, but when you communicate it over and over and it’s still being done, it is actually worse. Ok, I told him it hurts me, because it makes me feel disrespected, then he continues to do it, then, I feel not only disrespected, but that he doesn’t care at all that he makes me feel that way. Also, if men would listen, actually LISTEN and HEAR their wives, there wouldn’t be so many repeat arguments or “nagging”.
You’ve touched on the magic thing. Wives write me all the time: “how do you get this but my husband doesn’t?”
And the basic answer is, I had a pretty good life, minus money. Well liked. No major trauma. I took things for granted. All the time.
There was NO WAY for me to connect random chore that didn’t get done, or misunderstood comment where I felt she wasn’t giving me the benefit of the doubt with a painful, emotional wound she was feeling.
I was denying her the “right” to feel hurt by my actions because I considered them petty and insignificant.
You might notice a hundred other guys said the same not-smart thing in the comments.
I never allowed myself to consider that it actually hurt.
Fast forward to the marriage ending.
Life HURT. Every second of every day in ways I didn’t know the human body could feel. It was the most brutal time imaginable. After 30+ years of nothing super-horrible happening, I was getting my first taste of legit loss and grief.
It didn’t take. I vomited more than a person should.
It didn’t take me long after that to understand how some little symbolic thing could HURT, and how I’d spent years doing things or saying things that upset my partner. And when she’d say: “Hey, this hurt pretty bad,” I didn’t apologize and try to make better choices.
I would get defensive and try to sell her on my perspective on why her feelings were “wrong” and “unjustified.”
Without knowing first-hand how much it can, just, hurt, to be alive and walking around when your insides are trashed, I would have never been able to “get” this.
So, in conclusion. IF a man has felt that kind of pain before. The kind that only comes from difficult life trauma like the loss of a loved one, or a major accident that leaves him handicapped.
Once you can convey to your husband that that same kind of deep hurt he felt during that difficult time is the SAME hurt you feel today, even though it’s about situations that are not the same as his, I think he can make the same connection I did.
“X hurt me REALLY bad. I know what that feels like. Y is hurting my wife in that same gut twisting way. I need to help her not feel that way. I had no idea something like housework or a comment from me could trigger that same horribleness. Now that I get it, I can do a better job.”
…
Maybe that’s a huge stretch.
But that, combined with all the books I read, is what helped me see the metaphorical glass for what it really is.
I wish there was a less convoluted way.
It sounds like you were married to a very petty, passive aggressive, selfish, and emotionally abusive wife. Everyone should be given equal billing in the marriage and not continually bow to the whims and desires of the other spouse just to make him / her happy. No one should have to worry about leaving a glass out, or clothes on the floor, or the gas tank near empty, or the dinner not being ready. These things happen, it is unfortunate that your partner could not see past her selfish perspective of the way things “should be” and treat you as an equal partner in the marriage.
Beautifully done.
Thank you.
I’ve never read anything more true in my life.
You can only nag your husband about something so many times before you start to think he must not care about me or he’d take the 4 seconds to do this small thing for me. You’re right, it’s not about the glass by the sink, the laundry on the floor, or the toilet seat left up.
Please show me that my feelings are important to you and that I’m worth a few seconds of effort on your part.
I’m impressed that you (the author) did eventually “get it” instead of blaming your wife, even if it was unfortunately too late.
I guess devotion, breaking your ass every day to earn a living, and commitment are meaningless if you don’t do “the little things”
I’d say that any woman who makes a big deal about meaningless things is worth losing.
amen
I bust my ass at my job every day too, am utterly devoted to my husband, AND do the little things that I know are important to him. If I can the little things that show him that I respect and care about him, why can’t he? Because he shouldn’t HAVE to? Because doing those things was only part of wooing me, not part of what I was signing up for for life?
This is a super one-sided way to think about it. What are YOU offering? It’s 2016, lots of women work. If I work as well, I’m offering devotion, breaking my ass to earn a living, commitment AND the little things. Stop looking for any excuse to avoid looking within for the solution to a problem.
This is incredibly right on. Absolutely life changing stuff here. Hopefully coming from a man, it will be taken more to heart.
If you really thought your ex-wife was great, you probably would’ve been surprising her with many things to show you love her, along with some of her requests. And she would’ve been doing the same for you.
Bottom line you got divorced. But we’re supposed to believe that if you jumped through some hoops, you’d have been happily married. Those were just manifestations of the 800lbs gorilla in the marriage. Neither of you were too enamored with each other, so coming up with elaborate reasons for feeling invalidated, etc. are what happened. More finger pointing, frankly.
People would be much more wise and sane if they realized nobody is here to make you happy, not even your spouse. You got married to not go on the hard voyage of life alone. Sometimes you’ll actually do nice things for each other and you should if you love them. Just don’t expect them. If you want something done and done right, do it yourself. To give freely, without prior instruction is love. Anything else is an errand. And that door swings both ways. So if you’re willing to assign tasks to another person’s time, you should expect to get tasks assigned to you in return.
True charity is voluntary. Anything else is servitude. Geez…people and their egos. Please me, make me happy. Pathetic. Make yourself happy and share your life with someone who appreciates your company. Cause if you have to sweat the little stuff, it’s probably really the bigger stuff making you sweat.
yes yes so much yes….and thank you!!! happy someone with common sense and dignity read this article objectively!
Liked your response. And I might add, the author suggests that the man do a lot of introspection as to why he would leave the glass, but doesn’t suggest that the woman reflect on why its so important to her. Holding someone hostage to your needs is not love.
I disagree. This author was dead on. Its the little things. I think I’ll save this article for other men to read. I do believe that both parties need to be giving, but your idea of a relationship sounded more like two business owners making a deal. Yes, your comment was logical and it is important to not expect another to make you happy, however, if it hurts my feelings for my spouse to do something and he knowingly continues to do so, that’s him choosing his own satisfaction over mine. It’s a balancing act of doing what you enjoy, while respecting your partner. That’s all this author was doing. Uncovering a part of that aspect that isn’t discussed well. I was surprised to read this article because it was everything I hated about My past relationships but could never find the right words to express it.
Maybe you should read the article again?
You must be a man…
I couldn’t agree with you more!
I couldn’t agree more, Bill. This article was a total cop out. Let’s blame the husband once again for all the failed marriages. It’s the new social mentality. Just like all the TV commercials/shows that depict the man of the house as an idiot with no common sense and the woman as the only one with any intelligence. WTF has happened to society? I feel like I’m living in the Twilight Zone!
Agree
So, so true…all of it. Trouble is, presumes a level of emotional maturity and inner-tranquility that most folks haven’t attained. This is the ideal…the author, and many more of us haven’t quite ascended. Both of you offer simple truths, to different groups. Ultimately when the time is right, all can learn, grow and operate from both perspectives. Can’t expect a one size fits all, at all times, in all places, under all circumstances. Emotional maturation and self-actualization is a process, and happens in stages. If we’re lucky, our lives are graced with spouses, friends, family, colleagues, etc., who are at or near a stage/level where we can relate to one another and help one another along the way to the next stage. Bearing in mind the “issues” and experiences, tragedies, hurts, and brokenness that may have caused us to stall or falter along the way.
It not only depends on stages, but people are taking this article and applying it to their own personal situation, either past or present. This is why there is so much diversity in replies, from both sides, and if someone sees a situation they don’t agree with, that person can become defensive, trying to defend their actions/reactions.
It’s not a “right or wrong” situation, and I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to maturity.
thank you good Bill, if someone divorces you because you are disobedient to them, then they never really loved you, fact is they wanted to swing you until you abide by their rule. People, we are different, wives nag, husbands are stubborn, period. The bottom line is unless you are willing to accept them as is then a divorce is coming your way, either way, it’s either you bend or you get the divorce!
Totally missed the point…
I hear you brother! She felt unloved and disconnected…
Many couples who have lived together long enough have their own “connection short-cuts.” On the radio, you can browse through every station until you find what you’re looking for, or you can push a button that’s been pre-programmed to the right frequency and start enjoying the music right away.
Just like programmed push-buttons on a radio, we can develop an arsenal of special actions that can trigger positive feelings that will help create an immediate emotional connection with our partner. The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman lays out a very interesting concept that helps to find the quickest and most effective ways for us to connect.
Gary Chapman identifies five specific love languages—Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Receiving Gifts, Acts of Service, and Physical Touch. His premise is that everyone has a primary love language and usually a secondary love language. While we may have elements of all five languages in our relational “vocabulary,” there is one, and sometimes two, that are dominant.
Love languages are like any other language; unless two people are “speaking” the same language, no real meaning can be communicated, and no real connection can occur. So, for example, my love languages happen to be Words of Affirmation and Physical Touch, and it’s easy and natural for me to try to connect with Marina with my primary love languages.
But even though I am always complimenting my wife Marina on how she looks and often giving her compassionate hugs, because her actual love language happens to be Quality Time, none of my actions, although appreciated, make her feel truly loved.
However, being around her and vacuuming and doing dishes bring a big smile to her face, and she runs to hug me, because Acts of Service is her secondary love language.
She felt unloved because she couldn’t get over her petty, selfish hangups. My husband and I talk about these things all the time, and unlike this woman, I am capable of LISTENING TO MY HUSBAND and considering that I might not be right about something. He is capable of same. This divorce happened because ver self-worth hinged upon getting her way. And, she ought to be ashamed of herself for guilting him into believing it was his fault when in reality it was her lack of ability to grow and change.
At what point do the women start listening to men? I mean, if they’re for equality…just sayin’.
What’s that have to do with anything? The author never once mentions her going against his wishes. Chill buddy and get yourself a divorce maybe, if that stuff upsets you so much.
Women are conditioned to be empathetic and subservient to men from childhood. We are told ‘boys will be boys’, which is a nice way of saying ‘it’s your place to let them have their way, whatever it is’. We literally spend all day getting undermined, mediating the emotional weather of a room, and letting things go not to seem ‘crazy’. So this article comes because that is already understood. It’s a societal given, so this article… BECAUSE equality. ‘Just sayin’.
“Women are conditioned to be empathetic and subservient to men from childhood.”
AHAHAHA. What planet are you from?
It’s not about “listening,” it’s about respecting.
It seems to me that a common theme is that for women acts of service mean a lot more than any words of affirmation, and for men, gratitude and words of affirmation go a lot further than any nagging or criticism. As a matter of love languages, we need to be better in general at figuring out and speaking the other person’s love language instead of trying to force someone else to see things our way.
“The 5 Love Languages” is a great book that shows how your statement is almost correct. Every person places importance on a different format of love. I’d suggest it to anyone who is starting a relationship or is having trouble in a relationship.
Man you are so right on. So many times my ex wife said It was the little things that mattered the most. Unfortunately I didn’t see the big picture at the time and wanted her to see things from my perspective. Unfortunately I missed the big picture. It’s the little things thst showed her I cared, lover, and respected her. Because of my stubbornness and unwillingness to change our marriage ended. Because I didn’t see what I now know, it’s the little things in life that make the biggest difference.
Kevin.
Thank you Kevin! It really doesn’t take much to make a woman happy and a man happy for that matter. The little things do matter and without this the relationship may be on its way to sail. No materialistic gesture can ever replace the feelings of being appreciated and loved as it is a short lived. Don’t get me wrong but I know that men love this too and it goes both ways. The secret is to be on the same thinking/reasoning path. Relationships and marriages take a lot of work and daily nurturing. To consider each others feelings and communication and “listening” to each others needs, not just “hearing” the words is so crucial to building a strong healthy loving relationship together. It’s not easy but isn’t each other worth it? Why would you be together then?
Good post! As one of the previous commenters put forth, I’m in one of the flipped situations where as the husband, I care about properly rinsed dishes/glasses, clothes management, etc… I’ll try to add some insight to the issue too, perhaps helping understand why a dirty glass (compounded) is an assault on love and respect.
Cleaning takes time. It takes exponentially *more* time the longer an item needing to be cleaned is left in a state of limbo; dirty, unexplained, and getting dirtier as time passes. If a pan is just used and rinsed (at least) as soon as it’s contents are transferred, washing it takes just a minute and could be used right after for another meal component. If that same pan were left to cool and harden, it could take several minutes to scrub and degrease. If dishes are just crammed into a sink (even with soapy water) items are more likely to get damaged, dirtier items now make it more necessary to clean other items more thoroughly…. etc. It just compounds and eats up more time with more effort and with harsher soaps which leads to dry and cracking skin on those hands in the hot soapy water.
The same goes for trash, clothes, whatever. Whenever there is ambiguousness and randomness with placement of items that need attention, it leads to more time and effort to deal with. The reason *aside* from the hygiene and effort issues is how those distractions and extra work impact other projects we could be getting to. If we’re constantly having to spend more time figuring out what’s dirty, how dirty it is, if it’s in use or about to be used again, or just spending more time dealing with it than would be necessary if it was simply dealt with immediately — we don’t have (as much or any) time or mental energy to deal with our own projects/work/etc. Mess can be a huge distraction and by ignoring simple things (like a dirty glass) a spouse can be sending the message (even if it is verbally contradicted) that the cleaning spouse’s work and time is not important or as important. That is how it is a respect issue.
If you have a glass you want to still use, identify and consistently use a space to indicate it is intended for further use. I use the top of the fridge and a color coded coaster from the Container Store to place my water cup (for example).
Some commenters really have missed the point. It is about actually trying to understand what your spouse needs to function well, how your actions/habits affect hygiene and workflow, and understanding that your partner (of either sex) probably has aspirations outside basic housework.
Understanding that parts of a house are work stations and not dumping grounds may help improve understanding of why a clean and clear area is so important. I think most appreciate blank slates to work with and it shouldn’t be that much of an ask for spouses to help keep common areas (most of a home) organized and tidy.
I could go on but this is just a comment section after all and I’ve probably already overstepped… Suffice it to say, consistent compounding of work and distraction by ignoring little acts of helpfulness, especially for spouses that have aspirations and passions outside housework, is absolutely a demoralizing “meh, screw you” and I can see how that could sadly lead to many ending a partnership. I applaud your effort in addressing these types of issues.
great rebuttal. .. couldn’t agree more
so right on. me n hub argue all the time because he always leave dishes next to the sink!!! (even after 5 years of marriage and my countless of explaining to him why!!!) the damn dish washer is to the left of the sink, i dun understand why he left washed dishes to the right of the sink instead of putting it on the left inside the dish washer!!!!
This was so beautiful and accurate and sad. I feel as your ex wife does 🙁
Ok seriously, you forgot the “damned if you do, damned if you dont” part. My wife used to nag me about things like that, so i took initiative and made sure to not do that stuff anymore. Hell, I do the dishes and laundry (she complained i didnt do them enough) and now she leaves dishes at teh sink and her dirty clothes all over our bedroom.
My wife woke me up to put a cup that I left by the sink in the dishwasher near the end of a 72 hr weekend work shift (total sleep 6 hrs in 3 days) that I did every 3-4 weekends (in addition to working 70hrs every week) to pay for the huge waterfront house that she wanted to live in. She works 1/2 time. She asked why I didn’t put it in the dishwasher. I asked why did you bounce $10,000 in checks last week? She throws screaming fit. At least she left me go back to sleep in my 8 x 10 foot office by the back door.
If my husband worked a 72 hour shift or a 8 hour shift or less or no shift at all, I wouldn’t be waking him up for moving a damm cup. This is ridiculous! Some people are not respectful to each other. I think if she took a second to put it in the dishwasher herself and let you sleep makes more sense. And you would probably love her more because you could feel she really cared about you and if she mentioned it to you later when you were more rested then you probably would be more willing to do the things she asks. People never cease to amaze me.
Hillarious! Really…woke you up?!
Who writes this crap shit. No wonder nobody can have a relationship anymore. A damn glass by the sink? Seriously?
Get over it you pansy. Men are being slammed on a daily basis.
Not boys who can’t do so much as change a tire…..Men. Because no matter what you do, can do, or are capable of….
there’s always a reason to BITCH.
I write this crap shit.
And I’m genuinely disappointed you missed the entire point. And not just by a little bit.
It really is crap, Matt. My fiancee will never tie the garbage bag into the garbage can no matter how many times I ask her. This leads to a litany of feelings in me because reasons (sorry, I’m just going to paraphrase your rhetoric into the word “reasons”). In three years this has never even hinted that there’s a love/respect/comprehension/retardation issue – simply that she’ll hold the bag up if she’s throwing something in that could drag it down.
I understand that you’re trying to illustrate the difference in thinking between men and women, but… Do all men think the same? Do all women think the same? Do homosexual couples simply succeed because all men and all women think alike, or do they have similar issues and, if so, how do you explain that? Where’s the value in this piece because it sure isn’t entertaining.
Your article reads like a “baby come back” letter, wherein you promise to put the fucking dishes away this time, acknowledging that we manz just can’t feelz like you wimmz but we’ll sure do better this time.
Hey Matt, you did a great job writing this article. Most women think men are stupid because they don’t listen to what we want. For some lame reason they think blowing us off nurtures appreciation and respect.
No, I think you have missed the point. You have over analyzed your situation and are trying to feed some crap about respect to everyone. Where was your wife’s respect for your opinion in the glass not being a big deal? Your article essentially tells men to bend over backwards to be happy in your marriage. When dishes by the sink becomes a relationship threatening topic, that means you were on the road to failure anyway. If you do often reuse the same glass then what right does anyone have to tell you that you can’t? Your ex sounds like a control freak if you ask me. I guess you will only understand once you find the right woman. All of this of course is assuming you are not an extremely messy person whom expected his wife to clean up, if that is the case then good on you for realizing your mistakes. Marriage is to make things work for both parties.
While he may have missed the point a bit, he does have a very valid one. You enter into marriage to have a partner, and yes you should enjoy doing things to help make their life easier, but at the same time you should expect the same from your partner, I will try and do the little things around the house, but at the same time if you look at sm fish’s comment, women need to pull their own weight as well, and be understanding that when a man is busting his ass working to provide you with a lifestyle that you want, and is willing to do so to make you happy, that you should give him some leniency on the smaller things. If you are irritated about the glass, take care of it, and when he has had a second to rest up and get refreshed, talk to him about it like an adult and let him know how it made you feel. You should respect the fact that he sacrifices his time(and in some cases his health in reference to the lack of sleep) to provide for you, that modicum of respect shown goes a long way and lets him know that you care. It’s tit for tat, basic reciprocity and mutual respect.
He did miss the point completely. I didn’t think the article was crap shit
Right on. Such a great reply.
the fella above this proved you point though 🙂
So. Matt. Let me ask you. Did she reciprocate? Or are we men supposed to be slaves to women who constantly belittle and berate us while driving debts up high, then getting upset that I’d rather cook in rather than put another $150 dinner on a maxed out American Express… She who never cooks, she who never cleaned, she who never once changed a diaper because it was “yucky”, she who left bowls of leftover cereal milk on the bedroom dresser so long it dried up and begin cracking like a gelatinous desert?
These are the the females that exist today. Let me lay here. I don’t want to work. That’s fine, I don’t want you to work either, but if you aren’t going to take care of a baby, at least clean up after yourself. And don’t complain when someone says they can’t afford to go out.
I understand what you are TRYING to say, but I believe in reciprocity. You can give and give and give for so long before you as a HUMAN BEING begins to yearn for some sort of acknowledgement, appreciation, or approval. Are men not allowed to feel loved? And no I’m not speaking of sex. Sex alone is not an act of love.
I take out the trash, change diapers, shovel the driveway, work 3 jobs so you can live a life you want with no working… Then turn around and listen to you complain that I work too much, cook breakfast every morning, cook dinner every night, warm your car every day, prune the flowers you wanted but I am allergic to, walk the dog… And all you offer is sex? At that point I don’t want your sex.
I don’t date anymore because it’s obvious to me one of two things. A) I can’t pick ladies… Or B) There are no ladies left amongst these females to be picked.
At this point you are probably thinking the roles were reversed in my situation… But that is not the point. You say that single solitary glass to her symbolized our lack of caring about her feelings. I say relationships should be built upon CONGRUENT and daily affirmations of love by BOTH parties. Women wanted equality and they should have it. They should NOT have SUPERIORITY and the authority to turn us into peasant servant boys who come at a snap whenever their TV show has gone off and want us to change the channel for them while we running late for work because the baby has explosive diarrhea and you know she won’t clean him. Yes she wanted the glass in the dishwasher. I feel as though you should have included what she did for you. Did she respect any of YOUR feelings? Because many females today do not.
“And here I thought I was doing you a favor by using less dishes so we’d have less chores to do and more time for fun.”
You must be single!!! That was NOT the point of this article!!! Maybe you need to reread it!
Well, I totally do the thing where I leave my glasses and occasional knife by the sink because I intend to come back to it later. At least now I’ll know why my theoretical hates-dishes-by-the-sink-husband is divorcing me when it happens. And here I was thinking that it made more sense than dirtying lots of dishes… I just try to make sure any dishes are done before I go to bed and before I leave the house. That’s pretty much all I’d expect too. It’s nice to wake up to a clean house and to come home to one,
This goes both ways…..
He must have been married to a narcissist. Where the world revolved around her, and if he didn’t wash a dish, she was crushed. But when he worked on her car, built her things, supported her, bought her a house, worked many hours, drove 2 hours a day to his job, loved her kids, all of that was lost because of a dish on the sink, or whatever little thing triggered her issues. People are not perfect, love is about always working on it and forgiving instead of letting a little things become an excuse for divorce. love is TWO ways, not what a husband could have done, but what BOTH ‘should’ have done. When you live with a narcissist nothing is good enough for them, you may do lots for them, but one little thing will define you to them, and make you some villain. And if they leave you, they did you a favor…. but this poor fellow still blames himself for her issue, he needs some therapy to figure out, he was good enough… and his wife needs some therapy so little things will not set her off and she is able to give back, instead of living a life where the world revolves around her.
Spoken by a true narcissist!
Tyler, you’re missing something. There are a million “big” things she probably did for him, too. In the household, the expectation of a husband that he can be a slob and his wife is his maid and should just pick up after him, is so wrong. I’ve been married to a slob for 42 years who stubbornly refuses to do any of the little things I ask of him–instead he throws his clothes on the floor, trash everywhere, dirty dishes not just by the sink! Once-in-awhile, when HE feels like it, he’ll pick up something or wash a few dishes. Then he expects an award! When he was working I justified it because he worked an average of 50 hours a week and made the bulk of our income. I suppose now that he’s retired, in his mind, he justifies it because his pension and SS are more than what I bring home. So, he sits around and watches TV about half the day and sleeps the other half. This is NOT good for our relationship. A smart husband goes the extra “mile” (it’s more like a few steps, really) and kindly does those SMALL things–without complaining and without being asked–that you think don’t matter, but are really essential to “helping” his wife feel respected and appreciated. And a decent wife would definitely appreciate his thoughtfulness.
I’m not missing anything. I’m addressing one issue, the nitpicking, the insecurity of the person doing the nitpicking.
I am in a different situation than the author, i actually DID listen to my wife, but the problem was she had a DIAGNOSED personality issue, and there was always some new thing that made her feel unloved, and she projected that onto me with little things , and I tried to please her to no avail.
SOme guys are jerks and want a woman to do all the work. I was NOT in that situation. I again, lived with a narcissist that chose to only look at her husbands faults to ignore/hide her issues.
I went the extra mile. I was not a dead beat husband, i was involved in our kids lives, I was always home taking care of them, i did chores around the house, the problem was not me, and it actually wasnt’ my wife, it was the personality disorder, but she chose to not work on that and to try to make me change so it would fix HER issues.
this is narcissism, and it makes the co-dependent ppl in their lives feel like THEY are the problem, the victim being made the abuser, it’s sad.
Your probably the smartest person to read this post, I would click like if there was a like button.
he never said he did any of those things… projecting? he knows what he did or didnt do and he knows that in his situ he dropped the ball. he never said this “set her off” rather i am gathering that she actually said very little about it
Very very well said!
You mentioned that he is showing her he loved her because he went to work and cared for “her” kids. Being a responsible adult that loves your kids is good, but it doesn’t show love. My husband and I both work and both take care of our kids. We also have our own set of chores and things we do around the house to maintain the household. I don’t feel like any of these things show love to your spouse though. I don’t go to work, clean the pool, pull the weeds, help my kids with homework, etc. to show my husband I love him. I do those things because I am a responsible adult and a good parent who loves my kids. I think you are taking this article a little too literally. I think the point of the article was that you need to make an effort to do the little things that show the other person that you love them.
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I confess. I don’t get it. When we keep a scorecard like this, it can only end badly..we will have a ‘winner’ and a ‘loser’…but actually we have two losers. If, in this case, she doesn’t want him to leave a glass by the sink, then she can put it in the dishwasher..or wait until he does. I’d rather my husband put a glass there and reuse it, instead of him putting it in the dishwasher and getting a clean glass everytime. So, who loves the other more? Him for putting the glass away as she demands or her for continually making him do it? We’ve only been married 38 years maybe I’ll catch on to this ..eventually?!
Bingo. If you throw the scorecards away, your marriage will be much happier. Could I keep a mental tally of every annoyance my wife committed? Sure. Do I grumble when I come home to an empty house and every light is on? You betcha. But I don’t gunnysack these minor inconveniences so I can wallop her over the head with it at some point in the future. I ignore it and move on with my day.
I agree with a lot of points you made. My soon-to-be-ex husband and I both worked full time. With overtime, I actually worked more hours than he did. But did he ever offer to wash the dishes? Do the laundry? Clean the house? Plan the meals, buy the groceries or cook dinner? Hell, I even mowed the lawn because I got tired of trying to get him to do it. I do less work now that he’s moved out and filed for divorce, and I’m happier for it.
Ummm… I agree with what they are trying to get at.. But how come the husband has to change his ways and respect his wifes putting the glass in the dishwasher as a respect thing to her? How come the wife doesn’t have to respect her husbands wish to keep his glass next to the sink in case he wants to use it again? That’s a double standard if I’ve ever seen one. I think if they used a better example instead of a glass next to the sink it would make more of an impact.
I thought this explained things very well. I am divorced and have learned that one needs to Pick Their Battles. I picked my battles during my marriage but now that I am in a live-in relationship, I tidy up more because it is important to my new man.
The glass? I could give a ***, either. Who cares? But when women tie so much up into that glass without saying WHY, that’s crazy. Men are not mind readers.
Oh boy, TF, did you even read this? You totally missed the point. Or it went right over your head. IT WAS NOT ABOUT THE GLASS IN THE SINK! …….. It was the lack of respect, the not listening, the discounting her needs, as silly as he thought they were, that made her feel insignificant. She did not just walk out on him because he left the glass in the sink one time!
My husband and I went through the same thing, though our issue was much different, much more serious. But I am eternally thankful and very grateful that he did “get it” before it was too late. It took a very painful two year separation for that to happen, but it happened.
Do yourself and your wife, or your significant other, a favor and go back and really read this man’s wise words and really hear what he was saying. Or else, if you are so hard headed or narcissistic that you can’t see or accept what he is saying, do her a favor and hit the road Jack.
Wow this is amazing. Coming from someone who also left her husband because he left dishes in the sink and just didn’t see the bigger picture because it is really not about the dishes. It is the principle behind it.
I wish I could send this article to my ex husband..but he still doesn’t get it and never will anyway. But thanks a lot…I am happy you found the meaning behind it.
So true. I honesty dont remember what the first little thing was that started my belief of no respect or his belief of no respect.But over time, this lack of respect belief, took on a life of itself, that over took our marriage and destroyed it. It became a series of things for both of us over the last 2 years, that smothered any love and hope we had for the marriage. We are now divorced after 18 years. The hardest part of the divorce is losing the best friend I had for 18 years.
This is so true! Well said.
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Spot on butnit goes both ways. Im actually the one who gets annoyed about the little things and as a man i feel she only cares about what she wants. So ad i said, goes both ways! Good article
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My husband leaves clothes all over the house. All the time. I’ve asked, I’ve pleaded, I’ve yelled, I’ve threatened them not getting washed (and followed through and had an argument on WHY his clothes weren’t cleaned ffs!) But he keeps tossing them everywhere. NOW he puts them up if he knows I’m going to do laundry, but I WISH he would just…put them away to begin with. Don’t leave dirty, or quasi-dirty, laundry all over the apartment!
Every time I bring it up, he gets pissed and says “I’ll do it later, I’m not fucking doing it NOW” and I just…give up…it’s not worth the argument, even though the blatant disrespect that I can’t explain I feel HURTS.
Kitty show him this article and all of the comments and then maybe he will get it. Like they say men are from mars and women are from venus. To see a man write this article gives me hope that maybe are planets can align.
This piece is incredibly enlightening . wonderful
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So, I had a girlfriend like this. She used to get SO frustrated over small things that I did or didn’t do, and I just couldn’t understand it, because I purposefully didn’t let bother me all the things SHE did or didn’t do that also annoyed me. After countless hours of both of us arguing, crying, and experiencing generally unpleasant emotions, I finally told her that I really think she needed to find a guy that would care about doing all the things she wanted, in the way she wanted, when she wanted, and that I was the wrong guy for her, and I left. She didn’t want to break up, but I wasn’t going to take it anymore. I guess she found that guy eventually (since she got married and had kids with him), and I met and married a woman who wasn’t such a nitpicking jerk. My wife and I both respect each other, and while there are plenty of things my wife does/doesn’t do that I don’t like, I let it go, because I like her. And she does the same for me.
Sounds like you married a pretty selfish person. Sorry about that. Look for someone less self-absorbed next time. This works much better. Trust me on this.
I absolutely LOVE this article! You are right on of why women feel certain ways. It’s NEVER just about the glass. Women truly think differently than men. I’m so thrilled to see a man truly get it! And to the ones saying negative crap, I’m sure your divorced! I can do EVERYTHING to make my husband happy, and he can’t respect me enough? Bravo on the article!
The problem is that men are not perfect, and we make mistakes, we can work and work and work to make her happy, but one small slip and your the biggest a-hole in town, relationships take two, always both making an effort to make the other happy, if she can’t look past a small infraction, and realize you aren’t trying to hurt her, its not going to work. Especially when you try to make an effort. Repeat offenses are going to happen, but if she doesn’t try and look past them then its her fault, because I promise you, she does things that upset him, repeatedly, and if he can get past it, then so can she. I’m sick of hearing so many people say the man is to blame because he doesn’t make an effort, when in truth he could be, mistakes happen, yes men make an effort to make her happy, ladies make an effort to see his imperfections and accept him. Look past the little things. It takes two, make each other happy, and don’t make mountains out of molehills.
Yikes! What a lot of Metro-babble. Your ex sounds like a character from a William Faulkner novel. “I’m going to encapsulate all of our issues in an elegant and thought-provoking manner with an innocent glass by the sink … full of dishwater teeming with bacteria, further symbolizing the festering stagnation of our ‘marriage'” You could also very well interpret this situation as: “I married a princess who wastes resources and refuses to recycle.” If you want respect, if you have a lingering issue: SAY IT. “Look, goddammit, that glass-thing you do pisses me the hell off, and another thing…” Talk. Have it out! Communicate!! You’ll feel a lot better when its over and … perhaps … you might actually generate a little mutual respect for one another when it’s done. Otherwise leave a fountain pen out in the middle of the floor where you both walk. The pen will symbolize the divorce proceeding you’re about to sign.
Are you serious! Forgive me but It’s really being very petty to get upset about a cup in the sink. If my husband had done it I would just put it in the damm dishwasher myself and let it be or leave it there until he washes it himself. People are on power trips and that’s what it appears to be to me. How about being a little more accepting of someone and their ways that are not like yours. Oh well I think a little different then others. But my husband is more important then a dish left in the sink issue or whatever.
I only say this not because of the relationship I’m in now.. but because my mom used to flip out when I left glasses out in the house… but when I moved out she started to miss it.. and when I came to visit her when I grabbed a drink I would accidentally leave it out… and when she found the glass she realized how much she missed me. Sometimes the things that drive you crazy aren’t so bad.
Is it so wrong to say that in some relationships because of the nature of the person it’s healthy to not always have the perfect lifestyle? It’s naive to think you will find the person who does everything perfectly.. as a matter of fact you could have honestly wanted to change your ways but it was just something that you missed because you’ve spent your whole life doing it. If she saw it as a sign of disrespect then maybe she wasn’t the one for you. If you wanted to try harder… then you should have. If there was ever a point where you though she might leave you for something like that.. you would have tried harder.. and if not, then maybe you two really weren’t meant to be. I’ve always found that in not just my relationships and the relationships in my family that it’s not about finding this perfect person who does everything right… it’s about finding the person whose faults you can work with. Someone who might leave wet towels on the floor or correct your spelling but you still love for so many other reasons that outweigh the negatives.. Love always wins.
When I went to visit my mom after moving out I left a cup on her table… she sent me a message that said “some things never change.. miss you, please visit again soon”. I realize a mothers love is always unconditional… but you’re choosing someone you want to spend the rest of your life with anyways… so maybe high expectations should be in order.
I’m glad our dishwasher is broken.
This is true. Sounds like you read “Love & Respect” by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs. It opened my eyes about my husband’s need for respect and it opened his eyes about my need to feel loved. Understanding and implementing this in our relationship saved our marriage. I hope things work out for you.
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Dude. According to this logic everything can be categorized as an act of love and thus essential to the relationship. Been married 15 yrs and have a great life because my wife puts up with my leaving things in the sink just like i put up with her leaving the lights on, even when she leaves the house. It is about accepting each others little otherwise annoying details that matters. Everything else is intolerance and let me tell you, you are better off without that b*tch
Incorrect. According to this logic, we care about what must be cared about.
There are dozens of defensive guys here who read 30 percent of the post and think they “got it”
I know what the headline says. I’m REALLY sorry it tricked so many people. I assumed it would only get read a thousand times by people familiar with my writing.
(Not a secret: I write using hyperbole and generalizations.)
Let me recap the post in a more direct way:
Your spouse has personal boundaries. Things that she/he cares about and REALLY matters to her/him on an emotional level.
You will NOT always have emotional reactions to those same things. Because they don’t really matter to you. You can’t help it. They just don’t register with you.
Here’s the key point a thousand guys and a small amount of wives didn’t get, because you couldn’t stop thinking about the headline: WHATEVER THAT THING IS THAT YOUR PARTNER CARES ABOUT? THAT’S “THE GLASS.”
I’m glad you’ve been married 15 years. It suggests you do not violate your wife’s personal and emotional boundaries.
There are a million aspects to human relationships. I’m aware of pretty much all of them. It’s hard to run the entire gamut in just one blog post, you know?
So I focused on one little thing. One little thing that is totally true for the vast majority of relationships.
I appreciate all of the readers asking themselves the right questions: “How might I be unintentionally hurting my partner? How might my doing so be causing these problems we’re having?”
Of course it’s not about dishes specifically. Of course it’s never just about ONE thing.
Thank you for reading and for having a good relationship. I don’t like divorce. That’s why I write things like this.
Sounds like everyone needs to read/listen to/download/youtube stream Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenburg.
He shows us a different way to communicate where men don’t have to read minds and women can communicate clearly that their need for respect, love, empathy is not met by the dishes being put outside the sink.
I’ve found when you communicate clearly, and unlearn all of the baggage, and stop expecting people to read your minds – relationships can be a breeze!
Every one please pick up a nonviolent communication book!!!!! It saves marriages, friendships and begins relationships off on a great start.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/71730.Nonviolent_Communication
I laugh out loud at these ridiculous comments from guys wanting to make a huge, grandstanding battle for male rights out of not putting a cup in the dishwasher – while at the same time claiming that it’s JUST a cup. Gee, I bet your wife is so happy… if you have one. It’s stupid almost to the point of lunacy; if it’s just a cup, stop making more out of it than what it is and put it where it belongs. It’s also funny how many of these same type of comments remark on the ego of the woman, when apparently it is beneath these men to put a damn cup in the dishwasher. You’re not a child and you’re not the king of some castle, so get over it. You’re a person living in a home with other people who deserve the same respect that you think you deserve. Expecting someone to be respectful to the other people who live with them by not being a slob, by picking up after themselves and by taking care of the things we all have to take care of to run our homes and lives is not controlling or unreasonable. It’s called being a f*cking adult. You should not have to be told. It’s not rocket science or some difficult thing to parse. It’s easy. If it really is too hard for you to do such a small, simple thing to save an argument and show respect for other people… if you really need to make it a freakin’ battle to get out of showing simple human consideration and respect for the other people you live with… if that is really such a huge problem for you, then you don’t need to live with other people.
A very sad story, on multiple levels.
Yes, some of the commentors here are missing the point that the glass is a metaphor, but they’re also right that the issue is far deeper thane ven some superficial pop-psychology notion of “respect.”
Like most things in life, people don’t ask themselves basic questions like, “What *is* marriage?” “What is the point of marriage?” “How does one wisely choose a spouse?”
Vows don’t mean anything in a culture without honor or ritual, where people “write their own vows” because the “traditional” ones are a “boring,” “impersonal,” and/or “too hard.” People get married to “love, honor and cherish [never ‘obey’!] as long as it’s convenient.” Then it’s “Till better/worse, richer/poorer, sicker/healthier do us part.”
People choose spouses based upon the most superficial things, then scoff at the idea of people marrying based upon shared values, even though it’s shown that divorce rates are much smaller among couples who share the same beliefs, attend church services regularly together, and, most importantly, those who don’t use birth control, which screws up the hormonal cycle.
What is the goal in life?
Our goal in life should be to get to Heaven, and the goal of marriage should be to get each other to Heaven. Period. Yes, just as we cannot merely say “Lord, Lord” in our relationship with Christ, we should not take our marriages for granted. Yes, we need to nourish our marriages, like our faith, with thought, word and deed. But none of that means anything if the two people are not working from the right foundation, if they’re working from the flawed assumption that marriage is something mutable and conditional.
I showed this article to my husband and all he did was tell me I should read this article:
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time
I guess we are truly far apart and I don’t think we’ll ever see eye to eye…
Right. Someone else posted that too.
They read 15% of one post and think they get it. I feel EXACTLY LIKE THEM.
All these guys are trying to flip it around and say: “Why isn’t the man’s feelings about the glass NOT being important as valid as her’s?”
I acted and said things EXACTLY like that five years ago. And what I have to show for it is a divorce.
I was a stupid moron. Allow me to explain why, even though you already get it:
1. The wife’s feelings are NOT more “valid” than her husband’s.
2. He doesn’t “feel” anything at all about a dish by the sink. What he “feels” is a desire to not have his wife criticize him for something he did or didn’t do. That makes him “angry.”
3. So, instead of thinking: “I don’t care about the dish either way, but I’ve learned that my wife does and that whoa, it HURTS her; I didn’t know it was anything more than just annoyance. Because I don’t intentionally hurt my wife, I’ll do it this other way,” he thinks his wife should simply reach inside her own physiology and rearrange things so that something that hurts her stops hurting her.
I try to emphasize how difficult it is to make husbands get it because we really do believe we make sense. And we fight and fight and fight and fight for you to see things our way instead of choosing to love you and put other things ahead of our individual, immediate wants.
Probably because it feels easier to us that way. I can’t explain it. Now that I know that it’s the exact reason 50+% of everyone see their families break up, it’s a bit discouraging to see so many people dig in their heels.
I’m glad this post was able to matter to you and many others.
And I’m sorry you’re having trouble communicating with your husband about it.
That disconnect is why most of us fail.
I wish I knew how to help.
Explaining it accurately doesn’t always work. Some people just have to experience it for themselves.
Beautiful
– a wife.
You sir…are a genius.
I am going through some difficult times in my marriage. A move across state where my wife feels totally out of her element, a new house, a new school for the kids, wife opened a business, the list goes on. Stress has taken its toll on our marriage. I have to admit, I am the one that leaves the glass by the sink. Literally and figuratively. There has been so much change and things happening that I’ve lost sight of a number of things. The most important being my wife. Her needs. Her desires. Thank you for refocusing me. All it took was reading this one post. And then reading a couple more. And then I read your open letters to a shitty husband. Continuous light bulbs going off! I’ve been shitty! I will say that my wife also sees errors in her ways as well. We are about to start couples therapy. We don’t want to lose what we have. We want to be better. Better for ourselves. Better for our children. I think it’s a normal, human mistake we have made. We’ve both been selfish. I know I have. But, we realized it. And we are committed to fixing it. A huge thank you to you for revealing a lot of things to me that I was oblivious to!
Read the blog, read the comments. It does go both ways. This marriage thing. My “starter husband” used to say, “you worry about all the small things and I will take care of the big things”. Took me several years to figure out life is made up of small things, lumped together to make this huge, seething blob of goo. After 9 years and 3 gloriously beautiful daughters, I was exhausted! So. Long story short, I upgraded. And 28 years later, I have a perfect marriage. We both take care of everything. One of us steps up, when the other one can’t. And it truly is NOT about the cup by the sink. ?
I enjoyed this article and loved the arguments for and against the ‘glass by the sink’. You sound like you understand what makes some women tick and what get others ‘ticked off’. It is lovely to have someone who is respectful, thoughtful and shares the chores with thoughfulness and a good spirit and no complaining. When chores are done with a good vibe it is mutially beneficial to all parties.
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A must read for those men cribbing about a complaining wife…
I never read anything so insane in my life. This is good example of western world feminine insanity. Divorcing over such small things show how little women really care about their husband and marriage in western world – its all just a big scam.
Agreed. This is the biggest load of crap I’ve seen in quite a while. She didn’t divorce you because you left the dishes by the sink, she did it because A) she was a self-absorbed shrew, and B) you are a spineless jellyfish who chose poorly.
Let me guess…youre divorced? This article is actually perfect and nails it on the head. What’s even funnier is YOU are the guy he describes perfectly whose sk stubborn ..selfish and stupid!
Actually,no Jack. I’m not divorced. But I had more sense than to marry a woman whose faithfulness hinged on petty annoyances.
Yep. As a woman who is probably more of the male in this situation – not using a coaster, leaving a dish by the sink – are things I occasionally do. And I don’t do it because I don’t love my husband or respect him. We’ve had these issues in our 7 years of marriage. But we are happily married and not planning on divorcing because of it. We’ve made it work.
The level of self-absorbtion in this marriage is the problem. Marriage is about compromise and making life work together as a team. You’re not going to change anyone. And it’s not your job to try to.
If a cup left by the sink can lead to feeling a lack of respect, appreciation and feeling unloved – I’d guess there are a lot of smaller or bigger things that are missing in their relationship. Communication is key.
I found this article through a recently divorced acquaintance who identified with this article. She has the lowest self esteem of anyone I have ever met. She planned a wedding to this guy before ever discussing with him. She said marry me or we’re done. And then she divorces a year and a half after marriage because of feelings similar to this. It’s not JUST the cup. It’s the relationship it’s built on that causes the problem. And being married to a self-absurbed shrewd
An article went over your head. Wow you’re dumb. Did you even read it for content?
You obviously didn’t understand what he wrote. It was never about the cup. It was about love and respect. If your wife asks you to do something small, like put a cup in the dish washer, or anything really, and she has to constantly ask you to do simple things that you ignore, she feels as though she doesn’t matter. This most likely is something that took years to build up. It would have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak. Years of being taken advantage of, years of being ignored. It wasn’t one thing, it was a collection of seemingly small insignificant things that built up. Now, that doesn’t mean this marriage couldn’t have been saved with some better communication on both parts- who knows. But it was never the cup.
Exactly how I feel!
I totally agree. Well said!!
It’s not insane. Seems as if you missed the whole point of the article. It’s not just the glass..it’s about him caring enough to actually listen sometimes and take into consideration things and the reason why the wife wants them that way. To look at it in simple terms, she may be tired of cleaning up behind him so often when he doesn’t do it himself. It’s a 50-50..not an 80-20. How does this even say women don’t care about their husbands?
So you didn’t actually read the article? Or perhaps English is not your first language? Or you’re dumb? I have my 12 year old son read this to see what he thought and he said, ‘oh that’s why you get upset when we ________. I get it now….that makes so much more sense.’
Did I mention that he’s 12?
Well said
Leaving the dirty blender and protein shake powder on the counter. Only it wasn’t really that. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back after a long, painful series of affairs. The blender felt like his way of saying live with my disrespect, clean up my messes, it’s all you’re worth to me. You seem like a better man than him.
Yep, the author is exactly right. I divorced my first husband for not understanding the concept. And married my second because he understood it front to back. First husband wondered why I didn’t appreciate his “awesomeness” and that I must be a terrible person. Second never knew what he did to land a girl like me. It’s amazing how much gratitude, love, respect, attention, and whatever-else-your-man-heart-desires you get for behaving like an adult. (And for those of you that don’t, then maybe you aren’t with the right woman. It does go both ways…)
Congrats on landing Mr. Right! and being his Mrs. Right.
Because I love and respect my husband I week put the glass in the dishwasher for him instead of nagging him because I don’t wish to feel like his mother. Also because he does other things to do his share of work to keep our home and life running smoothly. I also know he didn’t leave it there as any disrespect to me or our home but because he doesn’t see things the same way that I do.
Well said, Jaimie! That is the secret to a happy relationship!
But by putting the dish in the dishwasher you ARE his mother cleaning up after a man child. You missed the point of the article. It’s not about the glass. It could be anything that bothers you that is essentially i consequential to him. To you..the glass thing is a poor example because it doesnt bother you. But i het theres other things that do. Did you even get this?
Haha you keep saying did you even get this to people. They get it, but its stupid, And any woman who would equate a man’s innocent habit as disrespect is just self absorbed and was spoiled too much as a kid.
If both partners are equal, they will both clean up after each other. No one is the mother, no one is the father, they are both working cooperatively. Only when things fall out of balance do things begin to go badly.
This made me smile. Managing a relationship is too complicated and too important to rely on blogposts for “TRUTH”. Every person has an inherently individual perspective and each of these may be presented as having validity. That does not make them equal for all people in all relationships. We have the ability (at least generally) and therefore the option to choose our perspectives and our battles. We also have the option to simply refuse to see these things as battles at all if what we truly value is our relationship. We can refuse to allow ourselves to be wounded and our relationships damaged or destroyed, when we choose to stop seeing — or imagining — the glass as a weapon and the spot by the sink as a tactical battleground. While there is something valuable and good about the author’s suggestion that love ought to be a positive motive inspiring us to please our partner, the example still looks like a juvenile game of king of the mountain which he seems to be justifying.
Bingo. Spot on Wally. Most lucid comment in the thread, hands down.
The validity of the overarching point of respecting one spouse being essential to a lasting marriage is too far eclipsed by the authors apparent ignorance of the “battlefield mentality” that his wife chose to embrace so as to enable her to draw conclusions about the motive behind “glass in the sink” with no actual causal relationship to the actual motive behind how it got there.
The fact that Anyone in a shared living space is 100% responsible for keeping the house exactly as clean as that particular individual “wants it to be” also renders the authors hypothesis highly suspect to me.
#truth…thank you soooooo much for sharing! This is going to help so many people, man AND women! Please tell us what drove you to this realization, and what kept you from making it during your marriage?
It’s great that you can have such a loving and open minded perspective and you make some very good points. But let’s be fair here, she had some responsibility here to. Is a dirty glass really that important? Should you give these little things so much power in your life? Is that dirty glass worth putting above your feelings for your husband? In the end, she chose the glass. That glass had lordship in her life. Marriage is a two way street. It requires compromise on both sides.
Unbelievable. I asked my husband of 20+ years to move out mid-Dec for exactly (EXACTLY!) what you have written about. He is a great person, intelligent, doesn’t beat me, doesn’t cheat (not in his moral fiber, I’m 110% sure), doesn’t get drunk, tries to be a good provider, knows how to have a good time. BUT HE DOES NOT GET IT. And he hasn’t. And I believe he will not. We have 2 teenaged sons and I am so sad that they have grown up in an environment in which I am almost constantly the only one to toe the line, to be the rule maker and enforcer — and I end up labeled a bi*ch. And their male role model has prided himself (!) on being “spontaneous”, “fun”, “flexible” and showing them how to enjoy life. He has not been a companion or partner to me or my interests or concerns or worked toward any family equilibrium to forge life plans for either the kids or us as a couple. He does what he wants, when he wants, as he wants — independent of any prior agreement WE have may have made together, as it suits him at the time. Years and years of telling him that this is maddening, frustrating, non-productive, hurtful, etc have gotten me nowhere, whether I talk to him calmly, angrily, tenderly, increase how often we have sex, become hysterical, tell him with tears in my eyes. Nothing makes any impact. He says “I am who I am”.
And I am moving on.
I agree with you. Although I didn’t divorce my husband due to a glass not in the sink, it was similar to your sittuation. Nine years of marriage and then two kids later, I realized his selfish ways were disrespectful of doing whatever he wanted while I had to beg for him to be a babysitter If I wanted to do something, I moved on. Not to another relationship but to independance. If I were doing it all by myself anyways I might as well be alone. Cheers to you and your decision!
Best wishes to both you ladies 🙂
Good for you!
The real story here folks isn’t dishes, (or as some responders suggest, it isn’t trash, isn’t laundry, etc..). The real story is that two people never learned each other well enough, two people never learned to accept idiosyncrasies, and work around them. The real story is that no marriage is about any of the actions above. Marriage is about 2 people, understanding each other’s needs, wants, and ideas. Two people accepting that what one may see, as a hurdle, the other doesn’t even see. The problem is communication, if she had of, and he had of communicated they would have come to common ground. No marriage ends because of chores, if it does, then both were shallow and aren’t ready to marry anyone. Someone with OCD, needs coddling, but they also need to work on changing themselves, not expecting their partner to change, only. My mother in law, and wife both have OCD, neither look at the things I don’t do, as a negative, because they see the things I do, do; and vice versa. That’s what love is, people working together, a team. If these type of things are the downfall of a marriage, well, shallow is the word of the day, then.
Brilliant!!! This sums up so much. And I know a man who feels disrespected by the very same thing. This goes both ways. Thank you for the great insight!
I have this conversation with my husband daily about shutting the fucking bread bin.
Picking up after an adult is ridiculous. Everyone is talking about perspective. If we looked at it as two adults sharing a space would it still be selfish and unreasonable to ask any of those two adults to be responsible for keeping that space clean, tidy and comfortable?
Very interesting read. I would go one step farther with the woman’s side of WHY it feels so disrespectful to her. It is not only because the husband has heard her plea before and chooses to ignore it over and over again. It is MOST hurtful and aggravating that the cup represents the WOMAN’S responsibility. AKA, man: I’m leaving this here just inches from the dishwasher because I may use it again or it doesn’t really matter/bother me where it sits.
Woman: he left this here for ME to take care of. I guess it’s my job to clean up after him and put it where it belongs.
That is the disrespect.
It’s a symbol of her job and responsibility to take care of his mess. That drives her crazy and away.
Wow! You sir are a genius.
It’s more about this:
Man leaves cup next to sink.
Woman is aggravated because SHE has to move cup to dishwasher.
Man repeats.
Woman repeats with more aggravation.
Man sees cup as insignificant.
Woman sees cup as his message to her that it’s not HIS job, but HER job to put his cup where it belongs.
Man stays oblivious.
Woman stays aggravated.
Exactly! What men also don’t understand is that the man basically eventually just becomes something else on their “to do” list and becomes insignificant. And then when man wants something from her, all she can think is, I’m not your beck and call girl.
@matt Can I just add a bit to this? I believe and agree with what you’ve figured out as of late. For me in this situation, I work hard to keep up a clean and tidy home. I appreciate when my (entire) family helps out by not leaving the new dish on the counter, the sink, the table, the living room. I appreciate when my family wipes the crumbs they made just five minutes after I cleaned the counters and stove. I appreciate when they put things away rather than just become a cluttered mess. You get what I’m trying to say. We’re not intentionally trying to nag. We’ve been asking, albeit subtly, for years for these things to happen. We don’t care whether or not someone is coming over. It makes us feel better within ourselves that we have something put together neat and comfortably even if it’s not completely that way in our personal makeup. That is one way we can accomplish these things. I’ve found that if there’s a bit of marital trouble or maybe just can’t see eye-to-eye lately, the things we’ve asked throughout the years seem like suddenly we’ve become a constant nag. It’s truly not like that. It just compiles and looks that way because there’s trouble and blame needs to be established somewhere. Mark Gungor has really good thoughts on all of this. I’m still trying to digest some of it as it is hard to swallow. We’d all do well by dropping over and finding him on YouTube. The two brains is good as well as part 3. You’ll find all three uploaded by one user. It’d be good to share. I got a better perspective on some things and it’s only done me good for my marriage.
Then there’s the one who will find fault no matter what you do. Marriage is 100/100, but if everything is being done to accommodate one, but fault is still found, one is Not trying.
Anyone commenting about what to do or not to do with the cup is in a different ocean much less not in the same boat as this article and stuck where the author USED to be until he reflected and left the “must argue my point” habit in the shadows. The CUP could have been the dirty socks, the child’s soccer practice transportation, the mowed lawn, the toilet seat, the placing too many additional demands or her or lack of a the “atta girls” for a job well done…. the perception of petty on one side minimizing validation and gratitude on the other. This was not an article on, “oh yeah, well what about me?” It is about NOT thinking those already used habitually defeating thoughts. It isn’t even as I read it about men vs. women, it is not one man’s struggle with his former wife. It is about what are WE, the readers willing to see in our own selves that can be the catlyst for destruction in any current or future relationship and see through our perception and into the others. If the perception of the other person causes them to feel hurt in any way then love can be replaced with the argument or the point. Lets say husband is hurt because wife makes belittling jokes about him in public around their friends. He gets mad each time and she says, “oh come on, it was just a joke, everyone KNOWS I am just teasing and trying to be funny, man up , don’t be a baby, grow a thicker skin, grow a pair, stop being a mamma’s boy, you are stupid to get mad about just a joke etc etc.” Well to her it could be just a joke and some may think him getting all huffy is him being too sensitive or not having a sense of humor. But if SHE stops and thinks about the effect it has on HIM not how to DEFEND her act and dismiss him then she has done what marriage is supposed to be, loving and caring for the other the way THEY need to be loved and cared for. Sometimes we need to make small changes that seem like no big deal to us because they are to the other person … period. Arguing why we shouldn’t have to or why it is easy enough for them to just do it themselves or why we think THEY should just get over it, will never be the solution because that is not something that comes from a place of love. This is not saying to cater to every whim and be enslaved to the other in constant servitude, that backfires pretty much always as well ( ask my son who did and sacrificed everything for his girl for years, who left him recently, being catered to gets boring and they all leave). There is nothing unequal about this mans article if you can take the message, the lesson and apply to your own life to help make it better, if you cannot then you probably aren’t looking for change right now anyhow so go read about football or some musician or world news instead. Something you ARE interested in. If you can gain from this information and make your relationship more solid, then the author has done as he intended and I hope a few folks on the brink can make a turn or at least start to due to reading this, or improve what is already a good relationship and make it a great one. Remember we find what seek, if you are looking for an argument , you will always find one. Seek peace and find the way to it, for your own happiness.
Your first few lines are genius. Im reading the comments in disbeief that so many people are missing the point.
Yep. You get it. I wish my soon to be ex would read it. I’ve tried emailing him these sorts of emails. That doesn’t go over well.
@matt the main point I’d make is communication is key. Communication and truly listening. You can listen but it doesn’t mean you’ll hear. If they both listen, there’s a greater chance things will be worked out. There will be need for compromise. A man is supposed to love his wife; good #Bible study. A wife is supposed to reverence her husband; another good #Bible study. The answers are in the Bible; it’d be good for them to study and find them together.
Thank you Disney movies and Hollywood for making women (and men to be fair) like this. I’m sure this wasn’t a problem before the movie industry.
Was that a serious comment? Or was is meant to sound that ignorant just to stir the pot? I’m pretty sure that men and women haven’t had a thought process that was remotely similar to one another that dates back LONG before Hollywood and/or Disney ever started making films…lol.
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You nailed this right on the head. Thank you for articulating it so well!
The overall principal to question, is are we lead by our feelings ( feelings lie), or are we making excuses, You cannot have a holy sacramental marriage and make excuses, it one or the other, and this principal applies to both genders. Wisdom and great points here, my thanks. I made a similar mistake and did not listen with my heart.
I love this. I wanna kiss you right now.
I love this post. It’s so true! It goes both ways as well. There are little things that my husband asks me to do that I have not done in the past – like you I tried to argue my way out of them because I thought they were silly. But then I had the same realization. It’s about respecting him and what he’s requested of me. Great advice and summary of relationships! I will now be following your blog.
Okay people you don’t get it, marriage is a partnership. Women are working as well and come home and have to cook, clean, help the kids with homework, etc. This would not be an issue if you took work out of the equation. Failing to take that extra step and put your recycling in the bin, throwing away that piece of bubble gum wrap instead of leaving in on the counter, taking out the garbage without being told or putting your dish in the dishwasher is a big deal. Does the man have to tell the woman to go grocery shopping or to do laundry? Women do not want to get married to be a mom, they want a partner. And yes a man who does these things without being told is the sexiest thing they can do for their mate. And don’t just do it for a week to make her happy, this needs to be a lifetime commitment. So she did not divorce him for one dish, it was a culmination of several things equal to not doing his part. And the 4 seconds it takes to pick up laundry or take out the trash equals a lifetime of happiness. So please don’t be judgmental towards her, she married him because she loved him, she divorced him because she fell out of love.
I agree with everything you said, except for one thing….
You’ve effectively accomplished contradicting yourself in one of the most evident of ways. You say that women dont want to get married to be a mom, which I can agree with you on that. However, I don’t think men want to marry their mother, either. If you think you can “tell your husband what to do,” you’re effectively behaving as the mother you say you don’t want to be. You cannot play the role of a mother and expect a man not to treat you like one, complete with misbehaving!! In a real 50/50 partnership, you treat one another with love and respect. Bossing ANYONE around is showing a position of authority, and should never be done in any marriage if you have any hopes of longevity. Being kind, loving and humble, asking your spouse will get you a heck of a lot further than giving orders will. Taking them for granted, and expecting things to be done “how & when they are told” can land you in divorce court just as quickly as not putting that cup in the dishwasher.
About the only people I am okay with taking orders from are my superiors at work, or a person in a position of authority, such as law enforcement. If you want a good, lasting relationship, in which both parties are happy, you must treat one another as equals. Being given orders by a spouse is just as, if not MORE rude & disrespectful equates to being a bully.
Just something to think about. I have first hand experience with… if you have a spouse who puts up with that type of behavior, he or she is either spineless or counting the days to make their escape. 😉
I know you probably are tired of reading comments on this post – it was exhausting for me to get through them all, but I also thought of something that plagued me in previous relationships: Differing Standards.
One man who I very much liked and dated – had an amazing bachelor pad. White carpet, glass tables, black lacquer shelves. He was very metro. Very neat and organized. High standards in everything – even his dishes matched. If a dish broke, then he would replace a whole set rather than buy a mismatched piece.
I, on the other hand, am a country girl with tomboy sensibilities. I wear steel toed boots and I work in construction, and I don’t get my nails done, and I have animals, and I change my own oil, and I build things. None of my dishes match because I am eclectic and I don’t really care if my bowls have the same pattern. It’s not important. I don’t care if my sheets match – pick a fitted sheet and a flat sheet and put them on the bed.
You could say that opposites attract – and we fell VERY much in Love.
When he asked me to move in with him, I went into bawling hysterics. I told him that I could not measure up – I can’t be responsible for keeping his house pristine – there was NO WAY I could keep his white carpet from stains, or not have animals, or keep the dishes out of the sink. I do “country clean” and he likes “city clean”. I was scared to death!
He promised that his love for me was so absolute that he didn’t care – he could handle it. I loved him so I moved in. We both work, and he was proud of me for my accomplishments, and I tried so hard to step-up to his standards. We cohabitated for two years and he kept his promises and wanted me to marry him. I finally capitulated – we eloped in Las Vegas. Maybe my insecurities took hold: I never felt I was doing good enough. The criticisms found their way into my psyche – I gained 15 pounds – he bought me a treadmill and told me that he “doesn’t do fat chicks”. My dogs made too much noise and interfered with his sleep. The dishes weren’t being put in the dishwasher fast enough. I left laundry in the dryer. I opened the doors with the air-conditioner on. And the list goes on…
Long story short – I left. I felt like a failure. A big fat slobby unloveable failure. The marriage lasted 6 years – 8 years total. My self-esteem took a blow.
Since then, I bought a farm and I have my animals, my house is “country clean” – and my standards are just fine. My weight is just fine. I work in construction still – and I am Just Fine. I open the doors with the air conditioner on, I leave a load in the dryer sometimes, and there are almost always dishes in the sink – because that’s how I do things.
I don’t feel the need to be “Perfect”, and I never will, but I’m happy, hard-working, honest, loving and loveable, fun, funny, goofy, playful, responsible, adventurous, kind, and I don’t have any pressure to be someone that I’m not.
I like your “country clean” and “city clean.” Very well put. And I agree, opposites attract and require both parties to balance that awesomeness. I’m a pile person, my husband is a clean horizontal surfaces person. He would get aggravated with my piles piling up and would shuffle them all into a cabinet or something; I would get aggravated because I couldn’t find the thing that I had put Right Here. I now use bins/baskets for my piles. I can find what I’m looking for (once I find the bin), he has his cleared–or easily cleared-surfaces.
I am sorry that your marriage turned out how it did. Congratulations on your farm and on being happy with yourself. Thanks again for the country clean/city clean quip. 😀
Yours is my favorite comment. I showed it to my wife, who showed me this article. We talked about it. It was fun 😉
Thank you. I didn’t know if it was comprehensible. I always wondered if Prince Charming would be aggravated by Cinderella’s talking to rodents and her proclivity to cleaning the hearth. 🙂
Finding your compatible mate. Wow thanks for post .
I loved your story and the happy ending. I wish you continued happiness.
Thank you.
Great article! I just had an absolute melt down a few weeks ago for the same reasons! I work and own a business! It’s all left for me to do. My husband and son just said when I lost my mind “just tell us what you want us to do”!
That infuriated me even more. I am a very strong person and MONKYS will fly out of my BUTT before I ask for help. We all live in the same household everyone knows the garbage needs to go out, laundry, vaccume, mopping , dishwasher, etc. why do I have to ask????
I can’t articulate how that makes me feel other than its expected. The funny thing is if I see him making the effort I don’t mind doing it. It’s the not trying I mind…..I love my husband and I don’t think I would divorce him over it BUT if over years he didn’t try after I expressed my frustration it could become an issue!
Thank you for writing the article. Sorry for you it was a loss of your partner!
Lisa, I can sympathize with you as I am married with two sons. It is hard to realize that men and women think differently. I realize you don’t want to ask for help but the male members of your household don’ t think like you do. Take them up on their offers and guide them on what to do. If you have always done those other things they don’t realize they have to be done. Once you tell them or make them a list of what needs to be done you can be upset when they don’t help.
The glass goes both ways.
Wow! This is a martial counseling session!
This was an incredibly insightful article! I’m a 37 year old woman who divorced at 31 and remarried at 35. So many of the situations mentioned happened in my first marriage, and occasional even in my current one. I truly wish more men could understand this! Thank you for leading the way by trying to educate them. Unfortunately, most have to learn it when it’s too late. 🙁
To all those who realize this isn’t about a dish, thank you. Through his marriage the author did thousands of “little things” his wife felt as a little cut – this dish isn’t in a vacuum.
Also, sure this is about communication, but without empathetic perspective taking communication is hollow. Truth is fellas, women are more naturally inclined to empathize and when empathized with, most feel further connected. It takes mutually cultivated emotional intelligence to bear this out, but in a male normative environment emotional intelligence work is too often viewed as weakness. It is a gigantic strength.
Too many men are scared teenagers inside, unwilling to analyze themselves, consider their flaws, and recognize how those fhings impact themselves and others. Ie “this is who I am, deal with it”, because I’m invulnerable. Too many women expect men to “just get it”. It works for some women, the subservient, the ones willing to live in a man’s world, the naturally less emotional, amongst other reasons (to those women who disagree with me, please know I’m not specifically calling you subservient, etc). Unfortunately men often fall in love with strength, independence, and logic … and then refuse to accept women’s strength, independence, and logic when it doesn’t befit us. Being forced to live a day to day where challenge and growth through communication, reflection, and perspective taking is hard work at first but gets easier, and has astounding payoffs. You both simply have to value it.
As a man, I must also say there’s a disconcerting amount of barefoot in the kitchen thinking in these comments. Society is better off when we strive beyond transactional relationships.
Here! Here! Well said! 🙂
You help restore my faith. (Though I keep telling myself this must have been linked to from a redpill forum, because a lot of this has just been ridiculous.)
some wisdom for any women reading from someone happily married for (most of) 12 years . . .. forget the glass! ignore the glass! get over the glass! . . .trust me, having conversations/nagging/even mentioning about the glass will get you nowhere but a little more disconnected from him. no you shouldn’t have to be his mother but doing a few “motherly” things for him can be a loving dynamic in the relationship. Just put the glass in the dishwasher and assess your relationship this way : Look at his other behavior – if he’s gainfully employed/working hard, happy to see you when he gets home, tries to remember to do considerate things to lighten you load most of the time (even if they’re not the things you wish he’d do!), and wants to have fun with you during his free time (at least a lot of the time. . .let the man have his time alone!). . . .then you probably have a good man who still loves you and is trying. Now, if he expects you to do ALL the housework, ALL the child rearing, AND work 40+ hours a week. . .something is very wrong. He may have watched his mother accept this lot in life and think it’s natural or even that a woman wants to live that way and be “superwoman”. Tell him that these days you have somehow become full time homemaker/mom and a full time worker and things have gotten out of balance . .ask him to help you come up with a plan to getting things back into balance Avoid wording like “not fair”, “why do you get free time and I don’t” “i’m exhausted” “i didn’t sign up for this” and avoid crying/getting emotional. Stay calm. This is just an obvious problem that needs solved. Let him think about it. He should come back and be open to talking about either you working part time,workingnot at all and saving money on day care(but then you treating homemaking like the real job it is!), hiring a maid at least part time, hiring a babysitter on weekends so you have time to youself, he taking over groceries/taking kids to and from daycare, or other big jobs, cutting out some big budge items so you both can work less ect. . .If he has a couple weeks/months to ponder it and at the end just shrugs his shoulders as if it’s your problem, not yours… .THEN you may have a selfish man, or a man that no longer loves you, or a man that thought he wanted family life and realizes it’s too much for him, ect and may want to consider counseling and then leaving him if that doesn’t help . . . . .but in conclusion, NOT ABOUT A GLASS! FORGET THE GLASS!
You are 100% correct! Spot on. After almost 10 years, we’ve just now figured this out. We’ve never been happier.
I guess you did not understand the article, sad for you.
This is one of the most insiteful pieces I have ever read. You perfectly articulated the things women have not be able to. It’s simallr to the Break-up movie in the dishwashing scene. The line ” I want you to want to do dishes”. I am truly sorry your marriage ended but know that sharing this may save others. Thank you.
Look, I was that wife, and then I realized, “what the hell am I doing for him to make him feel validated, respected, and loved? Marriage isn’t a pissing contest. It’s all what you put into it. I have bipolar, and I was missing the fact that the entire time we have been married I was unstable, and yet, he was by my side. He never gave up on me, never abandoned me. Took care of our 3 kids, while taking basically emergency time off work to do so, and he runs a store. I bitched about all those things in the meantime (leaving his shoes around, while we have a shoe closet, which he still does, by the way), but does that matter? When I’m lying on my death bed, am I going to remember a man that couldn’t put his shoes away to save his life, or am I going to remember a man that dropped everything to save mine? He’s also the funniest human being I’ve ever met. We aren’t perfect now, but after almost 10 years now, I know he’s my match. If he wants to leave a thousand glasses by the goddamned sink, he can go right ahead. I know I matter. We both do for each other now. We also work together. It’s a team effort when things get hard, and believe me, with 3 littles, it’s hard.
I’ve been married for 48 years and put up with exactly this problem, and have understood both sides most of those years (which is why we’re still together).
A man will not read this whole article. Cut it down to a meme so it has impact. The women who read it will be like me…annoyed because I had to get cancer before he realized my feelings mattered. I mattered.
“But I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time.”
Am I the only one that thinks this sounds absolutely ridiculous?
Absolutely not! If you two are equal, why does she think it’s okay to boss you around like a child? Asking gets you a whole lot further than bullying….and I’m a female, btw. I don’t understand why any woman would think it’s acceptable to be bossy toward their spouse! Then again…I chose to work driving dump truck for a living because I can’t work with catty women! 😉
Fantastic article. As a therapist, I see this content vs. context issue come up often. People can get stuck on the context, the “cup”, when it WAS NEVER ABOUT THE CUP. You have done a great job at breaking it down to the truth of the matter. Women don’t want to be married to Peter Pan. And we don’t want to be a nag. We simply want you to handle your shit. It shows us you care. And if you are having a hard time agreeing with this article? Well, I think you might just be a Peter Pan.
Claire, love your response!
Dang people! I enjoyed the article and never really thought of any of the house cleaning (or the lack of it) as love and respect, though I can certainly see that it could be considered that. One of the comments said that marriage is a partnership, and it is. You are supposed to be a team – the both of you against whatever. It isn’t supposed to be about the girls role or the boys role, it’s about being part of a team. Sometimes you get to be Captain of the team, sometimes not. My dear hubby and I have been together for 32 years. Let me tell you, we have fought over housework – and yes, sometimes I do most of it. Though, since the very beginning I have told him “if you don’t like it then you should take care of it.” So, if I don’t dust or do the laundry or the dishes because I am busy, he does them. He doesn’t always do it the way I would and I can’t tell you how many items of clothing have been ruined, but that isn’t the point. He stepped up to the plate and took a swing. That is what being on a team is. That is what a marriage should be. Let me tell you one last thing – several years ago we had our house built. It is a very stressful time and a contractor will build your house the way you want, until he wants to do something his way. Then he will try to divide you into “he said, she said.” That is the reason so many couples get divorced while building their houses. The take away from this article should be how to stay on the Love Team – and if that means taking care of something that your spouse normally does, shouldn’t you?
Going to another level what if the women “puts the glass into the dishwasher” along with being a wife and at times feeling like the mother but carries on regardless, however later in the marriage the wife finds out the husband since they have been together and even more so after marriage was nothing but deceitful, liar, secretive and did things without the wife’s knowledge and I’m not talking minor things, yet he can’t understand why she is so upset and wants to know the answers to why he has done those things. The marriage is ending but the wife is still seeking these answers as she can’t understand how and why someone can do that to her after “putting the glass into the dishwasher” and testing and being there for him. Can anyone give the answer the wife is seeking or is it because the husband is a total moron. Wife is waiting for.any helpfuln answers
The author managed to translate all of the fighting and stress of my last marriage into one simple article. He explained things in a way that even my ex-husband could understand. He and I are dating again, and two weeks ago, he did one of the things that he used to do that hurt my feelings so bad when we were married. That behavior is a trigger for me. It brings the old emotions to the forefront, and I remember all of the pain from the past. For two weeks, he behaved like the author pre-divorce and said almost verbatim the things that the author wrote. He wouldn’t listen to me and my feelings about this situation, and really dug his heels in. After reading the article, he called to apologize and said that he understood better what he had done that upset me so much. He and I have a long way to go, and I am not sure that we will ever get “there” again, but this kind of insight is invaluable to me. No matter how many times I have tried to explain WHY this small and insignificant behavior bothered me so much, he didn’t understand. I just want to say thank you for your perspective. Keep blogging.
Loved this article. All the men posting the don’t believe what he said have wives that would agree with this article – they are just clueless. It’s not about the glass.
Wow…thank you so much for posting this. It is Sunday and I literally just asked my husband for a divorce on Friday because of what is, in a nutshell, this exact same issue. I am not a high-maintenance or needy wife. I am not selfish, prideful, spiteful or irrational. I am simply broken inside because I have been torn apart by 13 years of being the sole bearer of responsibility in my marriage. It is all on me, there is NOTHING that I trust my husband to take care of…nothing. And he has proven me right not to trust him time and time again. Resentment wiggled its way into my relationship years ago, it took hold, grew roots and began poisoning my life. I have finally gathered the courage to leave knowing I am breaking the heart of a man I love deeply but it’s something I must do for the sake of my own sanity. For the people who suggested this can be solved by simply having better communication, I wish you could have been there during the thousands of conversations we have had about these things. I wish you could have seen the disappointment after the promises that were the result of these conversations were broken, chipping away another tiny piece of my trust. We have tried counselling multiple times, we have read books on marriage, we have conversed until we were both exhausted and frustrated, we have talked ourselves in and out of a million different scenarios in which we could envision things being better. Ultimately, he doesn’t get it and no amount of communication, honesty, tears, anger or time will fix that.
I have been torn apart by 13 years of being the sole bearer of responsibility….I could have written that except it was 15 yrs for me. He thought that bringing home a paycheck was all he needed to do. I took care of the kids, the bills, the yard work, the housework, took days off for kids appointments, went to their games and concerts (he did none of this), and the list goes on. We would talk and talk and talk about things but nothing would ever change, he would make no effort whatsoever, he only paid lip service to the problem thinking that it should be enough. I left 13 yrs ago because i knew i could do well on my own, I was already doing everything and all he was doing was providing more work at home while making me feel less than and I didn’t need either! I never looked back and have been happier every day since than I was the day before and am loving being single! I’ve not ever remarried and stopped dating several years ago because all I kept finding were more men like him, men looking for mother and nanny/maid not a wife/partner.
Yes, you people who are getting so worked up and defensive over this article are clearly too simple minded to get it. Good luck with your happiness.
Claire, great ad hominem.
This might sound bogus but I read a book about the “five languages of love” which pertains to exactly this phenomenon. I think both you and that author describes the connotations of not doing these small acts of kindness really well. Marital life would probably be better if we all listened more and followed our own reasoning and logic less. Great article!
This resonated with me……my ex would just drop his dirty laundry right beside the hamper…..never put a thing in it. Would leave empty food containers on the counter within a couple feet of the garbage bin. The coffee table (his personal “desk”) was piled a foot high with trash and unpaid bills. Dirty dishes left in the living room where he had watched TV and had a snack. I was picked at constantly because I completed my education and got a good job to get us and the kids off welfare…..he said that he should notice NO difference in housework done, that the fact that I had a job should in no way be evident when he got home. Even tho for years my considerable check went into HIS account and I had to beg for $10 for gas to get to work. I stayed because I thought love would eventually conquer all. BS! My mistake was not recognizing that first figurative dirty glass by the dishwasher.
So let me throw out a parallel here. If a man says it is really important that his wife put the toothpaste cap on the tube, or squeeze from the bottom, and she does not, it’s ok if he eventually divorces her, right? Because she didn’t listen to him about something that was important to him.
Now, if the author ignored his wife on many different fronts, and was not pulling his weight at home even though both worked, then that is different. But that is not what was said here – and yes, I am aware that they used a clickbait title for the article. How come everyone says don’t sweat the small stuff? You know, save your energy for the big stuff, the big issues. I have 3 friends whose wives, after they were married and had their first kid, said “hey, honey, I really don’t want to go back to work.” That’s not a glass by the sink, that’s being run over by a truck (financial)! Yet all 3 guys made the sacrifice for their wives (and also, to be fair, for their kids), including taking on extremely high pressure jobs to bring in more income.
It’s only a parallel if the toothpaste tube makes you HURT the same as whatever she’s saying HURTS her.
When people hurt, they often go do something else. When those people are married, that equals divorce.
I can’t figure out why this is such a hard thing for people to grasp, but I know that it is because I said all this same crap, too.
If the glass by the sink = hurt, but the toothpaste tube does NOT = hurt, then the two situations are nowhere near the same thing.
When you tell your wife she’s not allowed to feel bad about something, she’ll leave.
And if you WANT her to leave, there’s not much more to say about it.
But.
If you A. Care about her, and/or B. Don’t want to get divorced, you’re going to want to draw this conclusion sooner rather than later.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for your reply. I’ll answer in 2 parts. First, the question of being hurt by the glass runs pretty counter to the idea of not sweating the small stuff. But let’s say that all issues are treated as important, whether or not they seem that way. If the author of this article had written instead that he was divorcing his wife because she was messy and he was tidy, and despite many pleadings, she still left her underwear next to the shower, toothpaste cap off, dirty dishes in the sink – I would be extremely surprised if the comments would be supportive of him and his decision.
Second, a lot of men get frustrated if their wives put on weight. While I don’t know if the word hurt is appropriate, it bothers them a great deal. But I guarantee you if a man wrote an article about how he divorced his wife because, despite his pleadings, she did not lose weight, he would be castigated as shallow and selfish, and having ignored the marital vows “for better or for worse”.
I am the author of this post, and I agree with 100-percent of what you just said.
I draw the line at believing the two are in conflict.
Listen, I write first-person stories that usually get read a thousand times at most.
Almost everyone following my blog prior to three days ago “knows” me. They’ve been following along for months or years.
They KNOW that the silly glass example was just a tiny part of one big problem.
That problem is, in my estimation, men and women operate differently, don’t always realize it, do a shitty job of communicating it, and then little things like a glass being left by the sink becomes a fight.
If you must know, I was a very selfish, self-centered husband. An only child who didn’t have to do many chores growing up. Who assumed when something didn’t make sense to me that it ALSO shouldn’t make sense to my wife.
When she disagreed, I more or less said and behaved as if she was wrong or stupid.
As part of a huge mosaic of marriage issues, a glass by the sink can be a real problem. I’m shocked there’s even one real-life adult who thinks an adult woman would literally leave on account of a dish by the sink with no other corresponding problems. That seems a totally insane conclusion.
But some people clearly do. Whatever.
When men and women are having marriage problems, a fight will arise. One of them will have a complaint. The other won’t understand.
And all I’m saying is, if we can learn to give a shit about something simply because our partners care, and not because we all agree on its merit, we can divorce less often.
This is not man vs. woman. This is not right vs. wrong.
I don’t care what single people do. I don’t care what people who are going to intentionally violate their marriage vows do.
What I care about are people like me. People who once got married on purpose. With thoughtfulness and planning. Intended to stay married. Had children. And then accidentally, over many years, made poor choices that I have come to believe slowly erode relationships and cause 80-90 percent of all divorce cases.
This is for people who are married and want to stay married but are often fighting with their spouses and can’t always figure out why.
I think the conversation is important. It’s hard to describe how uncomfortable it is have hundreds of strangers call you names based on one blog post they didn’t read thoroughly or understand. But people are having the conversation that needs to happen. So, I think this is a good thing.
Your comment just now was accurate and fair across the board. I completely agree with you. But it has no conflict with my dishes scenario, either.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, the additional context helps a lot. I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you. Hopefully your honest and public self appraisal will help others who are facing marital problems.
Absolutely amazing article. Nails it right on the head.
This is so stupid its funny. Give in to the whiney woman that complains about everything because she’s always had her spoiled way her entire life. YOU should have divorced her.
The best unexpectedly free marriage counselling I’ve ever received.
I’ll put my two cents in. As I was reading this article, I thought of several situations in my marriage: I felt unloved and underappreciated and forgotten because he sat there on the couch immersed in his phone while I wrapped all of our son’s birthday presents. I felt I wasn’t wanted because he was too involved with his phone to talk to me when I asked 2 questions on the 20 minute drive home from dropping our kids off with his parents. He never heard me. I’ve resorted to listing for him when it happens why I feel he doesn’t listen to me. I know he loves me and I know I should get over it. But when all these kind of things build up and I start PMSing and everything comes crashing down. Then I let out all my feelings. All the frustrations and hurt. And I get “that’s crazy, just be happy”. I think of divorce because I feel exactly how this article describes and how one comment explained: if I am the only one who cares about me, then I should go back to being single except with 2 kids this time. I wouldn’t feel like I’m number 2 to his phone or his family. I wouldn’t feel like I should accept that I have certain chores and I should be grateful that he changes diapers because none of his male ancestors did. I wouldn’t feel like I’m the only one who knows where the clothes go when the dryer is done. Or the only one who cares if we have time alone or not. Or the only one who cares if we kiss everytime we see each other which isn’t often due to our work schedules. I know that marriage should be 100/100. But I feel (and cannot get any confirmation on his view) that I give way more than him. I’ve told him our communication sucks. He asks why. I tell him why. I guess the conversation on was not important enough to hold his attention.
This article hit home for me. So thank you for it.
It really made a lot of sense, didn’t it? Hope you’re own situation improves. The eruption of resentments are so hard to come back from it can feel a lonely place. Good luck.
Ah, I’ve just found the rest of the comments. What a discussion this generated. Fair play!
After reading many of the comments, I’d like to bring up a theory.
The author has explained perfectly a situation which seemed unexplainable to me, but many readers can’t seem to “get it” and vehemently defend their argument against the author. Everybody, please just give up on these people, they can’t be helped. They are too narcissistic or are sociopaths and even a perfectly written article like this one will not help them. Did you know that there is probably one sociopath out of 27 people in the U.S.? They cannot be helped by an article. no matter how outstanding it is.
My husband was married to a sociopath for 19 years before he left. If a sociopath/narcissist is pretty smart, he/she can keep their survivor hooked for years without a clue that life could be better if they just got out. Many survivors will come to the defense of their abuser because certain types of abuse and control can seriously manipulate devoted people. Articles like these can help the survivor realize it’s not all his/her fault. Also, the negative comments prove that there’s nothing else that the survivor can do to make the situation better.
Now this is a theory, I can be wrong. Still, if you are a survivor reading this article, show it to your partner. I believe if he/she has an “aha” moment, there’s hope. If he/she strongly rejects it, get out.
Well put! I am the survivor of a narcissist who drug me along for 29 years of marriage. Heed this advice, if he just thinks its about dishes, get out before he screws his oh so respectful, admiring secretary!
… think about what you said… you already knew this man was narcissistic, … fact is, that’s probably what attracted you to him. Laying blame for the time you “waisted” … was solely your fault, you knew but yet you continued, … people don’t change, they may stop some things that bother their true love, but for the most part, human nature, is what it is… some people have a hard time learning from their mistakes, … it took you 28 of 29 years and apparently a secretary for you to learn. … rude of me … yes … but true none the less
Actually Chad your wrong. Most narcissist hide that part of themselves for yrs if need be and are very good at pretending and faking it. I was married to one for 9 yrs. That’s how long it took me to overcome physical mental and emotional abuse. People have trouble leaving their abusers. I feel like you just abused this lady further. What an asshole! You could have chose to not comment… to not be a jerk. But it seems like maybe you are one of them narcissistic assholes like her ex is.
There’s so much going on in my head right now. Love this article don’t know if ” He” will even read it, but good to know by the comments other people get it.?
You are dead on. Been there…thankfully for only 2 years.
Though your theory is plausible, in this case, the dirty dishes are a metaphor. It’s about lack of respect.
Its either your theory about the argumentative readers or the lowered expectations in schools on reading comprehension. Man some of these comments, ” if she left you over a glass she isn’t worth it” What full paragraphs are they skipping?
It IS a theory and you ARE wrong.
You may even be the 1in 27.
If you hand this article to a spouse and they have an aha moment, then explain to me how YOU are not the manipulator.
Live your life and let others live theirs.
The fact that I openly suggested I might be wrong is the proof I am not one of the 27, I am not the manipulator, according to the mental health industry. I come to this theory from my years of experience as a professional in the criminal justice system. I do what I can to contribute to society in a positive manner. If what little I can do makes no difference, I let it go. I don’t have any more time to worry about things out of my sphere of influence, which is pretty limited.
Wow! Well put, JBS. I was married to a extreme narcissist and he kept me tagging along for 27 years. He was very skilled at hiding it. As the author says, he made me feel like I didn’t matter in his life and it was over much bigger things than a dirty glass. We/I tried through counselling to get through to him for 18 months, but, as you have said, they will never be helped. I got out and my life is infinitely better!
That’s a good theory! Mine would very likely have rejected it as “hogwash.”
Do you think Tom Brady, David Beckham or Brad Pitt’s wife would leave them over dishes. Of course not. Once a woman does not love a man anymore, things like dishes start to annoy her. I bet his ex’s new boyfriend doesn’t do the dishes either. The women who like this crap are foolish. Do they want a lover or a dishwasher?
True
i want a dishwasher
You completely missed the point Eric…First of all Tom, David and Brad all have hired help so Giselle, Victoria and Angie really don’t have the concern of whether or not their beloved is going to “do the dishes” or not. The point was about respect of being respected. While the priviliged elite may not have to worry about live’s trivial concerns I assure you that if Tom, David or Brad disrepected Giselle, Victoria or Angie the divorce papers would be served…and fast.
Right. The hired help is what’s making those women stay 🙂 Ha!
Thank YOU for the belly laugh.
I think women want a man they don’t have to “mother”. Who is going to put that dish on the dishwasher? Is there a dishwasher fairy? Is there a woman out there who thinks it is so sexy to have to pick up her husband’s clothes off of the bathroom floor and into the hamper. The man who cannot manage to get his mind around the fact that his wife is neither his mother nor his maid doesn’t deserve a wife. I am a stay at home mom and I do all of the housework, but if I can get my children to pick up after themselves I can surely get a grown man to just pick up after himself.
Exactly. You’re not into incest, you’re not into pedophilia, no wonder your husband acting like one of your children instead of a full-grown adult partner turns you off.
Exactly, Liz!
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Thanks Eric for proving that regardless of how well it is explained, some guys are simply idiots and will always be idiots and deserve to die alone.
You really got what I was going through. Doing the same thing over and over again, after we’ve gone over it several times, cand hubby still does not get it! The good thing is that, we are able to discuss it (after I put both of us through silent days and nights) and come to a compromise. And marriage really is a lot of work, even after 25 years! More so now, because we have acquired bad habits along the way that is difficult to break. So more work for the next 25 years! I did ask my hubby to read it ( “another husband bashing article?”, he asked) with an open mind and we’ll discuss it. Thanks for this.
BUY A DISHWASHER
“Sometimes I leave used drinking glasses by the kitchen sink, just inches away from the dishwasher.”
Let’s play spot the person that didn’t read the article
THANK YOU for the literal LOL belly laugh!
If you are a man, and you are disputing the point of the glass….. you will probably be divorced soon.. I learned from it..
You are so right on point here.
You will probably be divorced regardless of anything. Your wife no longer loves you but doesn’t want to be the bad guy and say that or is afraid to leave so it manifests itself in glasses and such. Ball up women and just leave if you’re unhappy.
Just out of curiosity, Joe: (I’m completely serious.) What is it that you have against some behavioral modifications that would see your wife happy and content and making you feel respected, admired and wanted?
Why does that sound like such a horrible and unfair situation to you?
Thank you for writing this ?
Ouch….It’s all true. !
I think you just saved my marriage.
I haven’t had the chance to read all the comments yet….but I totally get it. It’s not all about the glass by the sink. It’s about a distinct attitude that the wife should just do it herself. After all, it takes a few seconds to put it in the dishwasher. What’s the big problem..? The general entitlement attitude and bad behaviour of men is obvious in so many ways. But the glas by the sink was the straw that broke the camels back. However…I only wish my second husbands fault was just being sloppy. Or leaving his underwear on the floor, or not cleaning the kitchen after dinner. Or once in awhile being late after a beer with the guys. Instead I had very different problems with this severely immature narcicist. Strip clubs, taking photos of women while at a function involving alcohol, and continually going away with guy friends to do whatever. I didn’t want to face it, after all he adored me and told me so every day and wanted to be with me ” almost” all the time. And always told me just how beautiful I was and how great my body was. Said all the right things. The trouble is I fell for the bull shit words but didn’t pay enough attention to his actions. So…..making your woman feel that she is the most important person in your world is key. A man can still hang out, have fun, and be a guy. At the end of the day, that woman needs to feel safe and loved. If she doesn’t….there will be hell to pay. The bad behaviour and attitude must be broken…..
Wonderful article and insight. Sorry for your loss. Sorry that you had to go through this to learn it.
Great, awesome, if more men and for that matter, women, the divorce rate would drop significantly!!!
Love it!
Pingback: Love this. Thanks, Matt. And it goes both ways. She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes by the Sink – Jaye Street
Men. Just get with the program: Happy life = happy wife. Pick your battles and recognize that there are some you will NEVER win. Persist with trying to win those ones and you’re just antagonizing your wife. And you should fear an antagonized wife. Focus on doing a couple of useful things around the place well and make sure she sees you doing them. And don’t do the stuff that pisses her off – however trivial it seems to you. Result: Happy life (assuming you didn’t choose a crappy wife). It might not seem fair but it’s the way of things.
(I’m a man by the way.)
Chemical or surgical?
Bob, You actually read the article and you got it! If all men had some maturity, and thought like you, there would be far more successful and happy marriages because it works both ways. If a man treats his wife with respect and love, his wife will return the favor and treat her husband with love and respect. It is just basic psychology in all relationships … not just marriages. Also, It is amazing how many of the male responses indicate they haven’t got a clue what was being said, so they respond with immature and cynical statements… many derogatory to women. Sad!!.
Each person and each relationship is different. She decided his refusal to change was not bearable. Her prerogative. I don’t think she was worth clearing a cup anyways.
Truly.
If this really is the type of stuff she left you for, then you’re better without her.
Marriage is about mutual respect… which also means you swallow your pride and accept the other’s faults. If she couldn’t accept your leaving a glass by the sink, and chose to break her vows over it, then she did not respect you.
It’s one thing to be annoyed by something, it’s another to destroy a marriage.
It’s called consideration! My husband would never go to another woman’s house and walk across her freshly cleaned floors with wet or muddy feet. However, over and over he has done this to me, even when I have asked him over and over to please show some consideration for the efforts I put in to keep our house clean. When confronted his response is….’well I’ll clean it back up’! He misses the point! Respect and consideration are huge indicators of loving and caring! If he had just chopped and stacked the wood just how he likes it, I wouldn’t go out, unstack and throw the wood across the yard and then tell him not to worry, I’ll stack it back up! That would be as crazy as it sounds, but it is the same principle! Respect each other’s efforts and give consideration to what matters to them!
Your comment is a perfect example of why this article is horse shit.
“I’m sorry I walked across your floor. .. I’ll clean it up. ”
“It’s about MUHRESPECT thougggghhh!”
No. It isn’t. It never is.
I wonder if any females that are in marriages have ever made a mistake or have any habits that annoy the hell out of their partners. It is not always the male in the relationship who has these habits.
Proof positive than men and women and not really meant to be together under the same roof.
Mark
http://minimalistlifestyle.wordpress.com
I have. I admit it. I used to talk real loud and interior frequently. I believe it comes from being one of 5 children. It annoyed my husband. We talked about it, we fought about it and came to an agreement of sorts. I would contain myself whenever I realized I was doing it and in return he would give me a gentle reminder whenever it was subconscious. It took probably a year to fully wipe it out of my habits but I can say I am now reformed. Unfortunately he still does not pick up his things. I can see the writers meaning. Socks, cups, and orange peels are frequent offenders. I have threatened to leave him before for not picking up his things. You See The writer Is right. It’s not about the cup. It’s about what the cup means to me. I don’t want to nag him. I’m not his mother or maid. If he knows that it means something to me not to have to pick up after him why doesn’t he do it. Simple answer, because he doesn’t care that it means something to me. He doesn’t care.
If this is true, that he does not care, then there are bigger issues at play here. I get it. I know that at 45, and having been on my own for a few years, there is NO WAY that I could live with another person. Am I lonely? Yes. But I would rather be on my own than in a relationship that does not work. Been there. Never again. I hope that things work out.
Mark
http://minimalistlifestyle.wordpress.com
“She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.”
But if your method didn’t agree with hers, she wouldn’t talk with you, she just left you, mouth agape wondering what happened. And then, because you’re a moron, you write a post about how it’s all your fault. Or because you want other women to like you, you play out this wish fantasy on your blog. Sad really.
Real adults talk with each other, and find ways to work together, rather than demand the other is a mind reader.
If ‘putting the cup next to the sink for logical reasons’ isn’t a system your ex-wife shrew liked, she could have said ONE TIME (not every time, just one time): “Hey, it would make me happy if you changed your system to put the cup *in* the sink”. A loving husband would then adjust his system to make her happy. You’ve excluded the middle in this terrible essay trying appease the memory of your ex.
Congratulations for setting up husbands to be divorced by selfish women who will point to this essay telling them “oh, if he really loved you, he’d read your mind”.
Hint: ruining other relationships won’t fix your broken one. Grow up and treat others as adults and expect them to do the same to you.
To the moronic commenters saying “IT’S NOT ABOUT THE CUP”, you’re lying to yourselves. The cup is the example symptom of a whining woman demanding the man read her mind, and the man who is so deluded about adult relationships that he’s convinced himself that he should be able to read minds.
And of course this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
So if he wife says “hey it would make me happy if you changed your system” & the husband ignores the request & continues to leave the cup on the sink then he IS an ass & not worth her time, right? Because “a loving husband would adjust his system to make her happy”
And I am unclear – does Matt ever say in the article that his wife did or did not ask him to not leave the cup on the counter? Your comment implies she never even opened her mouth to make the request & instead expected him to read her mind. If I had to guess she asked – more than once – was ignored & then stopped asking for fear of being labeled a nag.
You are dooming more marriages than you save. You certainly have some good points about going above and beyond to try to make your partner happy and feel valued, but much of these posts is just sexist garbage railroading ALL men into a category of “shitty” husbands. I am sorry it took her leaving for YOU to realize you needed to try. One word for you: communication. Not mind reading or doing everything hoping that includes the one thing that might set here off. I will not claim that men and women are the same, but both sexes are on a continuum that overlaps. All men are not assholes that shirk responsibilities like childcare, housework, and emotional availability to their spouses. Some of us don’t stay up late watching football or playing video games not caring about our significant others feelings because we don’t understand them. Yet we still deal with these very problems. I have tried your mind reading technique for well over a decade with very limited success. All people are different. We all have different needs and expectations that are better communicated to each other in fair and honest ways rather than a guessing game set up to prove how much we love them by knowing exactly how we think. We are all products of our own upbringing and family structures. Hopefully, people can realize this before they get married and get to know and love their partner for who they are. We all have faults and are not perfect. I agree that efforts need to be made to change things and do everything in your power to show love and appreciation for our partners and to show their feelings are acknowledged and valued. News flash. Men have feelings have well apart from the sexual needs and blowjobs you seem to repeatedly bring up in your posts. It hurts me to recieve an article from my wife calling me a shitty husband and pigeonholing me into being someone who just doesn’t care because I don’t understand her feelings or maybe react and express myself differently than she does. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Nothing. And then to see there are 12 more “shitty husband” articles telling her how terrible I , we, all men, all husbands are and that if only we’d stop playing video games and start guessing what their needs and feelings are and it will be fine. Relationships are hard sometimes. Life is hard sometimes. I got to know my wife BEFORE I married her. I ACCEPTED her faults and loved her for who she is and not for who I wanted her to be or thought I could change her into. I decided I wanted to spend the rest of my life with this “flawed” individual and committed to do everything in my power to work through any issues that may arise in our lives regardless of size or scope. I realized that all people change in different ways along this path of life and committed to always finding the trail we could both walk upon. We are very different people. I found we complimented each other well. I will stop rambling and just say that your situation was your situation. To imply that all or any men are exactly like you is a disservice to everyone. I learned far more from the comments following your blog posts than from what you wrote. That’s not to say we shouldn’t go above or beyond as you suggest, but rather to say of course you should do this. That’s what people who love each other do. That is COMMON SENSE to me. I bet you did that early on in your relationship or she wouldn’t have married you. It’s when we stop doing that that things start to fail. I have never stopped doing that. I have never stopped caring. You didn’t need to learn to read her mind or do menial tasks and housework without being told to save your marriage. You, and probably her needed to learn to communicate in meaningful, honest, and loving ways. Stop kicking yourself (and the rest of us shitty husbands) and pick yourself off the ground and move forward with your life using the lessons you learned. Obviously I don’t know it all or I wouldn’t be getting emailed blogs about being a “shitty husband”. I will never know it all. I accept that. I will keep trying as hard as I can to show her I love and appreciate her and care for her more than anything in the world and hope she can see that. I believe there are a lot more men like me out there than you think and that categorizing men as assholes in general does more harm than good. Good luck to you in the future Matt. I hope you find that special someone and that you continue to value them and your epiphanies long after the Cupid flies away and life becomes less exciting and more mundane. This is how marriages survive. I will commit to continuing to do the same.
This is exactly how I felt in my marriage. It’s not about the glass. It’s about all the little things that add up over time. I was married for almost 20 years and as people commented, marriage takes compromise. But you can’t compromise with just yourself. If you have a partner that isn’t interested in changing or working together then the resentment eventually builds. Then the day comes where a simple glass or plate left out, laundry on the floor, not helping with the kids becomes a really big deal. I felt so unnoticed, unappreciated and unimportant that I eventually gave up. Hard to keep trying to get a partner to want to be in a partnership with you. I completely respect if people don’t agree with the article but it’s not necessary to be cruel. Everyone has their own experiences, troubles and pain. Not our place to judge. Some of the biggest lessons I learned from getting divorced is that you never know someone else’s experiences, there’s two sides to every story and that I have absolutely no right to judge someone else’s choices when it comes to relationships. This article put into words what I felt for a long time and it was a really painful time.
In my own experience once he understood that it wasn’t about the dish, it’s about respect and appreciation, it stopped being a battle. We both work long hours and coming home and seeing all of the things that need to be done, and having to tell him what they are AGAIN, is exhausting. No one has ever died from a dirty dish on a counter and in the big picture it’s a small matter,I get that, but if no one ever did the dishes, they would never get done. Seeing things left for later made me feel like they were being left specifically for me, which was insulting and hurtful. Now that he understands that I know it isn’t the end of the world, and I understand he wasn’t meaning to leave things to me to take care of as if I were his mother, it really isn’t an issue. There will be dishes on the counter at times, but they aren’t sitting there for someone else to deal with, they are sitting there for any number of reasons, none of which are to be spiteful or to cause disharmony.
I would be happy if my husband’s dishes would just make it any where near the sink. It usually is in the livingroom or he piles them on the island. Which looks worse. Preferably I would want them in the dishwasher. So, to me you have to pick and choose your battles. My hubby does pitch in with housework and many many things. There had to have been other issues to leave over something that simple.
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Just leave his tools out to be ruined or fail to care for something that is important to him…..and this “partner” still can’t make the comparison of his actions.
Good read. If that “partner” can make that paradigm shift in thought process and act accordingly, the partnership might be salvage.
I was married to a narcissistic sociopath for 21 years, with traits similar and worse that the example in the article. I could not understand that the intelligent person I was married to could not understand the toxic patterns of his behaviors, even though he could “council” others of this very thing.
Finally walked away and relish my freedom, every single moment!
This post is NOT posing the solution to your problem. It’s not a magic potion. It will NOT make your man do what you want. It will NOT make you do what your wife wants.
It’s a plea that if “the conversation isn’t working, then change the conversation!” It’s the first opening step in a new dance, which starts with a shift in perspective, that’s all it is. A lot more (mutual acceptance, self-awareness, good communication, faith and trust) is probably needed to finish the dance.
Sure, the title is controversial clickbait (and social marketing genius), and the gender labels isn’t exactly what a good marriage counsellor would do, I don’t think. I think the vehement arguing is, in my humble opinion, the author reaping what he sowed. Because people will react to the media sensualization as if it’s claiming to be the solution, rather than a new opening move.
I really like this article. The only thing I would add is that a woman won’t generally feel hurt by the abandoned glass until it becomes a regular occurrence even after she told him why it bothers her. It’s the disregard of her feelings and words that cause the problem.
Well said Kelly. If you don’t clean up after yourself or help with the daily chores you are essentially saying that your time is more valuable than your partner’s time. So while you go off to do something that makes you happy your partner is essentially left behind doing chores and feeling resentful.
Wonderful article! You are so right about how women can be over what are seemingly such small things. And it’s not just husbands, your own children do some of the same things, especially as they reach their teen years. How many times did I finally break down over such simple things, crying, yelling, the veins on my neck standing out and then I was called crazy?! I began to think it was how I communicated these annoyances that was the problem. It’s not about the dishes, laundry, child rearing, etc. That is all you need to know! And just for the record, I know wives who are the culprits, they don’t get it. Thankfully for me, my children have gone on into adulthood and my husband and I will celebrate our 38th year of marriage this year. It helps if you keep learning, have some patience, listen and heed what you hear. You are a wise man and if you don’t figure this out about the author after reading this article, I’m not sure there is much hope for you.
I’m a woman and I don’t think or act the way the author describes his ex-wife in this story. I often leave glasses next to the sink, in the sink, and in the bedroom myself actually. My husband and I take turns doing quick clean ups during the day, whenever this is needed. It’s all about being open minded and easy going as opposed to hyper-controlling it seems to me.
But what if your partner would literally never take his turn in cleaning up and it was ALWAYS you for years at a time? Then him leaving more crap out for you to clean up every single day would start to feel like an insult. It’s not being hypercontrolling to weant your partner to contribute to cleaning the house by cleaning up their own mess, not yours or the kids’, just their own. Not really too much to ask.
Thank you! Really! You get it!! Thank you!
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I just cannot believe how well this article expresses my situation. I have been married for 20+ years, and in mid-Dec. I asked my husband to move out. He is a good person (doesn’t drink, isn’t violent, is as faithful as a puppy and is incredibly romantic). But as others have commented, it is not about “the glass”. It is about years of not being acknowledged, of being continually ignored intellectually, emotionally, and in the “practical” area of sharing a life and home. As well, I have watched over time the effect this has had our two sons, now teenagers. Over the years my concerns and complaints about his egoism within our relationship have fallen on deaf ears. It doesn’t matter if I have complained in the form of a rational conversation, tearfully or even a screaming fit. He unilaterally modifies all and any plans (whether for us as a couple, his personal plans, or the stances we take as parents) to suit his needs. The reasoning is that he is the way he is: “creative”, “spontaneous” and “flexible”, and I that I am unable to appreciate or understand it. The result is that he appears fun loving and I only know how to toe the line.
I am moving on, and in the past month I have begun to experience a sense of calm that I forgot I could enjoy. The relief of not living with his chaos (physical or mental) has been more emotionally rewarding than I could have imagined and I don’t know why I didn’t make the move sooner. He says I don’t love him anymore. I say that love is not part of the equation here. It’s about emotional maturity and respect for the other, about the sharing and respect of time and space that one agrees to when starting a life with another individual. Without that, what does love matter?
You have summed up the 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman. Nice.
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The difficulties of marriage where the smallest of things become the catalyst leading to the destruction of the greater good.
Let’s look at some bigger things.
How about a firstborn dying at six weeks of age from Hypoplastic Left Heart. Being married for about two years at the time with this emotional painful visitation of death when there should have been life. There were plenty of opportunities for blame that could have led to the ruination of our marriage. But for the grace of GOD we go on.
How about Breast Cancer that almost got away from us. A wife who painfully asked for me to abandon her for someone more healthy….. After so many years being married to Sherry, I have become hard wired to what makes her tick and what makes her tock. It was completely unthinkable for me to even entertain the abandonment idea for even a picosecond.
I just girded up my loins and commenced to drag her into and out of a years worth of treatments to get my wife back from deaths jaws. When she couldn’t pick herself up to go, I picked get up and we went. Folks, that is the meaning of agape love.
Now that love was reflected in my direction as well. I certain some of you know of my own health issues that in the last year have come near to doing me in. Wifey has seen fit to doing what she could to keep me around. I guess she must be hard wired to what makes me tick and what makes me tock.
Hmm I have to say, I don’t agree with this at all. Every situation and marriage is different. Even if you showed her “respect” by putting that glass away, she would have found another reason to divorce you. I did everything you said for my wife, I respected her, I took care of things around the house, I made her life a little easier everyday. In the end she still left me because she wasn’t “happy” no reason to why and no chance for me to make things better. So in the end I believe that some relationships are just not meant to work out, no matter what you do and you think you can do, some times it’s just not meant to be. Another thing is that I was to one to nag her about dishes but she never listened to me but I would never in a million years think of divorcing her for that.
When she asks you to put the dish away, let’s say you do, then what, she’ll ask you to do this and that and end the end she’ll probably still divorce you. What is she doing to make the relationship work? You say that men need to do all these things for the wife, what is the wife doing for the man? Fact of the matter is once she stops loving you, it’s game over. You can give her the world and wouldn’t matter.
Do you get that he’s talking about his personal situation with his particular wife? Which is not identical to your particular situation with your particular wife?
Women are human beings. I’d like to think this is obvious, but a lot of people seem to miss it. As human beings, we’re pretty highly variable, and of the women who were married and leave their husbands, they do so for an awful lot of reasons, some of which are more sympathetic than others, to put it mildly. Some women are damn near saints, some are self absorbed narcissists… and everything in between. Just like men. What worked or failed for you and your wife is a different situation. And while I’m happy to believe that what the author proposes wouldn’t have worked for you, there’s no reason to believe it wouldn’t have worked for him.
This isn’t a panacea. It’s just a personal epiphany the author shared that has struck a chord with a lot of people. It sounds like it’s doing some people a lot of good – but that doesn’t mean it would have done you any good, any more than cold medicine would have helped you with a broken arm.
It reminds me of some things in my marriage… but I don’t think it would have helped me. Being able to articulate what bothered me was never a problem. My husband agreed to many things, for that matter – he just didn’t keep those agreements. In the end, one person can’t make a marriage work.
Finally. ..someone understands. …thank you.
I disagree with your assessment. I think that the situation you’re describing is a symptom of something larger. Let’s be honest, to fight over the respect you get from putting a dish is fighting over scraps of respect. I would say that if you’re in a “glass by the dishwasher” situation, the solution isn’t putting the glass in the dishwasher, because then it will become a “folding the socks inside out” or a “leaving the toilet seat up” situation. The real issue is that there is no *display* of respect, in a way the wife can see and understand (assumedly the respect is actually there)
He: “I love and adore you. Marry me and I will spend my life giving you things.”
Me: “I love you, too, but I will not marry you nor will I live with you. We will never cohabit.”
He: “Why not? Nobody will ever love you like I do.”
Me: “I do not wish to spend my life arguing over every single thing in life.”
He: “Then teach me!”
Me: “I’ve spent the last two years trying to teach you. I no longer believe you mean you want to be taught, I now believe you really mean ‘convince me’ when you say that. I do not want to spend my life arguing with you.”
He: “Then you need to find a better way to teach me.”
Me: “No.”
He: “But I love you.”
Me: “No.”
He: “But I’ll give you everything.”
Me: “No.”
He: “Nobody will ever love you as much as me.”
Me: “No.”
I read this and was reminded of all the things my ex-wife would complain about like this before we went to marriage counseling (which failed) and then got divorced.
In retrospect, the dishes by the sink were absolutely “the real problem”; not that she (a physician) was sleeping with another doctor in her practice (who was also married) while he was treating for chronic Lyme disease, heavy metal toxicity and adrenal fatigue.(these problems didn’t really exist).
Btw: our child was also being treated by the same provider for non-existent problems.
Thank you so much for this insightful post and pointing out what really matters. Looking back, it really was the glass by the sink… That my mother-in-law left there.
First off anyone who believes she divorced over dishes is a fool. She got out and used that ridiculous excuse. Secondly, if by chance it was the factor,, she was completely syco. Be glad she’s gone and feel bad for the next guy.
No this is not why she left him, that was made clear in the first paragraph. That was HIS former excuse to say why she left but then he soul searched and decided not to play that game anymore. It is all there in the context.
OMG …. If you didn’t read the entire article, and didn’t understand the symbolism of the glass, then don’t reply at all.
… ok… the real problem… for all to read into … it was what one comment touched on… it’s not to do with the glass, it’s to do with “not being in love with him” … regardless of the reasons for not being in love … as one stated, it was the last thing that broke the camels back,… to think that it was “only one issue”… is wrong … it is a plethora of things that cause a woman to “fall out of love” … and he was too blind to see it… on his own… and she was expecting too much, … yes “too much”… all humans have a cause and effect reflection… cause: love and lust for one another… effect: do things to prove such, … now, after she chose to leave for lack of proof, she will ask herself “was it justifiable” … she will “in her mind” say yes… but then and “only then” … will she ask herself …how was it… then she may be stubborn to herself and say, he should have figured it out… wrong answer. Go back, and think again, … did you have a conversation with him and let him know and make him understand by means of communicating the way you used to? if not, then blame yourself for your choice. if you did, and he refused to understand the point … blame him, your decision was justified. For those of us men that can make a decision to based upon the contents of a conversation, communicating with the woman you love and respect, you shouldn’t have such problems, … unless you fell out of love with her … and most importantly. …! For both parties…, not giving your partner the opportunity to understand you or your requests… through communication will “cause” inevitably divorce or separation. Cause and effect… no communication = no relationship.
Oh my, totally what I have been going through.
I am not saying this is wrong or what ever but I have to ask why.
why are women “DEEPLY wounding his wife and making her feel sad, alone, unloved, abandoned, disrespected, afraid, etc. … ” by a drinking glass in the sink?
Connect those dots and you’ll be able to stop having confusing relationship problems.
Thank you for asking the right question.
I love this and will be sharing! Not only do I think it may help my husband understand me a little better, but it helps me understand him a little better. Most of the time he does a wonderful job of making me feel safe and respected but we do have the same fights too…
Thank you!
I think this was written by a woman. I think it is very well written and 100% spot on, and had to be written by a wife.
Nope. I wear boxers and everything. It just finally all made sense one day. I wish I’d been more thorough in places to address some of the challenges, all of which are based on false assumptions.
Thanks for reading.
If I explained the problem with the glass in the same way the author suggested, my husband would say, “that’s a bunch of bullshit. you’re crazy.” and dismiss everything I said as if it meant nothing. His ego is larger than the national debt, and he’s unwilling to admit any wrong on his part.
While I agree with much of your theory, I feel that it does not address one important factor: Many womens’ expectations rise to surpass the proclivity of their husbands. It’s never enough. One man’s “glass-in-sink” scenario is another man’s “work-overtime-get-kids-make-dinner-help-clean-do-dishes-but-forgot-to-pick-up-dry-cleaning” and both are treated as equal failures. The issues go deeper than house chores.
That reminds me of how my *mother* treats me. 🙁
I’ve told her, sometimes with tears in my eyes, over and over and over and over again how upset some of the things she does make me and how much it hurts.
Telling her something that doesn’t make sense to her once, or a million times, doesn’t make her “know” something, *or even bother to remember that I said it in the first place*. The next time it comes up, it’s as though she deliberately took the memory of the last time I poured my heart out to her and dumped it away from her head.
Right or wrong, she would never feel hurt if the same situation were reversed so Mom doesn’t think her daughter SHOULD hurt. It’s like, she doesn’t think I have the right to have an emotion until after she thinks it first. 🙁
I still love her because she’s my mom, but if I had a boyfriend who acted like that too I’d dump him for it immediately. Having to endure shit like that from Mom doesn’t make me want to invite even more of it into my life. 🙁
Great article
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time
No what those actions say is that you expect a woman to do the housework while you go out and do important “guy” stuff. As if the outside work were more important than her. Men do great things, but so do women. And when we enter the workforce, we expect to be treated with respect, as we do in the household. When you leave dishes in the sink, you are saying, “oh she will just put them in” as if you have more important stuff to think about. I shows thoughtlessness. And it is such a simple thing. I am glad you learned your lesson.
Wow. You missed the entire point of the article and in doing so proved his point on this even more.
It might not have been the explicit “point” of the article, but Joanne took something more out of the article. She’s right though, because it speaks to how women are “supposed to” take care of the private life (home, children, etc), while men go out into the public to work and be the breadwinner. These historical gender roles are still prevalent and women are sick of it, since now we’re expected to get a job AND still take care of children and the home. After work, my dad comes home, dinner is made for him, he eats and watches sports, then goes to bed. My mom either works (part-time teacher) and cooks dinner, or books appointments, takes care of us kids (when we were younger), cleans the house, etc etc AND STILL has to cook dinner. Would it kill him to offer to make dinner one night? No, but that’d be one of the things that shows her that he appreciates her, more than saying “I love you” does.
In short, great, relevant, well-written article!
I am trying to figure out the “point” of this article…Is it that a man cannot be expected to remember that he should not expect his wife to wait on him and clean up after him or is it that a wfe is “unreasonable to expect that? Maybe he could use a paper cup and toss it in the garbage or maybe buy more cups so that he could put one in the dishwasher and not be worried about not having one for the next time he wants a drink….Or maybe they should both leave all of their dishes by the sink and just buy new ones whenever they run out…or reuse the dirty ones. Most parents try to teach their children to pick up their own garbage so why not the father/husband?
Or. Just maybe, Ann. It didn’t REALLY have much to do with dishes at all.
Preach.
So I have a quick question. Not saying I believe my partner is my maid but let’s say for example I ask her to pick up some smaller tasks around the house because I’m working doubles to make sure that that we can properly afford our life style. Let’s say in order to achieve the goals we have set that this is necessary…. Now she starts fighting about the dirty glass, or an extra thing around the house she had to pick up because my time has become increasingly limited. Should she be so blinded by this fight for mutual respect, love, and validation to see that it’s possible she puts both of our futures in jeopardy? Should one person work themselves down to the bone due to a rigorous work schedule and then come home to a battle becuase someone doesn’t feel validated? What if I came home after a long workday to someone who has been watching TV all day and has let something that was your responsibility but you asked them to pick up go undone because they felt they weren’t being respected for the extra tasks? If the tasks it takes to support the life style together are equal then I believe this works. Other than that a relationship is a dynamic environment that has to be adaptable on both sides. Maybe I’m bringing up a separate issue though, a relationship dynamic where two people are not adaptable enough to make things work was never meant to last and this goes for both sides.
Thank you!
No, you’re missing the point. This isn’t about you coming home after working hard and then doing *her* work of making dinner or doing the laundry. This is about YOU using a glass and not bothering to just put it in the dishwasher. Or you choosing to eat a candy bar and leaving the empty wrapper on the counter, a foot away from the garbage can. There’s no reason you can’t put it in the garbage can, but you choose to leave it on the counter, like you expect her to be a servant. Even if you decided, as a couple, that she will stay home and do the laundry, make meals, clean, etc., it’s not her duty to pick up your garbage. You chose to eat a candy bar and the garbage can is right there. But you leave it on the counter and that’s where the disrespect is. There’s literally no reason on earth you can’t throw away your own garbage. So it’s laziness and disrespect. When you do this repeatedly, treat her like a servant instead of your partner in marriage, you are telling her she’s not worthy of your respect. Throwing YOUR garbage away does not take any extraordinary work on your part. It’s your garbage. There garbage can is right there. Garbage goes in the garbage can. Throw it away. Don’t leave it on the counter. It’s not that hard.
There’s a difference between asking her to take care of some small things while you’re working a week of doubles and consistently expecting her to do things you should do for yourself. “Hey hon, since I’m working doubles can you put the garbage out this week?” is one thing. Leaving your candy bar wrapper on the counter, a foot away from the garbage can, is not ok, regardless of how many hours you’re working. See the difference?
I wish I could give India a “thumbs up”……. Why is this not a thing here???
My fault, Val. This blog theme has limited functionality. When I picked it, I didn’t know anyone would actually read it.
I think the real point of this article is to show how easily a mans ego can be bruised after he leaves an emotionally destructive relationship with his partner. Obviously this guy has had a large amount of anxiety and self doubt stem from this, while his wife seemed to be sure enough to treat him like shit and leave him dead. Why didn’t she just clearly state her intentions? Thats emotional fucking warfare. Now woman latch onto his words like a vulture feeding on carrion stating that this is what they want. Sorry if society has distorted your perception of logic and created a segment of humanity that acts purely based on emotion.
The overriding point is that we should do things to make our partners feel loved, appreciated and honored, and keeping score is counter productive to a happy and long marriage. So what if I’m busting my ass to keep us in our preferred lifestyle? If I have the chance to do stuff for her I take it. There isn’t really my things and her things to do in our life and relationship, they are all our things and as such how could I expect her to always do something that is equally my responsibility in a shared relationship. Now there are some things that she is better at then me and other things that I’m better at then her, but that never enters into it when we do things for each other and for the relationship. I’ve been married nearly 19 years and life in every way is infinitely better sharing it with with her as a part of it than it ever was in my single days. That’s too good to give up for any reason…
Oh Ken!!! Too bad you are already married, or I’d ask you to marry me!!! Finally!!! A guy who “gets it”!!!! <3
Women (and men that get walked over) need to put on their big girl (boy) pants on and think about equality and fairness for a moment – something feminists tout and men can just as well – in a relationship:
Caring about HIM = not freaking out about a “glass on the counter”.
Also, a “glass on the counter” DOES NOT MEAN HE DOESN’T LOVE YOU. If you don’t get that you may have some growing up to do…..
Yes, It’s That Simple.
If your willing to settle for that. Ita not about maturity or having to grow up. Its about a woman knowing her worth and not settling for anything less than knowing she can count on her man to be there and love her in every way she wants and deserves. So if something as simple as a glass needing to be put away for me I want to know my man is willing to do the simple little things and capable of handling the rough things. Knowing your loved and treated like queen. Treat your man with the same respect and treat him like your king. That’s unconditional love.
OK, so long as a man can know his worth and not settle for anything less than knowing he can count on his woman to not nag him “about a glass on the counter” and love him in every way he wants and deserves. So if something as simple as not freaking out about “a glass needing to be put away” I want to know my woman is willing to get over the simple things that don’t matter and be an adult. Knowing your loved and treated like a king, etc…..that’s unconditional love.
This. Right. Here.
I know he mentioned above that men tend to rationalize the small things by looking at the grand scheme of things, while women often don’t see it that way… But I just can’t agree with that. EVERYONE (men and women both) are responsible for having enough self-awareness to realize when they are drawing conclusions that have no causal relationship. If someone doesn’t have the capability to reflect on a situation, express their concerns to their partner, and come to a solution or compromise…
>>They probably shouldn’t be with another human being 24/7/365 for the rest of their lives.<<
I agree with you. My husband and I don’t complain about petty stuff because it can eventually end a marriage. He’s the only one that is working right now and when he comes home, I have almost everything taken care of and what I don’t have finished, he helps me. I don’t complain about him leaving a dish in the sink or is clothes on the floor. Our MARRIAGE is an equal partnership.
All my life my parents have taught me that if I’m going to have something else to drink, rinse the glass out and set it beside the sink because there is no reason to dirty more dishes if you don’t have to.
But in all my husband doesn’t treat me like a slave and no he doesn’t expect me to get everything did, but I do what I can.
Men can’t expect women to take care of everything at home everyday with out having her some “me time” and women can’t expect a man to work hard everyday and then want to do stuff when he gets home. If he does help when he gets home, more than likely he realizes you had a bad day or something went wrong, or your just not in a good mood.
Marriage is 100/100 not 50/50. IF you give all you have into your marriage and your husband/wife gives all he or she has then the marriage will last.
This is a really good article.
Whilst I appreciate your intent and agree with much of what you are saying, you need to connect the dots a little further.
If you don’t put that glass in the dishwasher, or that plate, or the cutlery, or anything else you use (because, let’s be fair, there is always more than one glass), who do you think will have to do it in order to fill the dishwasher and run a load so it’s clean for next time? Or so that there is room on the counter to prepare the next meal? You are disrespecting her by creating a build up of more work that she will end up doing, not because you simply did meet her request or expectation. Given that women do a majority of household and child care related chores, regardless of if they are also working outside of the home, the last thing they need is to also have to clean up after you too. Especially when it is something you could’ve taken 4 seconds of your time to do.
Just more proof that most people should just be alone.
I agree 100% with this. Just look at all of the comments on this post and not many(any?) agree on what the issue even is. “he said, she said”
Mark
http://minimalistlifestyle.wordpress.com
Simple solution, use paper plates, bowls and plastic cups and utensils
Amen….someone with common practical sense to find a solutio.
It doesn’t matter what kind of utensils and plates you use if you leave them all over the counters and dinner table after you’re done eating.
I think this applies to both men and women. There are examples of things my husband asks for that I don’t always want to do or feel up to it but he has verbalized what he needs from me and I need to be serious about those things as much as I expect him to be. It’s not 50/50% it’s 100/100% and once you figure that out it saves a whole lot of heartache!
First, my husband doesn’t believe that a man wrote this article. Our discussion then devolved into why it should be ok to leave a drinking glass in the kitchen. He has no clue about what it means to respect me. He stormed off after telling me that I leave dirty dishes around the house “all the time”. Men are not psychic. They are psycho. :-p
I, literally, feel some guilt about all of the arguments this has set off for the VERY reason this post was written.
It’s one massively sad irony festival.
No Matt — You should feel no guilt! I think your article thrusts people into looking — really looking and understanding! — the dynamics of the relationship they have with their spouse/companion. It makes them seriously see if they are responsible for their part of the relationship. And there are bound to be some arguments and heated debates as their comfort zones (read complacency) get tweaked. Some people can see/understand what you’re getting at. And some cannot, and will not.
Your article is amazingly insightful. Thank you!
Thank you for that. I was having a phone conversation with a friend who echoed that very sentiment.
I think this article is awesome!!! Those who read it and still are closed minded to consider their partners feelings, deserve what they get. I hope if they do find themselves alone; that this article rings in their head and maybe THEN they will learn something. You rock Matt!
How much manual labor does your husband do on a daily basis that requires more physical exertion? I am sure a lot but you females want to complain about a dish in the sink. We do not have to see it your way because you are women and just because this article was written doesn’t mean your side is true. We men get tired we look at it like really? I have been shoveling this 3 feet of snow while you stayed inside a warm house but you complain about dishes? Well then get your a** outside and shovel the snow, trim hedges, chop down trees, mow the grass change the brakes etc! On top of that, we have full time jobs as week, gtfoh!
None. He works full time but so do I plus a second job that is very time consuming. I do shovel snow, I trim hedges I do yard work I mow grass I fix things around the house. I clean. I do dishes. The cars get worked on a mechanic shop not by anyone in this house. You are making a mean comment that implies all men are very hard workers & all women are not & just sit around & nag & complain. Sorry for whatever your personal experiences have been but what you are saying is just not accurate about “all men” or “all women”
Erik – are you shoveling snow EVERY day? Do you mow the grass EVERY day? Apparently you must have a forest in your yard and you should probably get those brakes looked at if they require attention EVERY DAY!!! I’m not saying that all that stuff isn’t important but you don’t have to deal with it every single day! I suppose you do all the grocery shopping, cooking, laundry and other household chores too. Don’t complain about doing the “man jobs” until you’ve walked a few weeks in her shoes. I’d trade my husband places in a heartbeat if I only had to do the “man jobs”
You may be valid in YOUR situation, but not everyone lives with a “real man” that makes them feel “taken care of” or even available to assist when needed. But I also see the other side, where the woman expects her needs to be taken care of and doesn’t feel the need to reciprocate.
I live with a person that does NOTHING to help around the house; no matter if he is working or not. Even when I was the only one employed, he did nothing without be TOLD to do it, and sometimes being nagged and/or threatened before he would lift a finger. Before an injury from a fall that resulted in permanent damage, I shoveled the driveway while he sat playing video games! He doesn’t drive so he felt that he wasn’t obligated to shovel since it was MY car, and not his! Since my surgery, I still have to nag to get help and he seems to think he is exempt from most chores.
But regardless of what I say to him about how I feel about his lack of consideration and sharing the chores; it’s a huge matter of disrespect that he thumbs his nose at my most simple request. I’ve had this conversation with him many times that he needs to be my partner, and not an adult child that I am forced to take care of. I had even made him move out for two years; taking him back after he convinced me that he had learned his lesson. He had just told me what I wanted to hear, and not learned a thing.
So if this is the case for anyone, they would probably feel relieved to be divorced from such a person! Sadly, my man will NEVER “get it”. He will never truly be anything but a boy; not a man. If he ever does read this article, he will see it just as you have; another plot to convince men that women have a valid argument for their “petty” complaints. But if you DO value your wife, and you find that these kinds of “petty issues” are coming up; and if it’s truly not a big deal; then why not JUST DO IT to show your wife that how she feels isn’t a trivial matter to you?!
What is more important to you? Being RIGHT; or keeping your wife happy and your marriage in tact?
Do you get that this is a situation that has nothing to do with the lives of a great many women? To the extent that it seems kind of laughable, almost as if you’re writing from an episode of “Leave it to Beaver” or something? (I’m not saying this isn’t true for you, or the people you hang out with. Subcultures are different. But clearly I’m not the only person who’s going “Who is this guy?!”)
The last time I lived with a man who did a disproportionate amount of the outdoor work, it was my father. And, um, look, I’m not going into details, but he’s not someone I’d recommend y’all emulate, ‘kay?
My husband? Well, as I did all the housework and yard work, I think I can do a really good comparison of how much work was involved in each! And that was with a chunk of land, as opposed to your city lot. (Also, I almost killed him before he started paying for a housekeeper out of his personal account. We were both working full time – which was the important thing. As it happens, we were also living in a house I had bought, and I was the primary bread winner as well. I mean, mind you, we were both overpaid software professionals, so the differences were not as great as they might have been for other people.)
My recent male housemate? Is actually the only person I’ve lived with as an adult who has similar neatness standards. He was very good about being responsible for his own messes. But I did do the majority of the outdoor labor. And took care of the car maintenance. (And generally a bit more of the indoor labor, though some of that had to do with differing ideas about what needed to be done, and I’m fine with it – I actually enjoy keeping the place up, I just don’t like feeling like I’m being taken advantage of.)
I’m hearing from a lot of men who seem to think that they’re slaving away at the office all day to support the little women (news flash, most women do work these days), or that their work is more important because they do it with their big muscles… but seriously, in a lot of relationships, women do hard physical labor as well. If you’ve found someone to play traditional gender role games with, hey, far be it from me, everyone has their fetish, but you can’t expect that the whole world runs that way.
Is this written by a woman, pretending to write as a man? I think so.
Good grief. Hi. I’m Matt. I have a penis.
I don’t want guys who want to stay married to get divorced. Divorce is hard. It’s bad for kids.
This is how I try to help. Sorry it doesn’t make sense to you. But it will make your life better if you exert a little effort into figuring it out.
Good luck.
Hahaha….that’s a funny thought.
Very good article think all relationships can benefit with good help.
This article is excellent. You absolutely hit it right on the mark! Thank you for having the mind and heart to work toward this understanding and the wisdom and courage to share it with others.
Nothing but a woman’s B kisser
How about people just pick up after themselves. It is all about respect. If you want to live lie you are in a frat house, don’t get married to anyone but a fellow slob
This is for all of you clueless women! How much manual labor does your husband do on a daily basis that requires more physical exertion that brings about tiredness and sleepiness? I am sure a lot but you females want to complain about dishes in the sink. We do not have to see it your way because you are women and just because this article was written doesn’t mean your side is true. We men get tired, we look at it like really? I have been shoveling this 3 feet of snow while you stayed inside a warm house but you complain about dishes? Well then get your a** outside and shovel the snow, trim hedges, chop down trees, mow the grass change the brakes, etc! On top of that, we have full time jobs as well. You want some respect well respect us and all that we do that requires more time and energy that you do not have to do thanks to us MEN!
Wow, you sound like such a winner. And I’d say it’s safe to assume you’re single…and will be for a loooooong time if that’s your logic. You’re looking for a slave..not a woman. So ignorant.
Nope, I’m sure not single, I am married with three kids.
If washing a little bit of dishes is slavery man those slaves sure have it good!
Your whole comment is way off and wrong lol. I work my a off for my wife and kids and she appreciates it. There is something to do everyday in my house whether is washing clothes, cleaning the bathroom etc.. I do those things as well. SO I DO THE STEREOTYPICAL MAN JOBS AND WOMEN JOBS BUT GUESS WHAT, MANY OF YOU WOMEN DON’T DO WHAT WE DO I just don’t do man jobs. ALL of you in retaliation to me need to shut up because what you don’t seem to understand is THIS MAN HELPS WITH EVERYTHING. MANY OF YOU WOMEN DON’T MOW GRASS etc. YOU LEAVE IT FOR YOUR HUSBAND TO DO OR BF AND YOU KNOW IT! My point is, when I do have to do those things that require a lot of energy while my wife is sitting in the house, I don’t need her complaining about dishes being in the sink during this same time.
Your ignorant for the simple fact that you would complain about dishes while your man is working like a horse outside, that is my point.
Actually, my husband works behind a desk, in a bank. In contrast, I’m the go-to woman for a wide array of things, ranging from helping the kids get dressed over fixing technological equipment to putting together furniture. Not to mention all the menial household tasks such as cleaning and doing the dishes. Also gardening is one of my responsibilities… And all the while, I look after three kids, breastfeed one full time, potty train the other and make sure yet another does his homework on time. And if at all I find any time to work on my novel, I do it. Also, up until our third was born, I also worked full time. While doing all of the above.
So yes. If my husband leaves a glass somewhere he shouldn’t, it spells disrespect. But he knows better now, ever since he took over just looking after the kids for a month and suffered a burn-out the following month. A good way for seeing things in a different light is switching tasks for a while. I am certain that working as an advisor for a bank is intellectually challenging (as is writing fiction, because contrary to what people might think, words don’t simply flow on paper – or writing prompt – and arrange themselves in an esthetically pleasing order… But hey, that’s not the point here) and dealing with customers in the context of banking is fatiguing. So I respect the fact that my husband needs to wind down after a day’s work. But I do demand equal respect for the work I put in.
Erik I responded to your first comment & now I see you’re repeating your rant so I will say it again. You’re making hateful statements about all of these women who sit around in warm houses & complain about dishes in the sink while their manly men work their asses off outside – I will say it again (as several other women have pointed out) – not every woman has a man who’s outside busting his ass. Many times the women are the only ones doing all the work around the house AND shoveling snow (on top of working regular jobs) while the men sit around & do next to nothing. In those examples, YES, I feel like she’s allowed to bitch about a man who can’t even bother to pick up after himself & put a damn glass in the dishwasher.
Women think that they’re so “in tune” with emotions and relationships, but thats just their narciscism talking. In reality, they’re so self absorbed analyzing the world inside thtir head they forget that other people have their own lives and emotions. The author of this is clearly the wife, and she’s so self-righteous she even thought she could pose as the man and accurately portray what he was thinking and feeling. She just projected her opinions onto his perspective, and thinks that will convince her perceived enemy (men) to empathize and change their ways. So why was the wife unable to overlook and learn to love his flaws the way he learned to appreciate her? What about all the sacrifices he’s made for her? What about all the accomplishments he’s worked for to impress and support her? What about all the time he spent daydreaming about her and figuring to grow closer with her? With things like the dishes, leaving them by the sink is a force of habit. He’s been doing it for 30+ years, by now its muscle memory. It’s an involuntary action, he isn’t making a conscious decision to piss you off. Have you ever been super tired and starting driving to work instead of the store or wherever you meant to go simply because you were driving down familiar roads, so you started to follow the route you take every day just purely out of force of habit? Same concept with the dishes.
I was in tears as I read your post – it perfectly describes my relationship (or lack of) with my husband. I’ve been married for 39 years and learned fairly early on that my husband was resentful of anything he perceive as “telling him what to do” and would stubbornly not do it. Like putting his glass in the dishwasher. We have been in and out of counseling over the years with no success. I finally got to the point where I had to decide whether to leave him or stay and just accept the situation as it is. I chose the latter, but now am constantly second guessing myself. It’s an incredibly lonely life. There is something that resembles love that connects us – or maybe it’s just the shear number of years we’ve been together – but we are no longer (if we ever really were) partners in any sense of the word. His lack of any sort of respect of me and what was important to me lead to a complete breakdown in our physical relationship years ago. I no longer have any trust in him to be able to care for me in any way other than material needs. Our marriage is a total emotional, spiritual and physical vacuum.
Men, this young man know’s what he’s talking about!! Please, please, please listen to him!! Even if you don’t agree with him. Especially if you don’t agree with him. I guarantee, as long as she’s not a head case herself, your wife/partner will respond ten fold to your new found consideration of her and in your respecting her (what you might perceive as minor, nit picky) needs.
Thank you.
This is an excellent article and this comment comes from a wife who recently celebrated a 39th anniversary. It’s all about respecting each other.
One of the best articles I have ever read.
Wow. I would never notice a glass by the sink. It could rot there and I might notice when a tree begins to grow out of it or something. There is so much more interesting going on in life to distract me from the stupid glass.
But then, I am divorced. Maybe because I am a lousy housekeeper. lol
Good stuff! 🙂
That voice that says, “Son of a bitch I have to do that bullshit thing for my wife again” is not an entirely invalid voice and it’s important not to attempt to replace it by bullying it over with “oh wait I need to be grateful (or else)” You give your power away when you are not operating from your own internal sense of inspiration. So when magnetics invariably cause push pull dynamics in a situation you can rely on your own innocence.. with plausible deniability you can begin unravelling their strange notions that worldly conditions could ever change your love for them. In truest sense, Love never asks for anything.
As the wife in this exact scenario, I can confirm that this article is 100% accurate. What blindsided me is that I sensed something was wrong, but couldn’t name it for many, many years. We evolved from him not noticing what needed to be done, to him doing what he was told to do, to me tiring of being the house manager (not a partner) and just deciding to do everything myself. This lead to years of building resentment. Ultimately, when you feel single in a marriage long enough, you decide that you might as well be single, and that is how you divorce over a glass by the sink.
I HAVE my spouse’s acknowledgment, respect, validation, and love. And he has mine. We both do the very best we can as we run an average of three loads a day through the dishwasher and four through the washer and dryer. We always have dishes in our sink and a huge basket of laundry to do! This couple should come be in charge of my family of seven (four with disabilities) for a while!
ask yourself this- if you went to your buddy’s house and he told you “dont leave the empty cans on the counter- throw them in the bin”- inches away. You would do it. And he wouldn’t have to nag you every time, just the once.. So i call BS on the whole IDK it bothered you. You knew. You didnt care and THAT is why she left you.
The problem with that analogy is its not a guest in his wife’s house. It’s his house too. They are partners and it is THEIR house. While you should certainly do what one another request to please one another if you truly care about them, if this situation were reversed would you be criticizing her for simply not doing whatever the husband wanted? There is a fuzzy line between asking a partner to keep your wishes in mind and telling them they must do something the way you want it or else they’re going to hate you for it.
I disagree that this is not a good analogy. It’s exactly the point! If you wouldn’t treat your friend or even your family like this; why do you think that it’s acceptable to treat a partner this way? You are supposed to LOVE them and want them to be happy, right? It should definitely go both ways too! Otherwise why even stay together?
I have a man that doesn’t do a THING to help out and can’t make it to the trash next to him to throw a wrapper away. This is not something he would ever do at a friend’s or even his mother’s house, yet he thinks he is exempt from helping at home, though I’m often the only one employed and also the only one who does chores. I feel that his lack of picking up after himself is not only forcing me to act as his “mommy”; but it’s saying that he has no respect for me, where he DOES have respect for everyone else. You think I will play “mommy” the rest of my life? Not likely…
I appreciate this. Women don’t care about petty things… an argument with a woman is ALWAYS about something deeper.
It means to me that it works both ways! The woman and the man should always feel like its a blessing to get the opportunity to show each other love, respect even With the small things that may not seem important to us but is very important to the other. AND WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, IT IS THE SMALLEST THINGS THAT COUNT!
I so agree! Those little things like making him breakfast in bed; running a bath with candles and a glass of wine for him after work or shoveling the drive; etc. are things I LIKE to do for my guy, even though I worked full time too!
But to put up with him thinking it’s my job to pick up after him, do all the cooking and cleaning, with not even an assist with dishes after (no dishwasher); screams “unappreciative little boy” to me. How hard is it to do small things to show you care? How disrespectful to leave things you could easily do for yourself, to your partner who might have had just as hard of a day, or even worse than you have had? All those little things I ENJOYED DOING for my man, will be gone for good if this is how he treats me!
Respect and appreciation is a VERY sexy thing!! Someone already commented, the most sexy thing to hear from your partner is, “I’ve got this!”
This is a familiar theme these days. Total narcissism in the American culture… Unable to communicate on the most basic level, we fight over inconsequential details of our mundane existence. Unable to function in a deteriorating society, we take the frustration out on the person closest to us. Desperate for love and connection, we drive away those who we need the most. We build trainwrecks out of dirty glasses. Get fucking real.
Being married is about a lot more than living together, but if you’ve ever had a roommate, you’ve probably had a fight about dishes in the sink, or paying the utility bill, or keeping the house clean. These things are important, and different people have different preferences. I don’t enjoy picking up my things in the living room, or remembering to put dishes in the dishwasher when I’d rather leave them by the sink in case I use them later, but I put them away because it’s important to the people I live with, and it makes the house cleaner. I can always get out another glass. The important part is respecting other people’s preferences and doing things you don’t want to do sometimes, because it makes living together much easier. It’s about getting along as people, and it’s a life lesson, not just for romance.
Yes! Yes! Yes!!
I have had my share of roommates that didn’t pull their share of chores or paid their share of the expenses. I actually had one that threw out my flatware because they were too lazy to bring them into the kitchen to be washed. I would have PREFERRED they leave them in the sink! I guess I was lucky they brought their trash out, except that I might have been able to see they were throwing out my utensils and fished them out of the trash.
I went onto replacement.com to purchase more forks as I was down to two vs. twelve I started with; only to find that each dinner fork in my pattern was $20.00/EACH!!! I was short ten of them!!! This doesn’t include the spoons that were missing as well. Needless to say, that I don’t have matching forks OR that roommate any longer!!!
So true. My ex couldn’t understand the clothes BY the hamper was a respect issue NOT a clothes issue.
Amen to that. Try living in my shoes, picking up dirty clothes on the floor EVERY SINGLE DAY, when there are hampers on every floor of the house. That’s not just a problem about dirty clothes on the floor anymore.
If she is upset over dishes in the sink and can not talk reasonably to you about it, it is over. In my former marriage I responded to my wife over issues like dishes by doing extra things around the house. Near the end of our marriage I did the dishes,cooked, cleaned,read to the kids at night, gardened, did the laundry, vacuumed, washed the floor, made the kids lunches, took out the garbage, bought the groceries. I also worked two jobs to support the family. When my mother asked my wife what she did she said “go Shopping”. She wanted everything and would give nothing back. Respect needs to go both ways.
Seems a lot of people missed the point of things happening in relationships that men do not see the importance of, as much as a women. Yes, most men work very hard, however most men act as if when they are done working for money, they are done for the day. Most women do not have that pleasure in life. We work for a paycheck & take care of our homes. Most women are born care takers…of our children & our husband. We do it because we WANT to, we WANT everyone around us to be happy. This isn’t just about a GLASS BY THE SINK. It’s totally about men understanding what I just said above & realizing that just maybe, their wives need the same care & consideration that they give daily.
And to the guy shoveling 3ft of snow while SHE stays in the warmth??? Chances are she’s in the warmth doing laundry, cleaning something or preparing a meal for you and if not doing something for you, she’s probably playing, teaching or disciplining your children.
I’m a woman, my household dynamic is slightly different than most. I work full time, go to school full time and my husband stays home and cares for our children. You men saying that you shouldn’t have to do these little things because you work all day are ridiculous. Me taking care of my family financially does not make any one of them my birch. Least of all my husband. If I cook food, I clean up after myself. When I come home we tackle the house together. On laundry days we fold clothes and put them away together. On my days off I sneak the baby out of the room in the morning and let him sleep in and relax. I would never come home and make extra work for him just because I am tired or had a long day or think that it “doesn’t matter”. Me picking up after myself and our children when I am home acknowledges the fact that this home is HIS work place. It reminds him that I appreciate him and all he does for us. He would never come to my job and go behind me making messes that I have to clean up, so why would I do it to him? We have a wonderful marriage, full of love, respect laughter and physical attraction. And as long as we validate each other’s feeling the way we do. It will remain that way. Let’s talk again in 10 years, we’ll see who’s attitude works out better in the long term.
Too bad most of the people who “get it” seem to be women, and the men think it’s a big plot against them to justify being a lazy wife.
I’d love to see where some of these men will be in ten years! Unfortunately, the women that don’t leave, will likely stay because of esteem issues…
REALLY…people are without, water, food, shelter,etc… some no arms or legs, riddled with disease, trying to survive theatres of war….get over your pedantic, pathetic selves.
Everyone read this 10 times, please. Because it’s true.
Gratitude and perspective can change everything. Instantly.
Truth. One Love Matt.
This is so bizarre to me. Why is this automatically assumed to be a ‘man’s’ issue? I am female, and it’s the complete opposite with me and my husband. I’m the ‘messy’ one, and it can leave my husband with similar feelings that the wife was feeling, even though that has never been my intention, I am just too busy with work most days – he usually understands. He would never make a big deal ab dishes by the sink though, that’s where they are supposed to go when they are dirty! When both of you work full time jobs I think it’s a bit unreasonable to assume everything will be spotless at all times – that border’s on obsessiveness/neurosis more than on reason. You should avoid catering to someone’s neuroses, discuss them openly rather than giving in to clear lack of reason. Even if the writer did what was expected of him, it would have still likely led to resentment and a possible divorce.
If a glass by the sink can produce the feeling of not being treated with respect, then maybe it’s time to do some self-inquiry. Why do you need the feeling of being respected so much? Why do you even think that a glass on the kitchen counter has something to do with respect? What does that say about your self-esteem? Really? All it needs to make you feel lousy is a glass by the sink?
I know we hate feelings like fear, helplessness, disrespect, failure, being rejected. We’d rather avoid these feelings (and ask husbands to not provoke these feelings) instead of facing the real question: Why do I feel that way?
Your husband’s job is not to make you happy. Your happiness is your own business. Happiness and respect it’s not created by arguing over dirty dishes. If you don’t feel respected than maybe you should start by respecting yourself and your feelings.
BRAVO!!!!
While I agree we are all responsible for our own feelings, don’t we have a right to ask others to contribute to our joy by NOT triggering our known triggers? When there is mutual love and respect it should be a pleasure to be able to give the gift of joy and pleasure. When there is hate, contempt and resentment, the relationship becomes a battlefield where it is more desirable to set off hurtful bombs, refusing to contribute to another’s joy… Because they don’t deserve it. They didn’t earn enough points. They can’t summon the emotional energy to care. It’s not up to another to decide whether your triggers are valid or not.
Well said “unpackagedlife”!!
I totally agree with your battlefield description. But I don’t think that I have the right to ask another person to change for me or my happiness. Where would that leave me? “I only can be happy if you ….! And if you don’t than I will in return ….!” That is exactly where the hate, contempt and resentment comes from. A joyful relationship is full of joy because both partners are happy with themselves. And they elevate each other to greater things because they love their partner to succeed in whatever they are doing. They don’t wonder who’s turn it is to bring out the garbage. They just do it. I think a loving partner does not tiptoe around triggers. A loving partner helps to get over them and make your life a better one.
As a female I learned a lot from this article, and no I did not just learn that I am in the right by expecting my partner to put his dishes in the dishwasher. I also learned that when he asks me to do something for him, I should do it to show him how I love and respect his needs just as when I ask him to do something for me, he will because he loves and respects my needs.
This article is not saying “You should put your dishes in the sink as well as work and earn all the money and help with housework because your wife should not have to lift her finger for you” it is saying “Your wife probably already does a lot for you and you should make sure youre doing a lot for her too”. If you feel like you are giving constantly in a relationship while never receiving anything but anger, then maybe you should have a nice civil conversation and say “Hey I feel like I do a lot for you but when I ask for your help you never do anything for me” and then respect her feelings and help her to see and respect yours. You shouldnt expect your wife to do all the housework just because you go out and have a job, many wives either have a job too, or they cook all your meals, do your laundry, sweep your floors, and care for your children. Without your wife you would either be doing these things yourself, or you would be paying someone else to do them, hence it is a JOB as well.
This is not a man trying to be on the good side of women by saying this, you could easily swap the pronouns and have this be written for the opposite gender. Just respect eachother and be adults and have normal adult conversations about your needs in a relationship? Stop feeling so entitled and start working to make your partner as happy as possible, and they will in turn do the same for you.
i wish we could ‘like’ comments here.
Me too. My fault.
There will always be the “outliar” stories to prove a point. I have to admit I completely understand the point being made but didn’t before. I now understand the glass theory, both ways and why the “glass” is so infuriating. You should apply the “glass” to whatever item that is the tip of the iceberg in your life. Love it.
I relate to this completely. Thank you for trying to explain this “respect” issue–it’s not about the dish by the sink! Some people will never “get it” but maybe one reader (male or female) will.
Great article!
I believe 100% that it goes both ways. Men and women have their own specific requirements for feeling respected.
I guess my only issue is the expectation of knowing what these specifics are without having a reasonable grown up discussion. Expecpectations MUST be verbalized, without accusations or comparing what ether person does work wise. If a man/woman can’t verbalize their wants/needs in a respectful way, they are just as much to blame when they don’t happen. If you start off with complaining about the time or stress or physical work a task takes, then it is actually YOU who are making it about the task and not love or respect.
wonderful post!!!!!
“When you choose to love someone, it becomes your pleasure to do things that enhance their lives and bring you closer together, rather than a chore.”
No shit….. Both partners should feel fine putting the fucking glass away. It’s about perspective. Ok, have the conversation about what could be done, but don’t make it a focal point. Accept strengths and weaknesses. Focus on the good things about your partner. If she wants to focus on a fucking glass and choose to be upset about that instead of focusing on the good then adios. Every person you know is going to have some annoying habits. Get over it!!!!!
This article is dead on! Im sorry that you couldn’t save your marriage in time, but I hope that this helps others save theirs. This is exactly what it means to us as women! You hit every nail on the head. I hope it helps you in your next relationship.
This reminds me of the time when I did the hoovering but didn’t put the hoover back in exactly the usual position and my girlfriend /partner stubbed her toe on it so it was my fault she stubbed her toe! When I said, quite naturally ‘did you look where you were going? ‘ that didn’t go down well at all. Because of this post, now I understand why! Thanks.
A friend helped me stumble upon this article and I really enjoyed it. Reading it knowing it was coming from a man that went through marriage and came out divorced, and that this is where you stand is really helpful for men like me that are still married. I have to agree on a lot of your points and this stuff happens all the time. I’m constantly confused about why small stuff affects her so much but remembering that it’s probably something deeper helps me to see past ‘the glass on on the counter’.
I am interested in one of your points. You mention you will never ever care about the glass being put away, but at the end of the post you talk about how when people get married they are now believing that someone else matters more and they should love and serve them and take pleasure in enhancing their life. To me this second belief is going to be a change in thought as I think most people care more about themselves (like you and the glass) and we have to change our belief and habits to serve our spouses and think of them before ourselves. Now if this is what you mean then I would say that either 1) you would eventually care about that glass as you grow your character to be more selfless and caring about what your spouse cares about or 2) you know you are stubborn and are also committed to not change anything.
I know you’re divorced now but I’m interested to know if you had stayed or with a future relationship how this will work for you. I would think that if you could change your mind on a overall level to take pleasure in serving your spouse then you would start caring about ‘the glass’. Would you change?
May I also mention that I am so sick of the phrase “Happy wife, happy life”. I mean, what is that really saying??
Mark
http://minimalistlifestyle.wordpress.com
I don’t think you and I see eye to eye on this stuff, but I do agree with that.
Men placating wives as some sort of life hack to avoid being hassled is total nonsense.
This has never been about being subservient to spousal demands, though a lot of people are accusing me of that.
Step 1 – Marry someone worthy of unconditional love in respect.
Step 2 – Provide unconditional love and behave respectfully.
Step 3 – Enjoy wife being happy.
This is how you achieve “happy wife, happy life” status while expecting and receiving mutual respect and not compromising personal values.
I am just curious about the fact that we never seem to hear the opposite phrase. Maybe because it doesn’t rhyme 🙂 I am 45 and have been single for a while now. FOR ME it is better. A lot of my friends who are my age(male AND FEMALE) are in marriages where there is no mutual respect. I don’t know if that can happen. Thanks a lot for commenting back.
These are good conversations. Just to reiterate my position:
I am not a “get married” advocate. People should do whatever. None of my business. But I am a major “stay married” advocate.
And I do believe these ideas can help people to that end.
I don’t like that saying either and I’m a female. How about, “To keep your love, put them above.” Then it can go both ways as it should be. Also, I don’t think you have to be married to show respect for your partner.
My experience, from a husband and a live-in partner, has been that if I voice my objection to something only to have it ignored, forgotten, or not taken seriously; then I feel disrespected and used. If this continues, and my words fall on deaf ears, eventually I’m gone. Period.
I enjoyed this article. I am sorry that it was too late to finally see what was going on. Let me let you in on a little secret……Women dont always KNOW why little things like that bother them. I know I didnt.
Sometimes all I see is another dish to do, or another piece of clothing to pick up, and its irritating. I have 5 children to pick up after, cant hubby do his share?? But wait. If I dig deeper I realize that the dish/mess/whatever isnt bothering me, its that I asked for recognition/respect/HELP and arent getting it. Dont I matter? Is my request unheard? If he loved me he would do this, this and this for me. Right?!
So lets put this in perspective: my hubby is military. My hubby is always working/gone/studying/sleeping or trying his hardest to relax (due to his line of work).
I am not the center of his world. Staying alive is.
My husband shows me his love differently than I expect it (I had to learn this the hard way in the midst of a fight…). I also learned about the Five Love Languages (totally encouraging everyone to read this because we all love differently!)
Once hubby and I got to talking, I got to digging into my heart while talking and realized that I felt unheard and unappreciated. Finally, I was able to voice this and the look on his face softened and he finally understood why it was upsetting me. (Now dont get me wrong, he didnt do an about-face and become the perfect husband, but we can work on this now.)
So just remember, we cant explain something to someone unless we understand it ourselves. And women dont always know WHY it upsets them.
And that is my $.02, you can keep the change.
(*I hope this helps a bit.*)
I kinda think the person who wrote this missed the point himself. You tried to make to make it something bigger than it was to begin with. you tried to make it, Oh I see now why she divorced me. Instead of saying, Oh my gosh if I leave the glass on the sink maybe perhaps I leave other things that just never quite get done cause I expect my wife to finish things I do since she is the “Wife.” It is not so hard to figure out that maybe she just got tired of picking up after you cause you are an adult and should do these things for yourself. and if you have kids then you are teaching them also, mom, is just suppose to take care of us. You are an adult pick up after yourself bud!!!
I literally never comment on these kinds of things but cannot help myself on this one — how is it that this many people have take the time to read your [very well written] post, but are unable to understand the emotional implications?! How do this many people think this post was actually about dishes, or any other physical actions being taken in a relationship — or gender roles in a relationship — etc. It’s pretty scary to see how many people do not understand what it is you are saying. Thank you for such a wonderful point of view and encouraging reminder that there is no “I” in “We”.
This is the first time something I’ve written has gotten this level of attention.
It’s strange and uncomfortable.
I already knew the “Manosphere” guys are going to lambast this, though 100-percent of them do it under a faulty premise.
I already knew a lot of regular married guys would hem and haw at it because I was one of them not too many years ago.
But I had NO EARTHY IDEA that thousands of people could read this (I suspect they only read a VERY small amount and jumped to off-base conclusions) and misinterpret it so horribly.
I know the headline, out of context, is misleading. But, still. One of those lose-a-little-faith-in-humanity moments.
At any rate, your comment is VERY appreciated under such conditions. Thank you for going out of your way to send this note.
You wouldn’t have gotten so much response, positive or otherwise, if you hadn’t hit a nerve. I thoroughly enjoyed your article and think you should be prepared for a following if you continue in this vein. I’m sorry that you find this attention uncomfortable but hopefully in the future, you will realize that many more that don’t comment, appreciate the point of view you have shared. Thank you for sharing!!
Thank you, Val. Kind words. I appreciate them.
Don’t forget the “Nerd Pride” people too.
Seems like there’s a whole generation of people who were taught “be yourself, don’t care what other people think!!!” by parents, teachers, authors of fiction for teens, etc. trying to protect them from getting in trouble following peer pressure.
Some of these people (both male *and* female!) are still taking that advice *literally*. >:(
http://captainawkward.com/2014/02/06/547-is-it-my-anxiety-or-is-my-relationship-dodgy-spoiler-holy-fuckshit-its-the-dodgiest/ has an example of a normal person being in a relationship with someone who proudly rejects people skills.
I’d also like to add that relational patterns and personality flaws that existed before the wedding tend to continue–and magnify in their aggravating qualities–when the honeymoon is over. The casually irresponsible spouse who leaves clothes on the floor, glasses on the countertop, shoes wherever they drop, the yard only half raked, a gas tank on E, the pots and pans unwashed after loading the dishwasher, etc., was always like that; it may just not have been obvious before tying the knot. The spouse who cutely suggested her capriciousness was just quirky enthusiasm might, in fact, have a mental health issue, like ADD or some other compromise of executive function. Someone with attachment issues prefers being “chased” but can’t stand the idea of “getting caught,” so remains tantalizingly out of reach, both emotionally and physically. Someone who needs to manage his anxiety by “controlling” what happens and when in a relationship will keep moving the goal posts, so that you never feel as though you’re meeting his expectations. It isn’t always about “respecting” your spouse’s dignity; it could be about being put in a position of perpetually re-enacting a deeply flawed courtship ritual or compensating for an unidentified and/or unmanaged mental/emotional health issue. But two relatively healthy partners should be able to communicate their needs–as well as they understand them–and have those needs recognized by their partner (and counseling can really help with this). That doesn’t mean that each person’s every preference deserves to be met (let’s face it, relationships are all about compromise and sacrifice), but it does allow for mutually respectful problem-solving. As a personal example: My wife used to leave half-drunk glasses of water EVERYWHERE (have you seen the movie “SIGNS”?), and when she got thirsty, she’d get another glass out of the cabinet, because she couldn’t be sure which glass was hers. Solution: Putting a color-coded rubber band around the glass. I’m responsible for my glass; she’s responsible for hers; and there are fewer glasses to wash and improved stewardship of our resources. Working together, many problems can be surmounted.
Yes, you should have been more aware of her feelings, how your ignoring her desires made her feel, but she allowed those things to make her feel that way too. It could have just been a cup. http://heavennotharvard.com/2016/01/24/divorce-him-for-the-dishes-by-the-sink/
Aren’t these just the lamentations of someone whose wife left him and he regrets it? It sounds to me like they were a mismatched couple and the wife was just looking to find a reason to leave him more than anything else.
There are literally thousands of other things going on in a relationship/marriage on a daily basis…hate to be the one to break it to you but the glass isn’t some symbolic metaphor of a bigger thing. Maybe your sex life was bad or she was no longer attracted to you or hit the wall with watching your insecurities or telling the same joke over and over throughout the years. And I’m using those as basic examples of why marriages end.
But honestly, you sound a bit like a cuckold…like your wife left you and now you’re prattling on and on about how it WAS your fault in hindsight and you WERE in the wrong.
I don’t think she’s coming back so it’s fair enough to say that sometimes marriages just end because the people are simply not suited for one another.
These comments are a perfect example of how crazy people can be. The chances of finding a sane one that you can trust who won’t get up and leave you for another person or just get sick of you are slim to none. And even if they stick around, it might make you a more miserable person.
Certainly a glass by the sink has never caused a woman to leave a man. And even your perceived notions of what that glass represents isn’t a real reason for someone to end a marriage. You sound like you’re tying yourself into knots in order to justify your wife’s leaving you whenever she (more than likely) just didn’t love you anymore.
If she did, she would’ve sat down with you and explained all the things you’re trying to rationalize here rather than just getting up and divorcing you. Does that not sound like a way more logic response than spend an entire day trying to justify why she left you?
No, Mark. It’s an educated, thoughtful look into super-common dysfunctional marriage dynamics and providing some thoughts on how they might be improved for those interested in staying married.
I’m not trying to insult you, but you just don’t understand what you’ve just (partially?) read.
This is for men who want to stay married and are frequently confused about why their wives are upset about things that don’t seem like a big deal.
THE GLASS IS A METAPHOR.
I understand you on this Matt. Marriage is a work in progress and takes lots of work. Yes, maybe she would have left you regardless…but your point is well taken that women do need their men or partners to meet them half way. So it goes vice versa. Maybe if you got to the point of discussing it, the conversation could have gone like this; “I know this glass doesn’t mean a whole lot to me and never will but if it means that much to you, I will try my best to remember to put it in the dishwasher.” No one is perfect man nor woman, but it’s the sense of committment to work at it and recognize that the couple is in it together for the long haul.
I am married almost 25 years and understand this very well.
I am constantly working on our marriage as I know my husband is and it’s not perfect and I’m sure we could have left each other long ago. The one thing that has kept us together is the willingness to compromise.
Lots of luck to you and thank you for your honest post.
Maryanne
Thank you. Finally someone that understands what this is about. It’s not about women being expected to do the house work and men being the bread winner in today’s society, or about men disrespecting woman, no she didn’t leave him because of the cup, it’s not about her being unreasonable…..hes making the point that to maintain a relationship u need to do
little things for your partner and understanding what’s important to them even if it does not make sense to you.
The glass is a bad metaphor. It makes it sound like marriages end–and should end–over petty differences.
By virtue of the glass being a metaphor, you’re supposed to conclude that the differences being discussed aren’t petty.
Once husbands and wives get on the same page because he “gets” why the glass thing upsets her, then there ISN’T ever going to be any stupid fights over petty things.
This really isn’t very complicated.
TL;DR It’s not about a dirty glass, it’s about lack of communication in a relationship. Like 80% of all bad relationships.
“This is for men who want to stay married and are frequently confused about why their wives are upset about things that don’t seem like a big deal.”
A lady here (about to get married). Let me put this straight: women CAN BE and ARE logical. Treating a lady like “I don’t understand you but I will do it, just so you stay with me” is about the most insulting thing a guy can do to a woman. I’m a woman, I’m logical, I’m an engineer, I’m a professional problem solver. I live and breathe logic. SO PLEASE, don’t just put all women (or all wives) into an “a dirty glass is a big deal for her” bag. Your wife most likely had her reasons as well. Maybe she simply felt she was doing far more than 50% of all housework and was growing resentment for you not pulling your weight in the team, and those dishes in the sink were just a manifestation of it? Have you even talked about it, instead of trivializing it to “I don’t know why it was such a big deal for her”.
When we (my partner and I) hit an obstacle in our relationship, we use logical arguments and communicate our points of view in a respectful and supportive manner. We accept each other’s points of views. Nothing we do is about just pleasing that crazy insane monster in the other person that can be triggered off by a trivial thing. Sure, each of us has moments of being grumpy (mostly me, when I’m hungry and tired), but we know how to apologize for that immature, illogical behavior & mostly try to control it (like if I know I’m getting moody, I’ll warn my partner, shut up and go get food). Arguments over trivial things are NOT acceptable in a relationship. If they happen, you dig into the root issue together and solve the underlying problem each time. If they happen a lot, it means your relationship lacks communication skills. Those can be relatively easily learned and everyone should take the time to learn communication skills BEFORE they enter a relationship. Would save people divorces and bad experiences.
Read it again, Mark. You missed the point entirely.
It’s never about the glass. It is about respect. The glass (or the toilet seat, or any other thing you think is inconsequential) is always about respect. Feeling respected, loved and safe will keep a quality woman at your side during the hard times.
That’s a two way street. Do I get to impose my trivial items on you on pain of divorce, too? If my glasses on the counter indicate a lack of respect that is divorce-worthy, surely the ice cube trays that you never, ever fill mean you don’t give a shit about me a a person either.
Honestly, do you even want to be that person?
you nailed it, scottidog! and i’ve also found that feeling respected, loved, safe, and needed will keep a quality man at your side during the hard times. hubby and i have been together for 23 years and have been through good, bad, and seriously ugly times, but we’ve come through all of it loving each other immensely. i can honestly say that i hope the same for every couple… it just takes work.
From my experience it’s about communication. And respect is shown via communication. Keeping respect for someone is hard work, because they sometimes may (and will) fail and disappoint us. And the child in us will want to be grumpy, mad about it and grow resentment (which will eventually lead to losing respect – just like 5-year-olds are not sure if they still love their parents after not getting what they want).
Mature people know how to forgive little things, and know how to be firm (but loving) about the big things, and can explain the big things clearly and in a logical manner, and can be supportive about it.
It’s death by a thousand cuts. It wasn’t just leaving dishes by the sink it was all the times he showed he didn’t care by ignoring the little things she wanted. Whether it be dishes by the sink or never being the one going shopping. It could be anything. We all have our own quirks. The question is do you care enough about her to accommodate hers? I can guarantee she’d rather let the kids eat in your new truck but knows how you feel about it so doesn’t.
Mark, your attitude may leave you divorced at some point. This man in hind sight has gained some insight. It will help him make his next relationship successful.
Mark is right by the way.
Guys like the author don’t understand women. Women respect, and are attracted to, strength. lf a woman left you it’s because she doesn’t respect you. A guy that women find “hot” is a guy that has a backbone and puts anyone, male or female, in their place when they step out of line. Instead of concerning yourself about how you could’ve served her better, understand that these b!tches ain’t sh!t, especially these fat entitled American ones. You should’ve known to walk away from her, but she got the drop on you. She gave you all kinds of sh!t tests and you failed them miserably, otherwise she would NOT have left you.
To keep a woman, you have to be willing to get rid of the woman. Women are here to serve men. They WANT to serve us. They won’t serve little boys, though, nor the weak or cowardly. Stop writing about this broad forever. The sooner you off that b!tch from your mind and focus 100% on you, the sooner that b!tch will regret leaving you. I don’t give sh!t about your situation, BUT, I was fortunate to be told some of these things by men that were more advanced than me and I believe in passing the good word along when I can see a man that is in need of some truth. Remember, these women don’t love you. Only you love you. When a woman knows you love yourself and don’t need her, she’ll see you as the prize that you actually turned into by living that mindset.
I’m gonna keep an eye on this portion of the thread, because I have a feeling shi’ts about to go down…
And your outlook on women in general sir, is sad to say, will most likely leave you with never having a deep and meaningful relationship with anyone. If you are with a woman the only reason she would happily “serve” ANY man is because of how he treats her. You treat her like crap then that’s what you’re gonna get. Try having an actual relationship with a woman that acts EXACTLY like the man does that you describe and you will be the one getting dumped all the time cuz she wont have time to put up with any of your games. it will be her way or the highway and she wont take it any other way. sorry, and good luck with that high school thought process of women and relationships.
Divorce is there for people like you, if you ever make it that far. Men and women in a marriage WANT to take care of each other. The author hit the nail right on the head and was spot on in regards to respect and appreciation. In the days before my time, when marriages were arranged, they respected one another, appreciated time and effort in caring for the farm and the family, and eventually learned how to love one another. They say you don’t “owe” your partner anything, but I have made the choice to owe my husband my honesty, respect, and appreciation for more reasons than I have room to note. However, he as earned/gained my love and admiration for how he treats me. Sure, he’s not as thoughtful as I would like him to be, or as spotlessly clean as I am, nor does he have the same views about how to do things. That’s what makes it interesting, and we learn how to be a good team because of it. I do little things for my husband all the time because I love him and want him to feel that I appreciate how hard he works- not for something in return. Wanting him to acknowledge that is to reaffirm his love for me. We are not perfect, but we are happily married. (NO WOMAN IS A SERVANT, AND THE QUICKER U REALIZE THAT AND START TREATING THE RIGHT ONE AS THE QUEEN THAT SHE IS (AFTER ALL, YOU ARE THE KING OF YOUR CASTLE, RIGHT?), THE BETTER YOUR LIFE WILL BE. NOBODY IN THIS WORLD OWES YOU A DAMN THING- ENTITLISTS MAKE ME SICK)
I believe sir you have issues. No woman was put on this earth to serve a man. Calling American women fat and entitled, you must have been dissed by one. My husband treats me with respect and live and I treat him the same way. I’d he felt that he could treat me like crap and I would stay, he knows where the door is. Women deserve respect and love . Women who are respected and loved will do more for their man.
I honestly think that ending a marriage over a empty cup in the sink is ridiculous at best. Even if there is a underlying meaning behind it. The problem is people don’t take their vows very serious and are ready to throw in the towel instead of rebuild. Her feelings were probably hurt that you couldn’t do that very trivial thing for her, but to me it sounds like stubbornness on both parts, your inability to sacrifice 4 seconds to make her happy, and her inability to sacrifice 4 seconds to just put a stupid glass in a dishwasher. How strong can a marriage be to end it over something so trivial let’s be honest.
Fact of the matter is most people go into a marriage now days with all these condition. I’ll love you as long as your doing what I want, I’ll love you as long as you don’t hurt my feelings, I’ll love you as long as your making me happy. It’s not about for better or worse, in sickness and in health, till death do us part. When you TRULY love someone it’s about doing whatever you can to make that person happy even if your exhausted or sick. If both partners are doing that than both are happy. To often one is sacrifice and the other is not. Love is selfless “not selfish”. Maybe he should of seen the significance in a empty glass, but maybe she should of articulated her feelings and then a senseless divorce could have been avoided. It would have been avoided for sure though if they both loved one another enough to put their own selfishness, stubbornness, and entitlement aside and work on the underlined problem. I for one do not believe the marriage ended over a “EMPTY GLASS” but because neither were selfless and committed enough to make it work.
Good article. Everybody has a love language. Read the book “The five love languages” by Gary Smalley. Not everybody cares about the glass by the sink but some do. To those who do, the glass is everything and is a symbol of disrespect. The respect of each other is the key.
Or maybe the wife should just grow up because it’s just a glass.
This article is nonsense; acting like it’s one person’s responsibility to bend over trivial things rather than the other way around.
This guy was better off without such an immature wife.
The point completely flew over your head
What is so hard about reading a single page simply and eloquently put article? I am losing hope for our education system.
Try this scenario, your significant other continuously leaves empty cans of soda/pop around the house, the you are continuously picking them up and throwing them away. You sit down and kindly asks your significant other to start throwing them away they says ok but the next day you still have to pick up those empty cans, you shrug it off because it’s only been one time after you brought it up. You bring it up again and again they say ok but nothing changes, everyday when you get home after a stressful day of work or a long day of cleaning the home you still have pick up their empty cans sitting on the table, the counter, a bookshelf. Put yourself in that scenario, you ask you partner multiple times to throw away the multiple cans of soda they drink on their day off or they get off of work only to have to do it yourself when you get home or on your day off.
Wow you sound so angry. What would I have done in that situation? Instead of giving an angry command to clean up after oneself, ask for a reason of such behavior. Then make a plan to change it – put a reminder in a calendar, send a friendly reminder text message – anything. Help that person change their habits (it’s not so trivial to break a bad habit, if it was, there would be no overweight people around!).
If they deliberately choose to not cooperate with you and ignore you out of disrespect (and you know it because they told you so, not because you assumed so), THEN it’s time to talk about love, respect and the future of the relationship, and time for ultimatums.
But I feel like a lot of people just take a shortcut and choose to be angry and assume the worst (that their partner disrespects them), throw an ultimatum and divorce, without really being patient and putting some effort into it.
And ultimately.. I’m personally all about living together before getting married. I can’t imagine getting married to someone I barely know, and then discovering AFTER THE FACT that they’re a super messy person and never clean up.
On the other hand, if you get married to someone messy and expect them to change after the marriage – you’re setting yourself up for failure with unrealistic expectations.
Thank you for validating the crazy feelings some women have. As i write, my husband is watching the game with his cereal bowl (with milk left) on the ground by his feet. My 3 year old has already almost spilled it twice. I could just grab it on my way to the kitchen, but it drives me crazy. Once or twice, no. Every single time? Yes. It makes me feel like our home not having rotten milk on the floor isn’t as important to him as it is to me, which therefore means he doesnt care about what’s important to me. Does he help around the house? Yes. Does he help with the kids? Yes. Does he help provide for our family? Yes. Will he clean up after himself? Rarely. Can i say anything? No. Because then i hear about ALL he DOES do, or he will angrily do the dishes or something else to be overly helpful, and then it makes me feel bad. It’s a no win situation. If only he understood.
It’s not the ceral bowl, and it’s not the glass or the dirty clothes in the middle of the floor or any other single little thing. It’s the apparent assumption on the part of the miscreant, male or female, that the other person will pick up after them and that is their duty in the partnership. That is “all” they are there for … at least that is the perceived message. And if a spouse says that out loud, splitting up would be an obvious solution. AND it doesn’t matter how often it’s explained, some people just don’t get it.
This article i highly one sided. I completey understand and agree that you should respect your partner but that goes both ways. Judging by your own words, your husband seems to do a lot for you and your family. I understand its painful for you to see that cereal bowl on the floor, but did you ever think that maybe its painful for him to put it away?
Its a two way street in any relationship. Quit trying to change people. Accept them and love them for who they are and grow with them.
Yes it is one-sided. I wrote it for husbands, and husbands, only.
Because when you worry about yourself and get 1% better every day, and not blame other people for your life problems, a bunch of kick-ass things can happen.
Good luck.
Your perspective may be what could come across as one sided, but any human in any relationship, friends, room-mates, wives, children, parents, neighbors, can take very valuable lessons from your story to improve theirs, if they are willing, ready and able to look in the mirror and take that step forward. You have done a great service to the readers and yourself and I know you will find success in your relations going forward. One of the things we say on the reservation at spiritual gatherings like the amen ( I agree) in Christianity is ” All my Relations”. Our relations to all things living or not is the basis of our life from birth. We are here to learn from each other and you have a gift that you shared that I am grateful for. You have taught those who chose to hear. Keep doing what you do. 😀
This was really nice. Thank you. I promise to keep trying.
Really? “Painful” for him to put the cereal bowl away? Is he a poor helpless baby? I’m guessing not, since he is so very capable in so many other ways. Just pick up after yourself whether you’re the husband or the wife. It’s really pretty simple.
I wish people would stop using the phrase a man “helping” with the house, or “helping” with the kids. It assumes it’s the wife’s job and the husband just “helps.” It’s his house and his kids too. I want to tell the man, quit “helping” already and be a grownup.
IT is her job when he’s off workign and bringing in the income.
It is her job. IF she’s not out there working and bringing the income it, then she needs to be taking care of the home while he’s out there working whatever hours are necessary to bring in the needed income.
I tried to explain this concept to my husband and he refused to understand it, now he’s someone else’s responsibility.
Bingo! You got it!
How about a compromise: Just ignore the stupid bowl. But make him wipe the floor if he (or your child) spills it. He’ll be more careful not to spill, and you won’t have to worry about rotten milk stains.
Honestly, you sound very demanding (and I’m a lady too, a soon to be wife). It may be that you two are simply incompatible. Have you lived together before getting married to see if you were compatible at all, or did you get married blindly believing everything would be just fine?
If that’s who he was when offering your vows, then please accept him the way he is, or at least do your part to reach a compromise.
I think this is spot-on. Just so you know.
In my situation, I, the wife, am the sole breadwinner in my home. My husband thinks he is unable to work and calls himself a stay at home dad. Our son is 11 and is quite self-sufficient and mature for his age. My husband is of the thought that since I am the woman, I am responsible for making dinner every night when I get home from work after I’ve been at work and on the road for 12 hours, kind of like leaving the dirty glass in the sink. I can’t even count how many times I’ve told him that he can make dinner once in awhile but to no avail. And it’s not even just about dinner. It’s many other “wife” things I do around the house as well as working at my paying job. I feel so very disrespected and am moving toward divorce because of it. It is a big deal…
This wouldn’t fly in my house either. Either you work a 9-5 job or you work around the house. In the event that we both work away from home, we both work around the house as well. Laziness will not be tolerated. I honestly can’t blame you for considering divorce in this case. I wouldn’t pull double duty for some man to lay around on his back all day. Sorry girl. 🙁
I’ve not been married, but Lynda, I’ve been in your shoes. Cleaned, cooked, drove him to and from work, found him work – and still paid all the bills and bought all the groceries. Every time he actually did any form of housework was a fight or near fight to get him there to do it. He was always “going to” do it – and I was a nag. Asking for rent monthly was nagging him. Asking him for any contribution to helping make the logistics of life together work was nagging him. In his last few days with me, he informed me that if I were a good girlfriend I’d just pay the rent and not say anything to him about any of it until a good gig came his way.
If that was the measure, then I am a bad choice for a girlfriend.
Yes, there has to be balance and respect goes both ways, but there comes a point where you realize that you’d rather just do your own thing than try to sacrifice that much for someone who you know would rather just drink himself into a stupor than lift a finger to make things work.
I have not felt as relieved in my life or content to just be by myself as I do now and this article has summed up what I didn’t know how to express to him.
Hire a housekeeper to do some chores for you once a week or biweekly (a good one is about $200/month). Cancel cable tv if you must, to pay the housekeeper. Your husband wants cable tv? Tell him to earn money to pay for it. OR to clean, to save on the housekeeper.
Bring takeout dinner home or eat frozen pizza on days you don’t feel like cooking (even if it’s every Mon-Fri). He’s not happy? Tell him to cook something better.
But most importantly, have a good, open conversation, heart to heart. He’s probably resenting you, cause he feels like a loser (job insecurity), and you’re resenting him for having to work (I know I would). Maybe together you can come up with a plan to get him employed? Part time job? Freelance from home? Start a business? Come on, there MUST be some way ha is able to work (unless he’s seriously disabled).
Maybe if she respected the environment as much as she wanted you to respect her, she wouldn’t have been so resistant to your reusing the glass.
My first audible laugh to a comment today. Thank you. (The glass thing was predominantly symbolic!)
As a woman who would definitely leave dishes by the sink without ever caring at all, I found this quite interesting. I haven’t been married to someone with quite different house/cleanliness expectations, but I have lived with some, and it was pretty stressful for both of us. She often felt that I was taking advantage of her by not always cleaning up immediately, and I felt like it wasn’t really a home to me. It seems like in a long term relationship it would require some level of understanding from BOTH parties about what was at issue (which you did a good job explaining here) to reach a stable solution. In a marriage it’s not like it’s just one person’s house that the other happens to be living in, but is home to both people, which calls for understanding and compromises on both sides, not just the side of the messier person. (Of course I’m assuming that the messier person does clean up, and doesn’t just leave messes for the other to clean perpetually)
I think you need to hear this . Stop being a spineless human being with no self worth and stand up for yourself. You’re a man that has been beaten up and abused . Mgtow.
You know, I legit agree with a percentage of things all you MGTOW and Manosphere guys believe.
But, holy shit guys, your reading comprehension skills are WRETCHED.
This is for men who are married and want to stay married. No one else.
If your contention is that married men should not sacrifice for their partners, then there’s nothing to discuss. It’s an insane position.
If your argument is men shouldn’t marry at all? I’m totally down. Stay single! I’m single. It’s completely fine.
If you want to educate me on what you think a marriage is supposed to be, I’ll listen. Because I can’t possibly figure out what everyone is trying to argue with.
Because, brazenly cocksure as this may sound? I’m absolutely right about this.
That so few are living this way is EXACTLY why more than half of marriages fail.
Wow. My wife posted this after a fight. I did not read it right away. Then I read it and thought it was dumb, but it bugged me and I thought about it all day. I just read it again and I totally get it. Thanks dude! I get the symbology of the glass and was able to apply it to my situation. I would rather put away the glass than be doing my own dishes! Those who don’t get this just did not read it when they needed it. I run a very successful business and can handle those issues no problem, but marriage sometimes takes a special roadmap.
Yes! You are right, Matt. Lack of open-minded communication and/or understanding or attempt at understanding of what fills each spouse’s love tank, if you will is a major cause of divorce. Just because I enjoy a kiss on the cheek, his hand in the small of my back when standing next to me, or him just doing the dishes without me asking (all of the above are rare lol), does not mean that is what he feels loved by. Women want to feel wanted and valued- plain and simple. We live in a time where people throw things away when they are broken instead of fixing them- including marriage unfortunately. Best wishes for new beginnings and lasting lessons learned!
I think you missed another point though. Leaving the glass by the sink or the laundry on the floor says, “It’s okay for you to clean up after me.” It smacks of selfishness and disrespect, not just because it makes her feel lonely. It makes her feel like a servant.
No. You’ve missed the point there. It’s not about cleaning up at all…..it could have been pulling back the curtains in a particular way or leaving the toilet seat down or anything…..This is absolutely not about woman and housework. I have particular hang up too….I like the kitchen bench clear and the hall table clear….but don’t care about clothes on the bedroom floor. My wife likes the bed made and very regular phone calls when we are not together…I don’t need these calls……its about understanding what your partner needs and then loving them enough to fulfill it.
Then how about she makes the beds (because she cares), you clean the benches (because you care) and she calls you (because she cares) and everyone’s happy and fulfilled, instead of demanding anything from the other person.
just sent this to my husband, maybe he’ll understand it and actually listen to it coming from another man.
Well I gave it to my husband yesterday and he read it twice then we had a massive argument. Good luck
mine hasn’t read it yet. I’m hoping it’ll make something click.
Totally brilliant article! Thank you! You wouldn’t believe how much these words are a fantastic find for me right now. This stupid ‘glass’ situation has become a major issue in my marriage of late. Actually been feeling so stupid that it’s making me so unhappy as of course on the surface sounds ridiculous. Your article was like reading my own mind (but simplified! – probably the male influence)!. Reading why men don’t get it has genuinely helped me see why my husband doesn’t get it. I’m surprised at some of the comments – what I see to be a clear, simple and honest take on what must be a common problem in homes everywhere (not the glass – just for the record). It’s simple – a wife will feel unappreciated, disrespected and hurt everytime that glass is left. After each request to put it away is ignored – a further blow, more hurt and building resentment. It happens multiple times. Every day, every week, every month those actions tell you that your spouse can’t be bothered to do something small that they know upsets you. It must be intentional? Otherwise why would they continue? A glass, dirty laundry …. These are just the messenger’s – it’s what’s being said.
Thanks!
This had me in tears, as this is my marriage. Spot on. Everytime I put the coffee away again, or move a bag that’s been dumped on the floor again, I feel like there has to be more than this and I step a little further away. I feel I am his mum not his wife/partner and no matter how I try to voice this, screaming and shouting, sobbing mess, a heart to heart, nothing seems to click. Nothing seems to change. I feel I am at a loss. So I’ve saved this page and when the time is right, I will show him this blog. Thank you cuz I know it’s not my crazy.
this is how I feel… mine has woken me out of a deep sleep to ask for a mug of tea or a glass of water or food, because he ‘doesn’t know where anything is in the kitchen’
same place its been for years. :/
The man is underestimating how grossly messy he IS! His wife is NOT his personal maid. Most younger wives pull there weight in a job and do double-duty at home. If he is like my partner, his messes are invisible to him. We are currently working on NOT dropping nasty snot filled tissue everywhere but in a trash can. I’m thinking about divorcing him over it. WHY? Our child and I have literally been sick repeatedly since November. Last year I was sick with flu 8 times because HE won’t hand sanitize after work or throw away his tissue. Divorce or Murder?
For my marriage, it was an alarm clock. One I’ve had since I was 10 years old and loved fondly. It still has red glittery hearts that I placed on it all those years ago.
This silly childhood object of mine ended up being a catalyst of marital strife, hurt feelings, shouting matches (one sided)…No, of course this object was not going to end my marriage. We had a baby and my husband whom once loved me dearly, became freaked out and simply put, checked out.
That alarm was set an hour before he had to get up so he knew he had an hour left to sleep. He had done that since childhood and refused to change that practice. It didn’t matter that I got up 4 times a night and needed to sleep…it didn’t matter that he wasn’t the one being woke up by it, I was…. To me, it was a slap in the face..a screw you I don’t care about you.
I gave ultimatums, screamed..cried….begged… he didn’t seem to care.
Then one day, after months of no sleep and fights, he got it. He stopped feeling like I was a lunatic and heard me. He began to help with the baby, to show me he was present. He started showing me he cared.
I even stopped acting like a lunatic… Six years and our 3rd child later, we both seem to be happy with eachother and in an awesome place. I guess the point of me airing my dirty laundry on the Internet is to show the author here appreciation for airing his.
Yes, it was just a cup..half full or half empty. A thing is never just a thing with women.
Hey.. when you don’t put the cup in the dishwasher… I have to. Is that fair? When you don’t clean up your mess… like the bathroom sink… I have to brush my teeth looking at your gross mess, or clean it up first. Is that fair? Kind? Thoughtful? Just remember, women… if you leave him for reasons like this????? don’t plan on getting re-married. You will only be “REPLACING”. Use common sense, people.
She didn’t leave him for this reason… read again. I may be summa cum laude but I am still not even close to the smartest person I know and I just do not understand all you people you have read this article as the woman actually leaving him over the cup, that that was just his title and metaphor as his former self victimizing, blame shift, excuse as to why he was left until he had this epiphany to share to help others and himself going forward. His aha moment in hindsight. I have special ed kids so I don’t like to call people dumb but why are so many not even able to have basic reading comprehension, that is the scarriest thing that came out of this article. The narcissism is bad enough but the illiteracy makes me feel a real sense of doom for our whole culture when the majority are reading it all wrong and totally out of context, like they read the title and responded and that’s it.
Great article! It is never about the glass, it is about respect, and if something is very important to your partnert, even if it doesn’t make much sense we must try to do it, specially if it only takes a few seconds. It is about letting your spouse know that you care about the things she/he cares. This is a way to show love. Also, we need to pick our battles. If you feel the other person loves you and appreciate you, and it is a partnership, we need to be more flexible because nobody is perfect. As long as we are trying our best, we can pass “the glass on the think” without feeling is an act of lack of respect.
You’re still letting her be your mother; you just have a better overall understanding of why she wants certain things. You also have to be able to please *yourself*. Being the good little boy and making her the emotional center is a trap that ends badly.
Oh Matt,
Yes. You hit the nail on the head. It’s not the glass….or in my case the laundry process. It’s everything you said. I bookmarked this and someone reposted it and brought it back on to my feed.
I have read this 100 times and wish I could explain this to my husband. We have kids and I don’t want a divorce but I do feel all the things you said. Mostly alone. Thank you for wring the article.
The cup thing by the sink is just an excuse. Women get bent out of shape over all sorts of things, especially things in the house which they view as their personal space, not just some or half of it, but ALL of it. Men are usually much more tolerant of what the woman does ‘wrong’ in a living situation than the woman is tolerant of the man. You blame yourself for acting like a child but not your ex-wife for acting like a child. That door swings both ways.
But let’s play the devil’s advocate and assume that your wife left you because of everything you said. Why are you whining about it now? What is your problem? Either she was a control freak or you are simply an unattractive man. Find yourself someone else and quit pining your life away about what happened in the past with a woman who left you. If you can’t find any other woman to want you, then that is on you. If she can’t find any other guy who wants to stay with her, or that she can tolerate being with for any length of time, then that is on her. But either way, she left you and so quit being a wimp. Put her in the rearview mirror, find someone else, and get on with your life.
Wow, what a rude response. He had something happen in his life that taught him a valuable lesson… One others may not have learned yet. Then he was brave enough to share it with others.
Matt, thank you for sharing this post! As a woman, it makes me look a little differently about some of the things that get under my skin, and possibly how to approach them differently. Peace and love!
Dude… it’s not about the cup. First paragraph. Also not boys vs. girls. Here is another that didn’t read, I think over half didn’t ( or couldn’t, male and female alike)
I tried for years & gave up. Not on the marriage but of him ever understanding how much hurt & disrespect I feel. Other people see it, friends, family, our grown children, but he doesn’t. At times I am the mother but mostly I do it myself without saying anything. Its my way of keeping the peace. We do have times of closeness & at those times I feel very loved. But then he turns back into the selfish, neglectful little boy who needs a mother.
This is completely accurate. If you don’t get it, you’re destined to be alone? It seems like a small thing, but it surely is not.
This is numbskullery.
This is spot on! It’s nice to see how the man feels about it, and it’s awesome to see that a man can articulate how a woman feels. (You did learn.) Well done! What’s funnier is that so many people in this thread would rather be right than happy. It’s actually more sad than funny… Again, great write!
People…the cup can be a metaphor.
“What’s funnier is that so many people in this thread would rather be right than happy. ”
The exact same thing could be said about his ex-wife.
I had that experience of some small things that annoyed me, but didn’t change because they were unthinking habits by the others. Example in my case: the toothpaste tube. Annoying as hell to have to constantly rearrange the toothpaste to the front of the tube before any would come out, because they all just grabbed and squeezed.
What I did NOT do was let this fester until I was ready for divorce. I chose to consciously view it as evidence that the woman I loved lives in the same house as I do, which is on balance a very good thing. And I also chose consciously to not interpret it as “they don’t respect me!” but simply that they were not thinking about me right that instant. There are a lot of things to be thinking of in this world, and I do not need to be front and center in my family’s consciousness every time they do something. I don’t want my family members to ever even consider the prospect of me being furious with them over a tube of toothpaste, or contemplating divorce because I’m the only one who changes the ice cube trays. I don’t want to be that person.
Apparently this guy’s ex-wife went there, though.
This. Marriage is about compromises, not always getting everything your way.
The important thing is letting go of the little things, and communicating effectively about the big things.
This reduces women to irrational beings incapable of being treated as equals.
Those things he doesn’t bring up DO matter. Every one of them. Just because he chooses marital peace doesn’t mean they don’t matter to him. She is allowed to ignore everything that is good to concentrate on what is bad. That is not fair to men, and different standards make it unfair to women.
You get it. Glad to know you figured it out. My ex did not. My current husband get it. The glass is in the dishwasher.
In my experience, people who fail to GROW with their marriages and figure these things out have increased chances of developing personality/emotional disorders (i.e. – narcissism, bipolar, paranoia, etc.)…..so the person who chooses to STAY with a spouse who refuses to acknowledge their feelings/heart/desires RISKS FUTURE TRAUMA if the relationship continues. If this article rings even a distant bell in your mind, PLEASE commit to honestly evaluating your marriage and developing a plan. The plan could include consistently engaging your spouse to see how things are between you two, setting up some counseling appointments with a therapist or pastor, inviting some trusted close friends to give feedback on what they observe in your relationship, etc. Once kids are a part of the picture, you have an increased responsibility to exemplify healthy relationship patterns, and your choices regarding your spouse become even MORE crucial.
The part he left out is that they may want you to manage things but they want you to manage the way they would do it. If they want you to take charge and then bitch about the way you handled then let them do it themselves.
Boo! You still don’t get it. Obviously you don’t cook either. When you leave that glass there it is in your wife’s way! She has to be in the kitchen to make the next meal or wash the next dish and you’re thoughtlessly causing more work! How is anyone supposed to navigate a kitchen of hot dishes with one more thing in the way? Obviously, she has to get it out of her way to make you dinner when it was your freaking responsibility! You are being lazy and expecting her to do chores for you. It you ever attempted to run a household you’d get it. A household is a job and you’re being a passive aggressive dick about things you ought to consider as important as your work.
Eva. I’ll have you know I’m an excellent cook. The glass by the sink is really just a metaphor for “little things” in marriages that cause conflict.
There’s more going on here. Including my excellently prepared food.
I’ve been giggling to myself about how many women here* would be interested in dating you… but now you’re talking about your cooking? This is just some serious trolling, dude.
* I exclude myself mostly because I am old, cranky and with an assortment of caution stickers.
I promise there are a million things I suck at that frustrate and annoy people.
All of my friends and family and women I meet aren’t heaping lavish praise on me.
I just happen to have learned something important about relationships and enjoy sharing things I think about… and prepare excellent meals. 🙂
I do hope it was clear that I was teasing you. Still, you seem to have touched a nerve, and after all the moderation, it would nice if there were some kind of upside for you as well.
If you want him to take charge then don’t bitch about the way he does it because then he will stop and let you do it.
His cup-by-the-sink theory is kind of insane. I get how it could be tied to disrespect and all that but at the end of the day it’s just a cup and honestly to me the reasons he left it there make perfect logical sense. If she were really interested in staying in the marriage and if the cup in that spot bothered her that much, they could have compromised and come to another solution but she decided to leave instead. I think yall are right about the whole mismatched couple thing and it sounds like she was looking for a way out. I feel bad that he’s blaming himself because it seems like there wasn’t much he could have done to change her mind. Sometimes things aren’t your fault. People and circumstances change and there’s nothing you can do about it except change with it.
His cup-by-the-sink theory is right on target. This man gets it. I’ve been listening to men say they just can’t figure women out for many years. He did. Why do I say this? Because this article could very well have been written by my own ex-husband.
It’s nice to see this addressed by a male and while I agree with much of what you’ve said here I disagree that this is just the way men are. I’m divorced after almost 30 years of marriage, pretty much due to the very things you discuss here and even after the divorce I don’t think my husband ever really got it. Now I live with a man who really is nothing like that and I think it stems from the fact that he has an enormous amount of compassion and respect for me and our relationship. So there are men or there who do get it. The fact that he treats me that way makes me want to do the same for him, therefore avoiding most of the little daily irritations that turn into big problems and eventual breakdown in the relationship.
Thank you for writing this though. If I thought it would make any difference I would send it on to my ex husband who had a second marriage go the same way as the first.
It’s very simple…communicate and truly take note of the details….It’s the small stuff that means the most…for both parties. Compromise….and do not sweat the small stuff.
I don’t want to have to tell you want I want you to do. I want you to just figure out the world on your own. And I want you to come to the exact same conclusions about the world that I did. Because if you come to different conclusions about the world, about what is important and what is not, that can only mean that I am not important to you either. Unless you see that glass as exactly as important as I do, that can only mean that I don’t matter to you either, and I will have no choice but to resent you and eventually divorce you. Unless you behave in the world exactly the way I would, without me having to explain it.
Your ex-wife is a narcissist.
Exactly right, and this blog post is a big old welcome mat for the next one to come along.
Yes. This article makes his ex-wife sound pretty bad, and it makes his marriage sound just INSUFFERABLE.
But then, even if he was essentially a clone of her & meet all her expectations & read her mind, she’d dump him out of boredom – “he was too predictable, I wanted someone romantic and spontaneus”, she said.. 🙂
So, I was married. I left. In the beginning there was us cooking meals TOGETHER, not me cooking and then him taking over, or me simply cooking by myself. There was compliments, and thank yous, and us going on dates, and flirting. Toward the end there was practically none of that left. There was lying, and not helping, and “you cant do this until this is done”.
Now I realize that my feelings of happiness, self-worth, respect, love, and any other emotion should have never been rooted in what HE did AT ALL. People will always let you down. As a christian I should have ALWAYS done things to please God, not my husband. When you do things out of LOVE, the kind of love that is described in the Bible, you do not need any kind of recognition from your spouse for anything. Regardless of what they are doing, saying, or NOT doing/saying, when you do things to please God, you will always feel good. You don’t feel negative. When you treat your spouse the way God wants you to, to please God, then you don’t have to worry about getting offended from anything they do. We get offended because of unfulfilled expectations. When you don’t expect things then you cant get hurt.
When you do things out of love for Jesus then you ultimately treat your spouse as they want to be treated. You recognize and do the small things that make them happy, because love is kind.
It is not our responsibility to fix each other. It is our responsibility to love them as Jesus does. When we do that then we don’t need confirmation or recognition from our spouse because we get it from a close relationship with God, the one that loves us more than our parents.
The book, The Love Dare, states ” Kindness is love in in action. If patience is how love REACTS in order to minimize a negative circumstance, kindness is how love ACTS to maximize a positive circumstance. Patience avoids a problem; kindness creates a blessing.”
Kindness has 4 basic parts: Gentleness, Helpfulness, Willingness, and Initiative.
I am beautifully made and loved by God enough to continuously be shaped and molded into the woman of noble character, as described in Proverbs 31.
Hope this helps someone. God Bless
YOU get it.
I have been married almost 20 years and each person brings their own baggage into the marriage. As a husband, I get it, my wife needs to know that she is loved, cherished, and taken care of. I also know that she needs me to show her that I love her in everything that I do. That means putting God first in our marriage. It means that when it comes to CERT or other activities, she comes before that. In other words, my priority is my wife, before other commitments. As a husband, I am solely responsible for my actions of not only myself, but my family as well. I am responsible and will answer to God for everything. I love my wife and I want to treat her the way she treats me.
God is the leader of my life and my wife’s life, and I am the spiritual leader of my house. Every decision that I make, I must make sure that it is for the right reasons and that it is something that God would have me to do. Everything that we have belongs to God. My finances, my house, it all belongs to God. Husbands, love your wives as they are meant to be loved. Treasure them, honor them, respect them. Marriage is a two way street. You are either for your marriage or you are not. The vowels you took on your wedding day are not just between you and your wife, but they are between God also.
Imagine how anti-feminist this article would sound if you switched the genders.
I asked my husband to read this. Not because I’m considering leaving him or anything as drastic, but because you have singlehandedly hit the nail on the head. This is just the most brilliant thing I have read in a long time. Kudos to you … And I’m sorry that the realization came after the divorce (or in the process) but I hope your words help other men understand why those things are so important to us. Thank you!!!
Aww. Great article! You are young and full of a lot of understanding many men or women can’t really verbalize, good for you. Though the higher percentage of readers are women, I feel men won’t read this and some women will use this to vent.
You keep writing! This old 50-something divorced woman appreciated what you wrote.
As a married woman of 24 years, and as someone who has survived many “glass” issues, I might also add that much of what we bring into a marriage is how we are brought up. My family was rather poor, laid back, and “unmannerly.” My husband came from upper middle class. For him, doors were shut, dishes were put away, walls and windows were not to be touched, magazines were stored away, not left on the coffee table, shoes were removed at the door, food was to be eaten at meals only, no grazing….the list seemed endless and nonsensical to me. Who cares? Chill out? (It’s only a glass—I’ll move it when I want to wash it.) These were all foreign concepts to me. It wasn’t that I didn’t agree that his way was often better, I just had no idea. For the most part, I was the one who “caved,” but I still don’t think his way was/is always better…I simply wanted a marriage without constant conflict. There are still things with which I struggle, but our four kids take their shoes off at the door:)
Maybe you sucked all around as a husband and this is the theory you have come up with.
Just because you leave a cup out doesn’t mean you’re discounting your spouses feelings and you don’t respect her. It means you didn’t put the cup in the dishwasher. No more, no less. I’m tired of this new aged B/S about everything and it’s implied meaning and this horrible PC culture that shit people have cultivated to justify their cottled upbringing.
If my wife wants to leave me over leaving a cup out or leaving a cabinet open, I say good riddance. If “for worse” is a dirty cup on a counter, your doing pretty fuckin good in my book.
I am getting divorced after 30 years, because I felt discounted our whole marriage. He would say “What’s the big deal?” all the time.
When my 2 adult sons turned to me one day and in unison said to me, “What’s the big deal”
That was the day I quit. Threw in the towel and left.
send this to your sons.
But seriously, what was the big deal? Maybe not everything in life has to be so serious or always done to the standard you have set in your mind?
What a relief to hear a man who finally “gets it”.
Thank you.
Amazing read. He’s learned alot for his next relationship . I can relate 10000 percent to this & her side of the spectrum – and ITS MUCH MORE THAN THE GLASS.
Maybe you don’t care about the cup by the sink because a woman has always taken care of it for you in the past. Grow up, men. Women are not your slaves even though you’ve treated us like that for eons. (P.S. It’s not the cup, it’s everything.)
I had a professor who told a story about how he walked into his house one day to find his wife on the floor. She had passed away unexpectedly. He was married a long time… I can’t remember exactly how long. When people asked him how he stayed married for so many years, his response was, “you have to overlook a lot of your spouse’s shortcomings”. BTW, I’m the one who leaves the dishes by the sink.
Coming into this conversation as a 63 year old female who was married for 30 years, then widowed at 55 and remarried at 57, I wish to say that at my age all of this becomes a moot point. No one is perfect and no marriage is easy. Marriage needs daily attentiveness and care or it will die. After my husband died I would have put up with all of his faults, if I could have had him back! The “small stuff” is just that in a mature marriage relationship. That said;not everyone is compatible; if that is the case, then getting married was the mistake and no one can blame the other as the cause of the break-up.
Marriage is hard work but has tremendous rewards and is the best partnership in the world!
This.
Good advice, but in some cases the wife really is just being unreasonable, just finding every reason she can to be mad about something. In that case, it may just be better to dump her and move on.
My ex wife hated everything about me it seemed. She expected me to make lots of money, but hated that I worked all the time. I’d work 60 to 80 hours a week and she worked 20 to 30 earning a tiny fraction of what I earned, but she was mad that I wasn’t doing half the housework. When I would do work around the house she never noticed and if I me toned about it she would jump all over me and go on and on about all the work she does.
I should have dumped her early on in the marriage. I was always in trouble. We barely had sex and that would happen only after many rejections. Everything I said or did got under her skin. She hated the way I crunched chips, not because I was any louder than anyone else doing that, but because she just couldn’t stand me I guess and when you can’t stand somebody everything they do gets under your skin.
In the end after near 19 years together she told me she wanted a divorce. I begged her to give us another chance. We started marriage counselling, but it was too late. I found out there was another man and had been for a year and I wasn’t about to be a contestant on the Bachelorette with this smooth talking loser.
Life was incredibly hard for a while. I loved that woman, probably always will to some extent. We spent neay two decades together, had children. It wasn’t all bad. We both put a lot of effort into that relationship but it just wasn’t meant to be. Things just got worse and worse. We were probably both jerk to some extent too. It happens. Jerkiness begets jerkiness. The symptoms of sick relationships manifest in bad bahaviors. I don’t hate her. I wish her the best. I like to think we’re two good people who weren’t good together.
That’s key though, being with someone who is a good fit for you. Divorce wasn’t even an option for me before. I made excuses for the way I was treated. I put up with so much. I’m sure she felt she did some of the same. I kept telling myself, “this is just marriage.” I kept telling myself it would get better, that she loved me with all her heart like I loved her and someday we would be a cute little old couple that held hands and we’re so glad they’d found each other and stuck with it all those decades. I was delusional.
Years later I’m married to another woman. We’ve been Iiving together over five years and everything is just so easy. We don’t fight. We have truly not had a fight in over five years. We have no tension building either, no resentment. We have a phenomenal love life and just really enjoy each other’s company. She is always saying something about all that I do for her, all I do around the house and so on. She’s never been with a man that does so much. I really don’t do any more than I did with my ex wife. This one is much prettier than the ex wife. She makes two and a half times as money but hates spending money. We aren’t constantly buried under credit card debt like in my previous marriage. Everything about our relationship is just so much better than in my first marriage. It is so easy. Our relationship makes both of our lives better, easier. That’s the way it should work.
Is she just complaining about the gas on the sink or is it everything? Does she want you to change so much about yourself? Does it seem like it’s just never enough, she keeps moving that carrot out farther? Does she seem perpetually offended and impossible to please? If so, go get help fast, get marriage counselling. If that doesn’t help, call it quits, get out. Life is too short to waste it on someone who does not appreciate you. There are lots of women out there who would love to have a good loyal man who will stick with them and be good to them, women who will be grateful to have you even if you don’t bend over backwards all the time sucking up to them and kissing their rear ends. I will never live that way again. I’m loving my life now. This is how it should be.
I hear a lot of misandry in this article and especially in the posts below it. Some of you women need to learn some tenacity and realize how many things YOU do that irritate him. For all the women who say “men don’t get it”, you’re just as oblivious (and selfish I might add).
Grow up snowflake.
In many ways you are right… But actually your points work both ways. Like, wouldn’t it have also been an expression of love for your ex to realize you didn’t want to put your glass in the dishwasher? Wouldn’t it have been loving had she put it in for you or left it there and never nagged you again?
These days things are skewed too much sometimes in favor of wives, because earlier it was too far in favor of husbands. We need to balance and each partner has to be in the marriage the way you described. As a wife myself, I suspect your ex may not have gotten upset over the glass thing if she didn’t have deeper issues. I think when we really want our artiste to work, we both make sacrifices to keep it healthy. Anyway. Thanks for sharing and I wish you the best moving forward. -peace
Not artiste * marriage 😉
I think a core part of the ‘thesis’ of this article is * “But even if I had, I fear I wouldn’t have worked as hard to change my behavior as I would have stubbornly tried to get her to see things my way.” * That is, it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong, because each person will stay stuck on their side and fight for it anyway, even when fighting for it doesn’t make sense. The rest of the article talks about the glass situation, explaining what the significance to her was. Her side, or his trying to explain himself are useless. what the conversation should be about is compromise: Can I have a specific drinking cup to keep by the sink and say drop it in to wash it every couple of dish loads right? but like he says, it’s about respect and small things to do that shows you love and respect each other. If everything else in the marriage had been dandy and mutual love and respect were understood, it probably would be easier to address little annoyances. Like you said, but it’s not about “if she didn’t have deeper issues” it’s not her, Or him; it’s the /marriage/. Their relationship and how they respond to each other.
I find your comment about things being skewed in favour of wives a bit sinister. This isn’t 1950. Marriages come in all shapes, genders and dynamics. I am the breadwinner in our marriage, by that token my husband helps a lot domestically but in no way do I expect him to do it all. We both cook, clean, tend to children etc. my feeling is when I’m at home I take care of it, when I’m working, he does. My point being you cannot generalise about ‘wives’ & ‘husbands’ . It’s just loving parents working out the best way to raise kids & love & respect each other as they are. Loving humans not rigid roles.
Sinister? Wow! I think that’s a harsh and unfounded characterization… I really do think that these days (of course not 100% of the time, but enough that it’s noticeable) men are blamed in some instances while women are not, even though both may have been at fault. I think this is the result of an over-reaction to the way things were skewed in the past towards favoring men when women were instead often blamed disproportionately, leading to the feminist movement which, in my view made some over-corrections. I said this because the author seems to be blaming himself, while I see that a wife could have written essentially the same article entitled: “my husband divorced me because I nagged him about leaving his glass near the sink.” realizing that if she had recognized that he wanted her to respect his ways and show love by allowing him to leave his glass out.
I think marriage works both ways and according to the article, I feel the author has put undue blame on himself.
I agree that marriages come in all shapes sizes and roles are fluid and flexible. I don’t know how you arrived at the idea that I see it otherwise. What I meant was simply that the wife could have also chosen to overlook her husband’s “negligence” as she saw it, just as he could have chosen to acquiesce and put the darn glass in the washer.
I don’t think things are necessarily skewed towards women. I see quite a few female friends who are in the role of main breadwinner as well as lead parent at home. Their husbands don’t get it – that the wives really don’t want to have to tell them every little thing that needs done.
One of my friends said that if she didn’t remind her husband to feed their child, she’d come home and the little girl wouldn’t have had a meal. Her husband has verbally expressed that he embraces his laziness. He’s a stay-at-home dad, but somehow he doesn’t seem to do any of the tasks that a woman in a stay-at-home role might be expected to do.
I don’t know how she does it and I think this has really been harmful to their marriage. You could say “she’s micromanaging and not giving him space,” but that argument doesn’t hold water to me. A kid needs to eat, bills need to be paid on time and household chores are just a part of life.
—
The man I was with for the better part of last year relied on me to work, pay the bills, take him to work, (often find him work), go get groceries, clean the apartment and cook a majority of the time. (He did occasionally cook and that was nice when it happened.)
I am now single and glad for it.
There is no way I would find myself married to a man who doesn’t take pride in being able to contribute as a partner toward having a solid, stable household. I couldn’t imagine having children with such a person. I would become an angry, miserable, overweight and overworked woman.
Danielle has expressed well what I was thinking. While I was reading your article I could feel myself standing in your wife’s shoes but I agree that it is as much about me sacrificing my ego and needs too to keep our marriage healthy. In fact we have been married for 21 years and it’s been stronger now that it’s ever been but I’m still learning that the servant heart is the hardest to adopt for both genders. I wish you well in your future and healing too.
Well, I’ve never been divorced, but my wife of twenty years and I both agree that this article includes some dangerous and basically awful advice. You, sir, need a partner who can see past the little things and understand that your every action is not a reflection of your respect, or lack thereof, of your partner. A marriage means accepting a person for who they are and understanding that you will not always find the same things important. The little things like your metaphorical glass won’t add up like that unless there is something more fundamentally wrong, like a true lack of love, trust and respect. Maybe you should have respected her concern regarding the glass, but your lack of concern is equally valid. As long as you load, and run, and empty the dishwasher once in a while, the glass should just be a glass.
Sincerely,
A Successfully Married Man
I think if you had the context of hundreds of other posts on this blog, you’d have come away with a different conclusion.
This is just one silly little post. Written off the cuff during my lunch break eight days ago. Just like a bunch of other posts just like it. And all together, they mean something other than your conclusion here.
I’m still flattered both you and your wife read it and discussed it. Thank you.
Thanks for writing this, but I don’t think this blog post conveyed your message as effectively as you think it did, based on the comments. Just an honest critique.
It is opening a lot of discussion and I think it will help a lot of married people out there, though!
You’re right in a lot of ways. Truthfully, I think she married you for wrong reasons, and no matter what it is, dishes, clothes on floor, whatever, she wanted out of the marriage, and you did your best. If you really did avoid the dishes just to spite her, then well, that’s a different story.
Either way, you’ll come on top if she really did screw you over. Cause in the end, it ain’t about the dishes, it’s about whether you want to give and take together.
tnfarrar, yes. Well put.
As a wife of 21years, I feel this article said a lot of how I have felt over the years. It’s more than just a glass. Maybe he didn’t mention the other things that were important to her but not him. Such as a busted kitchen window in my case, that stayed broken for 3 years. He was fine with card board on the window and would get to it eventually. No matter how many times I brought up the window, the subject was dismissed as insignificant. I have a list of things that were treated this way and now we are in counseling. If it is important to her, it needs to be important to you.
And in 3 years you couldn’t fix a window either… So must not have been that important…. I’m sure you have many examples, but c’mon.. If it’s YOUR problem, why do you necessarily have to make him do it? Take matters into your own hands.
Oh my god, exactly. My ex was a carpenter by day, and couldn’t find the time to fix my dressing table mirror… even though I could find time to cook him dinner, take him on lovely dates, and do the majority of the cleaning. I gave up and now have an awesome relationship with someone who understands my values enough to compromise 50/50 with me!
Ditto. This article, and the dishes by the dishwasher, specifically, hit the nail on the head for me. We’re all trying our best to be understanding and see past things, but I have felt every feeling mentioned here.
Lol at all the women agreeing and men disagreeing. And the people who didn’t finish reading, and the people who missed the point completely. Perfect real life examples of what the article is trying to highlight.
Wow. I cannot believe so many people are reacting to this article with disdain and judgment. It’s a metaphor, people! Bottom line: Treat each other with respect, talking into consideration the other person’s triggers and fears and preferences, without having to be “right” all the time and avoid forcing your own way. Some of these comments made me laugh out loud in utter non-belief. I can hardly fathom that some men truly believe that treating a woman “as though you don’t need her” translates into being considered “hot”. Please. Matt, you are a rare breed who sees the issue, is trying to change for the better, and is brave enough to share your journey with others. You are HOT to me! Thank you for the great writing and the insight.
Thank you Mark. I am involved in this situation now. For my husband it is the same argument over that one pesky cup. For me it is the same argument over the sinkful of dishes. That metaphor of the singular cup means, if the man cannot see the logics of how to meet his wife on that one small thing that bothers her so. He is not seeing the logic behind a 1000 other small things that bother her as well. My husband interprets it as I love to make his life difficult by concentrating on all the little things he does not do. I interpret it as, you show me you do not love me by forcing me to do all the little things you chose not to do, and exemplify those things to our children. So now I am also doing all their little things they chose not to do as well, along with my little things. By the end of the day I am exhausted behind all those little things and have yet to still take on tasks for the big things.
Good lord, this is my marriage in a nutshell. But guess what, I have they balls to tell her she’s acting like an ocd head case just as she’ll tell me I get too wired over politics. It’s called balance. Do we argue? Hell yeah. Do we love each other? Hell yeah. At the end of the day we both help each other and take different responsibilities with the kids and it works. To suggest that husbands become eunichs to ease tensions caused by somewhat silly expectations is a small example of much of what’s wrong in this country. But you probably don’t like dodgeball either. Sorry to vent on you. But, I’m awfully tired of the “woe is me” attitude often times displayed by the modern woman. My mother is 82 and still does laundry and cooks for three, drives, bakes, does dishes and wields a mean weed whacker. And ya know, I don’t ever hear her complain. It’s time both genders grow up mentally, emotionally and physically and learn to deal with it.
Your reply remind me what I did not like being married…. LOL 😉
This is satire, right?!
I truly hope so, beacause if this man thinks that all these thoughts and actions are what led to his divorce he is actually delusional. He was doomed from the start with logic like this, and if by (VERY) small chance his wife legitimately divorced him because of these reasons – well then he’s better off because she never loved him anyways. There was something FAR more flawed in their marriage that led to this divorce. If you love somebody, no amount of these minor issues will ever change your mind, nor will it make you feel as if the love is not reciprocated.
This article is completely unfounded, and outright dangerous (as another poster mentioned) for someone to read without putting some intelligent thought into.
Perhaps to your view with your life experiences. But you cannot know anyone’s relationship outside your own. This article rings true to me in EVERY way.
The glass next to the sink is not the problem. There are, for lack of words to accurately define them, “not tests”. A test can either be passed or failed. A “not test” can be failed or you can”fail to fail”. When presented with the opportunity to fail a “not test” it is unfathomable important to properly fail in such a way to meet the required expectations of said “not test”. Failure to properly fail will result in a failure to fail situation which is far worse than the repercussions of simply failing.
The basic Pavlovian response to any “not test” previously and quite probably repeatedly used to initiate a simple failure situation would be leaving the glass by the sink. A failure to fail situation old arise if some hapless idiot actually washed and put away said glass or placed it in the dishwasher.
Experience has proven that these actions will result in more intense immediate negative response from the person employing the “not test”.
I whole heartedly agree with the deluded premise of the article in that there should be some way the failure could in any way succeed in achieving some degree of positive feedback as a result of behaving contrary to his pattern. But this is not the case. It is clear that the disappointed partner whose tender heart was repeatedly trod upon by the dastardly and indifferent counterpart had no desire or interest in showing him the same level of respect she expected.
Made for a fun evening of “not testing” at my house though.
Thank you for that.
Wow…..reading this reminded me of my marriage of many moons ago. LOL…..My ex-husband would put dirty clothes in the floor beside the clothes hamper….sometimes even touching it….I have heard of other guys doing the same and figured there must have been a course given to all men before they married encouraging them to do these things….LOL… I laugh now, but at the time I really did begin to feel like his mother….and that changes the dynamics of a relationship…or it did for me anyway.
I enjoyed reading you post very much. 🙂
I don’t know — I mean, we’ve been married 23 years and neither of us is perfect. He doesn’t trash me for my failings and I don’t trash him for his. Then again, I can’t imagine feeling disrespected because he left a glass by the sink — mostly because we don’t have a dishwasher. Where else is he supposed to put it?
I think there are bigger than surface issues going on when someone gets all “me, me, me” in a relationship. “He doesn’t respect ME because he puts his glass by the sink.” Maybe it’s not about YOU.
Janet if he leaves a glass beside the sink who eventually washes it?
Hubby and I have been married 43 years… It is something far deeper than glasses by the sink..did she try to tell you? Did you ask? Did you communicate? Did you you listen ?
I see the point you are trying to make, but I genuinely believe if your wife was stewing over repeated cup infringements, she is displaying OCD traits that are difficult for anyone to live with, or as tnfarrar notes above, there are deeper issues at hand.
In my days as a DV worker I saw lots of women who lived in fear of leaving a cup out of place or any myriad of ridiculous ‘infringements’. What lay behind them were men who had control issues, that masked an inner life where they didn’t know how to articulate their deeper fears and anxieties and compensated that by maintaining order above all costs.
Respect works both ways. It’s a mark of your self reflection to theorise that behind your inability to put the cup in the dishwasher was a complacency and lack of respect for her values, but don’t self flagellate over what is a very difficult personality trait to live with, especially as a creative person.
This is really great. I think it does go beyond hurting the wife, it for sure can go both ways. I think we all have a ‘glass by the sink’. There are things that I’ve caught myself doing that I know really mean far more to my spouse than to me. And I know there are things he does everyday to make mine easier that don’t matter a bit to him. But sometimes it’s hard to bring into words how much these little things mean to Us, you did that well. Thanks!
Wow amazing!! ??
My husband and I intentionally work on our marriage and two great books that go deeper into helping people understand each other in marriage are the 5 Love Languages and Love and Respect. Personality Plus is another great book to help people understand connect with people that think and act differently than us. It has helped us understand and communicate within our marriage and to others so that we can be stronger and more productive. Great article, thank you for sharing.
or how about not being lazy and clean after yourself, do the dishes, housework etc. sorry but it sounds stupid to have to defend your own laziness. what about a roommate situation where your roommates leave dirty dishes and glasses everywhere? whats the reasoning there? if both partners are messy and dirty, good for them have a messy household, I prefer a partner that is an adult and not lazy even with small things
I dunno, I read it. I don’t know if I agree. I mean clearly its not about the dishes. Its about the inability to grow up and stop letting someone else clean up after you. But the thing is, in the end metaphorically or not, its just a damn cup and sometimes people leave cups out. You put them away sometimes, other people put them away sometimes. If this dude can’t figure out that there is a give and take in every single part of binding your life together with someone else’s then he has other problems. Now, I don’t know if he and his wife ever spoke about the cup, and what it may or may not represent to her, BUT SHE needed to bring it up in a way that doesn’t make her sound illogical to him. Women are capable of logic. Talk it out. Tell her why you believe the cup should stay in the sink and she will tell you ALL the reasons it should not.
In the end though I mean he should clean up after himself and she should get over it. Its a cup.
OMG finally! Someone fucking gets it! Someone finally broke the code. Matt this is just wonderful. Thank you so much for outting words into my feelings. Marriage is just hard work and its so hard making it work when your partner doesn’t out in the required effort to make it work. Now am gonna get the husband to read this and discuss. Much love and more power to yourbblog. Keep writing mate!
So what I gleaned from this article is that we (men) should try harder to understand our women, and maybe that’s true. We should. So what about women trying harder to understand their men? Like when my wife goes shopping and blows $1,000 or when she maxes out all of her credit cards, which I (the husband) have to pay for because she’s doesn’t work. She thinks her husband is being unreasonable when he gets upset, because hey, she married a guy who has a good job and makes good money, so she earned this by marrying him. The husband gets upset because it’s not about the money, it’s about the fact that they don’t have anything in savings because all of their income goes toward bills, mortgage, car payment and whatever’s left over goes to pay off the credit card bills. She feels entitled, but he feels like “hey, you don’t respect my wishes by cutting back on the spending. You don’t care about our safety and security during our golden years, or that the economy could crash at any moment and I could be out of a job, yet we’re living paycheck to paycheck because you just had to have a Gucci handbag. Yeah, it works both ways….
What your wife is doing is wrong. My husband did it to me all the time in addition to those dishes that he didn’t even bother to take to the kitchen, let alone the sink… He is no longer my husband. It doesn’t matter whether it’s the man or the woman who’s doing it, whatever it may be, but it’s about not listening. About not even trying to understand why the other is hurting. One would think it’s obvious that spending like crazy and leaving the other to do all the work is wrong, even without anyone having to explain it. But nope.
Ironically, I could care less if my husband “leaves a glass by the sink”. I’d like it if he would romance me every once in a while. We lack intimacy. Also, it would be nice if he would view my writings/ art / photography and say something more than just “Kool”. We are still married, but I’ve given up hope of being anything more than just a “cordial living companion”. When I ask him why he doesn’t read my blog, he replies: “I already know you”… Clearly, he doesn’t… and we’ve been married 24 plus years… I guess it all depends on the individual, as to what makes them happy or not. There is more to life and love than “dishes” and “responsibilities”. But hey – that’s just my humble opinion. I’m just as clueless as anyone else. Peace. ✌️?
Hey Jane, your reply makes me sad for your sake as well as your marriage. Do you see the irony in the name you’ve chosen for yourself? I hope things change from average to wonderful for the both of you.
You are very insightful man. I have read this over and over again, and I love it more every time. I am 100% sure that this is my marriage and many others I know. I am grateful that you wrote this and have shared it with everyone I know. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this, it is helpful to understand a man’s perspective on this. I have one question; you mention that no matter how many times a woman explains it, if it doesn’t make sense to the man, he’s never going to get it. You obviously got it…..after a divorce. How does one help a man see it, without having to divorce the guy?
Thank you for your insights,
Karen
You know what I do… I see my future wife as an equal. Everything she does, is like an extension of me and vise versa. She is the messy one and I am the clean one. This isn’t something to be emotional about. Communication is kind of key to a successful marriage. She leaves dishes out, clothes on the floot, random things everywhere really. There are reasons behind thus and instead of putting blame somewhere we talk about the root of the problems and we talk about the pros and cons of the situation. For the most part being messy is a negative thing and we talked about why… then we talked about her past and why these things still happen as an adult. There are some really cool things to explore about a person. We discovered something really useful about her past that really helped us plan out some strategies to keep a (somewhat) clean house. As we grow older an now in our 4th year together I feel like we have things pretty mastered. We still talk about what struggles we might face and the common things parents go through when having children. You prepare. When you make a mistake you can’t just leave yourself behind… you are stuck with you. So what do you do? You grow and you try to be a better you. The same thing applies to a marriage. You have to be willing to let the whole blaming thing go. You’ll never end up findin solutions when your too busy trying to find a place where to place blame.
I liked it! No, I loved it! But my husband is not the one leaving the glasses by the sink. I am! This has opened up my eyes to something I had never thought of before. Thanks so much for spending your lunch hour writing this up. 🙂
and now, we have to make the effort of clearing that one glass…. XD
This is profound for a fairly average bloke. You’re obviously not speaking from the point of view of a shrink but as one man to another. It’s well put and doesn’t miss the point.
Those who think that a wife shouldn’t feel hurt about the small things are obviously not working their absolute ass off to be everything their husband and kids need while also holding down a job.
I sacrificed my time, my health and my body for years raising kids. Getting up, cooking healthy breakfasts for him. Reminding him of everything. Keeping his clothes clean and ready. Massaged his aches away while my hands ached. Tended him when he was ill. Stayed up for him when he went out so we could go to bed together and worked my ass off to prove my love and respect for him. He can sacrifice 4 seconds of his day to put his glass in the dishwasher. If he wants to use it again. Get it back out. Rinse it and use it. Simple.
My husband and I have been married for almost 35 years (35!) and this is one of the most perceptive things I have every read on the internet. It was kind of a revelation for me to understand that he sees the glass on the counter as an offhand item and I see it as a gesture of disrespect. (Maybe a good analogy would be leaving a half-empty coffee mug in the husband’s truck….) There is almost always some division of labor and turf in any marriage, by manner of necessity, and each of us would hope that the other respects that turf and the work we channel into it for the good of the family. But, even in good marriages that last for more than three decades, this running confrontation can create ill will. We’re still trying to navigate around it – circumstances change as spouses lose, gain and retire from jobs, or have, raise and launch children. We told each other years ago that divorce would never be an option for us, and there are days when that promise alone is what keeps us together. But it has always, always been worth it. Someone said it well earlier: it’s not 50-50, it’s 100-100. Thanks for the insight… now to find a way to articulate this understanding in my own relationship.
That promise is something we make alone with our spouse, after the wedding ceremony is well and truly done. Maybe weeks after or maybe years. Maybe after our first big fight, but it is the biggest, truest commitment we can make. At times, when everything is crazy, we look back and know that we were completely sane and certain when we made that promise.
I agree with you. Sometimes it is the only thing that keeps you holding on.
Thank you..I read the whole article, I read the comments. This article is exactly what I needed right now. I’m a full time working mom, I have one day off a week. that one day is spent doing the dishes and washing the floors while taking care of my daughter. Every night I come home exhausted and every morning I wake up just as tired as the night before. I’m at that point where I feel like the world’s on my shoulders, and no matter how hard I try, it will never be enough in my partners eyes. I know everyone will have there own take on this article, the empty glass can have so many different meanings in each individual’s relationship, but for me this article really brought me some peace of mind. Actions will always speak louder then words. So I can not thank you enough for talk ng the time to put these thoughts to paper.
I understand this is a metaphor, but I see a deeper issue here – it’s mainly that keeping a clean and tidy home is somehow under the purview of the woman, and that when men participate in this they’re doing it for their wives. Let’s face it – when someone sees a messy home they immediately associate it with the woman and her ability to negotiate with her husband and children. Like it’s somehow her domain.
Why not take it a step further? Instead of humoring her and putting it away because it’s important to her, why don’t you take an active role and actually help establish the rules of the household along with her? You’re not a helper – you’re a partner.
And that means taking care of the home and your kids. This part: “Caring about her = taking care of kid-related things so she can just chill out for a little bit and not worry about anything.”
Really? Because I think when you decided to have kids they actually became your responsibility. Taking care of your kids isn’t helping your wife. Taking care of your kids is fulfilling your OWN responsibilities. You made the decision to do child care and child care related work when you had kids, just like she did.
To be honest, sounds like you still don’t get it. You still need your basic responsibilities assigned to you and you’re still expecting your wife to be the manager of the household.
You’re right on, but what if he did all these things and she still didn’t like him? haha
there are far more worthwhile things to leave your spouse over than a glass left by the sink. if your wife really left you over a f**king glass by the sink, then perhaps you should have questioned the integrity of the marriage from the start. odds are that amidst this conjured up elaborate interpretation of why she left you over this glass.. you are actually hinting at things you should have been better at in the entirety of your marriage. any ‘thing’ can be the breaking point of a relationship… but its usually damaged to begin with for it to crumble over something so petty.
If you are the woman who always cleans and your man doesn’t seem to think it important to put away things, take something that means something to him and leave it on the floor. If he picks it up put it back on the floor. I guarantee he will be like, wtf why are you putting my shit on the floor. Then say, whats the big deal?
If anyone thinks I’m being a bitch for doing this. Why?
I think this is an interesting insight into how sometimes one thing can lend itself to the manifestation of a bigger issue. I know a fair number of people who get tired of feeling like a parent to their significant other and I think this does a good job of voicing why that’s annoying. Thanks for the read!
Based on your wall-of-text expose of leaving a glass by the sink as cause for a failed marriage you are clearly a gamma type male. Do some research about human sociology and maybe check out some videos, I recommend Tom Terero. Check out his lover vs provider video. Trust me, it’s legit.
I am not surprised by the range of replies to this blog. I mean you definitely were poking the “bear.” But, it takes a lot to get the bear’s attention sometimes. Now, not all relationships are like this, “bears” may be more likely to be male, but sometimes they are female, and not every marriage has a “bear” in it. But you were trying to address those “bears” who are stubbornly clinging to their childish right to do what they want in most situations as long as it seems “right” to them and fits within their idea “reasonable” behavior. Even more, you addressed this idea some have that their spouse’s feelings only need to be taken into account when they seem “reasonable.” Now some people are upset because they know people (often women) who take advantage of their spouses when it comes to their “feelings” and use tears and emotional manipulation to get their way, and the new feminism seems to be saying that the woman should always be given the upper hand and always get her way. Truly, everyone has a slightly different set of expectations about what their marriage should look like. When reality deviates from their rose colored expectations, it can be very stressful. And if a person, male or female, is trapped in a relationship with a stubborn “bear” who won’t really hear emotional explanations or look deeper because it doesn’t “make sense” then that stress quickly turns to pain and eventually to a deep abiding anger. How can you work something out with a person who won’t take you seriously? Who “pooh-pooh’s” your concerns and feelings? Good for you for poking the bear. Do not be surprised when some of them poke back, but perhaps some will hear you and make a change, and I for one think you did a great job of laying the case before them “reasonably.” 🙂
Reblogged this on Pink Fuzzy Slippers Authors.
I read this article and felt my heart break just a bit. This explains my divorce exactly, almost as if you lived at my house. I read the posts of people that don’t get it and I think that they don’t get it because they have partnerships that empower and nourish both sides. In an equal partnership a glass is just a glass, it is not a sign of disrespect and it doesn’t make you feel unloved. However, in a marriage in which you feel that your feelings are being discounted consistently, the glass beside the sink represents so much more.
I am married again, and I have an amazing husband. He can leave a glass next to the sink any time and I don’t give it a second thought because we have a partnership that works. I do 95% of the daily cooking and house cleaning, but he does the trash, the litter box, the yard, the garage, handles the car repairs, the banking, the insurance, feeds and walks the pets, etc. etc. Most importantly I can always count on him to say “I got this.” In my previous marriage I did 95% of everything. When I separated from my ex, and moved out of our home I realized that I didn’t miss him or need him, since I was used to handling everything on my own. Now that I’m as happy as I am, I’m afraid sometimes that I will be the short-sighted one. Thanks for sharing! As painful as it can be to look at one’s past, it is a gift to have insight. God bless your journey.
I think what’s missing from this discussion is the fact that a glass left on the counter, or socks on the floor, often contain an assumption that she will clean up after him later. He may not see it that way, but the wife knows that if anyone stops by when the house is a mess, she’s the one who will be judged, not him. Not that we should care what visitors think, but that’s a reflection of the weight of a lifetime of societal expectations. If he leaves things out, she’s supposed to clean them up.
If that’s really NOT the case in a particular marriage — if the husband always cleans up the kitchen, for instance, and the wife never does — then I agree that it’s the wife who would need to rearrange her priorities in this situation.
I REALLY like this post. It doesn’t have to be in marriage though. In relationships in general. You have found such a clever way of describing the way in which us as women can really feel about such things, I tried to explain something very similar to this to my boyfriend last night ~ I don’t really think he understood as much as I had hoped him too. Maybe I should show him this. But I do hope that you find happiness.
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To all of the people who responded to this as your wife is OCD and has something else going on, you have missed the point. It’s not the glass by the sink. It’s the repeated action of asking someone you love to try to fix a behavior that bothers you. I am a woman, I am very happily married and I have dealt with this problem. While I love my husband dearly, he is messy so I end up doing the majority of the cleaning in our house. It’s supposed to be a trade-off because my husband does most of the cooking and, for the most part, it is. The problem is that when my husband cooks he has a tendency to use every dish in the kitchen so the amount of clean-up is exceptional because he can’t clean as he goes (I have accepted this and I haven’t tried to change it because I know I won’t win this battle.) It is exceptionally frustrating to clean your house and then find that your spouse has managed to destroy everything you’ve just spent hours cleaning in a single day. It makes you feel as though that person doesn’t appreciate the fact that you are trying to keep a tidy home because you love them and want them to live in a nice environment. The intellectual part of me knows that my husband is not leaving his dirty dishes in the sink or his clothes on the floor in any particular effort to hurt me. He does it because it just doesn’t occur to him to be any other way. He does a million small things that are fabulous and that I appreciate to no end. But the point is that I don’t want to feel like your mother. I don’t want to feel as though I have to nag you to fix something that really bothers me. If my spouse told me I did something that bothered him I would try to figure out a way to fix it.
You may look at leaving a glass by the sink as a silly, petty thing to care about (and, for the most part, it is). However, the silly, petty thing is not what your partner is reacting to. They are reacting to the fact that they asked you to do a small action and you couldn’t be bothered to at least attempt to fix a behavior that really bothers them. A good faith effort to to try to fix a behavior goes a long way with a lot of people because even if you can’t change, at least the other person knows you were listening to them. Now I am not suggesting that if your spouse is being passive-aggressive and hasn’t communicated to you that it really bothers them (silently stewing helps nobody), that you don’t have a right to be mystified by their seemingly irrational response. However, if your partner has asked you to do something repeatedly and has explained why not doing that action really bothers them, by ignoring their feelings or dismissing them as “crazy” or “OCD” or whatever derogatory term you’d like to use, you have put your need to be right or to feel superior over what that other person needs. This is not to suggest that you change every small thing about your spouse (male or female) that bugs you. It’s simply to say if there are a few small things you do that your partner has really expressed displeasure with, then maybe you should try to figure out a way to show that person that their concerns are being heard.
Wow, this is spot on, Matt. Thank you for having the courage and insight to realize all this and write about it. It is amazing how many commenters don’t get it though. I am a retired psychotherapist. I’m going to write a follow-up post to this with a few other insights and will ping back to your article.
The next gal who wins your heart will be very lucky indeed. She will benefit from these hard-learned lessons.
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Just had this same conversation, not about a glass but similar situation. And it is about so much more than the glass. When he knows that it’s something that we’ve fought about before, that I’ve taken the time to explain why it bothers me, & yet he continues to do it, to me that says I don’t care about you. Because if he did care, then he’d listen, he’d remember how this didn’t go over well – more than once – in the past & he’d not do it again. Being listened to, really listened to, that you remember the heart of the conversation (doesn’t have to be word for word), is what most women want. What’s the point in talking if what I say doesn’t matter to you & if what I say doesn’t matter to you, then how can we have any kind of decent relationship.
Just…thank you. Thank you for saying all the things in my head that I either cant put into words or cant make the words make sense to him. Thank you for this tiny bit of validation for my feelings, even if youre not MY husband.
As a woman in a lesbian relationship, I am completely ignoring the genders of said husband/wife and acknowledging the truth in this article. I am in a wonderful, mostly-healthy relationship with my best friend and partner, but we both have our relationship flaws that come from being two very different people.
For me, the metaphorical glass is a laundry basket that I am constantly forgetting to bring downstairs after its emptied in our bedroom. I often walk past it on my way out the door with my A.D.D. brain involved with twelve shiny squirrels and it’s just not a big enough deal to me to even notice that it’s there. Then she comes down with it and some pissed-off remark and I either respond with, “why didn’t you just tell me to bring it down” or “I just didn’t see it.” Then your aforementioned argument ensues about how she doesn’t want to be my mom and all I want to do is prove my point about how it isn’t such a big effing deal.
My point here is that I never really thought about it the way that you described. I never thought about how this one little trivial thing makes my partner feel unloved and disrespected, even if just for a moment in an incredibly wonderful, loving relationship. I’m sure that I won’t be perfect, but from this point forward I will make every effort to notice that stupid laundry basket. It still won’t make sense to me and I will still not think it’s a big deal, but if it’s that important to her, then I should respect that fact just like I would hope for the same if there was something that she did that annoyed me all the time after many requests.
So in conclusion, thank you for writing this. I’m sure that every person in every relationship has a “glass,” whether they are a husband, a wife, or some other non-labeled role and if everyone would stop trying to make or prove their (our) points, there would probably be a lot more happy spouses.
I never knew any woman who equates leaving the cup-by-the-sink with a lack of respect. If it does, maybe the man is better off without the woman. I have a major headache after finish reading it.
Here is clear. She needs to go to a doctor, and he has to divorce asap with her. Nothing to discuss here. Doesn’t make sense to have a wife who ready to divorce because of a cup. It sounds that it is a story of a family in one of those developed countries where people lost the real life.
Sounds great unless your relationship, like mine, depends 100% on me working outside the home and every dime to pay the bills comes from me. It is her choise not to have an outside job. I deny her nothing if we can afford it. She controls the money. Why should I work basicly two jobs, home and my workplace? No one does my job for me where i work. If you tell me it takes an 8 hour day, everyday, to keep up the housework (no school age children at home,) then I think there is a problem. A partnership means each carry their own weight. If both work outside then both should work inside. If it’s like me, then if I have to do both jobs, what do I need her for? Been together 25 years and on her end, the romance is basicly dead, so it won’t be that.
Sounds great unless your relationship, like mine, depends 100% on me working outside the home and every dime to pay the bills comes from me. It is her choise not to have an outside job. I deny her nothing if we can afford it. She controls the money. Why should I work basicly two jobs, home and my workplace? No one does my job for me where i work. If you tell me it takes an 8 hour day, everyday, to keep up the housework (no school age children at home,) then I think there is a problem. A partnership means each carry their own weight. If both work outside then both should work inside. If it’s like me, then if I have to do both jobs, what do I need her for? Been together 25 years and on her end, the romance is basicly dead, so it won’t be that. Any who, each person should do the little things, that take no real effort, like dirty dishes in the sink and dirty cloths in the hamper. Its just the civil thing to do. As for Fixing things around the house, more guys don’t know how then do. Then there’s guys like me who do it all day as their regular job. The last thing we want to do when we come home is more of the same. We also rent so I’m paying to fix someone else’s house. It is not always cut and dry.
If it were just the dishes, then divorcing someone for that reason would be, dare I say it, stupid, overreacting, petty, and immature. But it wasn’t just because of the dishes. The overreacting to the dish disagreement is just the manifestation of a bigger problem. This article just shows how little men understand women. Yes, helping around the house, at the very least picking up after yourself, would be great, but what most women want, I believe, is respect and love. If a woman doesn’t feel that respect and acceptance than the little things that she would probably overlook become a big deal because it’s just another way of showing that lack of respect. In the grand scheme of things the dish debate is not a big deal. It would fall into the category of “picking your battles”. If you truly think that is the only reason why she divorced you then it’s best that she did.
The only bad thing about this blog post is the lack of a ‘like’ button 😀 But you knew that already. Keep writing!
Yes you are Right
This is awesome and remarkably, though I knew part of why I was leaving was because I had not signed on to be his mother (among other things), I could not have put it into words like you have. Thank you.
This article/post is not about the physical glass itself. It is about the symbolism of the glass. What the “little things” mean to someone else. It doesn’t matter if anyone else can see past the physical glass. It only matters that you, now understand, how symbolic it is. Thank you.
Point : some will never understand because they can’t see past themselves. It’s kind of refreshing to see a understand, acknowledgement, and verbal attention to share the wealth of knowledge. ? Bravo sir. You are light years ahead of most men.
Control
Out of…
Control Control control.
Man.
Woman.
Husband,
Wife.
My-
My?
Life, way. me me me,
Society
Straight gay;
Black white.
Dirty glass ceiling
Just sitting,
almost touching,
Solution.
Redundant.
Break the fucking glass,
Relax.
Control yourself,
Not others.
Blah blah blah
Drama.
Fake.
Antagonize, manipulate.
Trigger reaction,
Play victim.
Certify the other.
Assign blame,
No accountability.
Clear conscience.
Glass breaks.
Slivers of blood.
Clean counter.
Messy low,
Stained- Floor.
Out. Of. Control.
Control. Control. Control.
Insincere recognition,
Public admittance.
Half-ass.
Pure BS.
Keep playing
Mindless games.
Pseudo victory and
Selfish failure.
Out of
LACK
of
Control. Control, control.
Void.
Ugh… Get over yourself.
Sylvia Plath just giggled in hell.
I completely understand your rant. Unfortunately it was my husband who expected this of me, but I was from a different thought process than him will all the household chores. He left me because of all these petty things he fought with me about everyday.Even when I changed and did those things there was always another thing I would forget, another shortcoming, another thing I did that was not done the way he wanted. He did want a mother-like wife, I could not live up to that no matter how hard I tried and maybe tried too late to be all those things to him. So sad. I never put any expectations on him, total opposite of him. Accept me as I am was not his philosophy. Sad, sad day when I finally had to leave after the ranting and raving. Life should be simpler, unconditional love, overlooking flaws…I guess after 30 years, love just isn’t enough anymore. I get it now but still wonder if I can live up to the expectations, even when I love so much
My husband is the one with all these expectations as well. He hasn’t left me yet though, and I don’t want to leave. I love him so much. The house is never clean enough. He enjoys working out of town, so he can have a clean place to stay. I’m hoping once the kids are in school and I can work, I will pay someone to help me clean our house. He is so offended if I leave dishes in the sink or leave the mail on the kitchen island or something like that…. Like I’m doing it just to spite him. To me, there are other things in life I would rather being doing… Coloring with our toddler or snuggling our 4 month old baby. I’m just praying he doesn’t get fed up and leave. I get around to it when I can. I run the dishwasher every night. It’s not like our house is unsafe/unhealthy. I also do online classes, before people jump on me about being so lazy. Lol
I understand your plight as well, Laurie. The difference is that some people are broken in ways that make them demanding in the ways that you describe. I was married to someone like that and as you describe, I tried to do things his way for many years. And there was no gratitude or acknowledgement. Just further criticism for other things that never met his expectations. But I can not disagree with this article because in a healthy relationship where both parts are in it with the right mindset it does work like that.
seems like the 4 of us are married to the same man. heh.
I wish more people created poems as comments. The internet would be a cooler, less discouraging place.
Probably already posted but: What # (overall, per day/m/y etc) = sufficient show of respect? Let’s agree you do 100% of any activity cited (or close); but at what point is reasonable satisfaction achieved? Because I have been, and now am with, the partner of 1,000 cuts on this issue. If you NEVER get even a moment’s sense of satisfaction from your partner despite continuous stress from an endless supply of diligences and dissatisfactions, then maybe you are caught in an impossible, and therefore unloving situation yourself.
Doing for your partner out of total care for their happiness is wonderful – many relationships aren’t lucky enough to have that philosophy built in. But a chance at experiencing that partner’s happiness and sense of respect fulfilled (if you are investing/invested in effort to do so) is essential to all parties’ well being – and if too limited or impossible to attain, things will still falter. Having mutual expectations that work well together, and finding out about, defining and being satisfied with them, by communicating on the matter, has got to be the foundation.
There is no such thing as “Reasonable Satisfaction Achieved”
This could have been wrtten by a woman just as easily. …
He left me because, I was late… for everything!
It’s a two way street. I don’t expect my wife to pick up after me but if we both got pissy over every little thing that botherd eachother there’s no way we would still be together.
My thoughts exactly.
I completely agree. Where is the respect toward HIM if he just wanted to use the glass again? I understand if there were a pile of dishes or glasses sitting there for hours, but ONE glass? She’s a control freak.
If she had THAT much of a problem, then she should sit him down and work out some sort of compromise with him as to what bothers the BOTH of them and how they could come to an agreement on the functions of a house hold. Obviously, when two people get married or live together, they most likely take care of their households different ways. Of COURSE there’s got to be some sort of compromise as to how to LIVE together, ie, who does what chores, where stuff belongs, etc. That’s a given! I think people who have a roommate do better than a lot of married people! Most women tend to hold it inside and then talk to their girlfriends about how their husbands “disrespect” them and “want them to be like their mothers.” All it takes is a simple conversation, and maybe even a chart. Geez! Divorce over a glass. UGH.
Now, I could see if the clothes are on the floor and the hamper is right there…LOL!
My glasses get dumped while there is still active liquid in it I am drinking but I’m sure it gets added to the list of “Things I don’t do”
He can’t speak for her, he can only speak for himself. If he attempted to cover every situation he’d be writing forever. He made some valid points, accept the points.
The point is more she didn’t get pissy the first 1000 times. No one divorces someone over the first time, the first 100 times. But at some point something has got to give – if you ask someone repeatedly to make a small sacrifice because it is important to you and they refuse over and over and over and over again it hurts. It is disrespectful. And it wasn’t just the glass. It was thousands of times he walked around with his shoes on, left his clothes on the floor, leaving beard hairs in the sink etc. Most people don’t divorce someone for just one of these things. But thousands of times for each of them says “They is just doing what they want. What they think is important is more important than my feelings. They don’t think my feelings are real – let alone that they matter.” That hurts. A lot.
You probably leave your shit all over the place with the “I don’t expect you to pick up after me attitude” I’m sure it wouldn’t surprise her that you have completely missed the point. How’s that working for you?
Your site is consummately unfullfilling as I cannot simply “thumb up” ( or down )your various commenters.Therefore, I suspect your still having a hard time ” sweatting the small stuff.”
I agree that your metaphorical glass goes both ways and I suspect there must have been some other major disconnect for her to make such a big deal of something so incredibly trivial.
I think you’re spot on. Make or female, husband or wife…it goes BOTH ways. (As well as with same sex relationships, respect is respect! I think the folks commenting are totally missing the point. It’s not about the glass!!!! It’s about mutual respect.
well put!
The people here who are saying that leaving one’s husband over a glass is trivial seem like they’re slightly lacking in imagination. They’re fixating on the symbol instead of what it symbolizes. The point of this article is that it’s not just ‘one glass here, one stain there, one piece of clothing left on one piece of furniture’… it’s all of those things put together. Put them together and it adds up to a second job for the wife, constantly picking up stuff in another person’s wake instead of doing things she wants, for herself.
It’s frankly embarrassing to me how many men there still are out there who expect that all their little messes to be magically ‘disappeared’ by some sort of ‘cleaning fairy’. It’s childish and yes, entitled, too.
Most women work to pay their share of the bills nowadays, so men need to learn how to do their fair share of the housework. It’s as simple as that. Otherwise, the woman gets a disproportionately higher work load, and that’s as swift a route to resentment and loss of love as any.
Like the author says, putting dishes in the washer is ‘sucky’ but it’s important to his wife that he do those things (probably because she thinks they’re ‘sucky’ too).
Underlying all these arguments is an outdated assumption that women enjoy doing housework or will do it unthinkingly, like a robot, without complaint. I’m sure most guys would claim that they don’t consciously think stuff like that, but they need to prove it with their actions. And that means putting a glass in the dishwasher from time to time.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus.nr0.htm
Not doing something (like putting a glass in the dishwasher) is not the same thing as expecting someone else to do it. If women didn’t feel obligated and it just didn’t get done, what would happen?
Dear sir, you are spot on. I would summarize it as “love is not a feeling, is an attitude”. I am the wife who divorced over house chores. Firstly, it is not only about “telling you what to do”. My ex-husband usually answered to my complains over dirty laundry / whatever “but you did not tell me to do it!!” This puts IMMENSE mental pressure over the wife. You need to take care of your work, your children /studies, and all house-keeping, because if you do not think about it, command it -and fight for getting it done, most of the times – nobody will. There is simply not time to rest. You are sick and feeling shitty in the bed and still thinking about everything that needs to be done, because nobody has it covered.
When I came home, and saw the laundry still in the washing machine, the dirty dishes in the sink and my husband already sleeping in the bed… I just feel unloved and uncared for. Like if I had no right to come to a clean home, to rest, to relax. Like if all was my responsibility and all the weight was over my shoulders. I felt I had a son, not a husband.
I fought about this countless times, but my husband never realized the importance of it. He was -and still is- a good man, and I do not doubt he loved me. He was just not… Well, maybe not mature enough.
Yep. Exactly where I am. And it sucks. But, with no real way to support myself and 3 actual children…..youngest is 3….I am stuck with a 46 year old that is more like having another 12 y.o in the house! Right dow to the fighting.
The Bible tells us to do everything we do as if doing it for God, and not for man. There is a choice you can make to be happy and this can turn your world around. You chose to love and marry that man. You made a commitment. You have children together that depend on the security a happy marriage will give them. Choose to be grateful for every opportunity you have to serve God by serving your husband and children with gladness. Don’t take a selfish approach to your chores by allowing feelings of being “put upon” to steal your joy. Do your very best, don’t complain, only say words that build your family up. When you feel overwhelmed or grouchy, pray. Put your trust in Jesus and He will help you.
Grace, there is no joy in being married to a man-child who won’t even pick up his own socks. I feel people who ‘find joy’ in such things are delusional, and bullcrapping themselves.
Should the husband not also ‘serve God’ by helping his wife care for house and home?
So true. I often felt like everyone in my house – the kids, my husband, even the dog – would literally die if I wasn’t there to take care of them. There were times when I got home from a late day and cried because the place was such a mess. It was too much.
Accept the mess and enjoy your life more.
Yes….everyday.
Right Colleen. I have three, too, and my youngest is close to your youngest’s age, and my husband is 46. Very similar situation. I also cannot support three children right now. I will be able to in about a year, but not yet, due to circumstances.
I have all the responsibilities of a double-shift married mother with none of the rewards, in terms of workload and relationship.
We’re past the fighting stage, for the most part. But for him, things are fine, everything’s working exactly as it should. He goes to work and goes out whenever he wants to, and I hold down the fort with no backup. It’s, yeah, it’s awesome.
This is the thing: My husband is a hard worker, smart, compassionate, a good person overall. But he does not care about me as a person. I’m just a cog in the machine that keeps *his* life humming smoothly. I could literally be any woman, and as long as she holds the fort, he’d be happy.
It’s sad.
It’s NOT about the glass people! (or chores, etc.)
It’s about something being important to one person, and the other person thinking it’s NOT important AT ALL. Sometimes the person who doesn’t think it’s important will ridicule and dismiss the other person’s request as being stupid or insignificant AND then that escalates to belittling the person themselves. (as some of you did in calling her OCD or thinking she had silly expectations, etc.)
If it’s important to your spouse, that’s enough reason for it to be important to YOU. Does that mean you have to agree? NO. It means that you “get” how important it is to them, and therefore you work WITH them to find a solution. The person then feels heard, respected, and like they are in a partnership.
It might be dishes, or understanding that you want to unwind after work, or that it’s too hot/cold in the house, or that they don’t like it when you call them by a particular nickname. It’s not WHAT it is, it’s HOW you respond.
Spot on! It’s not really about the glass.
Exactly, it is about caring what is important to your partner and how each of you respond to the other. As DH said: “Having mutual expectations that work well together, and finding out about, defining, and being satisfied with them by communicating on the matter.” is very important. And it does go both ways. If one partner dismisses the other’s thoughts, feelings, requests, etc., or, if one partner works hard to understand what is important to the other and that effort is not reciprocated or appreciated, it becomes extremely difficult for the other partner to respond in a caring, respectful manner.
La
I can always see both sides of an argumentargument, which is curse and benefit. You see for the wife the shit with the shot glass actually equates to an act of love and care. But I guess if she’d told you earlier things might have been remedied. My take on this is somewhat different. I have very low self-esteem, have had for years so I NEED people to say they love me if indeed they do. But of course they don’t. So here’s a hint if you love someone tell them today and your relationship will have a much better chance of having a tomorrow.
The local morning radio show had a conversation that almost made me think that they had read this post! The 40 something female of the trio said that she honestly believes that men and women are wired differently. That the things that “bother” her are just not even on her husbands radar. And vice versa. They just accept that and move on. It was an interesting thought
Mark
http://minimalistlifestyle.wordpress.com
https://minimalistlifestyle.wordpress.com/2016/01/24/a-pretty-cool-earthbag-tiny-house/
I am a wife and although minor things like leaving the glass by the sink may be annoying, I wouldn’t file a divorce over it. Then again, my primary love languages are Physical Touch and Quality Time. Acts of Service are at the bottom of my love languages, whereas it is the primary language for your wife, hence why for me, leaving the glass by the sink would be at most annoying. But for her, leaving the glass by the sink makes her feel like you don’t love or appreciate her. Soooo.. men, feel free to continue leaving the glass by the sink if your wife’s primary love language is NOT Acts of Service!
It’s not about the glass… the glass is a metaphor for other issues that come up when a wife’s or husband’s needs are not being fullfilled.
Dessy covered that if you read her whole comment.
The writer of this article was just to blinded and naive by his own morals that she would never leave him because it was just something as simple as leaving a glass beside the sink, and he ‘had her’ because they tied the knot.
A perfect way to describe a divorce or a breakup is summed up like this. People only recognize and focus on the year, month, or week leading up to that breakup, yet they completely ignore(d) the myriad of situations that lead to that year, month, day etc.
The marriage was doomed from the beginning, from the first time he left a dish in the sink, yet she didn’t speak up, or come to a simple compromise and solution. She has the right to leave him, but she doesn’t have the right to force him to do something that to him he’s probably done his entire life since a kid, and she needed to work with him rather than against him.
Marriage is a two way street, that’s all the writer is saying, and in his article he is simply writing about his epiphany on exactly what that saying means. But, look at it this way, she made up her choice to divorce him long ago, and didn’t want to keep the two way street going. Perhaps his ex-wife should read this article as well, or, hell just talk to anyone who has been married for more than 20 years and ask them about the word communication.
The dirty glass is not more important than marital peace.
Yup.
And neither are the four seconds it takes to put it away.
I’m more of a leave the glass person myself, and I ended up leaving a guy in part (lots of other reasons, actually) because he wanted me to nag him so he’d do things (this was a thing he told me he wished I would do, nag more to give him the motivation to get things done). Dude, not your momma. Not into requests that actually change my personality for the worse (becoming a nagger).
Lots of well spoken thoughts in here, interesting post. From the reversal point, sometimes I just get so tired of the housework piling up and taking care of it every day. This reminded me that the dishes only take 15 minutes each night (don’t actually have a dishwasher) and it helps my husband relax after work. 15 minutes a day of a chore I hate is actually worth that. Just as spending four seconds to buy that little bit of peace over the glass is worth it. ALSO, being the one who does the housework, I can say all those little things left out can easily build (especially if I get sick), and quickly overwhelm me. Taking a day off when you’re the one who cleans it just means double the work tomorrow.
This opened my eyes a bit more. I’m actually siding with you because I am like you. My husband’s the one to nag about the drinking cup (I have one sitting by the water dispenser). He constantly puts it in the sink. He nags that I don’t “look for things to clean and organize”. I did do that, before I had our baby. I was honestly spoiled while pregnant and now my cleaning habits are regressing. Though, they are getting better, my husband has grown a habit to nag. I’m getting better and working on it everyday. I do realize it is for the respect for my husband.
One word – contempt!
WOW! I have to say that I find her getting upset over a glass sitting by the sink is petty as f***! It”s not like you went out & cheated on her! She has some mental issues for sure. I guess I am old school and was raised differently. I know in today’s economy it takes both people to make ends meet, but when I was growing up, my dad worked and my mom stayed home and did her wife/mother duties. When a man is working his ass off and providing for his family, that is respect. I don’t see leaving a glass by the sink, and not putting it in the dishwasher, as disrespect. If that is the case, then children disrespect their mother/father everyday by dirtying a dish and putting in the sink. I find this leaving a glass by the sink is disrespect hideous! I have a serious OCD problem, but I would NEVER feel disrespected if my husband left his glass by the sink & didn’t put in the dishwasher!
I don’t know about divorce, but when I have spent over 2 hours in the kitchen turning out a on amazing meal, then cleaning up until every surface gleams, all for him, that single dirty glass sits there like a raised finger. It makes me feel as though we are not playing on the same team. If he had a drawing board, that he kept meticulously organized, where did his work, and I dropped my purse & wet coat on it, every time I came in the door instead of walking across the room to hang them up, it might feel the same.
Men who are thoughtful everyday have no reason to send flowers. Especially if the wife is bright enough to see that.
What if both people work their asses off? Then who is responsible for the “wife/mother” duties? Does it all still fall on the woman to do it? Does it fall on her on repeatedly ask for help with the work and therefore become seen as a nag? What if she works MORE than the husband? Makes more and therefore is the major contributor to the household?
She doesn’t have “mental issues and that is WILDLY insulting. To assume that because she’s off balance because she has asked over and over for one simple thing to be done, even though it take mere seconds (it would also take HIM mere seconds), is completely missing the point. The point is that that one very simple act would show her that she is valued and respected and listened to. And the glass was representative of many small things that add up to make it her feel like she isn’t taken seriously.
Being “old school” does not preclude one from respecting and valuing your partner’s feelings and opinions.
You, like many others, have missed the point. It isn’t about the glass. It’s about feeling like not being heard, that leads to not feeling like you are respected, that leads not not feeling like you are loved enough to be respected, heard and worth making a tiny bit of effort over.
The sink is 6 inches away from the dishwasher. The sink is empty when SO puts the glass in the sink. If the sink is empty, the dishwasher is 98% likely to be either empty, or have dirty dishes in it. How hard is it to take that *ALTERNATIVE* step and put the glass in the dishwasher? Maybe the glass could be washed, dried and put away?
The clothes hamper is 3 feet away from the middle of the floor and it takes 2 extra steps for someone over 5’9″ to walk over and actually put the dirty article of clothing INTO the hamper leaving a clear and *SAFE* place in the middle of the floor? Even taking a lob at the hamper from halfway across the room might get it in? How about leaving that clear space for your loving SO to walk through, maybe in the dark, without breaking their neck tripping on your dirty tighty-whities. How much do you love your SO to make sure they don’t hurt themselves because you are lazy or just a slob?
The shoe/boot mat is RIGHT NEXT TO THE FRONT DOOR, but somehow the boots and/or shoes never seem to make it there and are left in the middle of the entry for your SO to trip over on their way in. Or they are right behind the door so when your SO comes home and opens the door, it meets resistance and slams back into their face unexpectedly, injuring your SO.
The coat closet or coat hooks are RIGHT NEXT TO THE DOOR TOO, yet somehow the coats, jackets or sweaters never seem to go anywhere but land on the floor like a pigeon with a broken wing. Another pile of stuff to either put away for people who should be perfectly capable of doing so themselves but are so self absorbed they can’t see why it might matter to have a safe, clear passage to the front door.
The refrigerator and pantry are more traps. Your SO reaches into the fridge to get milk for their tea, or the cream for coffee. Or they reach into the cupboard for a granola bar, or a handful of crackers. What do they find instead of the half gallon of milk that was there an hour ago, or the dozen bars purchased yesterday in a grocery run? No. Your SO finds an empty box of granola bars, maybe stuffed full of the mylar wrappers. Your SO finds a jug or carton without a sufficient dribble to turn their hot beverage light.
The microwave oven is a wondrous invention intended for the convenience of heating food and beverages quickly. Yet a walk to the sink for a damp cloth or to reach for a paper towel to clean out spatter from spaghetti sauce is beyond the grasp of some.
These are a VERY SMALL NUMBER of the things we, the unloved, disrespected and unheard deal with on a daily basis. From people we love, and who supposedly love us. We spend our days cleaning up after partners, spouses, and offspring who are PERFECTLY CAPABLE of cleaning up after themselves if they only gave a sh*t to do so. Or maybe because they have gotten so used to having someone else do it for them they don’t realize the destruction they leave in their wake. Or maybe your SO’s parents didn’t teach them to “leave the campground in better condition than when they arrived”. Maybe they never saw the sign stuck to their mother’s fridge with magnets that said “if you use it, put it away; if you open it, close it; if you finish it, replace it; if you break it, repair it; if you can’t repair it, pay someone to fix it or replace it”.
We, the unloved, disrespected, and unheard, don’t get into relationships in order to make our lives more difficult, although it happens more often than we like or would like to admit. We become involved in relationships to enjoy someone’s company, share their life, and to share life’s burdens, not dump our responsibilities on someone else who has plenty enough of their own, thankyouverymuch.
Exactly this. This has been my life for several years. Despite the fact that we both work full time, caring for my son ( from previous marriage, so he is “my” son, not ours to raise together) and all the housework is MY responsibility because my husband works so hard (his words) and is just so busy. I worked 12 hour shifts running machines for piecework pay for many years, it was an exhausting job, and at the end of 12 hours come home to find dirty dishes piled on the counter directly over the dishwasher, laundry waiting, my son at a sitter, and husband sitting on the couch watching tv. He’d even leave trash on the counter instead of throwing it away, though the trash can is right next to the dishwasher. It’s nothing more than a lack of respect if you can’t at least put your dirty laundry in the hamper, your garbage in the trash can, your dirty glass in the dishwasher if you are done with it. Even if I was a stay at home mom and housewife, I am not anyone’s servant. Any adult and most children can at least pick up after themselves.
This is half of it. We both work out of the home. He does leave a glass out for re-use, but not on the counter. He also cleans the floor, washes the dishes, and otherwise shares tasks. If a job is important to one of us, it is to both of us. We work together to get stuff done, whether it is hard work, repair, or cleaning.
That is communication, love, and teamwork.
Bravo for you! That is a partnership…
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I read this and thought yes! A while ago my husband kept throwing the throw pillows off the bed behind the rocking chair in the corner when it was time to go to bed. I kept asking him to quit doing that and to put them in another corner beside the bed. When I made it in the morning (usually wearing a baby) it made it much more difficult to twist around that chair than to just bend over and pick up the pillows next to the bed. He kept blowing me off and I kept getting mad. Finally I told him that every time he throws the pillows off into the corner by the rocking chair it makes me mad at him, that it may not seem like a big deal, but it actually ruins my routine and hurts my back from the twisting with a baby… And it makes me feel very angry towards him because it felt like he didn’t care about what it meant for me. I told him If he continued to leave the pillows there I would probably feel upset every time. It’s stupid, but it mattered After I told him that, they have been put by the bed. Now when I see them there I smile, not because ‘I won’ or something like that, but because it means my husband values my thoughts, feelings, and opinions enough to put aside what he thinks is a small thing. Of course I had to tell him EXACTLY what it meant to me before he acted but how else would he know? Sometimes I think he should know things, but out mind just work differently. I am still working on this mind reading thing. Also, I think this goes both ways. Sometimes I have no idea how important something is to my husband until he tells me… Some things, I just wouldn’t put high on the priority list like he does -but if he tells me it matters, I really have to take that into consideration. It comes down to mutual respect.
Why do you even have pillows on the bed if either of you is going to judt throw them on the floor every night. Wether it’s in the corner or behind a chair, that’s not really an issue as your just going to sleep after that anyway and when you wake up, your putting them on the bed. Work on the reason you feel need for useless pillows in the first place.
You’re a jackass troll.
Forget the pillows. Why is she bothering to make the bed? Bedmaking is one of the most ridiculous wastes of time. If you like making it (or having it made) and have time, go for it. If you are pressed for time, this is one of the lowest cost ways to pick up a few minutes a day.
Sure, you should show your spouse respect and genuinely get a kick out of doing what feels seemingly illogical to you but keeps them happy and shows them you love them.
But just make sure their expectations are similar to yours and honestly ask yourself whether your important (but trivial in their eyes) issues are being catered for too. Otherwise, male or female, you’re getting a raw deal and that sucks. Especially when the spouse shares this article with you and you’re thinking, is my spouse confessing that they need to improve in this area? Or are they saying we should both get better as this? Oh wait, no. It’s a one-way finger point at me. Bummer.
You still don’t get it. You don’t put your glass in the dishwasher because she would like it, you put it in the dishwasher because you’re a grown man, not a child who expects his mother to clear up after him, nor a man who has servants to follow him around. By not putting that glass in the dishwasher, your socks in the laundry bin, the lid back on the toothpaste etc you are treating your wife like an inferior servant who is there purely to pander to your laziness while you take the position of being someone who is so terribly important that you have people to pick up the things that you are far too busy and important to pick up yourself.
OK, I feel compelled address the continuing meme of “men who expect the women to clean up after them” i keep seeing espoused here as “the real issue”.. As a man, in my house if I leave a dish on the counter, I EXPECT IT TO STAY THERE until I decide to do something else with it. be it refill it, place it in the DW or hand wash it and put it away. I don’t expect my wife or anyone else to “clean it up after me”. That my wife CHOOSES to take that glass and put it in the dishwasher before I do something else with it is on her and on her alone. She does it because SHE wants it in the dishwasher, not because I expect her to put it int he dishwasher. Blaming another person for your own choice to do exactly what you want to do, is a recipe for disaster.
The author claims he wrote this to help men stay married.
I submit it’s actually written for men who want to stay married to miserable wives.
I recommend He google “The 14 habits of highly miserable people”
Being and staying miserable is not easy. It requires constant diligence and effort.
Chances are, since he was married to a miserable woman who was working very hard to stay miserable, even if he did succumb and put the glass int eh DW every time, it would only force her to find another thing she can point to to blame her husband for her personal choice to be miserable in the relationship. I’m sure she could easily say that he always puts it int he WRONG place inside the DW “Don’t you know large glasses go in the top rack toward the back and coffee cups go toward the front?.. I’ve told you that 1000 times and you still put the tall glass in the front of the DW… clearly you don’t respect me”.
If men want to stay married to highly miserable wives they must first understand that it’s not them that is making their wives miserable, it the wife choosing misery as her preferred vehicle of self awareness.
Of all of the responses that I feel misrepresent the reality of my personal life and marriage, as well as overly emphasize the dish example, which is seriously more metaphor than anything, this is my favorite.
Mischaracterizing my ex-wife aside, your point remains quite valid.
There ARE tons of miserable people who need to control and own their shit.
And that is all I’m trying to do here. Own my shit. Yes. OF COURSE my wife and I had a bunch of disagreements where I thought I was right and she was wrong. Of course. We’re divorced. That would seem a prerequisite.
I still believe she was on the wrong side of many arguments. That is just not germane to this topic, though, nor am I in favor of giving all the lazy, shitty husbands another excuse to fall back on.
I have no doubt every wife in existence could improve her choices as a wife.
I’m only writing for husbands. And it’s not so that they will start doing more housework or “obeying” their wives.
It’s so they will UNDERSTAND (maybe for the first time ever) why some little thing seems to irrationally or disproportionately upset her. Over and over again.
That’s a huge mystery to so many guys.
If they want to stay married, they MUST figure out why that happens.
Sometimes, it’s because their wives are stupid, crazy, manipulative, abusive and insane.
99 percent of the time it’s because they are accidentally hurting their feelings over and over again without apology.
I’m sorry, but it’s true.
But nothing you wrote otherwise (minus your misinformed guesses about my marriage specifically) lacks truth.
It sounds to me like you command respect and offer it in return. And that you clearly communicate it.
There is nothing about that, that will damage marriages.
I appreciate you contributing to the conversation.
Wow Matt, I’m honored by your comment below my first one (had to reply to my own as your admin comments are unreplyable) 🙂
Your favorite? out of over 2000? thats pretty cool from my book.
True, I don’t know your ex and I made assumptions and attributed attributes to her that I do not know are correct or not, and for that I apologize.
But I was not overemphasizing the glass metaphor at all… I get it. I get the metaphor and its not about the glass… initially I was responding to the meme of “men just want to have their wives pick up after them” that I kept seeing, and offer a different perspective on that.
Somebody else linked this article written from a woman’s perspective that is the flip side of the coin of yours.
Did you get to read it?
http://brando.tickld.com/x/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time
I would be interested in your take
Not doing something (like putting a glass in the dishwasher) is not the same thing as expecting someone else to do it for you.
Yes, yes, and so much yes. What a great way to explain to men why women often feel underappreciated when they have to act as mothers. But there is also a key here for women: you have to first acknowledge and understand for yourself that it’s not about the glass, or the dirty clothes, or whatever it is, and then be able to articulate that so your man understands. Too often I see women testing their man’s ability to read their minds and act on it, and when they fail, the women get more angry. Why? You set them up to fail. I joke that men are stupid, so you can’t expect them to take subtle hints. They aren’t really stupid, they are just not clarvoyant and don’t know automatically what our expectations are of them.
This has nothing to do with scripture andbsays nothing of what the Wife does for the man. Jus telling us what we need to do for our wives. I know men in marriages 50 plus living by this standard and only smile when they are away. I’m confused. We get married before God to do what the woman says. Bit a woman with and infatuation for a “Hunk” will let that man do what he wants. I have no idea what statuates of biblical or scritptural marriage this is
No.
A cup is never a cup… Feelings of resentment or that a person isn’t important enough for things to matter to their significant other… big things, small things,repeat things; sadly it’s a toxic seed that gets placed on a patch of ground. Everytime the person feels walked on or forgotten about, that seed gets pushed further into the ground and then it takes hold…grows roots.
A cup is never just a cup people. A marriage is supposed to be a partnership where both people feel loved, safe, supported. Both husband and wife should feel like they matter. Okay… so the cup can stay in the sink for all I care but it’s not the cup that matters.
I literally just overheard my mum arguing about a similar thing with my step-father and it has been going on for years. I so badly want to print this out for my oblivious step-father and tack it onto his forehead.
I love this, I’m dealing with this myself. The only difference is that I am you.
I am so happy today because you helped me to understand where I am going wrong.
I am totally disrespectful to my partner’s sensitive “Manness”, and yes
If you don’t clean up after yourself or help with the daily chores you are essentially saying that your time is more valuable than your partner’s time. So while you go off to do something that makes you happy, your partner is essentially left behind doing chores and feeling resentful. Thank you Mark for acknowledging that some men intentionally don’t help out of spite because they don’t like chores or don’t appreciate being asked to do them. So many of us feel so validated right now. I know I do.
Sorry, I meant thank you Matt!
Not a single comment in regards to – “I do the dishes, so will leave the glass where I please”. Sorry that it is sounding as rude as it may be, but many get into relationships and tend to overlook many of the things mentioned in the comments here. Then after years of “dealing with it and expecting a change”, they cry themselves to sleep and/or file for divorce or end up ” trapped” (see the comments where there are non-working women with kids). No one really to blame in those scenarios. I feel there are a lot more women the are butthurt and need to get their feelings in check, than there are men who are standing up for – “this is a non-issue”. There are many many many things I do in regards to chores, honey-dos, projects that also compliment the many things the wife does as well. No single task is put on either one of us and there was never a discussion drawing lines in the sand as to who does what. If one day dishes, laundry, chores, etc. aren’t done by one, they sit or the other deals with them. We make sure bills are paid, money is in bank, kids are taken care of, and other things that make us happy. Not that “there is a dirty glass by/near the sink”. Priorities people.
Not doing something (like putting a glass in the dishwasher) is not the same thing as expecting someone else to do it for you.
Very true written.. Amazing work.. Any one can see how good it is just by public response..
I tagged my husband in this post on Facebook. Hell, I even shared it on my own page. Then I asked him if he read it. He said, “What the glass thing? I saw like the first paragraph but didn’t finish it. I was doing other stuff… I’ll read it later.” Other stuff meaning watching videos on Facebook, or reading other articles, or playing Xbox in the basement. Everything I ask of him everyday, and the road we’re more than likely about to walk down, is right here in this post. And he won’t even read it. Even as I type this a day later, I feel like crying. It’s not going to get better, is it? I just don’t know what to do anymore…..
i showed mine, and it just flew over his head and he started complaining about me wanting to shirk my responsibilities and not be an adult.
While you are waiting for him to read it, maybe you should read this for some perspective:
http://brando.tickld.com/x/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time
If you give me your husbands FB contact, I’ll send it to him so he can post it and Tag YOU. Just for fairness sake.
Oh shit. I leave glasses by the sink. And plates and saucepans. But then, we don’t have a dishwasher. Though so does he. We take turns at chores and have, so far a pretty fair and honest agreement about housework (and many other things). Sometimes things are over thought. If there’s a problem it’s not cause a glass is left by the sink. Jeez I hope not or my marriage is sunk!
Best advice we received on our wedding day in a card from a couple married for over 50 years: “Be the partner you wish to have.” We have BOTH lived that daily for 14 years…and it works. We are not perfect, and sometimes we get lazy, but we are always reminded of that motto and we come back around to why we married each other in the first place. If you each only think of yourselves, you will never be happy. If you each commit to thinking of the other first, life is good!
Excellent article
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You nailed it. Plain and simple.
I think this post is a perfect compliment to another story I read, written by a woman from the opposite perspective.
http://brando.tickld.com/x/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time
The two together send a pretty clear message: Respect goes both ways. You say, “I understand that putting my glass away is important to you, so I will always try my best to remember to do that.” And she says, “I understand that putting your glass away is not important to you, so I will try not to take it personally if you forget.”
Excellent article from a woman who “gets it” .
That is my wife to a “T”. Except she still hasn’t had a hamburger moment. “I shouldn’t have to micromanage everything, but I will not accept things being done differently than I would do them.” How can i get her to have a hamburger moment?
Thank you so much for writing this. Right now I am definitely feeling this way about my husband. If he would only stop saying “I love you” so much and start SHOWING this love by helping me more and earning my respect as a husband and father. As you said in your post, each time made your wife that much closer to divorce and each time my husband does something like this it takes me one step closer, too. I feel like it’s the death of a marriage by a thousand little injuries. I need to find some way to subtly give this to my husband!
Near the end, the author pointed out her need to feel loved and safe. But if she’s feeling concerned because of something small and petty like THAT, then I begin to suspect that she really has no idea what “unloved” or “unsafe” even means. If someone is actually willing to get divorced over such petty things preventing them from feeling respected or validated, then they really have no idea just how lucky they are. She wasn’t a victim of domestic abuse, wasn’t being beaten, starved, or raped. Wasn’t watching her children being abused. She wasn’t told to avoid doctors so the money could be diverted to his vices. Wasn’t kept in isolation. Wasn’t constantly being insulted and belittled in public. Wasn’t working overtime at a full-time job, only to have her wages completely taken from her. But even setting aside such obvious mistreatment, he wasn’t even being a jerk about it. He wasn’t saying or even just expecting that she should always clean up after him. He wasn’t making humongous, tornado-came-through messes and leaving them for her. He was just being human, while she was just being petty, picky, and difficult to please. Yes, a husband should have some care for his wife’s feelings, but a wife shouldn’t let her feelings swell up and get in the way of seeing things as they really are. Because sure, we’d all like to be adored and pandered to. But that’s not love, that’s borderline worship! Actually expecting someone to cater to our every whim is unreasonable and selfish. As long as we’re with someone that is even halfway trying to be decent to us, and isn’t doing us terribly wrong, we should just suck the rest of it up and count our blessings. (This coming from a woman.)
Great read, you really did put it in words than anyone can understand and explained our (wives, gf) feelings
THANK YOU! This expresses what I feel exactly. I read it to my husband after having similar conversations over the years and we cried. He understood for the first time because you state almost everything I have been saying but the light bulb finally went on. Thank you! I think this is really going to help my marriage.
Well spoken like someone who’s been through something in life thanks and my hats off to u now as a young man I to need to change for the better cause afterall its four seconds that’s all it takes to make her smile and feel loved and appreciated thanks
Big “nope” here. Leaving a dirty dish does not equal “I don’t care about you”.
Did you care about her? Really and truly? If not, then there was your issue, dirty dishes or no.
If you did and she interpreted this act in a way you didn’t mean, then that is on her- she doesn’t get to re-interpret your actions in a way that suits her narrative. It would have been a nice and good thing to do what she wanted. It would have been a blessing to her. And as a good friend you should have been looking for ways to bless her every day.
But as a baseline essential act in marriage? No way. Don’t buy it. She was not entitled to a marriage free of dirty dishes, and if that’s the reason she left then she is the one missing out.
But if she left because you truly didn’t care about her, then that should be your focus, not leaving out dirty dishes. Because if you didn’t care, no amount of putting away dishes would have saved your marriage.
The dirty glass was a distraction either way, not the core issue or even a symbol of the core issue.
I’m totally with you, Jeff_S. I skimmed through some of his other posts. He has another post where he talks about how (1) he pressured his wife to get over her father’s death faster because her grief was damaging their marriage and (2) he denied that she had postpartum depression. These types of issues are clearly much more indicative of the their marital problems, but this post doesn’t even gesture toward those types of things.
The dirty glass is a total distraction, and a pretty inept metaphor (or example, or whatever type of figure it is supposed to be).
Reblogged this on Paths I Walk and commented:
Sometimes it takes pain for lessons to stick. Hopefully your pain will help others learn without the drastic conclusion.
Saturday: Spent 4 hours cleaning our office, including her desk. Organized all her papers nicely. Cleaned our huge bathroom including her massive skid mark in the toilet. Made dinner that night and cleaned it up!
Sunday: Got all the kids ready for church, made a killer chicken crockpot dinner for when we got home….
…Ate a bowl of cereal and left it on the counter watching football. <<<<< this is where I fucked it up
Monday: Wife facebooks me this post with a big smile on her face… facepalm
Now you facbook her with this post: http://brando.tickld.com/x/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time
Reblogged this on BUKUNMI'S DIARY and commented:
Everything can truly change forever…
You nailed it. Thank you
Maybe it is more about not having someone in a relationship that is selfish. Maybe it is just that simple. Don’t get married if you cannot get past being so selfish and self-centered that you need to fight about everything.
That article made me laugh. If she felt disrespected and had to leave because he left dishes in the sink he probably ended better off in the long run. I would suggest that a partnership, like compromise, goes both ways. It seems silly that something so trivial would destroy a relationship. Which makes me think that it was largely ended because it wasn’t really that strong in the first place.
I love my wife and yet some of her mannerisms/routines can annoy me. But those are always weighed against their importance in my life and the very real understanding that I too do things that annoy here. Nothing that she does can annoy me enough to not want her in my life. I think this wife found the exact opposite which led to their divorce which leads to my belief it wasn’t that strong of a relationship in the first place.
If a person has perspective they realize the small stuff doesn’t outweigh the greater value of the total relationship.
Its also important to remember love languagess – her love language was probably acts of service. there are 5 love languages – acts of service / time spent / physical touch / words of affirmation / gifts. The primary one is the one that makes you feel loved. Hers was probably acts of service so none of the other ones would meet her primary need to have love expressed.
I’m currently living with my fiancé and for the first time in our almost 3 year relationship, this move is officially “forever.” Hahs. I have issues with him not picking up after himself, leaving dishes on the table, leaving his clothes on the floor even though the basket is inches away. I grew up in a clean home where my mother kept our home clean. We learn in grade school to put away our toys after we play with them where we got them from. Same concept at home. I don’t always get mad at my fiancé bc he works hard, but I do get mad when I have stress from work and no one helps around the house. I would never divorce him bc of a glass. I would tell him my frustrations and how we can fix it. Small steps. I appreciate this article bc it makes me not look crazy about a dish. The small things really do matter.
You mother kept your home clean when you were growing up?
Did you happen to hear yourself when you said that?
You understand the situation perfectly. It’s about respect and love. Women work “The second shift” at home and still do most of the childcare. Most men have no idea what that feelsi like. When ms woman knows her partner is there to help and had her back, it’s not so overwhelming. And there’s more time and energy for loving making. I hope you find love as you bring this wisdom into your next relationship.
Buddy, you nailed it and have become a man…. except for one tiny thing. I have personally identified why the dirty glass by the sink mattered and that it did in fact equal lack of respect. Calmly and numerous times. An eventually left a 2 year relationship. Some boys just don’t care or want to grow up even when you do explain in terms even they can understand.
Hallelujah! Thank you SO MUCH for this, Matt! You are right! It’s not about the dishes or the dirty laundry on the floor but it’s about wanting to feel respected. You’ve explained it clearly and you’ve inspired me as a woman to be proactive and ask for what I need (love and respect) rather than wait until my resentment has piled up and comes crashing down on my partner. THANK YOU!
This is perfect. I used to try to explain to my husband that it hurts me when you disrespect how hard I work to keep our house clean when you just come in and dump things everywhere. He never cared and I always felt so disrespected this puts everything into perspective. thank you for sharing if I had known how to say these things instead of fighting over the glass maybe my marriage would have worked.
I find that I’ve learned more from reading Matts blog posts than I ever did in marital counseling
“When you choose to love someone, it becomes your pleasure to do things that enhance their lives and bring you closer together, rather than a chore.”
Can’t you apply this statement to the wife? She could have put the glass in the dishwasher as an act of love.
You missed the point, hunny
I think you’re missing the point too.
So, the woman wants to feel appreciated and respected. And this, somehow, is done by the man reading your mind well enough to know what to do to keep you happy? Because, let’s face it, you’re never going to tell us.
However, when the slightest thing ticks you off, sparks a neurotic episode but leaves the man scratching his head wondering what caused all this, who do you really think is in the wrong here? Ok, you tidied. How is making a mess again disrespecting that? People live in the house, mess will be made, it’s inevitable. Tidying is a repeating job, just like laundry, food shopping etc. So stop getting so worked up about it.
It’s a glass, left by the sink because it may be used again (I openly admit to doing this too). From the man’s point of view, it’s there because it’s still fulfilling a purpose. From our point of view it isn’t bothering anyone.
However, if you have enough issues to go off on one because 1 little thing is out of place in the house, then our relationship isn’t going to last long either.
Love is not about changing people or their behavior. Sorry ladies, it just isn’t.
If you go into a relationship thinking “this would be perfect if I can just change the way he…” No, it’ll never work. Love people for who they are, not what you think you can make them be.
He sure did.
No he didn’t miss the point. He just merely presented the other side of the coin. If the man had divorced his wife for continually asking him to put his cup in the dishwasher how would your thoughts be then? What this is is a classic clash of understandings. Each need to understand the other. But the important point of that is…”seek first to understand then to be understood”. It also seems as if there was a great lack of communication. Communication consists of two important things…transmitting and receiving. Without both there is no communication.
Oh yes he did. The wife didn’t get the glass dirty in the first place. Why should she have to do it?
While I agree that she could have not said a thing and just taken care of it herself, the point is that she probably HAD put his dishes away a hundred other times, and casually mentioned it a few dozen times,and lovingly asked several times. This particular time was the last straw; I believe that what’s he’s talking about here.
She HAD to put them away? Why do you think that?
Who is forcing her to put His dishes in the DW?
What would happen if she made a choice not to?
She puts the dishes in the dishwasher because SHE WANTS THEM THERE, not because she HAS TO put them there.
Blaming her spouse for somehow “forcing her” to do the exact thing she wants to do is asinine.
I think Joel’s broader point is that we don’t really know the other details. To him, if her getting worked up about a “glass by the sink” is irrational, then he may find it equally irrational to get upset about the way she leaves toothpaste in the sink, or hair in the shower (“I’m not giving her s**t about those things, why is she sweating me about a stupid glass?”). He chooses to let those things go because they are not worth fighting over.
Agree! It’s not the point. But the sole focus is on the dish he forgot or didn’t want to place into the dish washer. But what about what he does outside the home…whether it’s tending to outside chores to keep her from having to get her hands dirty, or declining going out for a drink with the guys bc he wants to see her beautiful face as soon as he gets off work, after putting in 10-12 hours?!?! There are many things a man does that he doesn’t even tell his wife, that if he did, a dirty glass would seem so inconsiderate of her! And vice versa for the woman too. I’m sure there are things my wife does that she doesn’t tell me the complete story! She is a strong, independent woman, just as I’m a strong, independent man!
And guess what ladies…if a dish really insults you that much, being in a relationship is not what you need!
No, because he doesn’t care about the glass and she does. If it was a matter of her not caring, but it mattered so much to him that she cared enough to put the glass in the dishwasher, then yes, it’d be a perfect reversal. But as long as she cares and he doesn’t, they are caring about different things – love and respect vs. a glass on the counter.
That’s exactly what I was thinking! This fella, God bless him, is taking full responsibility when, while it takes 2 people to make a marriage, it takes 2 to break one.
Perhaps, people, it’s because this guy understands that one cannot change anyone but one’s self. If EACH PARTNER were to take 100% responsibility… then everything would go so much smoother, don’t you think?
So very true, there may be things she takes for granted of him too. It works both ways in a marriage. Be thankful for each other you both have faults. Love one another we never know when our last day will come. If you loose a spouse due to death, she may think back and say I’d give anything to just have him put his glass by the sink for me to put up. there is always 2 sides to look at things.
Couldn’t agree more. He’s placed the blame solely on his own shoulders, and that’s not fair to him or to his ex. It’s not about blame. Yes, we all want to be the best partner we can be. But no one is perfect, we all have our habits and ways and there’s no one in the world that’s going to match up exactly, so there will always be that friction. It is the responsibility of both parties to acknowledge and accept that friction.
In this scenario, it’s (obviously) a reasonable expectation for the husband to recognize when one his seemingly innocuous habits is interpreted as something other than innocuous to his wife. However, it’s also a reasonable expectation for the wife to recognize that her husband, the man she chose and who chose her, isn’t going out of his way to disrespect her and their relationship every time he takes a glass out of the cupboard.
The nature of the human mind, and how it works differently between individuals (regardless of gender), means that there will always be this struggle. But a successful partnership works out a way to consistently communicate, but to also deal with the inevitable points of contention. That isn’t an easy thing, and it’s really easy for someone who’s conscientious and considerate to very quickly lay the blame at their own feet when things fall apart. But self-loathing doesn’t help anyone move forward.
Couldn’t agree more. He’s placed the blame solely on his own shoulders, and that’s not fair to him or to his ex. It’s not about blame. Yes, we all want to be the best partner we can be. But no one is perfect, we all have our habits and ways and there’s no one in the world that’s going to match up exactly, so there will always be that friction. It is the responsibility of both parties to acknowledge and accept that friction.
In this scenario, it’s (obviously) a reasonable expectation for the husband to recognize when one his seemingly innocuous habits is interpreted as something other than innocuous to his wife. However, it’s also a reasonable expectation for the wife to recognize that her husband, the man she chose and who chose her, isn’t going out of his way to disrespect her and their relationship every time he takes a glass out of the cupboard.
The nature of the human mind, and how it works differently between individuals (regardless of gender), means that there will always be this struggle. But a successful partnership works out a way to consistently communicate, but to also deal with the inevitable points of contention. That isn’t an easy thing, and it’s really easy for someone who’s conscientious and considerate to very quickly lay the blame at their own feet when things fall apart. But self-loathing doesn’t help anyone move forward.
It takes two to make a marriage, yes. But sometimes, not necessarily in this case, but in many, it only takes one to break the marriage. When one decides they’ve had enough, sometimes there’s nothing the other can do to fix it.
You know, it really doesn’t. You can break your heart trying to save your marriage, and if your partner isn’t interested in being part of the solution, you’re basically SOL.
In the end, my partner broke every promise he made to me. He dropped out of martial counselling, because the counselor tried to hold him accountable for his own actions (“Wait, last week you agreed to do this thing. Now you’re saying you didn’t do this thing. What’s up with that?”) And he didn’t want to go back, because he figured any other counselor would probably do the same thing. He lied. He lied about sex. He denigrated my work. Oh, and eventually he tried hitting me, but seriously, it was pretty much over by then, and that mostly clarified to me that I absolutely did not want to sleep besides him any longer.
It’s important that people take responsibility… but responsibility isn’t always shared equally. And sometimes, the people who bear the most take the least.
(This is really complicated for me. I’m happy with who I am, and I’m happy with my life. But I gave this man most of the years in which I could have had children, and while finding companionship has generally come fairly easily to me, I really notice how hard it is for me to trust men enough to really let them close.)
I’ve been waiting about 10 yrs for the glass to be put away. Leaving it out started 10 yrs into the marriage. Along with the glass is coffe cups left around the houise, a dirty toilet seat a few times a week (seriouisly, how long does it take to turn around and check/wipe it?), dirt ring in the tub (i don’t use it), piles of dirty clothes on the bedroom floor, clean laundry piled 2′ high on his dresser, mud, dirt, & other yard debris tracked into the home several times a day, several pairs of shoes on the floor, sometimes left in the family room (because he’s going to wear them again).
See, this is why I won’t move the glass. I’ve been asking politely nearly every day for over 10 yrs now to do each of these things, he’ll do it later, pouting like a child forced to do chores all day long, meanwhile, I’m doing our bookkeeping, shopping so we never run out of anything (unless he doesn’t tell me he’s used the last of something I don’t use), constantly dusting off high ceilings, cleaning blinds, scrubbing toilets, floors, and hiding my tools, because he can never find his own since he doesn’t put anything away and he took mine and lost them too. And I also find time to cook for him and clean up the mess with no help from him, make sure the toilet seat is clean after I use it, put my own dirty clothes in a hamper, keep shoes in the closet, etc. I think I understand now why couples in their 60s & 70s separate. For now there is still a glimmer of hope that he will understand.
Did a woman really write this article 🙂
Boy, did he.
You might want to re-read this article again.
Yes. A thousand times, yes. This made me cry! You have so eloquently described what I have tried to explain to my husband a billion times. Thank you <3
Well. Today you should probably write about something less contentious, Matt. Vacuuming, perhaps?
Reblogged this on Aging Gracefully My Ass and commented:
This is a change for AGMA. I don’t normally reblog posts. But this one affected me so profoundly yesterday that I wanted to share it. I was in tears when I finished it which for this crusty, ol’ AGMA, is saying something. Clearly Matt has hit a nerve with many out there based on the 2000+ comments. What do you think?
How about we consider that the sex of the offending partner does not matter? I’m a man and I just ended a decade long relationship for similar reasons.
Ken Ross – yes, I agree. I loved this article and I think Matt has shown real insight into his relationship. But there are a few things that I would disagree with, and one of them was that a guy wouldn’t ever feel this way. Of course guys feel this way, all the time, it is just that it is usually not about a glass next to the sink. It is about things that are important to them – having respect for their private spaces, turning up to their activities, whatever pushes a particular guy’s button.
Agreed. I am a female and in past relationships have absolutely been the party to discount and disrespect my partner regarding these “silly” things because, to be honest, I truly didn’t value or respect them and should not have been in the relationship. Needless to say, that is over. After a lot of time and personal growth I am now in a long endlessly loving relationship and can’t fathom being that party again. I will forever regret how I thought and behaved in the past. Our partners should build us up and help us grow to our greatest selves. I appreciate this post greatly.
Brilliant Matt! I reblogged this on my blog – hope that’s okay with you!
Amazing article! smalls things really matter especially to women.
There is nothing sexier and more loving than a person who pays attention to their loved ones feelings. That’s what PARTNERS FOR LIFE do! Thanks for this post.
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I am a woman with a husband who ( for 30 years) did so many things that hurt me–small inconsequential things to him, huge things to me. One day, I realized that to love him, I had to admit that he loved me and was not doing anything to hurt me on purpose. He had stayed with me for 30 years. So I changed. Now I just pick up his clothes from the floor, put the dishes in the dishwasher, etc. It doesn’t hurt me. Things are done the way I want them, and best of all, we don’t fight. I am sorry it took me 30 years to realize how to accept that he wasn’t disrespecting me by not acquiescing to my demands. The road goes two ways. By accepting his “shortcomings” I am showing him respect. He may never realize it, bit I know he is relieved to be able to be himself without being nagged at.
And THIS is where the “it goes both ways” works 🙂 Good for you!! Each partner is responsible for how he/she takes what happens. “Q-TIP” – Quit Taking It Personally – is a good way to live 🙂
Your husband spent 30 years leaving his dirty clothes on the floor and dirty dishes in the sink and never cared about how it upset you? And now you’re cleaning up after him like he’s a child? And he’s okay with that? That doesn’t sound to me like you were being too demanding. People kick out roommates for less that what you describe him doing. Being so irresponsible that you force other people to clean up after you isn’t loving behavior. He is showing you disrespect. He doesn’t care about picking up after himself because he doesn’t think it’s his responsibility to do so, no other reason. Lots of men stay in marriages simply because they like the benefits they get, not out of love, and because they don’t want to change. Whether or not you think him staying 30 years is beside the point, it doesn’t justify him being so slobbish and ignoring how much it bothered you until you decided it’s less hassle to just CLEAN UP AFTER A GROWN HUMAN than to try to get him to behave like an adult.
It took him 30 years to train you, but you FINALLY learned.
Do you also knit sweaters? Maybe you can make one for yourself that says “Doormat”?
This is just patently ridiculous. We accept life on its terms, and our partner on theirs. Compromise is for big things. “Do we buy this car or that.” Acceptance is for small things. I am not saying don’t broach a the subject of a small thing that bothers you, but, if it doesn’t go your way, just move on. Life is too short to get wrapped around the axle on the small crap.
If you are so bothered by a dish by the sink that it will end your marriage, you have actively nurtured your moronic pet peeve. Having a significant emotional response to a small habitual occurrence is absurd. Ending a marriage over it is pathetic. I hope to god that this couple did not have small children. Our responsibility to our families is a lot bigger than our peeves.
The worst part is that this crap is becoming more and more common. People place so much importance on their feelings that they examine their feelings about everything in life. And we see increasing numbers of divorces over ridiculous crap. And more kids growing up in single parent households.
Christine, rock on. Ignore these self centered folks justifying their own neurotic tendencies by criticizing sanity and sanguinity.
Thank you Matt, the roles in my relationship are reversed in this, my husband is your wife. I see now the multitude of times I didn’t see what he was feeling and trying to explain. It’s not really a sex thing, some people are different. He feels hurt, when I do not. Your description of the “man”, is a mirror for myself.
This reminds me of a similar frustration when a partner refuses to participate in minor decisions, such as where to eat. I was told I should be happy, because I always “got my way” in every decision. But in reality, it was exhausting and just really not that much fun. I wanted a fully participating partner, who contributed and made things more interesting. Not just a prop that nodded along to everything I said.
oh my gosh, how controlling is it to make such an issue about a glass the sink or a towel on the floor? Yes, I want respect and kindness from my husband but I don’t extrapolate my emotional needs onto such a petty and small matter. I don’t project my need for security onto minor household chores.
Did I permanently alter the direction I put the toilet paper in the dispenser to please my husband? Yes I did. That was important to him. You have to pick your battles in marriage. The glass by the sink is such a small matter. I have been married 18 years. We have annoyed each other many times and many ways. Tolerance, patience, forbearance are a necessity.
The toilet-paper roll was a small matter. You changed because it bothered him. You did exactly what this article suggests–and that showed that you loved him and would do even small things that were important to him. The glass by the sink is another small matter. She cares; he doesn’t. But he could use four seconds to show that he will do even small things that matter to her, simply because they matter to her, and she matters to him. Just like you did with the toilet-paper roll.
I’ve been marred 28 years. I’ve made a lot of small changes because they matter to my husband, and he’s done the same for me. I’ve absolutely felt the sense of disrespect, though, when the things I spend a large part of my time on go not only unappreciated, but disregarded, and I go unsupported in things that matter to me. It happens–just like I sometimes go a couple of weeks without doing something he likes (a common one is going a couple of weeks without cooking the hearty meals he likes, because I get super tired of the entire process of planning and cooking meals and coast along on quick-fix foods for a while).
Right now, a couple of the things that matter to my husband are digging his own basement by hand, and making his Dad’s tiny acreage into a working farm. The first is costing us money; the second will mean lots of Saturdays left alone with the kids while he and his brother work the farm. Meanwhile, I want a fresh cloth and pretty dishes on the table on Sundays when I’ve prepared an extra-good meal. Now I can tell you, my husband cares even less about pretty dishes than I care about having a basement, and he rarely remembers to change the tablecloth. It seems every Sunday, he starts to set random plastic kid-friendly leftover dishes on the table, and either I or my daughter (who also understands pretty dishes)–or sometimes one of the twins, who are boys, but at six haven’t decided not to care about pretty dishes yet–will remind him. He rolls his eyes good-humoredly and resets the table…and I let that be enough. But once or twice he has remembered without me saying so–changed the cloth, got out the better dishes. And when he does, I feel SEEN and HEARD, I feel honored and respected, I feel like he knows me and cares about me, even if he doesn’t care about dishes.
That’s what Matt has right. You have it right, too, or you wouldn’t have changed the way you hang that toilet-paper roll.
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Wow, I am “the stubborn man” in this one…. Your lesson just slapped me in the heart. Perhaps it warrants a new conversation between my soon to be husband and I.
Thank you.
A VERY stubborn girl
Thank you so much for your openness and honesty!!! I have experienced this exact same struggle in my marriage for far too many years, but I have never been able to define how this struggle makes me feel, how it affects me. Thank you for helping me put words to the situation, not just for me but for my husband too. God has been working in my heart and in my marriage for a very long time now, but His plan is just now being revealed to me. God is showing me the results of His work and things are becoming amazing for myself and my marriage and my family! Your post is just one more piece of God’s plan and I am so forever thankful for and blessed by your words!! May God continue to bless you!!!!!
Reblogged this on Kymberli.
Reblogged this on Our Basic Life and commented:
This is so true on so many levels
does this “wife” go out and chop wood to stay warm during the winter? Does she go out and shovel the drive? Mow the lawn? Kill the spiders? Tile the bathroom? How are the men shown respect if the men do everything to “respect” their wife?
If she is a real women, she will show respect to her man as he shows his love for her which for many of us is in the small things and not just the grand gestures. It’s a cyclic thing…I believe that’s why God commanded that a husband love his wife and the wife respect her husband…not the reverse. It doesn’t work otherwise.
Funny thing: I need love from my wife just as much as I want respect, and she wants my respect just as much as she wants my love.
Paul says for wives to respect their husbands and husbands to love their wives. This doesn’t necessarily suggest that these are the most important things each gender needs, only that these were areas that Paul felt they needed to be instructed.
Be careful about what boxes you place people in based on gender. My wife gets my respect, something she doesn’t often get as a woman in our culture, and you should see the way it lights her up and empowers her.
If she’s a good wife, she does. I’d much rather do all of the above and leave the dishes to my husband. He, on the other hand…not so much!
Interesting read. I agree with this to a point. I think this really needs to be about accepting who your partner is too. It took me many years together, but one thing I finally learned, is to not set him up for failure. I know my husband is honest to a fault, so asking him, “Does this dress make me look fat?”, will get the answer, “Well yes honey you are fat. No matter what you wear, you will be fat in it.” I can imagine the audible gasps when reading that. It doesnt bother me though, because he doesn’t care that I’m fat. He doesn’t see fat as a bad, ugly thing and now, neither do I. It’s just a discription of a body type.
No one is a mind reader. This sounds like communication and dialog that should have been happening during the marriage before it ever escalated. He always did this, so why did it ever even become an issue? Because she internalized it. She made it about his love and affection towards her. It because fights of, “Can’t you just put your glass in the dishwasher?” When it should have been, “Is there a reason why?” Or “I understand why you don’t want to put the glass in, can we find a compromise to the situation ?” For me personally, this just wouldn’t be an issue. I really try not to sweat the small stuff with my husband. If this is something this man has always done, then why take it personally? Women tend to over think things and find hidden meaning into things that don’t exist. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love and respect you, it means he wasn’t done with the glass yet. He doesn’t want to clutter up the living room or make more dishes by getting a new glass every time. When I married my husband, I vowed to love all of him and accept him for who he is, as he vowed about me. It’s about accepting who your partner is, and not expecting them to change. It’s about not trying to change them into who you think/want them to be. Okay, getting off my soap box now.
Why do women fall in love with a man then spend years trying to change him. Then years later look at him and say your not the man I married you’ve changed. Getting what you want always comes with a price. I fell in love with my wife 16 years ago today my love has never changed. Her imperfections is what makes her perfect for me and I would never change a thing. Be careful what you wish for you just might get it
Pushing to change your partner is wrong … we rarely fall in love with our identical twins. Most often couples have differing view points, taste in music..clothing, sometimes even religion and *gasp* politics ? We fall in love with someone as they are…. or we should. If you fall in love with someone because …”they’d be perfect if they were skinnier or did this different…” do you both a favor and just keep walking. We all deserve to be loved for the beautiful, messy people we are.
You have gotten this mostly right. After decades of counselling folks in troubled marriages, it is clear to me that men rarely accept the advice of women counselors, and will argue long and hard with a male counselor regarding their “position.” As I’ve gotten more experience (and older) I have ceased all discussions with fools after 5 minutes. I simply say, “You are here in front of me today because your ideas regarding your role in this marriage are ‘defective,’ and after 48 years of successful (not perfect) marriage, I almost certainly know things that you do not.” In most cases, the men will either GET UP AND leave or begin to listen. I let them know that I did not come to debate with them. My marriage has stood the test of time and stormy seas, theirs is in the “dumper.”
I’ll explain the basis for most all of my counseling by saying women are created having love (not sex) as their GREATEST NEED. Men, on the other hand, are created having their GREATEST NEED being acceptance and adulation. Many men (wanting to play the victim) tell me that their wife left them for another man. I immediately tell them that it is not so. I tell them, she left to find another source for her GREATEST NEED (love), because you failed to provide it. Although infidelity is ALWAYS a mistake, it is more understandable if one understands the principles of GREATEST NEED.
Amen, amen, amen to that! I wish there were more counselors like you, Jim Cooper. And it’s not just marriages this impacts either. I have been with the same wonderful man for the past 10 yrs. We are not married, but we finally decided to give living together a try a few years ago. I have felt increasingly lonely and am considering moving out and moving on with my life without him. The one “flaw” I have trouble dealing with that’s driving me to this? He has a lot of trouble meeting my needs for feeling loved. It’s not that he doesn’t do things that irritate me–like leaving his stuff in places it’s difficult to safely navigate around–but the irritating things are not the things that put him at risk of losing me. The thing that puts him at risk is his lack of ability to be emotionally vulnerable with me and show me he loves me. I long for him to look into my eyes and say, “I love you honey.” It literally hurts down deep inside me due to his inability to even occasionally show love with words and physical expressions (a well placed smile and wink, eye contact, etc). Sadly, there is no talking about it with him. I’ve tried. I reckon once I leave he’ll finally get it and by then it will be too late.
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This post made me tear up. I feel for the first time that there’s a detailed dissection of how the glass by the sink, the socks on the floor, the bottles unwashed and all these seemingly meaningless things translate in a marriage. I’m just starting the process to divorce my husband because he won’t do the dishes, or give our baby regular baths, or help cleanup after I cook, or help cook, or clean or help clean or dress our daughter for school or pack lunches. He’s pretty much decided to do nothing regularly which means I have to do everything. No amount of quiet thoughtful meetings have helped, or stomping yelling arguments. I’ve concluded that I married an inconsiderate asshole. It was easy to argue but then overlook this when it was just us, but with a baby I am withering under the stress. I need help, I need to be loved enough that he CARES that I’m withering and that he could alleviate this. And in lieu of help I need to not see him sitting there doing nothing while I do everything. I think he’ll get it someday but that’ll be in another time, years after our divorce. In any case, THANK YOU for your insight. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
She didn’t leave simply because he left glasses by the sink. His refusing to to put the glass in the dishwasher shows you he was passive aggressive towards her in the entire marriage. For instance, my ex refused to throw away the open cans of Copenhagen dip spit that he left around the house. I asked nicely for two years for him to throw them in the trash can b/c my neck was broken, the wet vacuum was very heavy, and the dog would walk by, whack the dip spit onto the carpet, and then I’d have to clean it up. Using this vacuum literally made me have to visit the doctor b/c my right arm would be paralyzed afterwards. Was this the only thing he did to me? Nope. It was just one of many things that he refused to do on a daily basis that might have made my life better. So when he balanced a can of dip spit on my seat on the couch, and left it for me to find, that was it. No more ignoring me, not talking, no sex, stonewalling, abusive language, cutting me down, etc. I asked him for very small things in our marriage–lie down beside me for 10 minutes b/c I’m in so much pain, but Sports Center was more important (even though we had DVR). Take a walk with me around the neighborhood at night b/c I’m in so much pain and can’t sleep, and his answer was always “No.” This guy did the same thing to his wife–death by a thousand cuts.
Yes! This happened to me just last night. Why leave a dish in the sink? So that your wife has to pick it up and put it into the DW? The sink is literally just 2 inches from our dishwasher. It takes just as much effort to put it into the DW as into the sink. So why not show some respect for your wife and just put it into the dishwasher. One less thing for her to do.
I “get” both sides of the argument. My relationship with my wife is very much mirrored in this post and I found myself agreeing with both perspectives.
However, what I see in this, and his conclusion, falls into a current and all too common theme in American culture. “She is civilized, responsible, mature. He is uncultured, undisciplined, and selfish. If he doesn’t lock-step into her routine and standards then he doesn’t love her the way she deserves and will never grow up. He’s a child and she refuses to be his mother anymore. Now, all too late he has realized what he has lost and he knows he deserves it.”
But there is something missing. It’s subtle and/or all too easy to dismiss. Where is her culpability? Where is her opportunity for growth? Are we really just to swallow that her version of “having it together” is the reasonable one? Are her emotions the only valid ones? We could just as easily say that the reason for their divorce was due to her inability to grow.
He says “I don’t have an emotional attachment to the glass on the counter but it does make some things a bit more convenient for me”. She says “This glass is symbolic of our marriage to me.”
I may be misstating or oversimplifying the matter but this is what it sounds like.
One of these statements is reasonable. The other is borderline psychotic.
Why is her learning which battles to fight not an option?
So spot on
This is a thought-provoking post, and the replies you’ve received on it so far are fantastic. This is one time I’m glad I didn’t heed the advice to ‘never read the comments’. I see lots of wisdom in both the essay and the responses. (Align me with those that are saying that either gender can play either role.)
You’ve captured well most of the conflicts my husband and I had in the first 18 years or so of our now 25-year marriage.
Things changed dramatically for us, when we had to deal with three big crises toward the end of that time: our young adult child was diagnosed with cancer; troubles within my always-dysfunctional family of origin came to a breaking point; and my husband (the wage earner) lost his job and was out of work for 11 months. (We lost everything and had to start over in an apartment like newlyweds … broken, sad, 40-something, newlyweds.)
These events probably should have broken us up, but what they did was strip us bare of our preconceived notions and intellectual posturings. The only thing either of us had to depend on was the other. As we created a new life from the ashes of the old, we became somehow better with each other.
I wish I could articulate the manner of the change, but all I know is that it happened, and that the conflict dynamic you describe is no longer a feature of our relationship. I suspect much of the difference has something to do with us forgiving each other for, well, for everything that came before.
I just wanted everyone to know that it can change. (I do hope, though, it doesn’t require other couples to go through the same kind of stuff we did.)
Hey there … It’s funny – I had a similar situation. My husband asked me to fill his water bottle/container in the morning and place in fridge so he would have a cold water each night to take to his nightstand – in case he got thirsty. (He commuted off to his stressful job at 5.30am and returned home by 7.30pm)… Sounds easy enough for me to do, right? I NEVER remembered to fill it. EVER.
We fought about THIS – like – every night…until finally, in therapy – my therapist looks at me and says – why do you forget to fill his water bottle?
I shrugged – “IDK – I don’t remember – it’s not exactly the first thing I think of everyday…”
My therapist stared at me quizzically and reinforced, “It’s not about the water. It’s about the fact that you don’t think about him or consider his needs. Filling his water bottle is a sign to him that says – Hey! She loves me – she thought enough of me to fill my water like I asked her to…”
Then she turns to my husband and says, “Okay – so she can’t read your mind. You could say to her… “Hey – do you mind filling my water for me during the day? It would mean a lot to me… because I like to have cold water on my nightstand in case I get thirsty in the middle of the night.”
** My point – As the wife/woman, I had to realize by not filling his water bottle every day and keeping it cold – was a sign to him that I didn’t think about him nor care about his little big need. He too felt alone, unloved, disrespected and abandoned – whether I cared about this task or not, I had to understand and accept that it meant something to him… and if I cared… to us. Stupid as it sounded to me.
Once I grasped this whole need/fulfill my needs “thing”, though – it made sense. I accepted it and moved on – I made a note/reminder to fill water bottle for a few days, then it became habit – and ironically – as I was filling the water bottle – I thought of him, lol.
Interestingly, I think though – there are layers and layers of other issues that make us realize/care about other’s needs or not – but that’s a whole nother thing…
Anyway – good luck – I think it’s great you have this blog… you’re not alone…
I hate to say it, but these two people were not meant to be. Personally, I could not be with a person that gets irritated by small shit like that and takes. If a person equates that to a lack of respect then perhaps they need to rethink their life. Something like this goes both ways. I think it is disrespectful of her not to acknowledge that he might want to use the glass again or some of the other reasons he gave. Also, relationships are more about accepting the other person for who they are. When you try to change someone, that leads to resentment.
One thing is missing from here…post and comments. The deeper reason that is very personal to her that she might not even admit. I will.
I hate to clean the bathroom, feel like a mature male adult should have better aim. It’s an issue that hurts. Why ? Because as a child/teen, cleaning the bathroom was one of many responsibilities, never assigned to the boys in the family. The message…it was beneath them. I resented it then, still do now.
Partial solution…gave my own son sole responsibility for the bathroom he shared with his sister. He is very considerate now. As for my husband, whose mother cleaned up after her husband and 3 sons all her life…he had the same message growing up. He never had to clean a bathroom.
He does now that he’s retired, and his aim has improved.
I’m sorry it took me so long to deliver my own message. Communication is vital.
Married 42 years.
Vanbytheriver, you hit the nail on the head. If a task is viewed as “below” a person–but they want their mate to do that task–then what’s implied is a level of disrespect that can change when discussed sensitively yet openly. It’s just that most of us are horrible with those discussions.
It didn’t happen early on…too bad, it could have prevented a buildup of resentment, that had nothing to do with him or his toilet habits. Thanks.
I would only disagree that this issue stems from men and women having different emotional responses. You would feel the same if it was your share of the work to keep the house in order. If I came to your job and left paperwork lying around instead of putting it back into whatever filing system you have, then brushed you off and said I didn’t mind it being out, you would feel disrespected. It’s not really about this one glass. It’s that I spent an extra hour or so that day fixing each little 4 second thing that my partner didn’t do. Picked up a sock, wiped tea off the counter, put a plate in the sink, straightened up the mess on the table, moved his keys to the key holder… and on and on. And then I didn’t have time to sit and read, or work on my novel, or watch youtube, or finally clean out the fridge. It’s him assuming that housework will get taken care of without any effort on his part to maintain it. It’s not just that this glass matters to me, so it should matter to him. It’s that he doesn’t think twice about whether he’s making my day harder. It’s like throwing trash on the ground instead of walking to the trash can because you see that a janitor is picking up trash.
This is so true. If I calculated how much time I spent cleaning up after my partner and then used that time productively toward my own goals (currently sleep), I would be a well rested woman.
All these little mistakes say to me is “my time is more valuable than yours.”
100% spot on true! Hard enough to take if you are at home all day and cooking, cleaning, etc is your job, but even tougher if those expectations are layered on top for a woman with a career outside of the home. Why would a man who loves his wife even want to sit on the couch and watch TV while she is busily going around the house tidying up without any of his help after she’s been working as many hours as he has that day outside of the home? This attitude that I’ve observed in so many marriages is very confusing to me. And, I’ve lived both of those lives – – the woman who has her work cut out for her at home everyday raising children, shopping and planning meals, cleaning and cooking, taking care of everyone’s health etc and the life of the woman who is a busy corporate employee but still has a family to take care of in the evenings and a husband to try to keep happy and a home that she wants to keep clean and tidy so that she can feel some sanity when she lays her head on the pillow at night. I don’t know why this is so difficult for men to understand, but it does seem to be an underlying theme that at least is going on in America today and perhaps much broader than that throughout the world. I’m not trying to sound sexist. Perhaps there are marriages where men are the ones who do the cooking and the cleaning in the evenings while the woman sits and watches TV and perhaps they are the ones that are wanting to have the clean and tidy home so they are the ones cleaning up for hours in the evenings so they can lay their head on the pillow at night and get some rest before it all starts all over again the next day. I just don’t know any homes like that and I can’t say that I ever have. I’m just speaking from what I’ve lived.
his article should be titled, “My wife left me because I’m ADD sometimes.” Or another article could be written, “My husband left me because I never remembered to shut the door when I came into the house” or “My husband left me because I told him to put the dishes in the dishwasher, but then he was always the one to empty the dishwasher anyway.”
Today it’s the glass, tomorrow the toilet paper roll. In 30 years you have 8,345 pet peeves. That tell a woman you respect her. Divorce is sounding pretty good. By your telling it!
OK I rolled My eyes when I read the meme (I am the biggest slob) but then I read the article and He is right He blew it. When I first got married My Wife got a little jealous about My talking to other women. I don’t have a jealous bone in My body and I thought She was crazy but I felt (and still feel) that I had married the finest example of a human being to ever walk the planet. I won’t say I did not resent it but I carefully did not treat Her with disrespect about it and I changed My behavior into one completely contrary to My nature. I have never taken Her for granted. Overtime as We were married longer She came to be absolutely certain about how I felt about Her and how I would behave in any given situation and it became a nonissue. In some of the most important areas of life I have made some very good decisions and have benefited. The writer seems like someone I would get along great with but He blew it. At least He has the capacity to learn and grow, there are plenty of Neanderthals out there that lack that ability.
Wow I’ve been reading the comments and the writer has exposed a nerve So many Men here just don’t get it whoosh right over the head “What the hell was that woosh sound did You hear that? I wonder what the hell that was? Oh well lets see if I can hit the kitchen garbage can from My easy chair with this beer can, denied! Naw don’t worry about it She’ll take care of it. Pass Me another beer!”
These are called pet peeves. Men have them too. We work together on respecting EACH OTHER. And in time must couples get better at it!
I don’t know. I just. Don’t. Know.
Personally, after years and years of dealing with this kind of thing, I personally think it comes down to someone who is broken and has feelings of inadequacy projecting on other people. I don’t think it has anything to do with “love” and “respect” because I don’t think those things mean what people think they do.
I mostly think this way because I _was_ that person. Nowadays, now that I’ve learned to love myself more and realize I’m worthy of being loved and worthy of feeling like I’m “enough,” I don’t need others to behave in certain ways to “show me” respect. I used to think so. “Why won’t my wife make the bed? Why won’t she give me an unwarranted hug? Why won’t she xyz?” I needed her to do that because I was needy. Don’t get me wrong, those things are still nice-to-haves, but I don’t “need” them to feel like she “respects” me, because that whole paradigm is a paradigm of control. I don’t need or want to control people.
Could I be wrong? Perhaps. But maybe I’m right. Ultimately, it just doesn’t matter. All that matters is “now” – not the past, not the future. Now. In the “now,” these issues vanish.
There’s a balance. IME, at the end of the day it’s not especially useful to get most of your validation from other people.* But if you try to talk to your partner about something dead simple and reasonable, and their response is that it’s no big deal, a rational person wouldn’t care and you’re stupid for even bringing it up – well, that says a lot about the partnership, doesn’t it? That’s not just you needing emotional validation, that you’re partner tearing you down.
(My ex did, at times, seem to think that it was his god given right to assert that he had reason on his side, apparently because he was male. This tended to end badly for him – I’m brighter than he, calmer than he, and it would usually turn into me calmly pointing out his logical fallacies until he screamed at me. And then I’d point out that temper tantrums didn’t work that well to convince me of his reason, either. Sometimes this ended in threats, which didn’t impress me either. But I think a lot of women don’t have my resistance to these intimidation tactics.)
I don’t expect someone else to make me happy. But I’m also not going to keep investing time and energy into someone who won’t work with me, and certainly not someone who belittles me. I mean, I’ll try to sit down and talk through these things first (that was, oh, nine years of a ten year marriage. And that after two and a half years of dating and then living together. But I’m stubborn.)
Partnerships take work on both sides. And an awful lot more than just emotional validation.
* But then, I’m pretty self-motivated, so perhaps this is a style thing. The idea of handing that much of my own happiness to someone else just makes me cringe.
I am so happy you wrote this. I sent this to my partner as soon as I read it. I currently am balancing two jobs and freelance gigs on the side. When I wake up on my day off to realize the house is a mess and he couldn’t be bothered to pick up a damn thing, it makes me sad.
What it ultimately says is, my time is more valuable than yours and that you should expect cleaning up after me as your duty as my girlfriend. He knows I spend three hours cleaning every morning I have off. It hurts, and after a while, every little cup by the sink makes you lose hope.
I hope that he gets it after our many conversations. I just wish that you had had the chance to fight for your relationship in this regard.
Reblogged this on BLUE SUN and commented:
This is a wonderfully insightful discussion about what LOVE is all about – doing things for another because you love them; and you know that these things matter to them, give them peace of mind or even bring them a little joy.
Solution- paper and plastic. Then wait for another blog post trying to defend why a marriage is going to shit. Just like the battle for ban on guns. If people were killing others with pencils. Would they be up in arms trying to ban No.2’s ?
You got it! This is exactly how I feel when my husband will let dishes sit there unwashed or a soda can literally inches from the recycle bin. This entire manifesto is exactly why I go nuts when he doesn’t take the garbage out when it’s overflowing and stinky. Thank you. Thank you for validating my feelings and making it known it’s more than just that glass.
I keep seeing this pop up on FB, but I don’t understand what’s going on here.
Never one does he say his wife mention the issue. How is he supposed to know it bothers her? If it’s never said “xyz” is troublesome then how can you fix that?
It’s not about being mothered, it’s about being an adult and addressing your problems head on. You can’t silently be pissed about something and expect anything to change.
You made a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing 🙂
Try to think of it this way: before civil rights, when even middle-class people had “help,” there was a powerful symbol in the maid’s glass and coffee cup, neatly arrayed on a folded towel on the kitchen windowsill. White people didn’t drink from those cups, lest they get “n****r germs.” That’s the unspoken reason why the maid was instructed to place those items thusly. I’m not even married to you, and I am going to come right out and say that ALL of the specific things you listed as showing that you “care about her” relate specifically to making the “woman jobs” — household chores and child care — just a tad easier. It’s 2016, not 1916, my friend, yet so many men still think that “helping with the children” is “nice” to do for your wife “now and then.” These are the same men who say they are “babysitting” their own children while their wife rests or runs errands. No, you’re not “babysitting,” you are PARENTING. People OTHER than parents “babysit.” And the maid’s glass on the windowsill carries a very similar message to that of YOUR glass a few inches from the sink. The WOMAN is now YOUR “n****r help,” no matter what color you are. In addition, YOUR glass is symbolic of an archaic and genderized division of household chores: leaving that glass a mere four inches away from the dishwasher, instead of putting it IN, says, “a man drinks from the glass, but the woman washes it.” It’s a statement, whether you realize it or not; just as leaving the toilet seat up says, “my needs trump yours.” (My own father taught us to put the seat AND the lid down after each use — after all, who wants to look at the bowl? But in our family, both boys and girls learned to cook, mend clothing, AND fix cars. My Dad’s practicality came from being a child of the Depression and from WWII) Now, if you planned to use that glass again, and you left it on your desk at home, or left it in the kitchen and called out, “Hon, I rinsed out my coffee cup and left it by the sink because I’m going to use it again,” she likely would have had no issue. But leaving dirty dishes INCHES from the dishwasher, with the unspoken message of “wash me?” That draws a clear, unspoken line in the sand to mark the boundary of where YOU think “women’s work” begins. Even if you did not do so with intent and deliberation, it is SO deeply ingrained in your psyche that you never even considered the symbolism of “the man’s job ends here,” any more than pre-civil-rights white people considered the demeaning symbol created by the “maid’s cup” on the windowsill.
P.S. — On the outside chance that your wife grew up in a hoarded home? Adult children of hoarders suffer from a particular brand of PTSD, not unlike adult children of alcoholics. If your wife grew up in a hoarded, or even merely “slovenly” household, the mere sight of a stack of old magazines, towels carelessly dropped on the floor, or used dishes only an arm’s reach from the dishwasher looks like what an adult child of a hoarder calls a “hoard seed.” The reaction is fearful, even panicky, and comes from deep in the heart and soul. Add that to what I said above? And, after sensible discussion, you refused to change? And if, no doubt, the dishes were not the only issue? I would have left, too.
Wow. This response is as good as the original article. Well said.
this left me in tears …
I just wash the glass! My husband changes the oil in the car and takes care of the bills. We both cook and respect each other. If he’s worked a long day and leaves a glass by the sink or his shoes in the living room then I gladly clean it up, because I love him and he does the same for me. Thank for your truth.
Its quite easy to see from the plethora of comments who among you are going through this scenario right now, and who has been through it, and perhaps have even come out the other side of things.
What needs to be addressed is not the incident of the glass nor the reasons for the discourse. But, why would either persons believe this is grounds for Divorce. If we look at successful marriages, we will find the same trivial discourse, however we will also find the answers to solving theses problems.
Yes, perhaps the Man in this scenario could change his ways, for the marriage, or perhaps the woman could also. Ask yourself this, why is one way more correct than the other? The real disfunction here as I see it. Is that there is even an accumulation of disdain in the first place. Disdain to the point that it evolves into Divorce for the couple.
The real issue, would appear to me to be a lack of communication between the two, coupled with a mindset that is bent on accumulating baggage to an obsessive point.
Like the gentleman who commented, by pointing out a scenario where the death of a partner would put things into the proper perspective.
A scenario where the wife would be glad to find another glass by the sink if only to have one more moment with her husband again, or where the man would love to hear his wife’s voice yelling from the kitchen just one more time to help him sleep alone in his bed forever one more night. The inability to view the world in a proper perspective is what is going on here, not the lack of love. These people have no time to reflect on this glass and see it in a true way of what it really is…
The world is what we make it, and so is our love.
My partner showed me this and it made me feel so angry . I work hard to provide for us both. Good income. Decent lifestyle and no she doesn’t work. Maybe it’s different for you ladies that do but that is your choice and in anything it is a two way street. If it were the case here I would agree but Yes I leave the glass on the side and sometimes my clothes on the floor but I also work hard so that she doesn’t have to. I have never been told thank you for putting food on the table or avroof over our heads but you complain about a glass? As she does? Tells me I’m not the person she met? Relationships are a two way street ladies. Men love to give, hate to be told what to do yes it’s in our make up. Ask yourself are you being as great full?
What you don’t realize is that a house wife works on average 90 hours a week. There is no end of the work day or weekends off. It is a round the clock job. For you to say your wife doesn’t work is incorrect….she just works for no pay.
I feel confident that your wife works. She likely just does not get paid for it.
Trish, Im most cases when you add up the actual hours worked, the working spouse will put in more work. That is because unless they come straight in and sit on the couch, they also work around the house when not working at their job and a ton of stay at home spouses seem to forget this.
How the HELL can you say his wife works 90 hours a week or that Robert doesn’t know how hard she does or doesn’t work. You have never met either of them. Perhaps what you are saying is true. It’s also possible that she does about 30 hours a week of work around the house while he does 45 in the office, 10 commuting, 8 in the yard or on the house itself, and another 20 cooking and cleaning. And if after a day that started at 5:00am and didn’t end until 9;00pm she complained about the three things he missed rather than the 200 things he actually got done, he is well within his rights to think she is way out of line.
I’ve been a stay at home house-husband and I’ve been a career man and I can tell you that while taking care of the home it isn’t all eating bon-bons on the sofa during soap operas, it’s not that hard either. It’s a free, rewarding lifestyle. I’ve yet to see a stay-at-home mom work 90 hours a week. I have seen many who start early in the morning and end late in the evening, but the moment-to-moment rush and stress of a career just isn’t there.
If a man came home from work to a hot meal on the table and a clean house and kids taken care of and then complained non-stop at his wife because of one little thing she didn’t do, criticized her cooking, and complained about her appearance, we’d both tell him to suck it up and say thank you for what she DID do. Nobody is perfect.
That cuts both ways. If you are a bitch to your husband over something that small, you deserve to lose him just as surely as he would deserve to lose his wife if he did the same thing.
The author is clearly getting paid to tell women what they want to hear rather than the truth: All of us need to appreciate our spouses, male or female.
I’m sorry but housewives do NOT work “on average” 13 hours a day, 7 days a week. If she does, then she is miserably innefficient. Ridiculous hyperbole like this completely destroys the credibility of an argument.
Amen Trish! A woman NEVER retires either!
I’m a housewife, part-time graduate student, and I volunteer in my community. I don’t work 90 hours with all those combined.
If you don’t have kids then you wouldn’t work 90 hours. My guess is she meant – wife AND mother. If you aren’t working that many hours then in my experience as a SAHM of 4 (5, but our oldest passed away) for 21 years something isn’t getting done well.
I work full time as a special Ed teacher which allows me a large portion of my summer to be at home. In no way is being a full time stay at home mom that difficult. Give me a break. I’m not saying it is not important, I hope my girls do choose home and family over a work week. But there is no way staying home is “hard”. I agree with Robert, she can put the dang glass away and smile as she goes online to buy a Michael Kors purse using his credit card! (Hell, I say buy two!)
With that being said, don’t you think this article is really about doing something for your spouse because you love her/him. Who gives a crap about who does the work to earn money. Do you love this person or do you want to win? I am not totally sure, but I’m thinking that is the point of the blog. It sounds like Matt is putting some advice out there that can be used for a man or woman who still wants to make sure the grass stays greener on their side of fence.
Trish – you are right.
Robert Carlos – You initially told someone off for how they didn’t “know” them and then proceeded to make his partner into the devil and him into the best guy ever. So funny…
What, Mark and Robert Carlos – Google what experts says women/men should make a year for the work they do when “just” working at home and how many hours they really work. Well… Here I will do it for you, but I will not put your glass in the dishwasher.
*** What – Here is your comment: “I’m sorry but housewives do NOT work “on average” 13 hours a day, 7 days a week. If she does, then she is miserably innefficient. Ridiculous hyperbole like this completely destroys the credibility of an argument.” OH, PLEASE read the below and know you are so very wrong. SO SO very wrong.
http://www.businessinsider.com/value-of-stay-at-home-moms-2013-5
Here’s How Much It Would Cost To Replace Your Mom
Mandi Woodruff
May 8, 2013
…”Moms (and yes, some dads, too) do double duty as chauffeurs, cooks, psychologists, money managers and more, on average clocking a 94-hour work week, according to Salary.com.
Based on the 10 most time consuming tasks listed by more than 6,000 mothers, Salary.com estimated it would cost $113,586 a year to replace them. That’s a paltry $624 (0.5%) raise since the same study in 2012.
To put that in perspective, a physician earns about $153,000 for 56 hours of work per week.
Salary.com also estimated the value of working mothers’ household duties, finding they deserve an extra $67,436 per year for the 58 hours of work they take on outside of their 9-to-5 jobs. That’s a meager $457 raise (0.07%) over 2012.
But here’s the sad part –– most mothers don’t even give themself that much credit.”
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THIS BLOG is about hearing your spouse… What do I do that may say unintended things to the one I love the most? How can I change that? Is my comfort more important to me than the feelings of my husband? No… And thankfully, he feels the same. Do we still do things that causes the other to grind their teeth – Things that we have shared with each other over and over again that we wish the other one would “GET?” YES! But… we continue to want to get better for each other. We want to meet each other’s needs and NOT make the other feel less than respected and appreciated.
When one can say “my feelings are more reasonable than my spouse’s” they are on a slippery slope. When two play that game the relationship is over.
How hard is it to do the few things that the other explains makes them feel loved and respected?
How hard is it to put dirty socks in the laundry bin that is barely 2 feet from where they landed IF by doing that it says to me, “I so appreciate how hard you work to make our home guest ready at a moment’s notice and appreciate it enough to make the extra scintilla of effort it would take me to get them into the bin.
How hard is it for me to make sure there is more than half a tank of gas in the car during the winter if that makes my husband feel like his hard work to insure I have a nice and safe car to drive is respected and appreciated? It isn’t!!! But I am tired and don’t want to get out of the car right now… It isn’t about me!!! It is about how HE feels when he sees me taking care of what he has worked hard for.
It isn’t about ME. It isn’t about HIM. It is about the OTHER. When this is understood and both are acting that way, marriage is AMAZING.
Men – a side note – the effort to say to her “your feelings matter MORE” is SEXY and will do a LOT to draw her to you. My husband gets a LOT of mileage from doing “small, stupid, petty” stuff because each small and stupid and petty thing he does says over and over in a very LOUD voice, “I love you more.” SEXY!
You say she doesn’t work. Do you have children? Does she take care of the house? The bills? Anything else that you would have to do if you were single? Does she take care of the kids?
I took 4 months off from my full time job to take care of our newborn. WOW was it a lot of work. It was exhausting. And I couldn’t even keep up the housework….even though my husband was busting his ass all day long, and I “didn’t work.” Just because she isn’t working for pay doesn’t mean she isn’t working.
We don’t want to tell our husbands what to do. That’s exactly what this article is about! We don’t want to TELL you what to do – we want you to just DO it! Is there a glass on the counter? Clothes on the floor? Pick them up! It isn’t your partner’s responsibility to always do that. It is a partnership, that’s the point.
My husband and I both work full time – I put in probably a 50 hour week, he puts in more than that. We’ve been together for so long, at this point we have a rule – either do it, or outsource it. If there is something that needs to be done – housework, yardwork, whatever – and neither one of you wants to do it, or has time to do it, outsource the thing and save your marriage. Helps a lot!
Yeah. You don’t want to tell your husband what to do. You just want him to look for himself, see what needs to be done, and do it.
But if he does things a little differently than you would have done it, prioritizes things differently, has different ideas about how things should be than you do, then do you accept his decisions as being good ones, or do you criticize every effort he makes?
I don’t know you, your husband, your life, or your situation. But I do know what the author of the article says happened in his life. Leaving a glass that you intend to use again soon by the sink is a perfectly rational way of managing a kitchen. It saves either he or his wife the effort of emptying the dishwasher and putting the glass away just to have it taken right out again.
It’s not that he wasn’t looking around and figuring out for himself what needed to be done. It was that he came to a slightly different reasonable conclusion than she did.
He didn’t become angry at her for doing things differently than he would have. It was just her.
Further, he wasn’t leaving glasses and other dishes all over the house, setting them down when he was done expecting her to pick up after him. Had he done that I would have no sympathy for him. He left out a single glass so he could use it again and she couldn’t STAND to let him evaluate for himself if that was a good idea or not.
Frankly, I think he was lucky to get away from her.
you think just because you’re the breadwinner she isn’t allowed to be a human being with feelings or needs just because she doesn’t earn a wage like you. Tell me this sir does she pick up after you, wash your clothes, your dishes, your children. Does she cook for you, clean for you, look after you and does what she can to make your life happy? do you ever thank her? maybe she put her working life on hold to raise your kids or because you’re the kind of man who prides himself on being the breadwinner and doesn’t want the little lady to work so he looks like he can’t provide completely for his family. Has it ever occurred to you that she gave up everything to be your life partner and work alongside you to create a life but you have your head so far up your ass you can’t see the gift you actually have. You sir are rude, disrespectful and obviously ungrateful for the woman in your life! I bet when you were dating you picked up after yourself and didn’t treat her like your personal built in maid cause that’s what you’re paying for right?!
Robert didn’t say she isn’t allowed to have feelings or needs. Quite the contrary. He said that after a long, long day of working his ass off to provide for her, he didn’t want to come home to a steady stream of bitching. Sure, we all miss things from time to time, but no decent spouse feels the need to complain about every tiny shortcoming real or perceived. That’s just being a shitty human being.
I’m going to bet that of the effort she puts in during the day, less than 5 minutes involve picking up stuff he left laying around. Should a man throw his shirt in the laundry and pick up his glass? Yes. Is his wife somehow being treated like a personal slave if he forgets once in a while? No. Not at all. Does it sound like he is bitching at her if she forgets something around the house once in a while? Not to me. Does he complain if the chicken came out a little dry because she was busy folding laundry while she cooks? If so, HE’s the jerk, but it doesn’t sound like it. All I see there is HER being angry at him whenever he misses the slightest detail.
Does he thank her for putting a meal on the table? We can’t know. Perhaps he does, perhaps he doesn’t. For all you know he thanks her every night, does the dishes much of the time, makes sure she doesn’t have to do the more difficult physical chores very often, and brings her flowers regularly.
You are projecting a LOT of nonsense where you have no information at all. It could be he’s a constant jerk to her. It could be he treats her like a queen.
You missed the entire meaning of this article. Completely and totally. You probably read the title, got pissed, and then only skimmed the rest and blew it off. I urge you, for your marriage’s sake, to read it. Really read it.
I am also a stay-at-home wife and mother and my husband works outside the home. The thing that really struck me about your comment is that you said “you work hard, so that she doesn’t have to.” That is where you are so wrong. You think that because she doesn’t earn a paycheck that she doesn’t work. But she does. She works just as hard, if not harder, than you do. She contributes equally to your household. And her work is never finished. There is ALWAYS laundry to be done, always a toilet that needs to be scrubbed, always a mess that she probably did not make herself to be cleaned up. You get to leave work and feel done for the day. She never has a feeling of done. She probably feels guilty for sitting down exhausted at 10 pm to watch tv, because even though she has been going nonstop all day long, there is still SOMETHING she needs to get done.
So then you come home, don’t even notice the sparkling clean kitchen that she has worked hard on, and you dirty it up. Like the author said, it’s not about the dirty glass. It’s that when you leave it there, it feels like to her that you’re saying “the things that work tirelessly doing day in and day out are not important. Your role in our family is not valuble.” And she feels disrespected and unappreciated. Have you ever told HER thank you? Ask yourself, are YOU being grateful for everything she does for you and your family?
Again, please take the time to really read this and think about it.
You just said everything I wanted to better than I would have.High five for being rad!
If you have children, is her staying home not saving you massive amounts of money on childcare? Did you discuss and decide together that she would stay home? Do you think your children have a better or worse childhood by having their mother available for them? Do you not believe that keeping a household clean and functioning is hardwork? With your comment you’re showing how little value her contribution.
That’s not at all what he said, Ashley. At no point does he belittle the effort SHE makes. And yes, especially with children, a housewife’s job is important and valuable.
What he DID say was that his work is ALSO valuable and important and that his hard work enables her to be the stay-at-home housewife that is so important. He didn’t want to criticize her work. He simply didn’t want her to constantly criticize HIS contributions.
He said that he has NEVER been thanked for his contributions. SHE is showing how little she values HIS contributions. Does he thank her? We don’t know. He certainly should. Does he help her? We don’t know, but he certainly should.
We DO know that, at least in his view, she doesn’t appreciate what he does while expecting him to be perfect in his appreciation of her.
Is this the whole story? Probably not. But a wife who complains about petty things daily without thanking her husband for his long day at work is as bad as a husband who constantly criticizes his wife.
The fact that your wife showed you the article should tell you she is feeling something. From your response there is a good chance someday you could be in the guy that wrote the article’s place- just more confused than him.
It could equally be that SHE is confused, that she somehow believes that anything less than perfection out of her husband is a license to become a termagant and a nag, that she is an entitled princess who doesn’t appreciate anything her husband does and THAT’s why she is feeling something.
There is also a good chance that someday she will be gone and rather than being confused he might suddenly realize he’s happy and peaceful for the first time in years.
As the song says, “Thank God and Greyhound she’s gone.”
It could go either way. I’ve seen both.
I have worked while my husband stays home ans I have stayed home while my husband worked. When I he was working, I took care of kids, made sure bills were paid, exercised, cleaned and cooked three meals a day. I had zero appreciation and I was exhausted. I was told I dis barely enough to get by. When he walked through the door I was ignored. He got sex almost every day regardless. He was an alcoholic. Now he’s home. He lays on the couch all day. I come home and do the same things I did when he was working and Im still ignored, not appreciated. Im feel dead and ready to walk away. Maybe your story is different, but both people need to appreciate each other. If you’re coming home and acting like she doesnt exsist, you dont give affection outside of the realm or sex, you’re glued to thr tv or phone for an unreasonable anount of time, making her job even more difficult, or you act like a stay-at-home job is easy as pie, there’s your problem.
That’s great, you work, bravo. If you would open your eyes you would realize she works also. Keeping a house clean and doing laundry also requires time and energy. It’s not about the glass, it’s that instead of you taking the time (4 seconds) to place it into the sink your making her life harder because she will inevitably have to do it. It’s the same as you leaving that used, wet, towel on the floor or instead of putting your pants in the hamper you throw them across the room. She cleaned all day, to make your house a nice place to come home to and them you just blatantly disrespect her by adding onto her list. What if someone you work with did this to you? Instead of putting the paper work for the day away they left it for you to file? It might not annoy you the first time but by the 100th you’re going to bitch and throw a tiff. My husband use to think and act the same way, until I went to work full-time and left him home with the kids. He didn’t realize how much I actually did in a day. As a spouse that stays home you not only clean everything and do laundry but you are responsible for all the cleaning stuff to do so (detergents, cleaning sprays, etc..) Buying and keeping tabs on groceries, making breakfast/lunch/dinner and serving it. Making the doctors appointments for the kids and running the there and god forbid you have to run them to after school activities. Appointments for the car (oil changes, inspections, etc) Keeping tabs on when bills are due and paying them on time. I could go on and on. Basically he was begging me to quit my job after 3 months because he couldn’t handle it anymore and because he never had a day off. Now he picks up after himself and helps when he can because he knows that it makes my life a little bit less hectic. I also bitch and nag less, which he is extremely happy about. You’re right, marriage is a two way street, how backed up is your wife’s side?
I think it’s a two-way street.
A wife who loves her husband will try not to care about the glass by the sink. A husband who loves his wife will try to remember to put the glass in the dishwasher.
One piece of advice I was given was it may annoy you that your husband leaves his shirt on the floor but is it worth losing your marriage over? Generally not. Turn picking it up into an act of love. Similarly, though, he can try putting it in the hamper to be an act of love.
When people treat a marriage like a battle-ground, that’s when it leads to divorce. When people approach marriage with love, mutual respect, and both trying their best, that’s when a marriage builds up well.
I have a super easy solution for your unhappy wife:
Let your wife get a job. So that she is working. You know, the thing that she leaves the house for so that she brings back paychecks.
You hire whoever you need to cover all the chores that need done in your wife’s absence. A maid, a chef, a nanny… whoever you need!
I assure you, in less than a week, your wife will tell you that she much prefers going to work every day and not have to take care of any house chores.
And you would have replaced a free live-in on-call laborer (pretty sure that’s what a slave is…) with an entourage of people who you have to pay. I think this will work out well for you. After all, slavery has been abolished since… I don’t know, forever ago.
Yeah, MAYBE that’s what will happen. Maybe she will realize she has to be showered and dressed in business clothes by 6:00am EVERY day, no matter what for 9 hours, drive for an hour in traffic, sit at the same desk all day staring at a computer and focusing the whole time, fight an hour of traffic back home, then return to someone complaining bitterly for 45 minutes that at 5:30 that morning she had forgotten one little thing. She might instead prefer to return to a situation where there was no traffic most of the time, where she could manage her own schedule most of the time, and where she could wear what she wants, work how she wants, take her breaks when she wants, and the cost is that when her husband comes home frazzled at the end of the day a little tolerance is in order.
I’ve done both and frankly while staying home caring for a house and a couple kids is certainly a lot of work and sometimes can be trying, it’s NOTHING like working at an 8-5 professional job as far as stress goes.
For all the effort, being in your own home with your children is a joy far greater than any job could ever be.
Robert, the reason it made you angry is because it hit home. She’s trying to help you see something. Pay attention before it’s too late! It doesn’t matter how you feel, it matters how you act. And it’s the things you are doing or not doing each day that let her know that you care about and respect her. (your good income and hard work won’t bring that for you brother, it’s all about your actions) She needs to know that her daily work is just as important as your daily work. That you care enough about her to think that she has worth because of what she does and because it’s important to her that you just pick up after yourself a little. If she’s telling you that you are not the person she met, what are you going to DO to change that? Sounds like you need to court your wife. And it doesn’t have to cost you a thing. Just give her your heart again. Like you did when you were getting her to fall in love with you. Yeah…like THAT. Good luck!
Exactly, Bunny. His feelings don’t matter at ALL. Not compared to the delicate and so important feelings of a WOMAN! You should suck up anything she dumps on you because she is such a delicate TREASURE! Never mind that she never thanks you and bitches at you for a half hour or more every single day about trivial shit. You should be HAPPY you can listen to that. I know he appreciates her and thanks her for all she does, but there is NO REASON he should expect reciprocity. He’s just a man and we all know men are insensitive beasts with no feelings. It’s all about HER!
Give her your heart again even though it’s all one way. Let her bitch at you, then give it again and again and again! If you expect her to do so in return, that just emphasizes how horrible a monster you are. Men!
Robert, apparently you didn’t comprehend the story at all.
You clearly missed the point. It’s not about the glass or the clothes. You have much to learn my young padawan!
@robert – unfortunately, I think you missed the whole point of his article. Your wife likely showed it to you because the author was able to articulate how she feels and she was hoping you would actually see her.
Why the fuck should he “actually see her?” Clearly, she has no appreciation of him at all. As he said, she has NEVER thanked him for getting up every single morning and working his ass off all day. Instead she complains bitterly if he makes the slightest error.
So, yes, she “feels” unappreciated if she has to pick up a shirt off the floor. She “feels” neglected if he makes a slight mistake. But clearly she doesn’t give a rat’s ass how he “feels” when he comes home from a hard long day of work to petty complaining.
But he’s just a man, right? Who gives a fuck how MEN feel? No WONDER so many women end up alone once their looks start to fade and the kids are gone. It’s a miracle so many men put up with us for so long.
I watch my girlfriends do this to their husbands and I can see the ones who are just waiting for the day they can walk out the door and never return.
I see some poor husbands too, but frankly I’m ashamed at how many women are truly awful to their husbands and then resentful when they don’t appreciate their delicate princesses. They feel BETRAYED when a man finally has had enough of their horrible behavior.
Buddy you are STUPID!! Plain and simple STUPID!!!!! You will lose her if you do not change your perspective. My mother took none of that crap, when my father decided to go out drinking with his buddies and they brought him home drunk, my mom told them to take him back home to his mother because obviously he was not grown-up enough and needed his mommy because she was not his mommy. After his mom set him straight and sent him back to his wife he never did that again! When he didnot pick up his underwear and left it beside the bed she would throw them in the garbage and when he kept buying new she then picked them up and put them under his pillow. The moral of the story is she was not his MOMMY (not that his mother ever tolerated that kind of BEHAVIOUR) and he was a growen Man and he better start acting like it. They were married almost 60 years when she passed and they raised 5 kids and both worked and were partners not master and slave. my father cried when she passed and told me your mother saved me from being a stupid ass and she did this because she loved me. She was my best friend, my lover and the mother of my children and she is why I am the man I am today. He was right she loved him so much but he loved her enough to change his ways and become a real MAN who was a Great Husband and Father! So it’s your choice you can be a narcissistic a$$ or a very much loved Man!
Frankly, Robert’s probably putting up with her bitchy ass only for his children and if she walked out today he would have a life of peace and contentment. He’s NOT leaving all the housework for her. He’s saying she bitches at him for every single thing he misses. Frankly, she sounds awful. NOBODY, man or woman, should be treated like that.
The point to this article is less about whether your wife has a right to feel the way she does, rather more about her leaving as a result of your attitude. If she remains your wife, it will be because of something other than being happy…and, it’s assumed you are okay with that.
I hear ya!
This blog is full of rubbish! If this woman stressed over something so trivial and divorced him because of it, then she must have had many more issues and baggage!! Life is just way too short to stress over crap like this! Specially when there are far more pressing matters in everyone’s lives! I think he is far better off now that he can do as he pleases without anyone nagging at him!
The woman sounds like an overly-entitled spoiled child raised on rom-coms incapable of understanding that two equal people live in the house and that she can’t expect her husband to subjugate every aspect of his own personality to her own absurd standards.
Leaving a glass out when you might want to use it again is a perfectly reasonable thing. If her husband is expected to behave like a guest in his own house to the point where he can’t do this simple, reasonable, practical thing because it might upset her delicate sensibilities, then he is far, far better off without her.
I am going to guess that she will either bounce from one failed relationship to the next, constantly driving good men away or she will find someone so weak that he tolerates this nonsense simply to avoid being alone. Either way she will never have a happy relationship.
Frankly I’m glad I never have to live with her. The author, is obviously pandering to his audience. If he REALLY thinks his life would be better living with this narcissistic and selfish bitch, he’s a sad, sad specimen.
It’s obvious that women lap this stuff up because it validates their own bad behavior. If he makes a living selling this crap to women, then God bless him, but it’s stupid nonsense.
If a woman ever tried to use this to convince me that I had to live like this it would be the last time we ever spoke.
However, in my experience, if a man looks her straight in the eye and explains why she is wrong and just says that he is not going to play this stupid game, most women are actually happier.
I don’t think women are truly happy being angry, unhappy bitches all the time and that often they just need a bit of motivation to change their own poisonous attitudes to something happier and more productive.
Before we hear a bunch of crap about men abusing women, that’s not at all what I’m advocating. Men have as much obligation to be kind to their women, to accept them, flaws and all, for what they are, to allow them their own personalities, and to express appreciation for hard work.
I sometimes see men who are hypercritical of their wives, and that is even sadder and more pathetic than when women do it. I see FAR more of it in women in our current society than I do in men.
But what she is telling you, Is that she relates to this article, and if it makes you feel angry, then explain that to her. A total sharing opportunity here, you get to tell her that you also feel under appreciated and that for you, not being nagged about the “dish by the sink” is her show of “care”. And you could also realize that she is feeling somewhat under respected by your words and actions too.
Live and let live. How can you expect someone to uphold himself to your same standards (in regards to your wife)? People care about different things. These women need to accept that or prepare to lose great men.
Exactly. She sounds hypercritical of innocuous things. This is as absurd as a man ranting at his wife day after day for the way she parks her car in the garage. I’d have no respect for such a man and I frankly have no respect for THIS woman.
Can I ask one question….Does she not work because instead she is home caring for your children?
Before Robert married he worked,did his own laundry, cooked, cleaned all for himself and worked. His wife did the same thing. Now he just works and she just maintains the house. Fair trade if there ever was one.
So in essence Robert what you are saying is… Because she doesn’t work outside of the home she should not just care for your home, but actually pick up after you as though you are a child.???
That’s the point of this post.
I am a stay at home mom, running a business out of our home. I am super busy.
I don’t complain or mind one bit running all the errands, paying the bills, keeping up the housework, keeping up with our child, and doing the volunteer PTA mom thing, etc….
However, at the end of the day when I am tired from doing my “non work” and running around dealing with our lives, there’s no one to put my dishes away or pick my crap up off the floor.
So should she leave it there on the floor and just let it pile up? Oh no because then she wouldn’t be doing her what?? OH HER JOB!
So come on dude… If all she wants if for you to clean up your own messes, that’s not really asking very much.
Horse. Shit. That is NOT what he said. If once in a while he misses something, she shouldn’t turn into a hateful nag.
What would you think of a man who daily criticized the way his wife parked her car in the garage when she had a lifelong habit of parking toward the front of the garage and he decided that the only rational solution was to park as far back as possible? You’d call him a controlling asshole and you would be right. IS IT HIS JOB TO HAVE TO GO RE-PARK HER CAR EVERY NIGHT? CAN’T SHE DO IT HERSELF? DOES SHE THINK IT’S HIS JOB?!?
He did NOT say he wanted her to do all his picking up for him. He said he wanted her to stop bitching at him when he occasionally missed something. He said he’d like it if she once in a while demonstrated some appreciation for all he did rather than constant nagging for the few things he failed to do.
Frankly you sound like a bitter, selfish bit..of something.
Yeah, we are all tired at the end of the day. We all miss some things – especially things that aren’t so important to US. But Robert, and apparently your husband, have to listen to 45 minutes of biter, angry nagging while being exhausted.
Maybe you’ll do better with your next husband who will probably not be as good as this one, statically. And if he bothers with another wife, she will probably be younger than you, prettier than you, and will treat him with a little more kindness.
For Carlos Ricardo. I actually have a beautiful marriage in fact. And do not nag my husband. This was my comment to the blog post.
This is an amazing post! In fact… Just the other night I walked in to the kitchen to find my husbands plate and drink sitting on the counter and I said to him “So, the sink was just too far huh?” He chuckled and replied “Yep, it would’ve been a strain”
And you ARE SO RIGHT. It makes me feel disrespected.
I feel like he’s saying… “Oh the bitch that lives here and takes care of everything will deal with that for me”
Now if and I have … told him this. He gasps and says, “I would NEVER think that.”
But I submit that in a way he does. He knows I will pick it up, clean it up, etc. Same with the shorts NEXT to the hamper instead of in the hamper, and the shirt on the hangers instead of hung back up. He knows I will deal with it, like his mother did for him and still does for his Dad.
But here’s the deal… For me, and I only speak for me. I know how hard my husband works every single day. Then comes home and works more in they yard, or on the house. And if this is the worse thing I have to deal with, then I am blessed woman.
Sometimes… me loving him, would be just putting the dish in the sink, or picking the shorts up, without giving him grief. Because I just love him. Flaws and all.
And we’ve been married almost 10 years. I took a vow, and no cup, or shorts or t-shirt on a hanger will dissolve this marriage.
My comments to Robert were simply, that he seems to be stuck in EXACTLY what Matt is pointing out! Not acknowledging that she has feelings and his comments regarding “her not working” are demeaning.
It’s a lot of work to be a stay at home, and often you sacrifice a lot.
I am probably the furthest thing from the names you called me.
This is an age old argument. Who does the most? You know what, both spouses should work hard. When the children are young the primary care taker probably does more. Later on, perhaps the other spouse works more, It is team work and keeping track of who works more or harder is pointless. Keeping a home and yard maintained while working away from home and raising children is an enormous amount of work. Divide the chores and do things to make each other feel loved, appreciated and cared about. If you have your health and an income, you are halfway there. If there is something you do or do not do that your spouse tells you is important to her/him, respect their feelings. Also, before marrying someone get to know what their priorities are. If living in an immaculate, perfectly organized, always on time environment is a top priority for them and it is of no importance to you, rethink your plans.
My husband works hard so I don’t have to OUTSIDE of our home. Ask anyone – it’s harder to do what we do well than holding any job outside the home. I know several, make that many, women who went back to work because it was easier than being at home. You most definitely missed the point of the article. It isn’t about you working hard. It is about knowing you are doing something that hurts your partner… Whether it’s the dirty glass by the sink, leaving dirty plates in the family room, a towel on the bathroom floor or not reading a bedtime story occasionally to a child. My husband complained like you at one point and actually asked me what I did all day. Then, he got to stay home for three days alone with our children while I went to my grandmother’s funeral. He apologized as soon as I got home and said he would never ask me that question again. It was the hardest thing he ever did. He does work very hard outside the home to support us and give us the best he can. We do knowledge that a lot. But it doesn’t mean he gets to place his hard work and sacrifice above the ones I make to insure our children are raised well, fed, go to school in clean clothes, get their homework finished, get to come home to a clean home after school, have friends over, get to all of their games and practices, etc. etc. etc. If doing those things shows my husband I appreciate his hard work then coming home and appreciating my hard work while in our home and my “office” and keeping his area clean isn’t too much to ask. It’s actually a huge show of respect to me and how hard I work for him. If I walked into his office and left my water bottle on his desk, my jacket on his table, my shoes in the middle of his office floor, what would that say to him? It would say I’m not respecting the space he uses to work. It’s the exact same thing. You totally missed the whole point of the article. It’s about showing mutual respect. It’s about saying I understand how hard you work. It says I understand by my doing this or doing that I’m telling you that I really don’t u sweat and nor do I care. For many years it bothered my husband that I didn’t keep enough gas in the car when it got cold outside. He didn’t think I respected the vehicle he provided for me. It wasn’t too hard for me to make sure that I kept it filled to the level he felt comfortable with was it? It wasn’t too hard or too much to ask of me to get it filled a little more often to make him feel respected. That is the point of this article. If you can’t get that you may find yourself in the same position as this gentleman.
I think you have both hit the nail on the head and missed the point.
The writer and you are a total idiot. The glass has to get into the dishwasher some how. You marry us, you work, we do everything else. You think we are here to do your bidding. It’s total sexism. Do you ever say thank you for anything she does?? You are arrogant. We work 24/7 harder than you ever will. Even harder with kids. So stick it! It’s you who is ungrateful.
You think I’m a “total idiot”!?!?
I demonstrated no competence whatsoever? Freaking ouch, yo.
Why do you think so many women return to work before their mat leaves end (oops no mat leaves for Americans, sorry…)?
You really can’t try to explain joy, happiness and beauty to a stubborn old jackass and expect him to turn into a unicorn.
Lol. you just proved the bloggers point, Robert. You don’t get it.
Also saying your wife doesn’t work is so chauvinistic it’s not funny.Don’t be surprised if she exits one day leaving you confused as to why.
wow, Robert..I have been reading the responses. I am sorry for you. Look at the way these people are disrespecting your wife now. Good job.
Wow. You just summed up what I’ve been trying to tell my husband for the past 20 years of our 30+ years marriage. I thought I was being petty and stupid because how else do you explain someone completely ignoring your simple requests for all those years? It must be me right? I mean, I know he cares. He wouldn’t knowingly hurt me like this. Oh yeah, except that I told him several times how much it hurt and it still didn’t make a difference. I was in a public place when I started reading this. ALL the noise around me faded out while I read this and I almost started crying. I still can’t believe I’m not crazy and there are others out there who get this. Thank you so much for writing this.
You are being petty. Just because you are a woman does not mean you need to constantly be on a power trip trying to prove a man wrong. When I am ask my wife to change the oil in the family car do I bitch and complain like a women when she says no. Of course I don’t because that would be ridiculous.
What are you going to start wining about next, women are paid less then guys? They are paid less because they work less on average.
“Woman are paid less because they work less on average”… thats not true! I work at the exact same place as my husband, doing the exact same job, I am older have 7 years more experience and 2 degrees. He makes 40 % more than me, in fact all the men do, simply because I’m a woman. This is true of 8 of my friends who also work with their spouses.. Men open your eyes. Woman are often treated unfairly in the workplace, and we work just as hard.
“When I am ask my wife to change the oil in the family car do I bitch and complain like a women when she says no. Of course I don’t because that would be ridiculous.” AMEN to that!
You WERE being petty and stupid. Are there things he’d like you to do differently? I’m gonna guess that after “30+ years” you STILL do things that annoy him. But you don’t give a rat’s ASS about that. You are just concerned that HE isn’t perfect and this STUPID article makes you feel VALIDATED for resenting his imperfection while expecting him to accept YOUR imperfections.
Cry in your damned coffee shop all you want if that’s cathartic for you, but if you think this is real and truthful, you are an idiot who doesn’t deserve your husband.
Mean shit, Karen! It’s not THAT stupid. You should read my old crappy posts that 2.5 million people didn’t read. Those REALLY suck.
I do believe that you frequently and continuously assume things in your various comments. It is quite interesting how you continue to reply on multiple comments trying to explain why someone is a ‘bitch’, ‘stupid’ and ‘petty’. You act as though you really have something you’re trying (and failing) to prove. Perhaps you are the immature one who is too stubborn and selfish to change in an unhappy relationship. I could see it, though. Sounds as though you are a far bigger bitch than any of these women expressing understandable frustration. Good day to you
I love you Karen.
Karen – who made you so angry? You are assuming much about each person you are berating. You know ZERO about these people and yet you are yelling at them. I think you are projecting all of your nasty relationship failures on everyone else here and are a resentful bitter person!
(Of course, I don’t know any of that about you. I am just trying to make a point. It is horrible of me to say that to you or to anyone else! Throwing out something mean and without real knowledge isn’t kind nor does it further an interesting conversation. You might have good points to make, but the are lost in your language and SEVERE anger.)
you a sad bitter woman. I am willing to bet you are single. If not I am wiling to bet your man wishes he was. Do you eat with that mouth?
This is a great post, and the comments are super interesting! I think there will always be “the glass by the sink”; there will always be something we do that makes our partner crazy. It is how we work together through it that matters. Sometimes the person just needs to put their glass in the dishwasher. Sometimes the wife needs to find a way to accept the way her husband is. There is no one answer; it depends on the relationship. My mom was saying to me just yesterday (interestingly enough) that my dad cannot seem to get his clothes in the basket. She said if she had made an issue of it they would not be married today. She learned to let that go. Now that isn’t to say there aren’t other things, but my dad has learned to change some of them.
I think the bottom line is it is about respect and communication, give and take. One person cannot have everything their way.
Great article. Greatee information for husbands to know. Now please do one from a man’s perspective. Perhaps what a man hears when a woman speaks. How men feel belittled and unappreciated when nothing is ever good enough. My wife and I have often had problems when I try and do something good for her to show her that I appreciate her and it’s met with nagging and pointing out flaws
I believe this is exactly what you are looking for:
http://brando.tickld.com/x/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time
Yes. If either party thinks constantly complaining or nagging is appropriate, it’s not going to work. It’s AMAZING how much changes when you greet your husband (or wife) at the door with a smile and a thank you. Or even just a smile.
Ladies who have a meal for their husbands, let me ask you this: What’s the difference in YOUR attitude toward your husband between:
“Thank you, honey, this is delicious.” and
“You KNOW I don’t like string beans. How many times do I have to tell you I can’t stand string beans? You ALWAYS make them and it drives me CRAZY! And I SWEAR you always burn something. It’s like you don’t even LOVE me.”
Let she among you who never does anything that annoys your husband cast the first bitch.
well why the fuck would you cook the fucking string beans if I told you 500 fucking times that I HATE THEM!?!?!?!
Valentia – LOL!!!
(See… If she keeps cooking something he hates then she IS saying I DON’T CARE what YOU like/I don’t respect you enough to prepare something he DOES like. Get it???) ;D
Karen – You have a good point in how we treat each other is so very helpful… Greeting each other with a smile and appreciation is the best start!
Knowing what I do that unintentionally tells my husband I don’t appreciate him (like making green beans instead of asparagus over and over again knowing he hates green beans) and then changing my behavior to make something else tells him is worthy of my effort.
If my husband knows that dropping his clothes on the side of the bed says to me every single time he does it “I don’t care that you don’t – I like it I want to do it and so I won’t change” and doesn’t change, says to me I think less of you than myself. That is hurtful and over time causes resentment.
Thankfully, he doesn’t want to hurt me that way, but some spouses really think they are entitled to do as they like regardless of how it makes their spouse feel. That is what this author was saying HE did. There are other women/men out there dealing with the same type of spouse.
If you aren’t like that and don’t understand this dynamic than that is so great! Very happy for you. It can be a real issue for some.
The blog is a nice thought. I think it is still a bit demeaning to women without intention-sort of like, “women are fragile and need more understanding.” Did you ever ask your wife why it bothered her? Listening without assumption increases understanding. The first thought that came to my mind was that she doesn’t want to be the person always responsible for dishes-yes, respect. Second, for me personally, when I’ve cleaned the kitchen, it’s clean and organized. I feel centered to do other things and there isn’t always an endless parade of dishes. In addition, the organization helps me focus the next time I’m preparing a meal. The respect goes one step further, taking responsibility with understanding.
Yes. Divorce. Always the best solution for a non-perfect marriage.
Housework is housework – inside and outside and should be shared equitably. Maid service is something else entirely and that’s where the lack of respect comes in. I’m not the maid – the maid cleans up someone’s personal mess on a regular basis. If I’ve expressed that I’m not the maid and it continues, then the lack of respect is more pervasive and is probably shown in a thousand different ways that will eat away until only resentment left. He’s asked me to adjust things because they’re important to him and I have – solely because they’re important to him. I’m not sure why what seems important to me doesn’t get that same consideration but I do know that nobody should be anybody’s maid.
Boy does that hit home. My boyfriend dribbles pee on the floor in front of the toilet. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve stepped in his dribbles. We’ve had some knock down drag out fights about him not cleaning it up. He just says, “hey, it’s what men do.” How do you think I feel knowing he doesn’t give a shit that I’m stepping his his pee?
You’re reading his actions all wrong!
It’s his not so subtle way of saying, “Please please please wake me up every morning my peeing on my face. I would super love that!”
You should have stuck with the dirty dishes in the sink. A single glass by the sink is not a problem. I do it. My wife does it. My children will do it. A person should drink 6 glasses of water per day. Both of us would be much more upset about the wastefullness of putting 12 glasses per day in the dishwasher between the 2 of us. Yes, putting dirty plates in the sink and leaving them there is disrespectful. Being upset about a single glass is neurotic and that pettiness undermines relationships. Neither party should bring that kind of childish behavior into the relationship.
Men, its simple. Take out the trash, put you laundry in the bin, run the laundry if the bin is full, vacuum the floors or some other help in the cleaning, put your dishes in the washer and run it when full, change some diapers, etc
Women, before complaining about the housework, if you dont have a lawn care company but you do have landscaping, men have pretty much done their fair share of the housework at taking out the trash, doing dishes and putting their wash away. If you dont agree, try trading places.
Lastly, jobs go kind of like this…
Raising kids – full time job
Taking care of a newborn – fulltime job with 20 hours of overtime
House work for a couple – part time job
Housework for a family – full time job
Yard work with landscaping – part time job.
So men, if your stay at home wife has 2 children to raise and a house to maintain, and you work a 40 hour job with a lawn care company, youre not carrying your share of the weight and youre holding income over her head, no matter how much money you make.
And women, if hes working 2 jobs putting in 80 jours a week, give him a break when he gets home.
Teamwork, and leave the petty nonsense out of it.
Oh, and one last thing. Hold her hand and buy her flowers, and not because you did something you need to make up for. It goes miles.
Yes. All of this. It goes both ways and sometimes you just need to hire someone outside your marriage/partnership to do stuff so neither of you have to worry about it.
Great article. Greatee information for husbands to know. Now please do one from a man’s perspective. Perhaps what a man hears when a woman speaks. How men feel belittled and unappreciated when nothing is ever good enough. My wife and I have often had problems when I try and do something good for her to show her that I appreciate her and it’s met with nagging and pointing out flaws
I think by fixating on the glass you are all missing the point. A partner who does not care about basic considerateness, who wants to argue about why the other’s desires and cares are petty, is not going to stop at leaving the dish by the sink or leaving the clothes on the floor. Not caring about treating your partner with at least the respect and kindness you would extend to a houseguest, a casual acquaintance, your second-cousin-once-removed, becomes a habit. Demeaning your partner becomes your default mode. And once that happens, you are capable of ever more serious degradations and slights. Nip it in the bud. Wake up every morning and decide anew that today, you want nothing more than to remain with the person lying beside you.
This is dumb and common sense.
And thats why after 34 yrs. I ‘m living single.
Hokey doodles, what a fantastic article.
Dear Sadsack,
My wife drives me crazy. She never “gets around” to putting her clean laundry away. She is a stay at home mom and many times I do the laundry and fold it. It rarly gets put away. It’s always on the desk; on the desk chair; or in the bed when she needs to use the desk.
Do you know when I am going to leave her?
NEVER! NEVER! NEVER!
Why? Because I love the crazy woman and even though she drives me completely bat shit crazy I made a lifetime commitment. I put up with her crap and she puts up with mine.
So stop kicking yourself and next time marry an adult. Be glad. Your ex will move on to make some other guy hate himself.
My buddy just went though this same thing. Wife was never happy. Everything was never good enough. She wanted a divorce.
He just married a wonderful woman and they make each other very happy. You know what his ex is doing?
Who gives a shit….. He moved on.
Sincerely, married man who’s is an adult.
Amen Dennis!!!!!!
And this is why after 34yrs. I’m living single.
Holy sh*t it’s like you looked into my MI d and wrote an article about why my first husband and I got divorced. Right down to the “invisible glass”. This was exactly the problem. I was sick of being his mom and not his respected partner. I almost want to send this article to him!
By “Partner” you mean “Person who does what YOU want him to do all the time.” I bet he’s happy now you are gone.
Here’s a thought, though. What if you DO do this? You do, on your own initiative, clean up? I’m talking vacuuming, mopping, dishes and scrubbing floors. The whole nine yards.
And then, you get told you’re lazy and a slob. How the bloody hell do you NOT get pissed at her?
I never asked anyone to not get pissed at anyone else. Have boundaries. Enforce them.
If you’re being 100-percent honest, you’re getting totally screwed and I have little tolerance for unfairness and hypocrisy.
All I’m trying to do is help a certain segment of oblivious (accidentally; not intentionally negligent) husbands make the connection between “little things” that cause fights and his wife really getting upset even though he can’t figure out why.
I think the ability to understand WHY our wives or girlfriends hurt over things we deem irrational is perhaps the biggest key to overcoming the stupid-high divorce rate.
I like talking about it because I think good marriages do more for making the world better than most people give it credit for.
The ripple effects are vast. It’s a worthwhile conversation and I’m glad people are having it.
You have an excellent handle on what women feel.
I am elated by this article. For the first few years of our marriage, this was exactly what it was like. And I tried not to feel angry and bitter or ignored and neglected.
A few years ago my husband had a realization. “If she cares about it and I don’t, why wouldn’t I do it her way? It keeps her happy and I love her and want her happy so…easy logic.”
I am a stay at home wife. And when he comes home from work, he doesn’t cook, do dishes, laundry, shopping or pay a single bill. But he also doesn’t get upset at me when I say, “I’ve taken a day off. I read a good book and had several pots of tea and we are ordering in dinner.” He knows that everyone that works gets time off and that I work 7 days a week without financial compensation. My life has perks. So does his.
But he would never discount what I do for a living. And he says, “Thank you.” to me. And I say it right back. Our lives. Our work. Our reward. Our marriage. Our partnership.
Amen. Preach it.
I’m a marriage counsellor and this message needs to be heard and understood…and is best told, to be trusted, from your perspective. I wrote recently on the topic: http://bit.ly/BeforeTooLate
Could you explain what my wife means by this? Straiten up before its to late?
I would start with learning how to spell straighten! 🙂
Great post, brilliant point, & I agree wholeheartedly with your note that people love when their partners can say, “I got this” and mean it. I wrote a similar piece about how it makes us swoon when our partners just “handle” something – and the 6 types who figure a way out of every chore. I don’t usually link-drop, so please delete this if it’s not allowed, but maybe your readers will enjoy this funny post to see if they (or their partners) are one of these types: False Flatterer, Horn Tooter, The Dismisser, The Delegator, The What? Huh? Mate, or The Procrastinator. http://www.sothenstories.com/whats-killing-sexy-time-how-to-fix-it
Could someone explain this to me I’m having trouble understanding
Could someone explain this I’m having trouble understanding
I’m tired. Will someone else try? Thanks!
I can’t believe such a small thing is so important to her. It’s a tempest in a teapot. Husbands and wives tend to dig in instead of give in, too, if their spouse makes a huge deal out of a small thing. I think she’s partly insane for raising hell over a glass in the sink. If I did that I’d be living alone right now. I’ve been married since 1979, and one important thing I learned long ago was to let the small things go. We could be arguing nonstop 24-7 if we didn’t do that. Who cares if he left the ketchup, mustard and other things out. Maybe it’s an act of love to ignore becoming mad and just put them in the frig. Think about it! I could wring his neck every day and vice versa. Personally, we’ve risen above such inconsequential things. We prefer peace. I wish everyone did. Divorces would be rare.
Sure. It sounds to me like you were married to a controlling, petty, woman who nagged at everything you did that wasn’t exactly what she wanted. Rather than stepping back a bit and explaining to her that her nagging and pettiness was making her miserable and that you wanted her to be happy instead of sour and bitchy, you tried to argue with her on the merit of the stupid thing she was complaining about. Her respect for you fell further as you could neither correct her nor “fix” what she wanted, till eventually you were divorced.
Now you romanticize the time with her and are searching yourself for what you could have done to “fix” the “problem.” You are latching onto this little thing which in all seriousness you really could have easily fixed if you were not equally petty and bitchy. You revisionistically believe that if you had done this stupid thing and maybe a few others that she would have been “happy,” missing the point that she couldn’t respect you and would have found more and more things to bitch about until the same result was achieved.
You wish you still had her, probably because your own insecurity makes you doubt your worth as a man.
At the same time, you get a lot of validation by telling women here what they want to hear. You validate their own bad behavior and sense of entitlement and thus you gain some approval.
Thus you feel “right” and validated yourself. You feel evolved and modern and sophisticated.
And people are telling you this, praising you.
Good luck with your next ex-wife. You will do “everything right” and she still won’t be happy and you will have no idea why. You will either finally get a clue or you will go from wife to wife trying harder and harder doing exactly the wrong things.
Good luck to you.
Carlos – are you a marriage counselor? You seem to be able to tell everyone what they are or aren’t feeling, what they are doing wrong and what they should or shouldn’t do with no problem whatsoever. They way you have berated others all along the way in this blog I wouldn’t see you if you are some sort of counselor. Judging others’ very complex situations without knowing anything about these people like I haven’t seen in awhile, all after telling someone off for doing the same in your very first post. Why do you think you have all the answers?
(Had to delete that last comment, Carlos. I’m no fan of censorship. But I just can’t leave that word posted.)
YOU are a real man, Matt.
Just read your Letter to…IV and am so impressed. Been married to the love of my life who worked hard to learn to treat me the way you suggest after I got to the point I just didn’t care… We’ve been married for 23 years now. He did all you suggested years ago AND… It worked. I regained that passion as he showed me over and over again that I really did matter. He got me back and we are so so happy. You got it and you get it. You are very different than several men posting on here. Keep speaking the truth!
It is about learning what makes your spouse feel loved and appreciated and doing that as well as learning what makes them feel disrespected and unappreciated and NOT do it. Simple.
I am a female and have been the bread winner for 18 years. My husband was until a month ago a stay at home dad who ran his own business – which didn’t make any real money. I do believe when you get home as the bread winner (I used to commute 3 hours one way!) the idea of doing more chores and being perfect is terribly hard. You have bosses with bosses and more bosses who tell you what to do all day long. I have three kids and I come home and have to be the wife/mom too and make meals, clean dishes, etc. I know my husband contributes to this in a way. What gets me is when I come home to more dishes than I left and only he was home. Or the trash which is his chore is overflowing and he doesn’t empty it. My job is dishes, meals, etc. We try to split it up so it is equitable. But what makes me insane is that time when he literally walks over trash on the floor (probably kids) and does it all day long multiple times and never thinks to pick it up. I get home and before I even change I’m picking up dishes in the living room, things left around or on the floor (getting in the way), literally any flat surface people can leave things on rather than walk the 4 feet to put it where it should be.
Then I get so frustrated. When I worked from home for a time I took the walk to the bathroom and did a few things along the way. Wash some dishes, take out some trash, do some laundry. When a man works from home he can only “work” – and that is what killed me. Now he is not working at home and I am between contracts and I put a hot meal on the table every night, keep the house clean while interviewing for my next gig which starts soon. Men and women are different but I like the idea of this article for both genders regardless of who works from home. I hate it when he leaves grocery bags tucked in things on the counter rather than putting them under the sink. He doesn’t like it when the dogs I love, and he tolerates, bug him while he is eating. We compromise and talk to each other and try harder. If he isn’t trying I call him on it and tell him I am getting so frustrated I don’t know if he truly cares what bothers me or not anymore. And he might do the same…yes sometimes things go awry in bigger ways but I think it is MUTUAL respect and caring.
If your partner doesn’t like something do your best to remember and NOT DO IT. Don’t ask why, don’t try to argue it – sometimes it is just a pet peeve. He hates me making noise when I eat, I hate him always leaving the bathroom smelling bad. I try to remember not to make noise and he tries to remember to spray. As long as we are both trying it is something worth fighting for.
What you are describing is a LOT different from what the author is describing. Would you be so concerned if he were just leaving a glass or two out every day, but other than that the house was pretty clean and a meal was on the table? Would you be willing to ignore a few little things being left out of place every day if that were the case?
Sometimes thoughtless can feel big with just the littlest action only because you feel like a mom (or dad) constantly reminding. You don’t want to nag but they make you and you TRY not to then they do what they know you hate and….kaboom. It can happen every day to couples. I make a valiant effort to remember what drives him nuts even if it’s a glass in the sink, to show respect. Am I perfect, hell no. But the tipping point is the tipping point sometimes and frustration can make people crazy. The glass doesn’t bother me but something like that does it’s because she probably only mentioned the glass but like death by pin pricks I would venture a guess there were hundreds of these things all the time and it’s the arguing back that makes it worse. Like Nike said just do it… pick your battles wisely or not if you want to be single again. Up to the reader. But when a partner is frustrated it’s better to be understanding if you want to be together rather than argumentative if they should have been in the first place… they are and arguing would make it exponentially worse.
Your comment is the best I’ve read on this subject. You probably have a very stable relationship. Thank you for sharing your very good common sense advice.
I shared this with my husband, pretty much expecting the response i got. “I work hard, you just don’t appreciate me!” YUP. He is correct. So in 2 years when i’m walking out the door – I can tell him, he was “warned”.
He’ll be better off without you, with mindset like that. YAMP
So why do you not appreciate him? And BTW – congratulations on your pending freedom. After all those years, dying alone starts to sound pretty good…
And what makes you think she’ll be alone! Sounds like the current situation makes her alone…
I recently freaked out on my roommates for doing the same exact thing. The dishwasher is empty, yet they left it in the sink. Even if the dishwasher wasn’t empty there are people, other than myself I might add, however snarky it might seem, who are capable of unloading it, but they don’t seem aware of that capability.
Anyway, they all thought I was crazy, but the house has been cleaner since then. That’s what martial arts teachers will say. They’ll tell you that in order to defeat your opponent you have to go psycho on them. And that’s what I did. Complete psycho. I even cried a little bit, when somebody left a glass mason jar on the coffee table.
And my room mates are always offering me money when I pick up supplies. I just want someone other than myself to buy toilet paper when we’re out of damn toilet paper. It’s not about the money. It’s about the fact that I’m the house mom, when if everyone did they’re fair share, I wouldn’t be driven crazy.
And it’s not even about the mess. It’s about the fact that nobody takes accountability for themselves. And I’m super passive until one day I will snap They’re just expecting someone to put that dish in the dishwasher for them. And when I say, take care of your shit, so I don’t have to, they say, don’t clean it up.
That is so stupid. That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Just clean it up and be done with it after you use it. Otherwise, we’re knee deep in plates that have crumbs, and we’ll start living like animals. When no one takes the recycling out, it’s anarchy. When will the madness end!?
I started putting all my roommates’ dirty dishes on the stairway up to their rooms. LOL I always cleaned up my dishes so when they came home they would have a clean kitchen to make and eat their food in. That was NOT being reciprocated. They loved how I showed my respect for them the just didn’t want to show the same for me. Maybe you could start putting their dirty dished in their bedrooms and take your toilet paper into the bathroom every time you use it, taking it back out when you are done. Having dirty dishes piling up where they sleep and not having any TP to use may make them step up! ;D
I like it, Sherry. Very inventive! I was talking about it to my dad. He explained that when he lived in the college dorms, he had the smelliest room mate, so one day he stacked all of the roommate’s smelly clothes in the communal shower.
“5 Love Languages” by Gary Chapman. Key is to identify how YOUR partner needs to hear “I Love You” . It’s not always in the words, many times it’s in the deeds. Those deeds need to be important to your partner, not you. Glass in the dishwasher= I love you. Simple and complicated as that. I am extremely lucky to have found a guy who: sets up my coffee cup in the morning, takes my clothes to the dry cleaner, warms up my car, cooks a meal, puts my blanket in the dryer to warm it up before he brings it to me if I say ‘I’m chilly”. And every once in a L O N G while he’ll say “I Love you” . So when he “handles” something, I tell him he’s awesome and say “I love you too”.
^^^ 5 Love Languages: Best book on marriage and communication in my opinion. It teaches a couple to speak the OTHER’S love language. I may feel loved by very different actions than my husband does. If I keep treating him in a way that makes me feel loved, but it isn’t the way that HE feels loved, then all that effort isn’t having the effect that I hoped. If I learn his love and speak it, he will feel loved and vice versa. Great book. Can be applied very well to kids as well!
First off, this is not about a housewife, working Husband. This is about understanding what your partner considers and understands love to be. All of us are different and speak a different love language. This wife was speaking “acts of service”. The best book I’ve ever read is all about this issue. “The Five Love Languages”. It opened my eyes to the real issues in all marriage. You speak English, and she speaks French, you won’t last very long. Going the extra mile to learn how to speak their language makes a huge difference. As long as they learn to speak yours, you will find true happiness. My wife and I took a pre marriage class, and of 12 couples, we were only couple that spoke the same love language, “physical touch”. Our marriage isn’t perfect, but more importantly, it’s full of smiles and happiness more than not. Read this book. It will change your life and your marriage.
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I am sorry that any marriage would end after resentments over small things (toothpaste cap, toilet paper replacement, dishwasher load /unload ), but it is as you say, about how these little things affect your spouse. For me, I failed in a marriage over built up resentment that was about respect. However, it was more than salveageable, had he been willing to examine his own responsibilities. What gets me now is not only the dirty dish in a kitchen I’ve cleaned, but refusing spitefully to cover the food heating in microwave.
Even worse, leaving dried gunk all over the counters, stove, oven and fridge.
It can get so yucky to where I’ll refuse to go in there.
Ultimately, he cleans it all. The other side of the coin is that he takes care of me during frequent acute orthopedic downtime, after working long days.
So, he is defiant about messing the kitchen up. But most of that time, he’s tending to all of what I’d do if not incapacitated. I’m one who cleans as I go and he is like a tornado.
He knows I won’t have folks over if it’s messy like that.
He’s a hard-working generous and loving man-who just so happens to be a Tasmanian Devil in the kitchen.
But wait, he’s making his tasty Greek chicken orzo and feta olive one dish. My favorite. I’m couching it in a plaster cast while he goes BACK to the store for my prescription.
I think I’ll keep him. : )
For me, this article had nothing to do with who brings home the bacon and who fries It. It is about asking or telling your spouse or significant other to stop doing something that annoys or hurts you, and they continue to do it, like
you never said it.
If your spouse told you he didn’t like turkey or some other food, and every week, you put it on his plate, and then said, “I don’t see why you don’t like turkey. It makes no sense to me”. It doesn’t have to make sense to you, but if you do that a few times, he will feel disrespected and angry, and that makes sense to him.
If your partner tells you that something that you do or don’t do bothers them, and you keep doing it and get defensive too, look our for a cooling in your relationship.
Well said sir. Not only did this capture exactly what I feel as the wife, it gave me insight into what he feels as the husband. Those exact things you wrote are common place in my marriage & it’s been rocky many times, though neither of us want to give up on the other. I sent this to my husband & I hope it gives him the “A-ha” moment it did for me. Thank you. You hit the nail right on the head & gave me perspective to consider the thought process I’ve so many times written off as inconsiderate & thoughtless. I’ve never thought that it couldn’t be that deep.
I had fun with this… I pasted into Word and “replaced” him with her, husband with wife, he with she, etc. It took 45 minutes to crystallize some basic facts about married life, and life on Earth.
Two principles surfaced which illustrate the underlying tensions associated with respect, real and perceived. The first is that some principles just did not fit in the reverse situation. Reversal would have to assume a symmetric capacity for emotion and feelings. 40+ years of life experience tells me that women are much more capable of reading emotions. The ability to conduct analysis, over-analysis, hyper-analysis, and ultra-analysis are not character flaws, rather one could easily cite biological origins for this adaptive behavior. In reverse, it is difficult to accuse a man of being overly-thoughtful of emotions. This gender asymmetry is the reason why the reversed genders in my version of your article had to be modified to suit the thickness of a man’s skull.
The second glaring point raised by the “reverse article” is the real asymmetry of the “respect relationship” in marriage. A wife would “naturally” realize the emotional damage that the dirty dishes, dented fenders, lack of desire to do yard work, (name your poison) were causing and put it into perspective. The result of intuitive analysis might be the salvation of the marriage. This is why your article resonates so well when you, as a sorrowful man, lay your story out for discussion. I truly believe that most couples could stay together if the balance of respect is maintained.
My story: My wife and I are social and professional equals, we have good jobs, and few of the common divorce-inspiring problems. We have “normal” teenage kids (one of each). We have been married 18 years, moved once, and have “normal” families.
I work in an extremely male-dominated professional field, and my wife’s company is much more diverse, though the nature of our work is similar. I mention this because I have been a first-hand witness of many, many middle-aged divorces, from the man’s side. Some of the men had it coming, some made bad choices before and/or during the marriage, others were left high and dry, others were taken to the cleaners (emotionally and/or financially). Some of these men lost their minds before, during or after.
It is possible for the wife to be an insensitive, stubborn, slob who inspires the same sense of disrespect as you clearly laid out with the example of “dirty dishes”. Different stories include: lack of conscience for spending family resources, inability to comprehend how an engine can be destroyed by not changing the oil, leaving wet towels in the dryer to mold, forgetting appointments, even neglecting basic health and hygiene. At what point is an ignorant woman at fault for stubbornly resisting complaints about such things? Repetitive disregard for little things can undermine the balance of respect of the husband just as badly as your dirty dishes. It leaves a sense of insecurity when imagining later years, when pill bottles shouldn’t get lost and bills need to be paid on time if the husband can’t do it (assuming this was formerly his responsibility).
At what point does a husband who perceives serious disrespect come forward and call her out? When does he tell her to shape up or ship out? Your story is not perfectly symmetric when genders are reversed, but if a disrespectful spouse is a stubborn slob by most standards, only hope will keep the marriage together. Respect goes both ways.
For the record, the essence of your article also carries over to same-sex arrangements, and this would be no different if “spouse” was universally substituted for both roles in the relationship. Try it as a thought experiment.
Really interesting. I think you are right on. Whenever I read a gender-based article I think “what if the genders were switched”.
Great post. I think it comes down to the “languages” each partner speaks…more on that in a sec. I think it’s funny to read these comments, though — interesting to see the competing views. Valid points on both sides. One perspective: the reason one doesn’t have to do most/any chores is because one cleans, cooks, takes care of the kids, does the shopping, etc. etc. Let’s suggest they do 90% of the obligated tasks with regard to maintaining the home thru chores. The other perspective: The reason one gets to stay home is because the other is relied upon (heavily) to maintain their job/career in the workforce and provide a lifestyle which allows the counterpart to stay at home an accomplish these tasks. All in all about fairness and understanding, both are a necessity.
But I digress as many have indeed missed the point on this post. It’s all about languages. The OP’s wife spoke the language of “acts of service”. Picking up after himself and taking that extra step was HER way of being respected/loved. It may not seem like a big deal to most, but it was for her. I’m sure many would agree that if their partner didn’t’ show a ton of affection or attention, they would feel just as disrespected as the next. However, there would be some people (my parents for example) that don’t rely on a ton of affection or attention. So they are able to understand each other’s language. The cup issue doesn’t mean they are loving incorrectly of correctly, just that he wasn’t speaking her “language”. Same could be said for the guy. I’m willing to bet a log of women aren’t as affectionate as their counterparts would like them to be which can lead to resentment, etc.
There isn’t a handbook on what needs to be done to keep a marriage/relationship healthy. Just need to understand the languages your partner speaks. It is indeed a two way street, though. Fortunately the women out there, the language us men speak is pretty simple.
I totally agree with you! You nailed it. And so many people did miss the point of the post! There are some really sad and mean people out there LOL
Bull’s-eye! Seriously took the words out of my mouth. Me and my girlfriend fight about the littlest things that I think don’t mean a damn thing. Although, to her it is a major issue. I’m sure it’s vice versa in other situations but I feel the same as you!
More mean need to realize that service in the home is many women’s primary love language.
I’m confused… I am a woman, and I would never expect something so silly of my man. I work hard too so I understand the need to relax when you get home and not anxiously tidy away like a freak. My boyfriend and I are clean people, but we leave an occasional dish around. There might be laundry on the floor at times.
We are humans. We are not robots. A house should be lived in, not kept pristine like Home and Gardens magazine. That’s insanity to me.
Enjoy your life and let your partner enjoy his or hers. Don’t let your place be a pig sty… But one glass? That you may use later? Come on…
naomi, I think you have missed the point. The glass is symbolic. The point is, something was important to her but he saw it as trivial. It could be a million things, leaving your underwear on the floor, not cleaning the hair out of the sink when you shave, pissing on the seat of the toilet. The mind set of “just take care of it instead of bitching about it” tells her that you don’t care that it bothers her. It doesn’t matter what it is.
I am primarily responsible for housekeeping at my house. I have asked repeatedly for my husband and step daughter to please just rinse your dishes after you cook something, Fold the bag up after you get cereal out, Throw the wrappers away when you open something. When they are aware that I am the one that is primarily responsible for the cleaning and they make more for me to do they are disrespecting me and telling me that they do not care about it, therefore it is not important, regardless of what I think.
And, btw, I work a full time job and then some.
My wife “made me” read this and the sad thing Is that it just proved that there’s certain things I won’t do. If it bothers you, deal with it. You do things that annoy me but you don’t hear me crying about it. Maybe marriage wasn’t the right thing after all, ever since we got married I can’t help but think how much happier I’d be alone. Then I can put tur cup where I want the cup. Period.
Fed Up,
I don’t know your whole situation, but I once thought that way. “If it bothers you deal with it”. My wife and I have been married for 19 years and we have had more than our share of fights, disagreements, and things that bug the crap out of us. There have been times that we have seriously considered divorce, but we are still married for one reason actually two. One we to a vowel to love each other regardless of our circumstances. We both knew that there would be things that get under our skin and we both know that we are two different people. We think differently on a lot of things. Neither of us are perfect, but we work to make our marriage work. Secondly, when we took our wedding vowels we not only made a promise to each other, but also made a promise to God. Instead of pointing a finger at your wife and the situation, look at the things that positive in your marriage and build on it. Look at everything the two of you have in common that are good and positive. I can only share with you what I have experienced in hopes that it helps you and others. My wife and I have things that bug the crap out of each other, but we try hard to look at the good things in each other and it helps us focus less on the not so good, and it also keeps us from trying to fix each other. The only one that can fix us is God. Don’t take this as preaching, but simply one sharing from a different point of view that has helped our marriage.
For my wife, it is me taking care of her and providing for our family. For me, it is knowing that when I mess up, she still loves me. Marriage is a two way street and takes effort on each others part, but we are not to wait for the other to fix what is wrong with them before fixing what is wrong with us. If you know there are some areas you need to work on, then work on them. don’t wait for her to work on those areas in her life, and don’t work on them for her.
As a husband I have a responsibility to God, my wife, and family. My responsibility as a husband is to love my wife unconditionally regardless of what she says or does. I am to be an encouragement to her and uplift her not tear her down. I am to pray for her.
Again, please don’t take this as preaching, or taking sides, but rather just something that I hope will help you and your wife. Marriage is not easy, and it is a work in progress.
I actually agree with you. Marriage was not the right thing for you and if you think you’d be happier alone you are not in love with her. Why do you keep her from someone who is? How cruel is that? She would be better off without your selfishness and deserves to be treated as if she is the love of someone’s life.
This is honestly the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read. I guess the equivalent of the glass in the sink would be leaving his socks on the floor. Let me tell you, never once when I picked up my husband’s socks did I think to myself, he doesn’t love me, appreciate me or respect me. I thought *HE IS HUMAN*. Would I love him to pick up his socks? Sure! But that’s just one thing he does that I don’t like. There are plenty of wonderful things he does that are far more important than socks or a glass by the sink! I would love to hear that this woman is perfect and never continually did anything that bugged you. Please tell me you thought to yourself, ” she leaves her hair in the sink, she’s so disrespectful and doesn’t care about me!”. Lol the problem with people today is everyone is divorce happy! People are insanely over sensitive, and can’t work through a problem (even as simple as a glass by the sink) and convince everyone that this is a viable option to divorce someone you said *for better or worse till death do us part* to. Please, if you are reading this, this is not a good enough reason to end a marriage. Back away from the divorce lawyer!
If I could only get him to understand this.
You all understand that the glass is a metaphor, right?
5 years ago I would have thought “boy, he dodged a bullet by getting out of that suffocating relationship”; because I was there too. Today I just shake my head in understanding. So often it takes emotional upheaval to force us to re-examine what seemed so obvious, setting us on the road to change. The problem I found however, was my inability to figuratively re-set the table. Eventually the dirty glass represented all that was wrong with her; and the fact that I didn’t put it in the dishwasher, all that was wrong with me. For either of us to change was very difficult because it required incredible vulnerability. The sarcastic remarks or off-handed criticism always set us back to where we were. I too learned these hard lessons I wonder if Matthew discovered the truth in the same way I did; by experiencing the opposite circumstance. One in which caring, gentleness, vulnerability, understanding and the absolute joy of making someone else feel loved, cared for, and happy changed my entire view of intimacy. Someone will be very lucky to fall in love Matthew 2.0
I don’t think most of them do.
This whole argument that being a stay at home mom is such a hard job is a joke. I’m a single dad and I work 40hrs a week. My house is near spotless and I cook dinner almost every night. It’s not that hard. I can take care of all the household responsibilities including yard work and still have time to take him to do fun stuff on the weekends.
Wow you are pretty amazing. Why are you single? LOL
Because I got tired of her bitching about every little thing. I’m so much happier now and I really think it’s better for our son to grow up in two happy households as opposed to one with constant bickering.
Not trying to challenge you too much. I have one child too.
Is your child there on school nights? Needing homework completed and lunches packed and permission slips signed and laundry washed and all that?
My little guy is home 50 percent of the time. And maybe you’re just really awesome and I just really suck, but I have a lot of trouble finding the time to do everything that needs done with ONE kid home HALF the time.
I can’t even fathom what it might look like with three or more.
Apples to apples comparisons.
My corporate office job is a freaking cakewalk compared to running a house with three kids would be. It’s not close.
Just trying to be real.
He is here on school nights half of the week. He get’s his homework done immediately after school without being asked. He makes his own lunch every morning after he takes a shower. All without being told to. Get them used to taking care of themselves (which is what our job is) and you won’t have to do so much for them. He also cleans his own bathroom and does the dishes when I ask him to.
Yes three kids would be more work. But if you teach your kids to take care of themselves it makes life way easier.
I clean house once a week. Done. The rest of the week all I have to do is dishes and cooking. If he makes a mess in the house then he cleans it up. Not me. I don’t work for him.
Well. Certainly I do need to make this guy more self-sufficient. (He’s still pretty little.) But that makes a lot of sense for down the road.
Thank you for having the conversation.
This is an amazing post! In fact… Just the other night I walked in to the kitchen to find my husbands plate and drink sitting on the counter and I said to him “So, the sink was just too far huh?” He chuckled and replied “Yep, it would’ve been a strain”
And you ARE SO RIGHT. It makes me feel disrespected.
I feel like he’s saying… “Oh the bitch that lives here and takes care of everything will deal with that for me”
Now if and I have … told him this. He gasps and says, “I would NEVER think that.”
But I submit that in a way he does. He knows I will pick it up, clean it up, etc. Same with the shorts NEXT to the hamper instead of in the hamper, and the shirt on the hangers instead of hung back up. He knows I will deal with it, like his mother did for him and still does for his Dad.
But here’s the deal… For me, and I only speak for me. I know how hard my husband works every single day. Then comes home and works more in they yard, or on the house. And if this is the worse thing I have to deal with, then I am blessed woman.
Sometimes… me loving him, would be just putting the dish in the sink, or picking the shorts up, without giving him grief. Because I just love him. Flaws and all.
And we’ve been married almost 10 years. I took a vow, and no cup, or shorts or t-shirt on a hanger will dissolve this marriage.
If an empty glass on a counter seriously evolves into feelings of being unloved and disrespected, then maybe the “affected” person should examine their ability and willingness to maintain their end of a long-term partnership. My husband does lots of things that annoy me or might cause me a few extra seconds of work, but he also does alot to hold up his end of our partnership. Marriage should not be that fragile. It takes work, commitment, forgiveness and yes, the ability to overlook some things. You know the old saying, “pick your battles”. This is not a battle worth fighting. I’m sure there are thousands of things I may do to drive my spouse nuts. Guess what? He’s classy enough to not make an issue out of the little stuff. I try to do the same. I completely get that some people will NEVER care about a glass left on the counter, and another person can be driven nuts by it. Solution – if it bothers you, put the glass in the dishwasher and move on with life. It’s called compromise. Seriously, I think the author is working too hard to try and explain why two people may not get along. It’s pretty simple, they just don’t get along. Usually when a marriage sours, it was a bad match to begin with and they find they just don’t like each other enough to stay in it for life. Another old saying is “there is a lid for every pot”. Maybe you grabbed the wrong lid and need to scrounge around in the drawer for the one that fits. I just can’t imagine the progression of dirty glass on counter to feelings of being unloved and disrespected. Stop…it’s so wimpy.
Sweet Jesus people…the point is being missed! It takes a two people to work hard on the job and off the job. It takes two people working together toward a common goal to succeed. It’s not a freaking competition and if you are keeping score in a relationship you are doing it damn wrong. Both people say I love you. Both people give 110% to each other and 150% when you want to give the least as that is usually when giving more is needed the most. Do things for each other because you want to out of love not because you want something in return. If she wants you to put the glass in the dishwasher than just do it because you love her and for whatever reason it is important to hetr. And for her, say thank you and acknowledge him for this small act of love. And ladies bring the man a beet at the door after a long day or better yet, have a dinner ready and head out of a bit so your husband can come home for some alone time/peace and quiet after a long day. Marriage is the only job that is 24/7/365 and its hard but you in it together so dig in your heals and hold steady BUT remember it is you two together against the world, not against each other!!!?
It’s not the glass, it’s all the little things that add up into a huge thing that shows absolutely zero respect and not much love. When you love someone you don’t just say it, you do the things to show that love and appreciation you have for that person. No truer words can be spoken than actions speak louder than words. And when you make life easier for her/him you get that back ten fold. What does it hurt to throw a glass in the dishwasher after you’ve used it. What a small thing to do for her if you love her. So what if you’re not finished with the glass, throw it in the dishwasher anyway and get a clean one when you need another drink. It’s important to her and therefore should be important to you. When I started reading this article I had some tears, it hit home. I know that may sound totally ridiculous to some but I have fought for the little things (and big things) for years but after a while I quit fighting because all I got were hurt feelings and heartache. But this goes way beyond the glass, it’s the feeling of being alone, doing no thing together. Never asking if I needed help, never asking if I was hungry never asking if I needed a drink (with a clean or dirty glass) while working my tail off (alone) power washing and sealing the deck while he laid on the couch watching an episode of Seinfeld he’s watched so many times he can recite the whole show verbatim. Although I did hear him on the phone telling his mother that I was working so hard it was making him tired. One time he spilled powder laundry detergent all over the floor of the laundry room, he told me about it but didn’t clean it. I didn’t clean it either and I didn’t clean it because I wanted to see how long it would take him to clean it, 3 weeks and yes, he finally swept it, but by then it had gotten damp and and was stuck to the floor, the broom just didn’t do it and yes, I ended up mopping it up and cleaning it right. You can’t help what you feel, right or wrong, it’s how you feel. When my children were little I could ask them to do something and I would then forget it because I “knew” it would get done and get done right but with him, it never got done or would half way get done and I’d end up redoing it right. I’ve raised my children, I refuse to raise my mate. Bottom line, if it’s important to her/him then it should be important to you and vice versa. I know some will say “don’t sweat the small stuff” but the small stuff is just as important as the big stuff, it adds up. A relationship is not always 50/50, sometimes it’s 80/20 and sometimes it’s 100/0 and all points in between but one person in the relationship should NEVER have to do it all. We are no longer together and that hurts…bad. Sometimes I miss him so much I can barely breathe but just because you love someone doesn’t mean you can live with them. Women like to feel safe and loved, women like to be taken care of or at least feel like they are being taken care of and I never felt that. I felt as if the weight of the world was pressing down on me and no one likes to feel that way. It got so bad I had a nervous breakdown, crying uncontrollably, couldn’t breathe, had no sense of time and all I got was harsh words, he didn’t sit with me, he didn’t touch me or hold me, he only came in the room twice, the rest of the time, you guessed it, he was on the couch watching tv. So yes, the small stuff can and will add up especially if it’s mixed up with some major stuff. Did he love me? Yes, he did (and still does) and I know he loved and loves me with all he has but all he has is not enough.
I think most people have misconstrued this post. It isn’t about men vs women, it isn’t about dishes, it’s about communication and empathy.
To have a true partnership you must be willing to listen to your partner when they reveal their needs to you. Every couple has their own “dirty dishes by the sink”. Perhaps your partner likes to talk about a subject that bores you, your partner doesn’t help clean up after guests are over, your partner always sides with other family or friends over you. The point is, when your partner communicates their needs with you that you are not dismissive and see these moments as an opportunity to strengthen the relationship.
It goes both ways, but many couples have difficulty doing this. Those are the ones that will likely divorce, those that figure this out will have a great marriage.
Super! Conversations have to happen and co-habitation makes them difficult. Talking at someone is an easy thing. Engaging someone takes initiative and vulnerability. Those qualities are gender neutral. Well written.
Completely agree with the statement you do things because you love her not because its a chore. That is part of the reason I’m getting a divorce. Everything was a chore and i had to write things dwn for him to do it. I should be a partner, a consideration not a chore ir a mother.
Hello?! I’m reading the comments and people are still focusing on the glass and “she should get I’ve it and be grateful”. It’s not about the freaking glass!!! Stop focusing on this one example. It’s about being mindful about the things that matter to each other – husband to wife and wife to husband. We all work hard in whatever way because we are responsible adults. But it’s not even about that. It’s about respect. And to anyone whining about how a stay at home mum should be bowing down to their bread winning partner – ask yourself what level of respect you have for her and all she does!! Then she’ll give it back ten fold
Wow! I stopped reading after a few posts because they were so defensive and negative. As I see it, the purpose of this article is for each partner to see their faults in the relationship and work on them so they don’t succumb to the defensive, argumentative habits that so many couples fall prey to. I found it refreshing that the author saw what he had failed to do in his marriage and decided to correct his ways. In the same light, the wife in the article was at fault for not fully expressing what she wanted/expected out of her spouse. It is so easy (for me) to nag or hint at what I would like to have happen without addressing what the crux issue of the problem is. I am not saying that this is what the issue was in this case, but this seems to be a habit pattern of myself and many women I know. Openness and expressive communication is key and can make or break a relationship, in my experience. My husband and I have worked so hard on this that we have a couple of friends that call us “The Litterals” LOL! We still don’t get it right all the time, but we do try!! 🙂
You rock.
Holy Shit! I am gonna go do the friggen dishes right now!
The point of the article is to acknowledge that the things we men think are little insignificant things may be “little” but they are not insignificant at all. When men take the stance that the small stuff should be taken care of by others, which is what we are saying if we don’t don’t ourselves, then the women will think he thinks of her as small stuff and insignificant. It’s not about the glass or the energy to take care of it. It is about the women learning that the small amount of thought or energy it takes to do these small things are not important enough for a man’s thought or energy and it make her feel insignificant….or a slave. It doesn’t matter who the bread winner is or who works harder. It is about respecting eachother and not creating work for one another. If it is just a friggen glass you left out or your underware on the friggen bathroom floor then pick up your own shit. You made the mess. Your kids are going to learn from what you do and how you treat your wife I’d how they will treat her and their own wife. How do you want your daughter treated by her husband? Treat your wife like you want your daughter treated.
I have to go now and pick up the toe nails I left on the floor by my bed before my wife sees them.
A happy wife is a happy life!
Lol. Love your attitude
Amen!!!!
if I give you my husbands phone number will you call and tell him this?
I absolutey will. Do you think he would listen?lol. It is actually reall simple. We all do not want people looking down at us or making us feel like less of a person. This goes for the Man and the Women. Most men think they work harder….I know how hard my wife worked at home..(I did not really at the time)…we had 4 boys…3 in diapers at the same time. There were times our diaper bill was higher than our grocery bill. I worked daylight to dark many times as a roofer in those younger years….because I had to pay for all those diapers…… and it was physically exhausting. And those were very tough years for my wife too as I did not acknowledge really the eshaustion she was going through doing all of that on her own. But we made it through and 25 years later…..I know I have another 25 years to make it up! 🙂
P.S. She also acknowledges all my efforts as well. Very much a mutual thing now….and although I may not have expressed myself in my younger years….I know how hard it was for her too.
Thanks for posting your perspective, Andy. “When men take the stance that the small stuff should be taken care of by others, which is what we are saying if we don’t don’t ourselves, then the women will think he thinks of her as small stuff and insignificant.” And it does go both ways, I can’t even imagine leaving a mess or just a glass, and expecting someone else to pick-up/clean-up after me.
Here’s just another perspective from a marriage counselor. Two thirds of all divorces are initiated by women. Here’s how it OFTEN goes: woman has been pushed and pushed and pushed until she goes past some invisible line in the sand that even she may not know where it lies. Once she’s crossed that line it’s really very hard to bring her back, if not impossible. She tells her husband “I’m done” and he gets a deer in the headlights look, acts surprised as if this is the first he’s heard she’s been unhappy. Maybe she gives him a chance at marriage counseling and maybe not. If not, he will often beg to be given another chance and she essentially says “too little too late”.
This is not to say that marriage problems only come from men doing rotten things toward women. It does go both ways. However, research shows that when women do not feel like they influence their partners’ behavior as a result of feeling heard, respected, valued and counting equally, then that marriage has about an 87% chance of divorce. Men believe women make all the decision and I cannot tell you how many men in therapy, when asked, will admit that they only make the decisions about what the men don’t really care about and there’s not a lot of influence when the men care a lot.
I read so much anger and resentment in the responses here and it makes me sad. Most couples are in fairly big trouble an average of 6 years before they seek any outside help. In that time, so many resentments have built up, so many bad habits have become solidified and so much mistrust about whether the other person even cares enough to do the hard work of making a marriage mutually satisfying, that it’s a pretty heavy lift for the therapist.
Kudos for writing this article because you nailed what it’s really like. Is it the only way things go down? No. Do women sometimes hurt their husbands in similar (yet different in the details) ways? Absolutely. Good marriages happen when both partners really CARE about what the other person is feeling, wants and needs and then act in the behavior that supports that caring.
Thank you, Dr. Benson. I’m grateful you took the time to be part of the conversation. I’d never heard that “six-year” figure before. I’d be interested in learning more about that.
Thank you for reading. It feels good to have professionals validate the ideas, though I suppose it makes sense. None of this is original, other than my slightly sophomoric tone. All of the ideas are a compilation of a bunch of things I’ve read that jibe with the memories I have about my relationship.
Of course all of us can do better. I like talking to “guys like me,” which I define as decent men who really have the best intentions, but accidentally destroy their marriages one little fight, and one little selfish behavior, and one little oblivious oversight at a time.
It’s imperceptible to most husbands like that. Their wives know something’s wrong, but he’s not hearing it.
First major life trauma or family crisis breaks it.
I find the entire scene really sad and unnecessary. It’s really cool to have one of these posts achieve such wide reach. But a little discouraging to see so many not get it at all.
Thanks again for your time. Much appreciated.
Matt – Thank you for sharing and you are right on. It does go both ways, but what you are focused on in this article can be applied to many situations and not just a glass by the sink. Women can learn how to make their men feel more appreciated as well if we listen… Really listen. Thank you!
my sister posted you. I asked my husband to read it. He got it. After almost leaving so many, many times in the past 13+ years, my gratitude to you cannot be put in words, just want you to know that for the 1000’s that never get it, one did. My husband. It means the world to me. Thank you. From the bottom of my heart. I feel heard for the first time. Please, keep writing.
Thank you!!!!!!!!! Thank you! A voice of reason and knowledge that isn’t based in bitterness and anger.
>> Good marriages happen when both partners really CARE about what the other person is feeling, wants and needs and then act in the behavior that supports that caring.<<
BINGO! This is the whole crux of Matt's very insightful article wrapped up in on very poignant statement. Thank you Matt and Dr. Benson!
Of course this could apply to adult children who live at home too. Except you can’t divorce them.
Kelly when I shared this to Facebook I said exactly the same thing. I want to copy and past and substitute children and parents then have my children read it out loud.
From a woman’s perspective, I can tell you that my accumulating my non-dishwasher items next to the sink, and him coming home to them every day, nearly caused a divorce. What he needed to do was communicate. Why would I spend my day washing every non-dishwasher item when I was going to do them after dinner (which I cooked)? Seems like not a very good way to spend my time duration no the day. But what he saw, was that I didn’t respect him enough to do my dishes while he was at work. (Never mind everything in the five bedroom, 5 person, 1 1/2 hour dog walk house that we live in and I keep clean and do the laundry for). So now I spend my days washing any dish I touch, no trace of me here, and I actually get less done. And I’m bitter. But we’re still married. Oh joy.
The difference, I think, is if you left a sink full of dishes for him to do after work – unless you had some agreement. Sally, you’re doing the dishes. Him dictating when you do them would be like you going into his job and telling him what to do when. It’s demeaning.
He sounds as awful as the woman in this article.
That doesn’t sound fair :(. If you have an efficient process that gets the job done eventually, I fail to see what’s wrong with having some dishes near the sink.
You’re justification seems sensible, why didn’t he like it?
Some of these comments enrage me to the core. It should never be about making sure you do equal hours of work. What it should be is sharing responsibilities. Some take more emotional energy and some take more physical energy. Regardless, you are both working together.
I completely agree with the author. You say you provide a comfortable lifestyle? Ok, what if your wife takes that money that you have made and spends it on nothing useful for your family? I’m not talking about little stuff. I’m talking about if she uses a vast amount more than you’re budgeted for making you unable to pay your bills? Is that not disrespecting what you are working so hard for? If she has worked so hard to make something clean and safe for you and your family to live in a safe, healthy, and happy home, then it is the exact same principle. You making her job harder by making that home dirtier is just like her spending your family’s money frivolously and her expecting you to work overtime to fix it.
We, as husbands, will never understand why it hurts a woman’s heart for you to disrespect her in that way just like wives will never understand why is has no meaning to us at all.
Just read this blog entry but the situation is reversed, she leaves her dishes. 4 extra seconds … these sorts of “fights” we stopped having a few years ago however. She’s frankly defensive and I no longer have the bandwidth for it.
When we were both working much of this was masked by busyness and growing the family. I’ve been out of work for a few years, rejiggering my career and the expectation is for me to do everything that isn’t employed work. Not entirely realistic, since people who work still have to do household crap. And also, my life will never be only about keeping the house going. Ironically, the kids are now old enough to help out around the house so it’s less of an issue.
She appreciates what I do but not to any great extent or rather, on a different level. Summer of 2013 I dropped the bombshell on her that we weren’t great. The lightbulb that finally came on was that I had spent most of our marriage setting aside who I might become. She wanted to know what happened all of sudden but there was nothing per se that “happened.” I devoted lot of time, in my mind, to “that pleasure to do things that enhance (our) lives” without much recompense for lack of a better word, and never knew how to act on it.
Her response that summer, after a large silence and “quiet anger” was to declare being a different person overall was impossible and that divorce was an option. Wait–WHAT?
I had been thinking that already (because it wasn’t just about the housekeeping) after never even considering it. It was both a shock and a relief to hear her rather unemotionally say it. All discussions tabled since I wasn’t in a position to act further.
I’ve reached out to some friends and family since then (she wasn’t interested in counseling) but in the last year have been quiet. I’m tired of complaint. My roommate and I have a workable and pleasant enough coexistence and we are always on-point where the kids are concerned. I’ve gone back to school and will become employed again, gaining financial independence. And then all bets are off.
I know what’s on the other side. I’ve seen glimpses of it elsewhere and no I didn’t cheat on her. I also used to have it here, back when not as much was important. I grew more into myself. She stayed the same. She’s a great person on many fronts and it can be hard to point to any traditional failures but she doesn’t bring me happiness.
David,
This proves my point earlier that this is a two-way street of mutual respect that is needed for a healthy relationship. I wish you well.
I think wives also need to be sensitive about what they ask. I came home dog tired from work after also pulling an all-nighter the previous night. Seeing my wife struggling with the kids I offered to wash the dishes. As I did so my father called to say that my seriously ill mother wasn’t doing well and that I should hurry right over. I told my wife. She said that I promised to wash the dishes. I kept my promise. Meanwhile my mom, who lived only ten minutes away, died before I got there.
I never, ever comment on things, but this is devastating to me. I’d like to think that my wife would never hold something as small as doing the dishes to such a strict timetable when an issue like family health conflicted, but I know that anything is possible. So sorry to hear your circumstance. I realize that’s very little in the way of condolence, but there’s not much else that can be said.
You obviously didn’t read the whole article.
James, am so sorry to hear that. That’s just terrible.
A man that gets it! XO.
Because his mom died? What is wrong with you?
Oh my goodness! A man who actually gets this! This has been a fight (one that I have lost many times) that I have had with my husband soooo many times. And you are right! It’s not about the glass in the sink, it’s the fact that I (the wife, whom he is supposed to love as much as himself, if not more than, whom he promised to love with his whole heart) asked him to do it. He can buy all the flowers in the world for me, but if he doesn’t put that glass in the dishwasher, I’m going to think he doesn’t love me! He can kiss me, be intimate with me, but that doesn’t even come close to the kind of love that is expressed to me when he does the simple things I ask of him.
I think it’s so great that you do everything your husband ever asks you, no matter how trivial, the first time and never need to be reminded. You must be a treasure.
THIS – this part is pure truth.
“I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.”
However, “I don’t have to understand WHY she cares so much about that stupid glass.” negates that.
It takes the tone of your blog toward “I’ll do what you want to make you happy – but you can’t make me care about it!” That’s not respect. That’s…I don’t know what that is.
Being a partner is about agreeing to things – in this case, standards of housekeeping. And then living up to them because it’s best for the family. Not belittling the idea and then saying you’ll do it anyway to show respect.
I think you’re on the right track, but I hope you are willing to consider you could go further along this path.
Understanding the WHY is very important. I just didn’t write that sentence very well.
All I’m saying is to accomplish what needs accomplished, a husband doesn’t NEED his mind and body to do the same thing his wife’s mind and body do. He doesn’t have to “agree” with her about the relative importance of a glass by the sink.
A husband need only make the choice to love and respect his partner enough to choose to place value on something–not just because of how his mind and body naturally respond to it–but sometimes to simply choose to care because his wife does.
She cares. I know that she cares. I don’t care. But because she matters to me, I’m going to care for that reason alone.
That’s what I meant to say.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply
I can’t thank you enough for this. This put into words things that I barely was even able to put on finger on when my marriage was ending. One person commented that your wife was just as much at fault for not communicating to you what she was feeling. I agree, and claim the same fault as my own, but also will add that at the time I was going through it I’m not sure that I could have articulated what was going on. I only knew I felt hurt, and distanced and frustrated…but it took counseling and time on my own after the divorce of going through things and figuring out what had really happened. This article is what happened, and seeing it written out so clearly, sometimes using almost exact phrasing that I have used in explaining the situation to others (ie I didn’t want to be his mother, I wanted to be his partner), is amazing. In some ways it was extremely painful to read, because it hit the nail on the head so entirely, and put concrete statements behind an experience that in some ways I can still only feel, but not explain or describe. Thank you for being vulnerable and being willing to be honest about a situation that perhaps doesn’t cast you in the best light. Although I will be the first to say that I made terrible mistakes in my marriage as well, and I can’t ever point the finger at him and say it was all his fault, I will say that had I been able to express this issue to him, the way you expressed it here… I don’t know. Maybe things would have gone differently, maybe not. But thank you for putting this out there. It was painful, but in some strange way, healing, for me to read.
Great article. Wish men would understand. I left my husband because of his violence and much of the above. He’d actually sit there and not say a word even when his father would discuss at the dinner table ‘ leave this one. Lets got get your another wife ‘. Ironically, his father now poses as a ‘respectable head of our community’ and no one has a clue what a con he is.
My husband did not even so much have the courtesy/sense to give me money, yet I was not allowed to work since we were such a rich and prominent family in Nairobi, it is not respectable of the women of the house to be working. His younger brother would always comment on why I needed money since I lived in the family home.
As depression set in, I then started having alot of health issues but not once do I recall did my husband take my health to be a concern and take me to a doctor to help sort the matter.
Such is the hypocrisy of living in ‘rich and highly respected’ joint indian families.
I put up with this nonsense for 10 yrs. In fact my mother in law had already found him a wife while we were still married. Everything had been arranged and he got married in India 2 days after my divorce came through. Half the town went to the wedding – with no concern to stand up for the fact that is this abusive and lying man worthy of anything.
My ex husband is now head of the region for Rotary International, whose 1st principle is ‘Is it the thruth?’. Irony all the way!
I struggled for years to explain this to my ex, and never could. I just sent this to him in the hopes that maybe he can get a better understanding of how I felt.
Fantastic read. You are clearly an intelligent man. You’ve definitely gained some perspective, it seems…
HOWEVER, ahem, I think the way you described what the glass situation symbolized was a bit on the dramatic side (i.e. partner feels unloved, sad, disrespected, etc.) It’s really much simpler than that. It’s, like, super super basic. She asks you to stop doing something and it doesn’t otherwise compromise your beliefs, morals, or freedom to do it, then DO it. She probably thinks, “Damn, it’s such a small thing, wouldn’t he rather do it than listen to me bitch about it all the time?” You probably don’t mean to declare war, it doesn’t even have anything to do with her, right? But to her leaving the glass appears like a passive aggressive and purposeful display, declaring the two of you are at odds. And it keeps happening over and over again. She might be thinking that if her partner isn’t going to do little stuff, then all the other stuff sort of loses value… like all of it.
I’ll subscribe to your blog but you better stay entertaining. ?
I have to argue that is sounds irrational, but it really is about feeling loved and appreciated and it really does hurt when they ognore the small things. Its something that I care about, and regardless of whether it matters to you are not on its own, it should matter to you that I care about it and you care about me.
This article is ridiculous!! If you actually physically hurt because your partner leaves dirty dishes around the sink it is you with a problem and your partner would be better off without your crazy ass. Be thankful she left you dude! There’s someone else out there that’s got your same tendencies and they too don’t give a flying hoot about something so trivial.
Reblogged this on anyway2015 and commented:
My boyfriend is always telling me how irrational I am about things like this. He doesn’t understand what it implies or what it means to me. My take home message from this is – i will try to show him how it is important to me, i will also place myself in his shoes to figure out reasons why he gets angry over things i believe is trivial and finally i will never ever take anybody for granted or let myself be taken for granted. <3
Thank you for writing this. I have recently split up with someone who I thought would be my lifelong partner. I couldn’t do it anymore. I couldn’t nag at him anymore. It was something just as small as leaving a dish by the sink.
You explained it way better than I could ever have. It moved me to tears to learn that someone could actually understand what I was thinking and feeling. Thank you.
I read “5 love Languages” and cleared this up with my SO. He would have probably left me for leaving dishes in the sink. Then I realized he felt loved by “Acts of Service” so i made myself do chores. My language is “Words of affirmation” so he makes himself use words to let me know he loves me.
In the end we make each other better people. Our fights would literally be like..Me: You don’t love me, you never say it… you never express it… blah blah blah… Him: Well you always leave you’re stuff everywhere and never do the dishes!!!
Me: WTF????? no- sense…
then i read the book! changed everything.
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Screw her it’s crap. Man up find you a new woman who doesn’t act like an idiot over a glass. Maybe she just wants to control you. The glass is just a test to see how far she can go. Your giving her the benefit of the doubt thinking it’s over love. If she really loved you she would actually communicate and she wouldn’t leave you over something so small. Grab you testicles back mate and respect yourself.
….And be single for life.
the glass is symbolic. He says in the article that she did communicate but he disregarded her as petty. She didn’t leave him over the glass (which is symbolic) she left him because he was not able to understand that when you love someone it goes a long way so make what is important to them important to yourself, simply because it is important to them. It’s not hard, really.
I have some tangential questions…
1) if the marriage is in trouble, and divorce is not something both sides desire, then logically WHY NOT try something new (like trying a change of perspective and empathize with another point of view), instead of recycling the same unhappy futile arguments over and over and over that never goes anywhere? Why desperately repeatedly bang your head on the wall when you could try something different? If people were logical creatures, they’d recognize that the 999th accusation isn’t going to work any better than the previous 998 reiterations of the same complaint, and it’s just a waste of time and energy.
2) How does a person understand what they’re feeling and why, and *acting on* emotions vs *acting out* emotions, so that they can effectively communicate this to their spouse? And why it’s in his/her benefit to do so. For example, if the wife realized that by always framing the conversation to be about the dirty glass specifically, the conversation is always about the rationale of the dirty glass to the clueless husband. It could have been different if she expressed to him that the dirty glass is symptomatic of a larger dream that she has. It’s the difference between something like “Her: You never take out the garbage! Him: That’s BS, I took it out last week” vs “Her: I want to talk about how I feel ignored and dismissed when you don’t take out the garbage.” Those can be two completely different conversations.
2b) …And if she doesn’t articulate herself perfectly every time, which is not a realistic expectation, especially when the kids are screaming or she’s tired and pissed off after a long day of work, how does the husband learn to understand the unarticulated dream behind her complaint? You cover that in this post, but how do you both work together to understand each other?
3) Every relationship has an emotional bank account. Every act of love and respect and laughter adds to this “bank account”. It is deducted every time one feels hurt, dismissed, unsupported, unappreciated, etc. By the time that bank account is empty, it’s usually too late, and you often don’t even realize it until it’s too late and overdrawn. So how do you manage that? For example, how do you discuss the dirty glass situation without getting each other angry and disappointed and thus deducting from the emotional bank account, which is a tragedy since the whole point of the discussion was to *save* the bank account?
4) your post is really about empathy. If a husband understands her perspective, it’s easier to feel empathy for her unhappiness. He may not 100% agree, but at least he “gets” her. What if you DO understand his/her perspective, but (as demonstrated by various posters) it’s still not enough? What’s missing from the puzzle?
Well, that’s probably enough for now.
Interesting perspective. I used to argue myself out of divorce, saying it was stupid to divorce n over dirty dishes, laundry on the floor, and pizza boxes. But they did, as uou put it so succinctly, signify a lack of respect towards me as a peraon, and toward my role in the house. My husband would ball up his trash and throw it on the floor, would turn his nose up at a meal I spent hours cooking, would undress on his way upstairs, leaving a trail of clothes, and would expect me to run along behind picking it up. It wasn’t the dirty dishes, the laundry…it was the total lack of respect for the effort I put I to the jouse, and the lack n of respect for the nest, our home. It meant nothing to him, so I left. We aren’t mommy, just because you make more, or all, of the money, doesn’t make up servants. We want partners. Sad, isn’t it, how something so small symbolizes so much.
Now I understand talking to each other, thus I feel that the wife should have asked why hubby always left the glass, then I would tell him how that made me feel, came to an agreement about it then expect him to keep his part of the agreement then go on with my day. ?
I mean how would he know what I was going through unless I told him?
Thank you. So well said. I do feel like that but never have been able to articulate it. Going to share this with my husband.
I really enjoyed reading this post 🙂 and completely agree. You managed to explain perfectly! I, being a woman, couldn’t explain it.
Reblogged this on rollingblogger and commented:
A long, but vital read for all married couples.
This is so totally true. I sent it to my husbands email. Maybe he will see it in a brighter light than me trying to explain it o him. I’m not going to divorce him..that’s not the answer but it would be really nice realllllllly nice if he understood what I am sayng about picking things up and putting things away after himself.
Thoughtful article, missing a point tho. There is actually a tangible reason the wife feels disrespected and unappreciated and is not just simple validation, or men and women being “different thinking”. The point is, with the 1000s of things a wife juggles, every little thing the man doesn’t do… Guess who has to end up doing it? The wife! So yeah if it’s inches away from the dishwasher and only takes 4 seconds… Why leave it as one more thing for her to do and not just do it? It’s a figurative slap to the face and WHY we would find it disrespectful. “I’ll never be interested in the glass being in the dishwasher” well of course NOBODY is but someone has to do it. Is not like women love doing chores either. We do them becuause we care even if we wish we didn’t have to and even if we get no credit or validation for it.
Wish someone would have told my husband all of this. He didn’t listen at all when I was direct about the “little” things – he didn’t need to decode anything! Of course, there’s more to it than that, like the things he would say (“I felt no love for you in our wedding day, ” “I don’t care about you when you’re mad at me,” “I would have left if I wasn’t trying to obey Jesus,” etc.). I now can’t imagine myself being loved in even the basic way this article talks about, let alone any sort of celebration or romance. Thanks for being someone who gets it.
Not a good reason to divorce your husband, but I get it, it’s the same battle I have in my house, never seen my husband wash a dish a day in his life, dishes are just not his thing I suppose. Afters years of being together I’ve come to realize dishes are simply not his thing and cutting grass and doing other things around the house is not my thing, we agree to disagree and meet each other half way. He still wash no dishes, sometimes don’t even put the damn dish in the damn sink, and tho that irritates me, I look at all the positive he does and I also look at all the things I do that irritate him that I tend to repeat. And once in a while he looks at me and say “thank you, for all that you do” man are not perfect neither are we. If I have to spend the next 50 years reminding you to put the dish in the sink and wash it, than I will do that, it does not mean you love me less or don’t respect me, it simply means you are a human, a very lazy one at times. When you love someone you simply don’t give up on them. I guarantee you that lady will be divorcing the next man she marries, because if it’s not the dish it will be something else. And no we are not there mother but the closest thing to it. You have to be your partners everything. For better or worse. I suck at savings and the whole finance thing, if it was not for him I would be dead broke, and daily he reminds stop spending, stay on budget, he gets mad, does that mean I don’t respect him by continuously doing something he knows can put us in a bad shape, nope he just reminds me daily and works with me, sometimes you just gotta hold each other’s hand through every stages of life and better each other because you have a life time to better each other. People are quick to divorce simply because they don’t want to work hard at something. Raising kids is hard, well so is marriage. Shit life is hard people and if you have someone you can share that burden with, than a dish or a toilet seat or cloths on the floor is not gonna be my problem, none of us is going to make out alive anyways. I leave dishes in the sink sometimes, I drop a shirt or socks around sometimes too but it’s ok because I do most of the cleaning, I hate to vacuum so he does most of the vacuuming. I doubt my husband will ever wash a dish, it’s annoying but who cares, we don’t accumulate that many dishes to the point that I will die if I have to continue to wash them. You just gotta find a common ground and meet each other half way. This article is not realistic to me, it’s setting people up for disappointment and failure, and the divorce rate will continue to rise with this mentality. People get so lazy in a marriage and let the little stuff stress them out. There is more to life and marriage than dishes and dirty cloths on floor. Pick your battle. I believe when someone start falling out of love with you and get bored in a marriage, the dishes start becoming a problem, the more the fall out of love the bigger the problem is, all the little stuff become bigger than what they really are, before you know it, it’s an easy way out and excuse. You sounded like an awesome husband, remind your wife the grass is not always greener on the other side.
Translation: Women can’t help being emotional and irrational. So, if you love a woman and want to keep her happy, stop trying to persuade her using logic and reason and just adjust your behaviour to suit her preferences.
Too many people Jump straight to divorce..they would rather find a new partner and start everything over then communicate and work to fix the few problems they have yet to deal with together. Think about it, what if you got past the dishes in the sink problem? Either the man starts doing what he’s asked or they come to a compromise but then what, life is peaches and cream? If either person in a relationship is upset and doesn’t vocalize it then they are just as at fault as the person causing the upset.
I remember the moment I opened the dishwasher again and put his glass in and asked myself if I wanted to do this the rest of my life. I was 39 at the time. What a deep observation. And I didn’t want counseling either as you said. It wasn’t about that glass. At any point had my husband of 17 years ever respected by opinions or views I would still be in that relationship. You so nailed it.
I went in to find my true soulmate and I couldn’t be happier.
Ditto. It wasn’t about the glass.
This makes a lot of sense and probably why I am divorced. My frustration in my situation was the continual saying he would take care of it, and maybe multiple days later or not at all it would not be taken care off, evem a simple task like putting glass in dishwasher type scenario, he would walk right past it multiple times. Also, he told me once yhat he didn’t do stuff right away when he was mad at me because it was a way of getting back at me in a passive aggressive way. That definitely undermined a lot of trust. I know on my part is was an extreme lack of communication. What I communicated was do this and do that. Tried lists, texting and telling, but sure it came across to him as nagging! So in the end we had no mutual respect for each other, our work schedules just made situation worse. So yes valuing each other and respecting each other’s opinions and wishes do make a marriage stronger.
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AMEN!!
Oh..my..gosh. ??? but ❤️. I haven’t cried like that in months. As a woman reading this article I feel validated. I’m also so mad at myself that I didn’t know this things. I didn’t know that telling him a million times doesn’t mean he knows. miscommunication is probably the reason we failed and lack of mutual understanding. If I had understood the way he processes information I would have reacted differently. I’m so sad that me not understanding him hurt him, I’m stronger than he is.
Terrible wife, I highly doubt that this was the actual reason, likely she had another man picked out. She was probably sick of having to live with such a pathetic man who couldn’t set appropriate boundaries for her mental instability. Hope that the cat loving singletons posting that this man would be their soulmate stay single, the problem is YOU not the man.
Wow. The part about he’ll never understand even if she has tears in her eyes and tells him straight out in clear language that something is hurting her…in my recently disintegrated marriage this was the case for 18 years and it had nothing to do with anything remotely like a glass by the sink, which to be honest I really couldn’t care less about if that glass makes to the kitchen within 24 hours of being used…and even then I’m pretty willing to just take it there myself when I can. But he was regularly emotionally unavailable and overtly hurtful. And after 18 years he still believed it was always fine no matter how he behaved and that my need to feel safe and secure and loved was meaningless…and that it was my fault I struggled with feeling that way, not seeing him as he wanted to be seen, and not treating him as he wanted to be treated, right up to the present moment three months after he turned on his own marriage vows.
That’s the take-away for me for future. Stay away from men or figure out how to recognize the few who give a hoot to (and know how to) listen and communicate honestly and kindly, to believe what you say and to care how you feel rather than constantly criticizing and invalidating you in a million different ways. If I live a million more years it will still be far too soon to ever listen to another man claim that I’m too sensitive, because his snark or sarcasm or non-constructive criticism or outright hostility is harmless and totally meaningless in his own eyes.
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My question: Were YOUR reasons for not putting the glass in the dishwasher ever expressed verbally, or just internally?
While I agree that something like this can indicate a much deeper issue with respect and appreciation, it can only be validated if both sides actually discussed the problem and their feelings with each other. Just giving in to the whim of another, resenting the need to do it at all, is no better than not doing it without an expressed reason. Because at some point, that issue is going to come full circle; at some point, YOU are no longer going to feel respected because you CONSTANTLY have to take care of this ‘little thing’, just as she did. Many people like to make assumptions about the actions of their SO, and many people internalize their feelings about their SO without verbally expressing them; both sides of the same coin and, usually, one of each in a relationship. These two reaction-types definitely don’t get along with themselves and definitely not with the other…
There doesn’t always have to be a validated ‘why’, no, but there needs to be clear, verbal communication between both parties in order for a relationship to work. If one person can’t stand dishes, but the other uses the same glass for several days, that needs to be stated. If one leaves their laundry on the floor until the laundry is collected to be done and the other hates that, make a point of expressing that so it’s known. Discussion, not arguing, typically leads to treaties where both parties can feel respected and equal. The most important thing to always keep in mind is that concessions are an inherent part of a functioning relationship, but there’s a big difference between mutual agreements and presumed expectations.
Thank you thank you for sharing this enlightenment. How you expressed it is exactly how I feel. Funny how these things pop up just when you need them.
This is the worst pickup line I’ve ever read.
Thanks Rick.
Been married 32 – happy, not perfect! – years. We both do things (unknowingly, never on purpose) that drive each other bonkers. You’d think after 32 years, we’d have this thing perfected, but marriage doesn’t work like that. Still – this is a man I cannot imagine my life without. I.LOVE.HIM. And he worships me (trust me – I just “know” this). So pick and choose your battles folks! And talk, talk, talk, discuss, argue, make up, talk, argue, make up, yell, cry, praise, apologize, C.O.M.M.U.N.I.C.A.T.E. Cause when you (likely) start all over with spouse #2 (with possible kids in tow), you’ll have all the same crap to work through, plus tons of new stuff.
Holy Over a cup? If she saw what was by my sink right now because of my man she ould probably divorce, castrate, kill and bury him.. There is worse thing in life to get mad oever.. Like a Sink FULL of dishes.. 😛
Wauw great post! Definitly going to send it to my husband, hoping he will understand it then! We have a great marriage and I would not divorce him because he leaves his stuff around for me to clean up. But if a marriage is not that solid anymore, this might just be the little push to get to such a decision. Thank you for your words!
This article highlights everything wrong with the modern day feminist movement. Rather than seeing your husbands strengths, you highlights his faults and are quite fine ending a marriage over this…”The Worst Generation” indeed
how do you know she did not see his strengths? I’m just curious. He does not mention anything about her not making him happy, or letting him down, so why do you assume she did?
I think the worst thing anyone can do is try to change someone. If you are dating someone who leaves dishes in the sink, and you marry them, you’ve just married someone who leaves dishes in the sink. Congratulations. Now get mad about it. If you don’t like dishes in the sink, wash them. Respect is loving someone for who they are. People need to stop getting so butt hurt over simple ridiculous things. A person isn’t going to change just because they said “I do” and it’s wrong and unfair to expect them to.
The irony is complelety lost on him. He afforded her all of the latitude that he was not shown by her.
He overlooked her pettiness and thought he had a great wife and marriage. She couldn’t see that she was allowing a glass to symbolize her own self-loathing resentments, and scapegoated her husband instead of taking responsibility for her own emotional well-being. That was allowed to metastasize instead of getting treatment, because the husband couldn’t see the ‘cancer’ in her thinking. (He’s not psychic and doesn’t have x-ray vision—because he’s not super-human, he’s a man).
This marriage was doomed before it started. There was nothing he could’ve done to save it. If it wasn’t the glass by the sink, it would have been something equally petty. His wife’s mind was trained on finding the few examples that fulfill her inner-narrative of inadequacy and feeling unlovable, instead of the hundreds of ways that he obviously loved her. Her narrative was embedded since childhood, and there’s a good chance her mother had similar gripes about the her father, and her father was scapegoated in much the same way for the mother’s emotional well-being.
He didn’t lose his wife to his own insensitivity. He lost it to her obsessive controlling nature (OCD). She’s the one who lost in the end. She threw away an otherwise good marriage over symbolism, not reality.
His ability to share what he’s written demonstrates that he is emotionally self-aware—which didn’t arise after his divorce—making it clear that he was a sensitive, caring provider, and a good husband and father. He will go on to find a deserving woman, and more likely one focused on issues that actually matter.
Whereas, his ex will continue to be miserable in her future relationships, because there will always be a figurative ‘glass by the sink’ when she’s looking for it.
Had he conceded to her about the glass years ago, it would’ve easily been replaced by another symbol of her choosing soon after. And he’d be writing about that one instead.
Happiness is available to him as it always had been, but not her and likely never was.
All of the men he credits for their substantial technological innovations and human advancement all left proverbial ‘glasses by the sink’ in their personal lives. If they had wives who overlooked that—or never saw it in the first place—then they had good marriages. If they had wives that didn’t, then it’s just likely that their contributions to humanity became part of a workaholic lifestyle designed to stay away from home—where they’d have been nitpicked, nagged, and made to feel inferior instead of being appreciated for their being and not ‘doing.’
I hope he sees the irony before he goes on believing he did anything wrong, and seeks professional therapy before becoming involved with a self-ascribed princess who he places on a pedestal for the entirity of his next relationship.
If you gender reversed this article the man would be labeled a controlling emotionally abusive narcissist for criticizing his wife over every little thing — like leaving a glass in the sink — making her feel like she was constantly walking on egg shells at home…
Louis C.K. rightfully points out that “no good marriage ever ended in divorce.”
Sure, it wasn’t ‘about the glass’. The real lesson here is: don’t ever put a ring on it if you know what’s good for you. Marriage does not make people family anymore. It’s just a state of transition with legal and financial consequences.
I love it when lonely men who have had failure after failure in relationships project their pathetic reality onto others. My boyfriend (now fiance) got down on his knee and asked me to be his wife all on his own and is elated that I said yes. When he moves into MY house, he will be making a major upgrade in his household income, living accommodations, neighborhood, dining, and life in general. We are fortunate to have each other. All relationships are different; just because yours have been terrible does not mean that others are.
I think it’s interesting that — with a 1st marriage divorce rate of 40-50% and a second marriage divorce rate of about 60% — that anyone can refer to the previous post as ‘projecting their pathetic reality’ suggesting that divorce is not a common life event for least half the population of the USA (ie: millions and millions of others).
Got to love the children. No idea of reality yet, but they will learn.
He never said his relationship is terrible, I have no idea where you got that from.
Personally,I have a great relationship with my wife. We have been married for almost 10 years now and have two children. I moved half way across the world to a country I had never been to in order to be with her, and I constantly go out of my way to do things for her without her having to ask. It’s not because she “upgraded” my life by making my living conditions better. Quite the contrary, I gave up a lot to be with her, and I am also the sole income/provider for our household, working while living in her country which is foreign to me, and I was/am happy to do it, because I love my wife and the family we have made together.
Despite all this, I have the unbiased, clear eyed view to see that he is right, and I agree with his post (Anonymous).
You come off as having had a nerve rubbed the wrong way by his post, most likely because you know it’s true and resent it.
I see nothing in his comment that suggests him “projecting his pathetic reality onto others.” And, yes, I think that if the blog post was a woman writing about her husband’s insistence about the cup, there would be more of an uproar.
Congratulations on your engagement.
Maybe it is: Don’t get married if you aren’t willing to die to self for the relationship on a regular basis. That is why they call it work. Dying to self is the hardest work.
Well said! The number one thing that I see people do that ends relationships, over anything else you can possibly think of in the world, is being selfish. Which is exactly what dying to self is not. I completely agree with you!
I disagree. As a gay man, I was thinking this would be great for both me and my husband, precisely because (despite the author’s perspective) it transcends gender roles.
I’m grateful for your perspective, Rob. Thank you.
My sentiments exactly: If the relationship in this article was not as gender specific, you’d see that it applies to couples in general. My wife and I have had this discussion before (and came to a similar conclusion i.e. “Someone isn’t listening”).
The post merely points out how similar circumstances are described in articles about heterosexual relationships where fault is assigned according to gender.
It is assumed the wife bears less fault and the husband bears more fault in this particular article. However, reactionary commentary would significantly shift if the genders were reversed.
If the husband divorced the wife over — as the topic suggests — criticisms about not doing the dishes…
I agree, I am the female in our relationship and I would be the one leaving the glass, I don’t as its upsetting to my mail partner. I see this as more a personality traits issue, and each has to know and respect the other.
Gender reversing it wouldn’t make sense. What he’s talking about is the mental miscommunication between men and women so you can’t reverse anything. It’s fair that your opinion is that marriage isn’t for you, but “putting a ring on it” isn’t the problem. It’s a lack of education on how marriages works or a sense of pride when you get married like an, “I got this” feeling. Fights, arguments, and misunderstandings are normal, and its how a couple deals with them that defines what marriage will look for them.
What I’m talking about (partly) is the reactionary commentary would be much different if the article was written from the perspective of a wife who suggested she was divorced because she she didn’t do the dishes often enough…
Spot on, well said
Anonymous EXACTLY!
DW sent this to me yesterday. I was PISSED! I took a xanax and read it again. Now I have spent a couple of hours rewriting it from my male perspective. I will ask her to read the original and then my response. Should be an interesting evening.
After 6 decades I have reasoned this:
Men are born of a woman.
Most men are raised by a women.
Men are taught in school mostly by women.
So if a woman has a problem with a man I wonder who is to blame?
Oh my. I guess you couldn’t ‘hear’ what the author was saying anymore than if your wife said it.
It’s not a gender thing and Matt is sharing something important for men to know. If you are correct, then maybe men should be teachers as well as be partners and co- raise their children.
The problem is you are looking for someone to blame rather than looking for a solution. He is looking for a solution and sharing what he found in his life.
As a woman married for 30yrs (well this December) and the mother of 9 children, I can tell you he hit the nail on the head for many women. We want partners. We want to be heard and to be cared for. It’s not happening.
Yeah, modern women have some problems, but men modern and old have problems too. When we look inward, when we are willing to listen to what others have discovered we can make changes.
You don’t want to, fine. But don’t attack someone who sees something within himself he would like to change to be a better partner.
And it seems odd, that this would bring so much emotion that you needed medication to get through. Usually this is because something hits too close to home.
If this article was written from the perspective of a wife whose husband left because she didn’t do dishes often enough the commentary following the article would be markedly different.
All people have problems. There is not necessarily anything wrong with a spouse who is lazier about household chores than their partner.
However, when that lower participation in household work is perceived as a personal slight — to the point where it adds up to a divorce — there is something necessarily wrong: insecurity, controlling behavior, lack of tolerance.
It is common for people to interpret their own personal insecurities as a fault with others, or to blame others for their own lack of happiness — particularly a significant other, or spouse.
That is not what the post is about. I think many people have misconstrued the message of this post. It is not about men vs women. It is not about dirty dishes or household chores. It’s about communication and empathy.
When your partner expresses a need, being dismissive or belittling the situation does not resolve anything. Every couple has their own version of “dirty dishes”. Perhaps it’s one partner not helping cleaning up after they entertain guests. Perhaps it’s one person does the majority of the child rearing. Over time, one person doesn’t feel valued or appreciated and this erodes the relationship.
Communication is key. It goes both ways, and Matt just noticed it too late. Perhaps if both him and his wife were better at communicating their needs things would have ended differently.
And it seems like your wife was trying to passively communicate something to you.
That’s what I was thinking
That’s what all you guys are doing. It’s boring as hell. This has NOTHING to do with gender other than I just happened to have been the husband in the scenario.
It’s well beyond depressing how big of one-trick ponies you guys are. So worried about whether or not a Y chromosome is present, and so seemingly unconcerned with trying to solve the most prevelant social crisis in the 21st Century.
It’s incredibly disappointing.
Don’t get married! Stop dating women who won’t bow to your every whim! Go be gay, so you can only be with dudes all the time.
I. Don’t. Care.
But stop telling men who want to stay married and not lose their families that the answer is to be misogynists, and that will somehow fix everything.
Maybe while you’re at it, you can backhand all your daughters and tell them to get in the kitchen where those stupid worthless tramps belong.
I’m not telling men to love women.
I’m not telling men to get married.
I’m trying to help men who are married, or want to be, STAY married.
Understanding their wives better will help with that.
I don’t know if you guys are intentionally obtuse for dramatic effect, or if you seriously can’t get it.
Matt do you think there just might be a teeny weeny little reason why some of us are a little upset with with this edition? Are we ALL neanderthal “misogynists”? (use of which term earns you something of a Godwin’s) I have lived a lot longer than you and made my share of mistakes. I own them. Modern women in my experience AS A GROUP will not apologize or accept any responsibility for their actions. You make some good points. But if you do not think the deck is stacked heavily against men in today’s world you need to get out more. That is why you are seeing such a visceral reaction. Rather than get angry at us why not to to understand why many of us feel this way? Here I offer an olive branch. Will you accept ?
“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
― Socrates
“By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you’ll become happy; if you get a bad one, you’ll become a philosopher.”
― Socrates
There seems to be a common theory that by simply altering your own behavior you can somehow prevent a marriage from failing. Time and time again, this sort of thinking is proven false.
A multitude of advice articles on the internet declare you just need to be a little more helpful or respectful or –insert suggested behavior of the moment– but don’t apply in all scenarios. They aren’t necessarily a guidebook for a happy marriage.
For every ‘I could have done more’ story about saving a relationship there is another ‘I did everything I could have and was betrayed’ story.
Also, unless extreme behavior is involved (like physical abuse) it’s rare that any relationship or marriage fails because of one participant’s behavior.
In other words, the behavior of your spouse is not something you can control and it’s not necessarily reasonable or effective to change yourself in order to please a spouse — for men or for women.
There is a significant possibility that a spouse will be unfaithful, or unhappy, and seek divorce regardless of any action taken to prevent that.
Matt, I think that most of the men here DO get what you are saying and are WELL AWARE of misogyny and don’t actually hate women.
We are simply disagreeing with your premise that 1) it is in any way reasonable for that cup left beside the sink to be important to ANYONE and 2) that if you were a woman writing about her perspective… a husband complaining about the cup… then #1 would be very clear!
We ALL know about making sacrifices… we all know about going the extra mile for someone you love and we all know that sometimes it can be at least SOMEWHAT lopsided… c’est la vie.
We just think that there are absurdities that… I’ll say FEW… people should fall for! From what we read in your post, it seems to many of us that your wife was unreasonable and if you divorced, after a time away from your marriage you may come to see that.
Your statement, “… It’s: I’m grateful for another opportunity to demonstrate to my wife that she comes first…” actually CAN be detrimental to your own well-being. Life goes on and another woman COULD actually be better for you in the end. That has just as much validity as anything you had said!
Period.
I take no issue with any part of that.
Please forgive the misogynist crack. Just like you guys don’t know me, I don’t know you. For every respectful guy, there were others using everyone’s favorite vile words toward female commenters, many of which I had to delete.
I read 3,000 comments in the past four days. And it’s all a big blur.
My misogyny crack is reserved exclusively for misogynists. And not you.
Not unlike people debating the merits of a dirty dish, our conversations will be more productive when everyone knows what everyone means.
I’m not convinced any of the male naysayers here have a particularly good handle on what my actual beliefs are, but should anyone want to discuss them at length, point by point, it would be my pleasure to do so.
I’m not brainwashed. I don’t think I’m crazy, but a crazy person probably wouldn’t know. I’m not some beat-down wounded puppy victim (though if you dug enough, you’d find some older posts that probably came off that way.)
I’m just a guy.
There’s nothing particularly noteworthy about me at all. I’m just like a billion other guys walking around.
But I trust my own judgment. And I know I don’t have strongly held beliefs based on nonsense. I think about things. Deeply. Ask many questions. I stay open-minded. I challenge my own beliefs all the time. I never pretend to know anything for sure.
I very much know how much I don’t know.
I believe the things I’m saying. I’m sorry that you guys feel men would be hurt or taken advantage by more people following these suggestions. I’m more than willing to listen to someone try to explain it to me, while I ask questions along the way.
Thank you for the explanation. I do apologize for labeling you and any friends you might have seen comment, as something you are not.
That happened to me 500-ish times in the past few days. I realize how annoying it is.
I made a similar comment earlier. If you reversed the genders in this article, it’d sound almost overtly anti-feminist.
If she left you because of that reason then she isn’t worth having and you got the better deal.
But what you said about her not telling you what she wanted you to do and let you figure it out tells me that there was a lack of communication between both of you.
Couldn’t agree more, True George. The further on I read that article the more I thought “no-one belongs in a relationship that shallow” – it’s not about the glass nor any of the other quasi-psychological bents put on the argument. Marriage is for adults, not for children who need to be validated over every petty action. If no matter what you do or say, the relationship doesn’t become mature and emotionally sound then get out before it destroys you; and it sounds to me as though you were better off out of that one. Stop beating yourself up about it, about how you could have done better. Obviously, so could she; there are two sides to every communication: if you think you weren’t “receiving” what she was saying then my dear chap I can assure you *she* wasn’t “sending” very well, either. It’s not up to either party to be telepathic. Be kind to yourself – it’s done. Stop rehashing what you could-have might-have should-have done better -you did the best you could at the time. Move on. Oh, and I’m a long-time happily-divorced female and intend to remain so.
Finally, a voice of reason. If my wife or I don’t like something, WE TALK ABOUT IT. It’s amazing how much trouble that saves us.
Interesting article.
To all the men out there who feel that its a double standard that a woman says you need to communicate with me more, and then won’t even tell you that she is seriously upset when you don’t wash a glass… I’d offer the following solution.
I used it until the day my wife passed away and we did very well. It’s not a gimmick -although it might seem like one at first.
Every time you do something for the other person you tell them so. They are required to listen to what you did and then say “thank you.” It’s not a competition, you don’t have to match them deed for deed. In fact, it works better if you listen, say thank you, and present whatever you have done at a later time.
That’s it.
I quickly found out all the things she was doing for me that annoyed her – like the glass – and did them myself. At the same time she found out the dozens of little things that I did for her every day that men are not often credited for doing. Bringing the laundry basket upstairs because it’s heavy. Fixing the clogged sink. Cleaning that smelly stuff out of the bottom of the garbage can.
The best part is that we each realized that the other was really trying to make the marriage work. We kept things in balance. And the simple acknowledgement that the things the other person is doing for you are valued helped make everything I did for her, and she did for me worthwhile.
It’s simple, it’s easy. Try it.
ps. For extra credit… Ask her what the one thing she does that she dislikes the most. And do that thing for her. For my wife it was vacuuming. She hated it. So I said, “No problem. I’ll do it.” It wasn’t a big deal for me. I probably didn’t do it as much as she would have, but I did do it and I could tell every time I turned on the vacuum cleaner that I was making her happy.
Thank you so much for sharing this, David.
I don’t really have words. (I despise this garbage phrase we all say to one another that never actually helps, but we keep saying it because it’s all we’ve got): I’m deeply sorry you lost your wife.
And I appreciate very much the perspective and wisdom and practical, actionable suggestions you brought to the conversation. I sure hope they don’t get lost in all the noise.
Thank you for taking the time to read and contribute something valuable and meaningful.
David, this is a great suggestion because it comes from a place of respect and not competition.
I am going to implement this in my home with my sons. It will take some practice so that it is not about one-up-manship, but it is so worth it. I think the key is telling one another “Thank you.” Teaching and practicing gratefullness. Thank you…
I love this
You sound like a wonderful person. Thank you for sharing this with us. I’m sorry you lost your wife. This whole story brings me to think about my husband. Our garage is narrowed by some cabinets he wanted in there so the passenger has to wait for the driver to back the car out. This winter, the weather was really cold and the garage was, too. As I stood there shivering, waiting for him to back out because he had to put his gloves on, his seat belt, and his sunglasses, I thought how much nicer it would be if he just backed out and then put on his items. I’d have to put mine on, too. So, I asked him if he would do that in the future. I was nice about it but then he started telling me how ridiculous it was and how controlling I was being. He said I was only waiting 2 seconds, which is not accurate, but your point in this letter is correct, it is about love and respect. I told him it seemed simple to me and that I didn’t understand why he was angry (he gets angry very easily over simple things). So, I asked a couple of friends about it. In their marriages, they said they would not ask. They would just wait inside until the car was out, and if he had to wait for me, then he’d have to wait. To me, these are all just dumb little games. I’ve never liked playing games. Why can’t people just talk, listen, and care about the other. Again, thank you so much for sharing. You sound like a nice man.
Your friends brought up an excellent point. I was totally feelin’ ya, reading what your experience was/is & very much relating to it! Then = there are many ways to accomplish something. Yes, there are. It sure would be nice if this concept was understood by both parties – that gloves, sunglasses etc can be put on either while sitting in the garage, or sitting in the driveway as a passenger gets in – but if that’s not where they are with their approach to situations, that’s where we can be a shining example. Thank you for the reminder.
My partner and I have been practicing good communication skills since the day we met, and never have I had a more fulfilling relationship. We do the same thing: I tell him when I’ve done something he might not notice on his own, and I thank him when he so much as folds the towels for me unasked or brings home milk, and vice versa. Showing gratitude for the other person in the relationship is so incredibly crucial to having a healthy relationship, and it must go both ways.
In contrast, my previous relationship was with somebody I loved just as much. He also made more money, took me on more trips, and bought me all sorts of nice things. But he never noticed all the thousands of little things I was doing to make his life nicer and easier and more liveable. He was a slob and needed somebody to remind him of things on a daily basis. In three years, he did the laundry exactly once. I would spend hours cleaning because cleaning up after him as well as myself was more like quadruple the work, then he’d come home and graffiti all over my hard work with litter, dirty dishes, clothes, crumbs, toothpaste, etc. I felt like his maid. I didn’t make as much as him, but I also worked, if anything worked harder exactly because I still had further to climb in my career. I was working 60-hour weeks then spending my free time cleaning up after him or cooking while he sat on the sofa and watched games or got to go out with friends. He cared about living in a clean home but didn’t notice when it got dirty and absolutely did not care how much hard work it was or why *I* care about living in a home that doesn’t have cat litter and crumbs sticking to the floor or mountains of dishes in the sink. He cared about HIS comfort but never thought about my own beyond what he could benefit from as well. After so long I gave up and left because I’d already tried everything and there was nothing left to try. I appreciated the nice trips and fancy dinners and always made sure he knew my gratitude, but because I rarely felt appreciated myself beyond decoration, it wasn’t enough. There’s so much more to a relationship than the materialistic. The poorest, humblest couple can be the happiest on earth so long as they fully appreciate each other. The richest couple on earth can be the most miserable if they don’t.
So when a woman mentions that glass by the sink, a man should realize there are a hundred other things that she isn’t mentioning; she’s just pointing out the one she thinks it would be easiest for you to compromise on. Undoubtedly, she’s already compromised in her head on all the others.
Telling her four seconds of your time isn’t worthwhile to make her happy is, in effect, telling her that her happiness doesn’t matter to you unless you are benefiting as well.
“So when a woman mentions that glass by the sink, a man should realize there are a hundred other things that she isn’t mentioning; she’s just pointing out the one she thinks it would be easiest for you to compromise on. Undoubtedly, she’s already compromised in her head on all the others.”
yes
“So when a woman mentions that glass by the sink, a man should realize there are a hundred other things that she isn’t mentioning”
Well… that’s YOUR story and YOUR scenario.
“Telling her four seconds of your time isn’t worthwhile to make her happy is, in effect, telling her that her happiness doesn’t matter to you unless you are benefiting as well.”
I kind of get a bit tired of that argument.
It is MORE THAN REASONABLE that a couple should aim to be at least close to equitable. If you don’t think so then you are simply selfish!
PS… cjb… a hundred other things that are just as silly and just as unreasonable don’t add up to being reasonable, but instead, add up to a good reason to leave. 🙂 (MY Scenario)
Just curious – in your situation, did both you and your wife work outside the home? I often see men referring to household chores as their wives’ work when many if not most of those women have full-time jobs. If you’re both working outside the home, chores, cooking, errands, childcare, etc., are BOTH of your jobs.
Please take it easy on David! I think he offered some exceptional, practical advice and I really appreciated it since so many people want to have Battle-of-the-Sexes fights like children.
I appreciate you reading, and I appreciate you pointing out in an earlier comment that: Yes, some people actually have excellent relationships.
It’s so funny all the people who act like it never happens because science somehow mandates that long-term monogamy and daily displays of sacrifice are somehow totally impossible.
Best wishes for your pending nuptials, Sarah.
I love this comment and this perspective! I tell my husband what I’ve gotten done around the house, not even because I would like a “thank you,” but just so he knows those things no longer need to be done. I appreciate when he tells me what he’s about to work on or what he’s recently completed so I’m aware of what I don’t need to do. Or so I’m aware that he’s being similarly productive while I am. And he also takes on my two least-favorite chores whenever I ask: vacuuming and changing our sheets. 🙂
He’s very logical and doesn’t always understand my emotional responses, but he does well if I break them down for him. For example, since I happily do most of the dishes, I’ve pointed out to him that if feels like he doesn’t respect my time or labor when he unnecessarily uses a lot of dishes, or when he doesn’t put water in dishes to soak. He’s getting better at it, but it helped that I communicated my feelings along with practical action.
(For the record, I don’t think my example above is a gendered thing, just a “people are different” thing. Learning how your partner communicates, and needs you to communicate, is key!)
Sucha good post – thank you for sharing, David.
Love this!
This beautiful recounting really got the idea of what (for me) the article was saying. To be giving. I as a woman have been on both ends of this where I took too much and gave too much and both time did it blew up. Both partners have to give.
I love how the author doesn’t blame his former spouse for what problems she contributed to. He acknowledges where he went wrong and doesn’t blame her for what she contributed to fights or problems. She is a part of a relationship too. An imperfect human being but he can only be accountable for what he could do.
She didn’t communicate why the glass should be in the dishwasher and this comes off to many as an order. Women are notorious for being cryptic and expect the reasoning to be obvious.
Taking gender out though as individuals we understand things differently from our partners because of various factors, from up-bringing, politics, education experiences ect. So wife, husband, common law, neighbour, friend, mother father. This applies to all relationships we hold close to our hearts.
David… sounds good! But I’m not sure how it really has anything to do with many people’s complaints about Matt’s story about the glass. Matt seems to be fine with a hugely lopsided relationship. Many of us simply do not think that that makes for happiness all around. Instead it sets one up for deeper, hidden resentments that are dangerous to one’s health.
C’mon now. “Hugely lopsided”? There is ZERO evidence you can demonstrate that unless you want to guess what I meant by one sentence without ALSO reading every sentence on this blog and having context.
I do not believe in inequity.
It’s IMPOSSIBLE to have a lasting marriage with inequity.
I merely encourage men to lead. To “be the bigger person” in little-kid-fight terms.
Give to get. Lead by example. Do the right thing even when it’s inconvenient.
Not forever. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.
In an ideal world, everyone would have this stuff figured out LONG before they are married.
We have all the evidence in the world that’s not what happens. So the conversion shifts to saving existing marriages.
I’m asking husbands to set the tone and lead by example and choose to put his marriage ahead of selfish interests.
It’s not an easy thing demonstrating the difference between unselfishness and sacrificing one’s own happiness to be a patsy in an imbalanced marriage.
I just trust myself to know the difference when I see it.
I think if we compare notes, you’ll find my Bullshit Detector to be solid and reliable.
“And Never the Twain Shall Meet”!
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My wife has been looking for this pose for days so I can read it, I have to say reading the beginning of the post i was like “this shit was STUPID” but by the end of the post I stated to understand that I can take my wife for granted and not do my best to be a great Husband. But I’m sure that will wear off by the end of the week and I’ll be back to the same old Husband..
Thank you for the honest comment.
I didn’t know this was going to be popular. I just wrote this the way I always write everything. Long and tedious and meandering.
I think a lot of people gave up on it in the first third, and then ignorantly spouted off about it in the comments.
Thank you for not being one of them.
Far be it from me to tell you how to live. I’m just a nobody and will never claim to be otherwise.
But if you can find something every day that your wife is doing, and say “Thank you” and REALLY mean it–like really feel how much better your life is because that thing is being done for you, so you can authentically say it in a way she believes?–you won’t be taking her or your marriage for granted at all.
And just maybe by doing so, she’ll stop doing something things you don’t like, and start doing more of the things you do like.
And maybe after that, you’ll think it’s EASY as hell to make your wife happy, and maybe you’ll consider your marriage one of the most important and awesome things in your life.
And then maybe you have an amazing life. The one you dreamed about when you were a kid.
And all you had to say was “thank you.” And mean it.
I mean it: Thank you. I wish you well.
That’s nice. What is your wife doing to try to understand you or not take you for granted?
This hands down is the best article on love I have ever read, like in my whole life. It is the best article I have ever read that explains without a doubt the mind of majority women walking this planet. And if guys could truly grasps this, well for most women like me they would have the world at their feet with no complaints with a simple snap of a finger. Seriously it’s a good read!
And yet the goal posts move.
Let’s say that you anticipate your wife’s needs regarding caring for the household, and not only do you put your dishes directly into the dishwasher, you also see -her- dishes by the sink and put them into the dishwasher as well. And the kids’ dishes. And the cats’ bowls.
And yes, you even angled the mugs the right way so that when the cycle ends there won’t be any annoying puddles of water collecting in the upturned bottoms of the mugs.
And yes, you rinsed all the grime off the dishes beforehand, even though you geeked out the chemistry behind how dishwasher detergent surfactants work, and learned that modern dishwasher technology long ago rendered the pre-rinse obsolete. No dice, Einstein. She wants the dishes clean before they go into the dishwasher. At this point you blink several times in lieu of attempting to make your point, because you know from experience not to argue because when you say “But honey…” she responds with “RELEASE THE KRAKEN.”
You even clipped coupons for the detergent and waited to stock up until it was on sale, so you could get a bunch of $5.99 bags of the good detergent for $1.99.
Sorry, sucker. You’re still the bad guy.
First, you’re the bad guy because you put her dish in the dishwasher too soon and she might not have been done with it, even though a colony of houseflies was doing a synchronized swimming routine in the excess gravy.
And you’re also the bad guy because you put housekeeping ahead of the kids.
Fair enough, you think on the second point. Maybe you were a little OCD about it. So the next day, you let the dirty dishes wait a half hour so you can have a catch with your kids.
Returning to the house, you will be berated for letting the kitchen get so filthy.
And then your dad will tell you “This is why I made sure to buy a house near a bar.”
Exactly, and have you read all the posts (lists) women are putting out of how their ideal man MUST be/have/do. Geez…
“Let’s say that you anticipate your wife’s needs…” Clearly you’re not understanding. Respecting someone does NOT mean ‘anticipating their needs’. Beyond that, ANY partnership should start with mutual respect, be it employment, marriage, room mates, friendships… If all relationships don’t start there than there is no valid relationship from the get-go and whatever it is you think you have going on WILL end.
Nice ‘job’ Matt. VERY well said/written. Thank you.
This is very interesting. You are doing 200% of the work and your wife is doing zero. Why did you marry a person who can’t be a partner, but only a shrew? Did you have an arranged marriage, where you met her after the I Dos and the veil was lifted?
Sorry I left the impression she’s not doing the work – she most certainly is putting in her 200% and then some. There’s more to keeping a household humming than the dishes.
What each partner needs to remember is four words:
His/her way works, too.
The whole time I’m reading this I’m thinking she sounds unreasonable and that SHE’S the one who doesn’t get it. I need to ponder this and see her side, because I don’t get it.
I’ve tried really hard to see this from the woman’s perspective but if her feelings of respect, importance, consideration and love can be crushed by a water glass being left out, she needs help, and lots of it.
He states that his wife felt like she had to “be his mother,” so the glass by the sink simply becomes the focal point for the greater issue of communication and respect. From what he has implied, there were other problems, but leaving a glass out was the smallest way to represent the issue for both parties.
In my experience, that’s how most major arguments are: petty on the surface, massive underneath.
Exaclty, she felt she has to control her husband. Her “excuse” is that he’s not doing everything how she would want it, and from that it is “making her feel like she’ s his mom.” Of course, there’s an alternate solution. She can quit being a controlling shrew.
Wow, missed the point much?
Absolutely!
Ignore the haters Matt.
This is another one of your incredibly awesome article that puts into words what so many of us wish we could. Reading your letters to Shitty Husbands for the first time last Spring was one of the most “feelings-turned-into-actual-words” experiences I have ever have.
In many ways you are my voice on these topics and the voice of so many women.
Keep writing…ignore the morons, sadly they are everywhere!
Get that Matt, you are the “voice of women”. If you keep flagellating yourself enough you might get to be a woman’s servant again soon. Congrats!
Thank you for this article! I definitely see bits and pieces of what’s happening here in my own relationship!
I’m grateful for seeing both sides of the “argument” and I hope this small piece of advice will help my fiancee and I! Communication is important! (Also, fantastic title- I was thinking this might be click-bait, but was thoroughly surprised!)
My wife sent me this link JUST AFTER WE HAD THE SAME ARGUMENT!! And you’re totally right – it’s not about the sink or the trash or whatever seemingly meaningless, petty, insignificant minutiae that just drives her batty. It’s about respect, love, appreciation and the importance of placing what is important to her before yourself. Part of love is doing the things that drive you nuts because she feels they are NON-NEGOTIABLE. Hopefully, over time, doing them will drive you less nuts and become rote (maybe even enjoyable).
I really appreciate this more so because its coming from a males perspective. a lot of times its never about the glass its always deeper ,men just try even though its impossible to understand us and promise well love you forever.
I’m sorry…I’m really trying hard to see this from the woman’s point of view, but I keep coming back to one thing; if your feelings of being respected, loved, valued, heard, all that can be completely obliterated by something as simple as leaving a glass sit out, you need therapy.
This article touches on many important and valuable aspects of married life. Of course, taking your partners wishes, feelings, values and desires seriously is huge. But you also need to recognize that while maybe Thing A isn’t being done exactly how you want it, but what about Thing B, C, or D? Are there not other ways your partner is showing his love and respect for you? Does is have to be exactly to your specifications or else it’s no good?
Seriously, if a water glass sitting out is a soul crushing journey into pain. sorrow and heartbreak, get help.
Yep, you got it. And the thing here that also needs to be repeated – he didn’t know! He was in a no-win situation.
This is clearly one of the most popular articles ever written FOR WIVES.
I think this is helpful for me and many men because it describes some of our wives motivations.
I think many men read this and think. NOT WORTH IT.
I also wonder how many wives will tame their husbands this way and then run off with another man who is not a quisling pansy. I think many women want a man to be just like them and when they succeed they like him more but also are no longer attracted to him.
I also wonder if perhaps the truth behind this isn’t that wives make unreasonable demands, and it’s not about the detail but that by complying with what is unreasonable, we show that we love them and care for them enough to do unreasonable things for them.
I guess understanding others is always fruitful and this article has brought about a lot of thinking and conversations and that is always a good thing.
As the saying goes, women: can’t live with em, can’t live without em. What’s a man to do?
“Most women set out to change a man, and then once they’ve changed him they don’t like him.” – Marlene Dietrich.
The real problem today is that most women are simply unhappy and dissatisfied people, something feminism has revved up. They marry thinking their husbands will “complete them” or make them happy. And when he doesn’t they are resentful.
There is another saying, “A woman marries a man expecting him to change, and a man marries a woman expecting her to not change, and they are both disappointed.”
” most women are simply unhappy and dissatisfied people” – that’s a very broad statement and says more about you than about women. If you are looking at all women to be disappointed or unhappy or dissatisfied, then you would never feel you are part of a reason why a woman might be happy or satisfied and feel complete. Therefore, in your mind, there’s no reason to try. If that is your personal philosophy, then fine. But the author here is sharing his POV for men who do want their women to be happy, satisfied, replete. If this article doesn’t appeal to you, why try to direct people the other way?
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Whenever I read comments on articles like this I am constantly thinking that a lot of people are not getting the point. Matt wrote an article about one particular marriage problem, tomorrow he might write another article about an entirely different problem. While reading this, I never thought the point was Men=Bad, Women = Good. Seems to me he just wanted to write from one perspective. By saying that men miss things that are important to their wives he is NOT saying that women don’t miss things too, or that men have no right to be respected for their input to the household. Matt’s point is simply that what men and women think of as “important” and “respectful/disrespectful” may be very different from each other, and we all need to pay closer attention.
Thank you, Matt, for this brutal honesty that came from a hard lesson learned. I am almost divorced. I didn’t leave. I felt that working toward a great marriage was worth repeating this same message over and over again. But thank you for letting me know that I wasn’t crazy. That wanting my boys to understand that even if it is not important to us, and never will be in a practical sense, if it is important to the people that we love, it needs to be important to us. That we will lay ourselves aside to put them first. This has nothing to do with not having our needs met also (hence, David’s really great comment!), or being a doormat, or not discussing what could possibly be unrealistic expectations. This is about laying aside being right even to ensure that those we love know that we love them because we take the time to find out why something is important to them.
That is exactly how it feels: if something as easy as placing the glass into the dishwasher that is two inches further to the left of the sink is too hard for you, how could I possibly count on you for something bigger? It is so important to be faithful in the little things.
And I can honestly tell you: I KNOW that I am guilty of the same thing. But I know that I tried. And I stayed. And I continue to try to grow and learn and do better.
Thanks for sharing…
Tiffany, is this “working it out” about you making sure he knows what you need and exactly how, or are you working on it also?
> if something as easy as placing the glass into the dishwasher that is two inches further to the left of the sink is too hard for you, how could I possibly count on you for something bigger?
It’s not hard; it’s insignificant and not worth doing (absent its importance to you, I mean). So it is very very very very very wrong to extrapolate from the cup to a bigger thing. The bigger thing may actually be an important thing and the guy might very well take care of it.
Thank you for articulating this so well. It’s not the in and of itself, it’s our perception of the . It’s respecting your partner’s feelings. It might seem crazy, but seriously: if someone has to ask over, and over, and over, and over, ad nauseum for their partner do something, it chips away the foundation of love, respect, and care. Little by little, the relationship erodes. It doesn’t matter what it is. It could be either person feeling unappreciated or disrespected. Pay close attention to the , because they’re more significant than you think.
It’s why, when my boyfriend texted me last night and said that he was coming over to my place to make dinner before I get home from work (it’s steak, and I work 12 hour days during the week), AND that he’d pick up dishwasher detergent on his way, I was completely thrilled. It shouldn’t be a big deal, but I didn’t ask him to do any of this, he’s just going to do it. It’s awesome!
Oops–I put brackets around a word and it ended up omitting it in the comment. Here’s what it’s supposed to say: “Thank you for articulating this so well. It’s not the THING in and of itself, it’s our perception of the THING, and now it’s dealt with. It’s respecting your partner’s feelings. It might seem crazy, but seriously: if someone has to ask over, and over, and over, and over, ad nauseum for their partner do something, it chips away the foundation of love, respect, and care. Little by little, the relationship erodes. It doesn’t matter what it is. It could be either person feeling unappreciated or disrespected. Pay close attention to the THINGS, because they’re more significant than you think.”
Amazing how many people don’t get this article even after the author spells it out repeatedly. But there is something he did leave out.
He could only imagine putting the cups away when guests were coming over because then they would see them. What about his wife seeing them? She didn’t want to look at his dirty dishes either. Did she not matter as much as the guests?
I left a man who was an incurable slob. It was much more than just a few cups. But all of it is on the same spectrum. We all have our thresholds for comfort around mess, and either we learn to compromise with our partners or we just can’t live together happily.
If your partner makes it clear that something bothers them, and you can do something about it, just try. Don’t make it a power struggle. It’s why they’re called PARTNERSHIPS. We’re not living alone anymore, we have to try to make another person’s life better, not inflict our bad habits on them so they now have to live every day dealing with our shit. You might be surprised to find out is just isn’t worth it to them.
With all due respect Rose, how many things do you think you did that irritated him but he let it slide?
Substitute leaving the glass by the sink with….
~ using your spouses razor after repeated requests not to
~ starting the car with the lights on after repeated requests not to
~ buying the wrong brand of beer after repeated requests for a different brand
~ filling the car with the wrong grade of gas after repeated requests for the correct grade
I could go on, but you get the point. Anything that is requested by one spouse should be honored by the other. It is that simple…..
Kind of.
What if your spouse wants to set the thermostat at 68, but you can’t sleep at that temperature, so you want it at 75? It’s not really reasonable to just capitulate and lose a bunch of sleep.
In a healthy marriage, you often shouldn’t just capitulate to your spouse’s desires. You should communicate and negotiate a compromise that you are both satisfied with. These negotiations will go pretty smoothly if both of you have each other’s best interests in mind.
The article makes it sound like the husband should have simply capitulated. But he had a perfectly legitimate reason for leaving out the dish. (And it’s worth noting that in your examples, the “offending” spouse probably does NOT have good reasons for repeatedly doing things the “wrong” way–so I don’t think they are parallel examples.) Based on what we can read in this essay, there there was no negotiation or communication. Just awful, tedious bickering.
Yep, you nailed it.
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This is such a great article and 100% on point. I sent it to my husband so he may understand me a bit better.
http://www.sunnyskyz.com/blog/610/I-Wasn-t-Treating-My-Husband-Fairly-And-It-Wasn-t-Fair
@joeblow: the article you linked to depicts such a similar lesson, it is hard to believe you don’t see it! She realized that things are not so important to her husband, and for his (and their marriage’s) sake, decided to unclench. To put his need to not concentrate on details before her need to. Where as this article also notices an unmet need and suggests that for love’s sake, a change that won’t take much effort to make. And that is just it- when you really love someone, you put their needs first. When you enter into a marriage with someone that claims to love you too, you expect them to also put your needs first. At least sometimes.
Your spite against making an effort and it not being reciprocated is just that: your spite. A lot of times these realizations help people. Advising people not to take notice or make changes because it won’t work all of the time is an extension of the problems within couples… ‘I tried, she didn’t, women are horrible’ or ‘I tried, he cheated, all men are horrible’. It doesn’t help anyone to harbor those feelings- not even you!
This is honestly the BEST article I’ve ever read about the typical marriage failure. It’s refreshing that a man wrote and finally understands where most women are coming from. As a feminist, mother of 8 boys, and married woman who is the main income provider, it is most frustrating to feel like the mother of your spouse and even worse to feel like you’re constantly complaining about stupid shit. Men seem to get lazier as time progresses, or maybe their interests are simply more selfish these days? For instance my husband will work on his car all day but it won’t occur to him to mow the lawn around it unless I request it. Many things like these tend to pile up and then a bullshit argument about a stupid glass (as an example) would send everything over the edge, causing him to shut down and not truly hear what I’m saying is my problem. No man or woman is perfect but surely as grown adults we are all able to take a simple look around and figure out what needs to be done without one partner directing. Mutual respect and appreciate is of utmost importance, without these things the marriage will fail eventually.
The problem is that if a glass left on the countertop, whether carelessly or intentionally (but not maliciously), can become a symbol of not caring about the partner, then ANYTHING can become a symbol of not caring. Thus in order to show that you care you have to do everything right, exactly the way your partner wants it. That’s not love or a quality relationship. That’s one partner’s didactic control over another.
Not to say we shouldn’t make sacrifices, compromises, and come to a mutual agreement on activities and behavior we disagree on. Communication is important. And it doesn’t always have to be this-for-that to establish some kind of totally equal distribution of tasks. It’s about understanding what’s important to each other, what’s needed to maintain a happy home and happy partner, and taking the necessary steps to make sure that those needs are met.
Every home has its systems to keep things flowing. Dirty laundry is put in the basket, washed in the machine, dried, folded, returned to the owner. Dirty dishes are put in the dishwasher, washed in the machine, dried, returned to their home. Rubbish and recycling materiel is put in the appropriate bin inside and taken to the outside bin when full.
If you love and respect your partner, you choose to fit in with the system. If you choose yourself above the system, after she has asked thousands of times, you’re telling her she doesn’t matter. She’s not as important as you. Multiple times a day, everyday.
I can’t think of one thing my husband has asked of me that I don’t do. Not because I’m perfect, but because I try to convey how I feel through how I behave.
I really love this article, the only thing it misses I think is the subliminal thought that someone else will pick up for you. Sure, you’ll get the glass when you’re ready, but you’re not intending to. You know she will just do it, and that’s what gets me most of all. It’s not laziness, or forgetfulness, or any of those excuses I’d been thinking.
It’s repeatedly telling me I’m not worth the miniscule effort of putting a dish where it goes.
All of the comments from women on here about how this article gets everything right. I wonder if he had wrote this with the roles reversed where the man has been asking her to do something and she never does it, would all of you still think this article is so wonderful? I highly doubt it
You’re probably right, John.
But sadly, even if men are only 20 percent responsible for our greater-than 50-percent divorce rate, would you believe we are somehow exempt from trying to do better?
I’m so confused about all of this. Why the inclination to blame everyone else?
Just be the best possible you and not worry about what other people are doing.
I control me. I am responsible for me. Where I am in my life today is mostly due to all of my choices.
When you do that, John, we don’t have to be victims anymore. We can be the guys who get shit done.
What about that sucks so much for everyone, I wonder?
🙂 thank you
Because finger-pointing is easier. Because people want “fairness”. Because when a man or a woman feels (wrongly or rightly) that they are being given a share of the responsibility that they don’t agree with, they will try to pass some of that unwanted responsibility to the other person. Because they genuinely believe that they can’t fix the problem on their own, that they feel the problem is interdependent with the other.
And what if wife who likes dishes not left in the sink under any circumstances is hypocritical and only deals with her own said dirty dishes when it’s convenient for her? For me, this hits home, but it’s not just about dirty dishes; it’s about a person who has double standards. I’ve often thought the problems were just with me, but I’ve discovered otherwise.
I guess people don’t really understand symbols or metaphors. I bring up seemingly “little things” with my husband once I realize they’re a pattern of a bigger problem.
For example, we recently disagreed on what to do with my old smart phone case. He wanted to throw it away, and I suggested offering it as an extra if someone bought my old smart phone. Instead of taking the time to tell me WHY he thought we should throw it away, he kept saying over and over, “No one wants to buy an pink case.” We went back and forth for five minutes until he finally bothered to tell me the actual reason he wanted to throw it away. Once he finally told me the two real reasons he wanted to throw it away, I agreed with him. And then I was frustrated that he refused to give those reasons until I got upset with him.
Why was this minor disagreement an issue? Because he has a pattern of assuming he’s always right when we disagree and not bothering to share his full reasoning of why he’s right. Considering he’s always willing to lay out a reasonable argument when he disagrees with someone else, I feel like he’s disrespecting me by not giving me the same courtesy. Even though this habit has only been over minor disagreements, I wanted to stop this behavior before it became an issue over a larger discussion.
People care about different things. People communicate differently. This isn’t a “husband vs. wives” issue. This is about learning to communicate with your spouse, who might communicate differently than you do. This is about trusting your spouse’s intentions and motivations, even if you disagree with your spouse’s actions, and learning to explain why those actions matter to you. My husband and I have BOTH modified our habits to appease each other. I don’t leave stuff in the car because it drives him crazy. He soaks his dishes because I hate having to scrub them. Marriage is about teamwork, not about winning.
This is a really great blog post. Thank you for sharing it.
The underlying reason for WHY people get into a conflict vs the actual topic is more than likely ALWAYS the reason, first and foremost. People need to learn to communicate – to check in with their feelings and dig deeper to understand what is motivating them to participate in the conflict. It takes patience and practice. And the ability to be humble.
I am a Woman and am the one that leaves the glass or plate by the dishwasher. Our marriage has almost broken up twice because of this. We have had big arguments and talks about it, and both of us have come to the conclusion that I make an effort to put my stuff in the dishwasher and that He is not going to sweat the small stuff any more. That the bigger picture is that we love each other and have two great kids, and to break up over something so easy to fix is just ridiculous.
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I never understood the concept of leaving a glass by the sink in the first place. If you “may” use it later, just leave it by wherever you’re at. If you put something by the sink, spend the 30 seconds and just wash the friggin’ thing. Then you can use it later, knowing that it’s already cleaned.
We have a window ledge above the sink for just this purpose. My glass is there – his glass is there .. unless he puts it by the sink with the other dirty dishes that need to go into the dishwasher & it becomes confusing to know if he’s done with it or didn’t put it on the ledge (RIGHT above where he left it on the counter.) IMO, it’s about prioritizing & invalidating a person ~ the underlying message. Both parties need to look at where they are doing this.
I think the article has a lot of great points but is fundamentally flawed.
Why this article misrepresents a good marriage.
1. It makes divorce an option.
2. Actions are determined by serving another person rather than serving God. When serving God, God uses that service to distribute to everyone else.
3. The argument fundamentally undermines itself as it can equally and oppositely be applied: “He divorced me because I would not stop nagging about the glass by the sink.”
My issue here is not the idea that we should be better spouses (of course we should), but that somehow expecting someone else to sacrifice for ourselves is not biblically sound.
Jesus does not call for us to expect change in another but to make change in ourselves. Our focus should be on self and showing grace and love to others… it is through this that both we become closer to God and how we can best demonstrate to others our walk with Christ. It is through this walk that God can best use us.
Equally important to note is that Jesus does not promise happiness in the perspective of life on this earth but rather guarantees sacrifice and suffering for those who pick up their cross to follow him. The biggest question to ask oneself is, ‘Can we as Christ followers welcome and find joy in our suffrage?’ This is why people who are in perilous circumstances can often have the brightest outlook on life, it is not because they are “getting what they need” but rather because they are choosing to welcome the struggle so that they can become more Christ-like.
Here is how I might have written the article…
I am happier married because I do not complain about the toothpaste being squeezed from the top.
I have the innate desire to squeeze every last drop out of the toothpaste tube. Maybe it is because I am tight on money…maybe I am just obsessive-compulsive… maybe I am just dumb. Either way, it drives me nuts when my wife squeezes the toothpaste from the top.
I actually think it is the multitude of so many of these types of little idiosyncrasies that so often accumulate and drive marriages down the road to divorce. But my wife and I are stuck together for the long haul because we made a covenant in our marriage to God and to each other. So while sometimes we fight (and sometimes we fight loud and bad) in the end, we deeply love each other and have a marriage that will end when one of us dies (no, that is not a suggestion honey) as divorce is not an option.
So why does the toothpaste matter… it matters to me because it gets on my nerves. But ultimately, it matters not because I need to change my wife (it does not bother her one bit) but rather it matters because it is an opportunity for me to take this minor (some might call it insignificant) suffering and give it up to God. To know that the reason it bothers me so much is not because she is doing something wrong but rather I am making the situation about me. I have decided that I am what is important and the world should bend to my desires. But it is not about me, as a Christ-follower I have declared that it is about Him (God). It is about His desires for me, and I firmly believe that He desires me to serve others… starting with my wife.
So do I nag and complain to my wife about the severe violation she is making with the toothpaste tube every time she brushes her teeth? I try not to. On rare occasions I fail, but usually I just re-squeeze from the bottom up, set it back on the shelf and move on with my day.
You see, people move through life doing things that they do not realize are “violations” to other people’s beliefs and understandings… some people are even intentional with their “violations”. As Christ followers we are called to shoulder these violations and react with grace. To take the perspective of Jesus, to walk the extra mile, turn the other cheek. How different would this world be if we all turned the other cheek and sacrificed more than we were asked to?
So it is not up to me to expect change in another but rather to unconditionally love others. Not expect someone else to graciously give up their perspective but for me to show them grace when their perspectives do not align with mine.
I will end with this… it is easy to write what I have written but takes a life time of effort and intention to live it out. I am a work in progress and have a long way to go.
For me, the “hurt” feelings are related to being invalidated by the “dishes in the sink”. The husband thinks very little of providing a task for the wife and she is wondering how she signed on for such a role in life. It’s belittling, demeaning – hurtful because of that. He may have asked for things to be done a certain way b/c he tends to be in charge of caring for those tasks – she may respect his wishes and doesn’t create more work for him in doing so. In reverse – if he leaves things around while she has wishes for things not to be left around, the person more than likely to tend to those things will be her. His not doing so basically says “I truly don’t care about your wishes, the Feng Shui of our space or any of that b/c I’m doing more important things.” This approach prioritizes her.
Hmmm. You know, it’s not often I come across a piece so subversively feministic. I had to do a double, or even triple-take in this case. Normally I can pick them out with a quick skim or first read. I read quite a bit before replying, I mean after all there’s 2400+ replies and what’s a single opinion a midst all that? Why even bother writing a reply, much less reading all your ‘open letters’ and various previous entries? Because someone needs to stand up against pure BS like this.
Let’s scroll back a hundred years when we had actual values and marriage meant something, not to be dismissed with the strike of a gavel and a couple of signatures. Let’s meet Henry and his wife Sarah.
It’s 7pm and Henry is coming home from the field. He’s been out there all day cutting timber so they can repair the pig pen that was damaged when the bear broke in last week. See, without pigs there’s no salt pork and without salt pork next winter may not be survivable. So he has blisters, his hand is swollen where something venomous bit him, and he just wants to get inside and rest.
So Henry gets inside and takes off his boots, leaving them by the kitchen door like he always does. Why? Because it’s easier to put them on there when he has to shovel the stove ashes out around the back rather than walk to the front of the house to get his boots. Sarah hates that. She’s never asked him to put his boots out front, she shouldn’t have to tell him. She idly mentions how she’d like the cabin to be kept tidy while staring at Henry’s boots but really never communicates to him she wants them out of the house. After all she’s spent all day caring for their six children, washing muddy clothes, trying to fix the broken spindle, can beans, cure the salt pork…oh wait, the bear fouled that up by breaking the fence and letting them escape after eating one. One less chore to do in her multitude of arduous, tedious, and quite simply hazardous list of things one must do to survive.
Sarah is tired of those boots there every day. She hates it when Henry makes the hundred mile horse ride three towns over every July to see the ‘moving picture contraption’ at the circus there. She thinks such a trip is silly and he could be here that day with his family instead. This has gone on year after year, day after day…sure Henry works hard. He’s an honest man and provides for his family. He loves Sarah, he’s even thoughtful. He brings her flowers from the field every day and even a pretty new bonnet or brooch when he comes back from his weekly trip to the trading post. But Henry leaves his boots by the kitchen door. Every….day.
Well folks, Sarah has had enough. As a strong independent womyn she realizes she isn’t being validated in this marriage like she wants to be and is being held back by Henry’s lack of respect for her feelings. Sure he’s never struck her or their children, slept with Claire behind her back (even tho she’s tried multiple times to weasel her way into his room during his stay at the circus town’s inn) and her even killed that bear making it safe for their children to play outside.
But leaving his boots in the kitchen… (and wiping his hands on his clean hankerchief like she’s told him many times not to do) terrifies Sarah. She’s lonely afraid, and feels submissive to Henry’s oppresi
Alright, I can’t write anymore of that crap. I don’t know how Matt was able to fill letters upon letters with it because it’s apologetic, enabling, drivel. Look, whoever you’re talking about (and I’m almost positive it’s a made up situation) married the wrong girl. They grabbed a book off the shelf because it had a shiny cover but didn’t check out the Amazon reviews first. Watching the Masters year after year yet she never sat down with them or took an interest in it? She didn’t even attempt to understand his passion for the hobby, and instead would try and pull him away from it? The first year of dating would have revealed that conflict of interest. And here you are defending actions such as those and in doing so you’re trivializing your/men’s actions, needs, and equality in the marriage.
Let’s slam right into it the meat of things.
SAFETY. Not feeling safe is when your husband is passed on the couch while his five drunken poker buddies corner you in the kitchen, feeling you up all night.
TRUST. Lack of trust is when you dread answering the phone because you’re afraid it’ll be yet another loan shark threatening your husband, you, or your family because of unpaid gambling debts. MORE unpaid gambling debts.
RESPECT. Lack of respect is when your husband doesn’t step up when his biker buddies call you a fine piece of ass or ‘that bitch’ when you ask them to get their feet off the table.
APPRECIATION. Not being appreciated is when your husband takes your paycheck and snorts it away on coke, pays off his meth dealer, or stuff its down a dancer’s g-string instead of going out and looking for a job like he promised.
There are millions of women out there with husbands like this. Millions of them that would throw themselves at the feet of a man who left TWENTY glasses by the sink just because he doesn’t beat her when he gets home from work. You mention appreciation and respect but it works both ways.
Little things, and they are just that, like not remembering to park the car on the east side of the house or leaving a glass by the sink are by no means justifications for breaking an oath to God himself and leaving your children. Does she (or he) believe there’s nothing they do to irritate their partner in return? They’re so perfect? Pull the plank from your own eye before removing the splinter from another’s, or so the saying goes. To suggest one’s love can be diminished by such trivial instances of human nature means there was none to begin with.
Marriage works because each one of you puts the other first so that you’re BOTH first. The husband opens the door for his wife. The wife puts her husband’s shoes outside. He surprises her with movie tickets one day. She dusts off his father’s fishing trophy she found in the attic. He vaccums the carport and cleans her car. She records that upcoming tv series he was talking about but forget it was coming on. She still hasn’t returned the boxes of books sitting in the garage to her brother…but he moves them aside when he needs to get to the lawnmower. He keeps leaving his glass by the sink instead of putting it away….but she puts it in the dishwasher. And NEITHER ONE OF THEM LOSE A SINGLE BIT OF LOVE, RESPECT, OR ADMIRATION FOR THE OTHER.
I don’t know what’s worse, Matt’s incessant need to lambaste a husband’s role and diminished equality in the marriage or the imbeciles in the replies here who are eating it up. Most of you have it so good being married you can’t recognize real hardships and create ones out of self importance. And those of you who have it bad, and I mean stabbed, restraining order, drive-by bad, are disgusted by a woman OR man who would leave their partner because of something they could easily live with.
Matt, your entire blog reeks of feminism. You sound like a liberal tool.
Husbands, treat your wives with respect and love them.
Wives, it’s just a glass by the sink.
The fact that you equate feminism (“reeks of feminism”) with a blanket bad thing is a red flag. I hope to communicate to you that you’ve gone off a deep end here without noticing.
If this wasn’t so well-written, I’d be a lot more annoyed.
Excellent job.
What’s so ironic about this, is that you say all of the same things I say about marriage: To stay married, a husband gives more to his wife than he takes for himself; AND she does the same in return.
Sustainability is impossible without it.
I always liked the steam engine analogy: A marriage moves along like a steam engine. It requires CONSTANT, steady feeding. You shovel coal. The husband and wife together. Shoveling and shoveling as one. Sometimes, because someone gets sick, or because their attention must be elsewhere, or because one of their parents or best friends died, they need to stop shoveling for a while.
In order to keep the engine firing, the partner must keep shoveling, sacrificing and giving more than his/her fair share to ensure the train doesn’t grind to a halt.
If the felled partner doesn’t get back in there at some point, the shoveling partner will run out of energy and collapse. And then, the train will stop.
One person can shovel alone for a while. Two people can shovel together and alternately FOREVER. It simply requires the right amount of sacrifice, will and communication necessary to accomplish it.
You make the same mistake so many other half-cocked Red Pill disciples and lazy asshole husbands have: That this is somehow me dressing down men, and pretending women never do anything wrong.
I resent the hell out of it. And your “liberal tool” name calling (which is both immature AND inaccurate) is doing little to enhance the clout of conservative thinkers.
If you want to start writing posts for women, by all means, knock yourself out. I write for dudes because that’s what I know.
I’m writing for men who don’t understand why his marriage is suffering. He’s not trying to be a dick. So he doesn’t understand why she seems unhappy and resents him seven years later. He’s a decent guy. And he ACCIDENTALLY ruined his marriage by doing a handful of things he didn’t know were causing his wife pain.
Your overly dramatic and well told century-old boot example is great and everything, but it’s a far cry from what this post is about.
By virtue of men not understanding how their wives feel, their relationships are falling apart, and I contend that if men DO understand how their wives feel, they can start making choices with accurate information instead of faulty premises.
This post wasn’t about the dirty dishes.
You know precisely dick about me.
And near as I can tell, you’re only interested in perpetuating gender wars instead of manning up and choosing to worry about what you can control.
Shovel the damn coal. Work longer and harder than she does. If she fails you and the train stops, at least you weren’t the asshole who caused it.
Denying that men are not somehow part of the problem in 2016 marriages is about the most intellectually dishonest position I’ve ever seen from someone with your level of intelligence, take.
It’s total nonsense. If you want to talk about stuff, please do. But I’ve had my fill of insults hurled at me.
Go find a place on the internet I don’t manage if you want to do it again.
You’re smart. So, try harder. Lead by example. Worry about you and not others.
And stop being a huge prick.
Love it! Some people just need to get a grip
Don’t co-sign, Judy. That was not a good take.
Five minutes spent reading this blog… N yes every word make so much sense. How weird can things get so quickly. If i hadnt read this… I would never realise how many perceptions can be involved and or deduced from a simple , even insignificant act!!! Amazing revelation. Thank you good sir..
I knew when I read the caption that it wasn’t about the dishes. I am sorry that the marriage ended before you got it, you did get it though and I appreciate you sharing. This is something that should be shared with boys in the fifth grade (or through out there life time~modeled by strong men preferably). My personal opinion is that human beings are very simple, they need GOOD food and GOOD sex, if those basic needs are met Good communication will be involved as well as respect and harmony. Good luck with all you do!
Because then you wouldn’t put your paper cups in the rubbish bin.
I have spent most of the day going over this article and the follow up comments, largely because I was once in a relationship exactly like this one. The bad part is what happens in a situation like this is that the resentment and “incidents” of neglect accumulate over a long period of time until you’ve dug yourself a hole you’ll never get out of. The resentment comes out from your partner, usually in the form of angry rebukes, with an extensive history to draw from, which doesn’t make you want to “do better”, it just makes you feel like crap all the time. Eventually you feel like there’s nothing you are ever going to do to please them so you just give up and await the inevitable. I guess I wished that people focused more on what people actually DO for each other than getting so heartbroken of what they DON’T do. Seriously, if a glass in the sink bothers you that much, try paper cups!
Unbelievable. I am going through a very same situation in my relationship. Holly crap, all this time I really thought she was crazy. The petty actions that she would do to get get her point across to me. I would feel like she was childish and that she needed to grow up. We are no longer 22 years old. Holding onto every little thing that I may or my not have done. Priorities are completely different in our minds. What she deems important I can just let go. Case and point. She decides to remove the wallpaper in both bathrooms. Probably figuring that it would put a fire under my buttons. I see it as her trying to force me to do something that doesn’t actually need to be done at that moment. There were plenty of other unfinished projects that I could be working on. Why would she start another one without even discussing it with me. That happened about a year ago. I have stuck to my stubborn guns all this time. Thinking that if she wanted it done so badly than why doesn’t she finish it. Not actually wanting her to finish it but that’s my point. Don’t start a project that you cannot finish expecting me to finish it. Oh boy, I am in exactly the same situation as this poor guy was. Fortunately for me I may still have time. She stopped putting my laundry away too so I would just leave it there because it didn’t bother me none. Knowing very well that it bothered her. After reading this article I did my laundry and put it away last night. Wish me luck, I am going to swallow my pride and start being more of a partner that I want to be. I’ve been pig headed and stubborn, maybe a little petty too.
Seriously, it sounds like there’s room for talk on both sides. I mean, when I was married, we each did our own laundry. (Well, he did his own laundry if he wanted it done – this was non-negotiable on my part. And each of us had things we were particular about that the other person wouldn’t be – it just worked out better that way.)
I did all the major remodeling jobs in the house, and while I might spend a while planning them, once I started them they moved quickly. Starting things and expecting me to finish them? If I didn’t agree to that, that’s out of line as far as I’m concerned. (That would totally have not flown. Like “And now you get to hire a contrator our of your discretionary funds, and don’t pull this bullshit again.” But then, I’m super self-documenting, and no one has any doubts where I stand on these issues. Talk to me ahead of time, maybe we can work something out – though most likely I’ll offer to show you how to do it.) But you all might have different rules.
…but it does sounds like you’re annoying each other, and maybe not talking productively about it?
I couldn’t have said it better!!!! Thank you!!! Sniff
WOW. This was amazing.
“The wife doesn’t want to divorce her husband because he leaves used drinking glasses by the sink.She wants to divorce him because she feels like he doesn’t respect or appreciate her, which suggests he doesn’t love her, and she can’t count on him to be her lifelong partner. She can’t trust him. She can’t be safe with him. Thus, she must leave and find a new situation in which she can feel content and secure.”
You get it. A wife wants to be able to trust her husband, to have a PARTNER. To feel safe. To be loved. As a partner she too will do things or put up with things out of love, but somethings are important and need that respect from her husband. Thank you for this article.
Oh god, this really resonates with me. My husband never picks up his clothes off the floor, takes his dishes to the sink (unless I give him specific instructions), picks his stuff up off the bathroom floor, you name it, he doesn’t do it around the house. Some things I’m flexible on like when he’s getting ready in the morning, I know he’s in a hurry. BUT, to me ignoring my pleas to pick up after himself is a complete lack of respect and I’ve almost driven me over the edge many times. I work from home and look after a toddler so by him just adding to my already overflowing to do list, he is saying, I don’t see you, I don’t think what you do matters because I want you to spend half your day cleaning up after me. And don’t get me started on the huffing and eye rolling if I dare ask him to move his dirty socks two centimetres over to the laundry basket.
You’re better off.
This… Made me cry like a baby…
I married my first husband at 18… We spent 11 years together. During those years, I worked two jobs (one full time and one part time), went to school full time (while working two jobs), fostered two children, took care of the house, did ask the housework and laundry alone with no help, and would regularly come home to a complete disaster that my husband often helped create and ignored while he got to relax and play video games and enjoy his time off… I couldn’t understand how he didn’t respect me enough to see how thin I was worn and why on Earth helping me by lightening my burden even a tiny bit by picking his clothes up or not leaving dirty dishes all over the living room was such a inconvenience and he didn’t understand why the dirty dishes on my living room floor were more important than relaxing and cuddling with him. I didn’t feel much like cuddling when he had destroyed my entire house while I was working my ass off and caring for our animals and the foster children when we had them.
It was the extreme lack of support and trust and faith I had in him to be my partner that resulted in me dropping out of school after getting my first degree because I was just too exhausted to continue on with my Bachelor’s, I chose not to have kids with him because I just couldn’t do it alone, and I became very depressed. Our relationship completely crumbled to the point where we didn’t even touch each or talk to each other any more. He said he loved me but I couldn’t understand why his actions said completely different. I finally gave up when I found my depression so bad that I contemplated suicide. We had recently moved to another city and I felt so alone…
Now, we’re divorced. I’m remarried and my second husband understands this concept. I’m still friends with my ex, and we get along better now, but he still doesn’t get it… When he comes over for dinner (like tonight) he makes a total mess and never bothers to try to pick up after himself… Sigh…
Wish all guys would get this. That way we wouldn’t have to leave so many behind and still grieve marriages that didn’t work. Great article!
Wow, this is me! And my husband is the “glass by the sink” person. Very frustrating. It’s a lot of belittling, yelling and disrespect, constant pointing out this and that, and especially wrong and hurtful in front of the two kids. I’m sure there’s a bigger issue – maybe PTSD related things from his two tours in Iraq before we met…. who knows. I just feel unappreciated and almost like a beaten dog when I work 3 days a week and take care of the kids and the household the other days (and when before and after work).
I read this tonight feeling like I’m at the end of my rope. I feel a lot of resentment. Thanks for letting me vent.
Hmm. Turns out I’m a man, apparently.
No. You just read me tell a first-person story to other guys like me.
It’s only relevant if it’s relevant.
If I’d known so many gender wars would erupt (or that more than a few hundred people would read this who aren’t already familiar with my writing), I would have chosen my words more carefully.
Thanks for reading.
I’m glad you came to realize the truth! I do have to say, though, it’s, “All OF A sudden” not “all the”.
Boom. A grammar mistake in the most-read thing I’ll likely ever write. Sweet!
On the flip side, I don’t always follow rules.
I appreciate the heads up. I should be more careful.
In my constant pursuit of knowledge I read three interesting posts on this grammatical question.
While you are technically correct that it is more commonly used, the “the sudden” predates Shakespeare’s use of it which is what we all base the “a sudden” version off of.
I read more and more. And from a pure, letter of the law, grammar standpoint, “all of a sudden” and “all of the sudden” are both silly as there’s no such thing as a noun called a “Sudden.”
Technically, you should only use suddenly.
However, writers like to break rules. Shakespeare just made up words whenever he wanted. Many stuck.
So we use idioms. And because it’s an idiom, there kinda sorta is not totally correct way. Only the more commonly accepted way per dictionaries.
So. All the sudden, I may just keep using whatever pops into my silly little head, properness be damned.
I wish i read this article years ago.
This is the most sexist crap I have read in a long time. This basically says that Men are incapable at cleaning up or do do care, where as women are obsessed with it. LOAD OF SHIT! My wife is the worst slob I have ever met. (that isn’t why I married her) I am a clean freak. We get along fine without your stereotypical “Men can do things, women are good at keeping things tidy” attitude. This article only re-enforces bullshit attitudes that society puts on us that have nothing to do with gender. Maybe your wife divorced you because you were a slob and she wasn’t, that has nothing to do with gender. GROW UP.
I think you may have missed the point lol. He used his personal experience to simply tell us that you do the small things that your partner requests out of love and respect for them.
But this I’s my story to! He will not put his dish in the washer or even rinse it even if the kitchen is clean and dishwasher is open=
We have had put squalls to no avail and I’m sure he won’t read this !!
But yes it is disrespectful and HURTING!!!
boy, did you miss the point! Hey sheila, get over the emotion driven harangue. His point is completely valid and it goes like this; when you find yourself arguing with your wife, stop and remember… you will never win. Even if you get her to stop hating that you leave the glass out, she still questions your love. You win by accepting that she has a point and doing whatever you can to help her feel well. You won’t be happy if she is upset. Period.
You might want to actually read the article before you comment on it and make yourself sound like a jackass. It was about respecting your wife by doing something that she asked you to do. It could be anything, the glass by the sink was just an example.
*slow clap* Congratulations for focusing so hard on the example itself that you completely missed that fact that it was, in fact, only an example…
I believe you read this article at a very subjective level. The author of this article is discussing a much deeper level of understanding when it comes to surface level tasks or objectives. For instance he says, “I will never care about a glass sitting by the sink. Ever. It’s impossible. It’s like asking me to make myself interested in crocheting, or to enjoy yardwork…” but now that he realizes the deeper meaning behind his wife’s frustrations he states “I understand that when I leave that glass there, it hurts her— literally causes her pain—because it feels to her like I just said: ‘Hey. I don’t respect you or value your thoughts and opinions. Not taking four seconds to put my glass in the dishwasher is more important to me than you are.’
All the sudden, it’s not about something as benign and meaningless as a (quasi) dirty dish.”
Men and women both have the ability to clean when necessary. He never once attacked your inability as a man to clean or that you are in fact a “slob” because you are a man. He was only stating that you don’t have to consciously ignore your wife’s wishes to hurt her feelings, but even non-physical or emotional actions can have an impact on a woman’s feelings, and the same goes for a man.
I think you totally missed the point Mr. Clean. Talk about someone needing to grow up.
Oh, Mr. Clean, you either really do get it but just like being contrary on purpose in order to get attention, or you seriously missed the point, as some others have already pointed out. If it is the former, prepare to bask in yet more attention. But, in case it is the latter, brother, you may already be in serious trouble. In your case, it clearly is not about a glass. It is something else, and you better figure out what it is exactly that you are doing to slowly, bit by bit, one day at time, to crush your wife’s spirit. The fact that you are shallow enough to miss the sledgehammer of a message this article puts out is strong evidence of your naivety. The article is not sexist. Men and women ARE different, and I don’t mean the parts that enable us to make babies together. Your wife does not process things the way you do. You have a lifelong homework assignment, and the project is to figure out who your wife is and what makes her tick. Get cracking, because you have already fallen behind. It’s going to take time and effort – time and effort that will have to be taken away from keeping the material things in your life so neat and tidy. Take heed of the collective voice in these replies and don’t become another divorce statistic.
Man or woman it just means respect the other ones needs wants and expections
Maybe tell your wife some things you feel
You’re missing the whole point! It’s not about the stupid glass
Well that went a mile over your head, wow. Try reading more than just the title.
I agree with Clean that this article was crap, but for very different reasons. First and foremost, that we are not getting the whole picture here. Women don’t divorce their husbands JUST because of a bit of clutter. Yes, I read the article, yes the clutter was the tip of a deeper issue iceberg, but we don’t see the whole iceberg.
Every marriage is different, and I would like to know something about the author and his divorce. Did he try to improve himself? And if he did, did his wife acknowledge that he was trying to be a better person for her? If this guy just gave up on trying to make his wife happy, he deserved to be divorced…unless he gave up on trying to make her happy because his best was never good enough. I went through a similar situation about a year ago with my wife, the little things got to her and she was unhappy. So I tried to improve, I tried to get the little things before she could notice them I tried the best I knew how to make her happy…and she saw none of it. She only saw what I missed. I remember spending a good 4 hours one day scrubbing the house; cleaning counters, scrubbing sinks and toilets, getting on my hands and knees with a towel and floor polish to make the hardwood floor shine…and when my wife got home she walked right past it, found a wastebasket under a bathroom cupboard that had not been emptied, and proceeded to rip me a new poop-chute about it. No “thank you for the hard work you did”, just what I had missed. And that was the day I stopped trying to make her happy, because, as far as I could tell, I was incapable of making her happy because she didn’t want to be happy.
A successful marriage is a two-way street. Both sides need to focus on the other, and to give genuine gratitude for when the other goes out of their way to do something nice for the other. And no, we don’t need a cookie every time we do the minimum of what is expected of us, but a simple “thank you” when we sacrifice our time and energy just to maintain is what keeps the positive behavior going. What is true for training your dog is also true for employers who want the best performance out of their employees and for married couples who want to inspire their spouse to be a better person.
So yes, this article pissed me off for several reasons. We don’t know the whole story. We don’t know if the author just got lazy and stopped caring about his marriage, or if he was never given reasons to care in the first place. I was pissed at this article because it was one side of an argument. I was pissed at this article because I was in this position and nothing I did to fix it seemed to matter, and often still doesn’t. I can get the little things. I can get the dish next to the sink and then some. I can do everything in my power to please her and she will still overlook all of it and fall back to the old standby of “you don’t make enough money” when she has nothing tangible to complain about. And this article pissed me off because my wife forwarded it to me at 4 AM when I got up to take care of the baby so she could sleep…and that was AFTER I had spent most of my day off once again doing 90% of the housework on top of making sure meals were cooked and the kids got their homework done.
Men, realize that courting your wife not an event, its a process, one that doesn’t end until the day that one of you dies.
Women, don’t make your man look forward to that day.
Hey. Sorry. Most people don’t read more than 600-800 words. This post was 1,800 words. I had to leave out a few details, you know, because: Internet.
I wasn’t trying to be sneaky or anything.
I BEG you to go download Stop Your Divorce! By Homer McDonald!
Women DO NOT want a supplicative male. They want a man! If you cannot stand up to her “shit tests” how in the hell are you ever going to protect her from what live throws at you and her. Rear up on you hind legs and tell her not to let the door hit her in the ass on the way out. OR you can continue to be her whipping boy and she will find another man to entertain her while you scrub the toilets.. BTDT!
I actually think he’s on the something…and the reverse of this gender issue was the problem in my case. *I* was the not cleaning dishes or putting away clothes, and my boyfriend was the neat freak who hated my habits. He’s not saying all women are obsessive about dishes – I mean, obviously women, like me, can be slobs too – but for people that this matters to, it can make an enormous difference. As many times as I tried to make myself care or understand why all my boyfriend’s obsessive cleanliness was important, I just couldn’t. And to him that was a sign that we were not equal partners, that he always had to be the one to take care of things. This is not important in every relationship – some people care more about other things like spending time together or intimacy – but for some, like this man’s wife, it makes all the difference. I wish I had known this before struggling for years with a partner who wasn’t getting what he needed.
uhh.. the op did kinda make it about gender. “Men are totally good at stuff.
Men are perfectly capable of doing a lot of these things our wives complain about. What we are not good at is being psychic, or accurately predicting how our wives might feel about any given thing
>> because male and female emotional responses tend to differ pretty dramatically.”<<
"There is only ONE reason I will ever stop leaving that glass by the sink. A lesson I learned much too late: Because I love and respect my partner, and it REALLY matters to her. I understand that when I leave that glass there, it hurts her— literally causes her pain—because it feels to her like I just said: “Hey. I don’t respect you or value your thoughts and opinions. Not taking four seconds to put my glass in the dishwasher is more important to me than you are.”
in other words….women get madd about stupid sh*t.
Sorry Kallisti. I was attempting to demonstrate that men are not inherently incompetent or require special care. That men can do things well, and have proven it at time. Thus, they should also be able to perform admirably as husbands and fathers.
No dig toward females was inferred or intended.
Perfectly said!
Fantastic read. Truer words have never been spoken.
When you are done with your glass and move it from the living room to the kitchen, you have two choices. Put it where it will ultimately end up (dishwasher) or put it somewhere else (counter top), which then requires someone to move it again. The second option is creating two tasks where you could have had one. Move your stuff once and be done with it (into the laundry hamper instead of the floor, into the dishwasher instead of the sink, etc). Either you personally have to do everything twice, or you do your tasks once and your partner (in addition to their own chores) must also then complete your work.
That’s what is selfish and rude – making your partner or spouse do your work when you are fully capable of it yourself. Picking up after yourself isn’t telling your wife you love her – it’s telling her you respect her and aren’t making her pick up after you. You tell her you love her by doing extra little (or big) things for her, not by finishing your own chores.
If you were my employee, I would fire you for not pulling your weight in the company. If you were my spouse, I’d fire you for not pulling your weight in the marriage.
This kind of black and white thinking is so destructive to relationships. Just because someone doesn’t share your priorities doesn’t mean you shouldn’t maintain a relationship with them. It also doesn’t make them selfish and rude – just different.
Additionally, marriage is NOT a relationship between an employer and employee, and it absolutely should not be treated that way. If you would “fire” your spouse for not pulling their weight in the marriage, you aren’t in a marriage, you’re in a temporary social contract to be terminated as soon as something wrong happens.
Real humans in real marriages push and pull all the time. They work, they fight, they negotiate, they relax. They disagree on what’s important, and that’s what you’re missing. It’s not selfish and rude, it’s just seeing things differently. You got so caught up in the example and who’s side you agreed with that you couldn’t even see the point of the article.
This is exactly how I feel and I am single. Do the job right the first time. I don’t want another mother and I am sure any partner doesn’t want a grown ass man baby. I could never understand why some men struggle to provide even the most basic things for themselves. I would be embarrassed if I didn’t know how to do laundry, cook, sweep the floor etc. This isn’t a sign of love. It’s a sign you are a mature adult. That being said, I take good care of myself, I expect the same of a partner. If my shit is in order, so should yours be. I don’t want to teach basic life skills. That was up to your parents.
The goal of a marriage shouldn’t be that of an Employer/Employee relationship.
Lovely article and spot on. My Sweetie and I have had similar discussions with similar results. We keep trying though. I can give you countless examples of he said / she said where not being truly aware of each other was the crux.
Today was just such a day.
Set the stage? I have a business, work for myself from home and at client offices. I also volunteer around the community, I want the world to be a better place and am willing to put my hours into making it happen. He has a great job and works from home. We live in a suburban / rural area.
This past weekend – massive snow. I am called on to volunteer with the county to help with the expected influx of coordination & communication. Sweetie & I chat about my doing this again. He is proud of what I am willing to do (live for 3 to 5 days in an operations center, sleeping on a cot in someone’s office w/ strangers on rotating shifts, sharing one bathroom/shower with 20+ others).
We are in constant communication using social media, texting, phone calls. We know what each other is doing and experiencing.
I am fielding phone calls and helping locals. Grocery shopping & helping cook meals for the team during my 12 hours “on”, trying to find quiet time while in chaos during my “off”.
He is taking care of the home. Has shoveled out the elderly lady next door and is walking through 3 feet of snow to help others in the neighborhood.
One evening, Sweetie tells me about the neighbor kids came over to “visit” our critters. And once again, she left the fence gate open when she left. It’s happened before, we have asked her to be more careful. He didn’t notice right away. Only this time when he did, a dog was chasing the 2 miniature goats. OH NO! They were OK. I asked if he addressed it with her. No, he would leave that for me.
Next day, Sweetie is asking “when will you be home??” While the volunteers work is never done, it’s time for me to take a break, it’s been 3 nights. I attempt to get home, but the last main road is still impassable. I turn around and go back, volunteering for yet another night. The next day Sweetie is able to get out and picks me up.
Once I knew he was on the way, I started working on checking out. Made sure my reports were done and the next kitchen volunteer knew what food we had and where it was.
He had to wait a bit while I said goodbye to my fellows and checked out officially. When we get in the car he has the heat cranked up. Normally not an issue, but one of my “gripes” I shared during my service was how HOT it was in the building. The temp was kept at 72-74 and I was cooking hot the whole time. So I asked him to turn down the heat a bit. He told me to stop snipping at him.
I asked if we could stop for breakfast? I hadn’t eaten yet. He said sure, where too? (the age old discussion, right?) I don’t care, looks like that place is closed, but that one looks open. He drives past and decides on McDonalds. Interesting choice, I try to eat “healthy” and fast food is not something I do. McD/BK/TB – none of them. He is free too, but since I don’t – we don’t together. BUT I try and give the benefit of the doubt & think, “maybe he’s just going to do the drive thru so we can get home”. No, he parks. Odd, but I am not in any mood to remind him of my food preferences, since I said “I didn’t care”, I will honor it.
We arrived home and Sweetie told me that I was exhausted and must go to bed. huh?? It’s 10am, I slept 6 hours last night which is my usual. OK, it wasn’t the best sleep on a cot in a noisy room, but I’m not going to try and sleep now.
Instead, I picked up a snow shovel and started widening the paths to the animal pens and getting them all the way down to the ground. Good exercise!! Then headed out to the front drive to dig out my car.
About this time I see the girl that is reported to have left the gate open. I called to her, asked her how she was enjoying the snow, and schools out for the week. We chit-chatted. The I asked if she gone into the yard to visit the animals a few days before. She had, she loved the animals. Asked if she had trouble closing the gate with all the snow. She admitted that she had. I asked why she didn’t ask someone at the house to help her with closing the gate. She stared at me wide eyed. I asked, you know that the dog got into the yard and was chasing the goats. She nodded. I told her that if she could not be responsible for making sure the gate was closed behind herself she would no longer be allowed inside the gate by herself. She would have to knock on the door and ask, or stay outside the fence to watch the chickens & goats.
My husband came around the corner about this time and asked me what happened. I replied “you told me she left the gate open”. Yes, she did. “I told her if she can’t be responsible with the gate, she can’t go inside to visit the animals alone”. He told me I was off my rocker. I must be exhausted and I had to go to bed right that instant. Then he jerked the shovel out of my hands.
I was flabbergasted by this.
Needless to say, there was a conversation right then and there. With him telling me that I am exhausted, rude, not thinking straight, being obnoxious and off my rocker. My response being “glad you think so, now give me back my shovel”.
After more similar discussion, I retrieved my shovel and went to work digging out my car.
After finding the car, went in search of my Sweetie to have a chat with him. I asked what was going on with him. He repeated that I was stressing and needed to sleep. I repeated that I do not need sleep, I do need to relax but his getting into my face was not relaxing. Shoveling on a beautiful winters day, is (it was 45′!!).
So I asked him; Question – why do we go to the parties in 2 cars. “You don’t want to stay as late as I do.” Yes, and why is that? “Because you can only handle being around a large group of people for so long.” Yes, (It took me serious negotiations to get him to agree to this) and where have I been for the last 4 days? Snowed in a building with 20 some people I barely know trying to manage in a stressful situation.
I can manage my introvert-ness when there is work to be done, but once home I need to be ALONE for awhile. Not asleep. You need to leave me alone for awhile, rather than getting in my face and instructing me on what I need to do,
We have had this conversation before. sigh.
You and your sweetie sound like very nice and caring people… the kind of people who care more for others than themselves. The situation you describe is the kind of blow up that happens when people go too long caring for others without enough me time. Your sweetie needed you with him rather than out in the center for those days and you chose, CHOSE not to be with him. How did that make him feel? I don’t know but the confrontation you describe may have some bearing on it. In your defense, I’ll say that if he were a person who is transparent to himself about his feelings he would have told you how he felt rather than lashing out as he did. Passive aggressive behavior isn’t healthy but it is treatable. You need to get him to open up. Maybe to the detriment of the needy. Who needs your time more? It sounds as if you don’t have enough to go around and need to make some tough decisions.
my husband and I really enjoyed your post. it came at the perfect time for us…we definitely needed it! thanks for sharing!
Remember guys, your wife’s desires are more important than yours. You are required to do tasks that you feel are unnecessary to make her not want to leave you.
That’s not real love at all
He is being sarcastic
Sounds a bit sarcastic…as if you didn’t get the point of the story. Let me guess, you’re divorced.
Sounds a bit smarmy, like you know what’s best and if you disagree you’re wrong. Let me guess, you’re a wife.
This advice goes both ways. A man wrote it, but it could have been written by a woman. Both partners could benefit from this advice.
So women should just capitulate to their husband’s desires without (1) questioning those desires, (2) understanding the motivation behind them, or (3) negotiating a mutually satisfactory compromise?
And noncompliance ought to be understood as a sign of disrespect?
(As you could probably guess, I think the article contains bad advice–for men or for women.)
I want to thank you! This quantifies most of the problems in my marriage. The constant battles, huffing and puffing, just plain old just not doing what I ask has chipped away at my love for him. No matter how I’ve tried to communicate the pain and disrespect that comes with this behavior, he digs his heels in. I’m officially filing for divorce in a few weeks and I saw this a few minutes after another argument. I sent this to him in the hopes that something, anything will sink in.
Yes…me too. Disrespect from my other half also. It’s not about cleaning but it is about 30 years of not caring about my feelings about his bad behaviour…staying out late night after night, flirting, ignoring and lying. I could forgive if he just respected my views on it all and led a more mindful and purposeful life.
You sound petty, he sounds lazy. If he can’t handle your pettiness, and you can’t handle his laziness, you should split. He should find someone who motivates him. You should find someone who gives you fewer reasons to nit pick.
And you 802.11Q sound very ignorant of what it takes to maintain a long-term relationship. With the tiny bit of information given in these replies it is not possible to know who is petty, lazy, disrespectful, lying or unmotivated. It’d be more helpful to hear why your relationship works so well.
Not doing what is asked… Do you do what is asked? If so, I might respect your point of view. If you think you are lord and master of the house, then I fully don’t respect anything you just said. If you are the uncompromising and demanding one, take an accusatory tone every time you don’t like something he does, then you are the problem.
Yeah
….
.. reading waaaaaay too much into a glass by the sink. I wouldn’t give two shits! If it was YOUR routine to re-use a cup over the whole day… verses filling the dishwasher with a hundred damn cups wasting time, space, water, electricity to wash all of them… Why did I divorce MY husband??? He sat at his computer playing games and kept secrets from me. I tried at our relationship and he didn’t. He lied to EVERYONE we knew about how I was a gold digging, nagging, worthless, jobless, lazy, and apparently cheating on him. HIS guilt, paranoia, and fears lead to a string of lies. Soon I found out he not only had obsessions with his video games but felt that porn and forming relationships with MARRIED woman on online dating sites was more important than grooming, getting a fucking job AND keeping it, putting his foot down, and standing up for me when his buddies talked crap about me they completely invading and moved into OUR house. That would be respectful…
But your story just sounds like tour wife really didn’t sit down and say, “Hey…. I’m OCD and a perfectionist. This house has to look like the cover of Better Homes and Gardens 24/7 and your sink cup is tweaking me out. Wash it or I’m moving out. You have today to decide what’s more important. Me and how I want the house or you… and this cup.”
Marriage is two people. Not one. It should be an integration of both personalities. Everyone has quirks, but a good relationship means overlooking these intebeween gray zones and agreeing to disagree. There’s give and take…. someone ALWAYS gives more or takes more. ALWAYS! It’s100% normal.
Don’t beat yourself up and over analyze your situation. You sound perfectly human to me.
You nailed it. No partner should be the emotional servant of the other which seems to be the thrust of this piece. Partnerships aren’t perfect relationships either, but this article isn’t describing a partnership at all.
It is truly refreshing to see someone who can discern serious relationship problems from petty self centered garbage. This should be a top comment.
Matt:
I found this article “Why Women Leave Men They Love: What Every Man Needs to Know” just days before finding this one. You are on to something.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justice-schanfarber/why-women-leave-men-they-_b_8511584.html
It may break us to do it, but if I can’t trust in the little things, how can I trust with a child that is my world?
Just like your plea to give and just take a little time to do it, the author (marriage counselor) requests “just five minutes.” The good news? If it is one of these situations and she is simply looking to ensure as secure a future as possible, there is still hope.
Blessings
Matt, you genius! This post is amazing! I read it today at work and asked my husband to read it earlier tonight while i gave the little one a bath. I think a light bulb turned on for both of us! True story – my husband and I have said all these things many many times over the past 13 years. You hit the nail on the head! I (without really realizing it) want to be valued and for him to use all his knowledge (because he is genius) and get it done. He, on the other hand, could never figure out why I thought the stupid glass was so important.
We talked about it for a bit, then read it again together. We laughed and laughed because it was us! And yet such a simple solution. I somehow couldn’t express why I needed the glass moved, and he couldn’t understand why I cared so much. Wow! I think me and my husband might like each other again after reading this. 🙂 Great, great post!
Nicely said. This was a good read, a good lesson.
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Now if only I could actually get my husband to read this. But that would be along the same lines as doing something else begnin that he sees no point in. Sigh.
So, I was always tought by women ‘love me for what I am. ‘this article contradicts everything, are we here to change people or to love by who there are. Lol, not sure but I think either you love it and keep it or hate it and leave it.
Well said. I will be sharing this with my husband and my boys. Respecting others is incredibly important in any relationship. Being mature enough to realize everything’s “not about you” is a good start. Putting yourself in the other person’s place and beginning to understand their perception is the key to beginning a long and happy marriage.
Thank you for this spot on reflection on relationships. I’m a divorcee because I carried all the weight – breadwinner, mother, cook, maid, and what put me over the edge was that if it needed to get done, I had to step up. He didn’t and regularly needed “mother” to direct him. Sure, he took his time, did it in a way that I wouldn’t but that was okay – what killed it was, I had to point it out to him and still, it Kay not get done, while I’m taking care of everything else. Now I’m in a relationship with another man, and while he moves much faster, he is of the same ilk, just tell me and I’ll do it. Well that’s exactly the problem buddy.
Before we married, my husband also said, “just remind me when I forget”. That lasted ’til about 5 yrs after we married, then when I reminded him to pick-up or clean-up after himself (would never ask him to clean up after me!) then suddenly it was “quit nagging me, I’ll do it when I feel like it”. We are still together, but it was a huge emotional struggle for me. I had to quit helping him with things he needs to have done in order to feel balanced. And I do still remind him to take care of things, if he insults me about it, I smile and walk away. After a year of this he is getting better. I have hope.
So what’s your conclusion regarding the choice you made to dump your non-weight carrying partner now that you’ve ended up similarly situated? Any kids in the equation?
Conclusion: no regrets.
It is respect. Plain and simple respect for one another.
Wow I actually read this twice as for me and a lot of women you got it exactly right. It’s the total disregard and continued attempts to make you bend to the others will that make me want to finally close the door on 22 years. while it seems so small the actual issue screams large!
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This describes my situation exactly. I’m at a breaking point in my marriage and sent this to my husband. Except instead of the glass, it’s pretty much the entire neglected household including the children. It’s not about being messy, it’s about deliberately ignoring your spouses needs in a marriage. I just don’t feel like he hears me..
I have never before written any response to an article anywhere at any time,but I have to say I have never read a writing that better explained how a wife may feel about these things. I love my husband of 40 years but have never gotten him to understand all this writer has to say.I will share this with him and pray he will see the clear truth of these words.Thank-you for your honesty and wisdom.
First man I never met that understood a woman…a little late :(… but understood nonetheless. BRAVO. THANK YOU.
Go in to his garage & throw all the tools around. Put grease marks on his car seats. And when he gets upset, say “But darling, this doesn’t bother ME. It doesn’t make more work for ME, why does it bother you?”
“I read this then asked my husband to read it”
Jesus Christ women, for the love of God – tell him yourself! It is incredibly disrespectful to behave the way you are – handing him someone else’ words when it’s YOUR LIVES. The article is meant to be helpful TO YOU. NOT a message. That’s all.
If you have talked to them (not just dirty looks, side comments from across the room, or casually mentioning it during conversation), and they’re not listening to you – the ones they say they LOVE… You think force-feeding them articles is going to fix it for you?
Rather than googling “Leaving my messy husband”, try “how to incentivize teamwork in a relationship”.
You know; this wasn’t the most kind or effective way of saying this, but it does ring true.
Especially the last sentence.
It’s actually a great example of reframing the question to solve a problem, and to be part of the solution, rather than being a victim.
You put the glass in the dishwasher, all well and good for about 2 minutes until she moves on to the next item on her ‘I hate you; list. It’s no more you disrespecting her than her disrespecting your feelings.
If little things like this are going to upset her, you will spend your whole life treading on egg shells and never pleasing her anyway. She also needs to learn that little things like this may drive you away too and that life is about compromise not getting your own way constantly.
Better off without her I say.
This made me cry. Thank you for writing this, and helping me understand my husbands thoughts, and maybe (if I send the link to him) he will understand how it makes me feel.
For many years now, I have done everything for myself, my wife, and my kids. And I do mean everything. 100+ hour work weeks, 1,000 mile driving commute each week plus 100,000 flight miles- and THEN 100 hour work weeks. Come home and do dishes, laundry, shop, cook, take care of the animals, clean the house, help with homework, pay the bills, rub their shoulders and feet, screw myself, and go to sleep for 3-4 hours. 7 days a week. 360 days a year. And don’t spend a dime on myself.
My wife is not happy. In fact she’s miserable. The kids aren’t grateful- they’re dying for quality time with their Dad.
You can do everything perfect and still have it all go to shit.
Thank you for all you gave and all you give. I would never try to somehow trivialize your enormous sacrifice to provide for your family.
I would only say to anyone paying attention: what is it that we really want most?
A starving person wants food more than clothes. A freezing person wants a warm fire more than water. A lonely celibate wants sex and companionship more than money.
Some of that’s probably extreme. But we tend to want what we don’t have more than we are grateful for what we do.
We tend to pursue money and things more than we pursue what every person actually seeks: Contentment. Happiness. Life satisfaction.
We just keep chasing it, believing that “once this other thing happens, I’ll finally be able to (insert procrastinated dream here)!”
Human beings were not designed to work 40-hour weeks wedged into little office cubicles or factory warehouses, let alone 100 hours.
You deserve infinitely more than that.
And I do not know you or understand your life. But I think there’s a chance you’ve worked really hard for money that is (sadly) unappreciated. Because what they really wanted was you. Just being present.
Thank you for giving so much. I hope you can find a way to shut some of it off and discover purpose and meaning in things that don’t require so much of your time always jet setting around the world.
Sometimes, what we need most, is to be still.
I agree
I love this post! Im pretty sure every couple has this argument because in my experience theres always one person who cares about tidy and one who doesnts care as much. Im sorry thngs didnt work out for you. I really do doubt thats the reason things didnt work out tho. Someone once said marriage requires no less than falling in love with the same person over and over again, i.e. despite changing circumstances (life, kids, midlife crisis, annoying habits etc). Which i think is true. Also “dont go to bed angry” is very important. Tidying up is an argument as old as time. Its part of living with someone. Its perfectly normal to argue about it!
Sometimes i take offense to tidying up after my husband , because yes sometimes i feel like ive got an extra child (really, leaving dirty socks next to the linen basket takes no less effort that putting them in it!! Ahh!). When im particularly pissed off i just leave it all until he actually does some/any housework! (Passive agressive, who me?!). But when im on top of things, often it actually doesnt bother me as long as i have time to do it. And a little appreciation does go a long way – you can be certain no one wants to do it ALL (even if theyre a bit ocd like your ex!).
I really feel for you because you are right. About all of it. My advice (for what its worth!) is keep writing/journalling. Its obviously doing you lots of good.
READ GARY CHAPMAN’S THE 5 LOVE LANGUAGES. IT’LL SAVE YOU TIME AND IT WILL EXPLAIN YOUR CONFUSION. IT’S NOT A MATTER OF SEXES. IT’S A MATTER OF COMMUNICATION AND UNDERSTANDING ONE ANOTHER. YOU DON’T NEED TO GET DIVORCED ABOUT IT. JUST TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT YOUR FUCKING FEELINGS. YOU’RE MARRIED. THAT’S KIND OF EXPECTED.
I have a question. Men have needs too. If one of our needs goes unmet, despite obvious attempts at clear communication, are we afforded the same level of “attention”? Will our emotions be validated and affirmed the same way?
I see this post as applicable to any and all sides of the marriage/partnership equation. It’s not just a “men, this is what you should do” prescription.
These points are great and really spot on. However I would like to add some things that are a follow-up to this:
When we do say “let me handle this” and do *thing* that needs to be done…
1. Don’t criticize us because we aren’t doing *thing* the way you would do it. Helpful suggestions are okay, but don’t be offended if we continue with our way. Some of us must learn by our our own mistakes.
2. If *thing* isn’t done as well as you think it should be, don’t say we did it badly on purpose to get out of doing it again. If we haven’t done this as much as you, it will get better. Maybe you are standing in different light. Also remember there are things you don’t do as well as we do.
I love the parts where you talked about entitlement and that she didn’t want to be your parent. What many people don’t realize is that when you feel like you’re in a parent/child relationship, it kills your desire to be together! That’s because on a subconscious level you don’t want to sleep with your parent or your child! Treating each other with the respect you have for a partner is what makes people want to be closer!
What a manipulative article. First you basically call women irrational and maintain that to the end while taking all the blame and telling them their right so at least every woman who has control issues cheers and says you have said what they could never think to say. You never address anything you may have done that she should have recognized as you trying to prove your love to her that she so easily dismissed. Or the fact she couldn’t allow you to be you and love you anyway. She litteraly felt pain having to tell you? The kind of pain she caused by making it an issue enough to leave a maraige? She takes a PEEVE and elivates it to the level of I’m being abused, disrespected,unloved, alone, having to take on the world alone while raising another child? What BS. That is manipulative control issues. You never mentioned any of your PEEVES about her because the right thing to do with peeves is to file them under compromise in a commited relationship of two people in love with each other and let it go. But rather than address all that your gonna file it away as logic and logic doesn’t apply when dealing with illogical women so it must be all your fault. And the end advice is just do everything your woman tells you to do and it will equate to being respectful and loving. I could have taken that 10 minutes worth of reading and boiled it down to two words. Be pussywhipped. This is a woman who has no idea what the word commitment means or what it takes to be commited. She just wants everything her way or the highway. Let that be the next guys problem.
Would she do that to her child? Would she do that to her parents? Probably not. But your gonna try to convince us you acted as a child which isn’t what a woman wants in a partner. And that because she didn’t know how to get through to you she had to leave and it’s your fault. Seems she knows how to get that message accross just fine. My favorite part is where you end it with once a man realizes this everything changes. The whole time telling em I realize your irrational always have always will but I’ll do as you say and pretend that I’m doing it because I’m loving and respectful…even though I’m just doing it because I realize your irrational. . All the control freaks are like yes. I’m good with that. You are brilliant.
I’m not inclined to discuss the details of my marriage with you, John, but you can rest assured this silly dish example was just that — a silly dish example — designed to illustrate the point that you didn’t exactly understand, or possibly did, but disagree with.
You, right at the top of this comment, cemented your fate with women.
You did it the split second you used the word “irrational.”
You said that I called women “irrational” and held that theme throughout my story.
And that’s not true. I said that back when I used to — like an idiot destined to end his marriage — treat my wife as if she was irrational, we used to fight about “insignificant things” like dishes or laundry or whatever.
Emotions are very subjective things John. The things that make you happy, sad, angry, horny, afraid, ashamed, confident, inspired, etc. are not the exact same things that make other humans feel those same emotions.
I believe, in very general terms (as we cannot pigeonhole every single human into one little silo), that men and women — husbands and wives, in this case — have VERY different emotional responses to things.
It’s why you can call your buddy an asshole while you’re both laughing about something and it’s a bonding experience, but you can’t necessarily call your aunt an asshole and get the same response.
You will be doing yourself a HUGE and invaluable service, by letting other people have their own individual human experiences, and accepting that they’re real.
What that means is, some people can be called an asshole and it’s funny, and some people can be called an asshole and it REALLY upsets them.
One is not rational while the other is irrational. One is not logical while the other is illogical.
It’s simply two separate people experiencing the SAME thing two DIFFERENT ways.
It’s not right or wrong. IT. JUST. IS.
I used to believe my wife was irrational. Because I believed my wife was irrational, I never took seriously her requests for me to more assertively participate in our marriage on MANY levels — not just dishes.
I predict that any man who doesn’t understand the dish metaphor, also doesn’t participate actively in his marriage as much as he should.
When your wife tells you something hurts her enough to bring it up to you in conversation, knowing it will likely create conflict, you should try to believe her.
When you dismiss her concerns and invalidate her pain over months and years, she will want to sleep with someone else, or leave you.
And in my estimation, you will have earned it.
Because you never stopped once to consider whether there might be more going on. You never once questioned your own beliefs. You never once stopped to ask the right question: “Is it possible the reason conflict exists in my marriage because of my behavior?”
Or better yet.
“What can I do today to improve myself and my marriage?”
The answer to that question generally falls under the category: Love unselfishly, accept responsibility instead of blaming others, and giving more than you take.
When people do those three things proactively, their partners tend to respond in kind.
Good luck, John.
I would like to add that feelings in of themselves aren’t rational or irrational. They just are. It’s the thoughts that come from those feelings that can be rational or irrational. If you look into CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy), it tries to help a person be aware of thoughts that might be distorted or inaccurate.
For example, screaming at your husband to demand more respect is irrational, if the screaming makes him feel distanced from her, because she craves love and respect but her actions are disabling her own efforts for more love and respect. The feeling she has (to feel supported) is not irrational. The thoughts and actions stemming from that, however, may be.
However, if the wife is being irrational, it’s not helpful to use it as a judgement label to dismiss her. It’s equally irrational to dismiss someone as acting irrational if your goal is to get her to feel better and on the same page as you, because by doing so she’ll end up feeling more upset and more disconnected from you.
Wonderfully put.
Nothing new under the sun. Modern “education” is severely crippling society.
everyone should read the classics and we wouldn’t be in this mess.
“It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters.”
― Epictetus AD 55 – 135
Spoken like a true winner. Thanks for outing yourself so women can look out for what they don’t want in a partner. Good luck with your lonely, non-pussywhipped (whatever the hell that means) life.
Good morning Matt. I usually don’t comment on articles but your article really struck a chord. I guess I liked it so much I wanted to be notified of new comments by email, so I clicked on that little box to the left of Post Comment. It’s been fascinating and helpful watching the responses. HOW do I undo it now? I didn’t anticipate the volume of comments that would flood my inbox and I’m burned out from reading all the comments because I can’t help myself. Kudos to you for sparking the discussions, even the intense, reactionary comments.
So I’m hoping you will come across this email and tell me how to undo it. I click on unsubscribe from future emails but that’s not the solution because that is linked to being subscribed to the actual blog…..
It’s illegal for commercial companies to email you without offering an unsubscribe option. Somewhere in each of those notifications MUST be a link to unsubscribe.
I don’t know whether doing so will unsubscribe you from this blog, but it probably will.
If you want to find it again, you’ll know how.
I’m sorry for all the annoying emails. I can’t tell you how many thousands of emails I’ve had to sift through for the first time in my life.
I’m bad enough at reading and digesting information when everything’s normal. So I missed a lot of personal life stuff amidst all the chaos.
Most of the engagement has now slowed to a crawl, so it’s not likely to be a huge problem moving forward. But still, there’s nothing I can do to unsubscribe you. It’s a WordPress function that I do not control.
Please send me a note if you have more problems.
Thank you for reading Candace, and for wanting to be part of the discussion.
Check the emails you do receive. There’s an unsubscribe function at the bottom of each email you receive.
z
This story is me in a nutshell, I in fact leave stuff out and get to it later, at my own time. My wife in fact harps on me all the time about the laundry, dishes, etc. And I do tell her, “who is it bothering, no one is here, and I’ll get to it when I get to it”.
I also am a rational person and I see what my wife is trying to get across, but its so hard to brake out of habits like that especially because they’re so trivial.
I love my wife with every beat of my heart and if a small thing like putting things away is going to somehow improve our relationship our marriage I am willing to do anything. But because its such a small thing I would find it hard to stay consistent with it. I’m a procrastinator naturally and I know myself, I would be good for a month and fall back to old ways. But that doesn’t mean I love my wife less or don’t respect her, its just how i’m programmed. But I will try and give it my best effort, because I do love her.
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I believe in most of this. I also believe respect and love goes both ways. And this seems kinda one sided… Maybe that’s just because not all the info was there. Example- My husband knows that I like the kitchen cleaned up after dinner. I will do it or he will do it. He does it, not because he cares even a little about the actual dishes, He does it because “I know My wife would really appreciate this (& she just made dinner)”. But I can’t expect him to know that without, one letting him know that I appreciate him specifically doing that and two being respectful and loving to him (hot dinners when he gets home, telling him how much I appreciate him working so hard, daily sex, not nagging, treating him like an adult, etc).
You can’t just expect respect just because they married you. I mean I guess you can but I think really you must be willing to give it (respect) to your spouse first. And hopefully you are doing this because of how much you love them, then it’s quite easy because you are happy to do/fulfill their needs and wishes.
60+ yrs ago I was just a “messy, bad little boy”. Now I am severely “ADD/HD”. I take meds for it but the help is limited. House is papered with sticky note reminders. We dated for years before becoming married. She knew I was a “pile r” and no horizontal surface is safe. I am also funny, exciting, extremely intelligent IN SOME WAYS dumb as a box of rocks in others, great problem solver all things mechanical, they guy you want with you in a firefight as I go stone cold in an emergency, unpredictable, and seldom if ever boring. My second marriage is falling apart and it would seem I am simply not marriage material.
Why do I tell you all of this?
My advice to all of you younger people is be honest about are you ever going to be compatible and if not say “I love you, goodbye” It will hurt a lot less in the long run if you just rip that bandage off and not tug on it slowly for year after year.
For you guys only I URGE you to read “No More Mr Nice Guy: Robert A. Glover” and join his forum. I wish you well.
This guy has clearly demonstrated; a) Why he is divorced, and b) that he is a total twat.
Thanks man!
You sound charming! Let me guess, you’re single?
So, in a nut less shell, men are: 1) Supposed to care 100% about anything that their wives are feeling or needing without considering their own feelings or needs 2) Be able to anticipate a shift in the feel/ need dichotomy and react to it 3) Have no skin in the game as far as their own feelings. What planet did this dude come from?
Your handle on the English language and solid vocabulary gives me the tiniest shred of hope, that if you dedicate just a little bit of brainpower, and maybe try to ask yourself better questions, you’ll be able to figure out how poorly you summarized what was written here, and how fantastically shitty of a job you did summarizing my beliefs.
You can do it, Dick!
The way I see it; It is always the person who is bothered by something in a mariage who owns the problem. Its their emotion, its their inability to cope with something of another person. Don’t expect to change another person for something you yourself have problems with. Thats making someone else responsible for your own problem. Best is always to talk about it, and not about the issue but about the emotions behind the issue. Its always an old mindset, experience from childhood or other issue in the person who has emotions about something they find difficult in the outside world. So STOP fixing the world but find all the love you can to heal the issue in yourself. Then you can stop blaming others of your own issues and get your freedom and power back.
Brilliant! It is never the first, or second, or even the third thing.
Going through some similar issues and of course my wife throws this blog in my face to make me feel how terrible I am.
I think the wife in this article highlights how the “modern feminist” is destroying the modern day family. She left a perfectly good man, and ended a marriage with kids for something so petty. It’s about “her”, not the “family” The modern feminist is convinced they can do no wrong, and their every need comes first. No doubt people in their 20-30’s are part of the “worst generation”.
I would have to say our Grandparents, especially grandmothers would look down on these modern feminists in and shake their head in shame. These women held families together during the WWII. Life wasn’t peachy. But they put their heads down, and just did it. They didn’t need self gratification at every step.
Here’s a tip for the pissed off feminist…if you keep telling your husband about all his weaknesses, instead of a compliment to his strengths, he isn’t going to be that motivated to please you. And you are going to spend the rest of your life as a “cat lady”
Really? You want your wife to be a doormat do you, to run around cleaning up your underpants off the floor, washing your dishes and never standing up for herself?
This has nothing to do with feminism, it’s basic respect for the people you live with and apparently love. If you had a teenager, son or daughter, and they came home leaving a trail of clothes, bags, shoes all the way to their room which they haven’t cleaned for the last three months, would you stand by and let them get away with it. Judging from your tone, I assume you would demand they show you respect by cleaning up after themselves. Same principal for partners.
Our grandmothers are looking at us wishing they lived in a time when men and women were equal, where wives were not subservient doormats. Anyway, these days a lot of women have to work, there is no choice with the cost of living and housing. SO, if we need to become equal partners on the financial front, then men can surely pull their weight at home.
I compliment my husband’s strengths all time time, tell him how grateful for how hard he works, our lovely house and nice life. But equally, I’m well within my right to tell him when I’m not happy about him not contributing to home life.
“If you had a teenager, son or daughter, and they came home leaving a trail of clothes, bags, shoes all the way to their room which they haven’t cleaned for the last three months, would you stand by and let them get away with it.”
I’d work to correct that behavior, but I wouldn’t tear up the family, to prove my point.(aka a divorce). A true woman(outside of infidelity, or physical abuse) works her ass off to save the marriage(as should the husband).
But to the modern feminists, it is always about “HER”
Jack, but if that kid was now 21 and not pulling their weight, you probably would ask them to leave.
Why do people use ‘modern feminist’ like it’s an insult. No, we just don’t put up with shit anymore. I want to teach my son how to respect women and if my husband is not displaying that, then that’s not going to help my son.
“Jack, but if that kid was now 21 and not pulling their weight,”
I would try my best to motivate them, Oli Vass, but good grief, I would never turn my back on my children and throw them out of my house over laziness.
The gap here is I seem to value family and commitment more than you.
Amen!
The modern feminist, who tosses her husband aside over a glass, and kicks her kids out because they aren’t successful CEO’s by the age of 21..and spends the rest of her life, living with cats.
Look at her go!
You’ve missed the point of the article. It’s about lack of respect and lack of caring. Please reread the article with an open mind; maybe then you’ll understand how something as small as continually (day after day after day, for years maybe) leaving a glass in the sink instead of putting it in the dishwasher or washing it can chip away at a relationship.
Here is the other problem with this fellow’s blog post….his story is not a happy ending. It would be one thing if “putitng the glass” away transformed the marriage, but it didn’t. Who is to say if all these behavioral changes were made, the wife would have found something new to “nitpick”? It didn’t save the marriage, and their is no proof it would have.
When you are trying to “sell” something, you need a success story.
Jack, my man.
I got a divorce. It was pretty terrible.
Because of how terrible it was, I worked REALLY hard at figuring out where I went wrong. I read many, many things. I had many, many conversations.
And now, I know things I didn’t know before. And am thusly motivated to share wisdom earned the hard way with anyone who might listen and benefit from it.
Thanks for reading.
But you offer no proof that this can save a marriage?
I would say, Jack, I offer proof that doing what I did will destroy marriages.
And I’m asking you to stop.
I think it’s what’s best for families. For fathers and mothers/husbands and wives, to have really strong mutually beneficial relationships.
This was one very tiny example.
Thank you for reading.
I’m amazed at how offended men are getting about this.
“Oli Vass says:
January 27, 2016 at 12:25 PM
I’m amazed at how offended men are getting about this.”
Well ponder the question and report back and we can discuss it.
If this is too personal, you don’t have to answer(and I offer my apology), but if you have realized your wrongs and have made the changes, have you considered with your ex wife, “trying” the marriage again?
Yes, I’m afraid this one lives outside of Things I Discuss Openly.
There’s nothing particularly special or unique about my marriage. As I see it, it is just about the most typical example of modern-day divorce imaginable. She is a perfectly decent human being, and I try to be one, too.
And I believe writing about what went wrong might help guys in my general demographic view their relationships in new ways and maybe not do some of the things I did. (Things I believe guys do accidentally and/or obliviously that slowly erode their relationships.)
The end goal, for me, would be less divorce (because it seems incredibly wasteful in light of how many people go on to second marriages that ALSO fail because they never learned anything), and fewer children losing the safety and stability that comes from a high-functioning two-parent home.
One of the major problems with this post is that it was written for a bunch of people who already know the kinds of things I write about and they had a bunch of context.
A few million strangers read it, had no context, but also missed the point entirely, and then had a bunch of cat fights on Facebook and with their partners about it.
As part of the whole, I promise this all makes sense. As a stand-alone post, it does VERY little to explain the 17 trillion facets of marriage, or to what extent my personal story connects to those things.
I like that you care. I appreciate you asking.
You seem like an awesome dude, I am uberly convinced now 90% of the marriage was not you, but the other party. My opinion of course.
Because glasses left by the sink get knocked over and break.
Because glasses left by the sink make it harder to use the sink for cooking or hand washing items in the sink.
Because glasses left by the sink will eventually pile up and there won’t be any clean glasses to drink out of.
Because leaving the glasses there makes her your busboy.
Phuck you, self absorbed bustard.
Now u can leave all the plucking glasses by the sink u want, next to the empty pizza boxes, and the leaflets for mid town massage parlors.
Or in my case, my wife can get to leave all the filthy glasses and plates she likes to leave all over the house, next to the bills she ran up and hid, scattered with all the invitations to the BS trendy events she goes to, filled w people I wouldn’t brake for given my druthers.
Check out Non Violent Communication developed by Marshall Rosenberg, there’s a full workshop on YouTube.
Worth every bit of your time.
It has been on my Amazon list for months. I have a massive book stack always. I promise to add this one to it as it has been mentioned dozens of times.
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I’ve seen this write up a number of times on the Facebook walls of a few friends; my only comment is “there is two way traffic on this street”.
Ironically, sir, I’m writing about this very thing right now.
Looking forward to it. What you have is a good read already and knowing you’re writing (effectively) a counterpoint should be interesting as well.
Thank you for taking the time to read and comment. Rest assured I don’t disagree with your original statement. It is certainly a two-way street.
Why is it imperative for a man to understand that a woman feels hurt because a dirty dish is left by the sink, but it isn’t imperative for a woman to understand that a man doesn’t leave the dish there to hurt her. This is just another example of men being held to a higher standard of needing to bend over backwards to adopt the point of view of the woman and adjust their behavior accordingly while the woman is given no such responsibility to do the same. This woman didn’t leave her husband because of any other reason than that they failed to communicate effectively. And both are responsible to do that. Sometime there is only one party that will not communicate, and in that case a divorce is probably the only solution. But if both parties are willing to communicate and can do so relatively effectively, then marriages can really work.
Perfect article. I’ve lived this for years. This door only swings one way. 1st the glass then the toilet seat. And a slippery slope from that point foward. This endless female need can never be satisfied. Men. You loose. Buck up and take it. When the circus monkey stops performing his tricks you will then spend $$$$$$ on marriage counseling to get you back in the mood. Buy a boat, walk away and become a live aboard and never let another woman move in again. Problem solved.
Sold my family sized boat and now looking for a sweet little singlehander looking to go back down island. Is OK to let a woman move aboard. Enjoy her while it is good. Is also OK when she steps off onto the pier.
Fair winds and following seas my brother!
Dum vivimus, vivamus !
Circus Monkey. I guess you’ll be one of those men who will never get it.
you obviously completely missed the point of this article…
That women are irrational but should be supported?
The door to living in filth really does swing one way, unless you have a live-in maid, doting mother, or partner who doesn’t respect themselves enough to ask you to be a decent human being and pick up after your own mess. This article isn’t about 1 dirty dish. It is about selfishly expecting someone to spend their valuable time cleaning up after another person who finds their own time too important to do so, but doesn’t respect their partner enough to see that.
Good luck on the hovel boat.
Pierre it would seem you aren’t familiar CM’s metaphor or of living on a boat. It is a very small space and needs to be kept Bristol fashion and men do that.
My decision to leave my husband was fueled by a dirty crock pot. Honest to God. It was “the straw that broke the camel’s back”. Of course this sounds demeaning and petty when read without a back story (which I won’t make you suffer through). But all in all, he thought doing anything more than providing money for the family was too much to ask (I too, worked outside the home). In the end I felt unappreciated, unwanted, undervalued and ultimately unloved by his actions, or lack there of, not only in our household, but our family and our marriage.
Enjoy new life, full of clean crock pots, an empty house, and cats.
Your ignorance is very unbecoming. Of course you don’t know the entire story so, you stick with the “because of a a dirty dish”. No, it was in fact due to his thought that his work outside the home was more important than mine, and that he needed to put no effort into maintaining a household, family or marriage. A marriage, or any relationship, won’t go anywhere if all parties involved aren’t willing to make an effort. These decisions are not hasty, but sometimes just need that 1 little incident to help push you to make them.
And, I am enjoying my new life, with clean a clean crockpot, a house FULL of children HE decide weren’t worth the effort, and no cats, because I hate them.
You however, enjoy a life of ignorance and unfulfilled relationships because you think think the other person should be a doormat.
Sooooo, you didn’t bother reading the article? You just trolled the comments to find a woman you could insult? Good luck with that!
Jack, sounds like the company of cats is favorable to yours 🙂
Jack is single. Jack will stay single. You can be a dick, like Jack…or NOT
Sounds amazing, Jack.
Matt I thank you very much for this piece. My wife linked me to this and I went nuts. I took a xanax and reread it.
There is nothing new under the sun and you have discovered for yourself of what many have learned eons ago.
Robert Burns wrote:
(modernized)
And would some Power give us the gift
To see ourselves as others see us!
It would from many a blunder free us,
And foolish notion:
What airs in dress and gait would leave us,
And even devotion!
I printed it and asked her to discuss it with me. Instead she took a highlighter to it.
Then I rewrote your piece from my perspective. It will be interesting to see HER reaction.
But ultimately your piece led me to realize my time on the sit n spin of unhappy marriage is over. Life is too short to spend it with a person who doesn’t appreciate me for my good and cannot see past my bad. We are both great persons. Just not together. I am of the opinion there are going to be some relationships improve from your missive and a greater number will end and ultimately be better for it.
By jove, I think you’ve got it! I sincerely hope your next partner/friend/sister/mother benefits from your extraordinary insight. Perhaps you’ll even get a chance to be forgiven by your ex-wife, maybe just a little. Well done, you!
I loved reading this entry in your diary. thanks again.
Interesting points. I have to say that all those things you said men can do, women can do them too, and they do.
He never implied we can’t. My god don’t be so sensitive to imagined offenses. Your insecurity vocalized so aggressively perpetuates the stereotype men have about us.
Yes, It is a good article.. But I am a partner with my husband. He works all day from sun up to sunset. He works very hard to provide for our family.. When I was young and narrow minded I got very upset with my husband over very minor little things like dishes.. I believe if I am to be a partner with my husband, then I have to carry my weight.. He brings home the bacon and I take care of it.. I love him so dear. I don’t care about those little things.. I thank God every day for this man that loves me, and does nothing but unselfishly work for our family..
Why does it always have to be the man changing for the wife? I’m pretty sure the wife could also show the same love and respect by just putting the glass in the dishwasher…I hate that it’s always what the guy must do for the wife when in reality it takes 50/50 to make it work.
I agree with you!! They both need to try & compromise. Anyone reading my comment – go read Celestine Prophecy. You will understand why and how people suck or share energy with you. It really amazed me & helped me understand everyone I’m around and be ok w/so much more. This article also reminded me of Men are from Mars Women are from Venus- it’s a long read but has tons of great tips on how men see the world differently than women. it helped a lot in my marriage.
Haha…it’s funny. That’s funny.
…that you read this story and THATS your take-away. Good luck!
It’s typical these days to blame our husbands for all of the inflexibility in the marriage, and what’s worse is that most of us believe it.
I promise you Jay, it’s not always the guy … I recognized myself in this scenario and am taking steps to fix it. I’m selfish, he’s not; huge awakening for me. And – I think it takes 100/100 to make it work, btw.
Good call. 100/100!! YES!!
Yes, I agree.
I’m the wife, the sole breadwinner, the sole cook, and also the one who leaves the dirty cup on the counter and then feels very sorry for myself when he complains that I don’t respect him by leaving it there.
On some level I feel justified in getting mad about him sweating the small stuff. I work long, stressful hours, scrimp and save to be sure we are financially sound. I get home late and then spend lots of time cooking to ensure we both eat healthy (otherwise he’ll eat McDonald’s everyday.) I constantly feel as if I am sacrificing for him. And then he’ll bring up the cup and it will all seem so petty.
This helped remind me that it’s not about a cup, it’s about respecting the things that matter deeply to your partner, all the more if they require little effort on your part. It also reminds me of what he sacrificed for me, namely moving for my career, a decision that has benefited me, but has made it nearly impossible for him to find a steady, well-paying job. And he has never resented me for it. That is also a sign of respect. So next time I’ll put the damn cup in the dishwasher. (Not actually a dirty cup in our case – we don’t have a dishwasher – but a myriad of seemingly small issues that matter more to him than me.)
I do hope by adding this comment that others can be reminded that these are not inherently gender issues (i.e. – a wife “nagging” and needing to be shown respect for her wifely contribution to a marriage versus a man’s ego.) Men and women are different in many ways, but we’re more alike than we want to admit. We can all be guilty of disrespecting our partner and can all learn to appreciate why it’s important sometimes to sweat the small stuff.
It does take both. I do all the vacuuming, dusting, laundry, and I provide financially for the house while working full time and working on my PhD. His half of the contribution was to make messes and throw angry fits when I was upset over his refusal to keep his word and wash the dishes. He worked fewer hours and contributed $0 to the household. I will not be the one to pay all the bills and do all the work and get zero respect or consideration in return. I respect your wishes to watch sports 4 and 5 nights a week, you can respect my wishes to do the dishes.
You should get help if you have such appallingly bad judgment in picking a life partner.
Yeah, let’s talk about the main situation: that your husband is working next to zero hours and isn’t contributing to the household and you’re letting that happen. I’d be like, screw that, until you find a job, I’m going to watch whatever the hell I want on my TV.
@Jay – It isn’t 50/50. It is 100/100. Always. Both better give it all they got or it won’t work for either one. Until people stop looking at relationships for what they’re getting in return, they will never be happy- and any effort will never be enough.
The wife is already putting her own glass in the dishwasher. It’s not 50/50 if she has to clear up his mess too unless your idea of 50/50 is that the man creates all the mess and the woman puts it all away? And it’s not the guy doing it for his wife. He is doing it for himself so that she doesn’t have to do the work of two people instead of one.
THIS!
Truth!
I’m not sure how picking up after yourself is some giant self-sacrifice that means changing what makes you, “you.” It really sounds more like being a decent human being who doesn’t expect others to take care of their garbage.
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
As a young wife (married 5 years) I may not know whole a lot about it yet, but this all makes sense to me. However, I want to add that there are things that is wives can take from it, too.
Like showing respect and understanding that how I need to be shown respect is different than how my husband needs it.
I thank you for writing this and being honest about it; being honest that you have come to understand what your wife needed. And I’m truly sorry your marriage ended.
Would you mind if I shared this on my blog and then shared some of my own thoughts as well?
“to have and to hold from this day forward,
for better or for worse,
for richer, for poorer,
in sickness and in health,
to love and to cherish;
from this day forward until death do us part”.
Not much of a marriage when you start off lying to each other.
How do you know those were their vows?
I am concerned as well about the attitude of it being the man’s fault because he doesn’t understand these deep emotions in his wife. I know that it is extremely vital to a marriage that a man “does” gain insight and understanding as to what his wife is feeling when she feels disregarded and disrespected by these so called “little things”. I also see that the respect must go both ways. A woman must show the man the respect needed to communicate that the nagging about the “annoyance” is a symptom of a larger problem to her. She needs to show him enough respect to not treat him like a child by nagging in the first place. Tell your husbands you are hurting. It may be hard for us to hear it, sometimes it may push us away for a time, but if we don’t have the information to even reflect upon, we cannot initiate the changes you are needing. Treat us as partners. Tell us that you want to help us give you what you need. We aren’t mind readers so don’t assume we “should” get it. We won’t unless you actually spell it out for us. This is not treating us like children, it’s communicating clearly. It may feel clumsy to do so because we want our partners to understand us, but we have to remember we are ultimately individuals who happen to be coming together in a partnership, bringing only our intellect and our own experiences to the table, not YOUR experiences. Tell us what you are feeling and needing, if you are capable, and if you are not, seek help to express it before giving up on us as uncaring incompetent men. As this article states, men are intelligent about a great many things, we just don’t have all the information needed to make an educated decision about how to treat you unless you give us that information.
You assume that he was never told. I was open, honest, and clear. I was promised that it would change. I respected his wishes. He did not respect mine. I was lied to.
The point of sharing your life with someone is less capitulation than compromise. It’s not him v. her; It’s negotiating “us.” So can we please stop thinking about sincere requests as nagging? Yes, there are miserable people out there who will never be happy and take it out on others by nitpicking, but there are also desperately frustrated people who know their partners aren’t assholes, and can’t figure out why repeatedly expressing hurt at neglectful treatment/problematic situations hasn’t prompted *any* action. Also, can we please address the fact that it is often easier to change action than it is to change feelings? While it is true that it is possible to work on being less offended by being repeatedly ignored, it is equally true that the offending party can just put the damned dish away.
I will spell this out clearly. Please stop using the words “nag” and “nagging”; to most women these are sexist terms as they are used almost exclusively to refer to women, to devalue our concerns and silence our reasonable and legitimate complaints. And the likelihood that your partner is going to come to you with her thoughts and concerns is greatly reduced if you are using terms like this in your interactions. To a typical woman you are already communicating that you do not respect her and that you do not see her complaints as being even potentially legitimate.
I would also like to point out that it is not our job to educate you on how to be a decent partner. There are thousands of books, blogs and academic papers that spell out pretty clearly what women want and need in a relationship and why women end the vast majority of relationships and initiate the vast majority of divorces. Read some of them and take in what they are saying (I am glad you have read this blog post but you don’t seem to have taken in some of the key points, the main one being that we shouldn’t have to be responsible for turning you into a decent partner who is aware of our basic needs and knows how to meet them, especially when these needs are relatively uncomplicated and arguably pretty similar to those a man has).
Women, for the most part, read this stuff and reflect on it so we know how to do an adequate job of meeting our partner’s needs. Don’t make us do the work for you too. This knowledge and the corresponding skills don’t just come as a standard feature of being a woman and nor does the desire to spoon feed men this information or teach them these skills. They also have nothing to do with mind reading and everything to do with plain old reading. You know; that thing that you need to do to ensure a good chance of success in your professional life? Turns out it’s the same thing you need to do to ensure a good chance of success in your personal relationships!
I acknowledge that everyone is unique and different people will have slightly different needs but the basics are pretty standard for everyone and having a good knowledge of these (basic psychology) will take you most of the way there. Your partner will communicate what else she needs from you in 9 out of 10 cases but you do have to pay attention. And if you are ever unsure you need to communicate that and initiate a conversation to do so.
I would start by reading “Wifework” by Susan Maushart. It’s an angry book but it does pool a huge amount of research (albeit from the 90s I think) that shows pretty conclusively that most men are satisfied in their marriages and most women are not and this is because women are mostly successful in figuring out what their partners’ needs are and meeting them and men are mostly unsuccessful, despite these needs being pretty similar. Stuff from the Gottman institute is also interesting (7 principles etc) as is “His Needs, Her Needs” by Willard F. Harley.
for wandathefish
Men are born or woman.
Men (in today’s world) are raised by women.
Men are primarily taught by women.
So if you have a problem with men your helping hand is at the end of your wrist.
Don”t Nag. Don’t Bitch. Grab him by the ears and look him in the eyes and tell him what YOU need.. If that doesn’t work walk away.
If your needs are not getting met it is due to the choices you have made!
of
Michael, your post demonstrates the entitlement and misogyny that is at the heart of this problem. You expect women to spoon feed you and coach you through the process of becoming a decent partner. And you are arguing that because women do most of the work of bearing and raising children (which they would rather not have to) that men’s failings as adults are women’s fault. It doesn’t work like that. I have never raised anyone so I am definitely not responsible for the fact that most men (and yes I mean most – I have read pages and pages on this subject) make bad partners.
And I have done as you suggested a good 12 or 13 times now – I spell out my needs clearly and simply on dozens of occasions, in many different manners, usually calmly and logically to begin with, screaming and crying when I’m on attempt number 10, and when I finally accept that my concerns are going to be deemed unimportant, written off as whining and nagging and my needs completely ignored I leave. And the man is strangely always incredibly surprised and often completely devastated and begs for me to tell him why I am leaving which is utterly bewildering when I have been saying “I am desperately unhappy” in those clear, simple terms for months and months. He usually will say something along the lines of “but I thought everything was going well” which seems to translate as “I was happy so what was the problem – isn’t that enough for you?”. This is not an issue of me choosing the wrong men, I see the same dynamic in the majority of male/female relationships I see (although the woman will usually maintain the pretense of some degree of happiness in public until she has decided she is definitely leaving or forever if she stays for the sake of the children). There is also a huge amount of research to say this is the common experience of women in relationships. We cannot just choose men who aren’t like this as almost all of them are. You cannot walk away from patriarchal society in which your needs are deemed to be secondary to your partners time and time again.
How? How how hoooooooowwwwww can we stop nagging? (By ‘nagging’ I take it you mean asking your husband to do something that he agreed to do or is generally his job to do, but doesn’t do. ‘Nagging’ also implies that it is repeated, so our working definition will be something along the lines of ‘asking your husband to do something that he is responsible for, but repeatedly does not do’.
So, you are asking us to stop nagging. Great! I hate nagging! I hate feeling responsible for making sure that not only my own jobs get done, but his as well. I hate the negative vibes from having to ask and ask, and feeling guilty for asking. I hate having to come up with different approaches to try and get the job done. I just hate having to deal with it.
So, stop nagging. Awesome. Now what? Do it ourselves? Along with everything else? Just be silent and put up with (in my case) not having any drinking water, or no light-bulb in the bedroom? Actually, in my case I try to nag as little as possible, because I hate it, and I use a lot of positive reinforcement. Which is effective but is very slow…. especially because my husband is an arab so the bar is exceptionally low. But he is coming along well! But my point is, most women learnt how to do this stuff – take responsibility for the homes that we live in – as girls and teenagers. It is not something inherent in us, it is just learning and hard work. It is the same for everyone. Not stepping up and doing your job just makes it unpleasant for everyone, the nagger and the naggee.
Amazingly insightful. And it goes both ways, genderwise.
My husband hated, Hated, HATED fingerprints on his computer monitor. It seemed like a silly peeve to me, but not having fingerprints on his monitor was MUCH more important to him than touching the screen could ever be to me. I learned to pick up a pencil or pen when I wanted to point to something on the screen, or use the cursor, whatever, anything but get my grubby fingerprints on the screen. I did this even on my own computer — partly to ingrain the habit, and partly in case he ever needed to use my computer (we had a Mac/PC mixed marriage). It was just unthinkable not to make such a small effort to help him avoid such distress. Thanks to your article, I now realize that it was more about being shown consideration than it was about the fingerprints themselves. (He wasn’t a neatnik in other respects.)
Last week was the anniversary of his death. I wish there were still a reason not to touch my computer screen.
“but not having fingerprints on his monitor was MUCH more important to him than touching the screen could ever be to me”
Dish or monitor — know what makes your partner happy and *do* it (or admit you made a mistaken choice).
I’m sorry for your loss.
Thanks.
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I think you might have missed a little thing that may have been the most important thing to your ex wife… By leaving a glass or another dish by the sink, instead of putting it in the dishwater, you were sending a message that said something like that: “Hey woman, come pick my dirty dish and put it in the dishwater!” It feels like a threat to all that women have conquered over the past few centuries. If we let men use us as a second mother, it’s like we’re never really independent and equal, you know?! I left my husband too, and the reason was also a bunch of little things like that, like leaving his dirty clothes all over the bedroom floor, when the dirty clothes hamper was right there, leaving dishes all over the house (when he happened to be eating), not doing his own laundry. I felt like a slave, like my purpose as a wife was to clean up after him and then “make him happy” so he could sleep well. To hell with that!
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Misunderstanding results when she puts out a request and it turns into perception by him that it is a command and he doesn’t want to be mothered. I have 3 sons and I tell them, that if they do not learn to heed reasonable requests and not outrageous preferences, people that live with them someday will not appreciate it. Most ” little conflicts ” are just roommate issues and stem from a lack of consideration to hear and to try to please without giving your self away. Yes, what we need is humility to be corrected into trying out a new way of behaving. Somebody is just insisting on being prideful.
I deal with this scenario on a regular daily basis and have for many years. Everything in this article is absolutely true.
Your marriage didn’t end because you left a glass by the sink. Man up and take your half of the blame. Marriage is a two way street. This is not 1816 brotha, if you were disrespecting her in the kitchen, you were disrespecting her elsewhere.
Thank you, Sandy!
i agree too…both of them sound like a couple of stubborn f*cktards tho.
Thank you very much for vocalising the struggle women face. And it is a real struggle. Believe me, there is nothing unattractive as a man that has to be nursed through a simple list of tasks. It’s easier to train rats to run a maze. I think I may love you a little bit!
I think this really goes both ways. I think that yes, men can be more understanding of what their wives/partners find important, but I also believe that wives can let go of the trivial things they focus on. I’ve been with my husband for ten years. We had a few years of this kind of argument, the one over the “small stuff” that really was just a mask over the bigger stuff… We really lacked an ability to communicate our real needs at that time. Eventually though, we both learned to compromise, to speak up without accusing, and I’d say that our relationship is definitely more solid now. I make a conscious effort not to nit-pick the small stuff, and he makes a conscious and noticeable effort to help more around the house. In the end, it helps us to both be happy in our relationship.
It’s called being a grown up and taking responsibility for your own stuff. If you dirty a dish, wash it or put it away in the dishwasher. I’m teaching my kids to pick up after themselves. At some point they will be on their own or living with roommates. It is not OK to expect your spouse to clean up your messes if you are not willing to clean up theirs.
Amen to that, this kind of presumption on someone else’s time and energy is clearly a sign of disrespect and can only lead the person being disrespected in this way to feel insulted. So, imagine a partner being insulted every day and then having to justify this feeling? Yep, salt in wound.
well not sure about the dishes maybe different dishes
Just wondering where your wife’s responsibility to meet your needs comes in? Self-blame is part of the grieving process after a marriage break-up, but the fact is if it wasn’t the glass it would have been something else. Respect is a two-way street and it sounds like neither of you had it ofr the other. That’s why your marriage ended.
What was said in the blog that makes you think his wife wasn’t meeting his needs or was treating him with disrespect though? Unless those needs were to be able to have someone else clear up after him and it was disrespectful of the wife to not serve her husband in this way?
Last year I lost my husband of 28 years to cancer. We’ve always had respect for each other and I will never forget that. However, I’ve since met another man with whom I’m in a monogamous relationship, and this article reminded me why I don’t nag, and here’s why.
The first time he slept over my house and in my bed, I had to get up in the morning and go to work. He left shortly afterward. I came home from work and made my bed. Keep in mind, it’s my peeve to have the bed made every morning before I go to work, but he was still sleeping in it when I had to leave. I never told him it was a peeve of mine, but the first morning I woke up in his bed when he had to go to work before me, I woke up, made his bed, and took myself home.
He texted me later when he went home for lunch and asked why I made his bed and I told him that it’s what I do every morning before I go to work because I can’t stand to have to make it when I get home.
The next time he slept over my house, I went to work while he was still in my bed. Before he left my house, he texted me a picture of my made up bed. I simply said, “Thank you.” Not something like, “I do it every day, along with dishes, laundry, etc.” no, just simply, “Thank you, that was sweet.” 🙂
Why? Because, it was sweet, and thanking him made him feel good. Now every time he leaves my home after me, he makes the bed. Not because I require it, but because he knows it makes me happy that he wants to take that burden off me.
Be kind to each other. You have exactly one chance in this lifetime to make people happy. Don’t blow it over something silly.
Very good advice.
yup. thats how its done folks!
Reblogged this on The Potluck Journals and commented:
Catching up on some reading. Came across this… so much of it sounds so familiar. If you are or have ever been married, this will resonate with you in some way, shape or form. It’s just fact, men and women think differently so communication will always be an issue to some degree. One guy I dated a few years ago told me about the book The Five Love Languages … I bought it and read it (not real sure he did..) but anyhoo..
Give this a read and let me know your thoughts….
Your marriage ended not because of dishes left in the sink, but due to no proper communication between the two of you as to why she thought it was a big deal and you didn’t.
We’re all guilty of that at times…
I can’t think of a better cautionary tale for men to forego marriage altogether.
One minor oversight (serial as it may be) becomes a conflagration of disrespect and a sign lack of concern or love. What it is in actuality is a simple lack of concern about a tiny facet of life.
Anyone that has ever had a roommate has experienced things like this. Usually, you’ll ask the person to try not to do the thing that bothers you. The asking doesn’t come with a pile of resentment and doesn’t involve some sort of existential meaning. If it get resolved, great, problem solved. If it doesn’t, you either adjust or look for a new place.
In the case of a marriage, however, a man can expect to lose half of his possessions and be required to support the unreasonable wife indefinitely.
Young men: Resist the urge to marry. Don’t risk your future on the whims of young love. Have her move in, if you must, but keep your finances separate. Keep things 50/50. Let the benefits and feminism work for both of you.
Ahhhh, now that’s better. Now if she decides that you’re an uncaring scoundrel and decides to move on to the next guy, she is free to do so but without destroying your future.
Equality is truly a wonderful thing.
With all due respect, Simon, the knowledge and behavior necessary to make marriage work is not particularly different than the knowledge and behavior necessary to make any committed relationship work… especially with cohabitation involved.
In the case of marriage a woman can also expect to lose half her possessions and be required to support the unreasonable husband indefinitely. Works both ways! I have more assets and make significantly more than my husband but that doesn’t mean the risk isn’t worth the reward. There is more than one way to protect your future…..avoiding marriage isn’t the only option.
Cool. So he has the right attitude. He sounds like someone who cares enough about his relationships, to be able to make adjustments in said attitude. Have at it, be better at the dishes, and being nicer. But to me, he clearly needs a grown-up partner. And having to “read” you partner’s mind is and will ALWAYS be unhealthy bullshit.
As for her:
Let’s face it. If you don’t have the guts to tell him what’s really going on with you, (to the point where he can even REMOTELY state, with ANY semblance of truth, that you LEFT, because of a fucking dish), you did him a favor by leaving. He sounds like someone who gives a damn.
But then again, maybe she doesn’t know what’s really going with her. And maybe she doesn’t give enough of a shit to find out. Easier to blame it on dishes and external distractions.
The codependency on both ends here, is real, y’all.
But he did get it eventually (and he seems to now really get it which is fantastic and I wish him every chance of happiness in future relationships). So she did communicate clearly, he just chose not to take it in.
it seems they cared about each other but i think the chick was being a whiny B about it and subsequent reaction was for the other person to kinda dig their heels in..and que viscous cycle. if someone isnt doing something u like.. try doing something different. i think they both dug their heels and and no one was gonna budge. that girl didn’t love him for the stubborn jerk that he was, she just upped and divorced the guy. some time made him see that he should have compromised. but i still think his feelings are misguided. i would have told the B that im gonna leave my bloody glass there if i well feel like it, because i dont see the point of dirtying extra glasses, and i dont want to put it in the sink because i dont want it to get all mucked up by other dirty dishes and thereby defeating the purpose of leaving it out, so i can simply rinse it, instead of having to sponge it were it to come in contact with other dirty things in the sink, maybe if there was a dishwasher.. id put it in there.. but dont like the smell of a muggy pre run dishwasher..so eff right off…if you cant respect my preferences, and think your preferences are better then mine..then yeah…id rather be by myself until you think different or until i find someone that thinks lie me but has other things about them except nagging about the dishes, that i find annoying. sigh
Sounds like you’ve come across Dr. Sue Johnson’s work, or just happened to stumble into the main idea. It saved my marriage last year, and we’re still going strong! Thank you for an honest and vulnerable perspective.
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This paints women in a bad light because it shows that women attribute love to manipulating men into a certain behaviour as a way of validating that love. I don’t think men crave that level of control. I don’t think anyone should crave that level of control. I’m embarrassed by the characteristic of many women. Live and let live. Love should be for free, despite the glass on the side.
Women are asking that men do not burden them with more than their fair share of what is called the “emotional labour”. The issue here is that he was expecting his wife to do way more than her fair share so he could do way less (there is more to it than the dirty glasses – she was having to tell him what to do around the home; he wasn’t taking responsibility for the planning and mental effort that goes into figuring this out and just getting on with doing it). Most women just want to be treated fairly, or as Matt says like a partner rather than a parent to their spouse. It has nothing to do with manipulation for the sake of control and power. Please read “wifework”. It explains all this and provides a pretty convincing case that this inequality is the main reason women leave their marriages far more often than men do.
I agree 100% with you, Wanda.
i think its sad and unfortunate the guilt and blame he’s placed on himself. Of course everything else in their relationship is relative, but i dont think it is fair at all that he need to change a habit as a “test” of hers. strictly talking about the cup, how is it fair that she become irate and expect him to challenge himself by changing a life long habit (or maybe need to use the glass later), but she cannot challenge herself to tolerate something he likes doing, she cannot have peace because of something that really doesn’t affect her. it’s always the selfish one that expects selflessness from the other and that is a debilitating mentality to have against someone you love. This isn’t a wife against husband issue, it definitely goes both ways. i understand she expects him to change habits around and he should, but this instance is a form of control, which ironically is somewhat degrading to her husband to “give up” so she can be content. I’m not siding with him, if it makes her happy, he should do try and work on his habits, but if he likes leaving the cup out, she should understand that as well. at the point when she demands it, it really hurts, because at the end of the day, she doesn’t care about a cup, she wants him to change himself (whether for better or not, its still doesn’t come out correctly, when he is happy with himself, but she just “needs” him to stop, just because). in my relationship i’ve changed many “unkept” habits to keep a happy comfortable home and to show respect and that i value my S/O feelings. we both expect things, so long as the other tries to show effort on some, we both are content but it really does need to be met in the middle. of course, this all ends up falling back on communication. if they spoke maybe she could understand that he does love her and respect her and this is in no way a reflection of how he feels about her, he just might fight it wasteful to use other cups (hypothetically). (this is for petty things clearly, not anything that could ever create questions on either’s devotion, respect, trust and you know things that will leave one broken)
I think the point is that more often than not though it was the wife who was probably having to put the cup in the dishwasher (correct me if I’m wrong)…And again, if you read the full post the issue as an inbalance of emotional labour which the cup thing is part of but only a very small part of. The wife is doing her share of the emotional labour and then having to do a big chunk of his too. This is why she left.
Haha, you see ‘guilt and blame’, I see self-awareness and reflection, leading to a deeper understanding of relationships and behaviour.
Yes! and Wow!
just YES and WOW over and over.
Thank you!
She wanted you to care about the same things she does, to be her twin. BS! I am NOT responsible for my wife’s idiosyncrasies. If little things in life upset her that’s on her!
My wife does 99% of the cooking and cleaning in our home after she gets off work. But I do 99% of the home repairs/upgrades, car repairs/upgrades, yard work. If you’re keeping score in your marriage it will fail. Why? Because the value/points system you use isn’t the same as your spouse. If you’re bothered by a dirty dish in the sink go ahead and take that dish from them before it gets to the sink.
If it’s not a big thing for him to change, then why can’t she?
Life is give and take. They didn’t love each other anyway
No way did a man write this. Only a grown woman knows these things. Mine is that
I get up every night and look around on my way to the bathroom and I see the same things every time. Dinner is left out. The dishes are not done. The cats water bowls are dirty. The aquarium lights are still on. The floor is dirty. Every room is a mess. My keyboard and mouse are greasy and my chair is across the room. I am the only one who cares and when I go to bed, it’s party time. Then I have to spend all day fighting with people to clean up the mess. Every day, this is my life.
This article only exists because there is this notion that a person can never be wrong for feeling a certain way. Well I hate to say it, but people can be wrong for feeling a certain way. If you’re married to a good man, yet you look at him leaving socks on the floor every so often, or a dirty dish in the sink as an outright display of how much he doesn’t love you, then you need to get your head on straight.
Further, he lives in the house with you. He is not your employee. But if you want him to feel like one, then by all means run the house like a boot camp. But I warn you, he will resent you, and if he has any backbone, he won’t roll over and comply with your every wish and desire.
It’s sad so many women are “rah rahing” this post as if they’ve been affirmed. Instead of looking at things that he does to reinforce your bad view of him, look at was he does FOR you and realize that just maybe he loves you but expresses it in a different way than you think it should be. Stop being narcissistic and thinking every action he does is with you in mind. If bet if you’re married to a good guy, he’s not leaving the socks on the floor because he hates or doesn’t respect you. Maybe….just maybe he simply forgot or meant to do it 10 minutes later than you would like.
I completely agree! I keep trying to post this, but my posts keeps getting deleted. I am a feminist, so maybe that’s why I think differently than the women you’re mentioning angrily commenting on this article. If anything, I’m angry at the horrible wife in this article. My husband and I are equals. That means I don’t preach one thing and then expect to get treated like a little princess in a relationship. Marriage has somehow become a man saying “yes honey” to all of his wife’s demands, and that needs to stop. Marriage is about compromise and sacrifice, and that goes both ways. I am well aware that if my husband was a bachelor, he wouldn’t clean at all, so any ounce of cleaning he does for me i see as a sign of compromise and love. Why would I ridicule him for a simple cup? That’s not compromise. I am currently working over 80 hours a week in my hospital job because my husband recently decided to go into a job outside of his field he majored in back in undergrad. Because he won’t start his “real” job until April as a current intern, I am compensating for the lost finances by working overtime. And I didn’t complain once, I’m happy for him. I still also find the time to have sex with him consistently, because that’s an important part of marriage. Not once have I “punished” him by withholding sex, as that’s a form of spousal abuse. Then I have to sit and read about these women nagging nonstop about something as silly as a cup, withholding sex, and getting angry that men can’t read their minds. These women need to grow up.
Wow. I wish more feminists were like you.
You have completely misunderstood what his wife wanted and what she was upset about. His wife’s complaint was that him saying things like “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”, put her in the role of manager and him in the role of employee, a situation which she absolutely hated and desperately did not want to be in because she expected equality from her marriage. Being the manager is the more challenging job requiring greater responsibility and more mental labour (and she also seems to have been doing more than her share of the physical labour to begin with with glasses left lying around, socks on the floor). Finally, given this is not a real employment situation she was not rewarded in any proper way for this extra effort that she was expected to expend . As Matt says:
“But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household….She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.”
Furthermore it’s not that his wife thought that he was doing all these things to hurt her deliberately but more that he wasn’t considering the impact of his behaviour on her at all.
“His wife’s complaint was that him saying things like “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”, put her in the role of manager and him in the role of employee, a situation which she absolutely hated and desperately did not want to be in because she expected equality from her marriage”
That’s not being a manager, that’s being a clone. Most couples do not think exactly like the other. Most have a different set of priorities which cause them to behave differently. Most men don’t think like women and don’t take care of a house like a woman. Both sexes are different, not unequal, but not the same.
Being expected to think exactly like the other isn’t equality, it’s fascist.
angryguy – how is it being a clone? All she is asking is for him to do his 50% of the work. He can do it however he wants so long as he doesn’t make her responsible for it – ie make her his manager. She doesn’t care if he takes care of their house exactly like she does – she just care that he takes care of his 50% of the work adequately.
Read the quote. She wanted him to take care of the house without being told. Which tells me she wanted him to do what she thought necessary without being asked.
The only way he could do that is to think like her. If he has a different set of priorities, then she’s expecting the impossible.
Mind you, I’m not saying he shouldn’t do his part. However, I don’t see that in the article where he said he wasn’t. I’ll have to look to see if I missed it.
I have read the quote. You don’t have to think like your spouse to look around you – see what absolutely needs to be done for the household and all of its members to have functioning lives and get on with doing it.
His wife wanted him to actively keep tabs on what needed doing and to get on with doing approximately half of it, rather than expect his wife to keep tabs on everything and instruct him on what to do. For example: check the wardrobes and/or laundry baskets and if 90% of clothes are in the dirty clothes basket and only 10% in the wardrobe then do a laundry and hang it up and put it away without assuming your wife should be the one doing the checking so she can then tell you that it needs to be done. She should not be wholly responsible for organising and ensuring things that need done get done. The wife was doing these things and he was not so she felt he wasn’t pulling his weight and she left him. There were clearly loads of other problems too if you read Matt’s blog.
Obviously, if one person wants to be in charge in this way and the other doesn’t then that’s fine but Matt’s wife told him over and over again that she did not and he either didn’t listen to her or didn’t take her seriously enough. He treated something that was very upsetting to his wife as trivial which made her feel even worse.
And it is absolutely clear he was not doing his part – especially under the “men are not children even though we behave like them” section.
WEll, that’s one way to look at it–to me, it looked like she wanted him to pick up after himself. That’s a lot less complicated than running a statistical analysis on the wardrobe:hamper ratio.
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I’m there. How do I stop from careening over the edge?
I really don’t think that men and women think as differently as people make it out to be. I do think it is true that PEOPLE think past and differently from each other in general, can’t read each other minds, don’t always fully understand our own minds or can’t really articulate the real deep reasons we are upset, want to be right when we should just shut up and listen instead, want to be right especially when we feel like our partner always gets the upper hand in some stupid argument that doesn’t really matter to us so we think and yet we dig ourselves deeper into it anyway, get so tunneled onto our own perceptions of fairness that we don’t realize how completely differently people we love see a thing…etc.
To add to that, that I live in a gender-reversed situation of this, and this article was nonetheless helpful perspective for me, as a wife whose husband cares a lot about a lot of little details around the house when I just don’t. It annoys me and even kind of hurts me that he points out over and over again and then eventually gets mad that I didn’t clean up the stupid water under the soap on the sink, that I left some crumbs on the counter, that the covers aren’t folded right, etc. Why does he value the stupid water under the soap MORE than the fact that I hate him nagging me all the time about everything and making me feel like I’m some child who can’t live in my own home as a functioning adult? I’m sure he is hurt that I rebel so much against taking the extra few seconds it takes to do things that just make his life easier, and I get so caught up in how unfair it is for him to get so mad about so many small things and why doesn’t he pick his battles that I forget that I too have an obligation to try to show that even though I don’t care about the damn water under the soap and I never will, I do respect that HE cares, and I should try to demonstrate that.
Living with other people can be hard, when there’s emotions involved.
thats simple ..get a soap dish…problem solved… see the problem with this is people dont think outside the box about what more they can do to not impose their silly preferences on people who are not like them…i know some one who is a complete neat freak..hate finger prints on their dining room table, and before the crumbs even fall out your mouth or off the food they are telling you to clean it up…nope nope nope! its just a fact that not everybody is that level of neatfreak.. so you should accommodate that, instead of nagging about it by…putting down some place mats…having napkins available at all times, or even handing someone a wet rag in a polite non nagging way, they will get the point. all that extra pointing out crap is unnecessary. i will drop quick someone in the face if they ever…tell that fool to buy a soap dish if they dont like or to find a soap that is hand pumped, and tell them to stfu.
Brilliantly said!
I understand the point of your article, but I got insanely angry reading it, and this is coming from a woman. It’s your wife’s own fault she was obsessed with a stupid drinking glass, and she shouldn’t have the final say because of her genitalia. As someone who stands for equality of both genders, this means I can’t preach one thing and then expect to get treated like a little princess in a relationship. We both love and respect one another as equals. Marriage consists of compromises. That goes both ways. That doesn’t mean a husband has to say “yes honey” to all of his wife’s standards of living, that’s not a compromise. So fellow ladies: Unless your husband is truly being a lazy slob living in a giant pile of filth and can’t contribute anything to the house (which would be understandably annoying and treating you with disrespect), then you need to show some actual respect to him as well. He doesn’t want to put his glass away. No one gives a crap about the glass on the counter but you. Let me repeat for the umpteenth time: you are the only person on planet earth who gives a flying rip about that stupid glass on the counter, and maybe the problem is you.
I highly doubt on your death bed you’re going to be saying “I wish I cleaned more!” I’m not telling you to live in filth or not pick up after yourself, but also understand that life is short. Don’t forget to spend moments with each other, and if you want to be anal retentive and stressed about cups, then I’d suggest not dragging him down and expecting him to cater to your fantasies of perfection you saw on HGTV. No human is perfect.
My husband is currently trying to “start over” and go into a field he didn’t originally intend to, and because I love him I am working over 80 hours a week at my hospital job to compensate for the lost finances while he lives his dream and starts his “real” job in three months. Not once did i complain, because I want him to be happy. Being married means making sacrifices and compromises. It doesn’t mean catering to the wife’s every demand. A wife is a loving spouse, not his boss.
It certainly wasn’t a marriage, but I lived with a boyfriend in a serious and committed relationship in which I was the dirty-glass-leaver. I didn’t understand why it was that big of a deal to leave some dishes in the sink. I didn’t get why he was so adamant that I not leave my shoes in the living room after a long day at work, instead of just putting them away. After the fact, I came to the same realization…that it would have been so much easier to take ten seconds out of my life to make someone else happy, at very little of my own expense. It really boils down to a lack of communication skills, but I don’t think either party can be faulted…some people just aren’t wired to understand each other, or they’re not yet at a place of emotional maturity that will allow the kind of understanding and compassion it takes to make a relationship work. You live and you learn, I guess…?
This is so well written that I couldn’t believe it was written by a man! My husband and I separated after 5 years of marriage but reconciled after 3 months. We’ve now been married 22 years. You’ve articulated exactly how I felt back then and even sometimes now. Thank you.
Like every other facet of our lives, there is no black and white answer to fix issues like this. I face this in my home sometimes. My wife has this need to have the bed made everyday. I never did this prior to meeting her. I would of course if I needed my room to be presentable to others, but in general I just didn’t see the point.
Eventually, I learned this was a huge thing for her and after being let in on her feelings (instead of just being told I should make the bed), I decided it wasn’t a big deal and if it needs to be made, I make it. It makes her happy.
I do agree with others above though on certain points. For example, where does it end? If I had a list to keep up in my head of things that needed to be done in a certain way for her to feel “loved”, well….I’m screwed. Men, just like women, forget things or just get busy and become distracted. And how many times in a week, month, or year can I forget and you be willing to overlook it?
I’m lucky that my wife “thinks” she has many things that fall in line with the “glass” in this article, when in reality it is just a few minor things that I’m willing to compromise on and do without hesitation.
I do believe that eventually this type of behavior in someone (I don’t believe it’s only women who display this) can turn into manipulation and that it in no way will lead to a successful and long marriage. Eventually there will be resentment.
I also agree that marriages are built on compromise. Why is it unacceptable for the “glass” person to change their behavior and/or way of viewing things? I realize that is hard, but it’s just as hard for the person to make a change.
I think many of you that have made comments solely geared towards one side or the other should look in the mirror and realize that you ARE the “glass” person. Unwilling to change, unwilling to compromise. If you’re not willing to, you’re relationship is doomed.
She must have been perfect. I couldn’t stand to live with a “perfect” woman (i.e. she considers herself to be perfect). My wife isn’t perfect. Neither am I. Consequently, we have the grace to love each other through all of our imperfections.
Who would’ve thought a dirty glass could destroy a celestial marriage.
When looking at things through an eternal perspective, an out of place glass doesn’t seem so out of place.
Judgement Bar: says here you left you husband over a dirty glass is that right?
You: yes, but it was more than that.
Judgement Bar: How was he with your children, did he provide for them, did he love them, would he have died for them?
You: Yes, but.
Judgement Bar: Did he provide for you, did he physically harm you in any way, did he keep the vows he made on the day you were sealed?
You: But the dirty glass demeaned me and all i stood for, knocked me down as a woman and I felt bad.
Judgement Bar: uh huh, did you tell him how bad the dirty glass was or how harmful it was to your physic?
You: aaaa no, he just should’ve known!
Judgement Bar: well okay then, I think we’re done here, you can go now, second door on my Left.
Bye bye now!
There’s a WHOLE LOT of truth in this article. However this article is not the whole truth. The rest of the story is that all that respect stuff has to be a two way street, and women who can only see the lack of respect paid to them are just as much to blame as the men this article is purporting to speak to.
I’ma leave off “wife” and “husband”, since that’s not my paradigm – in my marriage there are two wives. But, the thing that strikes me most here is, why is it you’re a dick for not changing your habits to meet her expectations, rather than she’s a dick for not relaxing her expectations to include your habits?
So glad I read this. I’m sure my ex husband probably thinks I left him because he never put the the phone book away. And yes, it is disrespectful if it happens continuously after sufficient reminders. The insinuation that someone is going to sweep up after you is belittling, or the assumption that his time is of more value than hers, even four seconds. But no woman would leave a man for a single violation, would she?
The disrespect didn’t stop with the phone book ….. Over the course of our 26 year marriage, there were many things that added to that feeling of being devalued …. Everything from asking me what’s for dinner (never taking the initiative himself), not brushing his teeth before coming to bed, or making weekend plans with his buddies without letting me know – with the assumption that I would be there to watch the three kids. I often expressed my dissatisfaction about these things, and he would tell me to lighten up, like it was trivial and unimportant …. To the point where it wasn’t worth mentioning anymore. While none of those things were enough to make me divorce him, it all added to the feeling of being taken for granted and lonely. I was never as lonely as I was when I was married …. Just didn’t feel like I mattered to him.
Ten years after the divorce, I don’t miss any of it. I don’t miss cleaning up after him, sure don’t miss his farts under the sheets, and certainly don’t miss shopping and cooking dinner for him … Now, I’m 58, the kids are grown, I’m almost ready to retire. I have a close circle of girl friends who are also in a similar situation. Most of us agree, we’ll never cohabitate or marry again …. It’s not worth the time or pain, and there is no logic in it once you’re done raising your family. I still date, and have a couple great guy friends who are great travel partners. Life is better this way … I think some people just aren’t cut out for marriage.
eww. what a brute. he wasnt disrespectful, just lame and disgusting.
This perfectly describes what I wish my husband could at least try to understand. I work full time and actively sell real estate, take care of two kids in elementary school and younger, maintain the household, and do the best I can in keeping the house neat. I don’t even expect him to put the dishes in the dishwasher, but at least not complain when I ask if he could put the clean dishes away, or take out the trash, or wipe off the counter after making a sandwich. In his eyes I’m nagging, but in mine I’m asking for help. Just like the article said, I don’t want to be his mother. I’m tired and I need a partner, not a third child.
What does he do for a living? Does your standard of living depend on his income?
What an absurd, patronizing question to ask based on the information given.
How does one partners income compared to another’s have anything to do with this article or the above woman’s comment?
Not really a terrible question. Selling houses is not hard work…..sorry. I’ve never met a realtor who was tired. Not sure about her other job however.
So if this guy is breaking his back at a job everyday so his wife doesn’t have to, then maybe he could be cut some slack.
Thing is, I would wager a million bucks she’s exaggerating and he doesn’t do this all the time. It’s probably more like a 1 out of 3, or close to that kind of deal. Then again maybe she’s married to a real prick idk.
I choose to believe this question was meant in a “Can you separate without making yourself destitute” way rather than “Does he buy you shoes because if so you have no right to expect him to do anything”. Otherwise my head will explode.
Angryguy- I think you missed the entire point of this thought piece. On another note, I work for a real estate company (not as an agent) and your comment is absurd. Just because realtors aren’t doing manual labor their work never ends and can be mentally taxing. Clients can be very demanding and not a penny is earned until an actual house is sold. Don’t belittle people’s careers you know nothing about
Even if she did not work as a real estate agent, maintaing a home and taking care of young children is already more than a full time job.
Sophia, I’m not demeaning the work. But I stand by my view of what it is, and that is it’s not that demanding. I’ve hired multiple realtors in my time and I’ve seen what they do. People can be demanding, but the worst thing they can do is ask for another realtor.
There are jobs that can be hard, and there are jobs that can be annoying. The job of a realtor falls more on the latter. Again, I don’t look down on someone for being in the profession, but I don’t believe it’s all blood sweat and tears either.
But to my original post. I asked her the question because it is relevant. Maybe her husband works a ton of hours which allows her to work at a job she like. Maybe he hates life but is doing what he does for her and her overall happiness. If that is the case, then maybe she should do some inward reflection and think maybe she should understand that she has it good.
Then again, he could be a low life and she’s right to feel neglected. We don’t know. But saying “right on sister” like so many are with her comment and others, without asking some simple questions looks to me that some want affirmation more than they want truth.
Angryguy—My husband does concrete. I sit behind a desk all day. I don’t even have to deal with angry people on a daily basis. However, he CHOSE his line of work. He chose to have to work very hard, physically, to make his money. He could have sucked it up and went to school and got a degree in which he could make just as much money sitting behind a desk as he does busting his butt all day every day. He is usually very tired when he gets home, especially during the summer months. However, I still expect him to help me a little here and there. I generally take care of most things. However, I do expect him to be able to take 4 seconds to put his dirty dish into the dishwasher. If he’s too tired to handle that, he needs to find a different line of work.
Cassandra, I wasn’t saying that he or any husband should never help or do anything. My point was for people to cut some slack and appreciate what their spouse does in other areas. Be appreciative of the hard work they put in. Not everything they do or don’t do is necessarily an act of aggression towards the other.
I’m not absolving lazy people or saying a husband should not chip in.
For myself, I help out a lot around the house, and I do so to keep her happy. I know she has a lot of things that keep her busy, so I am needed.
Really, if the marriage is good, little things like this in the story are just an annoyance. If it’s bad, they become larger issues than they should be. When you can’t stand someone, every little thing they do you don’t like will be come massive points of contention.
Angryguy is probably so angry because he has already destroyed his own family with his arrogance and incompetence. You’re missing the whole point of this thing. Maybe youre just trolling on purpose. It doesn’t matter the line of work either party is in or if they are homemakers, the idea is about partnership. In a real partnership, you can’t think yourself better than your other half.
P.S. the customer service industry can be the most mentally taxing of any profession. You can wash the sweat of a long hard day of physical labor off but the stress of sales follows you to bed each night.
Kdubwoody, actually my marriage is pretty good. In fact, it’s much better know once my wife understood that socks on the floor were not acts of war against her feelings, but rather they were just socks on the floor. She understands me better, and I also understand her better and try to do my part around the house. In fact, you would probably be shocked at how I treat her. I clean, cook, take care of the kids when I get home from work, and I let her sleep in on the weekends. Gasp! I’m a monster!
Had I been weak and just did whatever it is she wanted, she never would have grew to understand how I tick, nor would I understand her.
I’m not perfect by any means, and I still do things that upset her, but the difference is we don’t let those things tear us apart.
Here’s a thought, instead of looking at what they do that drives you crazy, maybe take a look at yourself and see what you can do to be a better husband/wife. Better yet, maybe talk to your spouse and ask them what you do that bothers them, and maybe you can share what you don’t like. It’s much healthier than congregating with the rest of the amazonian cry-fest here.
P.S. I’ve done customer service jobs in the past. I know exactly what they are like.
angryguy, you have missed the point. Money can not buy love, respect, kindness, or thoughtfulness and caring for another’s opinion has nothing to do with money. If you just want a clean house, buy a maid service. You’ve shown that you are doomed to a selfish, lonely existence.
wait…what? what does money have to do with anything? Speaking of missing the point…..
why don’t you ask whay does they do for a living? or you just assume that she is a housewife ? what a closed mind.
FGS. It doesn’t matter what either of them does for a living – they’re both adults, adults clear up after themselves.
Chores, cleaning and tidying are not a wife’s ‘job’ which a husband occasionally helps her with if he feels like. They are his responsibility every bit as much as it is hers. You work as a team and suck it up.
Mary……read the rest of my responses before jumping to a conclusion. I will admit I should have elaborated more on that post. However, I did have another post before that which would have explained more at what I was getting at, but it never appeared for some reason.
First, angryguy, I think you’re right about the communication aspect of this relationship. If something as simple as putting a dish in the dishwasher is hurting or offending your spouse, just put it in the dishwasher. At the same time, how is he supposed to know that it is that big of a deal and that it makes his wife feel as if she is only there to serve him if he doesn’t communicate that. Its a two way street and keeping it to yourself is going to cause your marriage to crumble.
Second, I’m a full time realtor. And you’re right, the worst thing that can happen is that they ask for another realtor. But when that happens, my kids don’t eat. So some nights I don’t get home until 9:00PM but I was in the office at 7:00 getting things ready for the day. I work evenings and weekends because that is when my clients are available. If my client is unhappy, I don’t get paid. I don’t get an hourly wage to show houses. Some days my clients will call and absolutely NEED to see a house right that second, and if I’m unavailable, they go elsewhere and hours of time and effort are washed down the drain. I come home at the end of the day after trying to put deals back together because some green lender did the numbers wrong and that’s costing my buyers a house. Sometimes my phone will ring at 10:00 at night because one of my sellers is reading an article about some new form of advertising that they think we should try. I am on call 24/7 because just like you said, the worst thing that could happen is that they ask for another realtor.
Yes, my job allows me flexibility and allows me to “be my own boss”, but the competition is fierce and my paycheck is not guaranteed. So I am tired, and I am stressed, and my job is a lot of hard work. If you’ve never done it, please don’t act like it’s easy.
Maggie, I’d hire you in a second because you are not the kind I’ve dealt with in the past. I’ve just had a very bad taste left in my mouth from 99% of all realtors I’ve ever had try to sell my home. I’m not a demanding guy either, and probably not demanding enough to a fault. So I’ve based my opinion off the many realtors I had contracted with over the last several years. I would go into detail, but they are some long stories.
I want to reiterate that I wasn’t looking down(although I can understand why someone might take what I said that way) on the profession. I can respect someone like yourself who does put everything they have into their job. I do apologize if I offended you.
Agreed!
YES!! Preach mama!
I have only been married for two years. We see our pastor for marital/family/personal counseling. We have had this exact conversation with him.
It was good to read it again and I’m going to share it.
It’s really always about feelings and worth…
There is another point that I think the glass symbolizes- and Matt, I think you may already know this, or may have instinctively understood the idea- that this is in essence power dynamics. In any relationship, the one that “cares” more about whatever the subject may be is actually the one that is at a position of lower power and unfortunately in a male-female relationship dynamic, this tends to be the female. And power struggles are real and constant realities of relationships. If they’re not addressed, I think it spells an end to the relationship no matter how well everything else is going. So, in essence, by complying to doing what is asked, what you’re doing is elevating the power of the requestor to an equal level. And this is something only the requestee can do. It is not useful in these scenarios to tell the requestor that it’s no big deal or that they need to think differently, the power gap is already there and there’s really two choices of the requestee. They can either choose to maintain the power gap, or they can equalize it by complying. I think this is why a requestor feels unloved, disrespected, unappreciated when time and time again the partner doesn’t comply. It creates an even bigger power gap and asserts to the requestor that they are not viewed equally with the partner. Now, I haven’t figured out why exactly this manifests in the “seemingly small mundane things”, maybe because of its tangibility or frequency that allows the requestor to affirm, “ok, this is equal. We are on equal footing.” I would however venture to guess that the more secure a person is in that relationship, the less likely they view these as real transgressions. And that the more the person of power shows this affection freely and frequently, the less this power struggle occurs. This I think is where the control and change could happen, such that the impact of the glass lessens. In your situation, did you notice an increase in frequency of her demands before the divorce or did this happen all along? Did you also become more obstinate as the requests came?
Good insight! Can you tell me more about how the person with the higher investment in a certain issue has less power?
They have more to lose. When someone goes all in, as opposed to someone only putting in a few chips, when they lose the hand they lose it all.
Glass by the sink is the gateway drug to chronic slob disorder. It started out innocent, with the same ‘ I might use it later’ excuse. Then, after 9 years of sharing a household, I am dealing with laundry piles in every room, including dirty socks under the couch. Coffee cups all over the property.. Outside, in the car! It finally got so bad that he now refuses to use a trash can at all. I hold two jobs, no day off. He’s home by 4:30. I come home to an unexercised dog and hungry man. Tell me this isn’t worth getting mad over.
This is exactly my situation as well! I told him no wonder you can’t find any sock! They’re stuffed all over the house!
Don’t people ever cohabitate for some months or years before going forward with or saying “yes” to an engagement or marriage?? Seems like a simple way to “tease out” these issues, address the underlying needs, and form commitments from that point on or end the partnership.
Maybe cohabitation isn’t really a thing until all chips are in? I don’t know how people do things nowadays.
You’d think so, right?
I lived with my ex for two and a half years before we married. Then a year later we bought a house (well, really, I bought it). And then the changes in his behavior really set in. I mean, he’d always been a little messier than me, but no big deal. But all the sudden he was trying to get me to fetch him food and drinks and crap. (We were both working full time. I was the primary bread winner – which was fine. But I was neither his mother or maid.) And making snippy comments about my career. Oh, and then the recreational shopping got going.
…test driving doesn’t always pick up on these things.
Unfortunately most men will not gladly put the glass in the dishwasher when he’s done with it. He expects her to clean up after him the way his mother did. Never mind that she is exhausted and already has children. He sits. Oblivious to what her life has become. Drudgery. I can totally relate. And I left. And found what I was looking for. And lived happily ever after.
You’re making bold assumptions in this post. Is he exhausted? What has HIS life become? I find too often that women think everything is about them, not trying to understand that the man is also a person who has stresses and needs respect as well. Did he go to work every day? Did he have to come home and then help with the kids? Did you have free time during the day to check the internet, or watch TV while your kids were at school? Was he afforded the same luxury at his place of employment? These are hypothetical questions obviously because I don’t know you or your ex., but I have seen this all too many times.
The man blames the woman who expects him to be psychic.
The woman blames the man who just does not get it no matter what she says or does.
Both are right. Both are wrong. Both partners lose.
Once you were so happy together and loved each other with great joy. You sang, danced, laughed, shared and so much more, for so many years. Yet here you now stand.
Because they have tried all the ways they know and have failed, they think a problem cannot therefore be solved. How limited.
We live in such a selfish society. Marriage is for life. Except of course you didn’t read the small print which says it’s societally OK for either partner to abandon the marriage if they’re not getting what they want, stated or implicit, at an point in time, with or without notice, once some invisible line is crossed.
Marriage should come with a dozen good books and a year starter counselling. Not a few lines of promises that neither partner truly understand the gravity of until challenged.
Well said.
So very well said Simon!! Marriage is a lot of work, I think giving up is too easy for so many people today. I have been married for 30 yrs. at times it’s not easy but you “both” need to find a way to make it work.
Yes.
I think this is excellently written. My question is why is it solely incumbent upon the man to be aware of the hurt and pain that leaving the glass by the sink causes? Why is it not incumbent upon the woman to consider the hurt and lack of appreciation that a man feels when he is verbally castrated for leaving a glass by the sink in spite of all of the other things he does for his wife? I have many other thoughts but will stop at just these two questions and hopefully will get some valuable insight from the readers…
Because she IS respecting him by doing all she does for him. He gets a break but she doesn’t. Cleaning up after kids is one thing, cleaning up after your husband and PARTNER in life is another. I can’t explain it to you. I think he did a great job explaining it himself.
He never states what she does for him so you are assuming she does. Does he clean up after her? Sounds like he might, he just doesnt make a big deal of it. Does he fix things when she asks? Choosetobehappy has a valid point.
You make an excellent point. My boyfriend (of 7 years) leaves his dirty clothes on the floor RIGHT NEXT TO THE LAUNDRY BIN, and it used to infuriate me, leading to an anger-filled evening of either loud screaming or even louder silence. Now, instead of getting angry, I try to think of something he does/has done for me to counter what I now consider to be a petty annoyance. Case in point: This past weekend, he spent hours shoveling a path through 26 inches of snow so I could get to my car without my feet getting wet. When you compare having to pick up a few pieces of clothes to hours of backbreaking work, it seems really ridiculous to get upset about that pile on the floor.
You’re an endangered species. Not many women have that mentality. Instead, they would rather feel crucified every day than try to be objective when they consider these matters.
Excellent point, Valerie, and I thank you for making it. As another woman, I was getting pretty embarrassed while reading this justification for a woman demanding a divorce because of “what the glass symbolizes.” What an immature (not to mention incredibly solipsistic) reason to retract solemn vows and lifelong promises. Men are constantly doing unpleasant, difficult and dangerous chores while rarely complaining about it. We also had a huge storm recently and every person I saw outside restoring power and clearing a path was a man! When the toilet breaks or someone scary knocks on the door, my husband handles it. I just hope all the men don’t wake up and decide it’s not even worth trying to please women anymore.
Telling your partner to tidy up after themselves if most definitely NOT verbal castration. If you can’t see that, you must *really* be afraid of being castrated. How unsexy.
I am a wife, and when I read this article I was really appreciative of both perspectives shown. I didn’t realize it wasn’t about the glass (which is funny because we have similar probs) which it of course isn’t. I thought it was just more work he was leaving me which sucks. But I do relate to it being about feelings instead and am grateful for the insight of both sides. Maybe if I explain my glass prob with my husband the way he explains it here it would make more sense. Thankyou for writing this. I’m sure many men and women will benefit from your hard earned lesson.
I am going through a situation now that this was very helpful for. It’s not a glass by the sink exactly–the recent issue was that I asked him to call a doctor’s office about an insurance issue before an appointment on Tuesday–the office had closed by the time he called Friday, so he was going to call Monday. Monday at lunch I sent a reminder text (and I feel like a nag when I do that), and he texted back that he would. When I saw him at 7:30 Monday night, I asked if he got that resolved (again, feeling like a nag), and he said he didn’t get the chance. I let him know that I wish he would tell me if he wasn’t going to do something, so I can find another way to get it done, and he got really defensive about it, like I didn’t understand why he wasn’t able to do it. I resonated wtih the post when it said that the woman didn’t feel like she could depend on him or trust him. This is totally where I am right now. I really don’t want to have to keep an issue on my radar if he has said, “I got this–” I like to be able to let it go. He loves to “make” me and the children happy–he likes to be the one that did the great thing–but what I really want is for him to do the things that he said he would do, and if that’s not possible, to tell me right away so I’m not in limbo, wondering if it’s off my plate. My temptation is to just not count on him for anything–and if that were realistic I’d probably already be there.
That’s ridiculously backwards. If he didn’t do it in the first place, she wouldn’t say anything about it and his poor delicate ego wouldn’t be dented. It’s entirely under his own control – he can stop himself from feeling so hurt by just putting the damn glass in the damn dishwasher.
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Thank you! Finally a man gets it. I wish my husband would. Yes he works but I ALSO WORK Raising 3 kids and trying to keep a house together while babysitting other people’s kids is hard work. I never feel appreciated. Even if he works (commenting about the comment seeinblackandwhite made on another comment) He can still help with little things around the house. I, as a full time wife and mother, also need a break from the day to day. Need to know I am appreciated and cared about. Thank you for explaining this the way you did. I am sorry to hear you figured it out to late.
Have you read the 5 love languages books!!! This is often talked about. Love love love!!
Nice article.
This article was the eye-opening intro to the most productive and resolution filled conversation of my relationship. This has been my cry for weeks, and your well written perspective on a parallel issue was the catalyst for mutual understanding like never before. Thank you.
Pretty lame that you link this article to the subscription. Annoying.
Thanks for the helpful feedback!
i understand the whole “symbolic” thing but lets face one simple fact, she is your wife, and as such you are her husband. as someone once said “there is no I in Team” and this very much applies to relationships. i have been in a relationship for little over a year now and while i have done a lot that i should have been more considerate about, my partner has also acknowledged that she is no saint. the thing is, no one is perfect, every one will have their little quirks and even though she does some things that REALLY irritate me, i would never want to leave her even though she does them over and over again. just as i have done things over and over again that bugs her. but thats life, people are not perfect and to divorce someone because they have a little issue that annoys you is preposterous. if you love someone it can be overlooked. from the information we have its not like he was hitting her or harrassing her. if me and my partner have an issue with the behaviour of one another we talk about it, and we try to better each other. sure the cup might have been really important to her but if you love someone you forgive and forget. also i can not stress enough have important proper communication is, me and my girlfriend would have broken up long ago if we were not properly able to communicate. men are not mind readers, and women are very complicated. no matter how much you deny it, its how nature made us. you NEED to communicate. and another thing, many people think that marriage is all glory and happiness. no thats not the case, marriage is as hard as single life if not harder. the point of having the partner is to RELY on each other, as so you do not have to rely on yourself. and one person is not supposed to support two people like so many people think, the couple is to support each other not one support one and not one support two. sorry for the long post lol
The author says that he should have simply put the glass in the dishwasher, even though he had a legitimate reason for leaving it out. He also says that it’s not important for him to understand his wife’s motivation: “I don’t have to understand WHY she cares so much about that stupid glass.” It should be obvious to anybody who is in a healthy relationship that, in the face of conflict, simply capitulating to your spouse and swallowing your resentment is NOT a healthy strategy.
A healthy strategy would be to communicate about the conflict and to negotiate a mutually satisfactory compromise. For example, if she asks him to put away the glass, he could explain that he leaves it out for a valid purpose–to reuse it without dirtying a second glass. She might then respond that she understands his reasoning, but then explain that having a cluttered counter makes her feel like her living space is dirty (or whatever her motivation might be). Knowing that she values a clean counter top and that he values reusing drinking glasses, a simple compromise might be to devote a small portion of cupboard space to holding his used (but unwashed) drinking glasses. And of course, their are innumerable other compromises that any two competent adults working together should be able to come up with. (Another perfectly legitimate compromise would be for one or the other to realize, “You know what? This isn’t REALLY that important to me. I’m happy to just do things your way.”)
Now, throughout these comments, I have read over and over the refrain, “It’s not about the glass; it’s about respect.” I grant that respect is crucial in a marriage (obviously!). I have no doubt that this guy was a disrespectful husband in other ways, and I have no doubt that many of the people commenting on this post have disrespectful spouses. However, I reject the notion that it would have been a respectful strategy to simply capitulate to his wife’s wishes when they conflicted with his own perfectly valid behaviors and values. If he respected himself, he would have maintained that his own behavior was legitimate. If he respected his wife, he would have assume that she was mature enough to work out a compromise with him (and so that’s what he would have tried to do). If his wife had respected him, she would have worked with him if he had tried to work something out.
Finally, people keep posting things like, “Ugh! My spouse is the same way! He/she tracks mud onto the carpet every day no matter how many times I ask him/her not to!” Please notice that these examples are different from the dirty glass example in at least one very important way: The author had a perfectly legitimate reason to leave a dirty glass by the sink, but your spouse (probably) does not a have a perfectly legitimate reason to track mud onto the carpet.
Totally agree
I agree. He says and people here comment that he should have respected her and do things her way. But that assumes her ways is the only and/or right way to do things. His reasons are totally legitimate. She also should have had respect for him; the arguments he makes cut both ways!
To some extent it then comes down to which of them it matters more to, which requires them to be able to talk about it.
If I leave a glass by the sink absently because, in the back of my mind, I think I might use it again, but I don’t really CARE about it, where my partner is really deeply bothered by that glass being there, it would be nice of me to remember not to do that. If, on the other hand, I am deeply upset by the prospect of wasting energy by washing multiple glasses when I only needed one, then some different solution is called for, because “just default to her feelings” would be silly.
If it’s important to both of you, you need to find a compromise you can live with. If it’s only important to one of you, then it’s polite to go along with the one to whom it matters.
YES!!!!!!! This is SO well written and exactly explains the stress/frustration/pain that this “small” glass causes. Whether it’s a glass at the side of the sink, dirty clothes on the floor, or something else – this is exactly what it means. Thank you.
I totally get this, and basically was the exact woman in this article. And, I divorced my husband. As a woman who worked 55 hours a week compared to husband’s 40, also took primary care of our son, and took care of basically 90% of items that need to be done to run a house, I needed some help. I needed support. It starts out about the glass, then turns into not feeling heard, loved, appreciated, respected, valued. Seeing someone sitting on their butt while I’m busting mine is not a loving relationship. It’s being taken advantage of. If not addressed early and clearly about what’s happening, divorce or infidelity are likely inevitable. It starts out harmless, and shifts meaning over time.
This is ridiculous. Everyone on here should grow up and stop acting like such victims. A glass or the symbolism of a glass ? First world problems ! Toughen up you whiners. If you don’t like it stand up for yourself. You’re all victims. Poor me.
Interesting. For my birthday, instead of going somewhere or doing something, I requested that we knock things off the house upkeep list for a weekend. We generally are able to communicate well, but for some reason he leaves 80% the housework to me. What he sees as annoying tasks, I see as keeping up our home. The same way he looks after his cars, I want us both to keep up our home. It is about respect, but it is also about priorities. He prioritizes things that give him a sense of worth over our home and me. I wouldn’t divorce him over this, but he pushes me away everytime he devalues our home and family through his actions.. He will be getting this article to spur a conversation.
It dawned on me recently that what some men see a as wanting a guy to change is what I view as continual growth. We no longer have parents to look after us so we need to be the adults.
Reblogged this on lycrawidow and commented:
*how many times do I have to ask you NOT to leave your wallet on the windowsill*
It’s the same as the glass. Yes. We’re irrational we ask you to do bullshit things like hang your coat a certain way, or ALWAYS put the baby clothes in the wash (rather than leave them scattered on the floor) on the grand scale of things, these are very very teeny little things. But. If you don’t care about the little things, how can we trust you to care about the big things.
I’m not asking you to hang your coat facing left to be an awkward piece of work. I’m asking you to take 3 seconds to think about me. To think about the time I spent sorting the wardrobe and to respect the time I put in to making our home the way it is.
Somebody made a movie about this with the genders reversed.
It was called SLEEPING WITH THE ENEMY.
On another note, there are a couple of pieces of information needed to give this context:
Did you do more than a token amount of chores around the house or did she do most?
Who got more upset with the other person in the confrontations about this issue?
Would she treat a friend or family member this way?
If not, why is it acceptable for her to get bent out of shape because you don’t comply with these niggling demands?
Last, what did she do for you? This post makes it sound like the only thing she did for you was grace you with her presence.
This post was so depressing it made me doubt my heterosexuality.
Its not just about the dishes. Its the principle of the thing. Come on! There is a dishwasher right there! Why leave it in the sink! It does get frustrated having to tell a grown man what to do over and over again
But divorce is a drastic step to take. There probably was some underlying issues going on in the marriage.
Courtesy. Boils down to courtesy. I enjoy bringing hubby a glass of water when he watches TV. For him to leave it by his chair instead of bringing it to the kitchen AS HE PASSES THROUGH on his way to bed, leaving it instead for me to pick up after him, is rude and discourteous. I am his partner, not his maid. He used to use the hamper as a basket ball hoop for his clothing. Except if he “missed” he’d leave them where they landed. I’ll gladly do laundry… But I would get PO’d if he left them on the floor, because it was discourteous to me to have to pickup after his quite capable but lazy a$$. It is NOT respectful to create more work, ANY amount if work, for someone else to do when your arms aren’t broken! When you don’t clean up after yourself when living with others, even though if you lived alone you’d happily live like a pig, it translates to “I’m worth more than you and better than you.” And “I don’t give a S about your feelings.”. It only takes a second to be responsible for yourself. If you make the mess, you clean it up. Even if it’s just a glass by the sink if she’s already loaded the dishwasher and cleaned up the kitchen. Thankfully, our relationship has lasted this long because we’ve learned that it’s important to listen and give the other respect and to love the other the way they feel loved, not simply the way either if us think the other ” should be satisfied with”.
And let’s not forget that pithy and churlish little response wives find really hot. Not.
“Yes, dear.”
For gods sake it’s just a bloody glass who cares where it is, I would hope life is far more valuable than to waste it worrying over crockery, get over yourselves!
This is the kind of thing where most people offer general principles based on biased anecdote, and we are long on anecdote.
Any two people are going to have differences of expectations in their relationship. Unless you have an objective foundation to support your expectations, then neither set of expectations is any better than the other. For example, is it morally wrong to be a little messy? Whether you say yes or no, you have to be able to offer an objective reason why that’s the case in order to say that your expectation for cleanliness is any better than anyone else’s.
Judging by the anectodes given here, most men have lower expectations for cleanliness than most women. Most women resent men for it and most men are baffled by women’s resentment. Why? They don’t understand each other’s expectations. Clearly, then, a lack of understanding differences in expectations is at the heart of the matter.
So, for my own anecdote as an example:
I know for my wife, she’s typically pickier about things than I am. Picky wins the day, but whoever is the pickiest has to put up with being the boss because the expectation is that the other person always has to do things the pickier way. If you don’t want to be the boss, don’t be so picky. Lower your expectations. For me, I typically defer to my wife because I’m not picky, but she typically settles for a less than what she expects because she doesn’t always want to have to be the boss. If I’m going to clean the house I’m going to do it my way, and she will have to put up with my level of satisfaction that it was done right or never be satisfied that I met her expectations. But my deference to her is that I give it shot. I try to do my best to meet her expectations. Consequently, it’s easier for her to accept that I won’t meet them perfectly.
When I saw that my newly married daughter had posted this article on her Facebook, I first thought, “Oh the struggles of the first years of marriage.” But then I read the article, and it reminded me of how much my husband used to hate it when while watching TV with my husband late at night, I would often unhook my bra, pull it through my shirt, and fling it on the the arm of the couch—leaving it there until morning; an act he utterly hated. So with that in mind I felt compelled to comment on my daughters post with this:
“In 20 years of marriage I have found that there are years where it was your Dad leaving the glass by the sink and just as many years (or more) that it was I leaving the glass by the sink. And years where both of us left the glass just to see who would break first. The article is spot on as long as one remembers that just as many men leave their wives over the “quasi” dirty glasses. The key to navigating the dirty glass is communication, listening, hearing, learning, and evolving; all of which continuously cycles through a strong marriage.”
I wanted her to know that the dirty glass issue goes both ways and although it is a comment problem, how it is dealt with is sadly uncommon and your article is on pointe and she should head the advice just as much as her new husband should. Marriage is hard and sometimes it truly sucks, but if they continually work on respecting each other, it can be a strong and wonderful marriage.
Thanks for your insight…your words.
If your husband was upset you removed your bra …. well I think he ought to have felt blessed
I get the overall point of the article and that I cannot disagree with. Of course we should be good to our spouse and try to please them as best we can.
That being said, there is something very wrong with the premise of viewing a menial unfulfilled request as an act of betrayal.
I realize we live in a day and age where people believe that they are never wrong for feeling a certain way. While that sounds good, it leads to stories like this. Yes, you can be wrong for feeling a certain way if your feelings are based on a poor interpretation of the act that was committed. The author doesn’t appear to be the type that viewed his wife as a servant. He had logical reasoning for his actions and refusal to roll over and do her bidding. Given what we do know about him, I can conclude that his wife was indeed dead wrong for feeling like he didn’t love her over something so small and stupid.
Are people so oversensitive, that they look at something that’s so insignificant as leaving a dish around the sink as an indication their spouse does not love them? I realize this is metaphorical and applies to other things, but I’d say the same about them as well. To me, it’s more disrespectful to expect your spouse to adhere to your every command about little things like this than it is to leave a pair of socks on the floor or whatever. Does he not share the house with you? Is he not your equal? I see a lot of women saying they don’t want to be his mother, yet it appears they have no problem acting like his employer. He should have a say in how the house is run as well, or is it really not about equality but subservience to your every whim? Maybe there needs to be some communication and some compromise and not just a “do as I say” mentality. I am not in anyway advocating someone be allowed to live like a slob, but there needs to be a balance and a mutual respect for the other person.
I see a lot of women here acting like everything they’ve been told by outside influences have just been affirmed by this story. The sad thing is they will never look in the mirror and question themselves about if they are being unreasonable or flat out wrong in their expectations. They are all special snowflakes that can do no wrong apparently. Instead of looking at what their man DOES do for them, they instead will look at what he doesn’t. Do you understand that you also do small things that annoys your husband? But the difference is, he just might not take it so far as to think they are acts of hatred. He probably just gets annoyed and moves on with his life and looks at the bigger picture.
There is no good marriage that would breakup over small things like the story talks about. There are much deeper issues that would lead to something like that becoming the tipping point.
Men, if your wife does leave you over something like this and fails to recognize everything else you do for them, then you are better off alone.
“I see a lot of women saying they don’t want to be his mother, yet it appears they have no problem acting like his employer. He should have a say in how the house is run as well”
This, this is where the problem lies. For many women, including myself, the problem is that their partners are not the slightest bit interested in running the house. Instead they seem to think that the house magically maintains itself. We would love it if our husbands wanted to have a say in running the house. Anything, any opinion at all! That would show that they actually notice what is done around the house.
As for the comment, which several people have made (all men, strangely) that she can’t have divorced him over this and there must have been other underlying issues, I think you have well and truly missed the point of the article. You could try reading some of Matt’s other articles to try and get a fuller understanding. (Which is the steady accumulation of disrespect by not showing interest in couple/family life and not prioritising couple/family life.)
A glass is just a glass to a man. Just like sex is just sex. Women look at the glass as “if he is not willing to put the glass away what else is he doing behind my back?” Women connect events together – like “I had to ask him 19 times to take out the trash – why would I want to have sex with him?” It’s give and take in a woman’s mind – not just black and white. That is why men are from Mars – just different wiring but everyone needs to try to understand each other and what makes that person tick.
I have a full understanding of what the article is saying. It would be terribly sad for a person to let little things like this breakup a marriage. In fact, the person who would do such a thing needs to be slapped (metaphorically speaking) and told to get a clue. If your man loves you and doesn’t take you for granted, then odds are he is showing how much he values you in other ways.
If my wife were to chastise me for forgetting to do some menial thing and accuse me of not valuing her, my mind would think about several things to say back:
“So fixing the car in the freezing cold so we save some money isn’t a display of affection.”
“Spending endless weekends fixing up the house doesn’t count either I suppose.”
“Spending Friday night watching shows I have 0 interest in just to spend time with you doesn’t mean anything either.”
I wonder, what most of the women here would say if their husband said refusing any of the following means you don’t value or love me:
Watch a sport they hate every weekend
Be intimate more frequently than they want to
Tell them a certain way the house will be decorated
Something tells me I would be told I’m crazy, and rightly so.
I’ll say it again, I’m not advocating for a man to do nothing around the house, but for people to not focus on petty little things that are not being done for the reasons they think. Allowing things like that to creep in your mind makes your spouse into an adversary rather than a mate.
Actually, you don’t know what it’s about. I know because I wrote it, and that’s not what it’s about.
It’s not about my wife “chastising” me. And it’s not about my wife getting upset over “little things,” though that’s EXACTLY my point in writing it because so many husbands think and feel that way. Just like I did at the time.
When you understand that the dirty dish, or the laundry on the floor, or the forgotten task which gave her one more thing to worry about is part of a VERY LARGE and comprehensive pattern of super-common boyfriend and husband behaviors, ALL of which convey (whether you think it’s rational or not–it’s still true): “I care more about what I want than I care about you. Your feelings and opinions don’t matter to me. I don’t respect you.”
They don’t leave because of the one-time, little thing.
They leave because, in their estimation, you don’t love and respect them.
How much does it matter how correct they are, if the marriage is going to end and you don’t want it to?
There’s a better way.
And it’s not labeling things “petty.” It’s thoughtfully caring about whatever the unique demands of your specific wife and marriage require you to care about to have a high-functioning, quality, satisfying, mutually beneficial relationship where EVERYONE feels loved and respected.
And I find it annoying in ways my vocabularly can’t express that so many people somehow have a problem with that.
And they would be wrong to think their mate doesn’t care about them if they are doing many other things that show love and appreciation.
There is a better way: Act like a rational adult and talk to your spouse about these things. If they are decent, they will compromise. Don’t play games and expect him to know you’re engaging into such a ridiculous line of thinking. Women are capable human beings, they can talk about these sorts of things if they so desire.
What doesn’t work: Rolling over and doing everything you are asked to do for fear of being divorced. I can tell you for a fact, women do not like a man who does that. They like someone who will stand up for themselves if they feel it’s necessary. There is a difference between being a controlling jerk and a man with a backbone.
Again, I’ve said this plenty of times on other posts; what I wrote is not defending being a slob or an insensitive jerk. It’s not about being the “king of your castle” either. It’s about both people trying to understand each other and that they most likely are being showed love, but are not seeing it. To look at the example you gave and conclude your husband doesn’t love you is simply lazy. Take the time and look at him as a person and what he does for you, not what he doesn’t(for the 100th time saying that).
There was one woman who made a post that was great advice. She said she used to get upset at things like you mentioned, but then she realized he did things like shovel a path for her to get to her car so she didn’t get her feet cold. She then understood that he really does care about her. She saw the other things that I’ve been telling women to look at in their men. This woman as I replied to her is a dying breed. It’s a tragedy there are not more people like her that have a better understanding and appreciation of their spouse. Many women here would be wise to read her story and reflect on it.
But somehow I don’t grasp the concept of the article. Let me clue you in Matt. I too have a wife who at one time was like many of the women here. If I didn’t clean the way she wanted or left something out, it would be war. We almost divorced for this and other larger issues. But guess what? I didn’t change just so I could save a marriage. No, I demanded to be treated with respect that I deserve as a spouse and to be appreciated for giving the efforts I did. Had I rolled over and did everything exactly how she would like, then we probably would have divorced because I would have resented her, and I certainly would not have lived under a roof where I had to live with the stress of having everything I do run through quality control. That’s not a marriage, that’s servitude. My marriage survived, and it’s better than it has been in the past. We are both happier with each other more now than ever. So before you think that I don’t get it, remember, I’ve been there and survived the storm.
You’re starting to live up to your name, eh?
Anyhow, the mistake here is thinking you get to decide which actions qualify as showing your love and which don’t. You think that because you fixed the car and (gasp!) let her pick what’s on the TV Friday – things your SO may not care all that much about – you shouldn’t have to do something she DOES care about.
Because you decide what should matter to her and what should not, apparently.
Do you think your wife would agree that your relationship is better off because you made demands for the respect to which you think your entitled?
hypocritical much? So a guy expressing love,a certain way isn’t valid because his SO doesn’t care about those things, should then go out of the way to express love in ways he doesn’t care about? I’m not contending your point, but you have to admit it’s a bit one sided eh? You would be surprised to find out that I believe a relationship works best when both strive to do what they can to make the other happy. However, both sides need to be reasonable in their expectations.
Gee, I’m a terrible person for standing up for myself and not letting someone yell at me because I didn’t clean THEIR way in OUR house. You’re not making a very good case here…..
Yet again you show your hypocrisy with that.
Yes, my wife would admit it. In fact, we fight 1/10th of the time now than we ever did back in those days.
btw, she does care about those things. See those things I mentioned are examples, but they are also sacrifices that I make, and I’m sure many other men make as well.
I’m not sure you know what that word (hypocritical) means. And ease up on the straw men, huh? It’s unbecoming.
Again, this stuff is simple.
People – men and women – should express their love in the way their significant others can best receive it, not in the way that’s most convenient to themselves, and certainly not in the way they dictate should be satisfactory to their partner.
Sorry, but try as you might (and you seem to be trying really hard) you don’t get to decide how others want or need to be loved, any more than they get to decide how you want or need to be loved. And if either party is unwilling to love the other in the way they need, then the relationship is doomed.
At what point did I ever say I get to decide how a person needs or deserves to be loved? Please point that out to me. And as you reread my post searching for a phantom quote to back up your reply, I hope you understand the overall point I made about people being understanding of the other and maybe seeing the good that they do, and how they might be expressing love in other ways.
At no point did I say a person shouldn’t try to love someone in a way that’s meaningful to them.
Funny how you never touched on the part of my post where it asks what a woman would think if a man asked them to do certain things, and then accused them of not loving them if they don’t comply……Nope much easier to lash out and accuse me of not having a clue how this works.
the ability to edit a post would be fantastic…
Equally humorous is you failed to even give this line: “You would be surprised to find out that I believe a relationship works best when both strive to do what they can to make the other happy. However, both sides need to be reasonable in their expectations.” any sort of thought. Does that sound like I’m advocating what you accuse me of?
I don’t have the time or inclination to read all your posts, but here’s a few examples of you making yourself arbiter of what are and are not legitimate ways to want/need to be loved:
“I can conclude that his wife was indeed dead wrong for feeling like he didn’t love her over something so small and stupid.”
“Are people so oversensitive, that they look at something that’s so insignificant as leaving a dish around the sink as an indication their spouse does not love them?”
“The sad thing is they will never look in the mirror and question themselves about if they are being unreasonable or flat out wrong in their expectations. They are all special snowflakes that can do no wrong apparently.”
“If your man loves you and doesn’t take you for granted, then odds are he is showing how much he values you in other ways. ”
“And they would be wrong to think their mate doesn’t care about them if they are doing many other things that show love and appreciation. ”
That was quite easy.
Anyhow, it’s apparent that you don’t get it and – more importantly – actively are choosing not to get it, so we can just agree to disagree and move on.
AngryGuy ….
I made it clear several times that what I’m saying pertains to both men and women.
Nice cut and paste job. But the problem is, they fail to show the context of what they were pertaining to.
And if you don’t have the time or inclination to read my posts, yet reply with ridiculous assertions, then I guess I can understand why you can’t grasp my point.
You just proved my point about assuming and how ridiculous it can make a person look. Thanks for that.
Thank you, my exact thoughts regarding this blog post.
My husband works. I stay at home with our son and have for the past four years. My husband agreed that doing the dishes and taking out the garbage would be his chore, and for the most part I do all the other chores in the house. The problem is, I CONSTANTLY have to tell him to do these chores and many times just do them myself. He will leave dirty dishes all over EVERY SINGLE DAMN SURFACE in the kitchen. To him, it’s like he’s the one responsible for the cleanup, so he doesn’t care about not rinsing things off or the mess he creates. But, it isn’t he who must sit in this house all day going (literally) crazy (from lack of socialization, feeling inadequate for not advancing a career or making financial contributions to the family, among a host of other things). It isn’t he who must see this mess all day every time he walks into the kitchen. It’s ME. I have to see it, and smell it, and push it out of the way until I’m finally tired of telling him to do it and just do it myself. I feel like I am no longer his partner. I feel like the live-in maid and babysitter. And you’d be dead wrong to think I haven’t expressed this sentiment a thousand times.
Does your husband force you to stay home? Did you choose to have a baby? Seems like you are upset that you’re a stay at home mom and want to blame your husband for the lack of social life you have created by having and choosing to stay home with your child. Does your husband wish he could spend more time with the baby? Does your husband have to deal with things he wishes he didn’t while he is at work? I’m not saying he shouldn’t be empathetic, but it always seems to be a one way street. he can help at home, can you go to his work and lighten his burden?
I totally agree that these little things mean so much to my wife, but where i get upset is it seems no matter how much I do “i do nothing”. I could have mowed the yard, changed the baby, fed the baby, folded laundry, did the dishes, and mopped the floors, and yet i do nothing. I also get tired of the constant man bashing i see and hear. Not all of us are jerks and losers just like not all women are perfect saints around the house.
I work hard too. i get tired of things too. Like leaving stuff on the bar that i just cleaned off only to be cluttered with things she just brought in the house.
I feel the same way. I’ll be the first to admit that I have plenty of room for growth and being better around the house. But if you ask her (and when we fight, whether you like it or not, the truth comes out) I do absolutely nothing and contribute nothing, and she does everything.
Not where I’m standing. And I’ve taken to making a list of what I actually contribute financially, as well as having an actual “chore chart” to show exactly who does what and when. It’s truly frustrating though. They want to talk about respect, it’s disrespectful to NOT acknowledge ANYTHING your partner does for you.
That dish to me represents his temper, his self-loathing, his insomnia, his illogicalness, his losing jobs, his having sex with me and then leaving me in bed alone to go watch tv until 3AM, his addiction to tv/laptop and all gadgets, and lastly and most least, his lack of ability to not function without detailed instructions from me. Yes, he has ADHD and other undiagnosed issues and what is worse is his refusal to get therapy and or meds for his ADHD. Choose your battles, is it a dish or is it much more? The point still remains: if someone loves you, they see what is important to you and if it is costing you your marriage, the would do all they can to save it and put away their pride. Some people are more resilient and long-suffering than others. In my case, I have decided to stay married but move on emotionally and reach my goals because he is frozen, where he has been for years, even after my explaining what is important to me, to be seen and not just fill the role of sister, mother, therapist and doctor also to feel secure and reassured in our marriage. Really, it’s about respecting how your behavior is hurting someone you love even if you don’t see it.
I wish everyone the best. Much love.
Actually, this is inaccurate. Most men do not want to focus on the “big picture” because they know they will be implicated if they do, not because of “genetics” or “hunter-gatherer” mentality. Women are less likely to ignore the “big picture” because they have nothing to hide, unlike the man.
Men want to also make women feel like they are being petty, because this way he gets out of having to address her concerns.
Here is a much better source for dealing with shitty men!
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/131380.Lundy_Bancroft
http://lundybancroft.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-abuser-crusade.html
http://lundybancroft.blogspot.com/2014/03/who-is-controlling-one.html
http://lundybancroft.blogspot.com/2012/01/am-i-abusive-one.html
http://lundybancroft.blogspot.com/2014/12/but-i-let-him-do-it.html
http://lundybancroft.blogspot.com/2012/04/when-his-put-downs-sound-true.html
BTW, men LOVE to blame biology on everything because it gets them off the hook and if they blame female biology for female problems then it covers up the fact that MEN are to blame for female problems.
Yeah, women are perfect and never petty. Get real.
What does “the man” have to hide? The work he does to provide for his family? The running around when she doesn’t have to? Is it too much to have some recognition? That’s the bigger picture that women do tend to ignore, especially during arguments. It’s all about this short-sighted issue that’s conflated into “you never do anything” which is patently false.
Thanks for those links!
Haha, man hater much? You’re so off base its unreal.
You ever hear a woman blame her problems or current bad mood on hormones? Nah, that never happens. Biology exists.
This is simply excellent. Thanks! As a woman, I would add that we don’t get off the hook for taking responsibility too. This related article goes nicely with the above: http://andrealarochelle.com/2015/01/crumbs-in-the-butter-conflict/
Good post. People need to feel cared-for in their marriages, and if they don’t, they come to feel lonely and isolated. And nobody signs up for lonely-and-isolated when they get married. And clearly, the glass in the sink was a fail in terms of your wife feeling cared-for.
It’s akin to what Gary Chapman is talking about in his book about Love Languages – we need to learn how to speak our spouse’s love language, but most of us only know how to speak our own, so the love we hold in our hearts kinda falls to the floor, as if we were speaking Swahili to a Japanese-speaker.
If your wife is telling you, “I would feel really loved and cared-for if you would just put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher,” you’d have to be kind-of a jackass to respond, “That’s stupid; who would feel loved by that?” And yet it happens all the time, as you describe very well here.
When this particular penny finally got all the way to the bottom of my psyche, my wife began to refer to my sweeping the kitchen floor as ‘foreplay’. . .
From a woman’s perspective, I can say that when my man won’t do something as simple as placing a glass in the dishwasher, repeatedly, it does make me feel unappreciated because it is such a simple request to grant. The reason these, “little” things makes many of us feel so undervalued, is because we spend time on meaningless tasks and chores every single day, whether we work outside of the home or are homemakers. Traditional male tasks, are usually of a more permanent nature. You may spend 2 hours, repairing a leaky faucet, and it usually lasts for years. A woman can spend 2 hours making a meal or doing laundry, and the meal is consumed in less than an hour, or the laundry is ready to be washed again within a week. I think this may be the reason that we get so upset when our small requests are ignored,
This article is poignant on so many levels. Acts of service are critical on both sides of a relationship. “When you choose to love someone, it becomes your pleasure to do things that enhance their lives and bring you closer together, rather than a chore.” Once it’s a chore, someone has stopped caring which cascades into resentment and bitching. Once someone starts bitching, they aren’t feeling heard = not feeling respected = not feeling treasured. Game over. Love ends.
These seem like the sad ramblings of a man who wishes he could get back with his ex-wife, even though they would still end up killing each other. He goes on and on about how terrible he was as a husband, but makes no mention of any “wrongs” his wife may have brought into the situation. It’s as if the reader should assume his ex-wife was perfect, and this poor chap just screwed it all up by being “selfish.”
Relationships are a two-way street, from beginning to end. If his wife wasn’t willing to shoulder any burden for the collapse of their marriage, and he isn’t willing to place any of that responsibility on her as an equal contributing partner, it’s no wonder they got divorced.
It sounds like these two need some serious therapy to really evaluate themselves. The author of this article needs to get some STAT… the simple fact that he thinks some better decision making could have “made” his wife happy is deeply troubling. It demonstrates the depths of his delusions and own dysfunction, and how he has no concept of personal boundaries or how healthy relationships function.
This is a perfect example of why 50% of marriages end in divorce.
1. This is not the sad ramblings of a man wanting to be with his ex-wife. She’s great and everything, but I promise it’s not happening, and no one wishes it was.
2. You NAILED the end. Great job. It’s the PERFECT example of why 50% of marriages end in divorce!
Which is precisely why I wrote the damn thing. Maybe someone who doesn’t want to get divorced might learn something from it.
It’s sad that so many misread what you wrote. With those attitudes, it’s surprising that the divorce rate isn’t higher 🙁
I learned!!! I learned something I promise! 🙂
So many people have missed the point of this blog. They are taking it literally. That’s a shame!
I enjoyed your blog post! And, I “get it”.
Quite possibly the single best article I’ve read on relationship dynamics. It’s not about the glass people. It’s about love, respect and trying to UNDERSTAND your partner. Thank you this great read!
I’m glad I’m not the only one who understands this post!
Loved the article – but now the REAL question is, was the glass half empty or half full?
If it’s not half full, none of us have a chance.
I choose hope. It’s half full.
Me too!
Matt what a wonderfully written post! Marriage is certainly a challenge that takes a lot of patiencd and understanding. You had several very valid points in regards to the different perspectives. It’s all about learning how each other sees the situation and how to handle it in a loving, mature way.
Hope this article brings a lot of light to those struggling in their marriage.
Thank you for being raw.
– Ashley Pierce
Thanks for sharing. This hit the heart hard for me, especially “When you choose to love someone, it becomes your pleasure to do things that enhance their lives and bring you closer together, rather than a chore.”
Show me you love me, don’t just SAY it. The main point of a marriage (to me) is to do things that make your partner happy just because it makes them happy. And you’re full of joy due to their happiness; working to grow together instead of apart. Wanting to do things willingly and sacrificially, not because you understand them or even agree. And i’m not talking about hurting yourselves to get there, i mean it in the same sense that he’s trying to get across here, to SHOW love! It’s a verb, “action word” my friends.
I lived this life for decades not the “eat shit spouse” life, but in my relationship I always placed their happiness and needs above my own. No one is perfect I certainly don’t claim to be, I’ve left my share of dishes by the sink. While I continued to do what I “had to do”, my spouse generally lived in the whole “eat shit” mentality noted above. So i was always the lonely one, and yet they had an affair. off topic a bit i know. Sorry!
And NO it’s NOT my fault. Don’t care what anyone says, nothing is perfect. When you’re reaching out to someone else, essentially begging for their attention, wanting to have them involved in your everyday life, continuing to be intimate AND striving to keep them happy and they cheat; they’re the selfish party there isn’t a “two way” street issue here.
Any how, Now I try to be this “finding pleasure in enhancing my spouse’s life” type of person I used to be, but can’t stomach it. I no longer go out of my way to make the little things happen any longer. I’m fearful that it will never come back.
Reading this post has made me take a deep look into my heart. I really never noticed things like this . It was always me trying to get my spouse to see my point of view. They’ll never see it, because they don’t want to.
So thank you again for sharing your life, someone should give you a medal. You’ve learned lessons in divorce that I hoped my partner would have learned during our marriage and brief separation. They continue to live the “eat shit” way and don’t see it. I shared this blog with them and got the “well you have to try hard too”. i’m exhausted of it.
and I purposefully tried to make this gender neutral.
I honestly think this is really simple:
You married the wrong person.
I think a lot of people end up marrying the wrong person. You can’t make every relationship work. Sometimes they just don’t. Regardless of how many words you want to write on the subject, it doesn’t change the fundamental aspect of this situation: Your wife is obsessive compulsive, and puts way too much meaning in something that is entirely meaningless (meaning is not self-generating; we impart meaning into our lives, and we choose those things which have meaning. WE CHOOSE WHAT HAS MEANING), something that you–rightfully–don’t put any meaning into. I do like to reuse my glasses; it’s really stupid to use a new glass every time if I’m drinking glasses of water all day long. It’s illogical, it’s a waste of space in the dishwasher, it’s a waste of my time having to get a new glass every time, and it’s a waste of dish soap. All of those are more valid reasons than “I’m obsessive compulsive and I don’t like dishes on the counter”. What if I explain to her why I do it? Relationships are two-way roads; changing your behavior because your wife is petty is basically saying “you can do and want whatever, and I will cater to it, no matter how crazy it is, because it’s easier than actually talking to you about this and having a rational conversation, and trying to reach some sort of compromise. All of your expectations are reasonable, no matter what they are!”. That’s what I got out of this piece: Don’t talk to your wife, don’t try to make her understand, just cater to her compulsions.
Now, on the other hand, I do put the toilet seat down; I understand it. It’s logical. It makes sense. So do requests like picking up your dirty laundry. Hell, I’ll make the bed, I don’t mind. Maybe not every day, but I’ll do my best! I’ll throw away my leftovers, take out the garbage, wash my sheets once a week, and try to change my boxers at least once a month, but putting a glass in the dishwasher doesn’t make sense. It isn’t logical. I’m not going to cater to compulsions. That would be facilitating my partner’s neuroticisms. I fail to understand how suddenly imparting meaning into something that is meaningless because your significant other is petty enough to become legitimately upset about it is good relationship advice, but, then, the only relationship advice I ever give is this: Don’t trust relationship advice. Every person is different. There is no universal “truth” or “way of doing things” that will make any and all relationships work out. If my significant other doesn’t like me leaving my glass next to the sink we’re not going to be together very long. It will be a natural process of realizing that we aren’t right for each other. Or, how about this? Maybe we talk to each other and work it out. Maybe she realizes it isn’t actually important. Maybe she has a rational reason to want the dishes in the dishwasher, and I’ll be convinced by her reasoning to change my actions. I’m not going to change my actions to assuage your meaningless and petty compulsions; that’s reinforcing negative behavior that serves no purpose. I might as well start eating dog food because you think it makes my hair look shinier. Where does it stop? When do you say “hey, this is ridiculous, I’m not going to cater to your every desire just because I’m your husband, and I love you, and want you to be happy!”? I’m a real person, too, and my wishes are just as valid as my wife’s, except, get this: I would never break up with someone over something as petty as them leaving a glass on the counter, and I would never want to be with someone, love someone, and be loved by someone, who would reject me for something that is inherently meaningless, totally petty, and ultimately inconsequential. Break up with me because I’m not satisfying you spiritually, or emotionally; break up with me because I’m too cynical, or I carry too much pain with me; break up with me because I don’t take enough showers and I never wash my sheets; break up with me because I drink too much or don’t take care of myself, or support Donald Trump.
Here’s some advice: Be a good person. Be yourself. Constantly try to improve as a person in both concrete and abstract ways. If those three things aren’t enough to overcome the smaller details that arise in every relationship, you’ve married the wrong person. Love isn’t always enough, but understanding and compatibility aren’t created in a void; they must be there from the beginning, and they must be cultivated by both parties.
(I’d like to make it clear that I do not, in fact, support Donald Trump. Thanks everybody! Happy ‘shipping!)
Also, who the heck left the knife in the sink? Now THAT is a legitimate complaint. You should never, ever leave a sharp knife in the sink.
I honestly think you are a sock puppet of Matt! same word usage and writing style and use of CAPITALIZATION to stress words like THAT or A LOT. also same sarcastic tone.
Nah, I’m a chameleon. I write in whatever style I just finished reading. If the OP uses lots of capitalization, I will do; I don’t usually, even though my ultimate team’s name is ALLCAPS. But, yeah, I was trying to mimic his sarcastic tone. I’m actually the last person from whom you’d ever want to take relationship advice, but, then, my advice about relationship advice is to not trust relationship advice.
So, yeah, I don’t know what I’m talking about, really, I’m just criticizing the stuff I can criticize, because (and this is an ancient truth), it is far easier to criticize someone else’s work than it is to create something original.
I should really use my energy to try to write something original, but, then, it’s far more likely someone will read my comments on another post than actually reading something original I’ve written.
You’re so very very close, but can’t quite bring yourself to understand.
You readily admit that “Every person is different. There is no universal ‘truth’ or ‘way of doing things’.”
And yet just a few sentences later you declare that wanting a glass put away is a “meaningless and petty compulsion” and, later, it’s “inherently meaningless, totally petty, and ultimately inconsequential.”
So, which is it? Is every person different and allowed to make their own determination of what’s important? Or are you the sole arbiter of what is and isn’t meaningless? Because your argument here tends to skew toward the latter.
The very (and I thought obvious) point that Matt is making here is that just because something is unimportant and trivial to you doesn’t mean it MUST also be unimportant and trivial to your significant other or anyone else.
If you truly cared about your SO and wanted the relationship to work, you would pay heed to the things that are important to him/her, even if you personally find it to be trivial. And in doing so, I think there’s a good chance you’ll find that your SO will do the same regarding what’s important to you, but maybe not so much to him/her.
If instead, you through words and actions repeatedly show disdain, indifference and/or contempt for the things he/she finds important (like, say, declaring them “petty and inconsequential”) don’t be surprised if the relationship ends in a way you find unpleasant.
This goes for men AND women.
Really, this stuff shouldn’t be so hard. It’s checkers, not chess.
Very eloquant rebuttal!
Had to read this far down to find a single comment that articulated my issue with this article. Well said and thanks for providing a reasonable counter argument.
Nailed it.
You sound pretty obsessive compulsive yourself. You don’t know a damn thing about why he fell in love with this woman, nor are you qualified to label her with a psycological disorder. Besides, who gave you the authority to assess whether or not they were/are compatable? Who God has brought together let no one tear apart.
Well, you just undermined your own argument by invoking a “divine power”.
I don’t know why he fell in love with this woman, but it’s pretty clear he shouldn’t have married her. I’ve fallen in love with plenty of woman, and loved a number of them with all of my heart and soul; as it turned out, none of us were compatible with one another.
Successful relationships are about a lot more than just “being in love”.
And, well, I have the authority to make judgments and express opinions on a public forum. Thanks!
Goodnight and good luck!
Just the biggest amount of nonsense I heard on my life. Life is bigger than a freaking glass or small chorus because someone might not like it. Just try to focus into something larger than this crap.
If couples would not expend time bickering or talking nonsense to each other, may marriages would not be over. This article is just try to justify that men are not sensible or disrespect women job at the house.
If a woman is at the point of feeling disrespected or unappreciated because of this small things, is because there are much more deeper problems with the couple and the dirt glass is just the justification that one needs to express his/her frustrations.
Biggest problem lies when couples do not communicate in a clear and straightforward way since the beginning and then resentment just starts to build up until a point that even if the husband breathing noise will bother the wife.
Just stop picking into the smallest things in life. Life is bigger than house chores and similar, when couples understand that, life will be much more better. Dishes, rubbish, dust, all this stuff it does not matter how many times you clean, it will always come back and get dirt again. Love and respect does not come back once you lose it, so just thing about it, what is more important in your life as a couple, love and respect or a sparkling clean house?
I LIKE ANGRY GUY!
i think Angry Guy needs a hug
Like others have stated on some level, both sides are wrong. Wives shouldn’t take thoughtless “mistakes” by husbands as “oh he doesn’t appreciate what I do” (most of the time it’s just men not remembering, our minds aren’t constantly running like women) and husbands should do their best to be mindful of such “important” things (since women seem to tie all sorts of things together). But to make a big deal of acts by either side is too much.
Either way both sides need to do their best to be mindful of where the other is coming from and be okay with many a reminder from both sides since he doesn’t always see that she needs the sink to make food or she doesn’t see that he just got home and needs a little time to unwind and waiting a few minutes wouldn’t kill her. It should never be that she always gets her way or that he always gets his way, and as long as effort is being put forth by both that should hopefully be enough.
i showed this to blog post to my husband and he is a changed man. What this blog post brought to light is just the turth
This is amazingly insightful. I can see you’ve gotten a lot of negative feedback; but this article is great…you get it!! I have clients who have divorced because by the time they come to see me, the wife is in the EXACT place you are talking about and she has checked out. It’s all about being selfless, putting the person you love before yourself and working on the need to always have things seen your way. Well done!
I really enjoyed your insight and sensitivity. I’m sorry your marriage ended, and that is between you and your ex, but it seems to me, that it should have been salvaged, but again, that is yall’s decision. As a woman and wife, I both understand your wife’s frustration and what this represented to her as you so aptly explain in the blog but I equally understand what you are saying about where YOU were coming from and in my opinion, both positions should have been respected and neither should have been a deal breaker. It is very hurtful however to have feelings ignored when one has clearly explained them more than once. I get that not everyone feels the same way. My hb may never feel the same way I do. I may never feel the same way he does. But I do have the expectation that we must show appreciation and respect for each others feelings, and love for each other. I don’t feel like my hb always does that for me. Thanks again for your article and understanding.
I am sad that you learned too late about respect for your wife. What she needs, not what you think she needs. It’s a huge turnoff for a woman feeling that she’s her hubby’s mother and he her naughty child. She needs an equal. A marriage is a partnership, a meeting of minds, with the way we live debated and agreement reached after much discussion.
My hubby is so much nicer since he retired. He has changed beyond recognition into a helpful, foresightful person. He’s skirted the edges of the destruction of our marriage many times over the years and always managed to pull it back from the precipice. He’s a very clever man.
No amount of rearranging the events in your life will bring you any lasting peace, accepting what is will.
Requiring your partner to be something just because you deem it nessesary, is a ship that will never reach port.
I know this, my first wife told me I have no ambition and never made enough money, my second wife says I spend too much time trying to make money…… until I found myself laid off now she says that she’s more capable of responsibility then me. Bottom line, it has nothing to do with your spouse, it has to do with you excepting your moments as they are not needing anyone else to be anything other than they are. Peace…… and you might want to read the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle
Loved this!!!!!! Very well written!
You TOTALLY get it. Thanks for the post!
It’s not just about men getting it. It’s about women getting it, too.
“It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of.” should be the quote of the decade!
Unless the “I got this” applies to putting together the family budget, picking out the movie tonight, hanging pictures on the wall or picking out paint colors — or anything suggesting we should have sex when the guy would like to. What is most sexy for women is “I got this as long as this is something you want me to handle at the time you want me to handle it”. The whole glass thing is kind of ridiculous – it is one extra step to put it in the dishwasher, but if I’m working all day and my wife stays at home – I would think there would be some expectation that she should handle a bigger load of house duties since the house is her office similar to at my office I don’t expect her to be responsible for my duties. Also – when I get home from work it isn’t time for her to sit and take a break while I pick up on house duties or children issues. I’m not going to plop down and watch TV and avoid what needs to be done, but neither should she. I did just work/drive 10 hours so should I be expected to have the house baton handed to me to work solo for the rest of my awake time that day while she recovers or rests as the article suggested? I think both people need to realistic and understand that if you do more of your part then what is expected then most of the time people will be happy. However happiness and emotion are difficult for men to rationalize. How can you have a discussion that can be resolved if the side of one of the parties is, “because it made me feel _____” and fill in the blank. Love takes work on both sides and divorce can’t be an option because of a dirty dish….seriously.
Out of a few thousand comments, I’m surprised the sex issue hasn’t been spoken of more. Thanks for mentioning it, Get Real.
One person’s chore is another person’s feeling loved. Most guys need sex to feel loved. Most women won’t do it if it feels like a chore. Most women want men to do some housework in order to feel loved. Most men won’t do it if it feels like a chore. It goes both ways.
Sometimes, even if you do the chore to make your partner feel loved they may still not do what to them is a chore in order to make you feel loved. You do it anyway. Many times, however, you do the chore and your partner responds with what makes you feel loved because they feel loved and it no longer feels like a chore. That goes for both sex and housework.
The one thing neither partner should ever do is give up trying. The reason is that while it is reciprocal, it isn’t a trade. You should do the chore because you love and want to demonstrate that love. You shouldn’t do the chore because you want to feel loved in return.
You miss the whole point of the title of this blog, dude! One dirty dish isn’t the reason she left him, it’s that she felt under-valued for the things she did, as far as making their house a home.
Reading this blog has actually made me more grateful for the man I have. Yes he does little things that irk me and make me feel under-appreciated, but he is kind and great hearted. We made love for the first time in a 2 weeks, because I wanted to show him that I still love him and find him attractive, even though I’m disappointed in him for not valuing the cleanliness of or home as much as I do. If was married to someone who thinks like you, I would leave you for something as petty as a misplaced dish. But, of course it wouldn’t be about the dish, it would be due to irreconcilable differences in ideas about gender roles.
At least Matt, the author of this blog is giving serious thought to his ideas, attitudes and actions that led his marriage to fail.
One idea that a couples therapy session suggested which was soooooooo helpful is that:
A couple is to make a LIST of ALL household tasks that need to be done – and then each person picks and chooses which takes they liked to do (or could do without hating it too much). Then, a contract was drawn up – with each person signing to be responsible for THOSE TASKS.
There’d be no arguing b/c of the agreement and you wouldn’t have to do something you think your partner should do. Also, suggested keeping out of the “level of standards” comments, i.e. just let your partner do it her/his way and you do your tasks your own way.
Wow, this is so true! Well said!
One idea that a couples therapy session suggested which was soooooooo helpful is that:
A couple is to make a LIST of ALL household tasks that need to be done – and then each person picks and chooses which tasks they liked to do (or could do without hating it too much). Then, a contract was drawn up – with each person signing to be responsible for THOSE TASKS.
There’d be no arguing b/c of the agreement and you wouldn’t have to do something you think your partner should do. Also, suggested keeping out of the “level of standards” comments, i.e. just let your partner do it her/his way and you do your tasks your own way.
Now if someone doesn’t honor the contract, that’s another story. You could argue about that, but there’d be no misunderstanding about who does what. Not doing the chore would mean you were not being a team player or were tired, had no time due to a heavy work schedule, etc. but that could also then be discussed.
You typical lazy, self centered couch potato. When you put the cup by the washer you know SHE’S got to put it in the dishwasher then put it away. But your justifications, ‘Iay use it again’ bull! ‘I don’t do it if I know we’re having company’. Proves you know better and don’t want guests to know your a lazy slob with no empathy.
Somebody missed the entire point of the article.
Someone needs a swift kick of reality.
You obviously missed the point of this article.
Did you even read the whole article?
Did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason that you despise doing yard work so much, is cuz it’s a task that you know you are gonna need to repeat over and over? This is what MOST traditional woman’s work is like, and it’s also why little things like not placing a dish where she requests, makes her/me feel so unappreciated!
Wow…. Been trying to explain this type of thing to friends and family and feel all alone and ridiculous.
It’s just these types of things that make me feel belittled and stupid.
Thank you for putting into words how I feel.
Being disrespected chips away at a relationship until you resent that person so much the love fades and it can have such a terrible effect on your own self esteem.
It just breaks your spirit to fight a fight you know you will never win.
You cannot understand why such a small thing is so hard for them to do.
Don’t they just get sick of the constant battle too?
The tension in the house raises and can even make me physically sick.
It effects the way you act around others and that’s not fair to anyone.
I thank you again for your post, I am praying my husband reads this and thinks hard on this matter and will give it the thought it needs.
I know exactly how you feel. I am in the same situation.
Phenomenal. Just plain great!
Maybe just relax about the goddamn glass instead
You missed the point of his post, which is bang-on. Try reading it again with an open mind and heart please.
My ex husband was notorious about leaving the dishes anywhere but the sink. It drove me crazy. He also refused to put the toilet seat down so the girls and I wouldn’t accidentally sit on the nasty rim. It took several times of practice to state my case to him that showed a real problematic issue with it. It’s nice to know that I’m not bonkers for feeling bad about it. I’m sure this story will help many others too.
“Caring about her = a million little things that say “I love you” more than speaking the words ever can.” Says it all. Thank you.
You are absolutely spot on with why she lathed the glass in the sink. I have gone through the same emotions as my husband behaved exactly like you behaved. And yes, we are on our divorce path. The only difference being that he does not see my point of view and being an Indian man he things all this is below his intelligence. I just wish more men understand these trivial things that bother us women and also women need to be a bit more rational. Thank you for the wonderful article!
the glass will need to be moved. it will need to be moved when the next meal is prepared. it will need to be moved when there are no more clean glasses. it will need to be moved when it attracts pests or begins to smell. it will need to be moved when you forget about it, because you both know you aren’t going to suddenly decide, 45 minutes from now, that you don’t need it after all and go put it away then. it will need to be moved when an unexpected visitor arrives who (for some reason) you wish to impress with your cleanliness even though you have no similar desire to impress your wife. it will need to be moved because seemingly small items like this work in concert to make a dwelling smell bad.
it will need to be moved for a multitude of perfectly rational reasons that do not need to be reduced to “girlie feels” because you are unable or unwilling to give them thought.
but she knows, and you ought to know, that the only thing leaving it by the sink accomplishes is to increase the odds that the 4 second task of moving it falls on her shoulders rather than yours. she knows that it is one more way of communicating that certain tasks are beneath you, but not her. she knows that this is not about earning respect from her (with your generous condescension to her inscrutable womanly feelings) – it is about showing respect *to* her and not assuming she has nothing more to do with her time than be your maid.
What is sad is when instead of doing what has been asked is that they do everything else instead of the necessary, then think that everything is fine and what you need done doesn’t matter.
Simple truth
This read got me reading. Please follow
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I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
‘Hey Matt! Why would you leave a glass by the sink instead of putting it in the dishwasher?’
Did i miss something here?
Yes. You did. I didn’t know millions of people who aren’t familiar with my story and writing would read this.
“If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it” is in reference to my wife needing help with a new baby, or if she wanted to spend a couple hours cleaning the house on a Saturday morning, to ask me for help and tell me which jobs I could do to help out (because I wasn’t going to wake up on Saturday and choose to do it on my own.)
This isn’t about wives bossing husbands around. It isn’t about being submissive or subservient.
It’s about I agree with being equal partners, but I don’t love chores, so I’m going to do them less often than you’d prefer unless you ask.
Over time, that shit REALLY wears on your wife and girlfriend. Because it puts them in a mothering role insofar as the responsibilities of life and task management are falling entirely to her. It’s fun getting boss paychecks, but it’s actually not all that fun being in charge of people who require constant hand holding. Spouses don’t want to do that for free either.
I didn’t mean anyone’s spouse should TELL THEM what to do. I meant a competent mother who knows what a two-month-old baby needs more than I do, instead of letting me guess wrong on what would be most helpful, can just tell me what to do to help.
It was somewhat poorly written in the context of how many strangers were reading this not knowing anything about me or what I believe.
I’ll have you know it’s been a learning experience, and a frustrating one, read thousands of people miss the point entirely and then be dicks about it.
So. Thank you for not being one of those.
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Can’t get that 5 minutes back I just wasted!
This is an excellent article to help men understand how women feel about small things that they think should mean nothing. But women need to take a look at themselves as well and try to do determine where they are failing to respect and validate their significant others or husbands as well. Women tend to only see the wrong in others and forget to evaluate where they could improve for a better relationship as well. Takes two to tango.
Ummm, I think all people have the capacity to see the wrongs of others before they see their own. Not just women.
Sorry. But this is First World, out of the ball park pettiness! To end a marriage over such a trivial thing. To dismiss all of your other qualities! Try explaining to the kids who are dealing with the detritus of a busted marriage over such parheticness! Any woman who ends a marriage over something like this, will only drag the same shit in to the next marriage. She will never find real happiness
I’ve been having this argument with my husband this week. He didn’t listen to me and yeah it was little stuff that I said or asked but each time he didn’t do what I asked it was like he was giving me his middle finger and saying “f-you” I’ll do what I want. I’m glad a man understands that listening skills are just as important as communication skills to make a marriage work!
We need to accept that there are neurological differences that make women better at this sort of task. For instance, research has shown that wives can find 65% of the ticks on their husband’s body, while husbands can find only 25% of the ticks on their wives body .
The bad thing is that the tasks that women are better at are undervalued in our economy. I used to work in a legal department of a large corporation. The women were administrative assistants/paralegals. The men were attorneys. The men were paid more, even though in fact they could not function without women helping them on detail oriented tasks. Once we had a male law student doing the women’s jobs, and he just wasn’t as good.
Men are more aggressive and get more money.
Equal pay for equal work has to be extended to cover these a linked differences in what people are good at.
The dirty dishes in the sink when the dishwasher is empty, a trail of wrappers etc in the kitchen instead of using the trash can, the greasy black hand prints all over the white doors and white fridge,
Mothers…..raise your sons a little better!
And, yes, it from a lack of respect.
Just mothers? I’d think that fathers would be way more instrumental in the raising of sons.
Fathers, raise your sons better!
Just a phrase, that’s all.
No disrespect intended, but I think your wife needs therapy! She is going to leave you over one dish! How picky can one be! I can’t imagine what will happen when the children leave out a dirty dish?! Homes are made to be lived in, not immaculate all of the time! My first husband tried that and I tried to do whatever wanted to make him happy. I could never have a dirty dish out, then it progressed, I had to keep all of the cans perfectly aligned in the shelves and then no dirty clothes…EVER! Then when he blew up because I had placed an egg carton crooked back into the fridge, I knew at that point, he would always find something to get annoyed or angry about. There was no pleasing him. You sound like a kind gentle soul. You sound like a very reasonable loving person. You don’t deserve to be treated that way! Do you know what happened after four years of that marriage? I had a complete nervous and mental break down. No one can live like that forever. Walking on eggshells. Your wife is OCD! There is no doubt. OCD is caused by anxiety, not the other way around. Another words it’s not the OCD giving her anxiety, but it’s the anxiety that’s giving her OCD. She needs therapy to overcome her controlling behavior. I feel so sorry for you that she has you coward into believing that if you leave one, not even dirty glass out that she will leave you. What kind of loving wife would put you under so much pressure. Isn’t there so much more to worry about in life??!! Be reasonable people. Life is too short for this kind of stress. Being a good husband and provider is hard enough. I bet you are a good provider, a loving and faithful husband, one who is supportive and very much concerned with her every whim and passion. What about your needs. I know you aren’t thinking of them too much. But you could reverse it all on her, most men would and say…’If you love me you will let me keep my glass out by the sink, in case I want to use it.’ I’m not saying start a war with her. But please get therapy. She has you so brainwashed. I’m sorry you are in such an abusive situation. Have you ever seen the movie: Sleeping with the enemy. The way she is acting is how the husband was and he was considered a monster. Everything had to be perfect. She isn’t physically abusing you like this guy did his wife. But she is mentally and emotionally. She is threatening to leave you and take away everything that is dear to you. My heart just bled for you reading your post. I am so sorry you are going through this. This is just my perspective. I hope you guys can get help. You just don’t see how bad it is right now because you are like the frog that was placed in cold water and put on a very low burner. He never noticed the water getting hotter, but eventually he cooked to death. The same has happened to you my friend. You have been psychologically cooked into thinking that you are the bad guy here. That you have done something wrong. But it is you who is actually being tormented and mentally abused.
I put my husbands glass in the dishwasher, pick up his clothes and anything else he leaves laying around… it’s my way of taking care of him and letting him know I appreciate every ‘little/big’ thing he does for me. It’s part of the way that I love on him. We are about to celebrate 30 years of marriage. I’d say we have a great ‘loving/working’ relationship. Women want it all. I love how hard men try. Thank you for your courage to write and I believe somewhere out there is a woman who would be honored to put your glass in the dishwasher. ♡
Hi Pam. Thank you for this perspective. A lot of people have been missing the point, but I don’t think you did.
The husband-wife disagreement could be about anything. And it could just as easily be a wife upsetting a husband (though I identify more with the reverse).
But what you just said Pam puts a nice visual on my entire point.
You appreciate your husband. You feel he respects you and works hard to be a good partner, putting in effort both big and small to actively participate in your partnership.
Because he does those things, you would NEVER turn a small thing like a glass sitting by the sink or a pair of socks on the floor into a marriage crisis.
The dishes are not a marriage crisis. The dishes are a result of a marriage crisis. A trillion and a half people never got that, and I’m so glad that you did.
And I’m so glad that you could provide an example of what it means to love and serve our partners in ways that are mutually beneficial to both.
It’s not a power grab. It’s not a blame game.
It’s just, love and respect one another, and the petty spats so many have in their marriages that pile all the way up to divorce filings stop happening altogether.
Its more of a lazy way of living….most men me excluded are lazy in the home. If the woman works and the man stays at home,its her who doesn’t take her cup out,its her who leaves her shoes in the lounge..its she that become lazy in the home !
I’m with you as long as the man also gets the appreciation and respect he deserves for doing things like home repairs, being the home’s IT department, or other tasks that women typically (not always of course) don’t do.
I hope it goes without saying that I don’t believe men should give and give and give and give and placate and appease and serve their wives without receiving respect, love, appreciation, support, encouragement, forgiveness, etc. in return.
A marriage is ONE thing.
But it’s built from two parts. And those two parts must both be strong and maintain their integrity for the ONE thing to last.
Wives must do their part. But since I don’t know what it’s like to be a wife, I don’t worry about it.
I know what it’s like to be a husband. One who got a bunch of stuff wrong. And I don’t just think, but know, there are a kajillion guys out there just like me.
I write these stories so that the small percentage of men who read it, identify with it, and care enough to use it in their personal lives might somehow benefit.
It’s hard for me to know what that looks and feels like on a case-by-case basis. But I get a lot of nice notes suggesting these stories do that very thing.
Thank you for being part of the conversation.
I think everyone is missing the point here. It’s all about communication and how you say things. Men hate being belittled , they aren’t mind readers . I take the approach have fun with how you say things I even add a little funny accent to it , to make it fun . My fiancé once said this to me and it suck ” I love that you don’t yell at me to do things , but rather when I do the little things you thank me for them and notice, it makes me want to doors for you and appreciate you in so many ways . Yes us woman tend to do a bit more , but I feel that comes from this mentality “we’re powerful were strong , but then complain when we took on all these responsibilities bc we instinctively do these “chores” I am a mother of two kids under 3 , plus work 50 hours a week and laundry and kids and dishes exc…. We devise the work and help each other out ” tomorrow is your day to sleep in I got the kids , then the next day mine . “I’ll cook dinner tonight , you got Tomm babe I love those amazing enchiladas” it’s acknowledging each other’s strengths to work on those opportunities . Love unconditionally . Is it always a walk in the park no lol but do I want to spend my already hectic exhausted day fighting with the man I love or enjoy the time we have .
I don’t know if it works that way for every woman, but it sure does for me. Husbands, we love taking care of you, as long as it isn’t taken for granted or assumed it is our duty. Getting the dish or glass to the counter but not all the way into the dishwasher is a taunt. “See how much of a ‘not slob/good guy’ I am! But it really IS your job to pick up after me, so get to it!” Get over yourselves.
Yes. And no.
It is perfectly reasonable to not be entitled or act like a child. It is most definitely helpful to not take our spouses (or anybody) for granted, and disrespect their work or efforts by being piggish or self-centered.
However.
It’s good the guy is being reflective, but might be being a bit too mea culpa – no doubt shaken by the collapse of his marriage and ensuing heartbreak.
We all have strengths and weaknesses, and the best teams figure out ways each player can contribute according to them.
In a teamwork situation, creativity and communication is critical. In the example given, if each party felt the situation was intractable -he just couldn’t do the dishes on a predictable schedule and she couldn’t help but feeling resentful – they coukd have switched to disposable cups, or better yet boxed up every glass but two necessitating washing the glasses and ensuring they would never pile up. (I’ve used both strategies in my life to accommodate my own shortcomings.)
Lastly, I personally view marriage as “in sickness and health”, and if the lack of respect he talks about was endemic to their relationship, I feel it could (and should) have been worked on within the bounds of marriage. None of us is perfect, and we are all capable of growth. He shows himself to be a reasonable and thoughtful guy, and I applaud him for taking ownership and pursuing growth. Something tells me that he was the only one in his marriage capable or willing to do that.
There are two issues here. Neat and clean are not synonymous and only one is optional. Your wife has a personal preference for neat counters and you decide to respect that particular preference. Cool. Maybe you don’t like her clutter on your side of the sink. Ask her to respect that.
The other issue (which you confound with the first) is with regard to fairness in the distribution of work. Dishes MUST get washed. If you are okay with dirty dishes on the counter but put them all into the dishwasher without being asked before the pile is unreasonable, then that’s fine. If you are assume that someone else should be do it, then that’s not fine.
You didn’t get it. Read again
Here’s the thing. Every time an article like this is written it is from HER perspective. Yes her feelings are as equally valid as his. No, she is not his maid. Yes, he needs to be aware of her feelings. Herein lies the rub…he has feelings too. Believe it or not men have emotional needs as well. And we are easily appeased, if you would accept that by putting my glass in the dishwasher is a symbol of thanks for potentially selling his soul to the corporate machine so as to provide a particular quality of life for you you would reap the benefit 1000 times over. Bitching at a man over a glass, that he presumably bought, not being placed in the dish washer, again that he presumably bought, after he spent yet another endless day dying inside so that you can have a stainless steel dishwasher in “you” custom kitchen is a sure way to show a man just how little you actually value him. here is a secret for you women out there…it takes a lot less effort to make a man feel valued that it does a woman. Putting his glass in the dishwasher without a scene will more than likely get you another 20 years of love and support because that “4 second act” is a great way to say thank you.
Weary one, you’re missing the point. First, this is written from a man’s point of view. Second, yes, he goes to work and pays for everything. It is more likely that she also goes to work and pays for things and is tired of coming home and having to clean up after an adult who is capable of cleaning up after himself. But lets say she is a stay at home wife. She generally wakes before him to make coffee and possibly breakfast. She works all day taking care of his children, running his errands and making his home worthy to come home too. He comes home, empties his pockets on the counter she spent an hour cleaning, throws his clothes on the floor she had to clean before she can even vacume, and leaving a dirty glass in the sink she spent time emptying and cleaning. Leaving the glass there is effectively saying, “I have no regard for the time and physical effort you put into making my and my childrens lives better and nicer”. How would he feel if he spent all day at work doing paperwork only to have his wife show up and place a stack of paperwork, that she was able to complete herself, in his “in” box without so much as a “Thank you.”? A housewife is “paying” for those things in services rendered. When someone undoes everything you’ve spent all day doing, it’s a total slap in the face and very disrespectful.
I don’t understand what your point is Matt and I think you’ve missed the author’s point. If you and your wife are both creating extra work for each other in equal measure and workloads are roughly equal (and I have no idea whether you or your wife think they are) then nobody really has the right to complain, but in the author’s article the workloads weren’t equal which is the case in most hetero relationships (loads of evidence; women do the majority of the work in most relationships). She was also generally meeting his needs as is evidenced by the fact that he was happy and wanted the marriage to last but he wasn’t meeting her’s as evidenced by the fact that she left after repeated warnings of unhappiness. He has catalogued what he himself admits is a small portion of his behaviour on this blog and I don’t think many women would or could have stayed. There is no happiness in this kind of relationship for women and no reason to stay.
For as long as there are men who think like you Wearyman, there will be women walking out on them. There is a huge body of evidence that shows that women do the lion’s share of the work in the majority of marriages – most of them not only work for money outside the home, they then come home and do a second shift, being expected to do the bulk of the housework and the childcare and also the husband care, providing him with the kind of emotional support that she does not usually receive from him in return. She also puts her life and health on the line to deliver his children and may well be dealing with the consequences for her health for decades after having her last child. Maybe it’s time men started doing things as a thank you to their wives for being the ones who hold the relationship and the family together. Why you think a woman would want the kind of relationship you seem to offer for another 20 minutes let alone another 20 years is beyond me. Matt’s wife also no value for herself in this kind of relatoionshio and he is now single.
So this is my home. My day usually kicks off driving my eldest son to work as he doesn’t yet have his licence. Wife is tucked up in bed. Come home tend to our two young daughters breakfast cooked for wife and girls. Wife is out of bed by 8-8.30ish breakfast is cold. Work all day, wife goes to park, play centres or catching up with friends. If she cooks dinner it is often left overs from the night before, or I cook 3-4 nights per week. Together we bath or shower our daughters she does the bedtime routine and then has the audacity to complain if there is a glass on the sink. Now I feel if hubby is slogging away all day, just leaving a glass on the sink is no big deal. What is a big deal is the sense of entitlement that is creeping into so many areas of people’s lives and working together to make things happen.
Sorry – posted in the wrong place; this is in response to Matt:
I don’t understand what your point is Matt and I think you’ve missed the author’s point. If you and your wife are both creating extra work for each other in equal measure and workloads are roughly equal (and I have no idea whether you or your wife think they are) then nobody really has the right to complain, but in the author’s case the workloads weren’t equal which is the case in most hetero relationships (loads of evidence; women do the majority of the work in most relationships). She was also generally meeting his needs as is evidenced by the fact that he was happy and wanted the marriage to last but he wasn’t meeting her’s as evidenced by the fact that she left after repeated warnings of unhappiness. He has catalogued what he himself admits is a small portion of his behaviour on this blog and I don’t think many women would or could have stayed. There is no happiness in this kind of relationship for women and no reason to stay.
And I think the author would also say that if something is really really important to your partner and takes you a few seconds to do, then why not just do it? If she was making loads of unreasonable demands that required a huge amount of the author’s input, time and effort it might be different but she wasn’t and this was something small that he could have done for her to make her happy. I also don’t see the point in putting a glass in the dishwasher right away if I might use it again and I am not tidy by nature but if my partner was and this stuff really mattered to him I would just do it to make him happy, assuming he did things for me every day to make me happy. The point is partly that doing things to make your partner happy is the key to them not leaving you. And many many men (not you necessarily) don’t understand this.
Such an insightful piece of writing. It’s always goes deeper than the dishes. Thank you.
It is almost never about the glass…….90% of the time anyway. I have no excuses here. My wife and I have been married for 16 years. I am constantly blown away by my wife’s accomplishments. She is a full time student finishing a duel master’s degree. Making it 3 total she will have gotten. She does 3 times more in a 24 hour day than I do and on a 3rd less sleep. I work very hard too as a home builder and we have a full life. I don’t consider myself to be lazy. However I do believe it is about a partnership though. Helping each other reach their dreams and to live their best life possible. I will tell you I am not always good with this subject. I am stubborn and we have had many fights on this topic. She calls me the bulldozer, Lol. That’s how I handle things sometimes. Not good, I know…
So the other night I replaced a broken bracket on a window blind and saw this topic in action.
I had worked all day, picked up Jr., completed homework, cooked dinner, bathed Jr., put him to bed and did all the dishes. Then decided to fix the bracket. When my wife got home from her long day. She hugged me and asked how my day was. Then thanked me for cooking dinner and getting Jr. In bed on time.
But then she noticed the blind, Lol.
She was beside herself excited! She started raising the blind up and down! As I watched her…..I knew that she felt loved and cared for. In that moment…I became Superman.
Every woman desires to fall in love and marry a Hero. Not a Clown.
Heros are intentional. Clowns are fools.
I hope to be her Hero for the next 51 years.
Thank you Matt for the good read. I needed this today…I need this everyday.
Wonderful! We are simple creatures. We just haven’t been taught to use oud nice words.
You are on your way of a long and happy married life. Keep being helpful and loving. Your wife is a lucky lady, too!
I just love this..I can almost feel your wife’s excitement. .thank you x
And this is my point. Her hugging you and showing appreciation for your sacrifice was all you needed to motivate you to continue supporting her. Great job Superman, and you can be assured that your Lois will be there for the long haul.
You got it! Lucky girl and lucky you! Great read and response!
Men like you give women hope.
As for me. I’m a true bachelor. I haven’t made the same mistake once
As I watch my husband of 50 years rinse out his coffee cup and place into our dishwasher, I say a prayer for him, because I realize daily he shows me how he respects, loves and knows his little (and sometimes big) helping nature has allowed us to enjoy our married life. With raising 5 children, we work together, always a team. He does “women’s work” when necessary. I will mow our acre of grass when he is out of town, or before it rains. We pay our bills together, make our bed together every morning, allowing us to banter, share and discuss “stuff” that is important, or not so important for our family, and now as a “loving couple” again. My husband’s helpfulness is noticed by our friends and the women say: “Wish my husband would do that!” My boss once commented; “Is he always this thoughtful? He makes the rest of us look bad.” ( If the shoe fits!)
Our two sons and three daughters all helped with everyday household chores, especially when I went back to work. Our daughters-in-law, say “Thank you” for raising such great sons and “helpers”. Our daughters are well educated, hard working wives and mothers. They compliment and support their husbands in their endeavors. And visa-versa. They, too, work as a team. We’d like to think they learned from us how to be happily in their married life, too.
Most importantly, we pray together, and attend Church together every week.
God has blessed us in every way. Thank you, Lord!
Great post but you kind of missed the underlying sentiment. Of course a man needs to help around the house, in particular if you have children. My wife once told me the sexiest I have ever been to her was when I was doing the dishes. I can appreciate this sentiment but why is it that I am sexy and admirable when I am doing the dishes after a 12 hour day at work but her putting a glass in the dishwasher isn’t? This isn’t the 1950’s. Most men recognize the power in their spouses. Except for a few hangers-on men do not put the expectation of maid service on their wives. We appreciate and value the effort it takes to keep our homes. Bless the stay at home Mom!
It’s not about the f@#*ing glass. It’s never been about the glass. Read it again! Now in your mind insert the scenario that instead of the husband either consciously or unconsciously leaving the glass beside the sink, instead have the wife using her husband’s powertools then leaving them outside the tools shed door instead of putting them away. Do you see it now? The glass is not really just a glass. It’s really a bright and glowing F U sign. One that says I can’t be bothered to take four seconds out of my life for you so go pound sand. The glass is really a metifore for respect. It’s not a glass at all.
Your post at 8:56pm suggests otherwise with regard to how much you actually value your wife’s contribution to your home. Apparently you think she needs to pick up after you to thank you for your work as her work is somehow less valuable. Ugh.
Thank you for writing this It’s important and honestly, as a woman who has been married for five years and has had four children in that time, it really helped me understand some things about my marriage. I’m sure the ‘viral’ aspect sucks when you have idiots commenting… but I think there will be much fruit that will flow from this reflection. Thank you
This is exactly what it means to MANDERSTAND!! http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=manderstand
Great piece hun…
Where were you 20 years ago when you could have saved my marriage. My wife would tell you we had this discussion many times over the course of our marriage & I wouldn’t argue, but never in a way that made me understand what was really at stake. I always thought it was about the glass… until after our marriage ended. Then it all became clear… unfortunately, far too late.
The article is fine so long as EVERYTHING is equal. Let’s imagine a scenario where a stay at home mom has some children in school and she has free time to do as she wishes. Don’t get me wrong, staying home has it’s challenges, I understand that, but in my experience stay at home moms tend to downplay the amount of free time they have. Do they go to coffee with friends? Do they have time to blog or look at facebook? Do they have time to catch up on a few of their favorite shows? If so, now you have to ask yourself……Is your husband afforded the same at his daily job? Does he come home and help with the kids even though he has been working all day with NO personal time? Does he fix the kids bike tires? Does he fix the house? Does he mow the lawn? If this is your scenario and you’re still getting upset over the dish, YOU are the problem. You have a sense of unjustified entitlement and a belief that somehow everything is about you. If you are both working and living equal lives with children, then yes, the man should put away the damned dish, but if you’re expecting your husband to work all day to pay for your existence, then come home and help after you went to the gym or coffee with friends, get over it. He has feelings too and should be afforded the same respect you’re expecting from him.
Everyone has something irrational that makes them feel loved down to the souls of their feet. For this guy’s ex-wife, it was empty glasses being placed in the dishwasher, a four-second action and cheaper than flowers.
Are you really saying that there are employment situations which would stop you from showing your wife she is loved in a super-easy way that wouldn’t ever be misinterpreted?
Dude, that’s asshole.
Or perhaps you still think it is about the glass. In which case, you missed the *whole point* of this piece.
As a woman, I know that the irrational thing for my dude is a blow job. I could live a happy and fulfilled life never performing a single other one, but because it makes him feel loved, I gift him with them. I love him and I don’t just use words to tell it. Is it a bit of a sacrifice for me, given everything else I have to do and the fact that I rank performing one under scooping the cat litter box in terms of how excited I am to do it? Sure. BUT THAT IS WHAT LOVE IS.
No, what I’m saying is that it is a two way street and no, it’s not about the glass, it’s about attaching personal feelings to a trivial thing that you know is not done out of disprespect. If I were to take everything my wife and children do (or don’t do) as a personal insult rather than a window into their differing priorities and perspectives, I’d have left a long time ago because….. “nobody loves me in my house” would be the logical conclusion right? I know they love me because I don’t see occasional mistakes (or what I deem a mistake) as a sign of not loving me. Sometimes you just have to realize that you might in fact be the problem. If someone has decided to ignore EVERYTHING else a person does that shows them they love them and they chose to place emphasis on the ONE thing that bugs them, is it really the other persons responsibility at that point? And thanks for that vivid BJ story. I’m sorry you’d rather scoop the cat litter than do that. Maybe it’s time you talk to your man about how much you hate it……. That’s not what love is, sorry to break it to you.
I honestly don’t get the impression it would make her “happy”. I got the impression it was an expectation.. which fulfilling usually only brings “neutral” as a response. Generally speaking it’s a bad idea to have expectations of others that aren’t a) clearly defined between you and b) agreed to by both parties. The way she behaved was more akin to “being the boss about the kitchen” than it was about feeling “loved”.
WOW! So what you just said is that doing something that makes him happy in the context of intimacy is worse that playing in cat poop….what a hero you are (sarcasm). Here’s a little insight, if you don’t like doing it, he knows you don’t like doing it. Did you ever consider that this guy has spend 20 years of his life in an occupation that literally smothers his soul so that he can provide a lifestyle that affords her the luxury of a dishwasher? How about the fact that men may indeed be as simple as you women always say we are, and that by putting our glasses in the dishwasher is a way of showing your gratitude for not what we provide but the sacrifice we have made to provide what has been perceived to equate to a certain level of happiness for you? To simplify, by putting his glass in the dishwasher she has said thank you to him. Because he felt valued by that small 4 second action, he will work harder to provide more for her.
My wife of 25+ years is smarter, better educated, more loving, and overall impressive than I will ever be. When I come home from work, she will take my boots off of my feet and rub my feet. I have never asked for this, she does it to show me how much she respects my sacrifice for her. Stop complaining and just put the f-ing glass in the machine!
No everything is not equal, everything is never equal. The point is that if the roles were reversed and the man did the dishes all the time and the woman was putting dishes above the dishwasher it would be a personal affront to him. How much effort does it take to PUT A DISH IN THE DISHWASHER???? That is the point. Take a little time and effort to keep your area clean. It is elementary. Your mom must have taught you to clean up after yourself. Its not even washing it by hand, it is putting it into a box that washes it for you. Adults should clean up after little babies and small children who can not reasonably do it for themselves. My teenagers are extraordinarily lazy and would live in filth if I let them. But I teach them OVER AND OVER to clean up after themselves. They do their own laundry. They clean their own rooms. They pick up their messes. Is it unreasonable to expect an adut to do those things?
You know, I am actually one of those wives who is home when my kids are at school. I work part time, but you are correct that I do get to waste a bit of time on facebook, and catch up on some TV shows during the day (although quite often I am folding laundry or something while I watch).
BUT, my day also does not fit into a nice 9-5 box. I am up past midnight almost every night still doing household chores, cleaning up the kitchen for the next day, and making sure everyone has something clean to wear in the morning. I also don’t get weekends off, as the work still needs to be done on Saturday and Sunday. In fact, the weekend workload is bigger because other people are home making messes. When I take time off during the day when I am home by myself, I view that as my chance to relax uninterrupted. Because once the kids are home mid-afternoon and my husband is home for supper I know that my work day starts up again, and my husband can get some time to relax. A housewife might take time for herself during the day, but she does her work at all different hours, night and day (who gets up when the kids call out in the night? It’s always me in my house, and I’m willing to bet that it’s Mom in the majority of households). A lot of the work is very boring and repetitive. It sure isn’t glamorous, and the pay really stinks! But it is done for the love of my family. A husband who comes home and makes a mess without even noticing is sending a message that what his wife does is not important to him.
I am LMAO! A stay at home mom with tons of free time to do as she wishes? Most moms I know can’t even go to the bathroom without kids in there with her!
For moms who don’t work outside the home, their day is likely organized differently than yours. You may work 8 – 5 with no bathroom break, lunch or coffee while she may have a burst of things to do from 7am to 10am and then take a break from 10 – 1. Then she may have another flurry of work from 1 – 4. Then a break from 4-5 and another flurry of work from 5 – 9pm. You may relax and see your friends after work or on the weekends while she may relax and see hers during your work day.
Bottom line, the people on here who have successful marriages seem to have a mutual appreciation for one another. Those who have been divorced, have had contempt for their partners.
It’s legitimately terrifying the importance accorded to minutiae. I suppose the male-mind begins to despair that it cannot keep track of all the little pieces that seem to be of import, especially hard to keep track of them when they are given import, but they can’t understand why. And I understand that these minutiae become instances of something larger. An issue of respect, I suppose. But then is dwelling on the minutiae, essentially, passive aggressive?? As opposed to speaking to the heart of the issue? Because, if the heart of the issue is – I’m losing respect for you and I don’t feel respected – that becomes harder to say than “This glass is the last straw.” “This glass is the last straw” remains nonetheless passive-aggressive, and almost cowardly, if the issue was indeed about something else. And if the interest was indeed in saving a marriage. And if you didn’t cheat, abuse, etc etc – it’s hard to swallow all the minutiae as being the real reason. Its the delivery I guess that bothers me. I know we are all faulted and with blinders in our respective deliveries – and that is very much the purpose of your blog, and important as such, and thank you – But don’t you think here is where sometimes we can be our own psychologist? Speaking directly? Rather than skirting?
We may help one another speak directly, help one another see the forest for the woods, but I think that male or female reading this with feeling should know that it is your responsibility to represent yourself. As directly as possible. And you may speak directly while still caging with concern and empathy.
I’m certainly far from perfect. But the least I can do is to be transparent about how that is so.
You’ve voiced my biggest fear from this article. As a single guy, I worry that I may end up marrying someone for whom everything matters and I’ll never be able to keep track. Just because I don’t do things exactly the way or on the exact time scale you want them done doesn’t mean that I’m doing them wrong. I can see having preferences in this regard, but it certainly feels controlling for a wife to base her entire sense of security on whether her husband does everything her way.
I think what many people miss is that for some of us men it may be just as important to be able to do things our way as it is for wives to have these things done for them.
On the other hand, if it is just a few things that really matter and not EVERYTHING, I for one would be glad to do them as long as I know what they are. Unfortunately, I also know the experience of trying and bring constantly told that it’s not good enough.
It is NOT the minutia. It is being autonomous, even in an interdependent relationship. It is not relying on your partner to clean up after you like a child. It is being responsible for the things you need to be responsible for. If you were not in a relationship and just roommates, would you expect another person to clean up after you, do your dishes, laundry, sweep your floor, feed your cat? No. Unless you were mentally or physically handicapped. And even then, you would either have an agreement or pay the other person. So unless you are mentally or physically handicapped then you should not expect one to do that for you in a relationship. It is deeply codependent and cause for many hidden issues in relationships.
There is no autonomy in a team environment. The gist of the article is that a seemingly insignificant action by his perspective meant far more by hers. I contend that if she had looked beyond her own feelings she would have realized that a small action on her part would have payed off in huge dividends. We men LOVE to be the hero and a small gesture of gratitude is all it takes for us to go the extra mile.
You’re missing the point. My reply wasn’t about co-dependence, it was about being forthright. If you have a problem in a relationship I suppose it is best to be straightforward about it. Not to make it an issue about a glass.
It may help to understand the larger canvas. He was expecting her to clean up after him. So as a general rule, clean up after yourself. I like to think that’s easier to keep track of than 5,000 tiny “rules” like – put your glass in the dishwasher, clean up if you can’t hit the toilet, clean the floor if you track in dirt and so forth.
You’ve rewritten a chapter from a John Gray book from 20 years ago. You obviously discovered some good information but writing doesn’t seem to be your strong suit.
Nice try. I hate admitting this publicly, but I’ve never read that book. You can ask my ex-wife. It’s one of the many things that disappointed her about me.
Thanks for the constructive criticism!
Intersting you would put the glass in the dishwasher if guests were coming over!
Yup. Nailed it.
Put your fucking glass in the god damned dishwasher because she is your PARTNER not YOUR MAID. God. Fucking. Damn It. WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU THINK CLEAN GLASSES COME FROM YOU ASSHOLE? IT is the same GOD DAMNED PLACE as clean underwear and a clean toilet and clean floors – SHE FUCKING DID IT you Peter Pan Man child. Get OFF your ASS and call your ex-wife and arrange to go over there to do her dishes right fucking now.
I’ll mail you a $1,000 if you can prove you read this entire post. I’ll wait.
You clearly didn’t read it!
Oh wait, how about she shows some gratitude for the effort he makes to provide for her. If she is that unhappy go get a job and then start bitching about the division of labor at home. If a woman agrees to stay home she has made a contract with the breadwinner. She keeps the home, he provides it. If she is working then yes, by all means call him out.
Weary one: Each of your posts reveal a fundamental belief that going to a corporate job is more valuable than maintaining a household and raising children and, therefore, you are more deserving of appreciation. You are wrong on both counts.
The author never said his wife wasn’t employed outside of the home. Most women are these days.
I wonder how a guy would like it if he had to get up and get everyone ready and out the door/to school or daycare by 7am, be at work by 7:45 (women need to be early to work otherwise they are looked down on), then work a 10 hour day and make sure you are the last to leave (again, if women leave before others it’s always perceived that home life comes before work), rush to daycare/after school program to pick up the kids then rush home and immediately start dinner while checking in with each kid on their homework, activities etc. Now serve dinner and work to get everyone at the table engaged in conversing about their day. Then clean up after dinner. Go do a load or two of laundry, pay bills online, reprimand one kid, break up a scuffle or argument between two others, get kids ready for bed and tucked in…….where is the spouse / other parent during all this? Relaxing on the sofa acting like he’s had such a tough day. I’m sure his day must be so much more challenging than hers. Isn’t that why he earns at least 12%more than she’d earn if she were employed in that same position?
Work at home wives are not slaves. While most work at home wives are happy to do the laundry, dishes, errands, mopping, scrubbing, cooking and so on, it is common courtesy and a sign of respect to clean up after yourself. It’s like if she just cleaned the floors and he tracks in mud. If he’s like, “Well, I earn the money, so wipe up my mess” it’s kinda jerky. If you make a mess, it’s just basic respect to clean it up. Plus, it’s a good example to your kids.
Excellent words brother! I hope I can save my marriage now, before things get worse. Thank you! REALLY!!!
She should take care of glass and quit complaining
Ann, I only agree if she is not working outside the home.
Even if she isn’t working outside the home, she has been working throughout the day while you have been at work (and contrary to your earlier post, most paid employment contains more “hidden leisure time” than a housewife gets. So you have both slaved away from 7am to 6pm or whatever it is in your case. When you get home from your paid job you take responsibility for 50% of the housework now you are both in the house. This is 50/50. Both of you working 7am to 6pm, her at home, you at work, then you getting home and essentially feeling entitled to an evening of leisure while she is expected to keep slaving away is not 50/50. If you have a non 50/50 arrangement and it works for you that’s fair enough but it’s not what most women would accept. And you are not paying for stuff for her; she is earning her fair share of the money by doing the home based work that lets you achieve what you do at work in the first place.
And even if she does make it out for coffee or lunch, chances are she’s working while she’s having it. I went out for lunch with my housewife friend on Monday. She had a toddler and a baby with her who needed fed, changed, rocked, soothed and wiped, during the hour we spent together and she also had to make sure the baby didn’t climb out of her high chair and injure herself which she kept trying to do and that her toddler didn’t injure anyone else with the toys she had brought with her to keep her occupied. I’m guessing when you have your lunch at work you don’t have these demands on your time.
A 9 to 5 job is working for 7 hours a day if you have a lunch break. Housework and childcare can be up to 24 hours a day although I’m sure the average is around 16 hours a day. This idea that when you make an arrangement for one partner to do wage work, the other party is supposed to do almost everything else is one of the reasons women are leaving their marriages in droves. When you get home from work it should be 50/50 if she has been working all day like you have and if you both believe in equality, which I know in your case that you don’t.
“When you choose to love someone, it becomes your pleasure to do things that enhance their lives and bring you closer together, rather than a chore”.
I wish this was reflected in the title for all the cynical people out there who never really read beyond the actually title.
So…wives who work outside the home should be respected. Those who work as home makers should not be?
Matt – Mr MBTTTR – You are a GENIUS. This is exactly the story of me and my ex!
Thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time
That link nailed it so hard. In fact, it should replace the story here.
I’ve read that piece and I’m not sure she’s really been angry about hamburger meat. I think she was more angry at the disrespectful scoff and “Is that all?” I’m assuming she’s cooking dinner for him with this hamburger meat? And it’s important to her that she’s providing a healthy meal. If she disrespectfully scoffed at one of his requests and said, “That’s really stupid” would he get upset? Of course.
Berating your partner, belittling them, yelling at them or disrespecting them isn’t the way to go, but just as Matt’s article isn’t about the glass, this other article isn’t about the hamburger meat.
I enjoyed this article so much. My ex husband NEVER understood that it wasn’t about the wet towels on the bathroom floor, or the open glasses of whatever he was drinking being put in the fridge…it was simply about respecting the fact that I’m the one who had to clean them up after working 2 jobs. Thank you for hopefully putting it into perspective for other guys who need a little advice. You’re awesome!
If you are working 2 jobs the yes, you are completely justified in taking him to task.
Guess I have glasses all over the place. It is almost as bad as leaving the toilet seat up. and it is all your family’s fault. We are all that way (I mean my family). No one taught us how to love cause no one taught them. I have tried and tried, still making it after 31 pretty good years. none of us are perfect, eve if we came from non-loving houses (homes).
Finally, I am always the last one to go to bed and there are almost always dishes in the sink., I cant stand dishes in the sink, let alone leave a glass on the counter! My mon did not like dishes in the sink. She taught me something.
So I hope to make our world a better place. I’ll try to keep those glasses off the sink. Just don’t forget that I love you the best I can, and hope to spend the rest of my life with you, for better or worse.
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ONLY MEN TRANSPLANT ORGANS OR BUILD SKYSCRAPERS. No women do things that are intellectual. Everything that humanity has ever did or invented cisgendered men inherit through their ballsack. Your point is salient, but there was no need to hyper-gender this.
Men and women’s emotional intelligence isn’t different, but we socialize (cis) men to feel that they deserve to be taken care of. We can break down the idea that cis, heterosexual men should be coddled by their wives and that cis men need to be aware of and respect their partners’ needs and boundaries without implicitly denying the achievements of women in science fields, dude.
You do realize you’re the one who put the word “Only” into that? And you’re the one who brought the line “No women do things that are intellectual.” and so on. Maybe it’s not obvious to you, but its obvious to anyone reading your comment that you have an axe to grind and will force any situation to fit into the your narrative in your head. The author was making a positive point, than men are capable of doing things and in no way was his comment negatively implying that woman could not. Your comment, on the other hand, is just dripping in negativity and assumption. I hope your open enough with yourself to actually take a step back and look at the thought processes that brought you to writing this comment. And to realize you are by and large creating your own problem to rail against.
Thank you for that. Many frustrating things have been said about this post. Among the most absurd to me is the inference that I somehow believe only men are capable of great accomplishments and that women are not.
I appreciate your defense of truth.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and be part of the conversation.
Matt I will agree with your article if you can acknowledge that you are respected in other ways in this relationship. The difference between single breadwinner homes today and those of the 1950s is that there should be no expectations placed on either partner in the context of traditional gender roles. But I have to ask, did you ever feel undervalued or under appreciated in the relationship? Were your feelings ever focused on? See this is the other side of the double-edged sword…the recognition that men have feelings too. One could very easily tell her to cry a river about putting a glass in the dishwasher after you had just put in a 60 hour week at a job you hate so that she could have a dishwasher. This is not an example of misogyny but rather an opportunity to recognize that your feelings were just as valid as hers.
You do realize that Matt does not need, and likely doesn’t care at all about you agreeing with this article, right? And the fact that you actually state here that “there should be no expectations placed on either partner in the context of traditional gender roles,” after EVERYTHING else you’ve said here to the contrary is laughable.
While your feelings are indeed just as valid, it really seems to me that what you’re describing is not as much about feelings as it is about who has the right to complain. You’re speaking from a place of “who does what” or “who has the heavier workload” and extrapolating to “who has more of a right to complain.” I’m basing this on a reply you made further up the page, in which you mentioned to someone earlier that, because they were working two jobs, they were justified in taking their spouse to task for the dish by the sink.
Let me know if I’m getting something wrong, here. Your stance is that if one party comes home after a long day of work and doesn’t want to put their glass in the sink, and the other party performs fewer hours of paid work, then the latter party has no right to complain. The latter party does less work anyway, and therefore they can put the dish in the dishwasher and shut up about it. Is that accurate?
If so… then, to you, it is about who has the right to complain. And you’re a person who is experiencing this article in a different way than I do–which is only natural, since we’re two different human beings–because I experience this article as follows:
Forget the glass. Throw away the glass. Pretend it doesn’t exist. Pretend, for a moment, that the article is about putting a new roll of toilet paper in the holder when you’ve finished the roll. It takes four seconds to go across the hall to the pantry and get a fresh roll of paper. Not much at all.
And–remember we’re pretending, here–this is a “whatever” thing for you. It doesn’t matter that much to you… but it DOES matter to ME. Pretend that we are married, and it matters a lot to me.
When one person asks something of another person, the person who has less preference should–SHOULD–be the person to concede. We do this every day when someone asks “which would you rather” and our reply is “oh, I don’t care, you pick.” I don’t care, therefore YOU should pick; you must care more than I do because I don’t care at all. YOU care more; therefore, I should let you decide. Insisting that I get to pick because I work longer hours even though I don’t really care and you do really care makes me an a**hole.
Makes, in this situation, YOU an a**hole. I know you don’t care about the toilet paper. But as your hypothetical wife, I wish you’d respect and love me enough to replace it so that I don’t feel disregarded.
It’s not about the glass. The glass is a metaphor. Here’s the real message of this article: “This thing that matters to the person you love most. This thing doesn’t cost you much, if anything. It doesn’t matter to you, but give the thing to the person you love; it matters to them. You don’t need to understand why it matters to them–only that it does matter.”
Does that make sense? If I’ve got your stance wrong, let me know and I’ll try to tailor my responses accordingly. I can’t help but think that what we have here is a failure to communicate.
You said, and illustrated it, very well.
Thank you for that.
I see a lot of people making this a control issue and an “I’m right, you’re wrong” thing which is exactly what Matt said created the divide between he and his wife. It’s not that one person wins and another loses. It’s her asking him to please clean up after himself because when he expects her to do it, she feels disrespected.
If your wife worked outside of the home and you took care of everything around the house – kids, cleaning, cooking, errands and so forth and she came in, tracked mud through the whole house and told you, “I earn the money, get down on your hands and knees and clean it up!” would you feel disrespected? Of course you would. Would it be reasonable to ask, “Hey, hon. I will keep the floors clean but if you track in mud, could you please wipe it up?” Of course.
I don’t know, but I imagine his wife often asked, “How was your day?” and often listened to his concerns about life. He said that he wanted the marriage to continue so I assume he was, for the most part, happy.
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It’s never about the dish by the sink, until it’s about the dish by the sink. Maybe it’s about a candy wrapper always left out on the counter, or about the bathroom garbage never being taken out until it’s overfilled, or about shoes being left out of the closet. It sounds really, really easy to do something as simple as put the dishes in the sink, but as the author says, it’s never just about the dishes. And I’m guessing that, for many husbands, it’s not so much about the dish, either; it’s about never feeling like we’re going to do EVERYTHING she wants us to do, all the time, without fail. The dishes, then, are simply the most obvious thing we’re doing “wrong,” and if it weren’t for them, it would be something else. If women can accuse men of these little things not showing that we care, then we could throw it back and say (as the author does) that letting a marriage dissolve over a tiny little issue is a spiteful, intentional failure to care on their part. And you know what? Neither of those would be true, because both are the result of people acting in their flawed, mistaken ways, and not appreciating each other for what they bring to the marriage.
Every morning I wake up with our kids so that she can sleep a little longer – on the weekends, this might get her an extra couple hours of sleep, assuming the kids are quiet enough. During the week, this time involves getting them ready for the day before I have to leave for work, and on the weekend, it involves playing with the kids, giving them breakfast and, if I’m feeling up to it, starting a little (quiet) cleaning, and/or making a meal plan and grocery list for the shopping I’ll be doing while she’s napping with the kids Saturday afternoon.
When I get home from work, I make dinner so she can relax and Facebook or play with the kids. We eat, I do the dishes (about half the time, assuming she doesn’t do them first). After dinner, I play with the kids so she can take care of bills or online shopping, or whatever it is she needs to do, but mostly give her some time so she “can think” (stressful job). I bathe the kids, we team up to get their pajamas on, and then I read them a story. I come downstairs, make lunches for her and the kids, make her coffee for the morning, and take care of any work leftover from my day before taking some time to relax (if there is time before I go to bed).
Every few weeks I forget to make her coffee, or don’t get the kids dressed in the morning on the weekend before she gets up, or do some little thing that she gets irritated about that I used to do a lot more often before I got used to doing the “responsible thing.” And she takes this opportunity to tell me how unappreciated she is, how this shows her I don’t care about her, how if I would just LISTEN to her and do the little things that show her I care about her, our marriage would be better.
The thing is, I never get the feeling that she appreciates when I DO make her coffee, or get up with the kids, or take care of the dishes at night. Everything the author here says sounds wonderful, but if most wives are like mine, they only notice when things are WRONG, not when things are RIGHT. My wife doesn’t notice all the little things I do to make her life easier, only the things I do that annoy her; I only ever get a token thanks for things like dinner or mowing the lawn. She never does anything to show her appreciation beyond that very easy “thank you.”
What do I want? I want her to realize that all the times that I make coffee FOR HER AND HER ALONE should balance out the uncommon occasion where I forget. I want her to recognize that that consistency is a challenge for me, and that I’m not using my ADD as an excuse, but that it does add a degree of difficulty to what she’s asking. I want her to see that many of those little things that I do for her don’t benefit me in any way, and that those actually are that signs of respect and love that she’s claiming I don’t give her.
So yes, I realize as a husband that doing the little things she asks for is a sign that I respect and care for her, but I wish that she would realize that the inverse isn’t true; that occasionally failing to do those things is NOT sign that I don’t care. In other words, just because you feel a certain way, doesn’t make you RIGHT about that feeling. Nobody’s entitled to a sacredness of emotion – if your feelings are flawed, then it’s up to you to be able to step back and really analyze whether or not your perspective of the situation (man or woman) is really accurate. If you can’t balance all the good he (or she) does for you with all of the good you do for her him (or her), then you’re putting an unfair burden on the marriage.
I’m right there with you
This is excellent. I’m a wife similar to yours ……thanks for making me get it. I think my husband feels this but can’t articulate it. It’s really opened my eyes.
Wow. That’s awesome. Kudos to you.
I think you’re twisting it around too much. How would you feel if your wife came home from work and left her filthy boots on the floor you just cleaned, ate dinner without a word of thanks, left her crusty plate in the sink, took off her clothes and left them next to the hamper, and fell asleep on the couch during the six o’clock news, EVEFY SINGLE DAY?
This article hits the nail right on the head for me. So much so, I actually shared it with my fiancé, begging him to read it. What you describe is exactly what is destroying my relationship. I have 2 young children with this man and I’m trying desperately to keep things together for their sake. I feel like I have a third child, not a life partner. I handle everything, from the kids, finances, most recently selling/buying a home, appointments, errands, vehicle maintenance (yes, that’s right…I monitor when our vehicles are due for service), etc. And what are some examples of my expectations for him…”Mike, please start your car on these horribly cold mornings to give it time to warm up”. His response, “Well, we need to trade parking spaces then or I need a remote starter”. Seriously?!! Needless to say, coming across this article certainly made my evening. It validates all of my feelings and frustrations! But the harsh reality is, my man is never going to change. He refuses to even read this…fearful of the truth obviously.
Run away screaming.
Great read, very important and very relevant, for what I assume pertains to the vast majority of relationships today. More importantly, it reminds me of what a woman who recently broke the worlds record for the longest marriage response to the question, “What the secret was” to which she responded, “Don’t be afraid to love the most”. It seems clear to me that, and in my experience, both parties always have a part. For example, the many woman who, presumably, decided to let go of their position during similar disputes, can too, be said to have understood that there is more at stake and that this point of intersect, i.e., the glass, the toilet seat, etc., is worth letting go of and therefore “saving that relationship”. My point is that there is a lesson for both men and women in this passage, it is that putting others first creates better relationships altogether. Whether its work, friendships or lovers, the old saying that “kindness is the highest form of wisdom” seems also true in this passage. And, what is most unfortunate is the degree of which people are interested in control is so high, they rarely experience the effects of loving most and loving often. Again, I certainly agree with the idea whole heatedly, but I’m confident this message goes well beyond the position of a man in a relationship with a woman. Love heals all!
Equal distribution of household labor. End of story.
Who gets to determine what “equal” is?
The parties involved in said labor.
What if they don’t agree with what equal is?
If a person and their partner do not agree what equal distribution of labor is then their partnership is severely comprimised, as this gentleman found out the hard way.
Therefore, your initial comment was pointless.
A) Simply saying, “Equal distribution of household labor,” is meaningless if there is no agreement to begin with.
B) No two people agree on what “equal” is.
C) Regarding point B, “equal” could refer to the quantity of labor, the quality of labor, the relational aspect of labor, or any combination thereof. For example, one partner might vacuum the living room floor and the other one change the timing belt on the car. They each did one thing so the tasks are equal, right? No. – Let’s say one partner is an excellent tailor and the other partner couldn’t even thread a needle without sticking her finger with it. Mending a pair of jeans would mean something entirely different for them. It wouldn’t be fair for the qualified tailor to berate his wife for not getting the mending done adequately. (I come from a long line of master seamstresses and was taught well.) How do you count that task between them? You don’t. You can’t. There’s no comparison to be made there.
D) Given the last example in point C, labor is dependent on ability. What if one partner is a quadriplegic? How to do you divide the work equally there? The fact is in this case that one person does just about all the work, plus some of the work of just living for the other person. I remember an Indian in Dubai I knew who had gone blind. His wife fed him by hand every meal and he started a writing ministry that she helped him with. But there were many things he was no longer capable of doing for himself. Nevertheless, she was there for him.
When it comes down to it, my wife and I agree on one thing regarding our division of labor: It’s not 50/50. It’s not 60/40. It’s not 30/70. It’s 100/100: We each give 100% of what we have to give, whatever that happens to be. My wife has fibromyalgia. That means that she has a limited amount of energy to expend throughout the day. I don’t expect her to give more than that. I have my own issues. For example, I don’t talk well on the telephone. So if a phone call needs to be made, she usually does it. We don’t keep track so that we can say that one person has done more than the other. If not everything gets done for the day, oh well. It will be waiting for us in the morning. Sometimes I get to the dishes before she does. Usually she gets to them before I do. Sometimes the kids do the dishes. Sometimes they are still in the sink the next day and we get to them then. We don’t compete against each other to see who can be in charge, or who has the moral upper hand and can berate the other. We compete alongside each other to make life work. Screw trying to figure out what “equal” is.
Let me see if i understand your logic: So if you show this article to your spouse before they can show it to you, It will mean that you are right, they are wrong, and you can claim moral superiority…
…unless you are willing to preemptively admit when you hand it to them that you may be at fault here as well.
Sorry, I meant for that response to go elsewhere. I think the reply function may be breaking down.
I’m a woman, and I say eff doing the dishes. Once a day, tops, that’s my motto. Then again, I live alone with a cat and I’m 40, so…there’s that.
This is making me SO glad I never got married.
Because, seriously, EFF doing the dishes, man. I LOVE living alone!
Completely correct. Cried my eyes out reading it, because I’m living it as I type and feeling hopeless. Thank you for this, and well done. You are a rare breed of man we all wish were far more abundant, and I’m sure are appreciated as such. High five to a real, mature, grown ass man.
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Brilliant. The idiom ‘you hit the nail on the head’ was created for this post.
Wow, women are a waste of fucking time. Only get married if she’s richer so you can collect off of her post-divorce.
Celibacy, homosexuality, or solitude are all choices available to you, Toby.
In the real world where I live, MOST people pair up, and most of them get married.
It’s a worthwhile exercise to figure out how to execute marriage at a high level, like you do with all of the skills and activities you’re good at now.
Maybe you’re a great golfer. Maybe you’re awesome at woodworking. Maybe you’re a mathematician or landscape architect or financial advisor or auto technician or medical professional.
And I believe it’s possible to be skilled and knowledgeable about our relationships.
Pursue mastery in your relationships like you do your work and hobbies. Your life will be awesome then.
I promise.
Good luck, sir.
Thank you Matt — once again your comment hits the nail on the head. If we aim for excellence in our jobs and hobbies, why shouldn’t this (indeed, why doesn’t this) hold true for how we approach and live within our marriages?
This was a recurring theme of my unhappiness with my husband. He never got it. And unfortunately this attitude was the male role model for the first 16 and 18 years of life of our two sons. Hard to rectify. Very. 🙁
i appreciate your perspective. I disagree with the notion that a glass is a deal breaker (I understand the metaphor). So, having been divorced before, and for reasons not dissimilar to those you’ve described my conclusion is this….it’s not about a glass it’s about a bucket. When your bucket is full the glass doesn’t matter-to anyone.
When/if each partner is making a constant, continuous effort to think the best of each other and act accordingly a balance can be achieved that dissolves the need to go negative. For example, does my husband annoy me? Yes sometimes, and I’m sure I do him as well, but when those feelings creep in I immediately make myself recount things I am grateful for and live about him. It completely derails any negative thought train.
Additionally, practicality matters. While I do run my own real estate business and am the primary responsible adult for our teenage children I have no expectation that my husbands glass will go beyond the sink edge and here’s why…time and practicality. My husbands time is better spent on his strengths and focused on his job. I, simply, am home more and have more time to do it. My husband works very hard, makes a great living, and appreciates me in other ways every day. Finally, and perhaps most importantly is I would rather have a full life than a clean fucking house. Let’s all leave the dishes for later and go for a walk, or have sex or arm wrestle…we can clean up together, later.
I loved this thank you for sharing! is definitely much more than the dishes if people understand this and apply it in every type of relationship, they will probably last longer.
Or you just put the damn glass in the sink. Compromise ? … I pull the shower curtain closed every time my boyfriend takes a shower. He doesn’t think it’s important but I do. Since its MY “hangup” I do it for MY pleasure and sanity. Why should he do something about something that doesn’t bother him. He constantly folds the blanket in the living room even though I know in 4 hours I’m gonna be right back under it. Neither of us bitch. We do what makes us happy and argue about things that actually matter. But we’ve both been divorced and learned what does REALLY matter, trust, commitment and respect for ones character not petty, meaningless habits.
Dude, your wife left you for reasons other than what you state. Start looking deeper. The dishes is a scapegoat. She’s got issues that neither of you see.
As a wife who is dealing with some of those issues, I love this post. It helps me to know that I’m right that he just simply doesn’t understand it’s not just about the chores I have to ask him to do fifteen times. I know he doesn’t get that it hurts, even if I tell him a hundred times. But this post has helped immensely. Thank you so much!
This makes me tired. Don’t let this sit with you forever. There are some people who are not happy with anything, and the malcontents of the world make it miserable for the others just trying to exist. You could be doing 1,000 thing right, and the five that you don’t do to their standards are talked about over and over. Let her move on and worry about someone else’a minutia.
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I loved the “dishes” post. I kept the link for my teenage boys. I am a “stay married” person that is divorced. The pain is constant. You helped me, a woman who has a hard time identifying what she’s really upset about, put words and meaning to a struggle that is real. I was reading this and thought, “I’m a lunatic”. But this is IT! The road block of communication and respect in a marriage. And for goodness sake, I know it is not about the dishes.
This is just SO right… I’m left speechless. Thank you that I could read this words.
the grammar of this comment shows just about how much the post has moved me 😉
I liked it!!
So you clearly learned the wrong lesson. The correct answer is, “adults put things away when they are done with them. They also don’t live in a constant state of disorder and chaos.”
The glass wasn’t the issue; it’s likely you’re a mess in a lot of other ways. That’s why she left you.
Thanks for the diagnosis, doc! Amazing insight! I’m healed! It’s a miracle!
This. Is. Amazing.
After reading this twice, I said to myself, “Yay! She left!” She didn’t leave because of the glass. She just needed something – however ridiculous – to justify leaving you. She probably was behind the curtain on her knees paying lip service to the great and terrible Oz!
Her actions reminded me of things a narcissist would do. If push came to shove, she would have left you because you draw too much breath. Anything to shift the blame on you and justify her next move: divorce. BTW, do you pay alimony? Child support?
Narcisissts also target pushovers. The way this article reads, you’re a delicious target served on a silver patter with all the trimmings and a flagon of wine. Good men don’t have to give their nuts away to be good men. Grow up.
Yes, she did need something. She needed him to take the initiative to show her that he does, in fact, care about how she feels. The glass is symbolic. I always called it the sand on the fire effect. Although you might only be throwing a small amount of sand on the fire everytime you disregard your partner, eventually it will be smothered.
I don’t think you read the article. He doesn’t even say she blames the divorce on him, he blames himself. I bet she just felt like he didn’t love her enough to simply put a glass in the sink (that is also symbolic).
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Overall I think this was a great article, but there are a couple of things I took issue with. First, you started out by saying, “Feeling respected by one’s wife is essential to living a purposeful and meaningful life. Maybe I thought my wife should respect me simply because I exchanged vows with her. It wouldn’t be the first time I acted entitled.” Errr. Wrong. That is just absurd. Um, YES, you SHOULD expect your wife to respect you because you exchanged vows!!! There is nothing entitled about that! That’s just Marriage 101. A husband should not have to earn his wife’s respect just as a woman should not have to earn her husband’s love. Why get married, otherwise, to a woman who doesn’t respect you, or for a woman to marry a man who doesn’t love her. C’mon.
Ok, my second issue was this: this is so one-sided and doesn’t get into how women are disrespectful to their husbands, and how THAT causes problems in a marriage. I’m seeing women sharing this all over Facebook, like, “YES!!! It’s not about the glass, it’s about my feelings, it’s about what is important to me, etc. etc.” It makes us feel justified. Meanwhile, men are still being disrespected. And now they’re being shown this article, which, let’s face it, most men are going to roll their eyes at. The insights you have about what the glass means to women is right, but it’s not just the husband’s job to get this right. Women also need to make changes in all the petty things we expect our husbands to do, the condescending tone in which we talk to them, etc. etc.
I would have liked to have heard how you felt when your wife said to you, “Hey Matt! Why would you leave a glass by the sink instead of putting it in the dishwasher?” instead of, “Hey honey, would you please put your glass in the dishwasher and not leave it on the counter?” Or how you felt when you asked her to just tell you what she wanted you to do, and that you’d gladly do it, but that wasn’t good enough for her. She wanted to you figure it out on your own. Some of this article read like satire to me, like when you wrote, “I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time.” ARE YOU SERIOUS? This is what I thought drives men bonkers! We expect you to know what we’re thinking and get mad at you when you didn’t do the right thing, as if you’re supposed to magically know what the right or wrong thing to do is. Without us telling you.
I’ve been married for nearly 10 years and I’ve only recently realized how important being respected is to a man. It is the air they breathe. While I need (truly NEED) to feel loved by my husband, he truly NEEDS to feel respected by me. What I think has happened at times between my husband and I is that he feels disrespected by me and therefore doesn’t treat me in a loving way. And when he doesn’t treat me in a loving way (by putting away the glass, etc.), I continue to ask disrespectfully towards him. And on and on it goes. At some point the cycle needs to break, but it won’t unless both people understand and realize what it is exactly that the other person needs.
And I have a long ways to work on respecting my husband, but I feel like my eyes have finally opened to some of the ways that I treat him like a child or simply not telling him what I’m thinking and what I want instead of feeling like he should know.
I’ve never read your blog before so maybe you’ve addressed this in a different post, but I think it would be really helpful to all of us women if you wrote from your perspective on the lack of respect you were given by your wife and how THAT affected your marriage. We don’t read stuff about that enough, and we need to!!!
I think I missed some of this article, like you apparently did. He did not say he felt disrespected. How do you know she disrespected him?
“Maybe I thought my wife should respect me simply because I exchanged vows with her. It wouldn’t be the first time I acted entitled.” Errr. Wrong. That is just absurd. Um, YES, you SHOULD expect your wife to respect you because you exchanged vows!!! There is nothing entitled about that! That’s just Marriage 101.”
you are missing a key point in your analysis, and you even quoted it. Of course she should respect him because he exchanged vows..his premise is that it should not be the ONLY reason (enough) for her to respect him. There is much more to a marriage than the wedding…that is also “marriage 101”.
He also says she tried to tell him and he didn’t understand. It didn’t make sense to him. It simply wasn’t important to him.
The point is that making something important can be simply because someone you love finds it important, it doesn’t matter if you agree that said thing is important. I don’t understand why so many people miss this.
Once a woman has made up her mind -like divorce in this case- she will cement her case with all your oddities-big or small.its like anna karenina who is coming to conclusion of leaving her aged husband & going out with rhonsky.she reinforces her case with snowballing small small oddities of her husband which she doesnt like and which she had not noticed earlier.
This was amazing! A really great read! Please check out my last blog 🙂 http://liveitfreely.wordpress.com
Sounds like he was stuck with some crazy controlling psychopath. Getting divorced was the best thing that could have happened to him. It only goes downhill from the glass.
That is in no way being a controlling psychopath. It’s a matter of respect. It’s like saying ‘hey, I don’t care that you just spent hours working hard to clean the house. As a matter of fact, here’s some more work for you.’ Or, ‘I work harder than you and you should be happy that all you have to do is clean up around the house.’
What about you though? Shouldn’t the wife take the time to realize that the husband genuinely doesn’t see it that way and isn’t trying to hurt her? Shouldn’t she take the time to understand that your action of not putting a dish in the dishwasher isn’t about not loving her, but rather that it’s just a damn dish? …I’m just saying, it could go both ways. Relationships require compromise and understanding on both ends, not just one.
You missed the whole point of his story…re read.
The blogger is being sympathetic towards the woman on this one. And I get it. But Val is right, why can’t the woman be receptive to the man that, hey, it’s just a damn dish and he’s not psychic about the horrible emotional impacts on her? Why can’t she spell it out very clearly, that when he leaves a dish in the sink, it hurts her. Not because she’s petty, but because it feels like he is disrespecting her. This also applies to being late to pick her up, staying true to your commitments, etc.
I think you’re taking this too literally. This probably wasn’t just about this dish, but other things he was doing that required her to feel more like his mother than his partner. And yes, it does go both ways for people. There are quite a few females out there who don’t have their sh*t together and I’m sure their partners feel like they are parenting, too. This guy sounds like he’s admitting that the stuff he did was part of the downfall of his marriage, and is making amends by putting it out there for other people to take note of. It’s really simple to get complacent and think “I’ve managed to make them legally mine, I’ve done all I need to do.”
Grace: your last sentence is something I’ve thought over and over for years. Men seem to work so hard to get us to love them, then once that’s complete, they just stop, leaving us to wonder,what the he** happened?
Yes but those articles don’t get read
You missed the point entirely.
Men rarely bother to understand their wives. While wives constantly have to consider everything they say in order not to insult their spouse unknowingly. I fell like my entire life is devoted to not wounding my husband’s damned male pride. I don’t think it’s too inch to ask that he consider the things that hurt me or make me feel unappreciated. Women are expected to walk around making the whole world feel cared for and nurtured. For God’s sake and your wife’s be considerate and learn to listen to the words your wife is telling you. May be you won’t be so surprised the next time you’re asked for a divorce!
Your husband may be a narcassistic person. Sounds like ‘male pride’ is actually eggshells because of narcassistic anger. look it up.
Oh, ffs…
trustinhenderson – she did spell it out very clearly. The author makes it absolutely clear that he was well aware that she repeatedly told him it hurt that he was leaving his glass in the sink. He didn’t need to be psychic. He just needed to accept and respect her feelings. And the reason why it hurt her is irrelevant, which is one of the main points of the article.
Yep I agree..she sounds like a ridiculous person not willing to compromise one bit!
trust – please reread. Matt says that he wife explained it to him over and over and over and over and he didn’t get why it was a big deal so he didn’t care. Had he recognized that it hurt her, he wouldn’t have done it.
Val – yes, compromise is key. And if you’re doing something and you don’t “get” why it hurts your partner, but she says, “Hey, that hurts me when you do that” perhaps the right answer is “tell me more” not “you’re crazy” One answer will save your marriage, the other will eventually destroy it.
And believe me, women feel that some of the requests of their husbands are pretty stupid too, but you do for your partner because you love them.
You are all missing THE point. These folks have too much time on their hands.
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Can I just say, the words I copied from your text (pasted below) have totally hit the nail on the head for me. They’re the clearest, shortest way of expressing how I’ve always felt about telling my ex boyfriends what to do, and always wishing I didn’t have to. THANK YOU!
“But I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of.
I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.”
If I had to map out and consider every possible situation where I did things that displeased the woman, and then make an action plan around those topics to avoid displeasing her, I’d have an effing anxiety attack every single day. Women need to be accountable and communicate their wants/desires/expectations.
Women usually have been telling you and telling you. The problem is your hearing
Yep, agree with D. Allen. Women are generally good at the communicating bit. Men are generally bad at the listening bit. My clearest example. The men who have responded to me ending the relationship by saying “but I had no idea you were unhappy!”. When I had sat them down and said in plain terms “I am very unhappy in this relationship” repeatedly in the months leading up to the break up (and explained exactly why). And when you ask them what they think you meant by this and they just look stunned and say “but I had no idea you were unhappy!”. I honestly don’t think I am going to find a book that will tell me how to get a man to take what I say seriously until he’s been dumped and it’s too late. I don’t think I will ever understand this.
I couldn’t agree with you more! I wish these exact words had formed in my head 3 years ago when my then boyfriend (now husband) was looking at me like I had three heads when he said, “are we really going to argue about nesting a stack of bowls?” I sometimes feel insane for being so frustrated by those little things, and bewildered when he won’t just do the little things. And damnit if he doesn’t always say “just ask, and I’ll do it”…
Matt, she divorced you because a) she was selfish and b) she either ignorantly or willfully disrespected your role as head of the home. She used the action of divorce as a power play.
I think you’ve got it backward. She is supposed to respect YOUR feelings and wishes about whether a cup sits at the sink or not, regardless of how she feels about it — because you are supposed to be head of the home. Not the woman.
It’s important to note that as long as both of you are alive, she can make the choice to reconcile to you and remain faithful to her wedding vows. As long as she chooses to remain divorced (or remarry to someone else), she is living in an open state of rebellion, and God will judge her if she refuses to repent.
(If one wants to assert that God doesn’t exist or has no bearing on what this selfish woman may do, then they admit whatever position they take on this matter is their opinion. And ONLY their opinion.)
You missed the whole point of his story…re read.
I love you you posted that above too. Yes they need to re-read.
What point did I miss?
holy cow Chris….really….
Yes, women should bend to the will of men, all hail males!!
Screw that,Marriage is a partnership, not a dictatorship,we are equals,communications is what it is all about, lets get real here!!!
My sarcasm didn’t travel well over the internet.
Actually this really put out the vibe of just the opposite. That men should bend to the will of women and that she shouldn’t acknowledge that the inverse of the dish situation is when she blows up over a dish he’ll feel unloved and unworthy. I agree with just doing it for her sake, but the opposite should involve her just moving on with her life when he doesn’t do it. This being a problem on both sides is ludacris.
I was mainly addressing Chris’s comment. However, you do bring up an interesting point to the blog thingy. The way it was written can be seen as his ex-wife not being at any fault, but of course that’s not Matt’s point (but I wish he included it somewhere). But it’s a situation that happens all too often because of the lack of communication, openness, and understanding between the partners. As well as tedious house tasks.
I am seriously hoping your comment is satire!
It is not.
Jesus calls men to HONOR their wives. And to LOVE them as Jesus loves the church thereby laying their lives down for them. YOU dear husband are a SERVANT in your home IF you wish to abide by the mandates given you by the apostles. YOU ARE Jesus washing the disciples feet. This means that when you do not FEEL like putting a dish away, you lay down YOUR wishes and honor your wife and put the dish away… honoring your wife so that “your prayers be not hindered”. When you do not FEEL like watching the children so your wife can attend something, you lay down YOUR wants and give honor to your wife. When you feel like using your vacation to fulfill your desire for entertainment, you consider your wife BETTER than yourself, deferring to the activities that would bring joy and honor to her. The roles given to husbands and wives are not a ‘get out of jail free card’ for husband’s to fulfill the lusts of their flesh accommodating their own willful desires at the expense of their wives wishes. When husbands truly LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES for the care and well being of their wives, respect and honor will come pouring forth from their wives in unseen measure. But rather if you husbands continue on in selfish ambition seeking your own satisfaction you are merely cutting off your own hand. Disfiguring your own body.
The scripture says for husbands to love their wives; it does not say they are in submission to them. Contrariwise, the Bible says the wife is to submit to the husband in everything, to be in obedience to him (Eph. 5:22-24; Tit. 2:4-5). Unless there is a good reason why the wife doesn’t feel like putting a dish up, and the husband says she should put it up, the wife is obligated to respect the wishes of the husband…regardless of whether he is being “selfish” in his ambitions or not (Eph. 5:33). This is the “call” of wives who claim to be Christians (1 Pet. 3:1). Wives who do not respect and honor their husbands in this fashion are in rebellion to what God says about their role in marriage and open the door for the word of God to be blasphemed (Tit. 2:5).
Chris, if the husband was laying down his life (his wishes, his desires, his lusts) for his wife as commanded by the scriptures, this issue would never even arise in a GODLY marriage. It becomes an “if” – “then” scenario… ” if” husband disobeys God by failing to lay down his wishes to honor his wife, “then” wife disobeys God by failing to be obedient to the demands of her husband. So who should order their conduct upright before the Lord first, the husband or the wife? And if said husband was a halfway descent, functioning adult they wouldn’t be leaving stuff around expecting others to clean up after them. If someone doesn’t understand or care enough to realize that dirty dishes need to go in the dishwasher, I doubt that a dirty dish is the real issue. It’s just the culmination of a myriad of issues that say, “my time and my wishes are more valuable than your time and your wishes. I am more important.” That is not the meaning intended by the scriptures that exhort men to lay down their lives for their wives. And let’s get even more basic than the exhortations given husbands and wives by the apostles. Let’s talk about Jesus’ commandment to treat others the way you want to be treated. If you were the person largely responsible for keeping the home in order, would you want to share your home and life with someone who makes no effort or shows no consideration in contributing to running of a SUCCESSFUL household? Any UNSUCCESSFUL household an be run by lazy people who just don’t care that much. That being said I don’t condone a woman leaving her husband no matter how selfish or ungodly that husband is. I teach my children a very basic, but valuable lesson… “it’s not nice to make a mess that someone else has to clean up.” That lesson applies to everyone…. even husbands.
Chris, you’re a disgrace to the name of Christians. No sane Christian speaks this way. For the sake of those who aren’t raging sexists who use religion as their platform, leave the name of God out of your rants. Thanks.
wow Crhis… really? So a woman is only to serve her man… lol… You can go live a long happy life with your ‘obedient’ slave, my husband chose a partner, one with opinions and needs and a will of her own thank you very much… and I agree with the article, which is not about the glass at all if you actually read it…
You missed the point entirely. Marriage is about mutual respect, something that took the author of this blog some time and self reflection to learn.
Thank God above that I did not marry you. It sounds like you want something to own and worship you. Get a dog.
U were really engaged to him, Chris??
I wonder if any one even told the other how they felt…I see so many young married couples today, get a divorce and not even communicate the thing that they are upset about. people in general seem to do whatever it takes to keep from having a confrontation. No one seems to have a backbone anymore!! No communication…and then the ones that will, can’t get the other to talk about it, usually the man that want tell the feelings!! Just saying…Marriage is through thick and thin…talk it out, get on with what the Lord has for your life together!!
You know that verse in Ephesians, that women hate and men love – “Wives, submit to your husbands…?” Have you read the what comes next? “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church.” Hmmm…as Christ, who had to be tortured and killed in order for the church to even exist…love her like that? As though her well-being is more important than my comfort or my very life?
I think that means I put away the d@%# glass. The glass doesn’t matter to me at all, except part of what I said as a husband is, “If it matters to you, then it matters to me.”
Wouldn’t it be easier for wives to submit to their husbands if each of us as husbands was putting his wife’s needs as far above his own as Christ put our needs above His own?
You’re hilarious, Chris! 😀
wow.. maybe you need to actually read the whole Bible and not just the parts that support your notion of women in servitude. I never found any passage where being head of household means that the wife is a servant and the husband can be rude and disrespectful of her. God NEVER meant for the woman’s feelings to be irrelevant nor for her to be treated with disdain.
“And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.” Ephesians 4:32
Ephesians again: 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—1 Peter 3:7 ESV Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman
Ephesians 5:21 Submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.
while you’re at it re-read the article and focus your attention on the parts where the author emphasizes that the glass was just a symbol and symptom of a more general lack of respect for her feelings
Ephesians 5:28-31: “In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.”
Chris, husbands and wives are to respect and honor one another. God tells us it is to go both ways. If you tell her it really bothers you when she’s running the vacuum during the SuperBowl, she should say, “Oh, sorry” and do it later – even if it’s totally stupid and unreasonable and makes zero sense to her. And if she says, “Hey, please load your glass in the dishwasher instead of leaving it in the sink so I have to clean up after you” you should say, “Oh, sorry” and remember to put your glass in the dishwasher – even if it’s totally stupid and unreasonable and makes zero sense to you.
Please show me where in the bible it says, “Wives, be your husband’s slave and husbands treat your wives like crap.”
“I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent.” Timothy 2:11
I believe that would include wives telling me how to clean up after myself…
yes! I am using the example of the vacuum and superbowl!
Mick, why should your wife have to tell you to clean up after yourself to begin with. Do you read what you type? Good grief.
Mick, you would be wrong. If you majored in theology in school like I did, you would know that this was a reference to the structure of the church. Additionally, you would know that this was written by Paul who was very likely a misogynist. If we look at the context of the bible in entirety there is a much more balanced view of the genders but of course, the books written by women were excluded…not by God, but by the men of the time. If we look to what Jesus said there is nothing that dismisses women as slaves. In fact, he lifted women from oppressive roles and it is likely that Mary Magdalene was a great teacher.
At any rate, Mick, I would hope that you know how to clean up after yourself. My sons, who are likely far younger than you, know to load their dishes when they grab a drink or a snack, to clean up if they track mud in and to wipe up around the toilet if they miss. That’s just common courtesy.
Chris, if I understand correctly, you believe you are the head of the house and, therefore, it is up to the wife to do all the respecting and you owe her none. Better go back and look up the word ‘submit’ in its original meaning and in the context of how it is written. “Submit” does not mean doormat. Also, christians are to submit “to each other”. The current use is nothing more than a misogynistic ploy to keep women ‘in their place’…which apparently is 3 steps behind their master.
You are right Melody. In fact, “submit” was a mistranslation either by accident or more likely on purpose as a tool of subjugation. Support is a more accurate translation.
Hit the nail on the head. It’s like every time I pick up my hubby’s things and put them away I feel annoyed that this grown man can’t just do it. It’s like I’m being treated with little respect and being used as a housemaid. I’m not a maid I’m another human being. He doesn’t understand why I get upset.
This man realized what he had after it was gone, and imparted that wisdom in hopes to help others avoid his mistake. If you can not learn from his wisdom than that is your limitation not your strength.
As a stay at home mom of ten plus years (this is not optional as my daughter has a disability) I thoroughly enjoyed this article. In fact I cried and not just a little tear but a waterfall. The author of this article hit the nail on the head. Prior to being a stay at home mom I worked full-time, enjoyed a paycheque that I could spend on myself, had co-workers and friends. Initially I had very high standards for cleanliness and would adhere to my own standards. My partner would say we obviously have different standards and walk away. We separated of a period during which I would clean his house as I was concerned for the kids health and safety. During the last 7 years he has never had to take time off work to deal with family issues, never. My kids have so many doctor appointments that even when I tried to go back to work I was let go twice. I always put them first because as a parent I love them to the moon and back. I know many parents who do not do this. Despite our medical challenges I would say we are doing amazing, I advocate for my kids on a daily basis, this is hard, beyond what I ever expected. I have to not care what other people think of me because if I did we would not be where we are. It sucks that I have to not care what my partner thinks of me either. I do what needs to get done. There isn’t a job description I can refer to, I can not ask for a raise, I do not get praise. I honour the time I get to spend with my kids not becauseI have been afford it without a guilty conscience. I am still made to feel guilty with comments like “this is not the life I want”. Life is what you make it. Be kind to stranger, but be kinder to your love ones for they will not always be around.
Shelley, I’m so sorry for all you’ve been through & I shed some tears myself through everything I read. It’s a hard life & it’s tough to be with someone who isn’t “with ” you. That makes it so hard when you feel as if you do everything for someone who is perfectly capable of doing it himself…putting his clothes where they belong, things in the dishwasher instead of the sik or counter. It’s a tuffy. I went to a seminar in Chicago years ago & the speaker spoker on “If you want to be treated like a king, treat your wife like a queen”. It was interesting but I will say this to the men out there, a woman will do anything for a man who loves her. Thanks to you other Christians who spoke up for the Lord Jesus. He will honor that! For the rest of you, be careful what you say. The Bible speaks of idle words & a coming judgement day when we will bend our knees to an almighty God.
Well said! You bring a lot of clarity to this issue. And maybe you’ve saved a marriage or two.
I’m sorry to many of the people here who will think otherwise but this really seems like an inability of communicate and instead resorting in passive aggressive behavior. THAT is what seemingly caused this divorce by the way it was presented to us.
Let me first preface this by acknowledging the fact that I understand what the author is saying in the fact one needs to respect the other party (his wife in this case) and to acknowledge her needs. She wants to be validated in the author taking consideration for her. I completely understand that. However…
We’re never told here that the wife was able to communicate this in a non-argumentative fashion. The author even leads us to believe arguments start for any odd reason and the cup is just thrown in as another jab of support that he’s failing in the relationship in some way. All people need to understand that the majority of humans can’t read each others minds! You could of given the stink eye and started the argument for any of a thousand things… I forgot a sentimental day, I accidentally got some water on your makeup brushes you leave right next to the sink, I forgot to take out the trash, I left the seat up, I didn’t say “I love you” in a week… and on and on the list is literally endless. You can’t expect the other party to know the core of why you’re agitated if it’s just an anecdote in your argument. Be clear, be specific!
Which brings me to my next point… Knowing ourselves and being honest with our significant other about it. We ALL have quirks and hangups, stuff that makes no logical sense to anyone but to ourselves. Own up to it if you want to have a successful marriage! If she was only able to say, “I know this makes no sense as to why it bothers me so much, but having any used dishes near the sink really drives me up the wall. I know you don’t want to make more dishes and may want to use that glass later but please place it on the dishwasher rack when you’re not using it, I don’t mind if you use another glass. Just don’t leave it near the sink.” As this does a few things. 1) Takes into consideration the other party’s reasoning showing you respect their logic for doing it in the first place [they aren’t just trying to annoy you] 2) Acknowledges that this is a quirk, as most people wouldn’t be so bothered by this. [Humanizes yourself] 3) ASKS for special consideration on this point and to highlight it as an emphasis point. [Respecting the other person to ask] 4) Conveys your own feelings toward this and possibly more insight into other aspects of yourself [opening up – deeper connection] 5) Gives a possible solution [How this can work for everyone] As this whole acknowledgement, respect, validation and love street works both ways.
One has to understand that most human beings are logical creatures, at least in our own minds. So if I can’t understand why something bothers you and you’re just yelling at me to change, I’m MUCH less likely to change than if you explained it’s a personal hang up and are asking for consideration. An example being like Sheldon in “Big Bang Theory” and his need to knock three times. Most of the audience (if you watch) knows it’s a quirk and allows it to occur, but you could also be the person who yells at him as you answered the door at the first knock and he still knocked an additional 2 more times. If there’s no understanding or asking of concession it can be incredibly aggravating and walls do go up and that’s the reason why many of these types of arguments go absolutely no where as there is no reasonable or logical reason for it in the mind of the opposite party.
We’re also given that the author knows it’s “not about the glass.” But the thing is, if these quirks or rubs (some lifestyle styles just don’t sync very well with other ones) go unvoiced and uncommunicated it’s just going to be something else. As the passive aggressive behavior will find another thing to dwell upon. As if you look, you will ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS find something that irks you and then dwell on IF YOU LET YOURSELF. If you maintain, mental or otherwise, a running list of all your partner’s failures to be able to recall to use as jib or argument support , you’ve already failed. Why? Because the issues are never put to bed, never put into the past, always looking backward, never allowing today to be a joy as a window into what can be accomplished in the future. You can’t change the past, you can only learn from it and move on but if the past is what you always refer to, they will never change in your eyes. As it’ll always be just another day til they relapse and fail AGAIN.
But that’s what I see for the now ex-wife… She was unable to own up to her own uniqueness and instead chose to make it a sticking point that grated down the relationship. Instead of giving insight into herself, she chose to make it a battleground… Unless she’s able to be honest with herself AND be able to communicate this to others, this is just going to happen again.
Many times the best advice is the simplest. The very simple idea of KISS or Keep It Simple Stupid. Don’t play games, don’t hint and have expectation they’ll get it, just tell the other person what’s bothering you, why it bothers you, how they can quit doing it and acknowledge them as being part of the solution and not the problem. And lastly… Sometimes a glass is just a glass. It’s not the other person trying to tell you FU or whatever other meaning one might derive from it…
He spoke his truth and I would bet she had tried honest kind communication besides being frustrated in moments. Every response to his blog that turns his truth around to make him innocent and her in question did NOT hear him. Re read.
You’re inserting your own truths here. As again, we’re NEVER told that
1) She was able to convey the needs of her hangup in a conversational tone
2) Able to self reflect and understand it is her own unique quirk – he’ll never understand why through reasoning.
3) Asked for consideration for her quirk.
The only truth we’re told here is that they argued and the glass was the underlying point but it’s not clear if she ever conveyed to him the dirty glass was the core problem.
Now, if she was able to self reflect and able to communicate her issue in a calm and constructive manner then yes, you would be right as he was unable to verify, respect, acknowledge and care about such a simple request. He wasn’t able to take her request into serious consideration and make a very slight modification of his own behavior pattern to make her life SO much better. But again, we’re never told this, you’re only assuming it here.
One needs to realize that passive aggressive behavior is one of the banes of EVERY marriage, every relationship. As it gives you free reign to blow up at anything… literally anything giving almost no reason for it as you never respect the other party enough to convey what irks you. He or she is just an idiot that will never understand so you have to bash it in, jib and prod, make constant annoying corrections… Make sarcastic remarks like, “Do you REALLY want to leave that there?” with absolutely no clear message. It’s a horrible way to try to strengthen a bond.
What the author DOES have here is a revelation. As to what the glass meant to his wife in after thought… After combing and sifting through all the arguments in his head many years (seemingly) finding that the glass was the repetitive theme. This would seem to indicate she never communicated this calmly, never understood that he wasn’t trying to tick her off, understood that she might be reacting a bit over the top. Revelations are just that, ideas to come out to sorting through lots and lots of past data – she wasn’t up front about it or he’s really really dense.
Again, the street of respect, love, acknowledgement and consideration goes both ways. Don’t expect people to read your mind – communicate your thoughts, be not only honest with yourself but to the other person you consider your partner in life, don’t hold onto resentment and quit looking to the past to see the future. It’s really really simple concepts that most people don’t fully grasp the seriousness of.
You’ve missed the point Vic. The point is that whether he understands his wife’s issue with the glass is completely irrelevant. All he needed to understand was that his wife had an issue with the glass and that he could avoid causing his wife major upset by doing something that took less than ten seconds every day. We’re not talking a major time investment here given the rewards. Obviously if his wife had issues that were requiring him to spend hours a day in pointless rituals to please her it might be different but the tragedy here was that she was making a very very simple request which required a tiny amount of effort. He didn’t make the tiny effort and he lost the woman he loved partly as a result. If you want your partner to stay with you your goal is to make them happy. For every single one of us that involves doing things we don’t want to sometimes.
wandathefish: Sorry for replying here but the system isn’t allowing me to respond directly to your comment.
Your comment assumes that the glass is the ONLY thing she ever argued about and not combined with any number of things that couples argue about. IF that’s true, you’re completely right as it was the ONE thing that she made readily apparent and he ignored it. He absolutely failed her in that regard. However, if this is like a typical relationship, the glass is just one underlying issue that gets buried under the innumerable number of other reasons couples argue.
IF the only thing wrong with the marriage was the glass near the sink, as the author was able to support her in her work, her social activities, her goals in life, he showed his love and help motivate her and all the other ways we rely on our partners… she CHOSE to allow the glass wreck the marriage. She CHOSE not to let that go. She CHOSE to allow the occasional glass near the sink negate an otherwise amazing marriage. If one obsesses about one thing and can’t let it go, it’s by choice. As we’re talking about an entire package of a partner and not nitpicking every single aspect. As if you want to look with a microscope, you will find flaws. It’s when you pick at them when things begin to breakdown. Your partner isn’t perfect, none of them will be. If you obsess about their flaws, you’re already on the road to losing them.
So I get the point, I do. What is misunderstood is that the relationship is MUCH more dynamic than just a glass. We show each other praise, accomplishment, validity and love in so many more ways than just one bad habit. A glass is just a glass until you make it represent something else. If she was unable to constructively convey this, as again he wouldn’t of had this revelation after the fact if she was up front about it, that’s on her. She relied on passive aggressive behavior to try and get a point across… and that’s never a good start.
My comment assumes nothing of the sort, Vic, but again the wider context of the relationship is irrelevant. Even if your partner is otherwise doing everything right (and Matt makes it clear that he wasn’t and that his wife felt completely alone and unsupported in general), if they ignore, devalue and minimise your feelings in one particular scenario that repeats itself over and over again then this is in itself quite a big deal. Matt knew that not putting his glass away was causing his wife a lot of upset even if he didn’t understand why and yet he was happy for her to experience this upset for the sake of his own convenience and saving a few seconds a day. I personally would not have cared about a glass left sitting out either but if my partner repeatedly behaved in a way that I’d told him upset me when the alternative would have taken almost no effort on his part at all then I too would see this as being a massive problem.
And you really don’t have the right to decide that the feelings of a woman you don’t know were simply choices and could have been switched on or off at will. If his wife could have solved the problem by simply switching her feelings off then she most likely would have done so. Until men learn to accept and respect their wives feelings rather than writing them off as nitpicking, marriage will continue to be a very unhappy place for too many women and husbands will continue to watch their wives pack up and leave. Again, Matt makes it clear that overall, the requests his wife made of him were not unreasonable.
All of that said, I admire Matt’s openness and his desire to try to make amends through this fantastic blog.
Again, you ASSUME she was able to convey this in a constructive manner. Yet we’re also told he didn’t understand what the glass meant during the marriage. Yet we’re here reading about his realization of the message the glass sent to her (which I agree with) much much after the fact. The only thing we’re told is the glass was used in arguments, could be combined with literally thousands of other arguments as that glass was the rubbing point BUT that always spills out to other things… Ex. Accusing him of being dirty, sloppy, give relation to his clothes, how he doesn’t hang all his jackets, place every one of his shoes into shoe caddies, how he doesn’t help cleaning around the house, how he relies on her to be his maid, how he doesn’t do the dishes, how he even leaves dishes near the sink only inches away from the dishwasher, doesn’t help out when company is over, doesn’t plan things… yada yada yada. You see how it can get lost in the whole scheme of things? I hope so… otherwise you’re expecting them to read your mind and somehow pluck that one point.
IF she had been able to convey her feelings about this point in a constructive, not just because “I told you to…” not just because she uses it as an argument point, he wouldn’t of had this realization so much after the fact! If you’re unable to constructively convey your feelings, you’re NOT going to get the response you’re looking for! It’s THAT simple!
It’s kind of silly that you’re looking at the situation in such a microcosm. An individual could do 99.999% of everything on point but all that will be wiped out because he didn’t pick up on this occasional glass. Yes, I understand it’s a small concession. Yes, I understand the meaning that could be attached to it. BUT to say that all the love, admiration, validation, respect and support he gave is nullified because of one small flaw is absolutely ridiculous unless you’re okay with focusing on the singular failure. As again, just like you said, it’s NOT about the glass. As it will be something else in the future, as we’re all inherently self serving first. This all implies as well that nothing does could make this one hang up serve as a neutral item, there’s nothing one can do to neutralize him placing the glass near the sink, if that’s the case the marriage was doomed from the start!
Additionally, he didn’t understand why the glass meant so much to her. She never explained it, she never internalized and was honest with herself that it might be a bit excessive to let it bother her so much. She never respected his logic, his reasoning, and helped him know he won’t rationally understand why. She never just said, “it’s something that really irks me, it’s a bit irrational why it does, but it does and I’m letting you know this.” As trying to have him agree as to WHY it does… will never happen, the only message she needs to convey is that it does and he can help alleviate that. The fact he’s realizing this now would seemingly indicate she didn’t!
As I said numerous times the street of respect, validation and love goes both ways. IF she was able to convey her feelings constructively and he ignored it… it’s primarily on the author. However, if she was never able to single out this specific issue and what a possible solution would be then that’s primarily on her. Both sides can help each other out, but as we saw here, they weren’t able to successfully convey the message or create the change in behavior.
You need to understand a marriage is a relationship between two equals. Each have their own equivalent sense of reasoning, both do things because it makes sense to them, both do things because each respects one another. What happens when one side changes their personality and habits EVERY time one side complains about something? It diminishes the conformer as in this case his reasoning isn’t important, his quirks need to be repressed, his habits are the ones that needs to be modified. It’s almost like you’re blindly siding with the woman as being the victim here. BOTH sides could of changed in this situation for the benefit of the marriage… We’re not even sure the message was conveyed, as it obviously wasn’t received in time to save the marriage. If you can’t see that and just want to blindly point a finger at the author just because he’s having a self realization after the fact… well, that just means the one who has the realization is always wrong and ignores the process that happened LONG before. Which is idiotic as that always blames the one who spends the time to gain an understanding…
The writer said that she expressed her feelings; but he did not agree with her, so he diregarded her. He stated that even if he had understood the complete pain this caused her, he still would have only argued his point, instead of ending her pain. The problem is NOT the glass beside the sink. The problem was a lack of respect for his wife. The many men responding to this article and bashing this woman and her feelings speaks to how little we have accomplished in husband’s respecting women and their feelings and the tiring never ending work that keeping a home with other people living in it entails.
D. Allen: It actually doesn’t say that.
This is what the author actually wrote. He entitles the section
“‘Hey Matt! Why would you leave a glass by the sink instead of putting it in the dishwasher?’
It’s an open ended question, it’s a snide remark, it gives zero specificity, zero solutions. Further he goes on to say the following after he lists his logic for doing what he did.
“There is only ONE reason I will ever stop leaving that glass by the sink. A lesson I learned much too late: Because I love and respect my partner, and it REALLY matters to her. I understand that when I leave that glass there, it hurts her— literally causes her pain—because it feels to her like I just said: “Hey. I don’t respect you or value your thoughts and opinions. Not taking four seconds to put my glass in the dishwasher is more important to me than you are.”
It’s ambiguous when he learns leaving the glass causes her pain. Be it during his realization or when it was happening. That’s why I’ve always predicated my responses with IF she conveyed the message clearly in a non-argumentative setting. I’ve also predicated all my responses with if she got the message across and he ignored it, he’s at fault. Re-read every one of my responses, it’s in there.
It’s a communication issue first then a consideration issue second. Not the other way around if we’re talking a marriage of equals…
Vic, I’m sorry but you just don’t get it on any level at all and I don’t think you ever will despite your protestations to the contrary. You are writing at increasingly great length about all of the things that are completely irrelevant, mainly her ability to explain the problem to him. The whole point of the author’s post is that this is irrelevant and until you understand why this is irrelevant you cannot understand why his behaviour and his behaviour alone brought about the end of his marriage. And this business of minimising the glass thing is exactly what the author was guilty of. It is a huge deal. It made his wife feel awful on a regular basis. If you are feeling awful on a regular basis it is simply not possible for 99.99999% of everything else to be right. The behaviour poisons everything and makes a relationship between equals impossible.
wandathefish: You’ve become so blind in your bond with his now ex-wife that you fail to grasp the need for communication. You write:
“You are writing at increasingly great length about all of the things that are completely irrelevant, mainly her ability to explain the problem to him. The whole point of the author’s post is that this is irrelevant and until you understand why this is irrelevant you cannot understand why his behaviour and his behaviour alone brought about the end of his marriage”
You do understand what you just wrote correct? What I wrote is about COMMUNICATION. So the forming of her message to him about her pain is irrelevant, the sending of that message is irrelevant, the receiving of that message is irrelevant, the comprehension he can be part of the solution is irrelevant, the gaining of a mutual understanding of this and future issues is irrelevant. It’s just conform or end this marriage because she has a hang up. THAT’s what you just said. THAT is not a marriage. That is servitude.
You’re SO focused on how easy of a change it is you neglect to see that if you’re unable to convey the message, nothing will ever happen. Let’s use the only reference we have as a question to you about something considered very normal (at least for me).
‘Hey wandathefish! Why would you leave a your toothbrush by the sink instead of putting it in the cubbord?’
Now, if I asked you that, would you know I was angry about it? Would you know I hate a bathroom counter that has stuff left on it? Would you know that it’s the one thing that drives me steps toward leaving forever? Like your answer is NO. You’d likely just answer with your reasons. This question is one of two things… a genuine question asking why you placed the toothbrush where you did or a passive aggressive message trying to TEACH (you aren’t my mother so why are you trying to underhandedly teach me a life lesson?) you about a relatively mundane habit that can be improved. Not that it’s the thing that drives me insane, not that it’s really important, but just that I noticed you left your toothbrush there. If you can’t see how the importance gets lost and by that question alone you’ll never know how much it hurts to see it… you truly are expecting him to read your mind or body language as you’re unable to make thoughts into words. Like I tell my 4 year old cousin… “use your words.” And he’s able to more effectively communicate his wants than that question to you would.
If you want to believe you’re a partner in the marriage, treat them as an equal, respect that their purpose in life isn’t to irk you. Communicate first and leave the passive aggressive BS out of it. If they ignore your request, then make decisions you can’t come back from. But a marriage without communication isn’t a marriage at all. And wandathefish, I hope you now are getting some understanding of that.
Additionally, just so you get off this.. I know it’s a 4 second act to place the glass in the dishwasher. I know it’s a tiny concession. I know the author should have done it for no reason except to show he loves his wife. He doesn’t need an explanation, just know it makes her feel better. Trust me I get it. But that completely bypasses the wife being able to form the a competent message informing him it bothers her in the first place! If one don’t know, one can’t do anything about it. It’s really really simple, if you don’t get that then this conversation is hopeless. I hope the toothbrush question gave some light into how important communication is but if not… oh well, you’re intent upon thinking what you’ll think as seriously I’m not disagreeing with you – only saying there’s a step before action.
I think most of you are educated way above the norm, and can understand the pov of the dicussion, the rest of us suffered most of our lives in ignorance of relationship success.
I thought he indicated that he was being deliberately obtuse about the dishes, and now he regrets his part in the marriage breakdown. You’ve convoluted it all over the place.
Not putting the glass in the dishwasher when he knew that’s all she wanted because he felt, at the time, that her wants were invalid, was also passive aggressive. You have missed the point entirely.
I think the first half of this article is more accurate than the second half. It’s basic, really. It’s less complicated that ‘your wife wants to be loved and respected.’ Basically it’s this: your wife is your life partner. She is not your mother.
Your wife wants you to figure housekeeping stuff out by yourself, same as she does. Your wife wants you to pick up after yourself and sort any messes you make yourself, same as she does. Your wife wants you to keep communal areas of the house tidy, so that everybody gets to use them equally.
In any partnership, it’s nice to think that both partners can step up to the plate if need be. A wife who lives with a husband who does lazy stuff like leave dirty glasses by the dishwasher KNOWS that if something goes wrong and she gets sick or is out of the picture for a while, the house is going to be a huge guddle for her to wade through once she gets back on her feet. He will have gone all helpless on her and pretended this housework lark is all too hard for him to grasp.
That’s not a partnership, is it?
such clarity, and acceptance. good to read. thanks -J
I needed to read this. I would never want to lose my fiance because of my lack of cleaning skills. This just put it into a whole new perspective for me. Thank you!
This post makes me afraid to be married. Like legit think I might day sad and alone on purpose. Also your ex-wife sounds like my dad. Who I can’t live with because it’s awful. My father always harps on the smallest details to the point where everything just blended into “I will never be happy with anything you do” now I can’t handle it when people get obsessed with tiny details that don’t matter it makes me feel distant and powerless to make another person happy. Jesus. Now I understand what all those damn Tumblr kids mean when they talk about triggering. Literally woke up feeling great and now I am tearing up in a chair. Also maybe I misunderstood but it sounded like you were saying women shouldn’t have to bother with healthy communication? The idea I might be hurting someone consistently without knowing it is terrifying. I just don’t think I’ll ever be good enough.
I assure you Ryan, I didn’t suggest women shouldn’t bother with healthy communication.
I DID say:
1. Love requires we sometimes care about things we don’t naturally care about simply because our partner’s do.
And I implied (and have specifically stated in hundreds of other posts):
2. Husbands should worry about being great husbands first, and the shortcomings of their wives, second. You know, the whole “Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones” thing. Be a great husband/boyfriend. Observe its effect on your relationship. Make judgements from there. Don’t point fingers and say “Well! If she would be a better wife/girlfriend, THEN I would be better too!!!” Because: That’s bullshit.
3. Have strong, fair, thoughtful personal boundaries. Respect yourself. Only be with people who respect themselves. Two people who respect themselves who are willing to love one another unselfishly will NOT have stupid fights about housework.
Know you’re worth. It’s defined by you and no one else. Find someone who knows her worth too. Someone who recognizes yours. Cut loose ANYONE, QUICKLY, who refuses to respect you or recognize your worth.
Do those things while loving unselfishly and there’s simply very little chance you’re going to have major relationship problems.
Thank you for reading.
You forgot to have someone proofread your post before publishing. Have some respect and don’t leave your grammar by the sink.
Thanks James! I write all my posts in about an hour over my work lunch breaks. I don’t have a professional editor or anything. It’s just me all by myself. Also. I break lots of rules on purpose.
Because. I. Do. What. I. Want.
If you are always this wordy. that’s the real reason she left.
I’m always this wordy! That must be it, Harvey. Mystery solved!
I would rather have a “wordy” mate than one whom never talks to me! Or worse, says so little I have no idea if he heard me or understood what I was saying/asking! I would rather have a long discussion that both identifies issues and discusses ways to address issues than the blame game, abuse of any kind, or being frozen out. I agree with your idea that communication and respect are needed on both sides.
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I read this article and thought, wow, someone described exactly what happened to my marriage. I agree with fleurdolls above (in fact, I was about to cut/paste the exact section fleurdolls did). You articulated the the mother vs. partner issue really well.
The glass issue is more nuanced. And it’s separate from the partner vs. mother issue, at least it was for my situation. It’s not about laziness or who does the cleaning or anything like that. It’s mostly what you actually said, which is that sometimes you do things for people not because you agree with their rationale (though notice that I didn’t say the reasoning is irrational – though it can be sometimes! – but rather that you don’t agree with their rationale) but because you know it’s really important to them or makes their life easier in way and you are not giving up something central to your own identity as a person to do it. Or, since there are some (metaphorical) glasses that you just can’t or won’t put away the same way she would – or vice versa – then you take it seriously enough to have an honest discussion about why and work together to find a compromise you both can live with. But simply leaving those glasses unaddressed day in and day out erodes the mutual respect critical to a marriage and undercuts the relationship just as you described. I just feel it’s a separate issue from being able to feel confident delegating each other tasks as partners.
That said, I was going to say that perhaps you should have posted these topics separately since it seems from the comments that the message got a little muddled. And yet, together, these two reasons are exactly why my marriage fell apart.
Thank you for having the courage to share your introspection.
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I get the point of this. It isn’t just about the cup, but about communication and effort on both ends. The wife could have helped the relationship by coming up with a compromise that suited both parties instead of letting the cup be a wedge in their relationship. The husband could have just put away the stupid cup, but it all comes down to effort. Either one or both parties gave up at some point.
You know, I teach my children a lesson, one that is taught just about every day… “it’s not nice to make a mess that somebody else has to clean up.” And really, it isn’t nice. Not even a little bit nice. And it’s even more not nice when the person making the mess is a full grown adult who is fully capable of seeing the mess and fully capable of cleaning it up all on their own. When a person CHOOSES not to clean up after themselves they are essentially saying, “my time is more valuable than yours. Therefore, you should attend to the messes that I make.” It’s not a nice way to live and you wouldn’t want someone to treat you like a maid, so why would anyone think it acceptable to treat their spouse like one?”
This is a good point. If someone in a relationship do a lot of work managing a home on top of everything else she/he has going on in their life, give them credit & respect. My father doesn’t respect my mother in the same sense & has taken full advantage of her for so long, but he doesn’t see it.
I enjoyed this post very much! I often think this way and try really hard to always be this way. I love my wife (whom I am currently separated from) with all of my heart. She wanted the separation, not me. I try to explain stuff like this to her because I truly feel this should be reciprocated, I do not tell her this, I just try to show it. When I first met my wife, I immediately fell for her, and she for I, I think anyway. We moved out of state immediately after marriage for my work. I moved first to get a place and get settled in, then 10 months later she followed. She hated it where we moved, but there was no other opportunity available. She would not accept friendship, or happiness of any kind. No matter what!! To make a long story short, this is why I believe it should be reciprocated. I really don’t care for it here either but I’m putting up with it because I want to provide for my family (no children, just her and I) I want to make her happy. I’m so very torn with this struggle and don’t know what to do…. please help!!
Best marriage article ever written.
~ Newly blissfully divorced after 27 years
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This is how my ex partner of five years treated me, and it’s one of the reasons I broke up with him. The difference between your wife, and me though, is that I did communicate my needs to my partner, but he did not listen, he questioned why it would even bother me, or why I even felt it was important, because if it was not important to him, then why should it be so me?
When it comes to the needs of your partner, and discussing what those needs are, it is important to remember that what you need is simply what you need, and if your partner can not give you what you need, and if you cannot reach a compromise, then you need a different partner.
Your wife needed a different partner, and you needed to lose her in order to see your mistakes.
Thank you so much for writing this. I hope more men will read it, and understand the point you are making, one of which is this; Husbands, your wife is your partner, not your mother, and you are not a baby, so stop acting like one.
And I would like to make this point; When your wife, or lady friend has an emotional reaction to something you don’t think is a big deal, don’t tell her that she is being irrational, or that she is acting crazy, because this is the patriarchy in action, working through you, telling her that her feelings are invalid, and that is abusive on so many levels. She is not being irrational, she is not acting crazy, what is happening is that you have made her upset, and you don’t want her to be.
Relationships are about mutual respect, not dominance of one over the other.
I understand what this story is.trying to say, but the.reality of it is the wife is a very selfish person. before she entered into this relationship with him she loved him for who he was or she wouldn’t of said I do. No matter what differences you have in a relationship because every relationship has differences. No relationship is perfect, you except your partner no matter what his or her flaws are, i’m sure this husband has.things he gets annoyed about with her but he loves her so much that he accepts it. That is what a marriage is, a marriage is a commitment. A marriage is working together and not changing someone to be what you want them to be. If the guy has a habit to leave a glass by the sink and not put it in the dishwasher , then so be it. Instead of getting furious about it talk to him about it, I’m sure he isn’t doing it to disrespect her, this falls under the same thing as a guy leaving the toilet seat up. If you get that bent out of shape over little things,then to me the wife sounds like a self centered selfish person and just looking for a reason to be pissed off. So something else is stirring in her, she is probably screwing around on him etc.. and looking for an excuse to make herself feel that she is a victim when in reality the husband is the victim, she is the one that needs to look in the mirror and realize how pathetic she is, and sounds. if she thinks grass is greener on the other side then good luck to you.and I feel sorry for the next person that enters into her life. I know someone can’t force someone to love them but marriage isn’t always about love , Marriage is a commitment to God and every relationship will have it’s ups and down,so when you said I do, you choose to stand by that partner no matter what isnt thst whst was said in the vows? My suggestion for this wife is to look at the big picture and ask herself , will I be ok knowing that my husband won’t be there.for me anymore and is it worth losing him for your selfish needs?, is the glass by the sink that bad for me to want to leave him? Something so minor, maybe think of all the worst things that he could be doing to to you that he doesnt do to you, like beating you or treating you like total shit all the time because your next partner that you meet if you do end up meeting someone else, could be abusive and do worse things then leaving a glass by the sink, so again it’s your choice. If you think the grass is greener on the other side then Good luck to you , but I’m sure your in for a rude awakening. And for.the husband, you don’t need to be married.to someone that is so selfish and self centered , alot more fish in the sea, time will heal all wounds, don’t blame yourself for your wife’s selfish actions because her.time will come if she chooses to not work this out and leaves you because she will have to live with the fact that she is all about herself and no relationship will ever work for her. if she is so self centered.
I think my husband and I roles are reversed. He acts like the girl and I act like the guy. What do you do with that? I believe I am like that because so many people died in my life over a 3 year period that were close to me – tragically, suddenly. It made me realize none of this stuff matters. I figure if I die before my husband, he’ll finally get it. And I do get, and even agree, with the entire article. I also believe him trying to force me into respecting him or saying I’m a selfish & terrible person will never get him what he wants. Especially when I do make the sincere effort. The only way he would be happy is if I just became his robot in the name of love & respect. So, I stopped trying and guess what? There is finally some peace in the house as I return to God <3
It starts with leaving a glass out and then it just keeps piling on until from the moment you wake up all your thinking is what do I need to be doing for my wife right now? Should I do this? Maybe I shouldn’t do that? Would she want me to do this right now? How might she react If I do that for her? That one time she wanted me to do this but last time she was annoyed by it..You start overthinking everything and trying to take initiative to everything she has asked you to do or not do to the point that you Might forget something she has asked of you. So while you simply missed one thing due to the fact that there are hundreds of other things you are trying to remember and change about yourself to make here feel respected and loved,she takes it as you not caring about her. She is slowly trying to mold you into this precise husband that she wants you to be and wants you to do everything the exact way she does it. It gets to the point where she doesn’t even see all the positive out of you and only notices the things that bother her. The things she loved about you In the beginning become an after thought and she only points out when you don’t do something right. She wants you to say and do all the “right” things at the exact “right ” moment she wants them and when you try, it’s not enough. She needs time…It starts to eat at you because you have never tried so hard at something In your life to only “let her down” over and over. The harder you try the more you start to “mess up”. You’re not even yourself anymore. Every day is “why can’t I make her happy? “. But we have to keep trying only to let her down because if we don’t ,we are “giving up”, and “not trying” hard enough. I’ve never asked her to change anything because I love her the way she is while she won’t even let me wear a hat anymore because she thinks I look bad in it. That’s the difference.
This is how I experienced it, too. This was really well written. I think a lot of people will relate to it, and it’s important for wives to understand THIS is how it feels. This is how we see and feel this from the other side (if we’re legit trying to love and respect our wives and have a good marriage together).
I would only add that there is an awareness that needs to be included in all of this. From both husband and wife.
If the husband “gets” why the dish matters. And the wife “gets” how her communication FEELS to her husband like accusations of inadequacy, and both partners consciously make the effort to help one another not feel shitty from these little moments in life, then I think everything changes.
It’s possible that NOTHING physically changes. Our minds and hearts just see things through a healthier prism, and the negative consequences and relationship damage disappears.
Hell. Maybe even the opportunity to tell one another we understand that the other is feeling a certain way, and we’re sorry, and intend to avoid that as much as possible, can even turn one of these annoying little moments into a positive thing.
I don’t pretend to know.
I just hope so.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Yes, and you know what’s even harder? When you try to communicate to her (in so many words, or not) that you’re losing yourself to her bottomless dissatisfaction and she feels bad about it but she can’t help herself. She says that’s just the way she is. She can’t help feeling hurt when you didn’t do what she wanted the way she wanted it. You try to set boundaries but the conflict distresses her. She’s probably also negative about other things, friendships or situations. You want her to feel happy from within, but her negativity is spilling out and affecting you too. In such a situation, you’re not your best self, you always feel like the bad guy, and you keep screwing up until you get jaded or burned out.
I have actually told my wife to leave the dishes for me; it relaxes me and gives me some ‘me’ time. But, I must ask, what if the times when a guy does do certain gestures out of love and/or necessity (I take co-ownership of our house, and take a lot of pride in hard work) only to be chided because it suggests, to her, that she’s not doing enough. I clean, too because I like clean. I’ve been doing my own laundry since I could reach the buttons, even with a loving mother around, but we were taught responsibility. But then, I’m thrown under the bus because my choice to launder clothes undermines her role as a housewife. (Those are less often – I forgot the fight and just help folding now.) But, we do have the glass arguments… Our ‘favorite’ might be lists. I’m not a home decorator; I didn’t marry you to have one, I married you for a million great reasons to build a great life together. But I cannot read minds, and I forget things. I ask for lists. We fight 10x more about making a list than it takes me to complete the list. I get the ‘find it, do it’ attitude, but I won’t find something I can’t see and can’t fathom the need for on my own. Amen?
Pardon me, grammar police…iPhone…
Amen, sir.
I agree 100-percent with what you just wrote. Give all you have to give, and then whatever happens next, at least you KNOW you’re giving your all.
This post isn’t for you, if you’re doing that.
This post was for all the guys like me, who, even though we love our wives and families and ideally wanted to be married forever, we made a bunch of tiny little selfish choices all the time–sometimes it’s a “dish,” and sometimes it’s something else–and it erodes the relationship.
I have to trust that intellectually honest people have the ability to ask themselves the right questions.
The innocent are the innocent. The guilty are the guilty.
I was guilty. Not BAD. Just guilty. Because I strive to be a good person, I’m going to work harder in the future to apply what I’ve learned to do things the right way. To never have to feel guilty again for not giving enough.
Thank you for not being like me.
And thank you for reading and commenting. It’s appreciated.
So my wife sent this so that I would recognize my dis-service to her. We have discussed unreasonable expectations such as mind reading, ie you would just do this if you loved me. But I can’t expect the same consideration. Several times I have told her she can just stop doing anything for me. I will do them for myself. But there isn’t any control in this and she can’t complain about how horrible I am.
I will say that I am beat down and I feel like things cant get any worse.
So it come to this if you want something ask. I don’t feel any remorse if you choose
not to convey your expectations. Love and respect has nothing to do with reading minds.
Or in truth meeting either reasonable or unreasonable expectations. Control has
nothing to do with love.
Some people tend to apply the same methods used for dealing with children as they deal
with their spouses and then wonder why it doesn’t work…. Really!?
here is the model
Demand: I SAY YOU DO
Accusing: When this doesn’t work some are called unloving disrespectful jerks.
Aggression: Some form of retribution
Separation: create “distance” ie they care less about whatever thing evoked
the situation initially.
I argue that if the demand was replaced with “can you do this for me” the model could be short circuited.
So lets discuss this mystical unicorn called love.
Love is a choice all this emotional expectation stuff we attached to love has to do with infatuation and has nothing to do with real love. Love is this… when you or I make horrible choices someone chooses to stay versus leave.
Why is the divorce rate so high? Because everyone is selfish. Knowing this doesn’t
change our feelings It doesn’t change the fact we act on these feelings sometimes
in very hurtful and negative ways. Are we really so much more enlightened than any creature on this planet?
Love comes down to this… despite our feelings or our circumstances we decide to forgive.
Forgiveness come from love. Love doesn’t exist without it.
This said forgiveness isn’t blindness or forgetfulness, these traits encourage things
to continue in unhealthy ways. So love has to be tempered with truth. Truth
can be hurtful but love doesn’t exist without truth.
Finally love also needs hope. This is the greatest component of love it strengthens us when we think things can’t change. Love doesn’t exist without hope.
Now I am not excluding our feelings. We need what we want. But following a simple rule can reduce friction. Keep focused on the goal not the method. If your needs can only be met by certain precise process then you have unreasonable expectations and you need to work on controlling your feelings.
The following are some examples:
If you want help with the dishes done DO NOT complain because there aren’t enough dishes in the dishwasher.
If you want help with the laundry done DO NOT complain if the shirts aren’t on the hanger like you want.
If you want help with the cleaning the house DO NOT complain about the piles of crap that get thrown away.
So if you think this doesn’t work for you then do as you will as we all will do anyway.
This is much clearer, well thought out, and constrictive than the OP. No disrespect to Matt, btw. Just thatbthis comment hits the target squarer…as in bullseye. Thank You.
I loved this post! I really try to not sweat the small stuff in life and I keep my priorities straight. Of course it’s just a glass, people! It isn’t about the darn glass. It’s very simple. If any wife says it bothers her, she is taking the time to say so because she CARES about their relationship. She wants life to be happy and go smoothly, and this issue can be solved easily and everyone can carry on and not look back. It’s all good. If she communicates this , she is not picking a fight. Any Husband that thinks that she is, he is defensive and a big baby. Husband does something that takes two seconds and wifey is happy. This is a win-win and it is true “happy wife, happy life”. People make things harder than they have to be, I guess to feed their own ego, be selfish and passive aggressive.
Why is it that everyone who has a negative opinion on the article gets told that they missed the point (and should reread the article) ?
By the same people too.
Why is it so hard to imagine that someone read the article, understood the point perfectly and disagrees with it?
Because I’m a genius and never wrong, except for that one time.
I’m not totally sure. But that’s probably the reason.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! thanks Sam
I agree. Stale logic and bad writing are common in anything that gets overshared on Facebook.
Stale logic, my ass!
But you’re right: My writing is absolutely dreadful.
Perhaps because many (most) of those disagreeing with the post illustrate that they didn’t get the point when they explain/express their disagreement.
These people seem to fall into a handful main categories:
1. The enraged “Your wife is a terrible human being for divorcing you over dirty dishes!” people.
2. The “Why can’t MY feelings be catered to first?” crowd.
3. The angry “Why do you hate men? Women are worse!” dudes.
4. The “Hate to tell you, Matt, but your wife didn’t divorce you over dishes. There was probably something else” masters of the obvious.
Anyone who’s responded in one of those or a similar fashion didn’t get the point.
Funny, he was talking about the people who “do” get it, yet have a differing opinion.
The irony here is, I don’t think you get Sam’s post.
No, I understood his question. That’s how I was able to answer it.
People who “do” get it wouldn’t offer any of the responses I cited above. And most (not all) of those disagreeing are offering one of those responses or something very similar.
I wish oh was smart enough to have said that
It’s ironic, isn’t it? Anyone who bothers to take the time and energy to post their negative opinion is probably motivated by feelings of some sort (indignation, frustration, etc.). Like the same hurt feelings that fuel the glass situation. So those who feel hurt by the implications of the post are having their feelings being dismissed by those who believe it’s wrong to discount a spouse’s feelings.
So the article itself is sort of a glass situation. The only difference is that blog commenters aren’t married to each other and don’t owe each other a win/win situation. If you’re bothered by the article, your feelings can be judged as invalid or distorted. So that’s why… they tell you you’re missing the point because they value their perspective more than they owe you the right to agree to disagree 😉
I meant to add: I would love to have this scenario: saying in a fun, humorous way: “hey! Mr. Messy, my maid uniform is at the cleaners…permanently. Your mother lives 5 states away, so pick up your as- and put away that glass! If you do, you’re all mine tonight?
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Cute Sheri! That *might work better than nagging. I think the point here is: if your spouse has a need than do your best to fulfill it even if you think it is not important. That said, we should all pick our battles. We want our spouse to fulfill our most important needs (that they are able to fill of course). If we have too many requests they become obsessed or defeated or just plain confused. One woman may care about a glass by the sink or dirty laundry on the floor, and a man may care about a woman being late or making him food, or vice versa. But the point is if you don’t care for the needs of your spouse (whether or not you think it is important) they may leave you. And yes it is their decision to leave instead of trying to work it out, but still they will be gone and it will partly be your fault.
Thanks Cora! I posted in response. Scroll down and see. Thank you,
I wonder, how many women agreeing with the point of this story deny their husband intimacy on a regular basis. It would be interesting to see how many don’t equate the importance of that with their need to feel loved and validated.
Before the torches come out, this was a thought, not an accusation.
See: Point #2 in my response above.
If you withhold intimacy until you get what you feel you need, are you also not in the “me first crowd?”
That’s different than what you said.
And misses the point. And wrongly equates intimacy with picking up after oneself, as if the act (and desire to do the act) is the mental, emotional and physical equivalent of putting a glass in the dishwasher.
And, worst of all, posits intimacy as something with which women reward men.
But I’ll try to answer anyhow.
Yes, any person who withholds intimacy from his or her partner for the purpose of extracting certain behaviors or obtaining certain actions/benefits/rewards is acting selfishly. A wife who says “I’ll have sex with you, but only if you buy me those earrings I’ve been eyeing” is a lousy wife.
That said, that’s a very different scenario than a person who lacks the desire to be intimate with his/her partner because said is in constant need of mothering, or is not holding up his/her end of the relationship, or fails to make him/her feel safe, or exhibits other unattractive behaviors and traits, etc. It’s not at all unreasonable or selfish to withhold intimacy from a spouse who’s unattractive and unable or unwilling to be a full partner in the relationship. Why would anyone want to be intimate with a person like that?
I didn’t equate the 2, nor did I say it was a reward. It was a question about meeting the needs of the other. What I was asking was to make women here think and wonder if they are being fair. Do they expect the little things that many have been complaining about here to be done for them, but they don’t do some of the things their husband needs? That is the only reason for the question. If the answer to my question is “yes” then it says all I need to know about the person.
This will not let me reply under the part I wanted to reply under, but here it goes. I am sure lots of people (male & female alike) whom use intimacy, aka sex, as a weapon to force or coerce their supposed partner into doing what they want. I wish it was not true.
I know in my 1st marriage (he is dead now) he would demand I give him sex if I wanted things I needed, such as shoes that fit for the kids after the old ones had holes & were 2 sizes too small. More often than not, he would refuse carry through on the promises. Yes, that male was definitely in the “me first” crowd as you put it, even at the cost of his kids health and/or well-being.
I am glad to say I have never used any form of intimacy to coerce anyone. I won’t even use refusing to give my kids affection, love, or hugs until they obey coercion like my parents did.
I am probably denied intimacy more often than not in my current relationship. I will hope it is just because I am currently 15 pounds over weight, or I have made some mistake that he has yet in the last 5 years to enlighten me too so I can change. (Yes, the weight gain has happened after the sexual rejection started.) I hope the intimacy has not become a trickle for reasons that mean we should be separated.
Reblogged this on Serendipity Indigo and commented:
This is so well crafted & cuts to the heart of 90% of all arguments I have ever had with my spouse.
:'( Thank you for this. I wish my therapist or my beloved believed the same. As my marriage & PTSD therapist (same person for both) put it …. As the wife I do *not* have the right to ask him to be considerate of me, or to change anything he does that hurts me, because I am worthless person & the only person that matters in a marriage is the man. It is the wife’s job to suck it up & realize that only the man’s upbringing, wants, needs, ideas count. If those hurt her, belittle her, cause her grief that is her fault for being selfish and inconsiderate person. I must change to only care about what makes him happy.
You desperately need to find a new therapist, like, NOW.
Yes! Get a new therapist! Marriage is a partnership. Period. If your husband doesn’t know what that means, ask him to look it up. If he doesn’t like what partnership means, or entails, but you do, it’s best to part ways.
I should divorce my wife for making me read this article. I know pandering when I see it. I’ll put the cup away when you come to my office and generate some revenue. In fact, I’m going to go home and make an enormous mess with the kids, feed them a box of cake icing, and leave to grab a beer with my friends while she tries to clean up and put them to bed. Then when I come home and she’s passed out from exhaustion, I’ll put my Wahl clippers to her yap box and shave a 3″ extension to her forehead. That way I don’t have to worry about her running off with some other guy who likes to clean up after himself. Those guys would never date a woman with a giant bald patch. If you’re still reading this, I love you very much and will do my best to keep you in mind and not piss you off unnecessarily, but only if the activity you require can be completed in 5 seconds or less. Eyeluffyerfayce.
You’re the worst thing that ever happened to me. I should have listened to my mother, my friends, and my ex boyfriend about you. You are selfish, arrogant, manipulative, and I hate you. If it wasn’t for the kids I would have smothered you in your sleep by now. I only hope and pray that they do not develop your bad habits and traits or I will smother them in their sleep too. Not only do you not clean up after yourself after I expressly tell you how much it pisses me off, but you drag dirt in from outside when I just finished cleaning the floors, you never close the door or turn on the fan when taking a giant smelly s*** in the bathroom, and you blow your nose and leave your booger rags all over the place for me to pick up after you. You are a disgusting child and I hope your vasectamy results in your giant smelly balls atrophying and falling from your fat hairy groin. If you’re still reading this I want you to know that every morning I wake up next to you I think about all the hard work you put in and great things you provide for me, for the kids, and for the rest of our family. It makes me proud because I know that I really did pick a winner who knows how to make me happy when it counts and who is truly a good person in every way that matters. I love you immensely and we’ll try not to get upset at your disgusting habbits. You are a gross and raunchy man with extremely redeemable qualities. Now get off your ass and wash the dishes before I tell the people at yout office what you ordered from Adam and Eve last week.
It’s funny how man say they don’t understand women. And women say they don’t understand man… Do you really think anybody truly understand any other person?
You could write the story changing sex of characters and it would still sound plausible. Sure, maybe for man it would be displacing his screwdriver by his wife, even though he asked her to put it in the black box and not just leave on the table…
I think the problem here really is that you let problems accumulate and be repetitive. If it would just be literally about that glass though I still think that means the couple didn’t talk or didn’t listen to each other.
Wow, I feel incredibly blessed and lucky! My husband and I have been married for 21+ years. But, early on in our marriage, he would always tell me “Of course I’ll help around the house, all you have to do is ask!” And, he’d be all happy and bright eyed, like he was being the most helpful and reasonable person on the planet. We built our first house together during the second year of our marriage. By the time we moved into that house, I was done with the whole “just ask me” thing. I finally completely lost my shit at him and very angrily asked why the hell should I have to ask him to clean his own damn house??? I’m not his mother or his housekeeper, I’m his wife. We both worked full time, so there was absolutely no reason why I should have to ask him to pick up after himself, and just throw in with me to get everything else done.
Apparently I am among the luckier women in the world because my husband got it. After that episode of me totally losing it and screaming at him like an absolute shrew, he admitted that he had never thought of cleaning and housework in those terms. His mom had done everything at his childhood home and it just never occurred to him that he should think of doing anything about cleaning or even picking up after himself. It took a while for us to work out what needed to be done and who should do it. I’m incredibly picky about how things are done, so I had to give a lot on my standards and just let him do things his way. And, he had to admit when he had NO CLUE how to do something, and ask for help.
I still get exasperated with him when he leaves half full glasses of whatever he’s drinking all over the house. And, he still gets exasperated with me when I take the glass he drinking from, empty it and put it in the dishwasher if he happens to walk away from it for a while. 🙂
Culturally women are indoctrinated to accommodate men – to notice what bothers them, apologize, and change her behavior or habit without being asked and without pointing it out. We see this in the Pantene “not sorry” commercial where a man sits down and bumps the woman’s elbow off the shared armrest and SHE apologizes for taking up too much space. It’s obscenely common. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzL-vdQ3ObA
I think, like you said, men see their moms do this and expect it from their wives. The wives don’t want to get divorced, so they accommodate and model that to another generation.
Good for you – and your husband – for being able to work through this.
Wonderful that your husband “got it” at least to some extent. He made effort! That shows he cares beyond himself! Guys!!!! This is all we women want! Best of luck Robin! Give your hubby a thank you, tell him you consider yourself one of the lucky ones and he will keep that effort going
This is a case of a wife that was already banging another guy and needed an excuse to get divorced. If not, she was completely screwed in the head. No woman under normal circumstances is that neurotic.
I loved everrrry single part of this. It was an amazing read, carefully structured, witty and interesting and isn’t it everything woman have been wanting a man to understand?! That it is not the actual act of, in this case, not putting the glass away but the fact that despite me expressing how much it may irritate me you still choose not to do it, which ultimately shows a lack of respect. Love it. I could read it a million times and more.
Reblogged this on A TRAPPED SOUL. and commented:
This is an amazing read and the message behind it is so powerful.
A great read!!!! You’re right!! It’s not about the glass by the sink, it’s about everything else she still has to do. Like moving your clothes off the floor, moving your shoes in the bedroom so she doesn’t trip over them in the dark. Doing the chores she asked you to do, that you “simply forgot.” It’s about putting your toiletries away because you leave them all over the bathroom bench. It’s about changing the toilet rolls after you use the toilet because you never change the toilet rolls, and still doing everyone’s laundry and cooking everyone’s meals, every single day!!! After 17 years of being a single parent to two Punks, clearly I am now living with a “Man Child!!”
She probably thought she was giving information. That’s how women speak to women.. It’s not an easy transition to speak different languages, but this too can be taught. I think the blog helped me learn how men hear women (and I’m speaking in general terms so please don’t be offended). Often women hear a comment or suggestion as a polite command that could get ugly if not addressed promptly. In my experience men tend to stick to factual, less emotional communication, like instructions. This is why it throws many women for a loop when a man communicates differently, with emotions. It magnifies the message and captures our attention because we as women communicate on that level. Don’t get me wrong, most women enjoy when a man behaves and talks like a man, just like most men enjoy when a women behaves and talks like a woman. The point I’m taking too long to make is sometimes a disconnect in communication can happen. It’s important for both sides to try hard to work through those times, to reconnect, to heal, to love.
Two thumbs up!
This will be unpopular.
I see your point, but it feels like emotional slavery to me. I’ve had all those arguments word for word with my wife, and while I don’t “know” as you say, I think it’d be more accurate to say I don’t want to know. To me it feels like any thing can become a reason to hold me accountable for her insecurities. What’s mind boggling to me is how one could feel so unloved or disrespected while having a partner who loves them. The constant need for validation and PROOF that you’re committed is exhausting and insane. Why does the onus fall on me to be the soul provider of relationship confidence. I just don’t get it… Maybe I never will, perhaps I’m doomed, but it doesn’t feel fair that one person can turn anything into “prove your love to me by the menial task I’ve decided to care about.” “She divorced me because I left socks out.” “She divorced me because I left the seat up.” “She divorced me because I didn’t color coordinate my underwear.” Any task can be an opportunity to prove my dedication, but is it wrong to desire to be with someone who is ok with getting 95% of the proof she needs from all the other things that I do to show support? Taking her side in fights with others? Putting her through college? Working a job she knows I FUCKING HATE so she can fulfill her dreams? Never giving her shit for essentially anything? Even the things that urk me in the moment? Realizing she loves me, but is a person with flaws? … No no, that 5%, that cup on the sink, that’s the deal breaker, that was the one example she’d been searching for to show that I don’t love her?
I’m ranting now… Good article friend, I just don’t drink that “prove it to me” kool-aid.
Hoped this was just my ex. If this is how the entire male gender is wired, I’m switching teams.
Regarding my posts on Feb. 1st. I’d like to say that it seems many people don’t have a sense of humor! As in stupid things that bug us can be looked at in a positive light. For me to ask for my husband to put the glass away…in a flirty way, is way better than nagging. It does not mean I withhold intimacy! You have to be kidding. It’s just flirting with my husband letting him know the glass, or whatever issue bothers me and I would appreciate him honoring that. I bring it to his attention to avoid the build up of all the little things that slowly can lead to resentment. It’s called COMMUNICATION.
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I think a lot of people missed the point of this. It wasn’t about the dish in the sink at all. I’ve been married for 26 years and in year 10 my husband and I went to a Marriage Matters seminar (his idea). We weren’t having major problems but we both were maybe not being as considerate of the other as we should’ve been. The upshot is that my husband started making the bed every morning because he knows it’s important to me and he’s last up which means I’m unable to do it first thing. Oh, there are mornings when it isn’t made, but it is most of the time and I can tell you that 16 years later, I still get a stupid smile on my face when I walk in the bedroom and see the bed has been made because I know he was thinking of me. It’s not a one way street. I do things for him that mean little to me because I know it’s important to him. It’s not about the cup. It’s about knowing our partner cares enough to make it a big deal…even when it isn’t to them.
Melody, thank you, wonderfully said. Continue on in your happy marriage! I hope the men out there can see that it’s not that hard! The little things like making the bed can make a huge difference. We don’t need to argue and debate why. Choosing to do those little things for your wife is choosing kindness and showing love…in her eyes. Isn’t that what husbands want their wives to feel?
Beautifully stated. One thing I see consistently in the statements is the idea that women’s requests are irrational with an implication (perhaps self edited, so apologies) that men don’t get their their requests look equally irrational to women.
My ex always wanted the car backed into the driveway so that in case of an emergency we could get out faster. I thought that was nuts. It was time consuming, hurt my neck to wrench around to do it, took precision to get the car into the garage, but I did it almost every single time I came home for nearly 20 years.
He HATED spiders and although we only had a couple wandering through, he insisted I put out new glue traps each month. So, again, off to Home Depot during errands and for 20 years – glue traps.
He hated lights on in rooms where no one was hanging out but I have a degree of blindness and keeping lights on prevented me from falling down stairs and crashing into walls. But, again, during our marriage I was sure to keep lights off and taught my kids to do it too.
He couldn’t STAND having the cupboards get sparse so I kept them stocked to the brim – running to the grocery in the snow if needed.
To me, all this stuff was insane but you do for your mate.
The difference, I think, is that some people will pick up on a suggestion and run with it while others need to be told thousands of times and still don’t get it. And you are running towards divorce at breakneck speed if you expect your requests are perfectly rational and expect them of your partner while you disregard all of their requests as silly. I don’t know that it’s a male/female thing though because my son tends to pick up when something bothers his wife and will avoid doing it or help her through it.
“But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.”
YES!!! These three sentences sum up the entire article for me. Great read!
I am divorced. In my marriage, I was the mother, which didn’t make me feel at all like a (sexy) partner. And breng my husband’s mother (head accountant, moral compass, list-maker) didn’t make him feel respected. I knew we needed to work on our marriage but we had four kids and e both worked full time. We’d get around to it someday. Then he met another woman. I tried to bring him back to us but it was too late. Now, five years after the divorce, the only points of communication are the very things we always argued about: “We need to pay for this or that activity for the kids,” “he/she should be allowed to do this or that” and, “you aren’t putting the kids first.” He’s now married to that other woman though I doubt he’s any happier. However hard marriage is, divorce (at least when children are involved) is so much harder. If only we’d shown each other love and respect.
I am fortunate to have a good relationship with my son and it’s taught me so much about the dynamics of male/female interaction.
If I’m at home while my husband is working, I’m essentially running and managing the household. Just as he wouldn’t expect me to go to his job and know what to do to help without being asked, I get why a husband would wait for the “honey do” list. This is especially true if he’s tried to jump in and help before and been told he’s doing it wrong, he’s in the way or that he screwed something up.
That being said, to me, it’s absolutely logical for a wife to expect anyone over 12 who’s living in the house, to pick up their mess, clean their own dish (apart from meals perhaps), throw out any trash they produce and so on – basically, clean up after yourself. I would even say – jump in and change the diaper, empty the trash and change the toilet paper roll when necessary, but this can become a whole power struggle.
But we can run into trouble when we expect men to read our minds. I see this with my son. His wife expects him to “guess” what’s wrong, what he screwed up, what she wants him to say. And there’s the game playing where she’ll ask for what she wants and he’ll begin to do it and then she says, “Well, now you’re just doing it because I asked. You should KNOW!”
It’s a whole education.
Apart from cleaning up after yourself (common courtesy), I don’t expect my partner to do something unless I ask directly. Then we can talk about it if they don’t want to help out with something.
I do believe that if you know something bothers your partner, and if they’ve told you numerous times, it’s important to “get” it however you can so you don’t lose the relationship. But there should be room for negotiation. There may be a reason they’re doing what they’re doing that’s just as valid.
Omg…me too!
Exactly. This is what my husband has yet to understand.
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This read should be required to get a marriage license!!! Great article
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Thank you!! Sending this to my ex husband, so he can keep the current wife.
Morale of the story is men need to conform to an endless unknowable laundry list of their wife’s idiosyncrasies or face the consequences. If a man was that critical of his wife for where she puts her dirtyish glass he’d be labeled controlling, maybe even abusive but women do it and when men don’t learn how to react we get dumped. I’m frustrated by the idiot husband characters we see in sitcoms and TV commercials. The slightly overweight well meaning but bumbling dad who can never get anything right and mom swoops in to save the day. Ugh this rant could go for days but I’m playing hot wheels with my son, its my night with him since my wife and I are separated. Yeah I’m maybe not the most objective person to comment on this post.
This 100x’s.
I think part of the problem is like you say, men are portrayed as incapable fools in most of the media we see. If not for the wife to come to save the day, us men would probably die from drinking bleach.
In a way, I can understand why some women react the way they do over many things. From the day they’re born they see men bumbling through life on tv, movies ect. I can’t but help think it’s ingrained in their heads that they have to take charge and they have to cleanup because we just can’t do it. You rarely see it the other way around.
I almost wonder if they feel the way they do naturally, or if they do because years of seeing what I mentioned has changed the way they would otherwise think.
I’ve seen a lot of the comments here, and it made think if this is the way it’s always been, if women have always been this sensitive to the smaller issues in life. Then it dawned on me that I’ve never heard a woman who is in their 70’s complain about their man not doing enough around the house. it’s anecdotal for sure, but it does make me wonder.
Before the “you don’t get it crowd” chimes in, I do understand this story is a metaphor. The comments have revolved around the smaller things though, so this is what I’m referencing.
I’ve also wondered since reading this story is where is the line drawn? Is a woman, or man for that matter always correct to expect a behavior just because they feel unappreciated? The story doesn’t indicate there is, unless I missed it.
This article expressed to me a clear cut TWO WAY STREET! Both husband and wife need to do those little things that their partners appreciate and refrain from those things that upset. That being said I don’t know any mind readers. we need to express to our partners those things we appreciate as well as those things that bother us, as well as showing that appreciation when our partners follow through with our expectations of them. Doing for others makes them feel appreciated and gratitude from others makes us feel appreciated for doing for others. Bottom line willingly do for your spouse and show appreciation when your spouse does for you!
I wish my wife would pick her underwear up off the bathroom floor after she takes a shower….I really love her so I gladly pick them up and put them in the hamper. It’s the least I can do since I don’t even know how to operate the washing machine!!
I like how you take responsibility for where your head is at due to your separation and I’m sorry for your pain. It sounds like it’s an awful time for you.
What I see in relationships is that often one person sees what bothers their partner and automatically adjusts course. It’s not always the woman. This person sees a funny look on their partners face when he eats something she made so she doesn’t make that dish anymore. He sees that she feels discouraged when the sink is full of dishes so he stays on top of it. She notices he hates bringing in the mail at the end of the day so she bundles up to go get it. Because they rarely draw attention to all they’re doing, their partner often doesn’t even notice at all. They think their partner just naturally prefers to do things that way. When really, that dinner you hate is her absolute favorite and he’s exhausted after working all day yet still manages to put any dishes he uses in the dishwasher. And she hates trudging to the end of a 1/2 mile driveway to get the mail. But nothing is said, so the sacrifices go unnoticed.
The other person in a relationship that’s not working doesn’t pick up on those clues. He throws his coat on the chair when he gets home every single night and she keeps asking him not to do that because then the cat lays on it and she has to take his coat to the dry cleaner every week because he complains about the hair all over it. She doesn’t rinse out her dishes and stuff gets dried on so he has to chip it off or soak it for hours before loading it in the dishwasher and he’s asked him dozens of times to please rinse and she still won’t do it. And to the one making the mess, it feels like s/he’s being nagged to death when really, s/he is just oblivious to all the work they’re making for their partner.
But the bottom line is that when one partner demonstrates compassion and the other contempt, it’s not going to work out.
I am a woman and I agree with you that men in sitcoms are portrayed in ridiculous ways, and that should change. I agree with you that it’s a two-way street. Women and men both have something to learn from the article, myself included. Sadly, my partner is not interested in reading anything that I offer about relationships, going to a couples’ retreat, or couples counselling. If you have any insight on that frequent phenomenom, I am all ears.
What I didn’t realize until it was too late was that unless it directly impacted my ex husband, it made no difference whatsoever to him. Even if the kids or I mentioned something numerous times, were upset to the point of tears, begged him to please change something, he was oblivious to it. If I wanted his help with something, I had to find a way to make it his problem which is no way to run a marriage.
He was one of those people who snores very, very loud and it woke everyone up five or six times a night. I asked him to please get help for it for over a decade. When I told him he’d need to move to another floor of the house to sleep, within two weeks he’d gone to the doctor and gotten help for it so he didn’t snore anymore. I realized then that he cared very little about the feelings of anyone else. It was devastating to see how little he cared.
How do you tell this to a current husband so that he stays your current husband? My husband would take this as scrutiny and start a fight.
I too would like to know the answer to that, Michele!
So would I.. debating whether or not to send it to him…
Diplomacy, the art of letting others get your way. Make him think it was his idea
I would also like to know how to do that. My finger is itching to hit the email tab. But I won’t. I am 65; married 45 years. It took about ten years before the little pieces of my heart breaking off to make me begin to feel the hole they left. Every hurtful word, every mess, every gift giving occasion where he couldn’t be bothered, every time I alone got up to take care of one of the babies, there went another piece of my heart. And I learned that I had no backup. I learned that I am not, nor ever have been, the center of his world. He is the center of his world. And I tried. I thought if I just worked harder I could set a good example of what family should be. If I were a loving wife, he would be a loving husband. Didn’t work. So sad. Matt explained it perfectly. It’s not about any one thing. It’s so many little hurts over a long period of time. Until there is no heart left .
This article and your words resonate so deeply with me. Although I can not compare to your 65 years, I have been with my love for 7 years and finally got the courage to pack up my stuff this weekend. Like you said, he is the center of his world and no matter how hard I tried and fought to keep us together, every little thing kept breaking a piece of my heart.
You sound just like my mum, married to a man for 50 years who can’t love anyone but himself. I never understood why she never left, I can only be there for her when she needs me. I wish I could put the pieces of her heart back together and fill it with happiness 🙁
Yep, this is my story also. It was never about the ‘thing/glass’, it was about the lack of respect over such a little thing. And that lack of respect showed with other little things. His clothes on floor within inches of the hamper, his snoring, his 24/7 television addiction, his porn addiction, his lack of any kind of affection, his lack of attention to the kids. His LACK of anything and everything that wasn’t important to HIM. He could remember his Saturday morning tee-time a month in advance but couldn’t take out the kitchen trash on a daily basis. Men in general seem to want to harp on the lack of respect their wives show them – but it’s a two way street. Women want respect also.
Different men are different. Some are narcissistic jerks, some are decent – if clueless, a rare few are more thoughtful. Women vary the same way. Many people, men and women alike, marry a bad spouse, and judging by the comments on here think that all other men or women are just as bad. Not true. I hope all the women who resonate with Michele’s question have men who do really care about you.
One thing to try, if he’s clueless, is to pay attention to what he really responds well to – that is, what seems to make him feel like he’s king of the world. Then practice doing that every day for a time: a week or month or so. It may open him up to paying attention to what you have to say. I’m not saying it will work, but it’s worth a try.
I try to do that with my wife, not that I’m perfect at it. She doesn’t always reciprocate in a way that I would hope, but I see the things she does for me and understand that she does those things because she loves me – not that it’s the thing that really makes me feel warm and fuzzy. I just have to be satisfied with that. But she’s particularly open for looking out for me when I truly need something important. It’s just a matter of building trust in a relationship.
Trying to reply to jimpemberton….thank you for the male point of view and insight. In the ancient Chinese folk tale, it’s all the things we must do in order to gain enough trust from the tiger that it lets us take three of its hairs. It turns out that all the things we do to gain the tiger’s trust are the expressions of love we should be offering to our partner. Sometimes it might work, at least for awhile. Yes, it’s worth an experiment!
I just sent this to my husband. We had a major blow up over dishes this morning. It’s not even 1 glass in our household, it’s all the dishes. With 3 kids (2 of which are infants) and full time jobs its very stressful. But this is the SAME FIGHT we’ve been having for 15 years. Literally, I’ve screamed about the dirty dishes for 15 years.
I just can’t anymore. It shows he doesn’t value my time. If I have to come home from work and do all the dishes (his chore) and then cook dinner (my chore) then I might as well be a single mom.
Perhaps, if you come home and he hasn’t done his chore (the dishes), you could leave and buy yourself and the kids dinner, leaving him to figure something for dinner out for himself. I would struggle with this because I have a plan, a menu, and I would want to stick with it. However, he will continue to leave the dishes for you because, perhaps, you continue to clean them up and then make dinner as usual?
I wonder if people like you ever think about what YOU’RE doing that disrespects him? This whole article is premised on the man not being able to read his wife’s mind, which is what women apparently want. Do you ever look at what your husband DOES do for you, things that you’re not noticing because they’re not as important to you as putting away a glass? I think we all have that perfect behavior in our minds and they become foolishly offended when he/she doesn’t respond as we want. Meanwhile, he/she is doing so many other things that we don’t notice because we’re fixated on “the dish”.
There’s two people in the relationship. This article has holes big enough to drive a truck through.
A sport truck, maybe! But probably not a huge rig with a lift kit and off-road tires, or anything.
It isn’t mind reading that’s expected, or wanted, if you’ve mentioned it thousands of times. That’s the difference and that’s what Matt is talking about. Reading someone’s mind or knowing what they want before saying it is even brought up here.
That’s a legitimate complaint and different from what he was saying.
The original post didn’t say what his share of chores or hers were, which would make a big difference in how I viewed this.
Maybe you try alternating chores. I hate doing dishes, I don’t care too much for cooking either. If I had the same chore for 15 years I definitely wouldn’t want to do it and would procrastinate as much as possible. Changing things makes life feel less monotonous and emotionally draining. Regardless we need to share our relationship responsibilities
I told my husband that it really bothered me that he had promised to fix things up around the house and care for the lawn but didn’t do it. The little stuff drives me nuts but I can tolerate it (like new paint or something) but then there’s stuff that will really cause serious damage like water leaks).
I gave him several options – 1) Take care of it himself by a reasonable date we’d choose together. 2) Work together on taking care of it – but we had to choose a date and stick to it. 3) I could call and hire someone to come do it. or 4) I’d call my father to come do it (he’s offered).
That worked for a time, but he said it made him feel like a child. I just wasn’t sure what else to do.
The best advice I can give someone is that, unless they have an awakening like Matt, you’re probably in for more of the same. There are people in the world who won’t notice a thing unless it directly impacts them and being married to those people is just hell.
Hello, Thankyou for writing such an incredible piece that both helped my understanding and gave me something that my husband can read as it explains everything I have been trying to say for a long time but always ends in arguing and frustrations! I wonder if I could ask your permission to print it and give to my nephew who is due to be married late spring as I think it would be the best wedding gift? Thankyou x
I think what’s lost is that just as the wife could not stop being hurt about the glass (because it’s not about the glass to her), the husband could not have truly heard and understood the issue. I’m sure neither were able to talk out their emotions about the situation constructively (which is a hard thing to do when going on the defensive is natural).
The wife is saying this issue is important to her, he needs to respect that even if he doesn’t understand it. That’s absolutely true because there’s a limit on how much you can understand another’s hangups and its greater implications.
However, on the other side, the guy’s thought monologue shows why he couldn’t understand the issue. It’s because he felt unappreciated in other aspects of his contribution. It’s a common thing to only point out mistakes and the things that bother you, but it’s important to appreciate your partner.
In terms of emotional communication, both sides clearly didn’t get through to each other. They were talking past each other. On one side, the wife is feeling disrespected and under appreciated because she has an issue and she keeps having to spell it out which makes her feel like she’s parenting (ruining the relationship dynamic). On the other, the husband is feeling as if this issue’s emphasis devalues the rest of his contribution and he is feeling attacked for his behavior pattern.
He is expected to figure things out for himself but he still has to do it the way the wife wants. She is expected to let the issue slide because of everything else he has done that’s right. BOTH of those are misguided expectations. If they had a healthy emotional communication about this (again, easy to say but hard to do), then he would have respected that it was important to her and considered her feelings over his own logic of the situation. She, on the other hand, would have shown appreciation for all the other things he does well so that it wouldn’t have seemed like only the bad things get attention.
That dynamic could flip in other situations. The important things are –
1) You don’t need to understand why your other has an issue, you just need to know they have strong feelings about it.
2) You have to give as much as you take in a relationship. You shouldn’t just ask someone to change the things you think are wrong but not show appreciation for the things you think are right. (Applies to both sides)
The latter is not parenting, it’s emotional communication. Having an issue with someone’s behavior sends negative emotions to them. Appreciating them sends positive ones. If you haven’t given enough re-affirming emotions then a critical one sets the overall tone of the communication.
This article is very good overall because it shows that both sides are thinking two completely different things. But it’s important to realize that the husband’s hangup of not changing probably has just as much as emotional importance (in what it implies) as the wife’s hang up of not getting over it. Neither are something that you could logically change because it’s about the feelings behind it.
Excellent insight and analysis…helpful. Thanks.
And now my question for any guy reading this: Is there any way to inspire a male partner/spouse to go to counselling, and eventually to couple’s counselling, when the relationship and communication have become so bad and the cyclical patterns so enduring for so many years that it’s obvious they’re not going to change or improve anything in a meaningful way on their own?
Insight from the male point of view would truly be appreciated.
Opinion… Most men feel counseling is useless as a bag of rocks.
Maybe try starting a conversation in which you allow him to express his views and feelings without invalidating them but trying rather to just understand (even if you feel your values seem to be under attack), and afterward you ask the same of him. If he cares he “should” logically see this as an opportunity to re-acquire some common ground between you. Almost guaranteed you both will get stuck in your conversation, unable to fully understand the others views. Do everything you can to keep the tone of this conversation respectful and wait till the conversation gets stuck. At this point you could suggest “maybe we’ve made as much progress as we can on our own. Maybe at this point counseling can offer us a mediator to help us understand what we are really looking for from each other.” Don’t push the counselor, gently suggest while still exploring other ways to improve cooperation and communication.
Thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughtful reply, Mark!
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I, too, felt the “Sexist” post was…well, unusually clumsy, I’ll just say…for Matt. I’m willing to chalk it up to it having been what appears to be a rather overwhelming last couple of weeks for the guy, as well as the fact that (if you read, say, his 2014 post about ageism and dating) his “genius” can be marred by the occasional all-too-human blindspot. His arrow finds the target more often than not, I’m finding, so I’m quick to forgive him the rare stumble in his thought process, but I really hope the rocky foundation of the “Sexist” post proves to be an isolated incident as Matt continues to find his sea legs with an instantly and astronomically increased readership. I feel confident he’ll find your insights on his current inability to manifest his learnings from his problematic marriage in his conversations with problematic blog followers enlightening.
You’re single aren’t you
I keep seeing so many comments along the lines of “Sure, maybe the husband this, and maybe the husband that, but what about when the wife doesn’t this, or doesn’t that?” But this article isn’t about the wife’s actions. It’s not about the (perhaps to some degree stereotypical, but no lesser in validity for it) female perspective. It’s a man writing to other men about the male mindset and how it can have a corrosive effect on our spouses if left unchecked and unmitigated by concession to needs and desires we oftentimes find alien, but which anchor the person we should consider most central to our lives. I don’t care what the female part of this equation is. My wife owns her own part independently of what I owe her. Let her read the wisdom of some female analogue to Matt and learn about what she can do to cater to my male needs. She owns that part. What Matt is offering is a male-centric primer on the things we as husbands can do to own our part of the marriage. We can sit around all day long and vent about why our wives don’t understand this or won’t recognize that, but you know what, fellas? WE DON’T AND CAN’T CONTROL OUR WIVES’ HALF OF THE MARRIAGE. Matt’s sole focus is, you want to better affect what you as a husband can affect? Here’s how. Your wife will either be inspired by your actions of improvement to respond in kind (assuming corrective behavior on her part is justified) or she won’t. She’ll either take on the “unfair” burden of bending to your psychology because you took on the “unfair” burden of bending to hers or she won’t. Let your wives own what they own in this process and you tend to your own half of the marital pie. Or don’t. And watch her walk out that door forever. May your sense of moral righteousness keep you warmer at night than she did.
Thank you for this. Enough people call you a stupid idiot, and you start asking yourself: “Ummm. Am I wrong about this? Am I a stupid idiot?”
I don’t think that I am, but when it seems like 97 percent of male readers take that position, doubt inevitably creeps in.
I don’t think I’m a stupid idiot. I think I’ve got a pretty solid handle on common husband behaviors that lead to divorce, and want to believe that these husbands DON’T WANT to get divorced.
Which is why I wish they’d believe truth when it’s presented to them.
Thank you for doing as nice of a job as I’ve seen of summarizing everything I’m trying to do here.
Of course wives can probably do more to improve their marriages. I’ll let wives worry about that.
Even if men don’t want to have great marriages for the “right” reasons (which I perceive to be keeping promises and marriage vows and being good men), I can’t believe they wouldn’t want to have good marriages for selfish reasons–their wives respecting and admiring and bragging about them, their children at home, not writing alimony and child-support checks, having lots of help around the house performing life tasks, etc.
This idea that something can upset your spouse even when you don’t understand it, so just love her and care about her enough to respect her on it is a marriage game-changer.
And a million men dismissed it, called me a name, and sprinted faster toward divorce.
Sad.
Thank you very much for not being one of them.
I think that’s absolutely true about what you can and can’t change. You have to respect the feelings being presented to you when conflict arises, even if you can’t relate to those feelings.
My only issue with the conclusion is that you may end up ignoring your own feelings to serve your partner’s. That’s unhealthy and unsustainable. You shouldn’t try to control your partner, but you also have to work with them to find a good balance.
If the marriage is held hostage in your mind and you stifle your own emotions to keep your partner, you’re going to create much larger issues down the line.
What Matt says is extremely important in that you should take a step back and realize your wife’s feelings are her own and that’s what you need to respect. It’s equally important to understand your own feelings (usually hard for a lot of guys) and why you feel conflicted about changing.
In most cases, there’s usually an issue on both sides. It’s not about morals or logic either. Work on it together or on your own. But with the latter, if it’s not reciprocated then you’ll build expectations that even if you stifle will likely build up. Relationships need a balance.
But as so many comments here show, if the guy stays on the defensive and just tries to rationalize their actions, instead of understanding their own emotions behind it, then nothing will get resolved.
It works both ways both of you should do silly things for each other , it shows that you care about each other !
You are spot on. I’ve been reading your blog in all my free time the past few days. I’ve sent some links to my hubby who read some of it and, I think, gets it. He has shared it with friends at work. I think you are accurate and it is refreshing to find someone who has owned up to their mistakes and is honest about the ugliness of divorce.
True. It’s not possible to control our spouse, and it’s sabotaging to blame and finger-point our spouse, and true change starts with having genuine compassion for his/her struggles.
But… “I don’t care what the female part of this equation is. My wife owns her own part independently of what I owe her.” Sounds like idealistic advice for two independent people happily living parallel lives. In the practical world, too many couples have interdependent emotional needs that are too strong, overcoming all logic and willpower to the contrary. I’ve seen it over and over, and they stay unhappy holding onto to expectations from the other. It’s human to be like that. Unilaterally letting go of such deep expectations requires serious Zen meditation or psychotherapy or mindfulness or whatnot.
It depends how deep the problem is. If it’s literally just a small issue for him, I think the statement applies just fine.
Its game theory…marriage is game theory, all the time, forever. No breaks, no timeouts, no endgame. As many women as men are horrible at it….
Thank you for such an intelligent response
This post contradicts your last
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I sent this article to my boyfriend last week that someone had posted on FB. Was so excited to get some answers to what I have been experiencing for almost 4 years (thinking I was crazy, but deep down thinking that there was something really big to learn here and he is who I am suppose to be with!). Anyway, he read it and agreed with me…..all good except all of this goes out the window when the real situation arises…. which it did last night on our 4 year anniversary night. My expectations, which have been basically zero, as I have been trying to figure out what I can learn from this relationship (we broke up a couple of months ago, but have been sort of casually dating again), so taking it one day at a time… back to the expectations… I had a few (mistake, i know) last night. Of course, he did nothing extra to make me feel special except to “unintentionally” compare me to one of my mother’s negative aspects as we were walking into the restaurant! I asked him to take it back and or please say something nice to me, but he followed right along with the article and dismissed me and then later getting mad at me for being ridiculous and saying it was unfair. I immediately recalled almost the entire article and realized we were living it verbatim.
This morning in an email I cut and pasted from your article almost the exact words he used last night as we were disagreeing. He wrote back hours later to say he was wrong (shock, this has only happened 2 times and both in the past month), and he was sorry to have hurt me and not done something sweet to make me feel special. This gives me hope and I thank you very very very much for writing these articles. I am so sorry of what you had to go thru to “get it”. I agree with one of your comments… I love you and whoever you find yourself with is going to be a lucky woman!! I feel like I have put myself thru a ton of grief hanging on in hopes that my BF eventually “gets it”. (Did I mention that I really never had a boyfriend until I was 49 and I knew when I met him that he was the guy I needed to be with…. if only I had known how much learning was ahead of me). I am at the end of my rope here, so praying that your blog will help give him insight into what is involved in a loving relationship and that each of us needs to be the priority for each other!!
I look forward to continuing to read your posts.
If your boyfriend is treating you that crappy …please RUN. That stuff does NOT get better. I listen to The Mark Gungor Show and he just talked about this very thing in a recent podcast. Dating is the time where you’re supposed to be friends and like each other and be your BEST. His best sounds, well, shitty!
Matt… we all do it, im a woman and i do it. You are very insightful and you are helping people look deep down inside. Mutual respect and love are worked at.. every moment of every day. Thank you, you have made a difference here. 🙂
Lisa
You have the biggest cheeks I’ve ever seen. Have you measured them? They’re flippin’ crazy huge! I wonder what your face looks like from the side.
His neck is really wide, too. Probably to accommodate the weight of his big cheeks.
You know what they say about guys with big cheeks.
They end up divorced?
Nailed it.
Thanks. You probably use a lot of shaving cream.
I want to put things in his nostrils. They’re like two black holes.
he’s probably one of those short wide people
Like big old pillows stuck to your face!
Thank you for expressing this perfectly. It brought me to tears. I could never have been able to put so perfectly on paper. Thank you.
Kinda like when you do all of the chores and she just laze around watching TV and yelling at you for a bit of dust you didn’t get to yet. Relationship abuse sucks and it’s worse when you love her but she cheats on you and is constantly expecting you to fail. Guess what. You get what you want bitch. F*ck you!
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http://wabisabitherapist.com/look-deeper-divorce-isnt-about-dirty-dishes/
http://www.sunnyskyz.com/blog/610/I-Wasn-t-Treating-My-Husband-Fairly-And-It-Wasn-t-Fair
Now, this had a lot of good perspective. Thank you, that’s a gem.
There you go! Find a thing that makes you feel better and latch onto it. If it’s always someone else’s fault, and never yours, then you never have to grow and change.
Phew! Close one, man.
I’m a woman, you idiot, that IS accepting some share of the fault. Think before you respond. I didn’t put down your post, just appreciated another one. So don’t be such a dick.
Yeah, I have a real problem not being one of those sometimes. Please don’t think it goes unpunished.
Sorry for the mix-up.
That article has been posted in these comments 17 million times, and in every instance, I can only presume, someone is suggesting it’s a counter-argument to what I’ve written here.
And as accepting responsibility for where we find ourselves in life is really important, I’m tired of all these apologists dismissing something I believe to be the No. 1 cause of divorce in the entire world (NOT dishes — the inability to understand one another and communicate effectively), I don’t like all of the men who latched onto it as vindication that they didn’t have to care about how their actions affect their wives or girlfriends.
It’s as if one introspective and self-aware wife writing about personal growth and how she worked to improve her relationship should alleviate husbands everywhere of all responsibility RE: marital spats where two sides aren’t understanding one another no matter how much they try to explain it.
Anyway. Yes. I’m an idiot. An idiot who behaves thoughtlessly and sometimes acts like a dick.
I think you’ll find that’s the theme of this entire blog, why my marriage ended, and why I believe so many other marriages are ending (because lots of guys act like me).
Sometimes, telling a simple story another person recognizes from their own life can change things. For the better.
And then afterward, maybe we’re less idiotic. Less of a thoughtless dickhead.
That’s the point of all of this.
I’m sorry for my response. No doubt, it was thoughtless and out of line.
Sometimes I make bad decisions. But maybe someday I won’t.
I see this article as completely different. It is one thing to never be able to do things correct and that is a problem but I can say for sure that not walking on clean floors with dirty shoes, putting up your dishes, putting your clothes in the hamper ect does not leave much room for error and says “I respect that you are trying to make our house nice so I will clean up after myself”. Both articles are correct.
If putting a dish in the dishwasher meant saving my marriage, I would have with a smile on my face and thank you honey for putting your dish in the sink for me.
Articles and blogs like this annoy me. Far too many people focus on the negative aspects of their partners. Everyone has their “dish by the sink” and focus on it, letting it ferment into something bigger than it really is. Suddenly the “dish by the sink” is a show of how little you respected her or how little you considered her feelings. That’s bullshit. Why let that be the sticking point and end a marriage. Why not focus on the things partners do everyday, selflessly, to keep a marriage and household working. My husband works a job that he loathes. It’s long hours and a ton of responsibility and stress. He does this so I may stay home and raise our five children. He does this because he loves me and respects my choice to forego a career to raise a family. He wasn’t given much of a choice – he had to step up and be the breadwinner of a family of seven. That “dish in the sink” seems much less important, doesn’t it? Whose sacrifice is more profound? Mine because I had to deal with a small annoyance? Or his because he works at a job and in a career he feels is fundamentally wrong for him? I choose to focus on the ways he does show love and respect me and choose to let go of the ways that he may not be the most considerate.
Besides, love, marriage, and the sacrifice each partner gives is not a contest. Stop blaming each other, and more importantly, blaming ourselves to get pity, and just work on it. Short of beating me and/or the kids, putting our family in financial ruin due to addictions and refusing to get help, or fucking around with other people, divorce is not an option for me. If he fails to show me the respect I think I deserve – whether I really deserve it or not, as respect should be earned and not a right – I focus on what he is doing right and find myself much more thankful and loving toward him and grateful that O chose him.
I love this comment. I have been married a long time. We have a lot of dirty dishes by our sink, made by all family members. We take turns doing them. Dishes aside, we’ve had a lot to overcome as a family. We nearly lost our son to cancer. We’ve had 3 of our parents live with us, 2 of them when they were dying. We’ve had a house fire. I could go on and on. I don’t mean to put down a woman who gets upset about dishes or thinks she’s being disrespected. And I don’t disagree with the article, as it addresses MOST marriages. It’s just very difficult for me to look at it this way. But I am grateful that I have a perspective that allows me to look my tired husband in the eye at night when he gets home from a 14 hour shift, tell him I love him like the day we got married and then go to bed with the dishes still by the sink, because we’re exhausted and there are bigger things to worry about. We’ll get to the dishes.
This article applies directly to you… You don’t see it cause on the surface everything seems honky dory but I see your marriage rotting out behind the pristine painted surface. If he really loathes this job you should be helping him into a career where he is not only the bread winner but not unhappy with his employer. No job is worth sacrificing quality time with family. I missed all the best things in all my children’s first years, First words, first rollover first crawl, first laugh, first step, first smile…. I could keep going and I regret all of it. I don’t care how many kids you have could be 23 doesn’t matter, you should be out ther winning some bread too so he could miss less of the best years with his kids!
That’s a rather large leap you’re taking about her marriage, as well as it being flawed.
If she works, then both parents are gone and the kids are still missing time with them. He could also be missing time with her when he is home depending on what kind of job she would have.
Maybe the husband feels it’s best for the kids to have their mom home rather than being watched by someone else.
Further, I don’t know if you’ve ever paid for child care, but it’s not cheap.
Ha, so interesting how people are having the same problems everywhere. They look different on the outside but they all boil down to the same.
I had similar problems with my partner once – he’d give our food bowls to the dog in the yard where I’d find them trampled into the dirt the next day when I wanted to make food. I asked him if he could stop doing this because it was stressing me out. At first he agreed but somehow it turned into an argument that ended with him basically saying “f*** you, I’ll do whatever I want.” That hurt… But we’re learning how to work out relationship issues so I went to focus on myself instead of trying to get a solution from him.
With journalling and introspection I figured exactly what you said: I felt hurt and disrespected by his actions. I hadn’t been aware of it that clearly before! Before it was just a vague feeling of “I don’t want him to do that, it upsets me”. Once I figured that I felt disrespected, I managed to disconnect from the feeling. I managed to understand that for him it just wasn’t a big deal and didn’t have anything to do with me or his feelings for me. We didn’t have a problem with bowls in the yard again 🙂 Partly because he mostly stopped feeding the dog from them despite what he had said earlier and partly because I didn’t get upset when he did because I didn’t connect his actions to me anymore.
Men are from Mars, women from Venus…
I think that you’re fundamentally right that these ‘little’ incidents build up over time and can destroy relationships. I’m not sure I’m with you on the solution, though.
There are things my wife of 10 years does that drive me absolutely insane, and vice versa. Things that make each of us feel undervalued and unappreciated. If we address one, another will crop up. You know why? Because it’s not about the dirty cup, or the empty fuel tank, or the hair in the sink. It’s not about the other person’s actions at all. It’s about how the injured partner feels. And if we’re not addressing the underlying issues that are leading to the feelings, it’s not going to end.
I don’t think women are these mysterious creatures with illogical requirements like dishes in dishwashers; I think they’re people who find specific channels for subconscious emotions. As are men. Lets stop this Mars/Venus crap. I’m pretty sure same sex couples, and hell, platonic flatmates have all these same issues. It’s hard to share space with people on a long term basis. And marriage, hopefully, is really long.
When my wife does something that irrationally drives me crazy, I (mostly) don’t ask her to change. I try to own that reaction, and work out why I’m having it. I know that she’s not intentionally disrespecting me; I’m interpreting something as disrespectful. I’m *choosing* to view it as disrespectful. Maybe I should stop that.
For something to be a marriage-breaker, both partners have to be in on it. One has to decide (or through lack of attention, have it decided) that it’s not worth doing a small thing to save the marriage; and the other partner has to decide that the small thing is worth getting mad over, to the point of the marriage ending. We need to work on both sides.
As for the mothering aspect: in most situations I’ve seen, it’s because the couple’s priorities don’t align, so one feels the need to push hard for what they think is important. Rather than working on a shared set of goals, one partner, male or female, will essentially badger the other until they give in and ‘behave’. Much like parents do to children. That’s a crappy thing to do. Rather than requiring your partner to conform to your vision, perhaps you should build a shared vision? And if what you want out of life is really so different, maybe you *should* separate, rather than spending the rest of your lives making each other miserable.
This all sounds, I’m sure, like a great excuse for slacker husbands to not be cognisant of their wives’ needs. It’s not. I certainly try to do the little things that make my wife feel appreciated, although of course I often fail. I think it’s fair to say that the same is true for my wife. But these are band-aids. Band-aids are great: they help give the underlying wound time to heal. You should definitely use them! But if you’re not doing something about the wound itself, you’re going to spend your life changing dirty band-aids. And that sucks.
This is a smart, well-reasoned comment. I agree with every word (except for the Mars/Venus crap which I believe strongly bears out in clinical studies and psychologist’s notes during therapy).
I was, ironically, thinking about that very thing a few minutes before reading this.
Of course you’re right. We ARE responsible for our emotional wellbeing. We are more responsible than anyone for how we feel at any given moment. We give people the power (or remove that power) the right or ability to affect us emotionally.
As a premise, I totally agree.
But as an exercise in a real-life marriage? As a matter of pragmatism and practicality? An oblivious husband actively practicing empathy and selflessness is a pretty good start. Putting a dish in the dishwasher is totally easier than mastering human emotion.
So. Yes. I’m with you 100 percent. We absolutely NEED to have a conversation about emotional health. About being responsible for yourself. Establishing and enforcing boundaries. And applying reason and wisdom, even empathy and forgiveness to the art of determining whether our spouses or partners have actually wronged us somehow.
But, Phase 1?
Getting two smart adults who married purposefully from kind of hating each other and divorcing 5-10 years later over the same things everyone else. So wasteful.
So. Teach and practice empathy. Wives (in this specific scenario) feel respected and loved, and not pissed off and unwanted.
And once there’s emotional balance and peace, we can ask sad and angry people to get their shit together. 🙂
This was an awesome, thoughtful and wise comment. I appreciate it immensely.
Perfect
Absolutely love it! Thank you for putting it into perspective! Thought it was just me who felt that way sometimes! ?
What I find equal parts heartbreaking and infuriating is how these people (I believe it happens to both men and women) will desperately try to save their marriage after it’s over. They ask, “What can I do to save my marriage?” when their partner has been telling them for decades and they’ve not listened. If you can’t hear him/her the first time, please at least hear it the 100th time. They’re not trying to “win” – they’re trying to save the marriage.
At the end of my marriage, I was so terribly upset. I finally told my husband, “You win. Let’s get divorced” because it felt like he made every single thing into a battle. He’d tell me what bothered him and I’d try to accommodate. I told him what bothered me and he took it as a challenge. So, he won – and we’re both heartbroken. I just don’t get how that’s a “win” for anyone.
Nothing is over for anyone before they are dead! Time heals all wounds. You gave up plain and simple, and maybe that was the right choice for you. Maybe you two are just too different and ultimately no matter how much you tried there just wouldn’t have been enough common ground. In any case this ended when you gave up and those that give up don’t win. Besides that the only thing there is to win in relationships is a little battle we refer to as “the test of time”
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Why does she give a shit? It’s a fucking glass and she actually shouldn’t care this much. Pull the stick out of your arse, woman and do something fun with your husband. Me and my husband do chores at our own pace. We don’t guilt each other or set importance in mundane things. Everything gets done, but we don’t give each other shit about it. Simple. He’s better off without her pernickity arse.
halogirl… Please marry me….
I agree with everything in this comment except that you failed to mention she’s probably better off without him, too. He’s pathetic.
You all need to get your heads out of your own behinds. Love holds no record of right or wrong, human nature does. If you truly love someone you can see past their faults and not focus on them. Remembering this over the course of a lifetime is the hardest part because things that annoy will almost always continue to annoy. Maybe you all need to write out a list of loves and hates to see if your relationship is worth working on. Do you have enough things to love about your partner that you can overcome these feelings of annoyance or does your pet peeve out way your love? Stop complaining about others and start looking at yourself. Self criticism is the most difficult thing anyone can ever do successfully. Nobody wants to admit that they are wrong ever, but most of us are terrible partners and self reflection is the only way you’ll ever get better at being a good one
Thank you.
I think wives have an awful time trying to explain this, or when its actually explained, it’s overdone, super complicated, and takes forever to understand. I know women have some strange secret way of communicating so in that knowledge I try to explain myself in various ways, different analogies, etc. You have eloquently simplified and explained it completely.
Matt – Thanks for being so real and vulnerable about the stuff that everyone goes through but no one talks about. Super refreshing!
Not suggesting there’s a simple fix to saving a marriage but I’m a believer that we get in our own way of happiness and often times it starts with just a single negative thought.
We tend to believe that when we think something it must be truth because we thought it. Not so. Consider the quote by Frances Vaughn: “We have thoughts, feelings, and emotions, but we are not our thoughts, feelings, or emotions.” If we allow negative thoughts to persist unchecked we slowly tumble down a rabbit whole where all of the sudden we have created a sad reality for ourselves that didn’t have to be. Becoming aware of our human-ness and using the rational part of our brain to counteract the instinctual part can go a long way in stopping the vicious circle and allowing us to consciously choose how to act.
It seems Matt’s story was at least partially the result of negative thoughts and interpretations that went unchecked. Interpretations run our lives… everything we do involves perceiving something, computing it in our brains, and making an interpretation about what it means. These are the stories we make up about things and since no two humans are alike, no one will make the same interpretation even when faced with the same scenario. Our interpretations (or stories) are responsible for so much of our thoughts, feelings, and actions that as the saying goes “we create our reality”. Seems obvious that everyone thinks and perceives differently but people forget this in practice… especially in relationships when people consider themselves one unit or team.
Matt’s story was that leaving dirty dishes out was meaningless, but his wife’s story was that it meant he didn’t respect her. Once her warning flags went up, her brain continued to look for evidence to support her new belief. For Matt, he forgot to consider the above – that we are all different. He would never be bothered by dirty dishes, so he was right, she was wrong. He disregarded her feelings and was a bit resentful that she was being so silly. In essence, she created her reality out of a story that wasn’t the truth, she expected him to just “get it” and didn’t communicate, and he let her continue to live in her story until it become reality for both of them in the form of some serious relationship concerns and eventually divorce.
Imagine how powerful it would have been if she were aware that she may be getting triggered by an interpretation and asked him about it. “So you left dirty dishes out and I have to admit that it’s really pissing me off because the story that I’m telling myself is that by doing so you have no respect for me anymore. Is that true?” She’s communicating, taking responsibility for her story, and not blaming him. And from Matt’s side, if he had stopped only thinking about how he would handle the situation (because it doesn’t matter) and showed some empathy by acknowledging and validating. Acknowledging or restating what she said so she feels heard and then validating her feelings. Validating doesn’t mean you agree with the other person, it’s just understanding why they feel the way they do based on the reality they are living in. Finally, if he had explained that it was just the story she was telling herself because leaving a cup out means he wants to reuse it later or that he’s lazy, nothing to do with his respect for her.
This way of being and communicating may seem “fake”, especially when you first use it after years of dysfunction but once you start making it a habit it becomes second nature. Some couples are truly better off separate but let that be a decision that is made consciously, not based off of misinterpretations and miscommunications.
I think she left you because you are boring.
Thanks, Tim!
Don’t listen to them Matt, if you were boring it would be better than being a hateful troll that takes the time out of their day to insult people they don’t know. I would much rather be “boring”
I think a lot of people read this and think the same thing, Timmy!
Thanks Michelle!
Don’t own it…fix it!
This article hurts! It punches me in the gut! We’ve all been there. I guess the most important part is finding someone who can deal with the things you can’t change and change the things you can. Does that make sense? I guess that’s where I’m at.
great article!
I took something completely different from this article, and it makes me sad that this woman chose to dissolve her marriage over something so seemingly unimportant. It’s important to remember with opinion pieces such as these that there are three sides to every story: theirs, yours, and what actually happened. That being said, and pertaining to the view point expressed in this article, I’ll add my take.
Everyone has petty grievances in relationships and this article reminded just how important it is not to fixate on the small stuff.
My husband leaves cups out, he leaves the toilet seat up, despite the fact that I have butter fingers and the cat might fly in (yeah, it’s a big possibility lol). He gets toothpaste all over the hand towel, leaves stuff on, he’s a big guy and he breaks things accidentally. He just generally makes basic human errors. He doesn’t do these things because he doesn’t value or respect me. He just bumbles. A lot. He’s a bit absent-minded when it comes to seemingly mundane things.
In complete fairness, I do or don’t do stuff that grinds his gears too. I do them often. I don’t mis to disvalue him and I don’t mean to get under his skin anymore than he does mine. Anyone in a relationship does is guilty of these things to some extent.
Now here’s what I haven’t mentioned yet, and what we tend to so easily forget in this world of instant-gratification, self-entitlement, thin-skin, and just general over annoyance with any and every thing: My guy is brilliant. He falls within the genius spectrum (confirmed) in mathematics, problem-solving, and pattern recognition. He is a damn hard worker. He’s served his country. I am proud of him. He’s a provider, a best friend, a confidant, a damn fine lover, and the person I trust more than anyone on this planet. He cares for and nurtures me. He comes home to me everyday. He travels often for work, and I never have to question where he is, or with whom. He’s goofy, and always doing something to get a laugh outta me. He doesn’t harbor addictions, cruel intentions, or reckless behaviors. And he’s easy on the eyes!
One day, I look forward to him being an amazing father to our hopeful future children. Him and those kids will be the messiest, ans silliest of bumblers, but they will be my messy, silly, bumblers and I will love them to my dying breath.
In the meantime, I’ll be the one balancing the budget. He may be good at math, but he’s bad at bills! I’ll pick up after him. I’ll remind him to do or dont do something for the umpteenth time
And that’s okay. I’ve come to realize that a lot of people with higher than average IQs tend to struggle with mundane things. It’s almost as if his brain operates on a different level. I don’t entirely understand it, but it kinda makes me love him even more.
Sure, I’ll get onto him about a blanket on the floor, or a cup outside of the sink, but I will go on and I will get over it. He’s worth a few dirty cups, toilets seats up and toothpaste towels. It took me 30 years to find this man, and it was quite the rocky road before he came along. We’ve had our own share of hardships, but I sure as hell know a good thing, and he is an amazing thing!
Our life isn’t perfect, we aren’t perfect, but we are blessed to have each other. Thanks to this article (which I’ve saved), I have a good reference to remind me of the great things about the man I married, and to not focus so much on the unimportants. So ladies (and gents), put the dirty cup in the sink, grab your significant other, and tell them how much you love and value them, you might just be surprised at their response!
This is amazing. These thoughts capture exactly (and I do mean exactly) how I feel when my husband behaves this way. He is wonderful and I will love him forever, but wow – it gets hard sometimes.
When you wrote “But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household. She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.” all I could think of was “YES. I need to copy this and remember to say it this way next time.”
Thank you very much for your humility and honesty. It goes such a long way to helping spouses feel heard and understood.
Interesting spin to the glass by the sink issue, which is exactly what I’ve been doing and she gets really annoyed (not sure why even after I explain that I use the glass all the time to get water from the fridge water dispenser). It is really not a big deal – it is washed and dry, just not put away in the cupboard. Is it not possible to marry a girl who is not bothered by these things? Isn’t it a compatibility issue or are you saying that all women are bothered by this and all men are not? She uses fly spray all the time in the kitchen and I hate the smell. She thinks I am over-reacting. This has been going on for years… Why does it have to be psychoanalyzed and deemed a respect thing? Is it not possible for two people to get together and live harmoniously because they have the same modus operandi? Is this a good reason why you should have a trial move-in together (like for minimum a year) before getting married?
For some women they have husbands who are totally clueless to the point of being narcissist. But on the flip side their are women (who are narcissist) who use criticism as a control tool. The become hyper critical and just emotionally pummel the husband into submission. After a while the husband gives up or becomes depressed. I have seen wives order husbands around and treat them worst them servants. At one point I was making all the meals, cleaning the house, working full time and making sure the kids homework was done. And from all that I got more complaints. Whenever I completed a task she would move onto another complaint. Don’t get me wrong their are husbands who do the same thing in spades.
I will say that most couples who seem happy and balanced seem to have three things in common. Tolerance for each other’s faults, truly enjoying each others company and good sex. Somehow when all three of those things link together the relationship seems to motor along fine. And when all three things link together it becomes easier for each partner to correct some of their own faults out of love for each other.
Spot on! I filed for divorce in May last year for that very reason (and quite a few others). I even told him that being a complete slob and expecting me to clean up after him (the way his mother still does to this day) made me feel disrespected and completely unappreciated but after having that argument for eight years, I gave up. Our other “problems”, which were far more serious, may not have been nearly as serious had I felt like he loved and respected me. If only men would wake up and realize this while they are married, there wouldn’t be as much divorce in the world!!!
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I love this article. It says everything I have been trying (and failing) to convey to my husband for years. I am going to forward it to my husband right now. Thank you for writing this….seriously…thank you.
This is perfect this is exactly what me and my so are working on be is working on the fact that the little irrational things that are so important to me only take a few seconds and show me how much he cares that something as simple as this means more than flowers and candy. On the female side of this in working to nag less. Just not fight every single battle. Both have to give sometimes him doing stupid little things that he just doesn’t care more makes me feel loved. And me sometimes just letting it go when he doesn’t, means that I’ve stopped putting him down over a dirty dish it means I’ve stopped making him feel that he’s not good enough, that everything that he does for me isn’t null because of one dirty dish. You both have to have give and take
God blessed u you.
I was hoping for a happy ending, besides self-realization. I’m sure this article will help many couples though.
? This article does have me a bit freaked out. Now I have to go figure out if my husband has a “dishes” issue with me.
I went through several years of very challenging times before our marriage of 20 years ended in divorce. I’ve learnt what Matt says and it works a treat, fellas, it really does. It is known as the “Golden Rule”, just do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
I was privileged in that my current partner very early on clearly articulated the things that “pushed her buttons”, when even she said they sounded a bit precious. So knowing those things, to not then take them into account is simply stupid or cruel. My ex however very often articulated what she wanted, then I went out of my way to happily comply, only to find that didn’t help either. I think if your partner is at the “mind reader” stage, it’s all over, no matter how much you try or how much you spend on counselling. My ex even admitted she had always had a “what did I do to deserve this” attitude about her life. She was just devoid of appreciation. My attitude was the reverse, why complain because things can always be worse, in fact they can be a lot worse. Just follow the golden rule whether you feel your partner deserves it or not. My advice would be that if you have articulated your desires to your spouse and they routinely ignore them, unfortunately you’ve chosen a self centred person who can not be expected to change, so bite the bullet and get out now. But ask yourself, are you one of those entitled, self-centred people? If you are, do something about it and see what happens. If not, move on, there are many other wonderful people out there who would be glad of your affection and can appreciate it.
Bawling as I read this, for probably the 10th time. This is spot on. Thank you for writing this, I feel a little less crazy for why I feel the way I do right now. 🙂
I’ve been this guy, but I’m a woman. My ex partner didn’t leave me over it, but it made her unhappy enough, she said, to do some pretty wretched things over which I left her.
She told me that because I didn’t care enough about small domestic things like this, she felt ‘alone in our relationship’ – this made absolutely no sense to me because we had a beautiful, connected, loving partnership. Surely neither of us feels alone, I thought. The line about telling a person something they don’t understand twice really resonated with me.
The beginning of the end was when my then fiancé said to me ‘I told you a month ago that this upsets me, that it makes me feel this way, and you’ve done NOTHING to change it.’
I had barely even registered that first conversation. It didn’t make sense to me. I didn’t listen properly to what she was telling me and make the very minimal effort required to understand and care.
I’m sharing this only to make the point that I don’t think this is a ‘men/women’ issue. Women do this – and in case your mind is racing to stereotypes, I’m the more feminine of the two – the one who should, by most people’s assumption, care most about the house and be good at understanding people’s feelings.
I think it’s just people. And laziness, and entitlement, and self-absorption, ungendered.
This is a great article though, very well explained. Thanks for sharing it 🙂
It is not about the dishes…it is about the realization behind the dish peoples..i am not lazy i work two 10 hour over night shifts and have started working extra 8 hour shifts at residential homes…it is what i do. This last week i had my over night shifts went from that to a training workshop thats required and then from that straight into a 3-10 shift i had made some mushroom soup for my husband in the crock pot just before my first overnight shift of the week for him to eat when he got home i came home the soup was still in the pot and i left it because i was exhausted and by the time i woke up it was time for my second shift..i wanted to get that pot done and washed but couldn’t i had to go. 24 hours later i came home and that pot was still full of mushroom soup. After pulling a near 24 hour shift i came home to a pot full of 2 day old burnt mushroom soup….the immediate thought was this clown thinks this is funny leaving crockpot meals in the crockpot to burn and leaving it for his wife to clean up when he knows shes gonna come home exhausted from taking care of challenged people…he doesn’t care about me or my health or my needs.the second thought was damn he doesn’t care enough about his space or himself to clean up or help clean up… He has no pride in his dwelling or respect for that space if he’s leaving it a mess. It is not about the actual dish being left out, for a woman it is the unspoken words that cup is speaking.
I suspect the article was written by a woman.
Did you see his picture? That’s one fugly girl!
Hi David,
I wanted to point somethings out to you so you wouldn’t make your self look like an ass. 1. The title is “She divorced me because I left dishes by the sink” NOT “I divorced him because he left dishes by the sink”.
2. There is a menu button you can click on that will take you to Matt’s (the author of this article) “about me” section.
3. There is a picture at the top of this page with a man and in the bottom right corner it states ” I’m single. I’m divorced. I’m a father. I make bad decisions. This is my journal”.
With all of this being said, I am very confident to say I believe you assumption is incorrect. I understand it is very hard for most people, women and men, to realize there are men who accept when they are wrong, who actually are able to voice their feelings, and who can better themselves after realizing the mistakes that have been made.
Sir, I hope I was able to clarify any confusion you may have had about the gender of this author and wish you a blessed and joyful life.
Hi Stephanie. Thank you for this thorough and logical explanation. There’s a chance David really believed a female wrote this.
Many other guys said the same thing.
But I’m afraid the truth is probably worse than them simply missing the point and details.
I’m afraid they were calling me a woman in an attempt to insult me, like when boys used to snicker about the uncoordinated kid and say that he throws “like a girl.”
I’m afraid they think being female is inherently worse than being male. Or, in other words, they think men are better than women.
And it makes me feel sorry for their mothers, wives and daughters.
Thank you very much for reading.
THANK YOU!… Here’s why, I saw your “dishes” post circulating over the weekend on Facebook and ignored it as another peice of click bate, this morning laid in bed with the Wife still asleep at my side I spotted your subsequent explanation of the article which I read first, I then read your original article. Thank you again, you have in those 1000 words or so changed me I hope forever, and I’m sure it’s saved my marriage or will make it happier. You see I am that very man, I finish my tea my wife’s lovingly made me and carry the dishes to the kitchen and deposit them next to the dishwasher, I use the last of the loo role and although I usually replace it, discard the empty tube on the floor stacking it on the previous all the time wondering when my wife will move them to the bathroom bin 1m away. I walk in the house 5 minutes after she’s cleaned the floor with muddy work boots and some how think my time is more precious then hers, why didn’t I spend the two minutes removing my boots and replacing them. I could go on and on… Thank you, I am sorry your marriage didn’t work out I wish you all the best for the future
I already knew there really are men like you Andy C. Thank you for your post. I chose the wrong man. I am ok now – I realize he never really loved me in the first place…but wanted a mother. I so appreciate that you took some value from the author’s post … there is hope .. for me .. that I, too, may someday find a loving, caring man like you …. Take Care. (Oh, and I did things wrong in our marriage as well … but, the difference is … I don’t have any problems with saying .. “oh, that was not good .. what I did” .. or saying … “I am sorry – sincerely” .. and I feel it ….those aren’t just words ….for I value my integrity far more preciously than I do my ego.
I’m not married but looking at my parents marriage I get confused and I think my dad does too! They’ve been married 39 years and when my older brother was born my mum did the expected thing and gave up work to be a mother and housewife while my dad went out and worked. My mum looked after both of us kids, did the housework, made sure a nice hot dinner was ready when he came home, washed and ironed all his stuff and kept us quiet when he had a night shift. Fast forward to us kids being in middle school she started working part time on top of everything I’ve mentioned. Fast forward a bit more my dad retired at 56 (factory closed) he does a school run for disabled children am and pm run but the rest of his time is free whilst my mum now works full time but he still expects her to do it all! He doesn’t see why leaving the breakfast stuff in the sink all day bothers her or why he should put the washing on the washing line if she hasn’t asked him to – he doesn’t think to run the hoover round or prepare an evening meal for her BUT she never says to him I’d appreciate it if you’d run the hoover round tomorrow or explains to him why the dishes bother her (it’s because he has all day to wash them!) Instead she moans to me about it. I see both sides dad has never had to do it as mum has always done it all so he doesn’t even think about it and doesn’t seem to see the chores need to be done but to my mum he is being lazy he sits around watching TV all day or plays golf all morning and she thinks that she shouldn’t have to tell him to do it he should just somehow know and now she works full time he should do everything she used to do when she was a housewife. As a singleton I have this romantic notion that my hubby and I would share chores 50/50 (but also a tiny bit of me wants to be the perfect 50s housewife but not many people can live on one income!). Some men do need to be told “please do xxx” as they don’t realise it needs to be done but also sometimes women need to relax is it really that important that he puts the glass in the dishwasher it’s not doing any harm.
Sorry for my rambling but had a lot of thoughts on this!
I thought the part you said about not “knowing” made a lot of sense. Where you’re saying the wife may have been absolutely straightforward, no nagging, tears in her eyes trying her hardest to explain that it means something to her and the important part is that he just meet her half way (I’m paraphrasing…), but he truly just can’t understand it and, therefore, dismisses it (again, paraphrasing). I think this is a huge element to recognize, no matter the situation being discussed or even argued. I wanted so very much, when I was younger, to believe that men and women were equals. We are in the sense that we should be given equal opportunities and treated as peers. However, as much as the younger me would want to argue, men and women do NOT think the same. Sure, there are things where we’re going to coincide on our beliefs and agree on things. BUT, it’s not because we came to that conclusion or opinion through the same method of thinking. It’s in our DNA. Neither gender can help themselves. But, I DO think we can find common ground for understanding. That, I believe, is the key to a good relationship.
I respectfully disagree that the difference is “in our DNA”. We learn it from the first minutes of life. We are trained into these gendered roles and gendered ways of thinking to the point where some people can’t even believe the post could be written by a man.
The good news is that we can change. Just like Matt, we can learn and adjust. My long term hope is that in the future, men won’t have learn to accept that the “irrational” opinion of a woman is important because their partner is important. Instead, they might actually understand that the opinions we don’t share can still have value and be rational. If we teach everyone to be open to the diversity in our natures, regardless of gender then we won’t need to learn “important to her=important to me”. How do I know it’s not DNA? Because I’m a woman who leaves the glass by the sink 🙂
This post made me cry. I am so sorry you came to this understanding too late for your own relationship. But you basically just told the story of my marriage. Only when I said I was leaving- and I actually meant it- he got it. He promised to make me love him again. And he did, starting with things like the coffee spoon on the kitchen counter and the shoes left in the foyer. It’s been two years now and EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED. He calls every day on his way home from work to see if I need anything. He asks if he should buy new snow boots for the kids because he heard it’s going to snow this weekend and then he offers to take them sledding because he knows I hate the cold. He suggests I should enjoy the time alone, maybe read a book in peace. They get home 2 hours later and he dumps all the wet gear in the foyer presumably for me to clean up, the little one is crying because he had forgotten her water proof mittens, he tracks dirty wet snow all through the hallway, and I hand him a cup of hot chocolate, give him a kiss on the cheek and say thank you. It really really isn’t about the dishes.
A lovely response, and thank you for sharing your tears.
There must be some dust in the air.
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I may be wrong, but I read this and it sounds to me like you feel so bad over the end of your marriage that you are blaming yourself any and every way you can, even over things you shouldn’t.
Her feelings about you leaving a cup by the dishwasher are the feelings that she chooses to have about it. Being slightly annoyed about it is understandable but she could choose to assume you have a good reason to leave it there and not get all bent out of shape, or see it as a minor thing not worth getting upset over.
if something so minor and inconsequential in the long run as that really did play a role in her leaving, then it says worse things about her than about you.
Now being considerate and putting it in the dishwasher if you are done with it and not in a big rush is a good thing to do. I’m not saying she should just put up with whatever you do, but being a husband doesn’t mean you become her slave and live life by rules she sets for you either. She took you for better or worse, not for ‘only if he does everything the way I tell him’. If she going to sweat the small stuff, she will run into the same kind of problem no matter who she is with.
My advice to you would be to stop beating yourself up over very minor things and using them to justify what she did. I’m sure there are things you both did to contribute to what happened, but if you turn your molehills into mountains you may miss the important changes you should make.
you are indeed wrong
Feel free to elaborate on that.
Did you actually read the full article and comprehend the meaning behind “the cup”? Your response screams NO. He should not beat himself up, correct. It takes two people to break up and I am sure she was just as guilty at missing cues from him. The point of his article seems to be what you are missing. He is taking a stand, admitting he had some hand in this…Most importantly he truly learned an aspect of non verbal communication that divides men and women and can possibly drive them apart. I hope you realize many women end up not feeling appreciated or respected by the little things a man can do such as “the cup” scenario. It was not the pettiness of the cup, could have been anything. In his case he just realized the manifestation of this through “the cup”. Good lesson to learn. Please move beyond the cup…there are responses here of other men that realized their negative non verbal cues were crushing their wives as well, read some of them. They caught it in time and saved their marriage. She by no means is innocent. But, this article is written by him. It would be interesting to see what her article as well though. That would be a full circle learning moment. Men and women do not give or receive love and respect in the same way. Both partners need to realize this and make the effort to learn each other’s Love and Respect “Language”. By the way, there is a helpful book my husband and I used to help “5 Love Languages”. Very helpful to read together and do the workbook. We learned we are about completely opposite in “language”! Definitely needed to know that! Hope that helped!
From the way you responded thinking the male has last say so in the home and should be the main controlling person, and also the name above, I can only assume you are a Mormon male. My husband is too even though he has not attended a ward since college.
My husband has a sort of mind set like that but he married me knowing that I was an opinionated, Christian southern woman that doesn’t take that crap from any man or child. I’m constantly telling him to pick up what he has left lying around. It is disrespectful to me. I spend all day taking care of our children and making sure he has good food to come home to and a clean home.
This is MY domain just like his work at the Army post is his. I don’t come into his office and trash it and I expect the same from him. It only makes sense to help out your spouse just like I take care of everything from food to finances and he goes to his job to make the money. Marriage doesn’t work if one of you gives everything you’ve got and don’t get anything in return. Once the GIVING stops, so does your marriage.
“Liked”
Regarding the used cup=divorce, I suggest something was wrong in the wife, such as deep seated insecurties, low self esteem, shallowness, self absorption, narcissism, autism, a mixture of all or some of these, or something else entirely that real pro psych people know all about. Or, she was not in love in the first place.
Crazy my partner and I had a very similar conversation last night. Tagged him in this article
Thank you very much for this post. It feels so good to be understood. I was married for 19 years and fought with my husband about these types of things, in particular, because he was self employed and chose his own hours I would ask him to please call and let me know when he was on his way home so I wouldn’t have to wonder and worry. He NEVER did. He thought it was too “controlling”. My husband worked long hours and drove over a mountain pass every day which always caused me angst (especially in winter) and my concern for his well-being was too controlling for him. That was always like a punch in the gut. I think one of the saddest days in my marriage was the first time he walked through the front door and I hadn’t thought about his well being all day. Internally that part of me died. Ironically, I got an apology in the 16th year of our marriage, after my husband became terminally ill and could no longer work or drive. I took our daughters out for a girl day and left him home with the boys (he was not bedridden). Hours later, when we returned, my husband was so upset he cried. “How could you be gone that long without at least calling?” He asked. “I was so worried! Do you know how it feels to spend hours wondering if my wife is alive or lying dead somewhere at the side of the road?!” The realization hit him before I even had a chance to reply. It is sad how many of our disagreements ended once he became ill. How much we bent over backward to make the other person happy, to be understanding, to compromise. We never wanted to win an argument again, we wanted to make sure the other felt understood. Even now, after six years of his passing, I still think about things I wish I’d done differently. I wish I had never wasted a single second giving him the silent treatment, and I wish i would have held on to the hugs longer.
Hi, Matthew.
Thanks for that article. It’s always good to read what you’ve suspected or knew, but you have never been able to formulate.
Same thing happened to me, even if in gay relationship. But, people are people, no difference here..
That’s why I’ve received your post very personal. I see we have used the same words you are using in our talks and quarrels. I was saying how a dish can be so important, how regular throwing out garbage can be important, and so on, and so on.
But you’re 100% right. It have never been about a dish or garbage. Because he was taking more about home than me, it was about his efforts, his contribution in our life together, his act of showing love to me. He was saying a lot of time “this is not about X, this is about how you are treating me”.
I couldn’t understand it. How I treat you? I’ve done nothing to you! What do you want for me? For me it was about looking for a material reason, earthbound reason, which was of course a dead-end. I also used to say “I will do anything, just tell me”. But again, I’ve heard what you’ve wrote: I don’t want to be your mother.
And that’s true. If you want to be a _partner_ for your beloved one, I cannot ask to be treated like a child. Relationship cannot have a passive side. Both sides needs to act in order to make their relationship alive. Here it means you need to anticipated your partner’s needs, even if this mean extra 4-second actions like putting cup into dishwasher. If this means something for her/him, it should means the same to you.
You and I felt to good in this “tell me what to do” situation, but the other side couldn’t take whole responsibility for two, and left.
Now, I need to agree with that: If you cannot find strength in yourself to change those little habits for your partner, and if saying yourself that’s one of the way to show her/him that you care, then maybe you shouldn’t be together, cause in the end one of you will feel underestimated. not respected, not loved.
Best wishes,
HB
I think it goes both ways. I find it interesting these days how men feel so much pressure to validate their wives and women are out with their friends, working all hours if the day, buying take out to eat, etc. If men do the same things then they dont care about their families. As I get older Im learning to appreciate the differences in men and women and what we are good at. We are made differently and I am embracing that more. I am good at organizing the house and my husband is good at making me stop and take a break because he knows I want to join him while he sits on the couch watching some mindless action movie and I want to just be with him-I dont care about the movie. I dont care anymore about the toilet paper or dishes and he doesnt care about my messy car. Life is too short. We have both suffered huge personal losses and the little stuff just doesnt matter anymore. While you may be more aware of these things with another woman in your future be aware of how she is validating you as well. Women want someone who pays attention to the details but then complains while he works to pay for the details. Cmon ladies we can do better. FYI I am only 38, but, def think more like my grandma. Clearly I dont have a problem with gender specific roles and yes I work 40+ hrs a week. Good luck to you in the future and dont be so hard on yourself.
Very powerful and brilliant piece. Your insights apply to more relationships than just marriage.
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There are some good aspects about this post but also some bad ones. Like I still find it kind of patronising – to the tone of, look men, even if we can’t understand why on earth they should have these strange desires in their pretty little heads, we must acknowledge them because that’s just part of a good marriage! It still treats women as though they are irrational and inexplicable.
Why do women feel undervalued when men leave the house in a mess, refuse to do housework, refuse to listen to women’s concerns? It’s called unpaid emotional and domestic labour. It’s called men feeling entitled to women’s time and energy.
Women feel this way because they do a million and one things that men don’t appreciate or recognize, but all add up to a hell of a lot of work and are essential to keeping the household running. When, on top of this, a man won’t even do one single tiny 4 second job it’s a massive slap in the face. It adds insult to injury. Because she is already doing a million equivalent things for HIS sake that she never even gets a thank you for, much less a reciprocated effort. That is why the glass is so important.
Also you don’t seem to get how truly disgusting it is that men continually feel entitled to tell women how they should think and feel. Like do you see here you’re not even treating her as a person when you do that? It’s not like men don’t know how to do it because they do it for other men.
“if he fully understood this secret she has never explained to him in a way that doesn’t make her sound crazy to him”
The thing is that women sound crazy to men because men thinks crazy= whatever he doesn’t want to hear. Men routinely consider women crazy to get out of having to listen to or consider their feelings.
Funny how men think these things are SOOO petty when women ask them to change their behaviour, and yet if they were so petty and so insignificant, why does it matter so much to men not to do them? Why is it so hard to change? I think deep down they recognize that if they did listen to their wives’ concerns they would end up with a lot of extra work. Extra work that their wives do day in day out and men benefit from.
Have you ever considered how exhausting it is to be considered crazy every time you try to assert yourself with someone who is supposed to love you? The amount of hoops that women are made to jump through to use exactly the right words, exactly the right tone of voice over and over again and still get nothing because the man has no real intention of listening in the first place?
I’m glad you’re starting to get it. But the glass is just the tip of the iceberg.
The flip-side of that is that women often demean men in the course of trying to get them to do something they don’t want to do. It goes both ways and it’s rarely, if ever, effective.
Most men don’t think the proverbial glass is important because they were slobs to begin with. They left the glass out because that’s what they would do whether there were someone else to pick up after them or not. A woman’s presence in his life is not a factor in whether he cleans up after himself. He’s probably happy enough to wait until every dish is out of the cupboard and every stick of clothing is on the floor to wash them. He may be wondering why she cleans up before it needs to be cleaned if he thinks about it at all.
Women, if you are considering a man to marry and you see that he keeps his place pretty messy, don’t be surprised if he’s still messy after you two get married. If it’s a deal breaker for you to do all the cleaning because he won’t, then don’t marry him to begin with. He probably won’t change for you.
Funny because men who share houses with other men seem to manage to take care of things and yet change completely when they live with women… I am totally in favour of women staying away from men who don’t do their share of the housework though. Might mean the end of hetero relations as we know it.
Some men are actually cleaner than their wives, so it’s not a principle that all men are slobs. Thankfully, my wife and I can tolerate about the same level of mess, although we still have our differences. Thankfully, we also still have slave labor… er, I mean, kids. (In other words: more mess, but also more help to clean.) We have different ways of cleaning different areas of the house and don’t get too bent out of shape when it doesn’t get done the way we want it, so it all ends up working out in the end.
So, I don’t think heterosexual, even happy, long-term, monogamous, marriages have anything to worry about. Probably the fussier people won’t reproduce, or will at least give their kids a more difficult childhood.
That is certainly true Jim there are always exceptions but there are numerous studies that show men’s lack of domestic participation is the rule, and this is confirmed to me from my own experience and the women I know. So I would say actually the problem is very widespread. http://time.com/2895235/men-housework-women/
http://tinyurl.com/zvq9ore
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/mar/10/housework-gender-equality-women
I have also read that men tend to overestimate their domestic contributions while women tend to underestimate theirs though I can’t find the link just now. Then there is the issue the mental labour involved in identifying what needs to be done which has come up a lot lately, and which the blog author rightly pointed to.
Even when men realise they are not pulling their weight they still expect women to tell them in exactly the right coaxing way to do it which is a huge drain. You shouldn’t even need to be asked, much less put a million specifications on how it should be done. You say women do it in a demeaning way and I can’t speak to your experience. But my experience is that women start off asking nicely, get absolutely nowhere since it’s easy to ignore someone asking nicely, then we move on to asking not so nicely and then men give us loads of crap for that and make the whole issue about how we didn’t say it nicely enough instead of the fact that they are not pulling their weight. In fact you could call that ‘feminist discussions with men in a nutshell’ because you see the same dynamic on many more issues than housework. It’s a no win situation and I for one am glad to be out of it.
I don’t disagree with what you are saying. But let me help you see it from a different angle and then I’ll give a commentary on a significant part of the problem.
Taken at face value, what this general observation sounds like to many men is that many women see men as being evil and women as being good. While the expectation is that men should do housework, what is understood is that women expect men to be evil. It doesn’t matter whether men do housework or not, they are evil anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.
Now most men aren’t going to respond rationally to that. Generally, most men want sex. (I’ll speak on this in general terms here for for simplicity’s sake. Things are usually a little more complex than this, but if this matter is addressed, then other things are more easily managed.) Most women aren’t going to give it to them because they are tired from doing all the housework. The implied promise is that men will get sex if they do the housework. That’s a poor motive for doing housework, because it doesn’t actually work. Men stop doing housework because it doesn’t actually result in sex.
If I understand this right, women don’t give men sex in order to get them to do the housework. That’s another issue. Women like men to talk and generally most men haven’t thought about what their wives might want them to say. Women need the verbal intimacy in order to achieve the physical intimacy. Men are generally clueless about this.
The problem in Western culture today that’s driving up the divorce rate is narcissism. We enter relationships expecting to get something out of the relationship. When we don’t get what we expected to get out of the relationship, then we break the relationship. The solution is to enter a relationship primarily to give to the relationship rather than to receive from the relationship. If you only expect to receive, you won’t. If you only expect to give, then you are likely to receive far more than you could have wanted to begin with. the fact is that both men and women are evil in their unreasonable expectations. But it’s hard for most people to see that when they think they are right in their expectations.
Now, I can’t speak to mothering, but I can speak to fathering, but I suspect that many mothers are to blame for their roles as well. The problem with the drift in the culture is that men haven’t been fathering their children. Truly speaking, many mothers want their husbands to be good fathers, but what constitutes “good” is in question here. Many women don’t want their men to father in the way that men need to father. Boys grow up to be good men when their fathers demonstrate personal responsibility to them, take them out and teach them to take necessary risks, and take them in and show them what it’s like to take care of a family. When a boy doesn’t get this, he doesn’t know what to do when he grows up and has kids. Girls grow up to be good women when their fathers support their mothers emotionally and spiritually and do the same for the daughters. When a girl doesn’t get this, she doesn’t know what to look for in a man when she gets older. Fathers have been dropping the ball for some time now, and I suspect mothers have been complicit in some way, whether from teaching their children how to disrespect their father or by raising them with their own unreasonable expectations. Like I say, I can’t really speak to all that. But regardless of what a woman does, a man can still be a father. If he suffers through a difficult marriage in order to raise his kids right, I think they will see this and grow up to know what he did for them. That sacrifice is what we all need to understand and practice in order to heel the wounds of sin in our relationships in the next generation.
If women pointing out an irrefutable fact about men’s behaviour is translated in men’s minds to ‘men are evil’ then that is men’s problem. It is not the fault of the woman pointing it out nor is it the woman’s job to prevent a man coming to this clearly erroneous interpretation of what she says. This is what it means to take responsibility for your actions – it involves being able to hear and understand legitimate criticism.
If women expect bad behaviour from men, you may consider that it is based on evidence. It would be irrational for women to expect things contrary to evidence.
“It doesn’t matter whether men do housework or not, they are evil anyway, so it doesn’t really matter.”
Despite the fact that I have shown you evidence that men behave in this way and you have even agreed with it, you go on to assert that women’s problem with men not doing housework is completely unrelated to evidence and in fact is based on… what exactly? Some random desire to see men as evil? That comes from nowhere? Why exactly would anyone want this?
I think women may come to offer sex in exchange for housework out of desperation as they can see that this is their major value to men and really the only tool in their negotiating box. That is more an indictment of how men see women than women’s behaviour in my view.
“Men stop doing housework because it doesn’t actually result in sex.”
If all men’s actions in their relationship is based on a calculated desire to extract sex from the woman as you seem to imply here, it is hardly unsurprising that women have negative expectations of men.
What exactly is unreasonable about women’s expectations? That they expect an equal contribution to the household chores?
I don’t see an equality in the reasonableness of expectations. It seems to me very unreasonable to say, on the one hand, all men want is sex and on the other hand treat it as unfair for women to have a negative view of men.
You can’t have it both ways.
“If women pointing out an irrefutable fact about men’s behaviour is translated in men’s minds to ‘men are evil’ then that is men’s problem. It is not the fault of the woman…”
You prove my point. Men are wrong. Women are right. End of story.
“If all men’s actions in their relationship is based on a calculated desire to extract sex from the woman as you seem to imply here, it is hardly unsurprising that women have negative expectations of men.”
Except that it’s no different than housework to many men. It’s what is important for most men to feel loved. That’s what makes it such a strong drive for men. If men don’t realize that acts of service and emotional intimacy are the things that most women need to feel loved, then women don’t realize that things like physical intimacy and doing his favorite thing to do together are the things that make most men feel loved.
“I don’t see an equality in the reasonableness of expectations.”
There’s never an equality in the reasonableness of expectations unless what is expected is for one’s own contribution to a relationship to be redemptive. I don’t see that in your comments. Your only concern is for what the man should do for you, not for what you can do to make him a better man. Likewise, a man should ask himself the same question regarding his wife. I ask this every day: “What can I do today to cooperate in making my wife a better person.” And I expect nothing in return. That’s the only way a relationship will last.
The only thing you have proved is that you persist in hearing only what you want to hear instead of actually listening. I have never said men are always wrong or men are always evil. Only that if people persist on hearing what they want to hear when it is clearly factually incorrect, that is not the speaker’s problem but the listener’s.
I think we are all personally responsible for our own emotional development. You can’t make another person better, change has to come from within.
So you are saying that women want men to do housework in order to feel loved and men want sex in order to feel loved?
I think you are misunderstanding women’s point of view here. Women wanted to be treated as equal partners and human beings. Women do not have some strange biological need for men to perform household duties in order to feel loved. They just don’t want to be treated like an unpaid domestic servant. That is the issue – one of basic respect for another’s labour and contributions. That is so completely different from sex I don’t even know where to start.
The model you propose is more like prostitution than an equal relationship – where sex is something for women to barter, and men pay in household duties instead of money.
As far as I’m concerned for a relationship to be equal it requires equal contribution in the work of the relationship (among other things). If men require sex as some kind of payment for doing their half of the housework that is not equal at all.
You think because I criticise men that my only concern is what they can do for me? No, my concern is that they stop trying to take from me, and other women, more than is fair.
To Rididill, I enjoyed reading Matt’s blog and give him tons of credit for doing what most men won’t do, which is realize he could have done more and that he played a huge role in his wife leaving him. 99% of men would blast their ex to everyone and say how “silly” she was and that he “doesn’t get why she left.” That being said I also see what you’re saying and agree. It really IS the top of the iceberg and you verbalized it so well. I think Matt still has done what almost no man will do. It’s a huge step in the right direction.
Thanks momof5boys, you are right about most men not even trying to see her point of view. I think it’s important to give credit where it’s due, at the same time there is a huge tendency among both men and women to give men massive rewards for doing things that women do as a matter of course and that’s another trend I’d like to see reversed. If you set the bar too low for men it is continuing to treat them like children. Funny when we set high standards for behaviour in the workplace it is called professionalism and ambition. When women do it in the home it is called being a nagging b*tch and we are expected to coddle and coax and sugar coat everything in order to get men to step up and I don’t think that’s ok. As I said though this does not preclude giving credit where it’s due.
She should have left the goddamn glass right where it was until your lazy ass took care of it. Believe me, I was married to a lazy dumb ass, he did not want to work a job or do housework, just sit on his ass. The trouble with her is she thought she had to tell you what to do, she didn’t, you either grow up or you don’t and women are not here to serve men. I don’t believe it either, it was about more than one glass, quit your lying.
I don’t want to have to say “take the garbage out” when he looks at it and sees it’s overflowing!
Amen!!!
“Women are not here to serve men”…..love it! But, unfortunately, they think they are! When I left my ex, he went out and found a submissive Oriental woman. (I suspect she does all his cooking and laundry now).
“Telling a man something that doesn’t make sense to him once, or a million times, doesn’t make him “know” something.” Thank you, Matt. It probably sounds stupid, but this revelation has helped me understand a lot of things that happened in my failed marriage and to heal a lot of old wounds.
“Telling a man something that doesn’t make sense to him once, or a million times, doesn’t make him “know” something.” Thank you, Matt. It probably sounds stupid, but this revelation has helped me make sense of so many things I never could before and has healed a lot of old wounds.
I am tired of cleaning up after my husband. Lazy. I even put my glass in a dishwasher when I visit a friend’s house. It’s disrespectful. Separation agreement has been signed. I’m over it
Thank you! I’ve never been able to articulate this to my husband. It’s not about not changing diapers, sitting on the couch watching T.V. while I clean or that “doing your own laundry” is not helping me when I have 5 other people I have to do laundry for. It’s about respect and loving me enough to care about I care about. I plan to share this with him and hope to spark a conversation that will change us both for the better.
Good luck with that…..
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That was truly profound- YES that’s it in words a man can understand!! Thank you
Solution: Hire a maid!!!
Posting today with some additional thoughts inspire by your fabulous post–from the perspective of a woman and a psychologist. Again, thanks for putting this out there. This is such an important issue!
http://misteriopress.com/2016/02/r-e-s-p-e-c-t-in-relationships-why-is-it-so-hard/
Yes you got it
Interesting article – but I don’t think it can be split down the middle between just man and woman. I am just like you – but the woman in the relationship. I grew up in a home where cleanliness wasn’t a priority and I never learned how to clean up after myself. I was always taken care of (we had a cleaning service come around) or I would always take care of things “later” and let things sit around if they weren’t visibly dirty or unclean. It is so hard to care about things like vacuuming (no pets), dishes on the edge, or making the bed. My boyfriend says unloading the dishwasher takes 30 seconds, but I disagree – maybe it’s ADD or distractions abound but it takes so long for me to do simple chores! I stop and think about them too much. A few phrases have helped me remember to clean up “Don’t put things down, put them away” “Complete the cycle” but I really don’t like feeling like I’m my boyfriend’s student or child. It really is up to the messy partner to realize they can’t get away with messiness anymore like they used to.
Right. I see all of these people wanting to defend my (or their) “right” to leave a dish by the sink or (insert lazy, procrastinating choice here).
And if I’m SUPER-lenient, I can sort of agree that in a partnership, my desire to leave the glass there IS as valid as my partner’s desire to have it put away.
Sometimes, sanity must prevail.
I cannot make an intellectually honest argument that an untidy home is better than a tidy one. And in fact, CAN make an honest argument that a clean and organized home is what’s best.
Sure, I didn’t love feeling like I always had to do what my wife wanted. But in a situation like this?
Yes. It is our responsibility to make some life changes to help our partners keep our lives organized.
I’m sure there are relationship examples where both are messy, just as there are some where both are meticulously organized.
In situations like ours, the low-effort person, in my opinion, is the one who needs to change the most. And once that happens and is demonstrated with regularity, then I think it’s fair to ask the partner to deal with occasional slip-ups with calm, patient sanity.
Thanks for weighing in on this.
I think what it comes down to is… how is the labour divided in your home?
In my home, I work full-time and do all the cooking, while my partner is mostly a house-spouse, with some part-time and temporary work here and there. So he’s responsible for the majority of the housework, including the dishes.
When I come home from work, the first thing I do (after greeting him and the cats and going for a wee!) is take my packed lunch containers out of my bag, scrape any leftovers into the bin, and put them by the sink, lids off. The next thing I do is change into pajamas/at-home clothes, and I make sure my used clothes are put in the laundry basket, (or folded if they’re to be re-worn, like jeans) including separating out any delicates I have like my bras or my handmade shawl. Then, I sit down with him with the cup of tea he’s just made us, and we talk about our day.
Why do I do those things, when it’s ostensibly *his* job to do dishes and laundry? Because if I didn’t, I wouldn’t just not be contributing to the housework, I’d be actively *making his job harder*. And he’s asked me to.
If I leave my lunch containers in my bag, he has to go rooting through it to check if I used any before he can get the dishes done. If I just toss my dirty laundry into a pile on the floor, he has to go hunting around the house for dropped socks etc before he can get any laundry done, and he’ll have to waste time manually going through my things to try and work out whether any need separating out. It’d make all his work take longer and be more difficult, for absolutely no reason.
I respect the work my partner does in our home. More than that, I *need* it. I wake up to a morning cup of tea and a kiss. I come home to a clean house, smelling either of the various cleaning fluids he uses around the place or whichever lovely thing he’s decided to pour into the wax burner/oil burner or incense holder (something . With another cup of tea waiting for me, and a clean set of pajamas on the bed. And a thousand other little things I try to make sure I notice. I thank him often, verbally, and make sure he knows I notice and appreciate his contributions to our lives. But I also thank him with my actions, by doing what I can to make his job easier.
And so does he. Because I’m the one who does all the cooking in the house, I’m also the one who keeps a closer eye on the groceries than he does. So when he uses something up or it’s getting low, he takes the time to write it down on the grocery pad stuck to the fridge, in case he forgets to mention it later. Which means we’re able to easily plan whether I need to pick something up on my way home from work, or if he wants to pop out and grab it during the day, in case I need it to make dinner.
See, now this is how it should work! This sounds like a union that works and both are equally respectful of the others needs/wants. Thank you for sharing. I wish my marriage worked in this way, I have tried every which way and now feel I am losing faith in my ability to keep this alive since it is so one-sided. This in itself makes me frustrated and very, very sad.
@Karri
It helps that we’ve both switched roles a bit in our relationship. We’ve both by turn been the main breadwinner, sole breadwinner and house-spouse at different times over the years, so we’ve experienced it from both ends!
We’ve also had some really hard times. A period of a few years where we were out of work, our mental health issues (between us we add up to one sane, functional person and one complete wreck!) were at an all-time low and we were barely able to bathe ourselves, let alone keep a home in any kind of order. We went from being messy-but-functional young adults to adults living in literal squalor, and the 2 years it took to claw our way out of that kind of forced a lot of growth.
But it’s worked out well! One of the biggest things we learned was to enjoy and to show enthusiastic gratitude. I know a lot of people would find it condescending to be thanked for, say, putting the rubbish out. But for us, part of what got us through that time was being unapologetic cheerleaders for each other. Like, literally calling each other “awesome” and showering with kisses, praise and thanks every time one of us managed to do literally anything. It helped make it easier for both of us to manage the mental strain of re-building our lives, and it’s also helped make us both more acutely aware of what we each contribute.
I’m really late to the party here, but I think this is beautiful.
While I commend your acknowledgment that you needed to do things for your wife that showed you cared, I’m not sure you’re totally on the mark. Now, I’m not a wife, and certainly not your ex-wife, but I am a roommate, and there are many similarities. So I imagine that it was only partially due to the fact that that dish was important to her, and partially due to something bigger: sexism.
From the 1800s to the present, women have been expected to perform unpaid labor – in more recent decades, this is often in addition to regular paid labor. The woman having to clean, cook, and care for the kids is the assumption. If a husband helps, he is doing that: helping. The majority of the burden is placed on the woman; she generally has to ask for her husband’s help – sometimes incessantly – AND thank him after, for doing something she does every other day.
When you leave that dish in the sink, you’re not just saying you don’t care about her. You’re saying, I’m not going to clean this house. You’re saying, I’m okay with making you pick up my messed. You’re saying, I’m okay with you being a maid in your own house.
Maybe you don’t care about dishes in the sink or toys on the floor but the fact is, eventually something has to be done about it. No matter how frequently or infrequently someone cleans, it has to be done eventually, for company or just plain health and safety. And if you never clean, or never clean unless you’re asked to, you are giving that job to your wife. You’ve been trained not to care and we’ve been trained to have to. Believe me, I don’t want to want to clean the dishes or vacuum the floor. But I know that if I don’t no one will. You get the privilege of not having that expectation. That, to me, is the big issue here.
This is my life but the roles are reversed. I grew up watching my stay at home mother take care of everything from doing the dishes to cleaning behind the fridge on saturday. I have always had the utmost respect for woman who can properly maintain a household. Now I am older (28) a father of 2 boys and married. for the ten years we have been together I have picked up after my wife. I do the cooking and I cant stand a dirty house. My wife is the exact opposite. She works very hard in her line of work; standing long hours dealing with all kinds of personalities she is a salon owner after all and i’ve seen her in action and let me tell you I get exhausted just watching her. But at the same time I work too. Until just recently I worked 40-50 hours a week in a level one trauma hospital and I took call 24/7 so after a long day of seeing gruesome tragedies with poor prognosis I would come home to a dirty house and no dinner so I would start cooking. And after all that pray I wouldn’t get called in at 2am just to come home at 4am and have to be back again at 8am to start another day that was just like the last. We are a real life Darma and Greg couple. We argue, literally argue all month long about these very same small issues but cant seem to figure it out. So after my cat whom I only had for 3 short months passed way, something inside of me “snapped” and I started realizing I had created a better relationship with this cat than my own wife. And as a result I began doing things the way my wife would and seeing life’s inter workings the way my wife would and I feel my soul for the first time has been lifted and I have even started a new career path that will benefit people and bring happiness to me. One thing is for sure people can change for the better. If not for others, for ones own self. We haven’t fought over dishes in nearly a year but now that I am a student and not making the money I was in years past we argue over that. It seems we have reversed personalities at the same exact time. I guess that’s just who we are though. We fight. I hate it and we cant stand to be around each other two weeks out of the month but what can we do? Hopefully we can stay strong until I’m done with school, (again).
What is wrong with this world, so much sickness and pain in this world, homeless and hungry and she is fighting over a dam glass in or by the sink….. This woman needs a reality check!
Joann, I can’t agree more. My wife and I have both been around the world (South America, Africa, Asia, and the Middle East) among some of the poorest people there. It really does give you a healthy perspective as to what is important. For one, you do want to take care of what you have, grateful to have so much. But you also realize that a dirty glass on the counter is really nothing compared to what other people have to live with.
I’m definitely having the “glass by the sink” conversation before I ever remarry.
I am a female and I think you ladies that think leaving a cup by the sink or leaving the house dirty or leaving the pot of soup there for a few days causes you so much pain and you think you’re partner or husband doesn’t love you then you need a reality check. Get over it you feminist bitches! If you don’t like catering to your men then go be a lesbian. Seriously, so freaking what if there are dishes in the sink and the laundry isn’t done. Call me old fashioned but that’s a woman’s job. I personally love doing all of that and makes me feel good that I can take care of my man while he wants to relax.
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What a pussy. Way to man up and put a dress on.
Real men have no need to be pretentious with a contrived machismo.
Careful there Jim… you won’t like him when he’s angry 😉
With a name that starts with “piano” and ends with “key” I’m inclined to take you seriously. 🙂
Well done, and never too little too late.
Hi Matt,
I read your article just before bed last night. And in truth, I read your explanation before I read the actual article.
My husband and I had just had the very difficult conversation of whether or not our marriage was worth saving. A conversation that was long overdue, and left us both feeling defeated, beaten and pretty much broken. Then I came across your post while trying to turn my brain off before bed. I read it three times.
You nailed it.
It’s funny, because I hadn’t really thought about it like that before, but you absolutely hit the nail on the head – from both sides.
I sent the link to my husband to read so that maybe he will get it too.
What the future holds for us is completely unknown, but thank you for giving us a little insight and something to mull over while we decide.
A long-married friend of mine told me when I was still single that it was the little things that she hated about being married: “He squeezes the toothpaste from the middle!”
You know, find solutions. Buy two tubes of toothpaste. Hire a maid. Get your drinks from the wet bar or build a second kitchen! Neither the other person nor you need to “change.” You just need to find a way to put up with things that irritate you.
If your wife truly left because of irritation over “little things,” she is going to be in for a rude awakening. Every man she meets has a sack full of “little things” just waiting to jump out and greet her.
As a divorced single mom I so deeply appreciate you and this.
Self-awareness + objectivity are the keys to life and happy relationships.
I’m sending this to every man I know.
“I’m sending this to every man I know.” Terrific. I’m sure they will all appreciate that. And now you know why you are a single divorced mom.
And what’s your excuse for being a bitter, lonely troll?
That’s too funny. I’m the furthest one could,be to be called a troll, simply because you didn’t like my comment. My wife and I are very happy together and supportive of each other. I do most of the cooking because I love to cook. She appreciates that. We both do our own laundry most of the time. We clean up after ourselves, but when we happen to not, the other steps up without comment or bitterness. This whole thread has some value as a reminder of what a relationship should be. But when you make a statement like…”I’m sending this to every man I know.”… It clearly demonstrates unresolved bitterness and an inability to to look at ones self. IMHO!
Why is it that you’re so self-congratulatory about cooking (but only because you like to … because otherwise it’s totes a woman’s job?), doing your own laundry and cleaning up after yourself?
Do you expect a gold star next to your name? An attaboy, Earle?
Do you think you’re doing your wife a favor by washing your tighty whities and picking up after yourself, cause that’s her job?
And, yeah, you’re a troll. Unless you somehow believe your sarcasm and snark toward Kate actually contributed something of value.
In which case, being a troll may be the least of your issues.
LOL. It really sounds like you have more issues than Kate or others here. Your so angry. Assuming I am looking for pats on the back is ridiculous. I have interests, my wife has interests, I’m sure you have interests that you just simply enjoy.
I have to say, it looks to me like you’ve grown. It’s too bad that it took a divorce from someone for whom you obviously still care for the growth to occur.
Being a woman, I can definitely understand “the glass” issue. But having been married to the most wonderful man in the world for the last twenty years has shown me that, while we all have our “glass by the sink” issues, it’s how we choose to handle them that ultimately causes the problem — or the solution.
In my opinion, women tend to focus on the small things, the immediate issues. It seems that men focus more on the big picture, the future.
We’re all trying to do our best (most of us, anyway) to ensure the happiness of those around us. If we get it wrong, it might just be our perspective. If we change our perspective, just for a second, maybe we can figure this stuff out. Maybe we could get it right – or at least a little closer.
Thanks for the insights.
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Men need to realize that women don’t want to be “the maid”, or as you stated, “your mother”. We get annoyed that men constantly can’t or rather won’t pick up after themselves! We get tired of having to repeat things over and over….it is just exhausting. I was always telling my ex, “I’m going to leave someday”…..because he would never help with the chores. He never cooked, never cleaned, and never did laundry…..I did finally leave.
This just sounds like an excuse for women to never compromise about small things and that a marriage is defined by the standards of the wife.
No thanks, I’m leaving that glass on the sink.
Remember it isn’t about the glass, but enjoy being single anyway!
You are a metrosexual wimp. If you spent more time laying pipe instead of pouting about glasses you might still be married. Ever think that maybe she left you because she wanted a real man?
Thank you for proving my point for me.
You’re invited to read this. It’s like I wrote it just for you:
http://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/02/10/she-feels-like-your-mom-and-doesnt-want-to-bang-you/
Bingo
Bullshit.
It’s still just a fucking glass.
Bullshit! It ISN’T just a fucking glass, though! How is it possible that you can still be missing the point?
I’ve realized if I don’t prioritize my time to where I connect with my husband-aka small talk, flirt, be intimate-then little things like a cup do get on my nerves. It really isn’t ever “the cup”. There’s an underlying problem that needs to be acknowledged and addressed. For lack of a better metaphor (because it’s late for me already)-marriages are gardens that need to be tended to or the weeds become unbearable and you just want to pull the plants out and put a rock garden.
Well said Amanda. Simple, isn’t it unless you have little interest in the relationship in the first place.
I’ve been married to a wonderful man for 33 years. The longer we’re married the easier living together gets. Small things like leaving dishes out don’t matter when you’re worrying about memory loss, sleeping less, etc. I try to laugh a lot.
Love your comment because it is so true. And one must have a sense of humor.
No matter how perfect a man is..that does everything plus the small things..woman will always find something to complain about..that’s something thing article to say..=(
I think the drinking glass is a rather extreme metaphor, because most act of disrespect are more blatant. As your readers have pointed out: seeing the trash full but waiting to be told to empty it; leaving ones socks on the floor for another adult to pick up; not taking off boots before walking on a just mopped floor and leaving a lovingly cooked meal to rot in the crock pot when the wife is working all night. My ex would tell me, “You cooked, I’ll do the dishes.” And he did exactly that. Never once did he wipe the counters of clean up the stovetop. “I’ll do the laundry!” And he’d mix the colors and whites leaving me to wonder if his plan was just to do things so badly that I’d do them for him. He had to have some sense of how exhausting it was to constantly have to tell him how do simple tasks. And this same person could earn twice what I could in the workplace. None of it made sense to me.
I left after 13 years. And I hope your male readers realize: when a woman makes that decision, when she has finally had enough of mothering someone she wished she could look up to, there is no changing her mind. Women need to understand the whole Prince Charming thing is a figment of someone else’s imagination, but to realize that the man we’re in love with expect us to treat them like their mother did, like children, is the most heartbreaking realization one can have. I don’t pick up after other adults. I’m not the mom. I’m not the maid. And I’ve been happily single for the last 18 years. Men love to be married. Once released back into the wild, they re-couple a.s.a.p. It’s said that married men live longer than single men. Sadly, married women do not. Single women live longer than married women.
It’s never really about the drinking glass or the top of the toothpaste. It’s about respect and adulthood. Women want to marry a grown up, an equal . . . someone intelligent enough to to see when the trash needs to be emptied and considerate enough to put the toilet seat back down. (Or better yet, someone considerate enough to sit down and pee so they don’t splash and wait for you to clean it up, the one thing my ex instinctively did right.) The whole toilet seat thing is a cliche really, but it seems to me the ultimately sign of disrespect. So what if you sit down on the bare porcelain in the middle of the night that I just pee’d all over. Deal with it.
My experience with marriage has left me terrified of marriage. I long to love and be loved but really afraid of having to actually live with someone again. I fear I now have too many buttons to push, will overreact at the first careless “insult”. You see, you don’t realize it’s all disrespect right away. We start off patient and kind and gently explain, “no, sweetheart, the balance at the ATM machine is not what you have to spend today, the mortgage payment hasn’t yet clear the account . . .” “Sweetheart could you please take out the trash?” Like he’s doing me some personal favor. Sheesh. Rinse and repeat, over and over until one will do anything to make it stop. Would marrying again be an act of complete insanity? I’ve heard first wives train their husbands to be good mates for his next wife. Was that my job? It’s sad if it’s true.
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You hit the nail on the head Matt! Thank you for understanding the female perspective of men collaborating and helping keep a living space clean. I was just talking about this dasy ago with my own fiance. I am sorry she left you— I truly am. Thank you for writing this article, as perhaps it will resonate with other men who don’t get that helping to keep a space clean does show respect to their partner. Well said!
I think you missed the point Danielle. This article is not about a glass nor about keeping a space clean. It’s about two completely different mind reasoning, actually not about reasoning, but about understanding the other mind that doesn’t make sense and respecting it.
She didn’t miss the point, and it’s ridiculous for you to suggest that she did.
The way she phrased it “helping to keep a space clean” is how she explains it. Like the glass, you know? Get it?
Your comment is the exact sentiment of the pre-divorce guy in this article who doesn’t understand one glass and takes it too literally. You’re doing the same in your comment! What a shame.
Replace her words “helping to keep a space clean” with “not leaving his glass in the sink” — does that help you not to think that Danielle “missed the point”? Keeping space clean is her version of not leaving the glass. That’s why she says she was just discussing it with her fiance. It’s a “thing” for her and important to her, again like that glass in this article. Get it?
“The other mind that doesn’t make sense”! ! Wow, you really have missed the point.
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Rafael, Dee and Danielle did miss the point, but this has become normal in the american society. Men are always wrong, the bumbling idiots that don’t understand women etc. Men need to change, men need to apologize, they need to understand women and do as they say or are idiots if they do not. Rather than be argumentative the author just pointed out that there was a difference in how the genders think and showed an effort to understand the other side. I opened the article because it resembled my first marriage, one in which I never once heard the phrases I am wrong or I am sorry from my wife. Fortunately there is hope my second marriage is at 12 years with a Brazilian woman and it is the complete opposite with mutual respect shown for each other. She refuses to cut the grass though. 🙂
I don’t think that anyone actually gets the point here…..the point is that by leaving the glass, he is virtually telling her that this her responsibility to clean up after him when it should be a partnership in everything they do…….he was right….she SHOULD NOT have to tell him what he needs to do to share the responsibility of a household……he should figure it out himself, as an adult and JUST DO IT, because that’s what adults in a partnership should do. It is incredibly exhausting to have to continually ask someone to do do stuff, any stuff……at the end of the day, it’s just easier to do it yourself, and then you start to resent it……and that’s how things go downhill….yes men do think differently to women…..but they are not stupid and it’s time that they stopped acting like children.
https://ricettevegetarianesite.wordpress.com
Se vi interessa la cucina vegetariana fate un salto qui, nel mio blog potrete trovare favolose ricette da gustare!
Ma non è proprio il miglior posto per il tuo messaggio — hai sbagliato blog per caso? Qui si tratta di un discorso da un uomo statunitense che scrive le sue idee sul rapporto matrimoniale e quando le cose vanno storte. Forse io sono l’unica fra i lettori che capisce l’italiano — andrò volentieri a vedere le tue ricette…
***For Matt: My reply to this person is that maybe they’ve posted in the wrong blog LOL — both for the language and the content…. They have a blog of vegetarian recipes. In Italian. They might even be good ones but how/why did that post end up here? 😀
Mi scuso per il mio errore, ho pubblicato il post su tre articoli a caso. Non era assolutamente mia intenzione sminuire la tua situazione.
Ho letto male, ho pensato che tu fossi lo scrittore del blog stesso e quindi il messaggio l’ho rivolto a te. Comunque sia resta sempre valido 😉
Best blog i have read for a very long time. Thanks.
“She wants to divorce him because she feels like he doesn’t respect or appreciate her, which suggests he doesn’t love her, and she can’t count on him to be her lifelong partner. ”
Wrong. She wants to divorce him because she is not attracted to him anymore, caused by his beta behaviours, including but not limited to her having to be his mommy. Women dont want to be her husbands mommy. She wants a strong and desirable man beside her, one that she looks up to and is attracted to, not a spineless weakling. And no, “caring” about her wouldnt fix this either.
You are probably touching a lot closer to the real truth of the matter, Nick.
I, for one, have never understood this proclivity for some people to get on the internet to air the dirty laundry of their personal lives. Is it really that important for you to have attention or validation? Is this some pathetic attempt at finding a new romantic partner? Or to start an internet following? Does introspection require publication and prostration in front of the (virtual) town square?
I think not. Beta behaviour indeed.
Beta behavior? Maybe, maybe not. But a true alpha doesn’t need to deride betas to be assertive. Posturing is unnecessary when you have the goods.
Ewwwww…. I threw up in my mouth a little. Good luck with that, “alpha.”
I’ll be over here barfing forever.
I’m really at a loss as to what disgusting thing you think I wrote.
Whoops. My comment was for Nasty Nick. Sorry Jim pemberton.
That clears that up. No problem.
In order to understand the point of this article, you need to read or attend a “Love & Respect” seminar by Emerson Eggerich then you & your spouse can be the people that you need to be to each other to figure how to make your marriage work, and it can work very well once you finally “get” what the other person needs.
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This, all of this, I used to not put in emotional labour, I now do! Change men who want ifes who stay, change!
And people act like its a mystery. It’s not that hard, love yourself and love her and put the work in. The reward is for applying yourself is amazing.
You get it!! I could kiss you!! I tried to explain it to my fiancé – why I was upset after coming home from my second 12-hour shift in a row (I’m a nurse) to find his dirty dishes in the sink (ok, two dishes, one fork, one knife, one glass and one large saucepan) and him playing COD on the computer. He didn’t get it and still doesn’t. I sent him your article. Hope he gets it before it’s too late. Thanks for understanding.
Pardon the language, but this is bullshit.
Why? Well, this sentence best explaines it: “It makes her seem ridiculous; and makes me seem like a victim of unfair expectations.” Yes, it is completely unfair. If you married a woman who would divorce you because you couldn’t simple chores, you took a bullet. If she divorced you because you didn’t do them, you dodged a bullet. I’ve been with women like this before. I won’t do it again.
Now let me say that as the man, I am the one who does the dishes in my relationship. Do I think my wife is disrespecting me because she doesn’t do them? No. Know why? I decided that my relationship wasn’t about my expectations. I decided it was about what I have to offer her. On the other side of the coin, I wasn’t going to pair myself with someone who thought the relationship was about her expectations. I made sure to find someone who felt the same as me. She expresses her love and respect to me in many other ways…and I lap it up like a thirsty dog.
So, if the author was divorced by a woman who couldn’t stand that he wouldn’t pick up after himself, it’s my contention that doing so was the bare minimum. I don’t have any scientific proof, but this is a tell-tale sign that he totally took the relationship for granted and didn’t show much motivation of expressing his love for her in ANY way…at least not that often. Yeah, he probably made mistakes, but it was much bigger than something as trivial as chores. To the author: you still don’t get it, but good luck.
He gets it. The glass was a metaphor.
I agree with this post… Question your expectations: stated and unstated. Shake off your ideas and meanings of ‘how it oughta be’. Love freely, care deeply, be considerate. Doesn’t mean you have to place the same value on actions.
I posted a comment a few days ago about how everything changed in my marriage when my husband finally understood what Matt is trying to explain. When I said everything changed- I meant everything- not just him. When I walked into the kitchen and his coffee spoon wasn’t there for me to clean up I knew he was trying. That little action showed me he cared. All the little things add up, for better or for worse. Once he was “trying” I began to feel cared for, loved, and respected in a way I hadn’t for such a long time. Slowly, it made me love him again, even more than before. Now I think we both try to make each other happy, to make each other’s lives easier, and to be in this together.
Matt, I want to add one other thing that your post helped me realize. When you feel like you are the only one who is trying it can make you act a little self-righteous. Back then, I felt that every single thing he did that annoyed me was evidence of his apathy so the evidence just kept mounting. It was easy to tally his mistakes and disregard my own because “Really? He’s going to get mad about that? I do everything around here!”. Your post made me realize that yes, he was wrong for not putting in the effort but I was also wrong for assuming that the only possible reason was that he didn’t love or respect me.
These days, I don’t assume or let grievances fester. And my self-righteousness (which I only now realize was there) has disappeared. I should probably check with my husband though to be sure. That’s a conversation that we can actually have now. We are far more honest with each other about managing daily life, our strength and weaknesses, and even admitting when we feel tired, overwhelmed, or just plain lazy and need the other to pick up the slack. So when you said that “Everything changes forever” I believe that is true in so many ways.
I’m going to divorce her for making me read this article.
So true!
Is matt a plant?
She’ll be better off.
Oh Buddy. She really beat you down huh? Here’s the thing: you’re prowess at domestic duties were not the reason she left you. Unless she’s the shallowest woman on the planet of course. In fact, the bottom line is she slowly realised she shouldn’t have married you and managed to snowball these unbelievably trivial things into a “lack of respect” and a reason to get out. If it hadn’t have been this, she’d have “met someone else” or found some other reason.
Were there not things that she did that drove you crazy? Did you translate them into being symptomatic of some deep-seated failure within the marriage? No. Because you’re a guy not some princess who never reconciled the fact the her True Prince never game and instead she compromised and settled for you.
A genuine, mutual, loving relationship would not have been derailed by this trivia. God knows there are real, major, sh1tty things that can. There was nothing you could have done here, other than prolong the agony. Certainly not agonising over what you could have or should have done differently. Step up to the plate, focus on the truly important things, face it that she was the wrong one for you and move on.
And stop writing articles like this validating every other woman who’s looking for an excuse!
Good luck.
Totally agree. She had an agenda. And it seems thT while Tanya disagrees, she validates your response. Life is crazy sometimes.
Maybe, but maybe not. The glass is just ONE example. The author can’t really line list every single of the examples of their failed marriage, it’d be too long. This glass example is a good one. Simple and applicable on a grander scale.
I left a relationship (and would never marry the guy). This article really is an example of helping to explain why. I could never count on him, he never gave me the respect or the help, even though I gave it to him on other things that I didn’t always want to do, but I did do for him. It bigger than just the request… just do it because what matters to males and females is “different”. Doesn’t make it right or wrong, just different.
Is it possible she settled? Sure.
But it’s also very possible that these things you call “trivial” multiply and exacerbate and what happened in this story really happened without the woman “settling” and finally grasping for excuses in order to have a way out. Little things really do add up and really do weigh on a woman over time.
This guy is trying to explain something here with this story. It’s a bummer how many guys aren’t even attempting to understand and just defensively firing back.
Good luck to you guys!
Nope. Totally don’t agree. I simply see it as two people who were not matched well from the beginning & the woman is so controlling & insecure in herself that she creates a problem from a glass. I’m a divorced woman & I was probably very much like the woman in this article. I firmly believe we need to teach more tolerance & to truly let things go.
Amen to that!
Yes, some women generally can be very controlling, that I agree with.
But also, little things add up over time. That lack of respect, support, of the female doing MORE. Depends on the guy and what he’s doing to help, but if she is mostly taking care of the kids and the cleaning and the organizing and the calendar AND is supposed to bring home the bacon with a job… I mean these little things and lack of support just kill the partnership over time if neglected.
Yes, of course it’s possible they were simply just a bad match from the start.
But, this is a great example – it’s a story using something simple, glass by the sink, to explain a bigger point. Sometimes men think differently then women. That’s just life. But if they can try and understand or see the bigger picture that can help the partnership.
It’s a great story and example for a lot of people, maybe you don’t see it, but other people do. This could help open minds and benefit relationships. Disappointing to see people like you writing this off as “wrong”. For a lot of people this is helpful and they can relate, including me. So I’d say that in your circumstance, maybe this doesn’t resonate. But as for me, you are the one who is wrong because it does resonate.
I agree it is two people who were not a match. They both have differents values of what is important in a relationship, do not communicate at the same level to each other, and acted unskillfully in resolving relationship conflicts.
It as if their egos were placing booby traps in the household and waiting to wound the other person into submission.
“I have never said men are always wrong or men are always evil.”
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I don’t mean that that’s what you intend to mean, but that’s the way it sounds to men’s ears. But if it is up to you to understand me rather than up to me to make myself clear, then by your own standard you are guilty. However, I’m willing to take on the responsibility to explain myself again so that you understand.
And you think sex between a husband and wife is somehow like that between a man and a prostitute, then you have another problem. The fact is that the kind of expectation you have is morally relative. It’s your own expectation. It’s the same of a husband to desire his wife sexually. That’s morally relative as well. But you would repudiate his expectation and expect him to meet your expectation because yours is somehow more reasonable. it’s not. It’s all relative.
The only expectation that isn’t morally relative is self-sacrificial concern for each other that comes from both a husband and a wife. Will they both do this perfectly? No. That’s why neither can expect it in return. It’s the stuff of true love that goes beyond what is merely romantic or dutiful. It takes boldness, strength, character, and total dependence on the One who demonstrated true sacrifice.
And what is the answer if she had ledt her own glass by the sink after making the rule about the glass being put in dishwasher.
This should be a partnership, not slavery
Nonsense.
She’s entitled and bitchy and you’re better off without her.
She would have found a reason to move on anyway. And if you don’t get thjis, you’re destined to repeat the process again. Put your dishes where you put them. If she gives a shit about you, she’ll stay. If she doesn’t… let her go and play her power trip games with someone else. Because there will always be something. It’s not about the dishes. It’s abnout emasculating you and not being okay with having masculinity in her life in general.
Seriously. You don’t need women like this in your life. You’re far better off without them, or with a woman that gives you the respect you deserve.
So….”masculinity” = rude and unthoughtful?
It’s about being able to realise that you have preferences as well, which are deserving of just as much respect as hers. The extreme version above in VoE I would disagree with, but it has been interesting reading the number of comments from people about how the author “gets it” or people who’ve tried to “explain” to their husband/fiance/partner. I’m forced to ask how many of them actually asked, non-judgmentally and not as part of “I want this to happen, why aren’t you doing it”, why it is that their partner was doing this. People like to look at it as “well obviously he’s leaving it for the woman”, and there will certainly be some who do that, but that isn’t always what it is.
Has he left it there because he’s not sure if he’ll want to use it again later? Or does he have a different idea about how the process should be (eg. Store it on top until the evening, then put it all in the dishwasher at the same time, or wash them all at the same time)? How many of them left it and waited to see what he would do, rather than just straight away putting it away and/or yelling at him to do something?
How many have actually sat down with their partner willing to find a compromise, as equals, that works for both, rather than just assuming that because it’s how they want it, it should be done that way (which is why I have a problem with the version in VoE’s reply)? And yes, that does mean men need to be just as open to it as women do.
This is my household in every way, thank you for putting some perspective on how I am affecting her, my wife and I literally had a fight about something simple that exploded into something so much more last night, all of it was the little things I don’t do and the original start of the fight became just the icing on a very large cake…we are talking about it now but I really didn’t understand what had happened and I just rolled with it and agreed just to stop the fight until I read this, it has changed my whole world thank you very much.
It’s death by a thousand cuts. It’s the little things like this, day in and day out, that will chip away at your marriage. Usually when two people get to the point of filing for divorce they don’t see how many little cuts have been made and all they see is a gaping wound.
American marriage is a joke. Because you left your coffee cup by the sink, you now may owe her years of alimony? Why doesn’t she just go to a women’s shelter and say she’s “afraid” so she can get the house, too?
For men, marriage is like a constant series of mindreading tests where you are rewarded by not losing your retirement account, house, and kids. You may still have to endure sex with a passive, doughy test-administrator once or twice a year, too. That’s also considered a “reward”.
You know who’s the winner in all this? The guy next door who used to bone your wife while she was still hot and you were slaving away for that down payment on the house.
This response is offensive.
How can it be offensive? It’s his opinion. It’s his reality.
Feel sorry for him. Can you imagine being so oblivious to the point of the article and so bitter? Poor guy.
Well said.
Great insight on what the dishes represent. I don’t think that is the entirety of why your wife left you; but, I can say her decision was premature, based on this alone, anyway. She had a husband with more insight and clarity of thought than 99% of all other women “out there.” A husband who was willing to work with her once he realized the “dish” wasn’t a dish.
A really great article. Surprising insightful!!
Yes. It’s about respect and emotional support.
Thank you for this enlightenment.
Matt I wish you’d written this 20 years ago. 🙂 I’ve been with my husband a very long time and truly we had this “light bulb” moment years ago when it wasn’t about the stupid glass it was about respect, love, security, and all that makes a relationship so full and wonderful. I’m sending a link to both my daughters. They definitely need to read this as much as all young men need to read this. Thank you so much for your articulate post that will help many people in the future. Bravo! One of the best articles I’ve read in a long time!
Congrats on going viral with this; it’s that good. You’ve gone deep and, in my opinion, hit gold, then did a great service by sharing it!. There is a reason I divorced my first husband; there’s a reason I stand by (and love) my current husband–I think you articulated the reason when even I wasn’t clear on it. I look forward to sharing this/your blog.
Reblogged this on gdhayesblog and commented:
As I told the author of this blog, I think he went deep and hit gold. The insight contained herein is just that good. If you want relationship, read this and think…
Hi there, I read your post with interest, because, yes, I’ve been a wife, and yes, I know that exact scenario. I am also divorced,…
Something that kept coming up for me, however, while you were talking about respecting and doing things for your wife, without really understanding why it’s important to her , is that – it’s condescending.
In situations like this in my own life, if my partner just nodded his acquiescence, I felt unheard and disrespected. I wanted an equal partner who understood that I was not there to be his mother, and one who took full responsibility for his own existence in a house. Then we could both be free to pursue the rest of our day. It IS exhausting to have to ask or remind someone to pick up after, put away, clean, or even make the tea for a change. I wanted us to be partners in this game of life. That is the respect I was looking for, not the kind that a dog gives you because he knows where dinner comes from.
I applaud your willingness to do this emotional excavating, but I also think you might need to go a little deeper. If men are capable of complex thought processes, how come it is that so many still cling to a story of ‘personal entitlement’ in their relationships?
No hard feelings, I hope…
Best regards,
Jan
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I have always tried to explain this to him and never been able to. Great job, and very precise. Thank you!
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Women like those in the “glass situation” usually have deep seated issues like Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) or other psychological issues. Whe you first meet them, they usually hide this fact, acting as if they don’t really care about that “glass” you left in the sink.
I tell you now, it starts with the glass and it’s ddefinitely going to the bedroom. They will have issues in the bedroom and blame you for being a sex pervert and start wanting to control every aspect of your life. It’s all about control, it’s all about them.
That’s why it’s important to first date someone, spend time learning them. Hence looks are deceiving! It’s important to get married to someone who’s your type, who don’t care so much about leaving the glass in the sink.
Reblogged this on and commented:
I like this post. I really enjoyed it.
A lot of what I feel and think is totally inconceivable to Danny. He seldom tries to get past his way of thinking to understand what I am trying so hard to say. Over and over. Yet, he doesn’t hear me. He hears something different.
He hears his mom at times.
I won’t talk about her except to say she hurt him
emotionally. Hurt him bad.
I work hard, trying to see things from his viewpoint. To understand where he comes from.
Danny can’t’/ won’t to the same.
In his eyes, he’s right and I am wrong.
Why does one of us always have to be right?
Everything is good. Nothing happened lately for me to comment like this.
This post just spoke to me.
Totally agree with you. I left mine and this is one of the reasons; he doesn’t know why. I have to be his mother, the maid, housekeeper, nanny and mother to our child besides holding a full time job. If he doesn’t know how to clean up his own cups and mess in the kitchen, I just don’t have enough energy to do it till am 80.
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Well written. You have this clarity because you are single. were you with her you would probably be fighting about some stupid offense as heavy as leaving the bathroom light on right now.
That made me laugh. And might even be true.
Creatively written and well thought out. I’m sorry about your loss, but appreciate your depth of thoughts…very symbolic too. I wonder, did anyone ever think of just hiring a housekeeper? ..to save the marriage??
Matt, thank you for sharing this meaningful post with the world…you’re amazing!
Great – absolutely great post. You know that all ready but wanted to say it 🙂 Sorry you had to answer and explain your personal thoughts.
You have a great sense of mission in sharing your experiences with husbands. I feel similarly too … about advising the young how to make the right choice and really truly listen to their hearts when choosing a life partner – making sure you do so for all the RIGHT reasons. Stems from personal experience but admittedly do not write much about it because am a bit mindful of my ex spouses feelings … but maybe it ought to be ok cause we both married for wrong reasons … I think !!! .
Reblogged this on brokenkeyboardthinker.
This is one of the reason why I want to listen to a guy’s perspective and point of view at times when I have confusion about how my husband act.
Mmm, another time I feel like I’m the husband and he is the nagging wife, maybe not so clearly a boy girl thing. We are both playing opposite roles, otherwise we could have such peace, oh well
Absolutely awesome post!!
She divorced you because you left dirty dishes in the sink….
You let her have the divorce because it had been 4 years, 3 months and 16 days since she gave you a blow job.
Where is that article?
It’s not always this deep. Sometimes it is more the fact that they are an adult and you should not have to clean up after them. However, in most cases if the man lived alone that glass might sit there for weeks or even months along with a lot of other ones. If his wife lived alone there might be no glasses lying around most of the time. When you move in together you should compromise. My husband and I are finally closer to the point where I realize he doesn’t care about stuff like that but he realizes I do so while he doesn’t go around tidying up all the time like I used to, now we both relax a little more and get to it eventually and he helps me out more. The house does not look as clean as it would if I lived alone and it does not look as dirty as it would if he lived alone so we found a happy medium. Even my 7 year-old is starting to help more the older she gets.
Crazy . I do the dishes i work a average of 12 to14 hours a day. My wife does not work. She does her own laundry . I do mine. She never cleanes the house unless i stop doing it. She doesent touch anthing out side lawn or pool. Shedoes make dinner but that realy does not mater to me. I can make my own dinner . She mostly makes what shelikes and thinks i should just eat it and then asks if i like and she knows i dont. She goes shoppi g forgroceries once a.week. urson does his own laundry and makes his own breakfast. She takes him to school and picks him up and helps him with his home work.. my wife loves the artical what am i seriously missing here. Sounds like the artical above was about happy wife happy life . But from experience that means make your wife happy and she will not give back but expext more ans you give up your life for her and she will just keep taking . I found doing what the artical said and it just made her happy because i h a d no life for my self just so shewas happy wich ment i had actualy been worki g about 16 to 18 hours a day and as long as i was busy making her happy i was being misserable. But shewas happy . Where was her love for me whe r e was her respect for me .
This is my partner with OCD…reading your blog just gave me a much needed outside look. I was ready to remove the dishwasher, so all the dishes would be in the sink.
Thank you for writing such a poignant perspective on an every day struggle. When we as couples realize that “dishes” or “rejection” by the other partner are typically about a deeper issue, I believe the struggle can be resolved. I’ve beaten myself to pieces over my choice to divorce my husband. It has forced me to take a microscope to myself. Pick my flaws to shreds. From my divorce I’ve been able to see all the ways I failed my husband, but now can accept he too failed me and I am not the only participant in the relationship to fail. Stay strong and carry on Matt. We can heal from divorce and make ourselves more aware, compassionate, intuitive, and healthy. For EVER relationship we will have for the remainder of our lives. ?
You got it… the day i left my ex husband and father of my children (who is a good man and still a friend) he gave me the option to tell him what to do… i told him that i was not his mother (our children were almost 4months and almost 2 years and i explained i had more than enough mothering to get on with) and he could make his own decision as an adult and my partner, though i did also say what i would like him to do… and he went his own way… it was one thing too much after so much struggle for him to choose his wife and family’s long term needs over his immediate gratification… i sometimes wish i could have put my foot down and told him what to do, but that would have made his actions meaningless as he hadn’t done them of his own accord…
I like this article, you raise a very good point. It is physically and emotionally exhausting when you have to constantly harp on someone to do something when they, as an adult, should already know to do it and should respect each other enough to want to do it in order to make the other happy. But, I think you are wrong in lumping every man as being just like you and every women as being just like your wife. You make it seem as if EVERY man out there is ignorant of others emotions and that EVERY women is over emotional. There are plenty of men who DO care about that glass by the sink. And there are plenty of women who are blind to their husbands emotional distress. Respecting one another is something that needs to be mutual and is unique for everyone.
What is important is that each partner take a second to learn what is important to each other and make an effort to be considerate and mindful.
I agree Ashley. The difficulty is being able to understand one’s partner’s emotional needs. I used to test my husband to see if he would do that which made me happy without my having to tell him. Needless to say he failed miserably. It wasn’t until I left him and could see things more clearly from a distance that I realized that men and women don’t always understand what it is that the other one is feeling. I finally learned to tell him in a nonconfrontational way what I needed from him emotionally and he is trying hard to change. His willingness to change is what brought us back together. Now the anger is gone and we are both able to show more respect and love.
My beautiful ex gf sent me this article which I respect. That being said, is very intresting when in the comments you see how people are trying to draw their on conclusion as to the article. “Omg xxxxx you have fail to see the point, the point is”. The point is that the gentlemen in this article didn’t just only made one mistake but many, is hard to make a woman that truly loves you, leave you… Now if you’re marry with a perfectionist and you’re not one, then my friend you are screw. Also marrying someone that thinks that love you is not the same as she or he loves you to the moon and back.
I wish people could understand that by asking for an specific respect you should give it back the same way. When you get marry you marry family, habbits that have being develop since 5 years old and much more. It’s about giving and receiving not receiving and receiving then receiving. The relationship is about two not just one. In many cases you fail to see how much someone is giving you in another areas but rather we want to be hard headed in just one simple area, to make a point and from there on it only becomes a competition about who is right and who is wrong.
Love each other and understand one another, stop trying to make sense but rather look for the balance.
A drinking glass left at a sink? Are you kidding? Apparently not. Several years ago, my wife of 30 years (at the time) had a small meltdown with me as she told me that she was tired of picking up my socks and shoes off the floor below my side of the bed. Now understandably, she had a point as she is the neater of the two of us and I had to admit that the sight did look messy. But I also told her this, “One of these days, you won’t be picking up after me at all.” It took about five seconds for the meaning of that to register. We’ve never had an argument about that subject again and I do pick up after myself. The point is, both of us had to learn a lesson from the other. Marriage is (I say this with absolute expertise) a partnership NOT a power struggle. Further, it cannot be too subtle in the critical areas.
Yes, men can do things, many things but we cannot read minds of others and that means we cannot read the minds of women and other men. Ladies, the biggest mistake you make is that you think you can change men through subtle inference. At best, that is possible in a very very very small number of relationships.
What I could not codify at the time I fell in love with my wife so many years ago was codified just within the last few years. LOVE is seeking the good of the other at the expense of the self without expectation of return as the love given by one must be voluntarily reflected back. It takes two unconditional “YESSES” to get to one Yes. Accordingly; one ‘yes’ and one ‘no’ is a ‘no.’
Two things are destructively at work here. 1) A Man’s inability to listen and 2) a Woman’s selfish desire to bend someone to their will through a subtle trap. And because of this, a marriage failed…not because of a drinking glass but pure stupidity. It begs the question whether the man and woman were ready to take on marriage in the first place.
The “drinking glass” is a metaphor for anything that represents what one partner sees as the other partner disregarding and worse, not caring about the first’s feelings. It could be your socks, his cup or her relegating your feelings to the rubbish bin (my own personal experience).
Aside from that, “FM”, you are spot on. Your 37 years have paid off in a great wisdom and understanding.
All I would add to the entire thing is that “he / she” or “husband / wife” are pretty interchangeable in both the original blog post and your reply. Many times in this day and age we find ourselves in what was once traditionally strictly male or female positions. Living inside those roles, we soon find out why the opposite sex often feels like they do. It’s the old adage “Walk a mile in my shoes before you judge” in action.
My 2nd marriage (I am 50 and have been married for 27 of those 50 years, between the two wives, so I speak from a little experience, too) recently ended. This time I was in the traditionally female role (caregiver, homemaker) and she was (of course) in was the male role (primary breadwinner, hates shopping lol). I understood greatly where she was coming from and still, the second marriage didn’t last half as long as the first! It takes two to tango is all I will say about that… Like “FM” said, y+y=Y and n+n=N but y+n still = N.
Ed Y. aka Larnot
It’s not about the drinking glass.
sounds like a straw, I am sorry, maybe they were ready in the first place but times and people change and not always together. Where ever you are now is it better or are you still trying to figure out what happened? There are better opportunities and you are experienced, go make a wonderful life because if you are divorced you need to move on.
You’re figuring it out. I’m just sorry that it has come after the divorce. Gary Smalley’s “If Only He Knew: What No Woman Can Resist”, which my husband read & he took to heart, was the start of saving our marriage. I was so curious about the changes in him that I asked if I could read it, and it was pretty spot on. I was so honored that he would tackle some tough subject matter and implement some changes that started to make a HUGE difference in our relationship. His actions spurned me to register us for a “Love & Respect” webinar which really started the understanding and healing for us. Incredibly powerful stuff. Our marriage is so much stronger, our communication so much better, and our laughter is almost daily. We are a team, and sometimes it’s us and them against the world, baby! One of the sweetest things that he’s said to me lately is: “I can’t wait to get out of here [work] and get home to you.” Wow!
You always have to remember that marriages have seasons just like the calendar year, and you have to be on guard during those winters to not let those times linger on too long.
Respectfully disagree with some of what FM wrote in the last paragraph of his comment above.
What is so interesting here, as in almost all such discussions, is how woman is complaining that the “man needs to change”. Oh really? Are you perfect. Is your husband complaining all the time, or even half as much as you? Maybe look in the mirror. If you have a husband that’s not nagging you all the time, maybe he would like the same courtesy.
And of course, the women assume that because the man isn’t complaining, that it’s proof that they’re not doing anything to bother him. They don’t seem to consider that they may irritate him greatly, but he just keeps in to himself. To many men, avoiding a fight is the highest priority, far more important than the numerous things that our wives do that drive us crazy.
And of course, if the genders were reversed, if the husband browbeat his meek wife into catering to his whims, then he would be considered an abusive jerk.
So much BS around seriously.
And people are not getting the point. Actually, everyone is right, everyone is having their POINT.
But, instead of focusing on talking, communicating and respecting and loving each other, we just assuming…. assuming and expecting the other HALF should/must/have to know, and DO what I … What I…. FFS…
What do I want? What do you want?
I expect you to do ABC, you expect me to do XYZ. If we don’t communicate there is nothing else left. If we make a compromise, I’ll do AYBXZC and you can XBCAYZ.
However, I’m good at A&B, not good at C & D, and have no idea about the rest, but I can help US out to make it easier and better.
Also, If I’m not good at the rest or C & D, don’t EXPECT that I’ll do it better than you are. If you don’t like it when I’ll do it my way, you have to do it yourself….. or….. be very, very patient and calm and respectful and patient again. We guys, will get there one day.
We can learn.
We know how to do things. As we know you can do them too.
I’m not expecting you to do my A&B, and for some silly/serious reason to prove it to me that you can do it better than me.
Everyone has their needs and their wants. Everyone is entitled to them. But, do you respect your partners needs and wants?
Interesting is, when my ex cooked something and I didn’t liked it, I was silent and ate it all without any problems.
But when I “helped” her in my way, it was all wrong, and I wasn’t helpful and I wasted her time helping her out.
So the confidence is going down, down…down. And eventually, EGO goes too.
At the beginning we are in love – unconditionally, just because. Same is little kids – UNCONDITIONAL love. They are not looking for reasons, they love us, they are feeling it.
As time goes by, we are looking or we tend to look for reasons and setting up conditions WHY… Why to love the other partner.
And simple – JUST because, is not enough.
The simple warm feeling in your throat, or stomach, or – just because I feel that way towards the other half. Is not enough.
And then, we want something back, because we gave something out. So we must get something back!!
So much BS around seriously. To waste our time, our precious little time we have here, with these “big/little/important-not” things.
No-one has set expiry date on their life, so don’t waste it with BS.
Make love and enjoy it.
WOW!!! Thank you, so much for sharing. Did she really leave you?
Not over dishes! But yes. We’ve been unmarried co-parents for about three years. It’s all working out okay. 🙂
Thank you for reading.
This comes down to a relatively simple calculation: nobody wins here.
Parties really have to meet each other half way, especially over such ridiculously trivial and menial tasks. Should John Doe have put his dishes away or made more of an effort around the house? Most definitely. Clearly it matters to Jane Doe. However, it doesn’t stop there. Should Jane lighten up? Without question. If you’re about to divorce someone over a menial task being missed then I think it’s high time to change your perspective (a little background, I appreciate Jane’s perspective because I’m as organized and as clean as she). Experiencing this with my roommates I’ve had to evaluate how important it is for me to scale this mountain and demand they change their habits over my expectations. The fact remains that even if it is “one half” of the equation, that part is just as equally important as your own – perhaps John did just want to reuse his glasses? Perhaps he was just a lazy shlum – it matters little. It’s apart of who he is and demanding he change with such grave ultimatums is about as juvenile as the chores in question being handled in a lax fashion. At the end of the day if you get angry at such things you have to ask yourself “who asked you to?”.
You marry people for both the good and the bad – perhaps more time in between dating and living together should have been allowed for if something so simple was able to bring down a marriage. If you know such simple things bug you… trial out living together before you propose/say yes. Otherwise, put some work in (and not just from the perspective of personally doing all the chores if they matter so much).
Of course you’re right, Zack. We’re supposed to have ALL of this stuff hashed out long before we’re married. The problem is that no one knows the right questions to ask, because we’re young and our problems when we’re young are not even close to the problems when we’re married 5-10 years.
Since none of us our psychic, and no one talks to us about these things, we’re usually flying blind.
All of this stuff is rooted in open and honest dialogue.
In the context of a dish by the sink, it’s about saving broken marriages.
In the context of a young person pre-marriage? It needs to be about people telling each other the truth, and having civil adult conversations with out another LONG before agreeing to combine resources and vow forever to one another.
Thanks for reading and commenting. It’s appreciated.
Oh I wholeheartedly agree. Everything is in hindsight, sadly.
Boy Zack, you really missed the point! “It’s not about the dishes!” Its not about what thing you did or didn’t do. It’s about respecting that it is important to your partner and if you can’t do something for that partner because it’s important to them then it shows you don’t respect them enough to move out of your comfort zone to make them happy. Again it’s about respect. It may seem trivial to you, but that doesn’t mean it’s trivial to them and you should respect that!
You really hit this on the head in so many places. For me, it’s not that I am trying to get my husband to “bend to my will” when I ask him to do certain things. I am trying to get him to understand that in doing those things, he is helping me so that my day isn’t so stressful. (I work full time, go to school full time, take care of our 4 kids…all while he goes to school and enjoys his video games). I don’t want to be his mother, I want to be his partner. When he refuses or blatantly doesn’t do them just to upset me…I am not angry that he doesn’t want to do them..I am hurt that he doesn’t feel like I am worth the few minutes of trouble it would cause him.
Amanda, you work full time and go to school full time? Therein lies the problem, add travel time to each and the day is done. When do you sleep, you are not his wife, you are his room mate! I think the kids are either grown up or looking after themselves.
Oh Amanda, you say it so well! My husband and I have been married for 28 years. Every time he leaves one of the cupboard doors open in the kitchen, I die a little. It’s something that takes less than a second of his time. He doesn’t even have to stop walking to push it shut. And it makes me feel like he is doing it to intentionally upset me–especially since he is (and has admitted to being) very “passive aggressive.” For 28 years I have tried to gently remind him that doors and drawers left open make me crazy. Yes, I could just get over it, and I go through phases of just not saying anything and doing it myself, thinking that eventually he’ll notice and start doing it.
It’s not just those things of course. There are things like me being the one who has to make arrangements for car repairs and handle every single problem that arises whether financial or with the kids.
Someone above (a man) made the comment that his wife wouldn’t always have him around to leave his socks and shoes on the floor. Three months ago my husband had major open heart surgery. Before his surgery, I tried to make sure all the car maintenance and repairs were dealt with in case something went wrong. And when he left it all to me to do, I said to him, “If you die, you are going to be in Heaven. You won’t be the one left here to deal with two special needs kids and no help. If you really cared about me, you would be doing these things so that if something does happen, I won’t be left with two broken down cars and no help.” I’m still not sure he understands! I do know I won’t leave him over it–my mother tells me he will leave me because I am too picky and nag. But I also know that I always felt growing up that no one loved me and I was unimportant. And that has been reinforced throughout my marriage by things that he sees as stupid and petty.
I know I am miserable to live with. I realize that I don’t deserve to have someone care about me–no one ever has. But it does hurt so much. And the author of this article has figured it out, sadly, too late.
Dear Debbie, you’re wrong, you do deserve to have someone care about you! Slowly we can heal from our childhood/life wounds (by grieving, by gaining insights, by doing whatever you can and must to make your life a little bit better/a little less bad and so on and so on) and our lives will improve. Either the people around us who’re not treating us well will start to treat us better or we’ll leave/avoid them/they’ll leave/avoid us and we’ll surround ourselves with people who do. For what it’s worth, I’m sorry for the pain you’ve suffered. You didn’t deserve it. I offer to you and all your inner children a virtual hug! Please do whatever you can and must to care for yourself.
exactly! we handle so much for ourselves and for them… the least they can do is put away a simple dish. like come on. its not that hard to do. just do it because you love us. put away your stubbornness and ego and just do it for love.
Unfortunately, what many spouses fail to understand until far too late is that the real issue is control. “I like things done a certain way, and you are not doing them my way, so I will decide that you do not care or love me the way you should, or could. After all, it only takes 10 seconds to get your dish in the dish washer. I just proved my point how little you truly love me.”
So she sets up a straw man that she quickly knocks down with her logic, yet her logic keeps her from realizing that the same 10 seconds could show her husband that she loves him in spite of his messy ways. If it is “all about me” then he has to step to your little set of what creates love and what does not, ignoring many of the major reasons why you chose to love him in the first place. Or did you chose to love him?
Love places no conditions and seeks the best interest of another in good times and in bad. When that man is holding your hand in hospital as they give you your shots and prep you for removing the brain tumor; when that man loves your children immensely like no one else can do, and sticks by your side as you grow old and grey together, it is then that you will learn that no matter how many dishes you picked up, underwear and clothes on the floor, whiskers in the sink, catching him looking at a naked woman on tv, none of that matters when love is allowed to live itself out in a marriage and not selfishly truncated before it really even blossoms. In time he will try to please you because he loves you.
I think it becomes a control issue when one spouse fails to recognize the other is a person with feelings, wants, and needs.
Along with lack of commitment
Woman, at least devoted women it takes alot to bring you to divorce because you want your marriage to work..
If there is too much dominance and not enough BALANCE (love, respect, understanding) it’s a recipe for a disaster..
And being married myself and a full time mother.. We understand the workload and days can be rough, but what we don’t understand is when that and separation from your family due to sports, or etc..take priority over spending time with your family and building your relationship with your children, or just enjoying our company.
And sometimes believe it or not being a SAHM can be rough too. And we need some recoupe time just to help get us through the upcoming week.. It’s the little things that become big because we can’t hold your hand, we expect our spouses to take responsibility and learn to balance their life.
Sports, video games and etc are fine every day after work if your single or a little bit daily to ease the stress if your in a relationship, but if anything consumes you so much your family/girlfriend will end up on the sidelines and that’s where relationships fail.
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My husband did this and I explained that his leaving the glass was like saying, here put this in the dishwasher for me. Kinda like when he leaves the empty milk cartoon on the counter just 5 steps from the recycle out in the garage. I know he’s thinking I’ll get to it, but really he won’t before I do. So hence the feeling of a lack of care. Great article, but it’s more than just not feeling like you don’t care, it’s feeling like you want us to do it for you. Not caring x2
My husband has since stopped doing either. In fact he’s gotten much better about helping albums the house after 10 years of marriage. But he still has to work on seeing the work. Much luck in your next relationship!
What an insight. It’s sad that we as women don’t always get it either!! I’ll be married 50 years is Sept. and believe you me its a lot of give and take. But, it’s all about respect. I used to tell my hubby that when a woman starts to bitch you better listen up because it’s big for them. Thanks for the insight!! Good luck with your next marriage.
Very interesting read !
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This is literally the best article / blog post I have ever read and I’m 58 years old and “happily “married. The quotation marks are for all the times I have retreated from an argument about nothing because I could not bear repeating why his small ( but huge to me) actions hurt me over and over. I just seen this to him as it spells out exactly what I have been trying to say unsuccessfully for years! Guess who sent it to me? My very wise 27 year later daughter. Thanks so much for being so smart and enlightened! Even if it cost you your marriage, you have the insight and self awareness now to make you soar!
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What if the husband makes the dinner and the wife has a night stand full of dirty glasses? Is she still justified to complain because the husband didn’t do the dishes after making dinner the night before (when the wife is a total slob)?
I married a complete slob, and I’m the neat freak. I love my slob unconditionally, dirty clothes spewed across the house and all. We have been together happily almost 28 years in a blissful marriage. Sometimes you have to look at what is really important. My complete slob is a Godly man who possesses the utmost of character. What do you value?
Your husband is a blessed man, Proverbs 31. My wife and I are only at 20 years, but are happily walking through the years together with the same attitude you have expressed here. I can’t imagine it any other way.
It’s so nice to hear someone talk about a loving relationship where people overlook the relatively unimportant to focus on “what is really important”. My wife & I have been together, happily married, for almost 36 years, and still loving each other. They say you have to love through the good and bad. It would take quite some time to list all the bad (health problems, etc), but we’re still together, and still loving each other. God bless you.
Reblogged this on DisabledandDivorced and commented:
Excellent piece for anyone dating, in a marriage, separated, divorced, or any individual learning to treat others with greater respect and compassion.
Yup. Nailed it.
I like that this guy got to the deep issue of respecting his wife. It takes a lot of self-reflection for a man to understand that little things like this can really hurt a woman. But he never mentioned a small but important factor. Though women might feel deeply saddened/disrespected it’s also a simple fact that if you leave a glass by the sink (and say you’ll use it later) you probably will forget about it and simply end up not washing it. Similarly, you’d leave a glass there until company comes? Well what if that is a week (or longer) from now?
Basically it means the woman ends up picking up after you because she is not going to wait around for you to forget to wash it or leave it for a week until guests arrive. That would only make her more angry.
So, once again, I think it’s awesome this guy took the time to write all this and bring up the very important issue of respect. But he’s missing the simpler part of it: she just doesn’t want to pick up after him – because it’s very probable that’s how the situation would end otherwise.
I could not agree more!
I would like to suggest that it’s not because your wives are “neater” than you that they care about the glass or the shoes and socks on the floor. This isn’t a battle of who wants the house looking tidier.
I suggest that those items left lying around the house give one clear message to your wives which is this:
“I think it is your job to clean up after me because I am more important than you. ”
When you hear it like that – which is how I heard it – then is it any wonder she left you?
Maybe he didn’t want her to clean up after him. Its her compulsion to do so and she’s taking it out on him. He’s probably perfectly happy to leave his socks and shoes there and it is his side of the bed after all.
Great article. Wish my husband of 30 years has learned this before we divorced. But I was also dealing with narcissism and such..I also think women perpetuate this in their sons. I have 3 boys and am trying to change that attitude of “doing for” all the time..hoping they will be a better husband. Marriage is teamwork for sure.
Okay, I highly admire and respect this post and the thoughtfulness that went into it. I read your defense first, then read through this (yes, the whole thing). I’m not a TLDR kind of gal, and I wanted to give you (and your critics) the benefit of the doubt before I came to my own conclusion. My conclusion, as a wife who has asked her husband to load the dishes into the dishwasher, is this: This is a good start to a longer conversation.
I think it misses some larger social and cultural problems putting pressure on marriages, not the least of which is the expectation that woman SHOULD be the domestic caretakers. That we should be emotionally invested in housework and caretaking and that men shouldn’t (or by default, aren’t). If both partners (regardless of gender or sexual orientation) were invested in the home as much as the workplace, I think we’d be better off. But that’s my HO, as a working wife and mother.
In the meantime, this is a conversation that NEEDED started, and I’m glad you had the courage to start it, even though it meant putting yourself in the line of criticism from those who didn’t read it or did read it but didn’t agree with you. I thank you.
This will contribute to saving my marriage. I read it, felt like I understood him better. Then read it to him, and now (I think) he understands me better. Thanks!
This article is a heap of stink. A woman divorces a man because of him not putting a glass away makes her feel insecure and not loved. It may make her feel that way but to the point of no return and a broken marriage? Get real. She is either delusional or there’s a whole lot going on that’s she’s not willing to discuss. I’m going to assume it’s the latter.
D:
I disagree with your statement “This article is a heap of stink”, I think it shows a decent writer/blogger’s ongoing understanding of a very “one sided situation” that he admits:
“It seems so unreasonable when you put it that way: My wife left me because sometimes I leave dishes by the sink.
It makes her seem ridiculous; and makes me seem like a victim of unfair expectations.”
Obviously his partner didn’t discuss things through with him, possibly each time a discussion started things were discounted or possibly ridiculed. When true listening doesn’t happen, talking becomes a narcissistic exercise in “I’m right, you’re wrong”.
Emotional Logic is a term I dislike, it makes it sound like Classical Philosophy’s Rational Logic classes train people to think “properly” and if it is “emotional”, then it can’t be logical. But Philosophy is a teaching of thought and understanding of truth – Emotion has some thought behind it, and clearly a lot of truth too. In my mind they are equal in importance in a human being, but we deal with society in more “rational” terms while we deal with relationships in more “emotional” terms. Yet emotional logic still seems an oxymoron of a term.
When you realize that quantifying every little detail of a significant other’s neglect or disrespect is really nit-picky, and ask why they would be so picky, you should ask yourself ‘does this really bother them that much, do they really equate this with personal disrespect and disregard?” Or you lose that significant other.
Obviously the blogger didn’t realize this, or ask himself the question before the emotional investment had already gone bust. You cannot change a significant other’s mind with “pure reason” any more than you can with “pure emotion”, but while there is some salvageable emotional investment between two people, asking that question of oneself or reading articles such as this blog may – MAY – be the insight that proves life-changing!
I find this article to be enlightening in that manner, and definitely not a “heap of stink”. I was only sorry the blogger didn’t air out more their issues, he chose one that paints his S.O. in a bad light and then shows how this little insignificant and ridiculous issue had much deeper meaning his significant other. Too little, too late. But a great read and insightful.
A person divorces another person because they aren’t connecting and communicating. It’s that simple.
Exactly
I appreciate the author attempting to educate other men. As a woman partnered to a man and as a therapist I find that men are more resistant to change and taking the other’s point of view. There is a baseline level of entitlement that our culture hands men. My daughters have noticed this in college after coming out of an all girls’ highschool that the guys in class present their answer like it is correct and the only answer, whereas girls answering questions tend to take the stance that they are ‘perhaps’ correct. There are also a lot less men than women in therapy or in self-help groups, because they don’t feel like they need to grow and change and often look to the women in their lives to help finish raising them. So, thank you. Your blog is spot on. We need more men educating other men.
Of course, there are also a great deal of women quick to trivialize the concerns of many men as well. As a male rape survivor, I’ve learned that a great deal of the stigma against us comes directly from advocates and incompetent therapists who are hung up on societal roles and gender policing. The response is to double-down on the stigma, myths and trivialization. Acknowledging that men have wounds too, means that some people have not been adequately serving their clientele. The problem of men not seeking therapy is far more complicated than “they don’t feel like they need to grow.”
Reading these comments as they continue to come in makes me so grateful for my wife. Let me tell you why:
Many of these comments are women who are frustrated over this very thing expressing that they are glad that some man finally gets it. The general consensus is that most men need to understand their wives’ (or female partners) feelings better and somehow change so that their wives feel better and the relationship is improved.
A couple of categories of dissenting comments among the women include:
A) Those women where the roles are reversed.
This indicates that how a woman feels about the situation of whether a man cleans up after himself very well or not is not morally objective. It’s rather morally relative. When, in the majority case, the woman feels put out by her husband’s slovenly conduct and berates him for it, it would stand to reason that a man feels as though she is dismissing his own moral sensibility. That doesn’t make a man feel as though his wife respects him. But men aren’t wired to express that kind of emotional pain. Instead, most men are wired to respond with anger. Most men don’t actually intend to make their wives or partners feel bad. But what happens is that women end up falsely accusing their husbands of having bad intentions. That’s a more objective moral basis than the level of cleanliness of a house.
B) Women who strive to serve their husbands regardless of their husbands cavalier attitude toward the cleanliness of the house because they actually love their husbands.
I say “actually love their husbands” because sacrificial living is what I recognize true love as being. To be sure, true love isn’t fair. Ideally it is fair if both husband and wife try to sacrifice, recognize the sacrifice of each other, and each admit that they haven’t sacrificed perfectly for the other. But it’s usually lopsided or, more accurately, seems that way. Sadly this is the exception rather than the rule. Our culture has become rather self-centered, narcissistic, self-entitled, or whatever you want to call it. And it applies to both men and women. But it’s also why I’m grateful for my wife. I don’t sacrifice perfectly for her, but I try. She doesn’t sacrifice perfectly for me, but I know she tries. My job is not to keep track of what she is supposed to do for me to make me feel good about the relationship. My job is to give of myself in pursuit of her best good, even if it seems like I’m giving unfairly. However, I can also see that she tries to do that too. This is the kind of attitude that is sorely lacking in this discussion, and I give hearty kudos to those handful of commenters who have mentioned this attitude in their own marriages and relationships.
Perhaps I can shed some light on why this is a great example of marital degradation because I am one of those women who sometimes feels like my head is going to explode over the glass by the sink. No glass is worth a marriage, but a lifetime of imbalance is. My husband is a 21st Century man and does far more than his father ever did in the way of household chores. But as a 21st Century, working mother, I still do FAR more than he does and therefore have far less personal time. So if I have spent a half day of my week cleaning the entire house so we can manage to get through another hectic 21st Century week, DON’T put the glass by the sink, put it in the dishwasher. If you don’t, I do feel disrespected. And before you know, one glass multiplies into spending an entire day of my week cleaning. And 30 years later, I’m exhausted and just ready to take care of me for a change and I leave. My husband is my best friend and I love him dearly, so I won’t be leaving him 30 years later. But the thought crosses my mind for at least a second when I see that dang glass!
I’m a SAHD for 5 years, married for 19. My wife is the type that gets bothered by things then voices her concern then expects me to honor her requests. She states that if I truly love her then I would honor these very minor requests. So I’ve changed because I want her to know that I love her. However, it never stops. I changed the way I drink water at night because my gulping annoyed her, I change the way I set the table, I make the bed every day, I don’t let the garbage overflow, I am quick to change light bulbs, I lest out the mail, I put her dry cleaning in a certain spot, I care for the 2 dogs, I get her coffee on the weekends. The point is, these were all “little things”!that she requested that I do, and if I fail to do these things then I’m selfish & thoughtless because I’m doing things that I know drive her crazy. It’s like a bottomless pit that I keep shoveling- there’s no end. One I master a wish that she has- she moves to something else. So what’s going on here? I agree with the previous guy. This is about power.
YOU LIVE IN YOUR HOUSE. how is expecting you to help out with household chores unreasonable? do you really think taking out the trash, changing lightbulbs, and taking care of your pets is too much to ask? sounds like you don’t want a wife; you want a housekeeper.
This is why I drink straight out of the carton. Never a dirty glass.
Nobody’s perfect, and people don’t change very much, if at all. It’s up to the individual to decide if the faults of their spouse or significant other can be overlooked and the benefits of the relationship outweigh the shortcomings of the partner. If faults like this have become problematic and difficult to accept especially early on in the relationship, then I suggest this isn’t the right relationship for the offended one to be in. Love isn’t about nit picking over silly quirks and idiosyncrasies.
Thanks for reading, Renee.
People don’t change because habits become hardwired into our subconsciousness until we form new, better habits. And because that’s a hard, uncomfortable thing that we instinctively reject because we like comfort and familiarity, people have trouble breaking bad habits (smoking, biting fingernails, snacking late at night) and forming new good ones (exercise, healthy eating, mindful meditation/prayer, etc.)
It’s not that people don’t change because we’re all stuck being whatever we are.
People don’t change because it requires honest, uncomfortable growth to form new habits and make better choices, and many people aren’t willing to make painful sacrifices when there’s an easier or more pleasureable choice.
If a person wakes up in the morning 100% satisfied with their life, then it makes perfect sense that they should just keep doing whatever.
But if a person wakes up and wishes they felt better, or weighed less, or had more skills, or possessed more knowledge, or felt spiritually whole, or felt intimately connected to their spouse and/or children, then I submit they OWE it to their future selves to get to work on forming new habits.
People can and do change.
And considering how shitty everyone is at marriage, in the context of relationships, people SHOULD change.
You have to wake up in the morning and decide who you’re going to be each day.
Most people decide to be the same person they were yesterday. And that’s fine, I guess.
But it tends to foster divorce in marriages. I haven’t met anyone yet who had fun doing that.
Thank you for reading, Renee. I appreciate the substance of your comment which is about loving even when it’s inconvenient, and accepting others’ shortcomings and being grateful for all their positive qualities.
No question, it’s fundamental to sustainable relationships.
Rest assured there’s more to the story than dishwashing habits.
Hi Matt thanks for the quick reply. I feel as I should clarify, when I say people do not change, what I mean is our personality doesn’t really change..yes most of us mature, become wiser, perhaps more confident, adapt a healthier lifestyle as you mentioned.
I know who I am… this is me. I have been completely honest to my significant other as to who I really am, my likes, dislikes. I have revealed my soul. I wake up each morning, comfortable being me, who I am, I do not wake up and decide who I am going to be on any particular day… It is understood that I am going to be myself. I cannot be someone else for someone else’s sake, as I would be untrue to myself, and doing both of us an injustice. I have faults, as well as my partner…as we all do. I love him as he is. He has strengths and weaknesses, he is better at some things as opposed to others, same as I am. We don’t like the same things, nor share the same tastes, but most importantly we love each other. Just because I love him does not mean that I own him…nobody can own another person, married or not. It is not about control. love is about freedom, not captivity, and understanding that I am not in control, God is. I am grateful for all of time we have had together.
Thanks for sharing Matt. I can soooo, relate to your wife, but……
It takes two to make a marriage. I would be overjoyed if my husband’s used glasses even made it to the kitchen let alone near the sink. I have found them all over the house usually with dried milk or soda in the bottom. To top that, he seems to think that if a glass has sat for longer that the length of a meal with liquid in the bottom, then it’s dirty and cannot be reused and heaven forbid that you mix different liquids. The water left in the glass after rinsing it out dilutes and changes the flavor of the new beverage.
I have to laugh when I think back to the time when I went to visit relatives for two weeks and he decided to throw a dinner party with some of his coworkers. The dishes set for at least a week with dried crusty food on them, but being the thoughtful guy that he is, he decided to run them through the dishwasher before I arrived home. The night before I was due home, we were discussing the arrival time for my flight when he cleared his throat and said, “You know, dishwashers really don’t get dried on food off the dishes. I now understand why it takes you so long to load the dishwasher”. Ding, ding, ding. Give the man a prize.
I came to realize, unlike your wife, that dishes were just not his thing. They didn’t even register as a blip on his radar and never would. And even though for me, the glass equates to love and respect, I had a choice: to continue being miserable or find a different way.
My solution was to get a membership to Costco or Sam’s Club (I actually have both) and switch to using paper cups. I realize that we will have probably killed a small grove of trees in our lifetime, but I can do my part by planting more trees. Besides, my marriage is worth it. In June, we will have been married for 25 years. Of course we both know that the dirty glass is just an illustration of the complex issues that challenge a marriage over the years.
Sorry, but the wife seems a bit ridiculous. Messy or not, it is *just a glass*. The wife needed to realize that life is messy, that no one and nothing is perfect. When she remarries, her next husband will not be perfect either. He will leave a drop of water on the counter, or a dish here or there. I bet *she does it too*. And she will divorce the next guy too over something stupid like a sock or a glass. And she will end up lonely and miserable, because she makes huge mountains over things that sane, emotionally-adjusted people do not see as big deals. Sorry, but this is the truth.
you clearly missed the point. Or maybe you didn’t read it. The glass is symbolic. It is not the glass per se. ugh. People…
Yes, it is the glass. If the glass is a symbol of anything, it is a symbol of the wife’s mental illness, which I would say is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and Borderline Personality Disorder. If the wife could not get over something so small, or learn to deal with small annoyances in life, then she is mentally ill. There is no question about this.
Like I said, Matthew, although this is futile, as you have made your mind up that it is the wife’s fault, if you read the article you would realize that it was an accumulation of things that lead up to the problems they had…like missing time to watch golf. You use awful big words for someone with such a narrow focus.
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I don’t put my glass in the dishwasher. I wash it in the sink. We don’t have a dishwasher.
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You wrote “I don’t care if a glass is sitting by the sink unless guests are coming over” and “…a glass being by the sink when no one is going to see it anyway”. I’m sure you didn’t really believe that guests were more important than your wife and that she was “no one”. But that message is something many people convey to their spouses and families, that outsiders are more important and deserve more consideration than the people who live with us and love us. It just adds to the pain of feeling disrespected and unheard.
Yes. The phenomenon of caring more about the opinions, perceptions, and feelings of strangers over those closest to us.
It’s insane that so many of us do this. But so many of us do this. It’s a marriage and parent-child relationship killer.
Couldn’t have said it better! Awesome article!
You know, it’s funny. I get mad at him about leaving clothes by the side of the bed, you’re totally right. Well, more that he doesn’t put them in the laundry hamper, really. But, I also had a revelation in the car on my drive home one day. I knew that I had a choice, I could let these little things destroy my relationship, or I could find a way to let them go. So far it’s been working. I told him once that if clothes didn’t make it in the hamper I wouldn’t wash them. He didn’t believe me… and I didn’t wash his clothes. Simple as that. Now when I pick up after him, which is rarely, he knows that I could just as well choose not to, and he’s usually the one who does it. So yeah, it takes two to tango.
Personally, that’s such a small thing to end a good marriage on. Isn’t marriage about love? She sounds like she needs to grow up a bit and base her marriage on its value not on petty little things.
you probably should have read the article.
She did Kim. Not everyone wants to be totally controlled by all the little neuroses of their spouse.
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Love this a million times over. Thank you so much for sharing this beautiful insight 🙂
This was a nice note, Holly. Thank you. 🙂
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I want to thank you for naming my feelings. I understood much more about my own feelings and frustration. Thank you, again! 🙂
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TODAY I washed the dishes
1. Put away yesterdays
2. collect from around house
3.soak cooking pans
4.wash dishes
5. wash cooking pans
6. wash cutting board in now empty sinks
7. throw out/consolidate food in fridge
8.wash containers used
9.wipe down inside of fridge
10.wipe down counters and table
11.wipe outside of stainless steel trash can as well as interior lid
12.put away dishes
13.soft scrub sink interiors and grates
14.Twinkled 2 copper cooking pans
15.Sorted potato/garlic/onion bin
16.washed and dried bin and replaced pot/gar/onion
17.cleaned water bowl and mat it sits on at pet station
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Reblogged this on stillsweetwater and commented:
Spot on.
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Interesting … but true. Women need to feel appreciated and considered when they do chores related to “men drop offs”. How would men feel if they consistently picked up after “woonmen drop offs” … while asking:honey, could you please NOT do that? It’s a great inconsideration towards either a woman or a man. Think about it.
Your wife’s petty and you’re justifying it to your own detriment.
I’m so glad I’m not the only person who thinks organ transplants are like the most amazing thing EVER!!
Never thought of that
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wow…. my god thank you matt for this enlightening little article, and really just for reaffirming my prevailing sentiment on this matter: i am never getting married. and i would advise all men to follow suit. i mean seriously, i cant imagine why anyone would willingly subject themselves to an eternal sentence of mind numbing, ball busting torture. why?
what is there to gain from this?
to all married men out there: i am sorry and i feel your pain, but you made that choice. have fun getting nagged at for petty trivialities for the rest of your life. meanwhile i will continue to leave the toilet seat up, eat my ice cream straight out of the carton, and yes leave my beer drinking glass by the sink to be washed by me at a time that i deem convenient.
cheers.
Not all women nag. But more importantly, do you remember the line from As Good as it Gets, “you make me want to be a better man?”. Some of us are lucky enough to have wives that love us in such a way that it makes us want to put the glass in the sink even though we think it’s stupid. It isn’t important to me so what do I care? Besides, she does things for me all the time that I’m sure she thinks are stupid.
Thank you Jeff. I envy your wife 🙂
That’s awesome brother. Some of us had the other kind though. Glad for you and your wife though.
I applaud you. I seriously wish that all men who are incapable of growing out of their selfish, self centered ego centric “I dont’ care if anyone else is happy but myself” stage would be this honest and never marry. Instead of taking the love and effort of someone who is willing to invest their “happily ever after” into them and destroying them because they have the audacity to want you to be considerate of them.
congrats.
Well said.
On the other side of the coin, I wish more women could find/make their own happiness, rather than depending on their husband/relationship for it.
Why does so much of marriage apparently require one side to sacrifice their own happiness for the happiness of “us”?
“We” want a Victorian house filled with fine furniture, which naturally means that I have to abandon my old furniture/decorations that doesn’t fit “our” decorative taste.
“I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.
I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time.”
and later
“Men are perfectly capable of doing a lot of these things our wives complain about. What we are not good at is being psychic, or accurately predicting how our wives might feel about any given thing because male and female emotional responses tend to differ pretty dramatically.”
In other words, she wanted you to be psychic, to read her mind, to mystically understand her priorities, goals, and standards. That’s what’s unreasonable. You DID “figure out all of the things that need done, and devise [your] own method of task management.” The problem is that your definition of what needed done and how to do it didn’t match hers, and she wasn’t willing to flex or compromise.
Have a great , lonely old age by yourself. You deserve it if you think it’s a waste of time to show respect by doing something as simply as keeping your home tidy. Be the slob you apparently want to be and live happily ever after with your dirty dishes.
agree with anon.
signed, HORACE
GOD OF WISDOM.
rst
hugh jazz, on behalf of all who may have risked marrying you, thank you oh so much for removing yourself from the pool.
To the author – great article!. Our friends – male and female – have passed it around as a great way to communicate this exact situation to our spouses. It opened my eyes to how my husband feels – thanks!
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Every women is different in her marital expectations. I’m happy with my husband bringing his dishes to the sink and puting his dirty clothes in the laundry after shower. I’m happy to deal with the dishes and clothes after this point. However if I expected him to put dishes in the dishwasher and to wash his own clothes I guess I would be upset that he doesn’t. I find that my husband looks after me and I take joy out of looking after him as well. Just because I don’t expect the dishes to go straight in the dishwasher does not mean we don’t have a partnership quiet the opposite we have both made sacrifices over the years because we love each other and want to be together for ever.
“Sacrifices.” Funny that whenever I felt like I was “sacrificing” for her, I discovered I was living against my nature…. This should have been ironed out before, not after or during, we were married. When I got what I wanted, which was something extremely simple, I never felt drained of energy and never felt I was sacrificing a thing.
good God woman, please have a talk with my wife. She’s the glass by the sink wife, who is willing to end a marriage over it.
That’s a beautiful statement and we cherish caring for each other too, but I won’t do his laundry as a matter of feminist principal (which is part of why he loves me).
Thank you for the thoughtful and well written article. It helped me to think about what I really mean when I ask him to put the glass in the dishwasher. I now have another way to ask nicely. I know he may not get it – but maybe he will. To the haters and the bashers – thank you for removing yourselves from the gene pool and not getting married. Please, please, please do not father and raise children – the world needs more men like the author and a whole bunch less of you.
I feel the same way. I don’t argue about toilet seats and the direction of toilet paper. But there are things that I DID get agitated on and we were constantly fighting; and, then one day we talked. We didn’t talk, however, face to face. We talked in a run-on letter. That day changed our marriage. That was 10 years ago. Is our marriage without arguments…HELL NO! We will be 90 and still arguing. That is just us. We love to debate, we are passionate about our beliefs. But we worked out the differences in that letter. Instead of running around the bush, we actually hit the bush. We made compromises on the things that bugged the both of us. It bothered him that I would come in after him and finish things in the kitchen that he didn’t do. He felt inadequate. I didn’t want to hear “do it yourself”. We compromised. I told him that these were things that I liked, he doesn’t do them, and I don’t expect him to do them. That if they are important to me, then I should do them. So he no longer gets mad when I come in after he is done with dishes and wash behind the sink and straighten things. I told him that I was happy he did the dishes at all. That saved me to get other things done. We had to learn that we weren’t each other’s enemy, we were each other’s partner. We were friends, lovers, parents. WE were a team.
The world does NOT need more wussy metrosexual men. You ladies think that’s what you want but then you complain when you get it. “Most women set out to change a man, and when they change him they don’t like him.” – Marlene Dietrich
Too right
You don’t get everything! If the wife needs the glass put away to feel loved and respected she doesn’t have the right to constantly play that card, if you loved me you would take me on a nice date once and a while, if you loved me we would go on vacations together, if you loved me we would live in a bigger house, if you loved me we would have a dog. I would happily do any of these things but I can’t do all of the things she needs to be done to feel loved all of the time. So if I leave a glass wherever I leave it shouldn’t we just openly pick what she gets, it’s not just her getting and me giving
I’ve probably read this 5 times now. Thank you for sharing this. Women are difficult to understand, especially so when they don’t or can’t explain something that’s bothering them. So how are men supposed to know what’s wrong til it’s too late? This post is so on point. I struggle with the same issues with my husband, I totally get it.
I guess I go to a job that’s very dangerous everyday…I buy her whatever she wants…I love my kids more then life…I take care of her family and love then or at least respect them….I’m damaged trying to provide for my family… I need physical affection to keep me going….sometimes I go weeks and think to myself why the f do I care so much… Now I think maybe I should do the dishes … But I’m to tire, stubborn or stupid to care or maybe I’d just like to feel appreciated to
You deserve recognition for what you do and how much you care. You shouldn’t have to do the dishes to get just a little of that. If you’re not getting it now, it’s unlikely you will unless maybe you try talking to your significant other about it. Bet careful to use “I feel” statements instead of blaming or resentful dialogue. I.E.- “I feel sad (hurt, unappreciated) when I feel that no one appreciates the contribution and/or hard and dangerous work I do to support our family; I would like to hear it, sometimes”. It may be a good idea to start the conversation explaining how much you appreciate and love your wife for all the things (be specific about some things!) she does for you and the family. It’s a two way street and not unreasonable to have these expectations of each other. It becomes a problem when either or both partners fail to recognize or care that it is an important need to the other.
On the other hand, if you partner just does not care… Well, if you are young and able enough to leave and make it on your own while still taking for your obligations, my opinion is to do so. I’m not saying just give up, but only you know how she really is and if working on it is worthwhile. If you’ve approached it before and she brushes you off, dismissing your feelings it may be too late.
Personally, I’m 50 with a serious (eventually fatal, but it may take a few years) heart condition and found myself in the latter situation. As hard as it was, I was lucky enough to find a program for veterans in distressing situations so I moved out. Things are very difficult, one because I really do still love her but cannot live with the abuse and humiliation anymore (my pca was going to turn in my wife for abuse if I didn’t take action). On the other hand, my wife and her family are the only people I know in a five state radius and I want to move back “home” where my four grown children are with their kids and be a part of their lives. It’s very, very lonely here. Sometimes it is better to suffer in silence than to slowly die, alone.
What I am trying to tell you is, weigh your options. First try to open communications unless that has already failed. And even if it has, take a class or go to a relationship expert to learn the right way to say things so you words cool the fire instead of adding fuel to it. Last option – Go if you have to, but be sure it’s your only option.
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The point of this article has nothing to do with dishes, laundry or anything else around the house. It is about respecting the person you are married to and making what is important to her important to you simply for that reason. Not discounting her feelings by justifying them by YOUR standards.
The symbol of the glass is a good one. How much more effort does it really take to put the glass in the sink? Or the dishwasher? The point being, how much more effort does it take really to show your wife she is important to you than it would to justify why you shouldn’t have to, either to her or to yourself.
For the “well what does she do for me?” crowd. What difference does that make? Seriously. Do you give to charity? Do you help a buddy move? If you are driving down the road and you see someone with a flat, do you stop and help? If you do all these things, do you demand some form of appreciation FIRST? I guarantee you that if you show your wife that she is important to you the rewards will come.
A sex life improves dramatically when she feels loved, cared for and appreciated, and then you will see how much she loves, cares for and appreciates you as well.
I disagree with “a sex life improves dramatically when she feels loved…etc.” No it does not automatically improve. Some people are simply incompatible here, and it is better to discover this before marriage. You say “I guarantee you that if you show your wife…etc.” There are no guarantees. The person is who the person is. Don’t expect them to change. You need to be happily compatible with one another instead of always taking umbrage…
Bull.
when you get married it is expected to change from living as if you are single to living as if you are married. I don’t know why people would think this unreasonable. If your wife did not clean up after you before you lived together why do you expect her to do so after?
I say that your sex life improves because being treated like you are your partners parent is VERY unsexy. I can tell you from experience that sex is much better for me, at least, when I feel loved. Maybe not you, but I am betting for most that is true.
Of course, what you say is reasonable. I agree, but not all people, not even most people, are able to give themselves sexually to another. In fact, a couple all too often finds that one of them is far more interested than the other. People bargain for sex. They quietly without fanfare make the other pay and pay or they withhold entirely signs of enjoyment. What I am saying is reasonable, too, and conforms to the experience of many people.
kim “If your wife did not clean up after you before you lived together why do you expect her to do so after?”
I don’t expect her to clean up after me. In fact, it’s my job to do the dishes and maintain the kitchen. However, what I resent, is that I am expected to do that job on her timetable, to her standards.
Back when I was just cleaning up after myself, I could do it my way and I didn’t have to worry about anyone complaining about how I do my own chores.
Marriage cake has killed more female libidos than all other sources combined. Let’s be honest. A lot of woman act passionate and desirable when dating only to turn in neglectful ice queens when married. You know what that really is – fraud. Deception. Deceit.
I really object to the scapegoating of one or the other partner. Don’t look for blame. Don’t look for your partner to change; instead–you must enjoy each other or find another partner.
Do not marry person you are not compatible with in the ways that are most important to you. Keep your priorities straight: but for that, you need to know yourself very well and you need to know what will destroy you and what will only annoy you and what you can tolerate and never mention. You need to be compatible to begin with, otherwise there will be too many annoyances to overcome, you’ll both get too angry to deal with them all. Most people do not know what they need to be happy. I didn’t.
I myself wanted fulfillment of my primary needs which are very great intimacy both physical and emotional, imagination and fantasy, openness and friendliness, sweetness, truthfulness, passion, laughter, silliness, and generosity. In my first marriage I was shown none of those qualities by my wife. I only discovered later that education, culture, money management, good taste, and intelligence were secondary and less important in a wife. Cleanliness, neatness, good eating, punctuality were only tertiary—and so on and so forth, etc. I am happy now. My first wife was bossy, angry, unhappy, secretive, a closed book; however, she was educated, had good taste, was a great reader, a marveloous cook, cultured, upper middle class, very pretty, etc. A real sublimater!. Perhaps she behaved that way not because of me but because she was with me. We were incompatible.
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My husband always wants the bed made which he never does and I think is totally stupid. But I make it for him because my love language is acts of service and I bet your former wife’s was too. By leaving a glass by the dishwasher she hears I don’t love you at all. We women are crazy like that! Great blog!
it’s a friggin glass. she is an idiot so be glad she left and move on. There are way more important things in life then a wife getting ticked about a glass. Communication obviously was not in her marrital resume’.
nunya, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but, if you read the article and you think it is about the glass you probably should not be calling anyone an idiot. again, no offense intended.
Its not about the Nail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
I love the “Its not about the nail” video 🙂
I have known many couples who had no sex at all for many years because one of them was angry at the other. There was no use in trying to talk. The “withholding” spouse would not discuss it or would bring up other things to change the agenda up for discussion. This signifies “You want this but you have to do this first, but to do this first, you must do this other thing before that, oh, and there’s another thing,” and so on and so forth etc. etc. In other words, stonewalling. Stonewalling for months, years, even decades. This happens. It happens all the time. “So get over it,” and move on. Find another partner more compatible or one less given to harboring angry feelings. True the feelings build up the more any problem is repeated and not solved. That’s the way human beings are. No need for lots of blame and scapegoating. What do you want from your partner? Before you get married, make sure your partner agrees that he or she will always help you to get it.
Or maybe, you know, the “withholding” partner simply is not interested in having sex with the other partner, and is not out to stick if to them, as it were. Marriage doesn’t equate to a drunken evening at the bar when/where anyone inebriated and remotely attractive will do. When you’re married and have kids, perhaps two separate careers, school, housework, etc, time is precious. Why roll your eyes and lay like a star fish so that you’re not “stonewalling”? I know it seems hard to believe but women actually desire sex as well but have very little interest in having sex with someone who they feel does not respect them. I see it more the other way around from you: a partner is willing to forego the enjoyment and satisfaction of sex rather than having sex with someone with whom there is no mutual respect. I believe there’s a word for it. Dignity?
I can’t understand if you’ve disagreed with me or not. I made my remarks with the assumption that the distraught partner, who is most bothered by lack of sex, is treating or trying to treat the other with respect, dignity, and so forth. Is “lack of interest” an alibi for being totally uncooperative? I don’t think so. And your remark, “… it seems hard to believe but women actually desire sex as well …” Please re-read my comment. Where in it do I mention women or men or single out women as being especially withholding? I mention couples and partners. Because I’m a man, you assume I’m speaking of wives withholding and not husbands. I wasn’t. Husbands withhold sex, affection, respect, money, etc. So do wives. Women and men are of the same species and do the same nasty things to each other.
Excuse me, it was late and I was working on homework while I was typing. What I am getting at is your comment here:
“This signifies “You want this but you have to do this first, but to do this first, you must do this other thing before that, oh, and there’s another thing,”
Implying that the witholding partner is interested in collecting a bunch of things or favors before “giving up” the sex. Or maybe that partner is actually trying to direct the other partner in directions that would make the withholding partner feel more attracted to/loved by/happy with the other partner, making sex return naturally. Most aren’t turned on by a sexual barter system: promising sexual activity in exchange for the dishes or laundry being done, the leaky faucet fixed, or watching the kids for a few hours. They are turned on by a person who willingly and without being told does those little things because they genuinely want the other partner to feel good and happy.
I will explain this. I’ve been married ten years this fall. I currently have absolutely no desire to have sex with my husband. Like Matt often explains on this blog, one can be a good person without being a good spouse. That is my husband. He is a good person, he doesn’t abuse me and provides for your family, he loves his kids…but he does not contribute to our home in any way except financially, he unintentionally belittles all I do for our family (I keep the home, have raised both kids alone, plan and shop for all holidays, I am a full time student and also own a small business that I run alone to give us extra money), he has to be reminded a dozen times to do the very few things I ask him to do around the house, he doesn’t help with our finances, etc. All of these things make me annoyed, frustrated, sad, and sometimes angry (though I rarely get angry). And because he makes me feel this way, nope, I have NO desire to have sex with him. When I try to explain to him “I wish I only had to remind you do do X once” or “it would be nice if you offered to make dinner” or “if only you would stick up for me when your mother is rude to me” or “I wish you showed appreciation for the things I do”, it is NOT because I am trying to get things out of him before I give him sex. It’s because I WANT to desire him. I want him to put in the effort so I naturally gravitate towards him to have sex, hold hands, or whatever it is. But as it stands, it grosses me out when he tries to make advances toward me. It makes me feel used and generally icky. I am in my early 30s and very much want sex, but I am past the point in my life where I want sex with a stranger, someone I’ve got no emotional connection with, and that is my husband.
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ABB – you have described my marriage exactly. You and my wife would get along- she too has no interest in showing any sign of affection anymore (been married 16 years), haven’t had sex in 3 years. Like your husband, I have a great job, am a better father than either of our fathers ever was, and work hard to be successful, in order to live the lifestyle she wants to live. She doesn’t work outside of the house. I wash dishes almost every night, make breakfast on the weekends, help put our kids to bed by brushing teeth, reading stories, etc. I wipe the dog’s feet before he comes in the house! I turn my socks right-side out, because she hates doing it when she dos the laundry, and wash my hands 15x a day because she’s a germophobe. She was very sweet and undemanding while we were dating. I have two questions for you as a wife: when does it become a barter system, especially when one has made an effort but doesn’t ever see the “reward” and why is it the husband who has to change to suit his wife?
The is so much good and so much fail both together in this article. The author misses that a lot of women tell men what to do because they are naggers, pure and simple. It doesn’t matter what or how much the man does, it is never enough. It is a tool of control to always keep you hopping to her beat. On the other hand, yes, you need to respect your spouse and do those things. Just be watching for that line where it becomes a “card” she plays on you.
My wife nagged me about housework, so I began doing not only the dishes and babysitting the kids, but the floors, the laundry, the beds, and the vacuuming. She never noticed and continued complaining. After 3 months, I said something. Told her she had never noticed nor mentioned a change. She ignored me. By the way, she had the cushiest possible job and was not ever worked very hard and our kids were happy, cheerful, not cry-babies or whiners. My ex- was raised to complain. A real princess.
I’ve read and re-read this article probably thirty times and forwarded it to fifty friends. Thank you for writing this article. I hope we all “get it” before it’s too late. I always ask, “what’s our version of dishes by the sink?” – not making dinner reservations when you said you would, not buying a snow shovel when asked, not getting that big heavy thing out of the attic, not planning a vacation, not calling the exterminator … It happens in little things and in big things … And when a husband says “yeah I got it,” then doesn’t … It is damaging to the relationship
One of my guy friends asked me what I thought a divorced woman would say. What would she realize after the relationship was over about mistakes she may have made? I wasn’t sure the answer …
“what’s our version of dishes by the sink?”
Nothing.
There are countless things that she does or has done that have bothered me, some deeply. Yes, some are bad enough I contemplated leaving her over them. The worst was when her negligence lead to the death of our pet.
And yet, I do not explode at her on a weekly basis, or threaten divorce over stupid little stuff like dirty dishes.
And I think that’s what hurts me the most. She explodes and threatens to divorce because I don’t do enough housework, meanwhile I am a near-endless fount of forgiveness and acceptance, yet she can’t see the disparity.
I appreciate where you’re coming from and felt the same way in my marriage. But I think you’re maybe not understanding your wife.
She’s not upset you didn’t do the dishes. She’s upset about how she feels because you didn’t do them. YOU don’t feel the same in a role-reversals situation. It’s not apples to apples. You get way more upset about what you perceive to be her unfair reactions.
It’s not about the dishes. It’s about mutual respect and empathy.
Oh, I understand. I understand that the housework means more to her than our marriage, than a peaceful homelife. She cares more about achieving the American dream of a perfect home with a little white picket fence than she cares about living a peaceful life. She would rather go to bed angry and alone, as long as the dishes are done and the floors are swept.
Matt, you know what says “mutual respect and empathy” to me?
Love, forgiveness, understanding.
My best friend died SCREAMING in agony because she left a box of crackers sitting on the end table. Yes, I’m bitter about it, yet I have given her less crap over that than she gives me over mundane bull.
Obviously, we simply have different goals, priorities, and perspectives. We define “love” differently.
“I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.
I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time.”
and later
“Men are perfectly capable of doing a lot of these things our wives complain about. What we are not good at is being psychic, or accurately predicting how our wives might feel about any given thing because male and female emotional responses tend to differ pretty dramatically.”
In other words, she wanted you to be psychic, to read her mind, to mystically understand her priorities, goals, and standards. That’s what’s unreasonable. You DID “figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.” The problem is that your definition of what needed done and how to do it didn’t match hers, and she wasn’t willing to flex or compromise.
I see that totally differently. If you see the clothes on the floor, pick them up. You see the dishes by the sink, put them in the sink. Clothes need put in the dryer? Dog need water? Bottles need rinsed out? What he is saying is that both of you are as capable of seeing what needs to be done, why is it her definition of what needs to be done is different? If there is something that needs to be done, just do it. Why be told? Why be asked? More importantly, if she asks you to do something why does she have to remind you? Obviously it needs to be done. Look around your house, like she does and see what needs done and do it…it’s really that simple.
Nope. “x needs to be done” is an opinion, or a standard if you will. To the husband, the dish doesn’t need to be put away. It’s really that simple.
“why is it her definition of what needs to be done is different? If there is something that needs to be done, just do it. Why be told? Why be asked?”
I think that first question sums it up perfectly. Why is her definition different? And maybe more important, why the assumption that her definition of what needs done is the right definition, and my definition is the wrong definition? For example, she thinks every trash can needs emptied every Tuesday night, even if it only has a few pieces of paper. I think they need emptied whenever they start getting full or stink or whatever.
So what makes her right and me wrong?
“More importantly, if she asks you to do something why does she have to remind you? Obviously it needs to be done.”
I felt this was worth addressing separately. The list of what needs done is unending. There is always more work, yet only so much I can achieve in a day. If I worked until I was finished, I would work from the moment I roll out of bed until I eventually collapse from exhaustion, and I would repeat that every day. Even if I could live like that, it’s not a life worth living.
Since that’s an unrealistic and impractical, since I don’t work nonstop, it’s inevitable that some things don’t get done, or don’t get done on time. Sometimes I need a reminder that she’s running out of clean pants because I was focusing my limited time on dishes, or I need reminded that we’re running out of clean dishes because I was focusing on taking care the pet stuff, or reminded to change the litter box because I was cleaning the basement/deck/storage/whatever. No matter what I do, or how much I do, I am always neglecting something else. When I’m catching up on one thing, I’m falling behind somewhere else. There is no way to “win the game” of real life.
In short, there’s a LOT that needs done, and it’s inevitable that I will work on the wrong priority sometimes.
(sorry if this double-posts, I’m having trouble with my internet connection)
Imo this isn’t a gender specific thing. It’s a lack of emotional and social intelligence thing. If your partner or friend says that something is important to them or that they need something from you, you should do what you can to fufill that need (as long as it isnt abusive, harmful, humiliating, est). Your partner or friend shouldn’t have to ask you 1 million times to attend an event that they find important and meaningful. Your partner shouldn’t have to ask you to for help that they need 1 million times when you said you’d do it but never do it. Being dissmissive and argumentative about your partners needs, wants, and thoughts is neglectful if not abusive. Being in a relationship is a consendual agreement that people arent often forced into. If you take the time and effort to go out of your way to consensually invite a person romantically or platonically into uour life, the least you could do is accept their quirks/faults and be mindful of their emotions.
Also if you’ve been friends with or in a relationship with someone for years and you don’t understand or care to know their pet peeves, you probably don’t care that much about them. Many people don’t experience huge truamas or periods of time when they need someonr, and sometimes they don’t expect anyone to fully be there 100% when it happens. Little things mean a lot, you should be able to count on your friends or significant other to be there for the little things. Petp peeves can drive people crazy because it’s an irritant/annouance that they have to endure every waking day relentlessly while being dismissed and ignored by the person who is supposed to care about them and love them.
Today’s Focus on the Family broadcast addresses this somewhat. My takeaway from it and observation for you all is this:
I certainly know that my wife loves me although I may not always feel like it. But the health of my marriage doesn’t depend on my feeling loved. It depends on a desire to seek my wife’s best good above my own as I try to follow the example of Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit to the glory of God.
I know my wife loves me because she tries to do this and she knows that I love her because I try to do this. If we had to actually succeed in making each other feel loved, the marriage would have been over a long time ago. We love each other not because we always feel like it but because we practice it when we don’t.
I read through the article & I read through many of the responses.
When you chop something up into bits and analyze the bits you often get a different understanding than what the whole was meant to impart.
Not all men are apes. Not all men are children. Not all men are abusers. Not all women are ditzes. Not all women are naggers. Not all women are princess.
We are built different. We understand differently. We feel differently.
One thing I believe is essential to any relationship is MUTUAL respect. If I respext you, I want to show you that in ways that elicit the feeling of being respected. If that means that I check the oil once in awhile so you know that I take the work you do maintaining our vehicles seriously, then I check the oil. If that means that I need you to put you dirty dish in dishwasher so I don’t feel like a maid, you put the dish in the dishwasher. Both women and men MUST do better showing MUTUAL respect.
A marriage without MUTUAL respect & love is doomed to fail.
And now, for some levity…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg
Still love this post, by the way!
Matt – Obviously I am seeing only a very small piece of the puzzle that was your marriage, but I am wondering if you have considered the possibility that your ex wife may have been a manipulative/exploitative person (narcissist, borderline, sociopath, etc.). There are a few red flags that tipped me off enough to post this comment:
1) I am guessing that you were not leaving the cup on the counter (along with other “mistakes” you were making) on purpose. I’m guessing you were not being malicious, and undermining her requests of you…it sounds to me like you would simply forget. If that is accurate, then I have to wonder how your spouse, who is supposed to love you “unconditionally”, could become so miserable in your marriage based on such a petty thing. Keep in mind that emotionally manipulative types will intentionally cause a ruckus over small (and sometimes non-existent things), simply in order to get an emotional reaction out of you…This is how they can discard you, ending the relationship without remorse, and still make it sound like you were the one to blame. Most people that experience this DO end up accepting blame, even though the blame that is being pushed onto them is completely unjustified.
2) From the article:
“But I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of. I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
I don’t mean to come off as being harsh, but if you really believe that the above statements are true, then you are probably a prime target for predatory women looking for someone to manipulate and exploit. By telling someone that you will gladly do whatever they want you to do, you are setting yourself up to have your personal boundaries (if you still have some) smashed into dust. Healthy relationships consisting of healthy individuals require healthy boundaries. If your partner’s favorite words to hear are “I got this”, and they know that you will do anything that they ask you to do, then they very well could use that to take advantage of you. This is actually something that predatory/manipulative people look for in partners, because it makes them an easier target to gain complete control of.
3) From the article:
“Yesterday I responded to a comment by @insanitybytes22, in which she suggested things wives and mothers can do to help men as an olive branch instead of blaming men for every marital breakdown. I appreciated her saying so.”
Although this is not directly stated, it seems to be implied that your ex wife may have been placing most (if not all) of the blame of your failed marriage onto you. If so, that is a BIG red flag. All relationships consist of 2 people. It takes two people to make a relationship work, and it takes two people to bring a relationship to it’s end. People who project 100% of the blame for their problems onto other people, places, or things, are unhealthy individuals.
I’m sure that there were things that you could have done better during your marriage. No one is perfect and everyone has room for self improvement. This is all just food for thought, of course…
I agree.
Reading this I really feel sad for the writer. Both in how he was treated and because now he appears to blame himself. I would suggest that a much better message for two humans in any type of long term relationship is to simply follow the golden rule both in the respect that you extend and the respect that you expect in return. Would you treat her terrible because she violated a long list of “minor” infractions? Just from reading this one post I suspect the answer is no (but of course I don’t know that for a fact). If the answer is no you would not, then I think it is fair for you to expect the same in return.
What if every day, she violated the same “minor” infraction? Even though you’d told her it upset you that she did. And she just consistently did it over and over again.
Honestly, when anyone does that, significant other or friend, what it means is they can’t be bothered to mildly inconvenience themselves for two seconds for your sake.
“What if every day, she violated the same “minor” infraction? Even though you’d told her it upset you that she did. And she just consistently did it over and over again.”
thathat, I can’t speak for everyone, but in my relationship, she DOES. Instead of fighting, yelling, arguing every day, I simply accepted that there are some things she will never do for me. To rephrase, I accepted that I can’t have everything I want.
Sadly, she doesn’t extend that same forgiveness to me. She complains about the “imbalance” in our relationship, while continually ignoring the imbalances that benefit her.
I don’t think spouses are supposed to love you “unconditionally.” That’s maybe for a parent/child relationship, but no, sorry, spousal love is conditional.
It doesn’t MATTER that he wasn’t doing it “maliciously.” If she repeatedly made it clear over and over that it was a thing that bothered her, then he should learn not to do it as a matter of respect. (And you can bet it didn’t just show up as Glass By The Sink.)
I mean, honestly, it’s like people commenting here don’t even know how to be /friends/ or something.
Like, I’m a hugger. I like to hug my friends. But I have some friends who Do Not Like To Be Hugged. So even though my natural impulse is to hug them when I see them, or say goodbye, or when they’re sad, I REMEMBER that it upsets them, and I’ve LEARNED NOT TO DO IT because I respect and care about my friend’s feelings. Even though *I* personally wouldn’t be upset getting a hug from a friend, I know it’s something that upsets them, so I don’t do it.
I have friends who don’t like swearing, so I make an effort not to swear around them. I don’t like the smell of cigarette smoke, so my friends don’t smoke around me. I live with a roommate who hates it when the lights are on in an empty room, even though I know I’ll be back there in, like, fifteen-thirty minutes, probably. So even though it doesn’t bother ME, I make the effort to remember that it bothers him, and I take the extra two seconds to turn the light off.
I mean, that’s basic human respect 101. Everyone has different things that drive them up the wall or make them uncomfortable. That goes doubly-so for in your own home.
Part of having a successful relationship is making a compromise. And the truth is, it’s a lot easier to learn to /do/ something than it is to learn Not To Be Bothered By something, so those aren’t really equal sides of it. And folks saying it’s such a little thing, but that’s kind of the point–knowing it’s a little thing makes it that much worse, because it turns into: “It is so little. It’s so small. He know it bothers me, and it literally would take him four seconds to not do the thing for my sake, and he won’t even take those four seconds to do it. My feelings are not important, and it doesn’t matter how many times I ask.”
And honestly, if you cannot or will not learn not to do something that bothers your partner, then y’all probably should just break up, because that’s not fair to anyone.
THANK YOU! I said something similar. It is as if the people commenting here have Aspergers. This scenario doesn’t just apply to romantic relationships, it applies to any human relationship you have with other people. IMO it seems that a large percentage of our population lacks social and emotional intelligence. You can’t go to a friends house or your job as you please and make random messes and not have them resent you after a while, the same principle applies to your partner in your relationship. The people in the comments are acting as if pet peeves don’t exist. Spending every waking hour of everyday with your worst pet peeves would drive ANYONE crazy. If you care about a person you shouldn’t be driving them crazy everyday or have such a “tough Sh**” attitude towards their discomfort or concerns. Its not my intention to put anyone down, I just believe that people who can’t understand this concept are on the spectrum of having a neurological abnormality such as autism.
Really well said. It just illustrates that it is really a matter of respect. If you can’t/won’t do those little things out of some kind of passive aggressive thing, then it really IS a big thing, not trivial at all.
Sorry, I replied above, but now see that I should have replied here. Unfortunately, I cannot delete my earlier copy.
“What if every day, she violated the same “minor” infraction? Even though you’d told her it upset you that she did. And she just consistently did it over and over again.”
thathat, I can’t speak for everyone, but in my relationship, she DOES the same neglectful things every day. After a few tearful breakdowns, I gave up. I could continue to push her to change her behavior, but it would mean constant fighting, yelling, arguing. Instead of all that drama, I simply accepted that there are some things she will never do for me. To rephrase, I accepted that I cannot have everything I want.
Sadly, she doesn’t extend that same forgiveness to me. She complains about the “imbalance” in our relationship, while continually ignoring the imbalances that benefit her.
so many people just don’t get what this article is about.
This article was in fact very easy to understand. Who doesn’t or can’t get it? Anyone who is or was married to an ass gets it. The foremost important thing between people is respect; after that, perhaps, comes love, perhaps friendship as well. Marry someone compatible or don’t marry; or leave your incompatible partner who doesn’t intuitively follow you and your needs. You should not have to discuss everything and explain, on and on. Admittedly, sometimes it’s hard or impossible to do everything your partner wishes of you as taking care of your partner sometimes means being just yourself and making demands or stating refusals. When I found my wife refusing to do the simplest things, such as stopping all her silly dropping of names of her numerous former boyfriends or to quit ordering me around in front of guests, I silently stopped being so cooperative, naturally without warning her first! You should not have to draw someone a roadmap. she obviously disrespected me. She never tried to discuss; she wouldn’t explain anything. It was a joy to divorce her. But I don’t hate her: we were incompatible; she should have married someone with money who shared her family’s values, and who would let her be as withholding of information and plain talk as she wanted. Me, I felt all alone and unloved and was for all the time I was married to her.
A lot of times women use small things as a sign of larger things. If he won’t do this tiny thing, if he doesn’t care about this tiny thing, what about the big things?
Like most things that destroy relationships, it seems almost too simple, so it doesn’t get enough of our focused attention.
But what you’ve just said is very, very, very important for guys like me to understand.
We so easily justify things in our head, because we think we apply value fairly to things.
So. Marriage = Important
Family = Important
Car Needs Repaired = Important
Going to Work = Important
Wife’s Story About Becky at Work = Not Important
Daughter Julie Feeling Unfairly Treated Because Brother Mark Never Gets Corrected For Being Asshole = Not Important
Dish Set by Sink = Not Important
And we just assume we have a good, common-sense handle on right and wrong, on what’s true and what’s false.
So even though a little thing is actually so important as to be able to ruin a marriage and break a family apart — even though it’s THAT incredibly important — a husband can totally brush it off with zero guilt or a second thought because his brain, in less than a second, categorized it as Not Important, and decided it wasn’t worth his time or energy.
It’s often an innocent process. It’s why a husband can act so shocked when a difference of opinion about one of these “little things” can cause his wife to react so emotionally and (for him) unexpectedly.
I used to say this to my wife all the time: “You CONSTANTLY surprise me by how upset you can get about something I consider unimportant.”
The concept of empathy was, I think, lost on both of us, but even much more so on me.
So, when I write this story, my point is not to convince a person a dish by the sink is a “big deal.”
I don’t, personally, think it’s a big deal.
But I value love and marriage. I value family. Above damn near everything.
I think most husbands and fathers will tell you they do too, and that they mean it sincerely.
The connection they fail to make is that the dish, for his wife, makes her ask:
“Can I trust him to take care of our children properly if something were to happen to me?”
“How can I live with a man who consistently demonstrates an unwillingness to value my feelings?”
“How can I trust this man to provide for me in ALL areas of life, if he can’t provide for me on this one small issue?”
Or, whatever.
It’s no longer about the dish, and it never really was.
It’s about a fundamental question as to whether she can TRUST him. And when the answer is “No,” she feels forced to protect herself and her children from a person she can’t trust.
Viewed solely through that prism, one could logically argue she SHOULD divorce him (and I hate divorce more than I hate pretty much anything).
Thank you for reinforcing this subtle, nuanced thing in relationships which seems to be missed by the majority of people.
I appreciate you reading and commenting.
Great post, Matt! You capture the essential understanding of the core issue, and you inject compassion and humor expertly. Many of the comments suggest that growing up takes a long time for some of us, and, sadly, it seems some of us never do. I am sharing this with everyone I know.
Thank you very much. I never expected it to register with so many, but it has proven to be a good conversation-starter for couples both young and old.
As I believe most relationships end due to a series of little moments one or both people didn’t recognize in the moment as important, I love that this post has been an ice breaker for some to “see” previously invisible incidents.
The scariest part of all the divorce and break ups and dysfunction, is that MOST of us never even see it coming.
I want to keep shining light on these sneaky little things and encouraging people to notice them and treat them with care.
Can’t thank you enough for sharing and taking time to leave this note.
Hi. I’m a psychologist and couples counselor out in Seattle. I’d love to repost your blog on my website: http://www.susanrc.com. Would that be ok with you? Your blog got referenced on our EFT listserv.
Thanks!
It’s kind of you to ask. By all means, it’s flattering that you want to. Thank you very much. If you ever want to reach out directly, you can do so at [email protected].
Great. Thanks!
For me, the most salient lines in this entire article are:
“But I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of.
I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.”
Many women like me who work hard at their jobs (50+ hours/week) and may or may not be the primary breadwinners do not want to regularly come home and have to immediately put dirt dishes in the dishwasher, worry about where the kids need to be/when, think about and make dinner, maintain the house, pay the bills, and constantly ask/remind others of what they need to do/be responsible for, etc. We ARE exhausted, and after years of no change, this exhaustion turns into resentment, which is very hard to reverse.
I have separated a year ago after 15 years together and 2 children. The reason? 15 years of the above article. I couldn’t bear it any longer, feeling disrespected and unloved and uncared for because of all the reasons described above. He still doesn’t understand why I did it, although I explained it in detail. He thinks I am crazy and going through a midlife crisis.
We are still “friends” and see each other every day because of our kids and our schedules, I am going to ask him to read this article and see id the penny drops, although I doubt it.
So spot on it’s actually scary , it means that we are such a cliché!!
This is beautifully written, The only thing I could possibly add is this: If your spouse shows you this and asks you to read it, your response should NOT be: “Well, I feel the same way about what YOU do.” Because that just totally misses the point, and pretty much underscores your original premise about not being respectful and instead, being completely dismissive.
Let me see if i understand your logic: So if you show this article to your spouse before they can show it to you, It will mean that you are right, they are wrong, and you can claim moral superiority…
…unless you are willing to preemptively admit when you hand it to them that you may be at fault here as well.
This has nothing to do with being right or wrong. I don’t think you are understanding this at all.
Kim,
You say that it has nothing to do with being right or wrong, yet you say that I’m wrong.
Interesting.
I know that the comment section here has become burdensomely large and you have likely not been able to read the other comments that I have made. I wonder how you would interpret my comment in light of my larger body of commenting expressing my thinking on this.
I actually have read your posts, and was quite surprised by this one. I did not take away from the post you replied to here that she was trying to be right or morally superior in pointing out that sharing the article should be accepted with an open mind, and not condemned and met with defense.
I am not sure why you thought that was what she meant at all. I did not tell you that you were wrong, I don’t know why you saw that in my post. I just don’t think you understand. Of course I have also read the comments on here from men who were given the article to read and made a point to comment on here about how they make the money, they provide, they shouldn’t have to be worried about how SHE feels about the dishes by the sink (per se) I took the comment in question here as pointing to those types of responses. Or the “there there” response I got when I shared it.
Sharing this with someone, to me, first or last, is not to win a competition but saying that there is a communication problem.
Ideally shouldn’t we be able to just talk to each other? But, just like this blog post shows…when she tries to talk, he dismisses as he doesn’t see the importance in it. Is that what your response meant? That if she points out something she is trying to be morally superior? or right? Is that what men think women are really trying to do?
I don’t think wanting to be respected and heard has anything to do with “winning”. I don’t think sharing an article with someone because you have exhausted other ways to communicate means you are trying to make yourself “morally superior” either.
I was taking her point to its logical extreme. That is, different people have different capacities to bear with someone without complaint. The use of this article to show to your spouse is a kind of complaint that they haven’t been living up to your standards. Now it’s okay to express your desires, so some measure of complaint is warranted. However, lets say that one spouse is really bearing the other’s disrespect and suddenly gets handed this article. According to Emma, the one who just got handed the article is now unable to respond in any way that they have felt this way for a long time. But now they are being told that they have been doing the disrespecting, which they may have to some degree.
You see, the kind of disrespect we are talking about is pretty subjective. I consider it disrespectful to shut someone else down from expressing that they feel disrespected when they have been holding their tongue for a long time because they know that their spouse won’t receive it well. I know just as many men who are like this as women, so it goes both ways. Many men don’t “get it” and listening to them, they at least realize they don’t get it. Many women don’t “get it” either. However, listening to them, they seem to think they do.
So what’s the solution?
The solution isn’t about trying to get your spouse to “get it”. You can express your feelings, but don’t expect your spouse to meet your standards. Rather, it’s your primary responsibility to discover how it is that you disrespect your spouse and try to correct that. That’s the only true control any of us ever has. It will always seem unfair, but the true definition of love isn’t in what you get, it’s in what you give.
Now, if that’s not understanding the issue according to what you said, then I’m guilty of being wrong. (There is an unbreakable relationship between the epistemological and ethical meanings of right and wrong, by the way. So yes, when you say that I don’t understand, that means that you are saying that I’m wrong.)
Kim, don’t mind Jim P. It’s his goal to make sure anyone who comments out of line with his chauvinist thinking on this thread is put in place. He’s the watch dog ensuring us frail, weak-minded women know the true way to happiness and success in a marriage, which is to please our men devoid of any emotions or thoughts of our own. You’re merely his next victim. He’ll move on to someone else next (likely me) and you’ll be off the hook.
Actually, I didn’t “move on” to Kim in this thread. She moved on to me. She’s been a far kinder person than you.
At that, you falsely accuse me in that you think my goal is to put women in their place. Actually, the teaching that I’m expressing here is from Ephesians 5:25ff, which is directed toward men. However it’s an application of verse 2 which is directed toward everyone.
Now people tend to get hung up on verse 22. The word “submit” there, however, actually isn’t there in the original Greek, but is a continuation of the general command in the previous verse. That is, we are all to submit to each other. But which would anyone rather do? Submit or sacrifice, even to your own death. Well, everyone is called to do both.
So are you saying that pointing that out is being a chauvinist? If so, then I guess you’re the one now who doesn’t “get it”.
Now, you may not be a Christian. In fact, you may despise self-sacrifice for the benefit of others. Some people do, and you are free to believe what you want. But is it not the admonition of our times, even the premise of Matt’s article, that we must judge people based on their own criteria, their own feelings, convictions, and expectations? And yet you have failed to correctly ascertain mine. I’m grateful for my own wife and I would give my life for hers any day of the week. I’m just calling on other people to engender that same kind of love for their spouses.
And yes, I usually get my own glass in the dishwasher too.
There more to it then that I’m sure.
Guy here, just started going through divorce. Safe to say, the worst thing that’s ever happened to me.
Anyway, obviously I found this site and have been reading extensively from it over the past several days as I try to make sense of what happened.
I applaud your efforts at introspection and looking at your struggle as an opportunity for growth. Some people don’t use adversity in those ways, which only hurt them and others long term. Also, you want to help others and make the world a better place, very commendable.
However, I share similar concerns as Sean (April 13 2016 post) brought forth. Here’s why I say that. I understand the idea that your former wife felt hurt and unheard when you failed to unfailingly honor her request to put your glass in the dishwasher immediately after use. I know that I feel disrespected and unheard by various people in my life over similar things. But, it is a choice to continue to feel that way. I mean, it is often my first impulse to feel like that. But everyone has a choice to question their assumptions and decide if they are being totally reasonable. There may be alternative explanations and I think it shows good social skills to be able to consider these.
As an example, I find I get frustrated when I call or email someone to schedule an appointment and I don’t hear back in what I consider a reasonable amount of time. It just happened today. So I indulge myself awhile, thinking things like “I wonder if they do this to everyone – disrespecting their time. It’s a wonder they can keep a job with that attitude!” In this case, I ended up making a followup call only to find out that there was a problem with email – the other person sent an email and I didn’t get it. (I believed this response because this has happened at times with every single email service that I have used.) Anyhow, it snapped me back to reality.
Yes, this is a bit of a stretch because this is not a person I share a daily existence with and have to put up with this over and over again. In fact, it was a chance problem. But I will submit that at some point that it is far healthier to say to yourself, “OK, that’s just how that person is. They told me that it’s nothing personal, they just have this blind spot or they take awhile to adopt a new habit.” Meaning, your ex had a choice in whether she was going to continue to feel the way she did or if she was going to try to find some acceptance vis-a-vis your particular human frailties.
Put another way, as far as I can tell (and I think I’ve tried pretty hard), there’s no way to be perfect. I don’t know anyone who is. I think my ex-wife-to-be is basically a good person and I’m sad things are ending the way they are, but she’s not perfect either.
I’m saying this with the sincere hope that you will consider what I am saying. You are trying to make sense of a brutally painful experience in your life, one with any luck you will never face again (believe me, I’m pulling for you on that one!). And I see that you are working to ensure that. But I beg of you, please do not take on more fault than is reasonably due to you.
And thanks again for sharing all your thoughts. It has been and will be tremendously helpful.
I love all of your articles! My relationship is pretty much over and it does make me feel disrespected and unloved with all of the little things. I work a 12 hour day starting at 5 am then rush home to pick up kids from daycare and take them to whatever practices, make dinner, do all household chores and try to keep our house clean with four kids (5 counting the messiest of all- husband). He works 9-4 and gets upset if I ask for any help…like the time I was so sick and very pregnant and asked him to run one kid to a friend’s house for a play date. The fact I asked set off his anger and World War III. It puts me way over the edge when I go to do laundry and all I’ve asked is that his clothes go into the laundry basket but yet each and every time I have to go around the house collecting his stuff off the floor while he sits and watches tv because of his “long day at work” or has his buddies over. I don’t have time for this and it feels like such a major slap in the face that he seems to think my job is to pick up after him. Even a thank you would go a long way instead of a “joking comment” about this being my job and how can I be upset and how he’s the world’s greatest husband because he comes home. I asked him nicely to read some of your articles and that it was very important to me. That many point out how women think and the differences of how men think. He has more important things to do and unfortunately will never read one 🙁
Hi, I left my husband for less than that. And I am really happy and got my self respect back. I am nobody’s slave, and neither are you
He has no right to be so rude, selfish, and inconsiderate, and your feelings are completely justified. You are not his mother, his maid, or his nanny; you are his wife and partner in all things. You should have a partner that loves and respects you properly, and your children should have a much better example of fatherhood in their lives.
You deserve better, honey. I wish you luck in everything.
I love this article! It sums up my exact feelings and explains why I am getting a divorce after 7 years together. I couldn’t get my husband to understand that our fights weren’t just about dishes and laundry, but that my feelings meant nothing to him. I told him over and over that “we will get a divorce over dishes and laundry” and “I feel like a single mom with 2 kids” (we have one son). He would tell me I needed to remind him daily what chores needed done. He spent 2 of our 7 years unemployed, on and off. Our house looked like a tornado hit daily. I never felt so disrespected. I worked hard to provide income while he laid in his own filth on the computer for months at a time. So, to the men thinking your wife was crazy for getting upset, I say it’s not the act of not doing chores, it’s making a woman feel like a maid and mother when all she wants is a partner. Someone to surprise her with a clean kitchen, cooked meal, or folded laundry without endless nagging! I have that with someone now and I can’t believe I put up with that crap for 7 years just because we had a child together and were married.
Reblogged this on Myasthenia Gravis and commented:
This is one of the most profound posts I have seen AND from a male’s perspective!
It takes two to be married. From someone who did a ton of housework, did all his own laundry and dishes and cleaned up on only day off while the wife sulked in her room and took hour-long baths. She will still leave you over “dishes” or a list of other things. There is nothing you can do for these women to make them be adults.
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It’s not about the glass, not even really about showing love and appreciation. It’s about taking care of the little things that one constantly does that turn into bigger things (i.e. leaving an empty water bottle on the counter, every day, and not taking the time to put it into the recycle bin because THAT just takes SO much effort…) If you know the glass thing bothered her just ask why…get to the bottom of it…and tell her why you left it..compromise…BUT when you ARE done with it, take care of it and don’t leave it for her to do.
You didn’t read this in full, did you? That patronising, self-justifying “why” – like she doesn’t understand – is part of what gets women deciding to leave. Chambermaid in Chief is not what women look for in marriage. The author is spot on here.
As a woman myself, I don’t think there’s anything much wrong with trying to understand the why, SO LONG AS you are also doing it anyway in the meantime.
This hit the nail right on the head.
I think this comes back to society’s ills played out in the home: Women are taught that it’s our job to take care of men, our job to be the self-sacrificing ones, our job to manage home and work and etc, and that it’s wrong if we ever complain or feel put out or if we don’t do it all with a smile. End result is that women, in general (me included) have to be more aggravated before we even raise something as an issue and are less assertive in standing up for ourselves than men – and in a lot of cases, we have good reason to be as a lot of research shows that assertive women are viewed less favorably in a lot of cases, have lower job reviews, etc.
Men, for their part, are often not taught how to do housework at all (my partner wasn’t for example). Where they are taught how to do housework, they are often raised with the unspoken assumption that when they get into a relationship, their girlfriend or wife will take care of it, and that these skills are just for living alone or for not driving their roommates batty.
So you get men who simply don’t have the know-how to pitch in equally on the housework front and an engrained attitude that they shouldn’t have to, and on the other hand you have women who simply don’t have the know-how to raise something as an issue early and assertively and have been taught to be ashamed of not being some superwoman who can keep a house spotless while taking care of kids and pets if you have any of either, and working full time.
It’s a recipe for friction in a world where women just simply don’t have time anymore to take care of all the housework – maybe back in the 50s when we were expected to stay at home, there would have been time for it, but in the modern world, it’s only fair that if both partners are working both should pitch in equally on housework.
Yes, you should have helped your partner out with housework more. But the failure doesn’t just lie with you (or with her inability to articulate why it was important for her to get help, for that matter!). It lies with the culture that still raises boys and girls under an outdated and sexist assumption that girls only need to know about housework and babies, and boys will never have to pitch in with either.
I completely disagree. Nobody taught me how to fold laundry, how to clean counters, clean mirrors, use a vacuum or to cook. But I do 80-90% of the laundry, I help cleaning our home (it’s our Sat AM chore) and I cook 100% of the time. I do these things because it’s my way of contributing to the home. My wife is on kid duty most of the time and I do the things I mentioned (plus a lot more such as mowing, landscaping, power washing and almost every outdoor related chore). I do enjoy cooking, but it’s still a grind when you do it 6 nights a week and not always enjoyable.
Like I said, nobody taught me, but if there’s a man out there who cant do any routine household task and is not physically or mentally challenged, then he’s just not willing. And, this goes for women just as much as men.
While the author may have had good intentions, his argument is still based on flawed assumptions: that men and women are fundamentally different and incapable of understanding each other. The very premise that only a woman would care about dirty dishes or that only women attach deeper meanings to simple things and gestures is very misguided. As is the idea that a man couldn’t possibly understand how a woman will feel about something because all women react fundamentally differently to things than men. People are different, they have different needs, wants and priorities, they react to situations in their own unique way, regardless of gender. I know men who can’t stand dirty disorganized spaces and I know women who couldn’t care less what you do with your dirty dishes. It’s stupid to make that kind of blanket statements. This is not at all about men and women, it’s about respecting the person you are with and respecting the fact that if they repeatedly tell you something, it’s probably because it’s important to them. You don’t dismiss your partner’s complaints repeated because you’re a guy who doesn’t get how a woman thinks, you do it because you don’t respect your partner. It’s that simple. I’d like to think that maybe the author really did learn from that experience, but from the way this is written, I kind of doubt it. As long you keep thinking of your wife as an incomprehensible alien being just because she’s a woman, you’ll never truly respect her as a partner, and you’ll always be wrong.
Generalities like this irritate me as well. The author made the mistake of putting all men and all women in two different buckets, making the assumption that both sexes see the matter of doing a small deed for the one they love as trivial to men but monumental to women. I know a lot of women who would leave an empty glass by the dishwasher and a lot of men who would be bothered by it.
However, this article is EPIC in that it opens up a conversation regarding how completing a “trivial act” for the person we love, demonstrates that we value and respect them. THAT is the message we send them (male or female), no matter how slight the task. To dismiss any act that would please your partner as “trivial” is akin to slapping your partner in the face (in my opinion) and is what ended my own marriage. I just didn’t feel respected. At all.
I appreciate this feedback. I’ve come a pretty long way in nearly four months RE: gender silos, thanks to some brilliant reader feedback and continuing education.
I’m always trying to get better. And how we frame the gender conversation is absolutely a way in which I, and most people, can probably do better.
Thank you for reading.
I agree 100% about your article and one I posted before. Totally agree on causes that lead to the divorce.
It’s true.
I even cried that it ended a sacred vow.
Hope you’ve learnt your lesson.
Wives feel the same way exactly as you wrote.
I’ll read your next article. It’s going to be my third from you.
I don’t like you while you’re married to her but in case she can trust you again, please prove to her parents that you will take the second chance.
If you have violated her more than twice then I pray you will never get her back and her happiness is my priority.
I don’t like what you did to her at all but if you’ve improved totally….I wish you the best together….again.
Both you and Ichi made the fatal error of attacking the author for the more simplistic statements in the piece. Rather than realizing the article was about HIS situation and how the lessons he learned from HIS situation can help others, you attack his example of a glass. For the record, women and men ARE different. It’s Ok to generalize as generalizations exist for a reason, stereotypes exist for a reason. Just because something isn’t 100% accurate in every situation doesn’t mean it’s not a correct assessment. You also attack the smaller point is his story about the glass and attempt to dismantle his argument and even belittle his progress in learning about relationships by questioning what he’s learned. The glass by the sink was simply a small example of how two people can see the same situation differently. For him it was a glass by the sink, for another couple, it might be cleaning out the bathroom sink after brushing, etc. Rather than attacking the author, how about applauding him for recognizing a mistake he made in his marriage, and instead of either passing blame or dwelling on the mistake, he has authored an article about respecting your partner in an attempt to help others. If anything we should all be applauding his healing efforts. Now to the substance you’re again attacking. Have you ever heard of the book “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus”. I mention that book specifically because you mentioned “alien being”. It’s a massively popular book that talks about how men and women see things differently and will ALWAYS see things differently. I find it incredibly disturbing how people are trying to minimize the differences between men and women in some sociological attempt to promote equality. Men are VERY different from women. If you disagree, just stop reading because you’re beyond help. Our hormones are very different and this drastically changes how we see things, how we feel about things and how we react to things. All of which is Ok! Women (in general) are more emotional about certain situations. (to the crazies out there, that doesn’t mean that EVERY woman is more emotional than EVERY man – so don’t throw out some example of a man crying while a woman comforts him) I’m not attacking woman power or women’s rights. I’m simply saying women have different ways of looking at the world than do men. The article simply states that in a relationship we need to work harder at seeing how the other person might view and feel about a certain situation before we dismiss their concerns. Had the author realized how the dish (just a metaphor for issues in other relationships fyi don’t argue about the dish) made his wife feel, he’d have gladly put it in the dishwasher. I think the article is great for anyone that reads it and can help save many marriages. Great job and dismiss the people that want to argue about how a man they know might be offended about the dish and you’re sexist for pointing out that a woman might be more likely.
I so wish I could have said this like you did. Thank you. Perfectly stated.
Nobody is “attacking” the author here. The piece is well written and has some great points. But saying that women are different to men because they get emotional about inanimate objects IS a generalisation. When one PERSON feels entitled to dismiss another PERSON’S wishes as less important than their own EVERY day through the SAME act for YEARS, eventually that relationship will break down. This is irrespective of gender or any other label. Someone pointed out that men should stop viewing women as aliens they can’t figure out. I agree. It’s just an excuse to hide behind. PEOPLE are different from each other, that’s the message. When we find someone to share our lives with, it is our job to figure out what makes them tick NOT dismiss their grievances as irrelevant. Great piece, just don’t agree that men don’t understand women. Some people can’t be bothered to understand other people. The gender excuse is old.
Trying to reply to “RyLy3 on May 23, 2016 at 10:13 AM”, but I guess they’ll never see this.
Yes, stereotypes usually exist because of some kind of factual reality, historical or current; however, it does not automatically follow that it is a positive thing to perpetuate them. Yes, statistically it will be the woman of a heterosexual relationship that “nags” about the glass, and the man who thinks she’s overreacting and is frustrated with what he perceives as a skewed perspective; however, it is not useful to blanket-state this circumstance as the only one worth considering as this will only serve to cement and galvanise the sterotype(s), which leads to more assumptions and prejudice. Stereotypes (which are overwhelmingly negative) encourage people being unfairly dismissed and written off: yes it may be a minority (hence the stereotype!) to whom it’s unfair, but it’s still an undesirable way to approach human relations, and not a constructive way for a diverse society to exist and improve. The intention of overcoming stereotypes is not to minimise differences or ignore statistics, it is to recognise the exceptions to the case and encourage potential to buck trends.
Because it is a possibility (less probable but entirely possible – this is exactly my point) that the man could be the perceived nagger and the woman the perceived dismisser, I think the author should have been more flexible in presenting gender roles in the article, and he has welcomed this suggestion from other commenters and responded favourably.
Nevertheless I agree that the article is a great point of view and a very useful read on many levels. Thanks Matt!
My exhusband got a new wife that will never have dirty dishes in the sink like I do right now. I cook and there’s constant dishes. My house is sloppy compared to my exhusbands new house. Reading your blog made me happy I’m single. No fighting over stupid stuff.
Thanks 🙂
I agree with you.
You are so witty to understand the whole intention of the article.
I print yours and post on my fb.
Can I see your fb, too….I create pages to rescue families. Hope you can read mine, too…may Allah bless you…
I agree with Ichi. Hopefully once people mature if they’ve learned anything about human nature they’ve learn to make compromises. We leave a dish one day and a a sock the next. Correct them both and it’s something else the next day to take its place. Constant bickering isn’t something any person can or should have to put up with. You need to accept that no one is perfect, (including yourself) and deal with it. Who really cares about that dish? Leave one there too and it becomes irrelevant. A real relationship is difficult at times as we ALL know but you learn nothing by walking away. Both people have to make adjustments or it’s doomed to fail. After being married for 27 years you realize you can’t have it all in one perfect little box with a bow on top. ? Life is better when you meet halfway. Go buy some paper plates and get over it!
I’m going gay
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Love this and all the comments. I can relate to all of this!
Love this article. It makes perfect sense to me. Sharing with my friends on Facebook. Thank you 🙂
Thank you. Thank you for providing a way to explain it to my husband in a way he would understand. Thank you for putting the meaning into the words I had spent years verbalizing only to find that it didn’t stick. You helped save my marriage (and our counselor). My husband and I are communicating better than we ever have and for the first time we truly have a partnership. This article was the flip of the lightswitch that helped my husband understand what I had been trying to get across for too many years. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
My favorite kind of comments to read say things just like this. I know what you mean about the switch finally getting flipped. Thank you for taking the time to share this story.
Here’s to you both. To many years.
I have been legally seperated for nearly 3 years. I shared this article on my facebook, and my boyfriend read it. Thank you for putting into words what we can all understand. I know I wasn’t perfect in my previous marriage, and we seperated for different reasons, but it helps to recognize why those little insignificant things can become big things. My boyfriend and I both loved the article, and seeing us both put it into practice has made a world of difference. We are expecting a baby next month, and it couldn’t have come at a more perfect time 🙂
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From someone on the verge of leaving, this hit home.
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Thank you. For this. It’d this coupled with rage and then teaching five children to treat me this way also.
After 26 years, I’ve never “wanted” to divorce – tear my family apart – I just simply cannot stay where I’m treated like I am not wanted.
Thank you for this! It’s not something I could ever phrase in a way that helped my ex to understand – the glass by the sink, the socks on the floor the toothpaste in the bathroom sink. You hit the nail on the head – feeling as though someone doesn’t respect the contributions that you make – whether male or female is a tough one to overcome. There’s definitely a communication breakdown there that persists until we can step out of our own perceptions and consider things from a different perspective. Needed this one today – thank you again!
I loved reading this, so much insight so much simple truth. It is never the Thing “it is what the Thing represents” once we get that every THING changes
Changed my life. That one, dangerously simple to the point of almost being a secret, realization.
Thank you very much for reading.
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>getting married in the first place
kek
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Women _NEVER EVER_ tell you what they want; “If you really loved me, you’d KNOW what I want without me having to TELL you!!!” Real masters in communications, y’know. I’m not a mind-reader.
That said, once she TELLS you what she wants out of us poor dumb brutes, it’s up to us to deliver. It isn’t fair, of course, because when we tell THEM what WE want, we’re often told that we don’t have a clue about what we really want or need, and the women will give us what THEY want to give us. It’s a rigged game.
The only way any marriage ever survives is if BOTH PARTNERS have open communications. Talk about everything, all the time. If one of you shuts up, it’s all over. That’s why the divorce rate is approaching 50% – or is it over that now?
My first wife refused to tell me what she wanted; I was supposed to KNOW what she wanted. Since I didn’t know, that was proof enough that I didn’t love her, in her mind. That’s why she was my FIRST wife. It was expensive and painful, and for a while I was ready to gnaw off my arm to get away from her. My second bride and I are still newlyweds, still getting to know each other after 35 years, and I’m still madly in love.
Survival, even joy, is possible.
Holy. Shit. Man- you should be insanely proud of yourself. This is spot on, cracked the code type of stuff. I’m sure it was a painful process to get to this point of humility but wow- you will be better for it.
Omg. My husband and I are at war over dishes right now. I will forward this to him and hope he ‘hears’ it. Thank you
Maybe you will be lucky enough to ‘hear the other side, too’: not “men” but people ARE different, and whether we like it or not, ‘weight’ different acts differently. For instance, are the dishes REALLY that big of a deal? Have YOU decided yet to remind The Prince that you’d like him to step away from the TV / Computer / SmartPhone / Green Section, and go empty the sink?
Remember Angela: women have something many men simply do not have: a nagging sense of completeness, finality, “done-ness”. The cause is something researchers are still nearly without theories for, but it is real. If (compared to you) your otherwise pretty good mate were identified with an ingrained handicap, would you still be tempted on tossing him? Over the ‘disrespect’ of dishes?
Just saying: there are two sides of the coin of companionship. The best way to get rid of the ‘hangnails and splinters’ of relationships is to change IN LOCKSTEP. You state, with words, things you’d like to see change. He does the same. You BOTH start changing. Expect imperfection, time; expect somewhat childish complaints. Worry not: he’s seeing the same from you. Just … you don’t see it.
Balance.
Acknowledgement.
Verbalization.
Acceptance.
Candor.
Humor.
There are few other things as important to making a relationship work.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom — acquired the hard way. I have to say that my wife, unlike yours, got upset because I washed AND dried the dishes. She thought it was a waste of time to dry and put them away again since “they dry themselves overnight.” I on the other hand can’t stand to see a mess in the kitchen when I go to bed. But I did take too long to do it. C’est le vie.
I started using paper plates. Since I’m in charge of garbage and recycling, we’re all good, but I’m sure she’ll leave me for something else now.
I occasionally run into this sexist nonsense, and it’s always a bit jarring. Like ‘wait, what century is this?’ jarring. So, to be clear: your ex-wife doesn’t care about the dishes because she’s a woman. Your inability to empathize with someone standing in front of you and telling you their feelings with tears in their eyes is not because you’re a man. It’s because you’re an asshole. Maybe you’re only an asshole to women? Or to women who you think you don’t have to care about, because what’s she going to do, leave?
For what it’s worth, you seem to have at least figured out the problem with what you were doing (repeatedly ignoring requests from a partner, which you probably agreed to respect at the time the request was made; also, that parent/child or boss/employee dynamics in a relationship aren’t generally healthy), but the weird gendered shit layered on top of it is just so bizarre.
Right. A lot of people don’t like it. And frankly, misinterpret it.
None of this is BECAUSE someone is male or female. But it IS 100% demonstrable that (generally speaking — all of this is just broad generalities) “Men often do this…, women often do that.”
I agree that it does very little to advance the social conversation about how bullshit sexism is. And I apologize for that.
But this isn’t about gender. This is about husbands like me, learning an important life lesson about empathy that can save their marriage if learned early enough.
And THAT is important. And it’s worth any ancillary criticism I might receive as a result.
My intention isn’t to categorize or divide or pigeonhole. It’s only to help men confused about communicating with their wives or girlfriends have the “ah-ha” moment they need to not break everything.
It’s important.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Sexism is bullshit. I try hard to not demonstrate it.
Many of the comments here concern failures to communicate. In my case, my first wife, her negotiating strategy was to make demands.
We were happy at first, or I thought we were. But after our sons were born, she apparently decided that whatever I was wasn’t good enough. Or perhaps it was all an act, and by that time she figured that she had “won”; she told one of her girlfriends that I would never leave the mother of my children.
Generally in “negotiation”, each party gives in a little, takes a step forward, and they meet in the middle someplace. In her case, she’d make demands, and not budge an inch. I’d give in a little, and then give in a little more, and a little more. After a while, I started surrendering to her first demands, since I knew she wasn’t going to budge. She was so shocked by that that she’d take two steps BACKWARD, and restart the argument from a new, non-negotiable position. I never claimed to be smart; just young, stupid and (I thought…) in “love”. So it took several times of me surrendering to her initial demands and then her making NEW demands… Eventually I figured out that this was a fool’s game, which is why the original Mrs. Mitchell was replaced by a new, far more reasonable Mrs. Mitchell.
Communication is still sometimes hard, but if both parties can bargain in good faith, it _can_ work.
I usually don’t comment on these and have not read all the comments written, but I know from experience (married 30 years now), I totally understand the woman’s issue with the glass. It is a matter of respecting how a person feels. My husband does the same type of thing. When he puts something on the kitchen table which is a few steps FARTHER than putting it in the cupboard…it just shows me he could care less how this makes me feel. And when I have asked him why he does that, he won’t answer or makes up a “silly” answer that makes no sense. So I give up, I quit asking and just put the stupid stuff away myself. But it still bothers me every time I have to do that. I do plenty for him and he’ll do plenty for me (if he’s in the right mood to do it), so we make it work, but it’ll be with me forever that there’s some things he doesn’t care how it makes me feel.
thank you so much for posting this matt. When I goggled can I divorce my husband when he persistently leaves drank out of water glasses with the clean ones I really didn’t think I would find anything like this! I wasn’t sure it was about the glass or not for me and so this made such sense. I am going to show him this later, as there are lots of other small issues that could blow up if he dosn’t really understand my point and I bet this will help get that message out there. Best of luck to you and thank you for sharing
x
This is spot on. I am often at odds with with my husband and kids about this type of stuff. I do 90% of the housework and management of all stuff related (bills, appointments, activities) AND I have a job. It’s very frustrating that my husband is incapable of handling what I call “his business” routinely and doesn’t do what he says he will do. He’s not a kid, but sometimes he might as well be. They also all leave crap around, undo any organizing I make happen (yet they like being able to find their stuff when they want it), and just show a general lack of respect for the effort I make to make their lives infinitely easier. It’s not about the glass by the sink-it’s about respecting and appreciating that someone took time to make a place for that glass, and putting it there for the next person.
Matt, I just discovered your blog the other day and have not been able to tear myself away from reading it. How is it possible that you could understand women so PERFECTLY?? I am still incredulous! I have never read a book or magazine article that has been so right on the money. I don’t even think our marriage counselor gets it. The only problem is how do I get my husband to read it? He has never read a single thing that I’ve ever recommended, including ADHD articles pertaining to my son. He has definitely considered divorce, and probably will again, but I think his eyes would really be opened and he would actually change his ways if he were to read your blog. Any suggestions on how to get him to read it?
Thank you for this post. It shed some light on why my boyfriend gets agitated over small things like a dishes left in the sink.
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It’s really difficult to divorce in any circumstances, but is worst when both sides don’t agree. The first thing I though of when divorcing was looking for a divorce attorney, but I never stop to think if it was me who was wrong. You are so right in everything that you wrote. Many times women believe men are not capable of doing things, and that frustrates them. We think that they cannot change, but after reading this you showed me that of course it is possible.
Thanks for your post. I see men so different now.
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This is my second time back to this article after several months. My wife sent it to me during a rough time.
I go back and forth with myself while reading it. When you speak from the woman’s perspective it makes sense. When you speak from the man’s perspective it makes sense.
One huge problem I see with this is the potential for endless arbitrary demands. With a little bit of emotional wizardry they can all be made to link back to the enormously important variable of the wife’s feelings of being loved and respected. It can be dishes by the sink, or a door left cracked open because it doesn’t readily close all the way, or missing a couple details in the month long schedule that she unloaded on you three weeks ago, etc. It can be any insignificant thing that she decides to latch onto.
Or, it can be a pattern that BOTH of you have fallen into that she suddenly decides to blame solely on you. Eg. for months you BOTH kick off your shoes at the front door without laying them neatly to the side. It’s not ideal but when you’re tired and your arms are full of the trappings of going out for the day it’s easier and you forget to go back and do it right. Then, one day, she’s in a bad mood and comes in raging and kicking the shoes all over the place AND … now the shoes are all your fault and they’re a sign of how childish you are and how she didn’t sign on to be your mother and that you never do anything to help around the house…. Heaven save your ass if you dare to mention that both of you do it and that none of what she’s saying is true. It doesn’t matter that you actually have picked up all of the shoes on several occasions or that where she kicks her shoes off have caused you to nearly fall repeatedly.
The point is, this habit by women of attaching deep significance to the minutia and detritus of daily living and the forgetfulness in the mundane is poisonous to a relationship. It’s not all on men to adapt every habit and mannerism to the arbitrary desires of their partners. For the working example, “I’m sorry that the glass by the sink bothers you so much. I wish it didn’t but I have my reasons for keeping it out. You need to learn to not fixate on it when you walk into the room. Part of being a spouse/partner and living with another adult is learning how to accept another’s differences. If this is the kind of thing that sets you off then you need to go exercise, or volunteer, or hang out with friends or something. I refuse to be a slave to your emotional diarrhea.”
But, you can’t say any of this. Women want immediate regret and apologies and understanding. They don’t want a rebuttal, they don’t care how you feel. It’s their opportunity to unload on you. Any attempt to defend yourself or to make a case for complicity or to point out any of the numerous wrongs they have committed on you that you have never said anything about is reduced to you not caring about their feelings or loving them.
“You need to learn to not fixate on it when you walk into the room. Part of being a spouse/partner and living with another adult is learning how to accept another’s differences.”
yeah. You don’t get it. Reread your sentences here. “you need to learn”…really?
Yes, believe it or not, sometimes women have to learn and adapt. They aren’t ready-born and perfect. Women can make mistakes. They can be stubborn, manipulative, condescending, cruel, and selfish. Yes, a woman who ties her emotions to every little thing so she can control the actions of other people, or just her husband, is being manipulative and petty. Yes, she needs to learn that that is not how you live with and respect and value another human being.
Your wife is ready to walk if she sent you this article. And it looks like you have your defense set in stone. You may think you have the right to tell her what & how to think. Minutiae, arbitrary desires, need to learn not to fixate, emotional diahhrea. Yeah, sounds like you really respect your wife. I hope she sees your post. It will help her pack quicker.
This was poorly written (convoluted and not straight to the point), but if you’re willing to wade through my tomfoolery, I think I do make a few salient points:
A thing can look and feel like two different things to two different people, and not only is NOT wrong or weird, it’s 100% normal and to be expected.
Unfortunately, human beings are morons and forget this virutally every time we disagree about something.
https://mustbethistalltoride.com/2016/09/20/the-illusion-of-incorrectness-the-one-time-seeing-the-other-woman-can-save-your-marriage/
I agree wholeheartedly!
I don’t think it was his wife that used the glass as the example, though. I think it was him, being symbolic about what the glass represented, and a common symbol that many will relate to. It is not a matter of the things per se that you do, it is being aware of her, her feelings and why things are important to her. It is having compassion for the person you love and approaching her with compassion instead of indignation. You are so far off base in your last paragraph I don’t even think you understood any of the point anyway.
So, in this example:
1. The man wants to leave the glass out for his own personal reasons and
2. the woman wants him to put the glass in the dishwasher for her own personal reasons.
If I don’t understand it then explain it to me like I’m a child. Why, in an egalitarian society, are the woman’s desires held up over the man’s desires? Why is him leaving his glass out equivalent to him not valuing her but her insistence on overriding his personal preferences not equivalent to her not valuing him?
More to the point, why is it so egregious for a woman’s desires to not be honored but trampling on a man’s desires is overlooked and excused?
Dude, seriously…you just don’t get it. You are putting way too much emphasis on the glass. Clearly the analogy is lost on you and based on your response that you somehow think I am insisting women are perfect you are not open to seeing it any other way.
The C,
You are 100% correct. Kim – you don’t get it.
The analogy is not lost on me. I’m thinking outward from the initial problem (the glass by the sink) with a foundation in my own experiences.
It starts with the glass. You “correct” your behavior and no more glasses are left by the sink. Then, a couple days later, something else takes the place of the glass by the sink. That behavior is molded to her request, too. Eventually you find yourself in this perpetual state of behavior correction.
Meanwhile, since you don’t bitch and whine about every little detail, you are making no requests of her. You’re just enjoying being married to her. You love each other. You have someone who shares your interests. You have someone to talk to and experience life with. You’re happy.
Then, one day, something shifts. You come to the realization that for years you have been complacently changing your behavior to make her happy. That, in itself, is not a big deal but, while your behavior is being shaped by her will, hers is being shaped by your kids and her career and her never-ending schedule making. All of the positive things you do become commonplace and expected of you. She doesn’t seem to really care all that much about you except as someone who causes disruptions to her schedule. You realize that her dedication to the minutia, her attachment to all of the little things has resulted in your emasculation and dehumanization. Because she can’t stop focusing on everything you do that irritates her, she starts to think of you as a child.
The loving, intelligent, thoughtful, beautiful woman that you married, because of her focus on the glass by the sink, now resents you.
I have never seen a marriage where the husband makes no requests of the wife. Or, is the wife already doing the things that need to be done and the husband does not need to request that of her. If she is a stay at home mom, is she already taking care of the house and kids? Is she already taking care of the bills. Are you not “requesting” things because they are being done without having to ask?
I just don’t understand why so many men are so put out by being asked to clean up after themselves. Even in the analogy she isn’t asking him to pick up her glass and put it away.
I agree with mr c. I think you must identify with the wife so you can’t see mr C’s point of view. He is constantly trying to address every “need” but it’s a constant moving target! She may be in need of total control.
Man..talk about not getting it…
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Trust me, I understand all too well because I’m living it! I spent 38 years picking up the slack in my marriage. It was just something that someone HAD to take responsibility for. I raised four kids virtually on my own because my husband was so busy being all he could be at work, giving 100% of himself so he could be “successful”. The man I had to deal with at home was the over worked, tired, grumpy guy who left nearly every task, large and small to me. Don’t get me wrong now. It was a dynamic that I felt was working for the both of us. I got the promises that once we had attained a certain lifestyle and we got older that “we” would have this blissful retirement and all my hard work would be repaid! WRONG! It just sapped the life out of me. Our everyday lives took on a routine. His was to go to work and make money full time while working on his expensive PhD part time so he could be called Doctor! My everyday life was “crisis management”! If a problem or situation popped up then it was my “job” to handle it and make his life easy. He did not want to deal with “petty” problems that I should be handling! I thought I was being the type of person he adored for my talents, but that wasn’t the case. Evidently, I wasn’t spontaneous anymore or fun. Of course not. I had so many tasks and timelines to deal with that I had no time for myself or anything else! I found it hard to be relaxed and able to be a “lover” or girlfriend type to his ever growing list of “things that I could handle” cause he was far too busy! I just gave in to it all believing that as soon as that magical day came when he would retire then we could get back to each other! He NEVER said a word to me about his boredom or dissatisfaction with our lives. I thought everything was peachy (sans the growing dissatisfaction I had with my life, not to mention disappointment!). Then it happened! He walked in just short of our anniversary and told me he was “in love” with a woman he met on Facebook! I was destroyed!
From Jan 2013 to March 2015 my life turned into a ghastly nightmare! We divorced. He went to live with his adulteress. My life and my health were in the toilet (diagnosis of cancer). I prepared myself to make it alone which wasn’t a huge leap because I had been doing that most of my married life!
Update: Ex husband moves to paramours condo. He is used to the “useful woman” in his life handling EVERYTHING! He suddenly becomes I’ll. Not just sick, but cancer! Girlfriend can’t deal with it. No one can DO for him. This is something he has to deal with! He’s broke, unemployed and sick. Guess who, after four short months with his lover, shows up at my door?
Why? Cause he KNOWS I can “handle” it! Have things changed? NO! He cannot and will not discuss it, but I know and I’m satisfied that I had the time to reevaluate my marriage. I know why and when it went off the rails. Yep, it was the “dishes” metaphor on steroids!
Matt is right! Pay attention folks! Save your marriages! Mine is fried and now it looks like my husband and I have nothing left but our race to the graveyard! Don’t let this happen to you!
Leave that peice of ****. He left you when you had cancer to DIE. And now you’re taking care of him? Are you a masochist?
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I introduced my wife to a guy who was a dishwasher at Applebees, Thank God, they’re so happy now he puts his glass in the sink. She is so happy that she doesn’t have to pick up after anybody anymore. But now they’re broke.
This argument breaks down when one expects the other to figure out one’s likes or dislikes without being told.
True that, sir.
The next legit mind reader I meet will be the first.
Verbal and/or written communication or sign language would seem a critical component of this.
However, women always EXPECT us to be able to read their minds, because “If you loved me, you’d JUST KNOW what I want!”
love this
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Women can be just as bad. I’ve been showing this blog to my hubby on every post, and he’s kind of getting sick of it. He tells me that I’m constantly pretty much saying he’s a bad husband, and he’s not. Just remember, men have feelings too, and it works both ways.
Rachel, I’m heartened by your comment. You seem to be as much a blessing to your husband as my wife is to me, not that you made your husband feel bad, but that you realized it and desire him to feel better about it. I pray he reciprocates that same concern.
In my experience, the bad stuff that women do is disguised as good stuff. It’s marketed as improving some aspect of your life but usually feels like obsessive meddling and boat-rocking.
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Probably she ended up doing all the dishes.
I agree with a lot of this but it goes both ways.. If it’s a small 4 second inconvienece to save a marriage yep of course a man should just do it. But what about the woman who’s willing to leave over a glass? I’m a woman very happy in my relationship of 10 years and believe me my guy doesn’t do the vast majority of chores I ask him to do. But if the roles switched I wouldn’t live up to my own expectations. And if I found I was linking doing dishes to feeling respected I would either unlink my emotions (doesn’t seem great to link respect with a dirty glass) or at the very least I would explain to my guy “hey this is irritational but I can’t help it” you can’t leave a marriage without trying anything you can to save it. That includes putting your own thinking under a microscope to find flaws and let’s face it us women are really good at diagnosising everything our men do wrong, we just like to not put ourselves through the same process. It all goes both ways drives me crazy when my guy leaves dishes all over the house (by the sink would be excellent Hahaha) but I love him and I’m not going to link a dirty dish to how he feels about me
I think what you don’t understand is that the dirty dish is usually only one minor thing in a larger list of things that makes the wife feels disrespected. If it were only leaving a few dishes by the sink, this would only bother me slightly. It’s the other 100 things that pile up that make me want to leave.
That’s what the whole article was about…..he said. “It’s not about the glass” several times…..
You are very self aware. Thank you for the post. Here’s an article that I think describes what you’re talking about: http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/woman-realizes-that-shes-been-accidentally-abusing-her-husband-this-whole-time It’s flip side of the coin. It’s an important thing to remember.
This is a really good post!
My parents are divorced and this helps me understand them better. Sometimes I have similar conflicts with my mom and this is ssooooooo relatable.
This post made my day Bc I’m happy I’m not the only one?
This is an excellent article and really just helped me breakthrough to my boyfriend. It has nothing to do with the glass. It’s a metaphor. It has everything to do with being a partner. It’s been hard for me to articulate everything to him so I sent him this article.
I wish I could get up the guts to send this to my husband because it is, truly the little cuts that will kill your relationship. We have been married for over 17 years and I’m ready to pull the plug because I don’t feel respected or appreciated. EVER! But I’m afraid If I send it to him, it will cause yet another fight. Bottom line: adulting sucks ass. Just don’t get married.
jennbb33: we should be friends. I think we have a lot in common…
contact me. I would love a support network. what’s your e-mail and I’ll e-mail you.
great! I’m at [email protected]
Do you gals have the support group yet? 🙂
we have been in touch a few times…not exactly the same situation, but its nice to know we’re not alone…!
I want to be in the support group too!
I have been married 11 years and am in the same situation. I was reading the article and thinking can I show this to my husband? How will he take it? and so on. Could use some friendly conversation and support as I don’t have that at all locally or any where for that matter.
There’s a semi-regular group of commenters that do a great job lifting up other people.
I’ve taken a week or so off of writing so the conversation died on the most recent post, but there’s a nice group of regulars here who might be able to help.
Thanks for taking a look. Wishing you well.
Where can these commenters be found?
Been with hubby for 12 years and keep having the same conversations about dishes in the sink, toilet paper rolls unchanged, laundry on the floor, etc. and have tried explaining it represents a feeling of general disrespect for me.
I’ve even tried to see if we can each work on one “pet peeve” that is bothering the other one for a month (I had a habit of kicking my shoes off wherever I stop when I come in the house, which he hated). I ended up stopping the things that drove him nuts and he just temporarily stopped the things I mentioned for a few days/weeks and then went right back to it.
I was really starting to feel like I was being bitchy/unreasonable/crazy until I read this article and comments. Now I realize it’s NOT just me. I don’t really think he is willing/capable of change. He has some mental health issues from his childhood and previous relationships that contribute to the problem. I think it’s time to go but just reading this has given me such a confidence/morale boost that I cannot explain.
Thank you so so much for that.
I’ll tell you.
I sent it to mine and he still didn’t care. So, NOTHING happened. And I’m moving out. The end.
I finally got up the guts to show it to my husband (I told him about it first) and it has totally changed our interactions–in a good way. I’m not kidding. I think i was in the same position as Matt’s wife–I was ready to leave my husband and thought “he’s going to be totally blindsided, even though I’ve been telling him for YEARS how I feel…” he read the article and said “whoa–you HAVE been telling me, and I’ve just never taken you seriously…didn’t think it was a big deal. I realize now that it is”. he’s a new man. thank you, matt!
Thank you so much for sharing this story. It means a lot to me.
I’ve said it before… other than raising my son to be a good man, nothing I ever do in life will mean more than to help someone who ALREADY cares and loves (but whose thoughtless actions accidentally convey otherwise) recognize his/her relationship struggles for what they really are.
I don’t believe most people will understand this and reject it.
I believe most people will simply not understand it.
It is so very hard to appreciate the experiences/thoughts/feelings of another human being.
We are stuck inside ourselves. I really do give most people a pass, because it’s damn hard to NOT think and feel the things we do. And by damn hard, I mean impossible.
But so long as we UNDERSTAND that other people experience things differently, and that those differences can sometimes equal traumatic pain (even if we never feel that way and struggle to imagine it), I think we’ll always have a chance to work things out with those we love.
I don’t believe most people don’t care. I think people care.
I believe most people don’t know.
Sometimes, people can’t know until it hurts so much that they break.
Some people need to break first.
It’s awful that it must adversely affect so many people around them when it happens.
So, if a silly blog post can help a guy and family avoid all of that broken messiness?
It was a good day. Time well spent. I once did something that mattered.
🙂
Best wishes to you and your family. I’m grateful you took time out of your day to write this.
I should add–we HAVE been in marriage counseling…my premise for going to counseling was this: I want a partner. I want it to be you. if you don’t want the same thing, that’s okay, but I then I need to go find it elsewhere.
he has said he wants to be a partner, but he’s just not sure how…this article really helped. and yes, he still leaves dishes by the sink sometimes–because that’s really not what its about…
Right. Getting it DOES NOT “fix” the thoughtless behavior.
Getting it allows productive conversation to happen because both partners are talking about the same thing for the first time ever.
Even just typing this, it sounds so stupid to me. That couples can spend DECADES having the same fight with the same patterns and emotional triggers.
And all that time, neither person TRULY understands fundamentally why the other person is saying and doing what they’re saying and doing.
We chalk it up to crazy, say things we feel but don’t mean, and most people divorce or stay miserable.
I’ve believed from the moment all of this hit me that the simple (yet super-difficult) process of getting people (mostly men) to SEE this process for what it really is — that is NOT saying and believing his wife or girlfriend is “overreacting” or “being crazy” or “menstruating” — that many, many, many marriages/families/relationships will survive the ups and downs Life delivers.
All because both people are speaking the same language, or at minimum, using a functional translator.
No idea whether any of this is true.
Perhaps I’m totally full of it.
But I do believe it.
I’m curious about the women that wonder “how can I show this article to my husband,” or “how will he take it?” I was barely through the article before I forwarded it my husband, letting him know that I cried while reading it, and felt like someone had crawled into my brain to rationally explain my anger and sadness. Why are we so much more protective of these guys’ feelings than of our relationships? Send it! maybe he’ll get mad! maybe he’ll be upset – but then you have to honestly ask each other WHY you’re upset – what did he agree with and disagree with about the article? If you are identifying with even a portion of this great article, but can’t send it to the man you are married to, your marriage is already over. Let me know if you need help – any of you – finding a voice or working on these complicated interpersonal dynamics. I promise, I got your backs.
I just sent it to my husband.
I have nothing left to lose
My wife sent me this the other day and it made me feel horrible! Horrible in the sense that after 19 years together I wanted nothing but her to feel happy and appreciated and respected. For years I thought the glass metaphor was her being petty and nagging. But now that I realized that by me reacting that way made her feel the exact way I was working hard all these years to avoid. I’m left now sort of having to start over and completely rethink how I react to every situation. But women do it to men as well and men may feel the same way. So what do I do now? I still feel like I want go into defense mode if she says something about the glass and I’m sure I can contain myself but is that even completely healthy? Bottom line this article brought things into perspective but what is a healthy way to fix it?
Obviously there was something much deeper going on; it is very unlikely that any girl would give up the man of her dreams over such a petty thing. Either she married you knowing that you aren’t truly the man of her dreams or she is really that petty, and you are better off without her either way.
It doesn’t appear you actually read the article. It is stated several times it wasn’t about the glass. It was about showing her that he respected her. That is not petty, that is huge! I’ve been with my husband 30 years. It is a major pet peeve that he won’t take those few seconds & that I have to constantly nag. I do feel like I’m not respected. I also have 2 sons, ages 18 & 21. My husband leaving dirty dishes is teaching my sons that it’s okay for them to do the same. I have finally given up, and as much as I hate a messy house, I no longer clean up after them, I clean up the mess I make.
Again, it is not about the glass. It’s not about the glass being dirty. It is the fact that he left it there, for her to put away. He stopped his responsibility right there beside the sink. Then she had to ASK him to put it in the dishwasher. The point is, it is exhausting to have to get involved in every dirty dish your partner leaves beside the sink. It is one more thing you have to deal with. You expect to do things for your children, and teach them the way. But when your grown up husband leaves his dirty glass it’s a slap in the face. And over time, you start to think.. hmm.. what does this person really bring to the table here? Money? Because if I left him, I could still have his money and I would have one less glass to have to deal with every single day. Women need partners. We have jobs, children, and households to run. Why is it that I work 40 hours a week and you work 40 hours a week and then we come home and you can’t put your own glass in the dishwasher? Why does that default to being my job? We do not want to be mothers to our lovers and by leaving that glass, you kill the romance. You tell me that my time and energy is less valueable than yours. If she doesn’t put that glass in the dishwasher, when will it get put in? In my house, never. Maybe 2 weeks from now. I can ask but that doesn’t mean he is going to put it away. And the next time he leaves a dirty glass, I’ll have to ask him again. And he can choose to blow me off again. That, friend, does not a marriage make. We want a partner. And I promise you that after 5 years of dirty glasses, I have thought of divorce many, many times.
Oh my god this spoke to me. You described it so exactly on the nose. The exhausting thing is it never seems to get better with talking. We’ve talked about it and he will default to well give me a list. I don’t want to be the micro-manager. I don’t want to write a list of chores dammit, that’s another chore for me! And what inevitably happens is I write a few things down, he does them (often rather huffily) and then is DONE. While I’m still going on and on with the every day details and chores that make our family run. When I got married all my mom’s friends were like: make sure he does his fair share. But no one, nary a soul, has figured out how to make this work in practice.
Oh, I hated the “just tell me what to do and I’ll do it”-thing. Until one day, I really blew up, and apparently found the right words.
I told him that telling me “Just tell me that I should empty the trashcan, I can’t read your mind!” is about as reasonable as saying “Just tell me that I need to brush my teeth, I can’t read your mind!”. I told him, the point is that nobody needs to take a detour through my mind in order to know that they have to brush their teeth. And in the exact same way, no mind-reading is required in order to know that trashcans need to be emptied. It’s not rocket science. It’s not mystical knowledge only I have access to. It’s being a f***ing adult capable of leading an independent life.
Somehow that tooth-brushing comparison sank in. He looked at me in actual surprise, and I think in that very moment understood for the very first time what the heck I had been talking about all those years. Things have improved so much ever since. It’s not perfect, but it’s way better. And I must admit: I was surprised, too. It had never occurred to me that he could possibly not have *understood* what I had been saying. All. The. Time. I thought he’s just lazy and taking advantage of me.
we had a similar experience. We went on vacation to my parent’s for 8 days. Every day my dad gets up and straightens the kitchen, puts away the dishes if they need put away, snow blows the drive if it needs done, He will vaccuum if it needs done, and spot clean the carpet if that needs done (grandkids spill sometimes). He sees what needs done and does it. He does not do it “for” my mom.
I pointed this out to my Husband, with our last big argument, after I had worked the entire weekend (he has weekends off) and came home to dishes stacked to the ceiling, counters dirty, stove dirty, floors dirty…when I say I work a weekend that means I go in on Saturday morning and come home Sunday night.
Thing is, my dad doesn’t see it as her job and his job. He sees it as Her house AND his house. He doesn’t do it for her, he does it because it is his house too.
I just don’t understand the inability of someone not being able to look around them and see what needs to be done and just do it. Having said that, I mow the lawn, weed eat and all the other things that need done outside. I don’t do those things for him, I do them because they need done and I see that and do it.
not a hard concept.
You crawled inside my head and spoke my words.
I get you….
You say it like that andvit makes sense!
Well, now. The Squire often leaves his dishes on the counter for me to put away, but I have that figured out and it is pretty much my own fault.
I Have A System. And by gum, you are in big trouble if you mess it up. The Squire and I both know this and have learned to live with it. When we were newly married, we were loading the dishwasher after dinner and I didn’t even notice that I was moving every single thing he put into the rack until he called me on it. If he’s home and I’m working (I’m a temp) he will load the machine his way, and by gum! those dishes actually get clean! Sonofagun! But if I’m around he will generally sit stuff on the counter. Mind you, this man packs my lunch and has the coffee in the cup for me to add hot water in the morning.
We’ve been married over forty years. It’s too much trouble to break in a new husband at the stage of our lives. I’m going to let him keep me.
My husband was reloading my dishes too! And complaining how I wasn’t doing it right! I changed the way I loaded it trying to do “better “. It was never right. Finally I told him if 10 different people were here I bet each one would load it differently. I kind of made some progress with but he still gets annoyed sometimes out of his habit to complain about the dishwasher. If I can’t fit something in I move stuff, so what? I don’t think wow my husband loaded this all wrong and now I can’t put this in! No one can foretell what is going to need to fit in later!
Guys like you are keepers… I think she seemed a bit ‘Naggy’ but I’m guessing that she was trying to control her surroundings because she was unhappy for whatever reason… Maybe had nothing to even do with you but still sorry you had to suffer through the pain of divorce… Kudos to you for working with her to raise your son cooperatively <3
Sorry, dude, but you still haven’t figured it out. She didn’t leave you because of the glass and it isn’t about respect or death by a thousand cuts either. Women may be irritated at their husbands for that kind of thing. We may nag our husbands forever, but we won’t leave them because of it.
Wake up! It’s because you weren’t satisfying her sexually. Period! That may be her fault and not yours, but that’s the bottom line.
That dirty glass thing is just plausible deniability to save face.
Unless you have information about their marriage that I haven’t seen, I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion of her lacking sexual satisfaction. I know my SO wouldn’t leave other that issue as her interest is close to zero.
My observations over many decades are that women only leave husbands for one of three reasons:
1. She has reason to fear him, and she is afraid he will hurt her or someone she loves – ie: her children.
2. Financial insecurity.
3. She senses that he does not desire her – ie: she is not sexually satisfied. In this case, she will leave when she connects with someone she believes she can find love/desire with.
I’ve seen it happen over and over and over. I have never seen a situation where a woman left her husband for any other reason. If they were not fighting over money, and he never threatened nor abused her or her children, that only leaves one possibility.
Women do not leave over dirty glasses. It’s always about love or money.
glad your generalization covers every divorce situation ever. thanks for that info.
p.s. you know what happens when you assume and generalize…. you’re gonna look like a dick. because its an ignorant thing to do.
This also happens as a wife refuses to care for a home. I suggest reading this together and often revisit it. Never felt more disrespected in my entire life, come home to a nasty home. I worked so hard for.
Cause of course it’s just the woman’s job to keep the house clean. Because all women love cleaning. And cooking. And standing by the door when her husband come home with a cold beer for him before giving him some intimate pleasure without expecting anything in return. And all he has to do is bring in money. Yup, those are the modern male and female roles to expect in 2017……. *cough* misogynist *cough*
Especially when SHE is the one who is supporting the family with the full time job with the benefits.
Sorry hun but they do. It’s all about respect. When a woman feels like her husband is treating her like a door mat then she’s going to walk away from the maŕrage. So many woman get treated like door mats at work. They don’t won’t to be treated that way at home.
I know a number of women who have left precisely because of the dirty glass, which is typically a symptom of the husband turning his wife into his mother (he can’t be bothered to figure out how to keep a tidy house or he isn’t interested in her happiness). In the 1980s, Arlie Hochschilds wrote an entire book about the phenomenon: _The Second Shift_.
Here’s a direct quote from one of my friends who left her husband because of the dirty glass (which is really about not having an equal partner): “I’ve already got one child, why do I need two when one of them is a 44-year old man?”
Perhaps the women Bonnie Clark knows are all SAHMs or otherwise financially dependent on their husbands?
I read that book (The Second Shift) in 1993. It resonated deeply then, and still does now. And I do feel like I have three kids – but somehow I birthed one 3-1/2 years before I was even born!! Tired of it. And he yells at me not to treat him like a spoiled baby.
But… you behave like one…. and we teach people how to treat us….
What a great post! The glass represented the beginning of the marital breakdown. She felt disrespected, unappreciated and unheard – all factors which lead up to divorce. It’s so difficult for men in our culture to understand that woman are their equal. We can build spacecraft too, we can be police officers, detectives, firefighters and take on the role any man has ever had in the past and we don’t feel like doing housework either!
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You’re right it’s not about the dish, although it’s still pretty.
It’s about the little cuts that are never talked about… Never addressed… Never healed. The real problem is communication. Our first inclination is to internalise disrespect and to make the other person into a villain without thinking about how they feel in the situation. This goes both ways as a defensive mechanism and you can’t completely fault yourself over not seeing the lack of respect in one dish.
The true failing is the lack of calm explanation of the situation and why she felt that way. The communication is needed and encouragement to nudge those who don’t feel the same way about the situation so that they can understand.
There’s a saying I learned in philosophy long ago and it applies to this. “It is only reasonable to assume that common sense… Is only common to you”
Until a problem is fleshed out and made common for the other party it is egrigeous to expect them to use their intelligence to reason our a psychic understanding of the offended parties feelings.
Communication is key… If a person can’t articulate it, get help. Ending a marriage over dishes is rediculous and lazy.
Meant “petty” and not pretty
It always seems one way. It seems the burden of marriage is on me, not her. She can be as irrational as she likes that is HER RIGHT. I am not allowed that benefit. There seems to be only one way in relationships. It appears that I have to subjugate my rational soul in order to appease an irrational argument. Doesn’t seem very fair to me.
I feel like our marriage is good. Every idiot argument I eventually toss to the side like a pebble into the sea and forget about it. Every idiot argument she takes that pebble and puts it in her pocket and when the next idiot argument comes she says ‘look how full my pockets are; this is our marriage’ and when I don’t agree with that, I am a jerk. If I don’t agree with her variety of irrational or even completely unjustified or wrong things then I am a bad husband. It’s exhausting being ‘the Buddha’ when you are not the buddha. There’s only so much strong quiet sympathy I have before once in a while I just say ‘hey that is not fair!’ Shouldn’t she just give me a break once in a while???
Joe, research tells us that when a man resists the influence of his wife, he is headed for divorce 80% of the time (John Gottman). When you say “every idiot argument I take like a pebble into the sea and ignore and forget about it”, what you are saying is tha t you refuse to be influenced by your wife. Which means you have an 80% chance of ending up divorced. You say your wife picks up the pebble every time, which is not surprising because you still haven’t listened to her or taken her point. Refusing to listen is a sign of great disrespect for a person you are meant to love and cherish. She keeps the pebbles because every single one represents a betrayal that threatens her happiness and safety. Once she gets enough of them she will leave. You will have the satisfaction of knowing that you never listened to her and never gave in, and that you singlemindedly tossed aside the things she found important. She will be able to start again, hopefully with someone who respects her much more than you have. Even being alone is better than being with someone who tosses your heartfelt opinions and desires into the sea so that he can ignore them.
Ridiculous. You just assume his wife is rational at all times, and you assume he doesn’t take anything she says seriously. Some arguments are in fact “idiotic” and not worthy of remembering or holding onto.
Just because he’s not a weakling who gives quarter to every one of his wife’s complaints, does not mean he’s a terrible husband. Yet, it appears that’s what many women expect here.
Respect is a 2 way street. People need to stop acting like they’ve been crucified to a cross every time their husband/wife forgets a minor detail, or has a differing opinion on how to run the household. B
“If a man gives his wife respect, that makes him a weakling. If a man doesn’t understand his wife’s point of view, it means she is irrational.”
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You’re right about a few things: women like men who take care of things; the glass beside the sink does represent more et al. But a lot of the gender imbalances seem to be MEN need to start understanding and coming over to our SO’s side? It’s a balance .. you’re probably more laid back and have less demands than her – but were your needs being met?
Although I admire your ability to see beyond the glass and what it means in terms of respect, there’s also a story she’s responsible for. And the story is the “when he leaves a glass empty, he doesn’t give a shit about the house and me.” And that’s her interpretation or story, but it didn’t reflect the reality of your feelings.
This also happens as a wife refuses to care for a home. I suggest reading this together and often revisit it. Never felt more disrespected in my entire life, come home to a nasty home. I worked so hard for.
I see both points.. However, when I continuously ask for help with the baby, and he says I’m asking too much… That’s enough to want to split. Its not the task but knowing that my request for assistance is bothersome is hurtful. Its not even a task for me, its something that our baby needs.
You are spot on!!!
The author makes men seem kinda stupid. Who’s to say this guy wasn’t out there busting his ass, building, creating, and making money. Who’s to say he didn’t take care of her every need and then she’s gonna divorce him over dishes? If shes out there working too then I do get it.
I’d argue that I make men (in relationships) seem thoughtless and ignorant — not stupid.
It’s one thing to not understand something, and entirely different to not be able to understand it.
I think men can understand it. Which is why I write these things.
Men are not stupid. Most people are not stupid.
But it’s VERY, VERY HARD for the average person to step outside of their own mind and life experiences (especially when they’re angry or hurt) and put effort into UNDERSTANDING why someone else’s viewpoint could make perfect sense to the other person, while seeming so glaringly wrong to us.
It’s the root of EVERY deadly and/or relationship conflict of any kind in human history.
One side believes this.
The other side believes something else.
And the inability of BOTH sides to empathize with the other causes war. Whether that’s a deadly fight between vast armies. Or a simple disagreement with a loved one.
When we remain steadfast that we’re RIGHT and the other is WRONG, fighting is perpetual. And relationship breakage, assured.
Men are not stupid.
But because no one teaches us this shit growing up EVER, at any point along the way, we accidentally mess up our relationships when we try to convince our partners that they should agree with our “correct” way of thinking.
Men, mathematically speaking, do this more often than women.
Once the average man is armed with the basic premise and skills of empathy, the entire world will change.
For the better.
So much thoughts placed in this writing.
Sometimes, something little might be really significant to an individual. It’s never about the subject of matter, often times it’s the act itself that matters to women which stems from various reasons- love, care, concern, appreciation, comprehension, receptive listening towards her.
It’s never about leaving socks on the floor, not doing the dishes, leaving the wardrobe opened etc. It’s more of “These little things matter to her, I need to hear her out and understand. If I am not listening to her voice, then she’s just as unimportant as these little things.”
But of course women should never demand. And men, they can never read between lines therefore women should be straightforward in their requests to their spouses. E.g. “Could you pick up your socks please?” “Could you help me to do the dishes please?” “Could you remember to close the wardrobe please?” Importantly, are words of courtesy. This would probably help to build an open, honest and positive relationship between spouses. Pretty sure men don’t like feeling dominated by women neither do women like feeling that she’s a 24-hour-chore-robot.
Takes two to tango!
It’s not the ONE glass. It’s the one that shows up after that, the napkins, the stuff out of the pocket on the counter. Usually when someone can’t do one dish they ain’t doing the rest and it’s so annoying. I’m not your mother. We share a house so pick up after your damn self.
I agree, Megan. I married my husband to be his partner. He has an expectation – as most men do, in my experience – that requires an acknowledgement of what he has done: made the bed, done the dishes, folded the laundry and thrown another load in, picked up milk because we had run out, that I do on the regular and NEVER get thanked for. Where are these men coming from where they require a constant reminder, a never-ending thank-you for doing these tasks that seem to automatically fall to the wife the moment the honeymoon is over?
And why do the gift buying expectations, the remembering of the in-Law’s birthday’s, the putting of the dishes into the dishwasher, the appointment remembering all fall to her as well? I realize this is a generalized statement, but this is the unfair reality I have found myself in, as well, and I gotta say, it’s bullshit. And when I tell him it’s his deal now, he gets mad because he has to remember his mother’s birthday, or his niece’s christmas gift. Fuck that shit. I’m your wife, not your secretary. And put your damn dishes away. Rinsing them and putting them in the sink is a half-assed job.
men are logical, women are emotional.
if you equate cleaning up a glass with respect and love, then thats a bizarre relationship to begin with.
its not the wifes job to clean up after the guy, so dont. no one is asking you to so dont complain about doing it out of your own impulse and concluding that its because you are not appreciated.
Oh, please. Women are logical, as well. What is illogical about wanting the other adult in your home to clean up after himself? What is illogical about feeling disrespected when it’s clear that he takes no responsibility for keeping the home that belongs to both of you clean?
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I think there was a lot more going on than one glass. If the rest of the relationship was fine except for that one issue there would be no divorce. If money is good ( # ! reason for divorce) sex is good, you love each other from the heart a small matter like this will not cause a divorce.
From my perspective it is all about the glass, a sink with an object lingering in it is not about appearances for guest. A sink with an object in it significanty interupts the efficiently of the kitchen, to place things in the sink for immediate cleaning, filling of buckets, rinsing things off. It is the equivalent of leaving a pile of junk in your chair, every time you want to sit down there is something in the way that you have to deal with before you can sit down. Then the reason for this repeated inconvenience is that the other person will not do a simple step the must be done anyway but refuses to do it. And yes it says everytime that your selfish, and that your disorganized, you were making her life much more difficult for no reason.
And it speaks volumes about your willingness to listen, and be a team player. If you could not get this small concept it said to her she was in for a lifetime of being ignored or misunderstood.
I am not perfect I have made my fair share of simmilar mistakes.
This article was interesting and enlightening. I am divorced and remarried. I can say from experience – respect and love is a two-way street. Communication is most important- saying what you really mean and really listening.
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I gotta say – with my ex it always felt like he thought of me as an employee or maid when he left his crap everywhere with no intention of picking it up. nothing could be more disrespectful than throwing your stuff everywhere and sitting on the sofa thinking “she will take care of it, because i own her.” Right. Like women don’t have jobs and feed and raise babies as well, we need to pick up your trash too.
That was just the reason it always bothered ME so much. I wanted to be a partner, not a worker.
My husband of almost 18 years still doesn’t get this message. And now we have two kids who haven’t embraced what I’ve been trying to teach them: don’t put it down, put it away. Yes, I have started the countdown until the youngest is done with high school (he’s almost 9… halfway there!). Because then I am legally done with everyone.
I am sick of being the fucking laundry, dishes, dusting, cat box cleaner, dog poop picker-upper, dog walker, house-cleaning, bathroom, grocery-getting, meal planning, cook, pet, and everything else fairy. If you want to help, and I have to either tell you where the stuff is to execute what needs to be done or tell you how to do it or give you instructions, YOU ARE NOT HELPING ME.
And for those of you who say, aw, come on, if people are trying to help, cut them some slack, that’s all fine and good for you. But when you have to tell someone repeatedly to do the same thing over and over, throughout the course of days or weeks, because they don’t retain the information or see that it needs to be done, then fuck it all. I’ll just do it myself. Get out of my way. No, I am not a martyr, I am just sick of telling you that the laundry needs to be folded. AGAIN. Or the dishwasher needs to be emptied. AGAIN. Or the cat box needs to be cleaned. AGAIN. TODAY. Because it’s a new day.
I can’t wait to live alone, clean my abode, and have something be somewhere that I put it, when I go back to get it. Sure, it may be lonely, but I will have my pets. Those guys I know I have to care for.
Why not just stop doing these things and let your family learn the hard way? But then again, you wouldn’t have an excuse to leave.
I tried that. It just got worse and made my life harder. It is not a matter of looking for an excuse to leave, but basic respect and common courtesy. I let it go for 10 days to the point where the house was so bad there were bugs coming out of my step daughters room, towels under the beds where they could mold from being shoved under there while wet, the city threatening to ticket us for the lawn and I am pretty sure there would have been rats for all the garbage strewn all over the house. Maybe you don’t know how bad it is. I think I do.
Some men really do just leave their shit there for weeks on end. Once I left my ex to his own devices to see if he’d FINALLY get the picture…..and he didn’t! He left a pile of dishes next to his computer for over 3 weeks, until I finally had to clean it because the smell was so bad it actually made me feel sick. There were bits of mould and little black bugs everywhere. His only excuse? “It doesn’t even smell that bad. I don’t know why this shit bothers you so much.”
Enough was enough. I was tired of feeling like a nagging shrew on a good day, and a worthless slave on a bad day. I was always “expected” to clean up after myself AND him. He never saw the house as being a place that should be clean, and he never saw me as a person whose opinion should be respected. In the end, it wasn’t about him not doing the chores. It was about him not seeing the relationship as an equal partnership where we both chip-in.
He sounds like a complete tool. Good for you for leaving. The rest of the idiots here who post about this stuff being inconsequential and say to get over the glass are tools too bc they just don’t get it. Spare us your condescension – clearly you aren’t in the same situation so stop judging others suffering. Pick up a book and get a clue or some empathy.
I’m waiting for my papers to be done and I’m out. It’s hard but every day of feeling stifled is making me crazy. I’m looking forward to breathing again.
Start the process and leave. You will be lonely for a bit. It is scary as hell but….. I am so glad my ex left me. I don’t know if I ever would have but I am much happier now. I will never let someone treat me the way he did again’
Forgot in my last post to say “Yes” us men need to be enlightened with this article.
Appreciate that, sir.
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Sorry but the wife here sounds like a control monster to me. I bet getting upset about the dish not being put in the dishwasher is not the only complaint. I just wonder if she goes behind every thing he does and corrects him or has a better way? One small excerpt may not tell the whole story. How about she show her love and respect by relaxing over trivial stuff and concentrating on the big picture of what he does right. We all don’t have to be uptight because she is.
Spot on Lisa, but sadly, the reason there are so many conflicts is because women are taught from a very young age in our culture that men are incapable idiots and must be guided. There is no respect for men in american culture anymore. I honeslty think a level of contempt for men is ingrained in most women without them even knowing it before they even get married. Just look for it on TV and movies, you’ll see how poorly men are portrayed. Women are told by society from the moment they are born that they are special and deserve to be put on a pedastle, not because they earned that, but for the reason of just being born a female.
So, you then have cases like this where the wife assumes the husband is disrespecting her by not complying with the smallest of asks that she has. He’s not a real man because a real man would comply without being asked or reminded( at least that’s what’s shown in our media). Everything else he contributes is void because of not paying attention to minor details.
Imo, the op didn’t get divorced because his wife felt disrespected, she left him because he didn’t stand up for himslef. He didn’t demand that he be treated with respect as well. He let rage build inside of her rather than making a better case for himself.
All this being said, I’m not saying no woman has a legit complaint, I’m sure many are married to real jerks. However, if people relaxed like you said, and didn’t let small things get in the way, I’m sure there would be a lot less broken marriages. What I said above is made knowing that there are exceptions to every rule, but from what I see, there’s fewer and fewer exceptions to be seen as time moves forward.
I will say that this very fear (that I was being petty, and was assuming my husband was an idiot, not respecting him etc.) was what kept me quiet, until the point that I currently have an unemployed husband who does some cleaning, but mostly just watches TV and laments that he’s not man enough to provide for the house. I have let small things go for almost 10 years. I was happy with a 60/40 labor division, even tolerating a 70/30. But now we are at 90/10 and we are no happier in our marraige than a couple where the husband is “not respected by American culture”.
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I get the frustration of being disrespected in a relationship. I would come home, make dinner, do the dishes then hope to spend quality time with her yet instead she found Facebook & Instagram more engaging than hanging out with me. Sex was good at the start but after a couple of years of being ignored & also told how awful men are and the victimization of females is the only issue that interested her, I really started to resent her…So I left her and found someone without so many issues. We have a wonderful partnership & I couldn’t be happier.
This helps me understand my husband a lot better. Yes, I’m female, but I’ve always been proud that I don’t “sweat the small stuff,” like housecleaning. He does the cooking/cleaning, and I’m grateful; he rarely asks me to do more, but I don’t always do well at showing that I care about his efforts.
The problem I see is the man can’t even put it in the dishwasher right anyway. If he does, it’s in the wrong spot. Or he should have run it because it’s full. Or why did he run it because it’s not full, or it’s loaded incorrectly.
The man not only has to do the million little things that set her off about feeling loved, he has to do them exactly the way she would do them. Any other way is just wrong. I am actually learning how to do things the way she would, but it’s a set up for inevitable failure unless I’m saying “I got this” about some masculine chore that she is unable to do.
I feel like I learned the lesson the author did years ago and averted the divorce, but he only learned half the lesson. It’s a trap.
I applaud this post but think it would be better if you acknowledged two things that are implicit in your post: (1) you thought it was okay not to take your wife seriously; and (2) you thought it was okay for her to be your maid. Right? To her leaving the glass there probably signaled to her that you thought it was appropriate for her to take care of your mess. You knew that if you left it there, she would put it away. Right? It doesn’t matter that you wouldn’t put it away if you were in her shoes. You knew that’s what would happen and you did it anyway because you thought there was nothing off about her cleaning up after you.
And more importantly, when she told you, you ignored what she was saying because you didn’t agree. You operated in a system where your disagreement with an idea meant you could dismiss it as an emotional outburst. It was invalid because it differed from your point of view. I’m glad you’ve learned some coping strategies for dealing with a marriage where the spouses have different perspectives but a more fundamental issue is that you had a sexist view of your wife’s duties and obligations and the validity of her opinions. You don’t say whether your wife worked but assuming she did not ask yourself this: Had she overspent and thought well he’ll work more to pay it off or said that you turning a request to put a dish away into a marital argument by refusing to do it was just you being emo, you wouldn’t find that fair or correct, right?
It might also be fair to admit that it wasn’t just that one glass…
Women who are economically independent leave marriages like this because why be a maid for two instead of one?
SPOT ON, BOB.
Bob gets the point.
No Bob maybe not sexist view , maybe he was just living in his house . When I clean up I just clean everything in sight, not , this is mine this was yours! Why can’t she have just cleaned up if she was cleaning. If she didn’t want to clean it leave it. I usually always put my dishes in the dishwasher, but I will leave a pan to soak sometimes in the morning while I go take a showers. My husband will never lift a finger to clean that for me. I clean his skillets sometimes because I was cleaning. I wonder to myself why he doesn’t clean it but I just move on. Like Matthews wife , my husband will get annoyed with me at times commenting on every imperfection. Hey I am not you, I am not driven to perfection in those areas. Nothing personal. So I really don’t know if it’s a man versus woman thing either. My husband is not lazy , does his own laundry, cooks, yard , cars. I just wonder how I would feel if he slacked off. Would I notice ? Cause um he left the skillet out. Maybe he does slack off and I just don’t pay attention. Because I am not a controlling person. I don’t parent him.
Nonsense, shr should stop controlling him. I cleaned every crumb up for my insane clean ex husband out of love but we still divorced. She should have taken someone who thinks the same about cleanness if she can’t live like that.
OK guys, I have been married a long time. First things first. You cannot change another person. You can only change your reaction. I hate housework. I am a woman and I hate housework. I hate every bit of it. My husband does not help around the house so we do not live in a pigsty, but, I have nothing like what you see on TV where they have the floors shined to perfection.
The way to keep someone from mistreating you emotionally is the word “no”. Strongest word in the English language. Do not nag. Do not use sarcasm. Do not lie. Do not cheat. Laugh a lot. Enjoy sex with each other. That is pretty much it.
Thank you for sharing this. It is my situation almost to the letter. To break up over a coffee table seems so stupid. I have told him that is the first thing people see when they walk in the door. He just doesn’t care about what bothers me.
Excellent…
You have written the situation with knack and simplicity- It’s never just the glass…whether its half empty or to the top. And the story goes both ways…It really is in that moment when the opportunity is screaming at you that decides the course, do I continue to bitch or concede. However as you have so simplified there is a 3rd option, which encroaches on one’s own vulnerability- to put it out there that despite the glass (or towel or ashtrey) my partner loves me for all my crazy, does not judge me, and understands me at times better than myself and that is better than anything else, unconditionally – no power struggle required, check the ego at the door because we are safe with one and other.
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Seems like your marriage broke up because the both of you couldn’t have adult level conversations with each other. Marriage shouldn’t be a power struggle, its an equal partnership.
If you are in a relationship in which you are “fighting for acknowledgment, respect, validation, and love”, start calling it the Titanic because it is doomed, doomed, doomed; you guys hit the iceberg long ago at that point. That list represents some of the basic foundations of any successful, happy relationship. No way a marriage can work if either party is fighting for the foundation to be present. That needs to be in place first; you pour the foundation long before adding walls and a roof.
Wow, a man that truly gets it. By the time I was done reading this, I was teary. I was not the one that left but I so wanted things to work. I just didn’t understand why he kept ignoring the things that were really important to me, though they were “little things” I felt so unloved, unappreciated, not honored, etc. It has taken so much work to get my self esteem back. Thanks for sharing this. Good luck on your journey.
Nailed it!
This is exactly it. I work full time as a teacher and he works not so full time as a cook at night, i come home to a toddler who has slept extremely late, thus she doesn’t want to sleep until 1 am, he gets home at 11 and goes straight to sleep, snoring very loudly. Then i get up at 5 and do this daily. On the weekends, he still sleeps in. And me, i still get up early to take our child to ballet. Every second he sleeps late is a second closer to a divorce. I’m so tired. He does the same thing with the dishes.
Thank you for getting it. I know it SOUNDS stupid but it matters. Especially when it’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Really well done. You captured the tragedy of the thing, which is that men don’t care about the thing. And women don’t care about the thing. People care about the reasons for thing, and that’s what we miss while we’re all caught up in the things.
The way I this lesson to myself is this: If you see a thing that needs doing, do it. That is all. Do the thing, or else let her see it undone and have her do it. Do it first or consciously make her do it. That’s the only choice there is in household management.
I have to take issue with this. Not the idea that we demonstrate our love by paying attention to the small things…that’s true. Nor that translating love into concrete actions — consistently — will strengthen a marriage; that’s also, obviously, true.
BUT. I’m sorry, this title is ABSURD, and the rest of the post is only marginally less so. No matter how many times you repeat “it’s not about the glass, it’s about love/respect” in this post (most readers probably grasped that without being told, but I guess it never hurts to be explicit), you’re not going far enough down that logical path:
1. It’s not about the glass, it’s about love and respect.
2. Of course if you don’t love or respect your partner, then that’s going to show up in about *ten bazillion* ways, most of which are more significant than a dirty glass.
3. You CAN learn to use the dishwasher! It’s low-hanging fruit, and it demonstrates that you’ve heard her, and that you’re willing to sacrifice 5 seconds for something that matters to her. And that’s what people who love each other do. But do NOT expect your new tidiness to save your marriage…because Jesus, it’s just a glass. If your wife was going to leave you over something so small and insignificant, then she either (A) doesn’t really love you, and/or (B) has serious emotional issues.
I came to your post by way of Eli Bosnick’s horrified response to it on FB. (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10106136202632539&id=838277&pnref=story) The best line: “my wife could take a wet shit on the kitchen floor every morning and I’d buy a better swiffer. A love that depends on never pissing the other person off repeadedly is not love.” Indeed.
In family systems theory, we talk about overfunctioners (i.e., the wife who picks up the slack all the time) and underfunctioners (i.e., passive husbands whose wives pick up their slack). Relationships get stuck in this arrangement, and most people instinctively point the blame at the passive spouse for not being more responsible. But from the family systems perspective, that change isn’t likely to be sustainable. The overfunctioning spouse must change before the underfunctioning one can. That is, overly-responsible wives must stop taking responsibility for their husband’s irresponsibility before their husbands will have any incentive to be more responsible in their own behavior.
Other thoughts: 1) Efforts to change other people tend to be resisted and make people defensive. The more you will people to change, the more they dig in their heels out of spite. 2) Unmotivated people are immune to insight and reason. It wouldn’t have mattered how clearly the wife explained her position; so long as the husband is unmotivated to change, he simply won’t hear anything she says. If you want your spouse to grow up, you have to stay connected to them while changing yourself rather than focusing on trying to change them.
Dr./Mr. Beck. This is awesome.
Thank you.
How do you do this? Do I just leave the garbage to pile up. The last two weeks I have had to run it to the road as the truck was pulling up because he would “get it in the morning” and then didn’t. How long do you let the dishes pile up? How far do you go to be less responsible to make him more responsible?
I left my husband for similar reasons.. It was not a glass by the sink but similar. cleaning to do lists drove me crazy. I can’t event count how many times I would write a list with the same tasks as the week before or the month before. I slowly became his mother.. I bought his clothes, made his doctors appointments, etc. Our relationship was always one sided. We saw the movies he wanted to see or the concerts. I watched hours and hours of sports with him while doing most of my activities alone. I recently started dating and find it interesting just how many men need that type of relationship. It is not something I plan on repeating again. I agree with the majority of your article but I do disagree on the trust and safety issue you bring up.. I think you are giving men too much credit. Women today make good money (If they choose to) and can take care of themselves. That scares a lot of men or at least makes them insecure. I want a partner and not someone I have to take care of. I can take care of myself and do not need to be reminded of such simple adult tasks. I expect my partner to be equal. Equal is sexy. Sure there has to be some give and take but that give and take should be fair.
The unfortunate thing is even though men and women are only physically 2% different we are 100% different in many other ways, especially mentally and emotionally. It is very difficult to determine what bothers women unless they tell you and then you are at least aware of the problem. The problem after that is some women are more emotionally thinking than others but may not seem that way, they may seen ration and logical making the man feel like she gets him. The problem is I have experienced myself situations that women feel that their emotions are facts. In a situation like this there is often no way to even discuss it since it is a feeling not a fact. Emotions are very difficult to deal with especially when they are not explained. If a woman explains what bothers her then at least you can understand what you’re dealing with even though you may never understand or agree with. I think many women need to understand feelings are not facts as is taught in “Recovery” a mental health recovery organization. If she explains how it hurts her then the husband needs to decide if he is willing to give I’m to alleviate the situation. Unfortunately it has to be a two way street that if the husband has issues with things she does that bother him or things that she doesn’t want him to do that bother her. Unfortunately men are often ignored by the wife as his issues are trivial and not important in her mind. This is where it’s important that counseling may come into play for fair and impartial guidance and advice to give them a means of talking about and settling their problems. I ran into a similar stimulation that was more critical. I was scolded for filling the dishwasher from the front to the back. My ex-wife never has a dish washer before we were married and I always pulled out the rack all the way and filled it front to back. I tried to b explain to her either way you are pulling it out equal amounts whichever way you do it. I ended up leaving the dishes in the sink so she could fill the dishwasher the way she wanted to. I found after near 3 decades of an unhappy marriage that she filed for divorce, that she did not and never loved me. When women are very critical of a man its often because they don’t love the man. If a woman loves the man little things don’t bother them. I found that I gave in almost all the time and she still was never happy. I worked very hard at work 40-80 hours a week, helped with the kids from birth and took care of them after 4-6 months and to help her out when she had her own business I cleaned the entire 4 bedroom house every week, cooked dinner, took care of 4 cars, maintenance, washing, kept my clothes picked up, did all the laundry and folded it, except for her hand wash and she would still complain about things.
After ovee 2 years of on and off professional counseling which she went to 8 times she finally filed for divorce. I always tried to talk to her about what was lacking in the marriage that I needed and it was like talking to a wall. In the end the truth came out. After she filed for divorce without even warning me she admitted that she never loved me from the day I asked her to marry me and told me twice a day she loved me. There was another major secret kept from me that explained the problems in the relationship that I cannot divulge. She also refused to try another counselor or a b trial separation after 28 years. She alas o claimed she didn’t want a divorce, loved me and was willing to work on the marriage. In the end she said “I’m not changing for anybody.” Throughout the marriage I was constantly accused of manipulating and lying yet did neither. In the end I found I had been manipulated and lied to about many things. I’m not perfect and never claimed to be, but I did love my wife from day one until the end, but men are not always the problem. To this day I cannot have a conversation with her because she lives in a fantasy world and thinks she was a great, loving wide and didn’t do anything wrong. I worked in law enforcement and about 75% of the men I talked to said they tried ta k king to their wife all the time and they didn’t care. Also whether it was a male/female or male/msle, or female/female relationship they all complained about the same problems. The main object I should many people go into relationships thinking if you love someone things just happen, without any work. If you want a good relationship you need to always be working on it and both people must be fair and willing to make their partner happy. Lastly, if you don’t love someone don’t lie to them and marry them thinking things will work out fine, they wont, it’ll all end in a nasty mess.
Ummmm, I’m thinking I’d like to hear *her* side of the story.
There’s a lot of lack of understanding about women coming through here and the stuff about all her “complaining” even after “all you did” – people who live together and do life together have to be able to dialogue about what works and doesn’t work and what they like and don’t like. Sometimes it’s messy and hard. It’s like men want women to gush over every little thing they do and anything else is “complaining.”
There’s more to this story, I’m certain.
This article is SPOT. ON. You had me in tears. Thank you for showing me that men CAN actually get it.
From a now-divorced, single mum who felt exactly as your ex-wife did. 🙂
Wow, Matthew. You really get women. You truly understand the relationship dynamics between men and women, and how to create a deeply loving relationship. You show how to make it all a win/win for both partners. I really appreciate what you wrote here. It is uplifting to know there are men like you out there who care, and are willing to share what you have learned. Thank you, thank you.
And you really don’t get men….
It’s a two-way straight ladies… not “your way.”
Actually, as a man, this article massively resonated with me because it was abundantly clear that he really DOES get me. This article perfectly describes the way I think, feel and react in this situation – it’s uncanny how much he “gets” me – so I consider it sage advice.
In any case, it’s not saying “men, do it the ladies’ way”. The specific example Matt has picked up on here is indeed something where I suspect there is a fairly strong gender split along those lines – but there will be other subjects where it’s the men who care and the women who don’t understand why men care, and the message will be the same. “If it’s not something that’s important to you, do it their way to show you care about THEM.”
Good work Matt!
Really appreciate it a lot. I’m actually writing a new post about that very specific idea right now for tomorrow. Thank you very much.
This isn’t about her getting her way, dude. It’s about him understanding *WHY* tiny, insignificant things were upsetting her. It took him losing her to see that it wasn’t that she wanted her way – it was that she wanted him to understand HER.
What he’s saying is true but the problem I have with this is that it teaches both men and women that women have no responsibility to their husbands and everything that goes wrong is his fault. Divorce is very rarely completely one sided and the author needs to be upfront about the ways his wife contributed to the destruction of his marriage. Men do need to do better but articles like these are what keeps a lot of guys from wanting to get married in the first place.
Wrong. Women, as a rule, tend to spend a lot of emotional energy on trying to do things that will make their partner feel heard, feel loved. The OP didn’t specifically state that in this blogpost. But I would guess that that is as true for his ex-wife as it is for me.
The fact that I don’t understand why my husband cares so much about X is irrelevant. He cares so much about that, and it’s good enough for me. The ONLY thing that we have regularly fought about is his toxic mother. Because, you know, she’s toxic.
Other things, he actually has learned to care that I care, as much as whether or not it makes sense to him. And I do the same for him, and have, all along.
The whole piece just resonates with me; it’s not the fact that the garage is an impassable mess and has been for 30 something years, it’s that he *knows* it upsets me but refuses to do anything about it. I don’t need him to agree with me or understand why it bothers me, I just want him to believe that it does and therefore want to do something about it. I want the fact that it matters to me to be important to him. And for 30 years I have been explaining this to him to no effect. It makes me feel completely insignificant.
Have you ever thought about the fact that maybe, the way things are in the garage are like that for a reason to him? What if having the things in the garage is important and matters to him, would you then understand and respect that? That is when dialogue is important, and if you cant see that, you are just a feminist who want your “husband” to do things your way just because.
Funny how men and women see different things in all this.
Personally, I think he’s as crazy as she is. If he had started putting the glass away, she’d have wanted something else. People who are constantly creating tests and demanding proof of love/respect/devotion – can’t ever get enough proof.
I’m happy for him that she’s gone. He’s got one less nutcase in his life. But it’s clear that he learned the wrong lessons from the experience and will repeat the mistake again at the next opportunity.
In isolation, I’d agree with you. The glass thing — which is more metaphor than literal in the context of my first-person experience — is indicative of a systemic problem I accidentally displayed in my relationship. One in which my thoughts, feelings and opinions ranked higher than hers (to me) anytime I believe I was “right” and she was “wrong.”
People with so-called “color-correct” vision quite literally see something different than someone who is colorblind. Through their respective prisms, when they describe what they see, both are correct. Neither are “wrong” or “crazy” or “stupid.”
Two people accurately reporting what they’re experiencing, yet they’re worlds apart.
You have two choices:
1. Mistreat, disrespect, reject, withhold love from every romantic partner who doesn’t agree with your experience. Or…
2. Love and respect your spouse or partner enough to let their experiences — some of which are different than yours — be honored.
When she says “This hurts me,” and you say, “You’re crazy for thinking so. I wouldn’t be hurt by that, so I’m just going to keep doing it” you’re eventually going to get divorced. Or maybe she’ll stay and resent you and secretly fantasize about someone else.
That’s a choice people are allowed to make. Since I have more faith in humanity than that, I believe MOST people who marry aspire to more than a shitty marriage.
If you’re always trying to “win,” you’ll lose. If you’re always trying to work together to arrive at truth cooperatively, you’ll stay married forever, and it won’t suck.
Think I’m crazy, if you must. But if you read what I just wrote and remember it and apply it, you’ll discover easily enough how not-crazy this is.
It’s not about the dish. It’s about the thing she cares about that you don’t.
You best figure out how to honor it anyway if marriage is on the line, and a successful marriage is something you value.
I stopped reading after the third paragraph. What a bunch of third-wave feminist crap.
If she told you she disliked glasses by the sink, you’re an idiot for not listening and it’s got nothing to do with dishes, but the fact that you didn’t listen.
If she didn’t tell you about her ideas, she’s an idiot for not communicating her feelings and preferences.
Ultimately, it’s never about the dishes or the toilet seat or whatever else you probably whined about.
My last relationship, the best thing we taught one another was OWN YOUR SHIT.
My example: I almost always opened the door for my gf (car door or whatever) because I wanted to. I felt like honoring her in these little ways and she felt honored. In fact, when I occasionally didn’t get the door for her, she’d get hurt and upset because she felt I didn’t respect her.
I had no idea she felt that way, until she TOLD ME. I was looking at it from my perspective; I was doing it because I wanted to but occasionally I didn’t want to, so I didn’t.
Once she told me, she could OWN HER SHIT and understand HER feelings had nothing to do with ME or what I did or didn’t do.
But once she told me, I understood how she had felt valued by my actions, so we both came to a new understanding and grew closer together. I kept opening doors for her and she could also not become upset when once in a while, I let her get her own door.
Small example, but illustrative of how you really need to work on your maturity and communication.
Neat feedback. Three paragraphs and you have me and marriage all figured out.
Thanks, champ.
Clearly, you do not. This article is shit.
Source: 13 years of happy marriage.
Thanks for putting out another unfounded fucking hit piece on your fellow man.
You seem like an absolute bundle of joy.
Happiest marriage ever, I bet.
If you try hard, you can probably be happy in other parts of your life too, including not being a presumptuous cock in internet comments.
Sorry about the haters on here, thanks for sharing your thoughts. They will be beneficial to many I am sure.
Sorry about the rude closed minded people here. This was a great article that brings up some ways of thinking men typically aren’t used to. Some people get defensive over new things and refuse to believe anything but their own view of the world.
So good.
Great response, Matt. Loved your article. Best line IMHO: “When you choose to love someone, it becomes your pleasure to do things that enhance their lives and bring you closer together, rather than a chore.”
Geez Matt…snark aint exactly a good look.
Right!? I have maturity issues. Work in progress.
I concur. The idea that only the man should change ina relationship is fucking absurd.
The idea that we don’t accept our partner’s flaws is fucking absurd.
The idea that we must change our partner to fit us is fucking absurd.
As long as you acknowledge you haven’t the first idea what I believe because you haven’t read anything (which is fine — just don’t talk out of your ass), I’m super-cool with this take.
If you want to sound like an informed person, come back later when you actually understand what I believe and why before spitting out “fucking absurd”-ity charges.
Two people with working brains PURPOSEFULLY decide to get married, understanding all of the risks and well-publicized challenges. Pretty smart people most of the time, who can speak the same language and stuff.
And then, with mathematical precision, half of them divorce within a decade, and countless more are fucking miserable and having affairs.
The MAJORITY of marriages fail.
The implications of that are astonishing to me.
Don’t act all butt-hurt because I think men should own their role in the breakdown of their marriages.
There’s a better way of doing things.
I’m sure you and I agree on much more than you realize. But if you think as a writer, I should be pointing fingers at anyone but myself (and metaphorically, any guys who think and behave as I used to–and still sometimes do), then I think you have things to learn about connecting with other people.
Disconnected people die lonely and depressed, maybe with mouth herpes and a nice case of penile burning sensations.
Connected people die happy and content, satisfied with a life well-lived, and leaving a legacy their children and families are proud of and will remember fondly.
Choose one.
DING DING DING. What MATT SAID.
Both people have to continue to want to make their CHOSEN LIFE PARTNER happy. Throughout the course of the marriage/relationship. Not every day, sure. I don’t wake up singing zippadeedoodah every day, hell no.
But every fucking day.
Do you eat off the clean plates that magically appear back in the cupboards?
Do you like the clean house?
Do you appreciate reaching in and grabbing clean underwear/socks/shirts/what have you when you are getting dressed?
Do you piss in a relatively clean toilet on the regular?
Do you like the pantry stocked?
Do you enjoy having toilet paper at the ready when you have to wipe your ass?
Unless you are PAYING someone to do it, or you still rely on your mother, or you do it yourself, have a little gratitude.
Because, motherfucker, it’s not the goddamned fairies who do it. It’s your SPOUSE. And that person – yes, I am speaking from personal experience here – will want to RUN THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU if you don’t get off your entitled high horse and say thank you every once in a while! And maybe, yes, maybe, do it without being asked!
I am butthurt because I communicate about it and only sometimes do I get a little help without having to badger for it. Take your ‘fucking absurd,’ put it in a pipe, and smoke it.
man, I love you guys…! but this is why I could never blog…all the criticism and judgment coming from people who (often) don’t even read the posts…its not like matt is saying he did EVERYTHING wrong and his wife did EVERYTHING right and that ALL marriages are like this….I appreciate your bravery for putting yourselves out there and telling your sides of the story–it is helpful to a lot of people, including me.
“Unless you are PAYING someone to do it, or you still rely on your mother, or you do it yourself, have a little gratitude. ”
Actually, unless you are doing it yourself have a little gratitude. No one likes picking up shit for others – not for money , not for love.
Boom. Nailed it.
I am sick of being the house project manager and asking for help. It’s ridiculous.
A lot of marriages do end early due to money problems, I don’t know the precentage off hand but it’s pretty high. 7 years of marriage, and it’s still hard, it has it’s ups and downs, no ones marriage is perfect.
It’s me again.
Every morning I come down to either rinsed dishes (so, a half-assed job) or a sink full of clutter. The other day I put my foot down to the whole crew: I am DONE cleaning up after you. I included my husband. He was taken aback. He doesn’t even SEE THAT HE DOES IT. This morning I came down to “rinsed” dishes. That could have been put in the almost full dishwasher, which could have been run last night, so that we could have emptied it today, and not have to dealt with it tonight.
WHY AM I THE ONLY PERSON THAT SEES THIS? And the things that need to get done “after?”
This was a very interesting read that ties in nicely to Matt’s article:
http://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/
I suggest others check it out.
What we’re dealing with here has now been labeled “Emotional Labor”
Your reply was longer than the blog post! If you had taken the time to read it, you would have noticed that Matt already figured it all out. You actually sound like you still have respect issues.
Similar to what I wanted to say. Maybe, just MAYBE, it wasn’t about all that emotional crap, and it was about putting your GD DISHES in the dishwasher!!
I totally agree with you Norseman, it is not about doing it in one or other way because that person feels disrespected, it is about telling the other person how you feel. Not listening to that is each ones mistake, but the important thing is that everything must be said and never expect the other person to know because it seems “obvious”.
This comment:
“Once she told me, she could OWN HER SHIT and understand HER feelings had nothing to do with ME or what I did or didn’t do”
Im going to call you out on that. When you are in a relationship the point should be about being able to affect each other. What you do that builds up her emotions and what she does to build up yours become the buffer against all the stupid tiny seemingly insignificant things you will (or she will) or that life will do to seemingly bring it down. This is the old addage of do the good times outweigh the bad. You do effect each other and if you are not then you using each other to fill some sort of need but you are not in a relationship. So you need to own your shit AND her shit and she needs to own her shit AND your shit.
Yes.
The Wild Norseman is describing conversations one has with oneself and each other during the dating “should we get married?” period.
And you are describing MARRIAGE.
The first is two people deciding whether or not to partner for life.
The second is no longer just two people. Marriage is one big, important thing. Like an airplane. And the two married people represent the two things that make it fly — the engines and the wings.
Planes don’t fly with working engines and no wings. Planes don’t fly with attached wings, but no engine thrust.
Marriage is about two people putting the safety and overall functionality of the aircraft in it’s proper place — as the most important thing.
Keep her…she seems like a good human being, as do you. Best to you both!
I feel sorry for you. But alas, you’re learning to become a better person.
I do think it’s petty matter, but I sort of got where she came from, and I think how you managed to finally understand can be construed as the proof that you did love her, enough to bridge your gap with her eventhough it’s too late. Sorry for that, Matt, I hope you can get your happy ending eventually, with her or anyone else.
I think it’s not about misogynistic or feministis stuffs. Think of it this way- we know people in the dating phase can do stupid things all.in the name of love, right? Like dancing in the rain. Going to her window with guitar and playing some pathetic music while her dad peeking from the other window with guns in his arms. How she’s very crappy in cooking, but she tries making chocolate bites for her crush during Valentine’s Day, and probably still managed to produce crappy salty chocolate snacks with ugly shape in the end. How she dislikes dress, and yet bears with the whole bridal dress because she wants to look pretty for her groom. How he thinks it’s stupid, but slaving over diamond ring and bending his knees to ask her to marry him. Or maybe somekind of “epic” proposal.
We know these are stupids. Those who did it know it’s stupid too- they’re lying if they say it’s not stupid and they’re not ashamed of it.
I guess when you’re married, all those big, epic ways to prove your love becomes very simple and petty. You’re so right that it looks petty, on my good days I probably would see it as no big deal as well. On some days tho, it’s very nice and emotionally-boosting when you see your partner goes out of their comfortable ways, to make an attempt at proving their loves for you. You think it’s stupid, she knows you think it’s stupid, and that you go out of your way to still do it for her can make her feel loved indeed. Some guys can do it as nice surprises every now and then. It’s indeed a simple, petty thing. But when you see it this way, it’s no different from a girl or a woman in dating phase, wanting or wishing for their partners to do something to prove their loves.
It can be surprising them with queueing for that concert ticket or the newest book/gadget for hours. Or suddenly pouring honey over their heads to attract butterflies. Or suddenly make an advertisement on a stadium- “I Love You XXX, Would You Marry Me?”… These big, amazing, stupid things to do. You’d never do it to anyone, you’d never do it if you’re not in love. And when you’re married, it’s calming down into something as simple as going out of your way to put the glass in the right place- you think it’s stupid and petty, she knows she’s being petty as well, but nonetheless when you do it /for her/ she feels the love you have for her.
It’s just too bad that some men can’t see it this way.
Nope. I would much rather my husband properly shared the physical and mental load of parenthood and housework than made grand gestures of love. I know he loves me, he tells me constantly, but showing me by making my life easier, taking some of the pressure off me so that at some point there is even one thing that I don’t have to think or worry about, would mean more to me than any Sky writing nonsense. That’s real love – supporting and helping your partner. Since we had children, my entire life and mental space is given over to caring for the children and for him, taking care of the house, ensuring the kids have clothes that fit them, car seats that aren’t too small, planning meals and buying food for them, managing medications and hospital appointments, making bottles and meals, managing allergies and symptoms, etc etc. To have just one or two things where I don’t need to be involved, where he takes charge and says “let me worry about that” would prove his love far more.
Unfortunately, like too many men, although he does help with the physical practical tasks when requested, it’s never proactive and it’s up to me to continually assess what needs doing. And as so many here have pointed out, that’s the issue. And those who dismiss how much energy this takes are the ones who’ve never done it.
Good article and important message about respecting and caring about one’s partner. But it works both ways. It could just as well be a father on paternity leave who cleans the house and gets annoyed when his wife leaves dishes or glasses by the sink. Equally men can feel sad, unloved and disrespected when their partner yells at them for simply leaving their glass by the sink. Why are you trying to reinforce false stereotypes?
I’m not trying to reinforce any true or false stereotypes.
I’m trying to get men to understand what empathy means, and to learn to see the world through the viewpoint of others.
In the case of a marriage or romantic partnership, I believe it’s the ONLY way to make it work. To make it lifelong with two content and happy people.
I’m trying to start conversations. To provoke thoughts. To get people to ask better questions.
And I’m proud that little old me has been able to do those things to the degree my writing has.
If you think I’m anti-men, or blame men exclusively for relationship failure, then you’re jumping to highly misinformed conclusions based on one thing you read out of context.
Ironically, that is exactly the sort of thing we need to NOT do in our relationships if we want them to not fall apart.
Yes, but the thing is it is scarily hard to do things you don’t really care about. Your brain just erases them from your view, so when you see the sink, you don’t really see the sink and a glass on it, you actually don’t really see anything, your brain processes the image of sink and put ‘sink is there’ sticker in front. Unless you need a sink, you don’t pay attention to this label, so all details are hidden from view.
So what we have is two people — one of them has difficulty of viewing the sink, and second thinks their partner doesn’t respect them.
Obviously there are a lot of things in the house that work this way: one partner feels that one group of things is important, second feel this way about another group of things.
And unless this respect and strife to go out of your way to watch yourself to not do things the way your partner feels offended goes both ways, it simply won’t work.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that a guy who doesn’t “see” things sometimes because he doesn’t care can start to care simply because of the attached significance.
These really are the things that end most relationships.
Once a person realizes this, these little things become easy to notice. One must simply apply the correct amount of danger to these “inconsequential” things. If we love our spouses, it’s really not a hard thing at all.
I don’t agree with you on this one Matt. I absolutely agree with the *importance* of this, but I don’t agree that once you’ve identified the problem, the solution is easy. I think Igor has an excellent point. The problem is that we’re dealing with the conscious vs the subconscious. It’s all very well for the conscious mind to decide “right, I am going to care about this” – that’s the key first step, and it means that if you notice something that will matter to your partner, you’ll choose to sort it out. But the subconscious mind doesn’t give you a choice. It’s running an automated program. Unless that program tags something for escalation to the conscious mind, you don’t notice, you don’t get to choose. And the subconscious mind is really hard to reprogram.
I’m struggling with this right now – I’ve been making a determined effort to do the things that are important to my wife, and I have a solid record now of doing the things I spot. But spotting them remains patchy. I’m having to consciously use a mental checklist of things I need to look for as they MIGHT need action, until that eventually nudges my subconscious to start looking for them as I walk by.
By the way, have you seen https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked? Tangentially related and also struck a chord.
We may totally be talking about two different things. I, in no way, believe that I know exactly how your mind works.
I am the in the top 1% of people in the world who can demonstrate forgetfulness or a lack of awareness.
We can’t know what we can’t know. Ever. I just mean, we can learn to see the dish by the sink is meaning more than nothing.
I did see the–comic?–that you shared here. Read it yesterday, thanks to a couple of people sharing it with me.
I think it’s a fair representation of a common relationship, and doesn’t blame anyone.
It’s the not blaming people part that I really like the most.
“I just mean, we can learn to see the dish by the sink is meaning more than nothing.”
Sure, we agree on that. But Igor’s point is that this doesn’t actually solve the problem until we learn to see the dish by the sink *at all*. You said in your previous reply that once a person realizes that the dish has significance, it becomes “easy to notice”, but it doesn’t. The brain has spent years filtering out that dish, and you can’t start acting on your wonderful new worldview until you train it not to.
I should choose my words more carefully. I don’t disagree with anything you just said.
The only point I wanted to make was that I believe once the full significance of these things hits us (all these things I remember not giving a crap about that I now realize led to the end of my marriage — they HURT. They left a mark.) … so now I feel like it’s easy for me to identify these things.
On the other hand. I’m a single father now, and my son’s mother and I still very much have a relationship in making sure he has what he needs for school, and coordinating schedules and all kinds of stuff.
Rest assured, I’m objectively horrible at being mindful of things like getting to the grocery store so that I have good lunch things to pack for him. That I have certain outfits prepared for him when necessary, or his sports uniforms washed, or that I’m on top of his activity calendar or homework.
It’s a constant reminder that without the right partner who has the right mindset and temperment, I’m something of a danger to a stable relationship.
So, please forgive me if I sounded like I thought I was all smart and righteous and on top of shit. I’m really not.
Perhaps I misunderstood Igor because, like my son’s school calendar, I wasn’t playing close enough attention.
I appreciate you going to bat for him, and for being honest about your experiences at home.
Can I say, respectfully, without trying to be hurtful to Igor or Chris, but to a woman this logic of the “subconscious mind” and “filtering” sounds like an excuse. I have a doctorate in science so I have no trouble understanding your meaning. But it rings false. It does go back to empathy. It is not about the subconscious. A person is either capable of empathy or not (or they need to learn it). When your spouse, whether male or female, tells you once or twice or three times that something matters to them there is nothing to filter. Applying that empathy to other situations takes practice yes, and the mental checklist may be a temporary assist, but that system will ultimately fail without empathy. And you will eventually burn out trying to do things this way because from your end this will get to be mentally and emotionally tiring. You will become resentful when you overlook something not on your list and your wife/spouse snaps over it. Because there was no empathy or connection to what they are ultimately saying to you – that they don’t feel valued.
Women don’t want to be with men who have to create “checklists” of things that matter to them – the reason being that such lists always carry the risk of overlooking or “forgetting” something. Have you ever created a grocery list and despite writing down an item have forgotten/overlooked to buy an item? I have. the mental checklist is, at the end of the day, just a list – it’s not an act of love or understanding, it’s a way for a man to “keep track” of what he is doing, something concrete that he can fall back on and say see, I’m trying. But it lacks the infusion of emotional value that your spouse is really looking for. If the message was clear, that you value them, and you say it and show it with words and actions and connect their their sense of being valued, your list will be far easier to manage and less charged for being imperfect on occasion.
as an aside, i’ve been reading a lot about some of these behaviors and the literature indicates that men tend to have more issues with this type of thing than women. is it possible (and this is not a rhetorical question) that filtering or subconsciously not recognizing something as important to your spouse is not something based on gender specific neural wiring but rather a trait that [men] increasingly are exhibiting toward their wives?
https://www.amazon.com/Keys-Eliminating-Passive-Aggressiveness-Mental-Health/dp/0393708462/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1495632095&sr=8-1&keywords=passive+aggressive+8+keys
https://www.amazon.com/Living-Passive-Aggressive-Man-Aggression-Boardroom/dp/0671870742/ref=pd_bxgy_14_img_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0671870742&pd_rd_r=QQPG09HDBRB5Z7FR0SB8&pd_rd_w=UrpWA&pd_rd_wg=oDR5Y&psc=1&refRID=QQPG09HDBRB5Z7FR0SB8
these books really helped me to understand what was happening in my marriage and some insight into my own behavior as well. Most people exhibit some form of this behavior in their lives or relationships but the real problem is when it is a person’s ONLY way of coping or dealing with challenges and you have a partner who does not cope this way. A key issue with this behavior is lack of insight into the fact that one may be exhibiting this, which is harder to fix and takes a lot of commitment.
I’ve walked through the kitchen half a dozen times today. I always had a place to go or a thing to do, upon which I was focused. So when I read your post, I went back to the kitchen, this time to specifically look to see if there was anything in there that I should have done. Sure enough, the laundry basket had enough in it for a load of laundry. On none of the previous occasions did I *look* at the laundry basket – I was too focused on what I was doing, and didn’t think to take this opportunity to check whether there were any jobs I could do.
This sucks. I suck. I’m not trying to excuse it. I’m lacking something. But is it really *empathy* that I’m lacking here? I feel like I completely understand my wife’s feelings. I can see the world from her viewpoint. I care. I want to do better. But we all work on autopilot a lot of the time when we’re doing something we’ve done a million times before, like going to get a drink. Hers works differently to mine. I think “I need a drink”, and my autopilot takes me to the kitchen, manipulates my hands to get a drink and brings me back. Hers does the same thing, but also gets her to glance at the linen basket, and undoubtedly a bunch of other stuff. I need to retrain mine to be like hers, and I’m trying, but it takes time. There’s no way around that – the only way to retrain the autopilot is to switch it off and do things consciously until the ol’ muscle memory changes to match. So that’s not the issue – the issue is that I forget to switch off the autopilot. I don’t think it’s a lack of empathy that causes this; it’s not about what I value, or that I can’t see her perspective, it’s that I don’t have the mental discipline to *always* see her perspective. To take a hundred things that I ordinarily do without thinking, and to inject thinking into all of them. That’s what this takes – not just thinking differently, but thinking where you previously weren’t thinking, and that’s hard.
FWIW, I don’t think there’s anything gender specific about this. There are loads of things my wife does without thinking, and if I wanted her to change one of them, I firmly predict she’d have just as much trouble.
(Yes, I’ve now put the washing on 😉
Chris, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean there was anything lacking in you or that you suck. The fact that you missed the laundry isn’t unusual or abnormal. It was what i was alluding to in my post that it isn’t sustainable – you will make yourself crazy doing this. I also don’t think it is a question of retraining yourself to think like her either. Connecting with her sense of value has less to do with doing the laundry 10 out of 10 times and more to do with a shared sense of “we’re in this together”. Right now you are playing a game of “catch up” and in family life there is so much going on you are never “caught up”. there is always something not getting done fast enough and it’s unrealistic to expect that a person can anticipate your needs 100% of the time. my husband would approach this and describe this very much as you are doing and I would struggle as I am doing now to describe what is wrong with that approach and why it isn’t what i am looking for. but for lack of a better way to articulate it, it is that shared sense of being a team and working together. most women, including myself, complain of a sense of isolation in the marriage. physical isolation is what you [men] become focused on – the tasks and chores etc. and the man’s way of approaching this is by doing what you are doing. it’s straightforward, concrete. but physical isolation for women is rooted in their mental and emotional isolation which is more abstract and harder to tackle. Does your wife feel you support her dreams, her goals, her vision for your future together (physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, etc.) (and does she do this for you?) – is it really a shared sense between you? is there a shared sense of needing/wanting/putting effort into spending time together, creating a home life, balancing children/work, money, etc. And are you still able to function as individuals and appreciate each other’s individuality? I was reading an article about how men in marriage may lose their drive, or personal goals and this makes them less attractive to their wives – it sounds shallow but it is true (and the same would go for women) – lack of interest in doing things or setting personal goals for yourself can really stymie a relationship if one partner wants to grow and the other just wants to be taken care of. Underlying that, i would add that if a woman feels a man can’t take care of himself and his own needs, how is he going to take care of her? (and vice versa).
i don’t know your particular situation and there are always a lot of factors that go in to this type of thing. i hope i haven’t added to your confusion. it’s nice you did the washing :).
And then we have THIS side. Thank you, Ana.
Because, yeah. It was never really about the dish.
I want to state for the record that THIS, right here, is EXACTLY my experience, and why I defend good men who are shitty husbands.
This is it. Totally and completely.
We exist every day for decades. And then one day, realize we’re “doing it wrong.”
And I agree! I have no excuses nor am I trying to get out of anything. For years, I “did it wrong,” because like you mentioned, Chris, I was always focused on one mission, even if that “mission” was something inconsequential to others. At any given time, I have one task — a singular purpose for whatever I’m doing in that moment — and then when it’s completed OR something more pressing (or more distracting :/) occurs, I move onto the next thing.
My great life struggle is my inability to think of things I’m not currently thinking of. Without some type of memory trigger, any given thought could theoretically go un-thought-of for eternity.
I don’t know how much of this is normal and healthy. I don’t know how much is some grand deficiency on my part. I don’t know how much of it is a byproduct of my life conditioning from my adult behavior models growing up, or the actions of my parents, or the things I was or wasn’t taught in school, or whatever. I don’t really know anything.
But I’m pretty sure this very condition totally ruins relationships SLOWLY over a period of time, and I think this Lack of Awareness + Incremental Resentment Building + Typical Human Miscommunication = [INSERT SUPER-LOUD EXPLOSION SOUND HERE]
And I agree with your final point, Chris. I don’t think it’s gender-specific in a biological way. But I DO think it’s gender-specific in a You Can Observe This To Be Generally True Most Of The Time kind-of way that I’m pretty sure has to do with how are minds form watching and listening to adults and seeing stuff on TV growing up.
All I know is it’s a big-ass problem.
Chris, you did a kick-ass job explaining this. Thank you.
Dude stop blaming yourself for everything. And please for the love of God post some issues that you had with your wife. She couldn’t have been perfect and I think you are giving both women and men the idea that marriages are one sided and the only person whose feelings matter are the wives.
1. I’ve posted plenty of issues I had with my wife. This is just one post of several hundred. As a general rule, casting blame on others is an uncool thing to do.
2. I think you might be giving me a little too much credit. Marriage (or an equivalent) has been around for several thousands of years.
I certainly am not trying to advocate that only one member of a marriage should matter, nor put an unfair portion of responsibility on anyone.
I want whatever is the most true, most correct, best possible thing to happen in all situations, for all people, all the time.
I’m an idiot sometimes, but I’m not an evil one. I only want good thing for everyone.
The truth is the truth, no matter what any of us think or feel.
But because I think and feel as I do, I write things the way I do. And sometimes it helps people.
Um, are you familiar with women at all?
How many men do you know, MEN, not twenty-somethings who are still taking their gap-decade or whatever, that have taken the paternity leave and still do the cooking, the cleaning, the shopping, the child care, the yard care, and have 100% reversed the roles during the child rearing years? Seriously. I’m not joking. How many?
I know exactly 1. It was my uncle. And he did all of that stuff while my aunt was an executive at a hospital while my cousins were infants. As soon as they were launched into school, he started a business. He didn’t draw it out for 15 years.
I know a lot of contemporary men who work full time, and do the yard work. They “watch” their kids while their wives do something like book club. Because, you know, they are the sperm donors and only have an hour to spare.
The wives? They work full time, do house work, help with yard stuff, do the cooking, the cleaning, the fetching of the children, the doctor’s appointments, the vet appointments.
The stereotype exists, and it’s not false. Get real. Don’t co-opt this.
You take a slightly harsher tone than I personally prefer to myself, but damn, you’re a fantastic writer.
These can’t be the first comments of yours I’ve read, so I’m embarrassed that I haven’t noticed this before.
Thank you for being part of the conversation (and I don’t just mean that because you’re “on my side” in this particular convo — I’m confident there are plenty of things you’d take me to task for if we ever got there).
I hope you’re writing somewhere.
I blush… I guess being an English major really paid off! I don’t write, except in my head. Your post really hit a nerve with me, and I’ve been following it for a while. Thank you for your compliment, really. Someday I will write again, much to the dismay of many friends and enemies… 🙂
I love snark. It works for me, I guess. And sometimes the harshness just needs to come out, especially when people say stupid things like “why are you reinforcing false stereotypes?” Zero to ten thousand in, like, nothing.
I love the writing styles of Jenny Lawson, Laurie Notaro and dooce (before she got commercialized). Check ’em out. And, be well!
Yeah sure, it could be. How many men do you know in that situation, compared to how many women? And the couple of guys I know who are stay at home dads are still mothered and managed by their wives in ways that wouldn’t be true if the situation were reversed.
This is a systemic problem – just as not all BME people have experienced significant racism, not all women have experienced this problem, but that doesn’t negate the fact that the vast majority do.
Do you want to argue about that, or be part of improving it? Fighting about it isn’t constructive – stopping with the defensive bullshit and actually trying to change it is how things change for the better.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us
get your popcorn ready….
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I came across your article on social media and i wanted to say thank you for writing it. I know its caused a lot of controversy and people obviously are heated over it. But i find myself in a similar situation and i’ve never had someone put it to words with two sides to the though process. So i wanted to say thank you for saying it. It highlighted whats going on with my relationship, how to to process it and hopefully change. So though many people may be angry with you and possibly angry at me for saying it, thank you.
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Just thank you. You put into words how I felt when I told my boyfriend how I felt and he said I was just saying he did everything wrong. I was telling him how I felt. And I didn’t understand why he and many other men got so upset with me about saying what I wanted. They could just leave me if it was that bad. Then I end up leaving and they give me rave reviews as a girlfriend. WTF. I am ending this pattern. Either we work it out or end it. Women are in tune with what we need and men can also do this. Thanks and keep writing please. ??
It’s irritating that you can sit and write this blog all about how a glass caused your wife to leave. I’m sure there were far more issues that led to the split. Husbands and wives should give 50/50 and maybe you weren’t doing your part. So get over the glass. You lost. It’s more than dishes.
http://mssv.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/tommy-lee-jones-header.jpg
It’s irritating that you don’t know what you’re talking about, and missing the entire point. But by all means, carry on.
I think you just weren’t good enough in bed.. sorry to break it to you this way. Women usually put up with a lot of shit with the worst of men while they get all bitchy with ‘nice guys’. I don’t think it has anything to do with a glass by the sink. Let it sink..
Ha. I’m sure that’s it! After all of this time, you figured it out.
Feel free to get back to your bidding on pro wrestling action figures on eBay.
wow you’ve got me there.. pro wrestling action figures clearly my style. you must be really good at reading people. Wonder how you misread you ex so wrong..
I might have been harsh here, but mate, trust me, you are better off without this horrible person in your life. Plus you became a beloved celebrity among egomaniac women. So cheer up, so many good things came to you from this divorce!
Shows what you know – I’d happily put up with rubbish sex if my husband actually pulled his weight and shared the mental load.
Obviously, Mel, you didn’t read the whole article and/or comprehend it.
Wow Mel, did you even read the post??
So, this has nothing to do with men or women. Not cleaning up after yourself isn’t a male trait, nor is wanting others to clean up (be responsible for yourself and your actions) a female trait. There is no sex-based genetic predisposition to either not cleaning up or wanting others to not dump their responsibilities on you.
You don’t need 1,852 words for this. Regardless of sex, the type of relationship, age, religion/lack thereof, just be responsible and don’t expect others to clean up after you. If you live with someone, it’s a safe bet to just clean up after yourself. It doesn’t matter if it’s your wife, child, family member, friend, or random roommate: no-one should have to clean up after another perfectly capable human being.
TLDR; communicate openly and don’t expect others to cleanup after you regardless of the relationship.
Totally agree Tyler. But being an industrious house cleaner is as far from the point as I’m trying to make.
The dish is mostly a metaphor. It can just as easily be someone throwing dirty socks or a wet towel on the floor. Letting the gas light come on in the family vehicle. Not filling up the ice cube tray. Not putting the toilet seat down. Peeing on it. Leaving crumbs on the couch. ANYTHING that negatively affects someone you live with and love.
Sometimes, two people have radically different responses to the same event.
And in marriage, one must love their spouse enough to mindfully care about things simply because your partner does.
Even if it doesn’t faze you. Even if it’s a gender-reversal. Even if it’s kids and their mom, or two college roommates, or two office co-workers.
When you love and respect others, you give a shit about things on their behalf, even if on its own, it doesn’t matter to you.
THAT is the point. And it’s a significant one.
It’s not about dishes. It never was.
I completely understand that it’s not entirely about the dishes. I’m also gathering that maybe it wasn’t just one glass since you’ve said “dishes” to myself, others, and in your follow-up article. From a standpoint outside of “men do this,” and “women do that,” it has nothing to do with love. It’s about being considerate, responsible, and, yes, respectful of others. It just has nothing at all to do with a man somehow being preordained to be a slob.
If two people live together and one is having to constantly clean up or live in the filth of the other, it’s about disrespect (as you’ve sort of said while also blaming it on being a male) and apparent inconsideration.
We’re *almost* on the same page, it’s just that you seem to have this idea that because you’re a male then you’re naturally an inconsiderate slob. I’m not trying to insult you – just an observation.
“Men are perfectly capable of doing a lot of these things our wives complain about. What we are not good at is being psychic, or accurately predicting how our wives might feel about any given thing because male and female emotional responses tend to differ pretty dramatically.”
It isn’t about being psychic nor being a male. Cleaning up after yourself is just something that any mature, responsible modern human should do – and not expect others to do for them.”
“The wife doesn’t want to divorce her husband because he leaves used drinking glasses by the sink.
She wants to divorce him because she feels like he doesn’t respect or appreciate her, which suggests he doesn’t love her, and she can’t count on him to be her lifelong partner. She can’t trust him. She can’t be safe with him. Thus, she must leave and find a new situation in which she can feel content and secure.”
Look at it this way: if you live on your own you either do the dishes yourself or have no clean dishes. Or a dirty shower. Or no clean clothes. Or a crumby couch. Or a dirty toilet. A husband/wife/roommate shouldn’t *have* to clean up after him/herself as well as the other person. If it’s a task that wouldn’t get done if you lived on your own and didn’t have a house cleaning service, do it yourself even if you have a spouse/partner.
Did you make the mess completely on your own? If so, you should take care of it. Did someone else make the mess completely on their own? You get the idea. Now, if it’s something like dirt and grime from foot traffic that both people contribute to, just communicate and share the responsibility of vacuuming/sweeping and mopping.
No-one is ever going to get mad at you for cleaning up after yourself. It *has* to be about the dishes. Because if you did the dishes you wouldn’t have been assuming she would clean up after you. It’s not a metaphor. It’s more like a symbolic act, really. Or maybe, more accurately, a symbolic inaction.
“When you love and respect others, you give a shit about things on their behalf, even if on its own, it doesn’t matter to you.” This is the underlying issue. It’s not about love. You seem to be saying that cleaning up isn’t a big deal to you. If you want to be a slob, that’s fine, until your lack of cleaning affects someone else. If I marry a messy, inconsiderate girl I’m definitely not going to expect her to change years of habits because they “love” me.
Might be a little verbose and repetitive. I’m tired.
Please don’t mind me mistakenly saying it’s not a metaphor and then saying it is. Whoops haha
“Did you make the mess completely on your own? If so, you should take care of it. Did someone else make the mess completely on their own? You get the idea.”
But, that’s where things start to fall apart when you live with other people. Separating messes made completely on your own and community messes can be difficult.
My husband once said he shouldn’t have to help clean anything in the kitchen, because he didn’t go in there. Therefore, when I cooked dinner, put it on a clean plate, and brought it to him in the living room, the mess in the kitchen was a mess I made completely on my own.
The mess under the table, where the kids ate, was made completely by them – but they were too young to clean it themselves. So who’s job was it to clean that? Well since my husband didn’t go in the kitchen, certainly not his was his point of view.
It’s strange isn’t it? Men aren’t genetically predisposed to be slobs so why are so many women complaining of this issue?
It’s self-perpetuating. Children grow up in households like this, seeing those gender roles in action – the girls see their mothers managing everything with occasional requested assistance from their fathers, the boys see their fathers having little to do with managing the home and the cycle continues. It’s not a coincidence that I manage my entire home and children, and my brother can barely use a washing machine.
perfect response.
i am referring to Matt’s response…..
this is a perfect response Matt.
I don’t agree with this at all. This is control & manipulation by women: “If you care about how I feel then you must do what I want”. Yes, each person should give strong weight to the preferences of their partner (regardless of the “logic” in it), but a good relationship should respect differences. If the man has a very good reason for not putting the glass in the dishwasher and he genuinely feels strongly that is more important than her wish for him to put it in there (as distinct from opposing her desires for the sake of being in control), then she needs to let him make that decision. Likewise vice versa for things he may want her to do (e.g. shaving certain hair, wearing certain things, doing certain acts) – he also needs to respect her right to say no (without her having to persuade him logically).
“doing certain acts”? talk about control and manipulation.
exactly. I’m not sure what your point is?
You see David? As soon as you venture outside the feedback loop, you are summarily dismissed. You are toxic…lol.
Uh, a good reason being you don’t have any arms??? How hard is it to but a glass in the dishwasher, David?
I think you’re proving my point – arguing logically why your opinion is right. Matt’s already given reasons why someone (man or woman) might not want to put it in the dishwasher, e.g. they’re planning to use it again. Why should one view take precedent over the other? Using emotional blackmail to win the argument is not love. It has to go both ways.
My only counter to this David would be the importance of selfless love and respect in marriage.
Sure. I want to leave my drinking glass there. And I find it annoying that she cares about it. But it’s intellectually dishonest to say it’s actually painful. That I fundamentally causes any sort of damage to me.
The dish by the sink is mostly a metaphor on par with not putting the toilet seat down, leaving shoes or dirty socks in an unwanted place on the floor, etc.
The glass by sink — the literal, actual real-life glass is irrelevant.
How a wife might FEEL when after honest and well-meaning requests to just put the glass in the sink is met with a big middle finger in the form of continuing to do something she reasonably asked you not
Matt, I think maybe you’re trying to rationalise away your feelings? You’ve talked about her feelings but what about yours? It’s not just a glass – how did you FEEL about it? If you didn’t like being effectively forced to do what she wanted, there’s legitimacy in that. Only you can work out whether you have ‘control issues’ (reacting unreasonably to simple requests) or whether your feelings stemmed from a bigger control battle in your relationship?
No idea! Maybe. I’m not a doctor. I just believe I’m right about all the parts I said. I don’t pretend to know other things.
I think there’s little doubt that I have issues! I think there’s little doubt that everyone does.
Matt wrote:
“The dish by the sink is mostly a metaphor on par with not putting the toilet seat down, leaving shoes or dirty socks in an unwanted place on the floor, etc.”
Oh Matt, he was gonna wear those socks again ?
Oops…. Hit reply too soon like a dipshit….
Anytime you verbally or non-verbally tell your spouse that things that matter to them or upset them SHOULDN’T matter or SHOULDN’T upset her because that’s not the way you experience it, so she must be wrong or broken or stupid or crazy or something else bad in order to disagree with you….
When you tell her that what she thinks and feels doesn’t matter, your marriage is on borrowed time.
It’s not about equally valid opinions.
It’s about one person being hurt, and the other saying “F you, I don’t give a shit about the things you care about.”
THAT ends marriages. Several thousands of times every day.
And I think it’s sad, because it’s essentially a big misunderstanding and kids shouldn’t have to cry and miss one of their parents every day forever on account of misunderstandings.
Good point Matt! I don’t understand why she had a HUGE fit aboue a simple glass, really? She must be crazy! As a wife myself, do I get annoyed if my husband misses the dirty basket when he’s 2 feet from it? Sure. But is it worth the fight? No, cause I’ll have to wash what’s in that basket, and everything around it. Does my husband get annoyed when I leave clothes on the bathroom floor? Yes, but it doesn’t mean I get angry, I just take care of it. It’s life, and responsibilites, I don’t have a dishwasher so any dish on the sink when I do dishes is getting washed. If my husband has a glass of water on the dining room table, it’s because he’s going to use it again, when I do dishes I ask if he’s still using it, before just taking it away, he’s saving me time to clean his glass cause he’s going to reuse it later.
It is not about all the issues she does not like. It is only about some issues more important for her for some reason. If she keeps talking about it, it is time for her husband to begin to pay attention. The price is saved marriage. And seeing how her husband is nice to her she will treat him better than ever.
“When you tell her that what she thinks and feels doesn’t matter, your marriage is on borrowed time. ” Absolutely!
I have told him straight that the socks, the towel, the dirty plate on the ‘just’ cleaned table etc etc all make me feel disrespected. When *he* cleans the floor , it just gotta damn well stay clean… coz doncha know he cleaned it, like, last week! But when I clean something – 2 seconds and there’s something on it -and I shouldn’t even say anything.
I’ve told him I cannot live my life like this – he doesn’t seem to care. Borrowed time – definitely.
Totally this! My husband cleaned the floors yesterday and then spent the entire day going on about keeping the floor clean, while simultaneously trashing all the things I’d cleaned and tidied without a thought.
Men do get this, because when they’ve worked hard to do something themselves they want that work ro be acknowledged and respected, but don’t extend that some acknowledgement and respect to the things they haven’t done themselves.
In my marriage and others I know, the women are in charge of all of this by default. If their partners look after the kids for example, they’re not doing all the other stuff their partners would be doing if they were home and in charge of the kids. That’s an awful lot of weight to carry, and their partners will never get it because they don’t experience it, and so they feel undervalued. This is not a rare problem.
Im going to say this about the whole ‘mental load’ angle: it is a load allright. Do women EVER understand that men shoulder a mental load as well? Usually one that involves providing for his spouse and family? Which results in her having the goddamned PRIVELEGE of shouldering a mental load devoid of those responsibilities? No doubt this comment will be considered toxic ,et al, met with disdain, snark, all the rest. Doesnt matter. Its reality.
Seriously? And for all the women who are carrying that load at their careers AND carrying that load at home as well?
Reality for some. A majority of women with children also work outside the home. Even in homes where both parents work, and men THINK they do an equal share, research shows they don’t. So many crybaby men in this thread, trying to justify their slacking at home.
If she made such a big deal about glasses going in the dishwasher then I strongly suspect she used emotional blackmail to get her way on an awful lot of other things. A lot of relationship problems stem from control battles.
Seriously, how are people not understanding that it isn’t JUST about the glass not being put in the dishwasher?? She isn’t being some crazy fruit-loop over a single glass. She is upset because he continuously refused to do a simple task that she asked, and it gets tiring constantly having to tell someone to do something and have them constantly ignore it.
It’s like my ex boyfriend…he rarely did the chores, and when he did he would only half-ass it because he didn’t see it as “important” or he was too “tired” after work. Nevermind the fact that we both worked full-time, he was always too “tired” to turn the dishwasher on when it was full, the washing machine could be turned on “tomorrow”, the vacuuming was never done because “the floor doesn’t look that bad”, and he’d leave a mess of dishes next to his computer because “it doesn’t matter to me, so why should it matter so much to you??” It got to the point where I was sick of feeling like a nagging banshee for constantly having to ask him to clean up after himself. I felt more like his mother than his girlfriend. In the end, we broke up because I snapped when I saw he had emptied an entire load of dirty clothes ONTO THE FLOOR (to empty the basket to put more clothes in) instead of simply putting them in the washing machine and turning it on. To this day, he thinks I left him because I went “batshit crazy for no reason”. No amount of banging my head on the walls will ever make him see my point of view. But that just makes me realize that he didn’t see my opinion as important, he didn’t respect me, nor was he interested in our mutual home being a clean one.
>This is control & manipulation by women: “If you care about how I feel then you must do what I want”.
Except, she never said that. She never even told him the cup by the sink bothered her, which is the opposite extreme of what you’re saying. She should have told him it bothered her, and given him a chance to decide if he wanted to change that; there’s no “you MUST do it”. But – probably out of fear of seeming controlling, manipulative, or naggy – she said nothing and let it fester.
>a good relationship should respect differences
But if those differences bother one partner too much, it’s not going to be a good relationship. It’s best to end it and find someone with differences that you can stand to be around every day, or live alone.
Because women hold the cards in a relationship. Far easier for her to trade in for a new model than for you to do the same.
This isn’t remotely true at all
Matt, I’ve read a lot of your articles and I think it is really brave of you to put your feelings and insights out on the public arena. You’ve heard it before but your articles describe my feelings exactly (as a woman) but I’ve heard my husband express the “man” side you express too. I love all the superior comments from people who have it all “figured out”. The truth is marriage is a process, two people either grow together or they don’t. We change as we grow, when we have kids, as we get older, get more advanced in our careers, have more responsibilities. What used to only annoy me in the beginning or not bother me at all, becomes a life and death struggle when the individuals have grown apart with all those stresses layered on top. I am speaking as someone who has been married nearly 20 years now and (together four years before that) and we are talking about separating (or rather I am). it is heartbreaking and in our case, love is not the issue. but for me, not feeling cared for, feeling alone, and undervalued have become too painful for me to live with. It is precisely what you are talking about. I know some men argue with this – my husband would say he also wrestles with these feelings – and I believe him – the problem is that I am out of empathy right now. it becomes circular after a while, and finding the beginning of the cycle is hard to figure out.
I am not low maintenance. I have high expectations from people. Most intelligent women do. My husband is not used to that. he grew up in a “traditional” home of white upper middle class America with a stay at home mom. I did not. My family was broken and I am not white. this isn’t about race, but more about privilege – but that is another issue entirely. I have advanced degrees (a master’s and a doctorate) – my husband is a successful engineer (with a BS) and out-earns me. I fought for my opportunities, my husband did not but that isn’t to say that he didn’t rightfully earn them. He was just more fortunate than I.
what may be good enough for another woman may not be good enough for me. But I also have high expectations for myself. I give to my husband and children and no woman wants to feel like her actions aren’t reciprocated, much less valued or cherished. If i’m sick, please take care of me when I’m sick – and don’t make me ask you to take care of me – because you don’t have to ask me. If I manage the bills, please help me with a budget when I ask for help (or actually why do i have to ask? don’t you spend money too? doesn’t how much we save or spend affect you too?), or file the papers like you agreed to do but then didn’t and now there are piles of paper everywhere that make me want to cry, which i ignore till that one day when i can’t find something stupid and i completely lose my shit over something “trivial”.
Don’t complain about me to another woman and secretly text her and then expect me to dismiss it like it means nothing because she was just a friend. to be fair you expressed remorse but i can’t let it go because of other issues that haven’t been resolved so now you are tired of me feeling hurt about this betrayal and don’t care how i feel about it anymore or rather you can’t sit with the shame of it anymore because it is too painful for you. I don’t know where that leaves me then. I suppose it goes into the “unsolved” file of marriage crimes.
if i take the time to plan your birthday, do the same for me. I gave you beautiful children while working a very stressful job – i’m talking about overnight shifts and long days of 12-15 hours, and I run our home and our lives, so maybe you could act like those things matter – it really hasn’t been equal over the course of our marriage though I know you like to pretend it has (though at times you’ve admitted it hasn’t been). Your mother cooked you dinner many nights when I wasn’t home, and bathed our kids so they were ready for you at the end of your day. I came home and made my own dinner or cooked for you when I was home – after work, while taking care of kids, etc.
I know you feel ashamed when I then lose my temper and scream at you about these things. Then you scream back at me and say equally terrible things. and sometimes you feel bad you did them and you try to make it up in other ways – you have tried in the recent years with taking on more responsibility but I have to remind you, ask you, make a list for you, or then you screw those up too or treat them like it’s a chore and I’m just a demanding bitch. I don’t have the patience I used to with your laid back attitude. These things have become urgent to me now, they have taken on meaning for me, but not for you. just like that glass by the sink. at one time maybe it was a joke. then it stopped being funny when the glass became the bills, or the vacations that needed planning, or date nights that never happened because I didn’t plan them and you don’t seem to want to spend time with me, or special occasions that went by unmarked or dismissed or sheepishly acknowledged with an under-whelming gesture. that will murder a marriage, no matter how demanding you believe your wife to be. “when is it enough?” you ask. and that’s the problem. I don’t ask that question. I’ve never asked for a limit to what I would do for you. I had to start putting limits when i realized that you had limits to what you would do for me. birthdays for either of us now are more stressful or happy. another casualty of neglect and resentment.
these are the worst of the bunch and there are other hurts. why is it we only remember the worst? if i read about this guy and it was another woman, i’d tell her to run to a lawyer. but there were kindnesses and generosity and love. there was closeness and shared laughter and great sex. i want to remember the good things too. I wish the good could outweigh the bad – i think it does really which is why we’ve lasted this long – but when the bad introduces doubt and fear – there is no balancing factor for that on the side of good. everything becomes suspect – you become cynical. you question motives. does he mean it or is it something he checking off to get off the shit list? and if he means it, why does he screw up again, and again, and again, later? if you know i am a little paranoid coming home late at night into the train station, why do I have to ask you to meet me there after 20 years? why not just show up? do you not care? nothing will happen you say. you’re probably right. but what if it does? i’m not a big guy walking to my car in a deserted lot at night.
you say you love me and you don’t want a divorce but you want me to take the lead in determining the fate of our relationship. i am no timid female, i say terrible things, i’m furious that you duped me into believing you cared more about me than you did. i’ve let you know exactly what i think of you for your behavior and that now I don’t want to make it easy for you. You had an active role in losing me so I think you should take an active role in getting me back. what does that mean? i don’t know. figure it out. and if you don’t then I have to accept that we don’t belong together, because I can’t live with doubt or with a man who won’t lead. I’m tired now and I need to be able to put my head on someone else’s shoulder for a change.
why do men who say they love their wives not fight for them? they know you want them to fight for them but some men can’t. and as a woman, is that enough? the woman finds the marriage counselor and the guy dutifully shows up – is that enough – is he fighting for the marriage then? or should there be more? is it like the movie “he’s just not that into you” – if a guy acts like he doesn’t care, he probably doesn’t. or does that not apply to husbands after 20 years?
if you fight for the relationship and they don’t, then what?
Beautifully said, Ana. This is exactly where I am at with my relationship as well, and I am waiting for him to make the decision on whether we stay together or not. I wish I knew. I tried to make conversation last night – something that wasn’t based on our bills, our kids, or any other stressor in our lives, and there was nothing. That alone gives me a lot of information to go over.
I went away this weekend for a little respite and was told that they “kept the house clean.” As one-quarter of the people who live there, I guess I should say thank you?
The magic seems to be gone out of our 20 years together, 18 years married relationship. I just don’t know how to take the next step without causing the next world war. We tried counseling – he just showed up. As soon as the therapist tried to engage him, he got mad and decided he won’t go back. And when she suggested that he go to therapy, he hit the roof. I don’t see much of a future with him, and am waiting for the universe to send me a solution. I don’t pray to anyone in particular; just to anyone who is listening.
you are very kind. thank you. i suppose i’m not waiting for my husband to make a decision because i know i have to be part of it too but he needs to say the words. to be fair, he’s said plenty of times he doesn’t want a divorce in the past and he participates in the counseling and has gone on his own at times. but since i’ve seriously pursued separation now (retaining a lawyer and starting the process for the agreement) he hasn’t said it again. I’ve left it an open decision about whether it is a temporary separation or one that will lead to divorce. That is the part we haven’t figured out.
He has said he loves me (over text lol) but then the words and behavior don’t match. he doesn’t attempt to talk about things – but I don’t behave like I’m receptive either. I’m so angry. he is passive-aggressive and avoids things so i get more mad and that just makes him more reticent. then at some point he will get mad and yell too. it’s really quite stupid. but i can’t keep feeling like i have to force action out of him. he has to lead too, even if it is scary for him.
it’s hard to have normal conversation with so much weighing on you both. it’s lonely too. i figure it’s lonely in the marriage and it will be lonely out of it but the tension is very draining too.
ana, welcome to the “club”….our situations sound very similar. I feel your pain. I know my husband feels shame–so I try very hard not to be shaming when I ask him for something, but any small request he seems to hear as “see–you’re failing as a husband because I had to ask”. it feels like my options are to STFU, stuff my feelings and take care of everything or leave.
Oh by the way OF COURSE they’ll never pull the trigger and end the relationship! Who would? *Look at how much they have to lose!* And all they have to do to keep you is to stay quiet, passive and not hit you. Well someone hand these good men a trophy.
LOL.
‘I went away this weekend for a little respite and was told that they “kept the house clean.” As one-quarter of the people who live there, I guess I should say thank you?’
Ugh, that’s what my ex was like! He would do the bare-minimum amount of chores, then expect gratitude for it. It made me so angry. I shouldn’t have to praise him every time he turns the dishwasher on! I shouldn’t have to thank him for putting a dirty towel in the laundry basket! It got to the point where he refused to do chores because I wasn’t “thankful enough”. It made me realize he doesn’t care about keeping our mutual shared-space clean, or making my work-load lighter. He didn’t do these things because he loved me and respected our home. He only did chores because he expected some sort of “gift” at the end of it. He probably thought I was the biggest bitch the time he vacuumed the house and said (in all seriousness) that I should thank him with sex – and I laughed in his face.
Even after I said that he never thanked ME for doing the chores EVERY DAY, he shrugged and said “but you’re expected to do them. That’s your job.” That was the final straw.
Ana, you remind me so much of myself in your comment. I’ve read it 3 times since yesterday. You, like so many women, are one of the casualties of modern marriage: women were told they could have an equal partner because our feminist mothers fought for equal rights, and men promised to step up, and they never did. No one taught them how to be adults, let alone men. We’re expected to either “raise” our husbands by nagging them like children (intimacy killing), or silently and invisibly manage until we’re worn down to a nub.
From my experience, you won’t find peace, and you won’t feel whole again until you leave. Leave. That man does not deserve you. He will never step up. You’ll never feel certain you can rely on him, or that he can protect you. Leave. Don’t waste any more time with men who don’t get it. I left my husband 5 months ago, and BEING alone is a thousand times better than FEELING alone IN a marriage. He tried! But merely trying (as though my needs were a list of chores), like all those good intentions, like all the underwhelming gestures that we’re EXPECTED to be grateful for and put in the labor of hiding our disappointment and expressing undending gratitude!! Our husbands are “nice” men who are trying… that should be enough right?
It isn’t.
It sucked. I love(d) my husband. There was a lot of guilt and grief when I left. But I sleep so well at night now, that I’m certain I’ve made the best decision. The last time I went home to pack up the last of my belongings as we sold the house, I walked into: a sink filled with milky, dirty water and dishes, dishes on the counter with food stuck to them (dishes he knew I was taking with me, by the way), the cat litter was disgusting and made me feel so bad for our cats, there was a bucket with cigarette butts in the backyard, but still piles and piles of cigarette buts all over the patio stairs and front porch. He’d went away on a trip and left an over-filled washing machine full of wet towels to mildew. Well, I’m not interested in that. I’m looking forward to taking care of my new place. Maybe he’ll find another woman to be his mother.
Leave.
Phew, Julez. You have done it. Props times a thousand. I am terrified of this step. TERRIFIED. I want the universe to fix this problem for me. But this is my future. I know it. I went away this weekend and was reminded that I LIKE me. I like who I am as an individual, and I want to get back to that person.
We all were so hoodwinked by being sold on modern marriage and that we could have it all. Marriage as “Happily Ever After” complete with a knight in shining armor who would make us laugh and love us for who we are entirely, a career that fulfilled our ambitions, a perfect, cherubic family that satisfied our biological cravings, and enough money, energy and wherewithal left to decorate our homes with the seasons, create delicious masterpieces every night in the kitchen, be sex goddesses in the bedroom, and still have enough time to get away with our girlfriends regularly.
It’s all such a load of bullshit. It’s a farce. My kids eat rice and beans or cereal (that they make themselves), my house is a mess more often than not, my husband can’t find a “perfect” job so he settles for two part-time jobs that he hates, and we are all fairly miserable. Sex? Bwahhhhhh ahhh haaaaaaaaaaaaa – not for MONTHS.
Good on you, girl. I’m right behind you, if I can find my big girl pants. Keep inspiring us, PLEASE!!!!
I promise you with all my heart you won’t regret it. We don’t take these decisions lightly. We try. WE TRY TO MAKE THINGS WORK. We’re women, and civilizations depend on us doing the invisible (unpaid) labor of maintaining social order, raising children, nursing elders, and managing LIFE so that Mr. Compartmentalization can focus on his needs.
Your biggest obstacle is yourself. You will feel guilty and question your motives – but it sounds to me like you are where I was a year ago. If the thought of leaving elicits a vision of hope and sense of self-worth you’ve lost (becuase some guy thought he was entitled to you and everything you stand for, FOREVER) then for christ sakes, go now. You are being taken for granted.
It was easier for me because we didn’t have children – but it can be done. Elicit the help of your girlfriends and woman relatives. Surround yourself with the nourishing, validating no-bullshit empathy of other women.
I saw two women leave their unhappy marriages, and they inspired me to do the same. If I could pay it forward and lead other strong, generous, capable women into happiness and newfound hope, I’ll have done my job. You got this.
And if I had a dollar for every person who has said (without knowing that I left my husband) “How are you doing?? You look so happy!” I’d have a down payment on a second house. <3 <3
Julez, thank you. your words help so much. i agree with you about peace. i’ve told others it would be so much easier if my husband were a jerk who never did anything. he isn’t. he helps around the house and with the kids. the kids are great – i’m a strong disciplinarian and i treat them like they are little people, which they are – and they are capable of understanding empathy and accountability. when i write about it here it helps me process the situation and the feedback helps, it really does.
last night was another defining moment. i had been working from home – and i had sent a few emails to H about our separation agreement – which I am working on but he isn’t thinking about – at all. he really doesn’t want to deal with it and I don’t blame him, neither do I. The status quo is not tolerable though so I am doing it. I sent him some emails and had some questions about living arrangements etc. and also things like, is this a separation headed for divorce or are we going to try and work on the marriage? are we going to see other people? sleep with other people? doing this makes you think about really uncomfortable things.
i got a text from him later when i asked if he was eating tacos for dinner (we had at home) and he asked me if i wanted to go out to dinner. So i am thinking he’s read my notes and wants to discuss and maybe this will be the light going on and this conversation may be different from others.
it wasn’t. we go to dinner and he is into small talk – which i am not and never will be. i’m not a small talk person – maybe with strangers or acquaintances and even then not so much. but small talk now is insane – for him it’s classic avoidance. So I bring up the elephant in the room and of course he has not read my emails. Why did you want to have dinner then? I ask. He says, I thought it would be nice.
F that. So we start talking and i can’t get a real response on anything. no opinions, no convictions. he asks how do we date without sleeping with other people! does this mean he wants to sleep with other people? no, he says, he’s just saying. WTF does that mean.
He wants to stay married. But he is looking at apartments. But he doesn’t know why or what we should do. he doesn’t understand any of this. doesn’t understand why we are talking about divorce. doesn’t even know the difference between separation and divorce, though i explained the process to him before. he hasn’t looked into it at all. I’ve even sent him links explaining it to him.
Then the same arguments start – he says I abandoned him and shut down at one point in our lives and I say I know and try to explain my side. And that leads to fury on his part. and I keep saying look, we need to discuss both sides of this. and it becomes “you just want to blame me for everything”. We go home and he is just like a wall, everything I say just bounces off this impenetrable belief that he has to be “wrong” and “the bad guy” and that’s my sole objective when we talk.
i ask him why he is still in the marriage if he believes that. He is waiting for me to change he says. i am flabbergasted but not really surprised.
we leave it that this isn’t going to work and he’s all kinds of pissed off – and now we are home – i say to him with finality that this is a separation leading to divorce. and he says that’s what I (meaning me) want. He just wants me to be the one to make the choice so he can blame me for it. I say that to him, and he starts all mad again. and I go upstairs and leave him in the guest room downstairs (where he has been for over a month – my choice). but in my mind i’m thinking, it’s over, it’s really over now. and for those moments i am devastated but then i start to feel like a weight has been lifted. it wasn’t the outcome i was hoping for but i know where i stand now and i can make a decision about my life.
later i am in the kitchen tidying up – kids are watching tv – and he comes in after hibernating downstairs – processing i suppose – maybe 20 minutes or so. and he says i’m sorry i got mad. I don’t know what i want to do. i want to be married to you. maybe he said he loved me, i don’t remember. he hugs me. I am bewildered. now I am back to where I started.
but then i’m not – this isn’t fair to me – his lack of conviction or decision making – this is our lives, our marriage, our family. if I have to decide so be it.
i love him. he loves me. it isn’t enough.
he texted me this morning. I am in my office – of course crying. he is so depressed about this. i am too, i say. he wants me to be happy. i’ve heard this before. it’s not an adequate response, but maybe all he can muster. i tell him he doesn’t love me, not really. he wants his family, but i don’t think he wants me. (last night he wasn’t coherent about this, which translates as lack of conviction to me – it may not be, he’s bumbling around like a wounded animal right now I guess, but I can’t wait for him to figure it out).
I tell him he isn’t strong enough for us, so now i have to be. I love you, I say, but I can’t be married to you.
and now I am moving forward on the separation agreement on my own. i figure he will see it when it’s done – from my lawyer – and have to deal with it then. I won’t be asking him any more questions. i will do my best to be fair. it will need tweaking but it needs to get done. the lawyer will help me figure it out. that’s what i pay her for.
i can’t say that I won’t consider being with him in the future, but under these circumstances, we don’t have a future.
i hope i am doing the right thing.
You are definitely doing the right thing.
And here’s the beautiful thing: he doesn’t have to “get” it. He doesn’t have to understand. He MIGHT later, once you’re gone… or maybe he’ll get into a relationship right away so he doesn’t have to accept responsibility.
And he won’t change because he’s waiting for you to change. And he’s not assertive enough to fight for your respect. He isn’t a bad person. It might not even be his “fault” – but you know what?? It doesn’t matter. Him being a good person isn’t going to give you an orgasm, or make you feel valued, or cherished or protected. You’re right: love isn’t enough.
Don’t believe the: “You’re giving up on us” bullshit, either. What does that even mean? A miserable marriage is considered “successful” if you’re together, albeit brokenhearted? No. And don’t fall for “you’re giving up on marriage” because it’s wrong – WRONG – to make women stay in a social contract that emotionally destroys them. It’s wrong. Full stop.
Read Madame Bovary. Read Anna Karenina. Read Scarlet and Black. All feature married women who have an undying capacity for love and passion that is thwarted by social convention and cultural expectation. The unhappy wife isn’t a new problem – but guess what? Now we have social media, and we’ve (women) got each other.
You will be okay. You’re doing the right thing. You’re not wrong. You tried your best. This isn’t a failure. You are learning and growing. You’re in a chrysalis. You’ve got this.
thanks Julez – that is so inspiring! i haven’t read scarlet and black. i’m reading the Handmaid’s Tale right now – lol – scary enough.
i know it is BS that the separation is “my decision” – it is a choice I’m making true but he’s not deciding either way really – i suppose wanting to stay married is not really a decision is it? i want to stay married too, but not under these circumstances. so I guess I’m choosing separation and maybe divorce eventually.
is anyone on this thread local to the DC area?
precisely meridda. that’s the worst – we’ve never figured that out – how i can ask without him feeling like i’m criticizing or getting to the point where i don’t HAVE to ask. sometimes he seems to take it in stride and others he is mad. i think it is overwhelming for him when i start to say this, and this and this, etc. but that is the reality, there’s LOTS to do and I can’t baby him though I try to make it even between us. I mean we are in our mid 40s, when does it become a habit to just do this stuff? and once you’ve figured out that you need to take out the trash without being asked, how about those papers or the budget or vacation or planning summer camp? these are constants in our lives, how about not waiting to be asked?
i wish we could just push a button that would “reset” our marriage – clear out all the old and just start again – i think that is why I initially decided this separation would be a good thing – a little time and space – and making it official this time (because I’ve talked about it before) is for me to feel like I am making a decision – there has to be a goal – forward movement. Either we are going to work out or not but there has to be a goal. but his passiveness is making me so mad I am lashing out.
I don’t know about you and Meridda, but I don’t like walking over trash that missed the basket, or laundry on the floor, or whatever it is. I also resent the fact that I have to tell him – and our two kids – that they, too, can bend over and pick that up!
It feels like he, and they, by extension, just don’t care about the co-habitating any more. And if they don’t, then why on earth should I care any more? I feel like I’ve expressed, over and over, what is important to me. I don’t want to nag. I don’t want to leave lists. Please be respectful and remember what is important to me, just like I remember what is important to you. That, to me, is what makes a partnership last. Be mindful of what is important not only to you, but to me, too….
I’m with you–I’ve tried to start a campaign “no littering in the house” because yes, trash is left everywhere…fortunately, my daughter is quite responsible. part of the issue is that my husband seems perfectly happy with our situation (as long as I don’t ask for anything). I’m the one who is unhappy, so I guess I’m the one who needs to change–I’m just not sure what that means…
” I don’t want to nag. I don’t want to leave lists.”
I relate to your post so much, especially this line. With my ex, I got to the point where I WAS writing him lists. But even then, I was constantly stressing about whether he was completing the “list”. I’d leave for work in the morning and see him sitting at his computer playing video games, and I’d just KNOW that he had no intention of doing anything on the list that day. Or, if he did, he’d do it 20 minutes before I got home so it would be a half-assed rushed effort,
I even bought a whiteboard and stuck it to the fridge with a list of things that needed to be done, and every time he went to the fridge to get a beer….he’d ignore the list. I got so sick of coming home and realising we had no milk or vegetables or butter because he couldn’t be bothered going to the supermarket (that was only 5 minutes away!) but he somehow found the time to go to the bottle shop (which was right near the supermarket) to buy a full box of beer!
how old are your kids jennbb33? are they so old that these habits are fixed? or are they still young (grade school, middle school, even early high school?). of course I would not like living like that, no one would. with kids at least, if they are young enough, you can impose disciplinary action if they are not being responsible. if they are college age, then it may be time to let the sorry bunch live on their own without you!
They are 12 and 9…. The 12 year old is coming “on line” and getting conscious of her living space. I am hoping that the 9 year old listens to me and gets on board too.
ah, they are old enough to be influenced by you. Don’t give up on them – they can learn, you have to be persistent. For your sake and theirs – they have to learn empathy and that the world doesn’t revolve around them, just because we love them unconditionally doesn’t mean we can’t set boundaries for them. I talk to my kids this way – i tell them clearly that I expect them to do certain things just like i do things for them. I don’t pay them to do chores. They are part of the family so they are expected to work. it is about love and respect for one another. I make it clear that I love them but i’m not taking their bullshit. (mine are 14 girl and almost 12 boy). the both sweep the kitchen, washes dishes, unloads dishwasher, does laundry and whatever else needs to be done (as long as schoolwork is finished first).
keep trying! you will win with them at least in the end.
that really doesn’t seem fair to you does it? i suppose when it comes to “lists” that I feel like if I have to leave a list then what I list should get done without 18 reminders. it’s bad enough to have to take the time to write the list but what good is delegating if you have to keep micro-managing? can you imagine if your boss had to do that with you? you’d be out!
a friend of mine told me we all have our own views of what’s tolerable to us. she’s willing to put up with certain things that i’m not and vice versa. i’ve tried setting the boundaries of this is yours to do, this is mine to do, but again, this is deemed as “unfair” – i’ve had my husband argue with me (in the past but no more) why it was his responsibility to take out the garbage. one time i left the trash bag (full of trash) by his side of the bed. i think his POV was if it needs doing why is it one person’s job vs another – which is something I’ve seen on this thread too – the problem with that is that only works if both people are on that page. So if my husband picks up the bills and cooking the meals (without being asked) on a regular basis as many times as I do, then I will gladly take out the garbage. But I am not going to have “my responsibilities” and his too. and if it isn’t clearly delegated to him, it will default to me. because he just won’t think to do it. and i always felt it was a little disrespectful in his parents home that his mother had to cook, then serve, then clean the kitchen and then walk the trash out to the garage herself every night while her husband lounged in front of the tv. she was a stay at home mom, and cleaned and cooked, etc. i get it, but that part made me feel like it was un-gentleman man like. why couldn’t he take the heavy, smelly trash out himself? or offer to do it for her? just to be nice? it’s her fault too because she would at times insist on doing it herself even when i told my husband he should do it for her. just out of respect for her as his mother. it led to irritation for me years later when she would jump up everytime i asked my husband to do something – like he shouldn’t be doing anything. stupid woman. it’s partly her fault that her son didn’t feel anything should be “his job” but showed no inclination to just take it upon himself to do something either.
“A little” disrespectful… I try to say to people, if I’m working, you should be, too…. I mean, EMPATHY, Y’all!!!! Many hands make light the work! Show a little respect! The only thing we can do is train our sons to help when they see their wives – or partners – still working when they are sitting on their asses.
yes and yes 🙂
Enjoyable blog
This is super-heloful. But for me, I am the wife who works and leaves dishes in the sink, running out the door. Hubby is retired, and hates when I do this. I think, “You’re retired. All you do is golf and watch television. You know how stretched I am. Why can’t you
help?”. But, you have made me see he feels disrespected. This is my second marriage. Guess I still have a lot to learn!
Thank you so much for this article. This is exactly what I am going through right now. I have been with my boyfriend Matt for 6 years and we are definitely going through a rough patch so I decided to send him this article. This is the response I got: “I’m so sorry for hurting you. Not just this time. But for all the other bullshit I’ve put you through. You’re an amazing person. And you deserve to be loved and treated with respect. Please know that. I’ll leave you alone now, but I just had to say something.”
I have never respond to anything online but really wanted to say thank you. You said all of the things I have wanted to say to my boyfriend but didn’t know how to phrase it.
You certainly hit the nail right on the head.
If only you knew my husband and could share this and a few other things. Unfortunately you don’t, he’ll never equate this either . Bitter til the bitter end . Thank you for posting this. Much appreciated. B.C.
sorry about your situation, BC…I’m in the same boat…
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A really thought provoking piece I believe every husband who loves his wife should read…
All men: Here’s the marriage manual. You’ll need it.
Reblogged this on Nderi Sarah and commented:
All men: Here’s the marriage manual…
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I saw this on HuffPo, and what I can’t figure out is why you spent so much space claiming it didn’t matter to you, when it mattered to you so overwhelmingly that you wouldn’t even consider changing. That’s the opposite of not caring about it.
Please tell me what part of it you find confusing. This sounds like a semantics debate. Those can happen a lot around here.
Example: I’ve been single for four years. Same kitchen. Same sink. Same drinking glasses.
And I leave a tall drinking glass on the counter in the back corner of the sink by my coffee maker almost every day.
I pop it into the dishwasher maybe once a week, but inevitably a new glass takes it’s place there.
I like having a glass to grab quickly to swallow a pill or vitamin.
What I don’t care about is the glass being there in a “My kitchen looks cluttered and messy” way.
The glass being there does not bother me.
It’s there, and I don’t care.
If my 8-year-old put a peanut buttery finger print on my window or TV, I would care and want it cleaned. If he spilled pasta sauce or chocolate milk on the floor I would care and want it cleaned.
I clean my toilets and mirrors. I clean my car.
But I DON’T always clean the drinking glass that I put back there by the sink. It’s because when it sits there, it doesn’t bother me the way those other messy things bother me.
I’m sorry if you felt I communicated that poorly.
You probably get this already, but I think a significant thing in relationships that men frequently suck at is: Caring about something on behalf of his partner. I don’t think it’s important to change your beliefs and feelings and brainwash yourself into considering a drinking glass by the sink a cleaning violation.
HOWEVER, I think a significant key to quality relationships is mindfully “caring about” and “tending to” tasks or whatever simply because the person you love DOES care about it.
I need to learn that a glass sitting by the sink may feel to her the way a peanut-butter smear on my TV or windows would feel to me.
Simple empathy. Maybe you’re awesome at it and take it for granted. For guys like me, this is next-level shit.
These subtle changes in thought and behavior can change the entire trajectory of our lives by adjusting thoughtless, relationship-damaging behaviors.
I don’t care about that glass.
But if I’m ever with someone who does, it won’t be sitting there. Because she has to matter more than my personal opinions.
And that has to be true for every guy who would prefer to not get divorced like me.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot – and reading the comments about whether the glass was important vs. the importance of a partner’s feelings – IMHO yes caring about how your spouse feels about things is important, even if it doesn’t matter to you. But really, at its core, this is about feeling valued. Spouse A hates the glass, and Spouse B doesn’t care about it. BUT, Spouse A may not feel so bad about washing the glass for Spouse B if she felt valued by her spouse in other areas (not blaming you Matt, just an example). If the wife/spouse A feels and knows in her heart her husband/spouse B actively does things for her that she knows are her “quirks” but he cares about her enough to do them and value the fact that she washes his dirty glass or does other things for him, then she wouldn’t feel the glass was such a big deal. The glass becomes symbol for all the other areas where she doesn’t feel valued or appreciated – it is no longer just a glass by the sink. One person here remarked that she had a more equitable relationship where she and her husband share responsibilities more equally rather than thinking “this is my job and this is yours” – its great if that works for you but i think most of us (women) feel that the buck stops with us too often. So we have to insist on division of labor and too often have to enforce it with nagging and complaining. I agree that it does come down to empathy or lack of empathy.
Right. People read just one of my posts, and then jump to insane conclusions about my ex-wife based on her reaction.
They think she’s overreacting to the glass. Overreacting to the pair of jeans thrown on the bedroom chair. Overreacting to me wanting to watch a golf tournament instead of do what she wants to do. Overreacting to me playing poker or watching my own thing while she’s home on the couch, or in a different room watching her thing. Overreacting to whatever.
It’s exactly what you said, Ana. Assuming I was the model husband in EVERY other possible scenario, or even just really good, there’s no way in hell that glass would have bothered her.
Each of these little moments is a symptom of a larger problem. And unfortunately, I write in such a way that it doesn’t always get tied up neatly.
My brain works better when I can focus on one subject or incident at a time.
But in the end, these little moments cause pain because they’re part of a build-up of pain-inducing things. NOT because in isolation, or as a one-time incident, they are particularly painful or meaningful or noteworthy at all.
It’s not semantics — it’s the actual heart of the matter.
You cared about your right to leave dirty dishes by the sink so absolutely that you were determined not to change, that you were determined not to even consider changing.
The honest way to deal with that would have been to admit that this is something you really, really cared about, just as your wife really cared about dirty dishes going in the dishwasher.
That way the two of you could have an honest discussion about finding some way of dealing with dishes that worked for both of you.
The “but it’s UNIMPORTANT” lie is a tactic for doing an end-run around that process and instead declare yourself the winner
But it’s obviously a lie, since it was so important to you that changing wasn’t even an option.
I think maybe you just want to internet-fight.
I just told you the most-honest answer I could, and another human being SIMULTANEOUSLY explained it correctly using different words.
If you would prefer to dismiss it in order to have your own story about my private life, and personal experiences, and personal intentions within those experiences, then there’s not much I can do to stop you.
I tell these stories to help OTHER guys understand WHY their wives or girlfriends might be upset over things the guys might consider petty or unimportant. Guys frequently report that their wives or girlfriends “blow things out of proportion” or “overreact.”
This is my attempt to explain why I believe that happens. And I think the more of them drawing the same conclusions as I have will reduce the frequency of divorce, and God-willing lead to fewer children growing up without both of their parents at home.
If you think I have some other bizarrely sinister agenda, I’m going to have to let you just believe it. I’m sorry you didn’t agree with my honest explanation for what happened in my marriage, or what my true intentions were when I typed words that you read.
Bizarrely sinister agenda? Really? That’s just a repeat of the same tactic. “If I scream ‘UNIMPORTANT/BIZARRELY SINISTER AGENDA’ I get to declare that I win.” When, in fact, there is no reason to re-interpret what is happening into a fight you need to win in the first place.
I just think you and your audience would be better served by not giving credence to the lie that something is unimportant to you when it’s so important that you don’t want to change it. Admit that if you don’t want to change something, then it does matter to you, and have an honest conversation about it. You don’t need pages of vague feelings babble trying to justify that it’s important to your spouse; all you need to do is admit that it obviously is important to you and talk about it honestly with your partner.
Baffling. I can only assume that you genuinely believe that everyone else’s brain works the same way yours does.
Helen, I think you’ve misunderstood. The mindset here isn’t “it’s important to me to not put my glass in the dishwasher, so I won’t change”, which is what “caring about it” would imply. The mindset Matt’s trying to describe is “it’s important to me that we only make a big deal out of big things, and this isn’t one, so I won’t change”. That’s not caring about the glass, that’s caring about the big picture – thinking that if we cave on this pointless and trivial thing, there’ll be another fifty to follow it.
(Of course, the key point here is that one’s partner ought to be pretty damn high up the list of what’s important to you, and this is a clear signal they’re not!)
Totally. This.
Damn, Matt, you’re way too fast for me 😀
Okay, you’ve done a good job of making my point for me.
That’s just another tactic for refusing to work together for a solution and instead declaring that you win. All you have to do is declare something “unimportant” and you get to go on doing whatever it is.
But who decides? If one person is deciding unilaterally what matters enough for the couple to work on, that’s already in insta-divorce territory, because there is no partnership there and no intention to have one.
Helen, you’re now doing a good job of making MATT’s point for HIM. You’ve come around to making EXACTLY the point this article is trying to make. Which is great, but you still seem to think you’re disagreeing?
Huh. If the point was that neither partner gets to veto problem-solving on an issue if you want the marriage to last, that’s great, but it didn’t come through very clearly.
What I got out of it was, “Guys, watch out, neither person gets to decide unilaterally what is and isn’t an issue in the marriage, because the womenfolk, they are strange beasts that care about things unimportant to us manly men,” and then a whole lot of vague feelings babble.
My point was that it would be a lot more clear if the message were, “Guys, watch out, neither person gets to decide unilaterally what is and isn’t an issue in the marriage. If you find yourself coming up with excuses why you shouldn’t have to change something (such as by declaring it unimportant), then it’s time to admit it’s a big deal to you and and start an honest conversation with your spouse about how you and she both feel about it so you can find a mutual solution.”
You’re a good writer, Helen. I would encourage you to explain things how you want to explain them.
I don’t have any problem or disagreement whatsoever with the explanation you just gave following the word “babble.”
I’m writing first-person stories to maybe try to help other people who can identify with my life experiences think about something in a new way.
The way I explained it is what feels most true and accurate and relevant for me.
I can tell you with the utmost confidence that if you write YOUR stories YOUR way, explaining things as they make sense for YOU, you will find a group of people who will relate to, benefit from, and learn and grow due to your ability to help them rethink something.
In the time you’ve spent trying to shit on my story, and convince me that I don’t actually mean what I say that I mean, you could have written your OWN excellent piece that would help people come to the conclusions you want them to come to.
And I hope someone as smart and as talented as you would invest time and energy in that, rather than whatever this was.
Good luck, Helen.
Helen isnt shitting Matt…and passive-aggression aint a good look either. Dismissing assholes on the internet is one thing…dismissing well-reasoned, but opposing views is, dare i say it? Toxic…
I will agree to not reusing the glass that I sat next to the sink if you agree to go to counseling to work on getting over worrying about such petty things as dirty dishes in or near the sink. Sir… you shed yourself of a problem. Life is short. There are people out there that will love you for who you are. These things are called “pet peeves” and are not worthy of divorce unless there are larger underlying problems. We are annoyed most with the people we spend the most time with. It is human nature. I appreciate that you understand the importance of that small gesture, but there are larger underlying problems here.
“These things are called “pet peeves” and are not worthy of divorce unless there are larger underlying problems.”
That’s the thing though….they aren’t pet peeves when they pile up and pile up. It’s not just the glass in the sink. It’s the toilet seat always being left up, the dirty clothes being left in a pile next to the washing machine, the spilled drink not being mopped up, etc. Eventually these small “pet peeves” add up into a massive, raging volcano.
And a lot of women (and many men) don’t leave their spouses because they DO feel like they shouldn’t be ending a relationship/marriage over something as small as a “pet peeve”. They don’t realise WHY the glass in the sink is upsetting them so much. But when you’re the only one cleaning up after two people (and you constantly have to remind your spouse to do simple tasks), it’s no longer JUST about a glass being left in the sink. It’s about the disrespect the spouse is giving them and their shared-household.
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I also unfortunately am currently living this exact situation, in a few days we will be officially separated after 12 years together, Ive picked the cup up and put it in the dishwasher time and time again. Has the wife ever considered that the husband also is moving out for the exact same reasons, except replacing the cup for friendship, romance and intimacy. Ask yourself how long will he continue cleaning up for her before he gives up because she hasn’t even started giving him the same respect? The point is that both parties are guilty of the same crime and both are craving the same respect, the only solution is for both of you to realise and understand this predicament and take the first step forward together because in any relationship 1 can not survive without the other. Unfortunately Its to little to late for us , I hope people will read this and realise that it takes 2 to tango! PEACE!
^^^THIS RIGHT HERE. Death by a thousand cuts. Or glasses. Of course more major issues come into play… but these small issues become very large, as you so realistically pointed out.
Mine wasn’t dishes.. it was his clothes, piled atop the dresser, that NEVER got put away… unless I did it. Then I got bitched at if he couldnt find a particular article of clothing!! And it was shoes, kicked off next to the side door and left in a growing pile that was unsightly (right next to the table where we ate) and also grew in diameter, causing me several trips and twisted ankles. Then when my daughters came along, they heard their father either ignore or ridicule my requests to move the shoes… and they began to do the same as Daddy. Despite my efforts. By the time I had had enough amd left him, I was not really respected by anyone in the house. I had allowed that to be the example they grew up with. I have worked very hard since then to teach my childten that what I say matters, and that I will no longer tolerate being treated like that.
Thank you for this! I didn’t think there was a man anywhere who truly understood this. I’m sorry to hear that your understanding of it came too late for your marriage.
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Your writings are insightful. I’m the woman in the described scenario, and I’ve been reading a lot of your blog because it resonates with my current relationship. Same old story.
I find it amusing reading some of the comments that still think it’s about the cup, but it’s also a little scary. I’m not sure that this is the kind of lesson that can be taught without a person experiencing the loss, or a threat of a loss, themselves.
I don’t know how my spouse would react to being shown the articles on this site. He’s sensitive enough that I think he’d see “shitty husbands” at the top and think that’s all I think of him, thus getting nowhere.
i think my ex read this article… and used it to quote those internal speeches word to word to my face -_-
What a beautiful explanation into the female/relationship psyche. I couldn’t have said it better myself, which you allude to and I’m not denying in the slightest that women can have issues conveying their thoughts in a highly emotive state. Your article is relevant to both sexes in a partnership. Thank you.
Why do men need to grasp the reasons women feel disrespected by their actions before changing? Why isn’t just asking enough?
How I wish I had an answer for you, Korrine. Best I can figure, we (all humans, but often men in this scenario) don’t “get it” until WE hurt just as bad as our partners did all those times we didn’t have enough humility and empathy to let someone else feel a certain way, and causing them hurt in the process.
It’s like we need the pain to finally relate.
That’s how I experienced it, and I think a bunch of others went through it that way too.
It’s not okay. I’m sorry.
This is dumb. First a women should communicate that a glass makes her feel that way. Seems to me has has deeper issues. No man is suppose to make a women happy and vice versa. You security is oneself not another person. Your in a marriage as a best friend, someone to support one another. Championship. Accept each other as they are your marriage would be fine.
That’s the point though. A marriage should be about companionship and supporting each other. So when a spouse says, “hey, can you stop putting your dirty glass in the sink and just put it in the dishwasher?” you shouldn’t keep putting the glass in the sink because you don’t know “why” they get so upset about a simple glass. There doesn’t need to be an in-depth conversatiopn about every small thing in the household, because that in itself can be frustrating ALWAYS having to explain how things make you feel because the other person in the relationship just “doesn’t get it”.
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This might be the best thing I’ve ever read. It explains perfectly what my husband and I are going thru that I could never adequately explain or get him to understand. Every word. Thank you. I feel validated for the first time in years. And years. And years.
This petty bullshit is why MGTOW is a thing.
It’s because I used to agree with you that my marriage ended.
And so long as we keep encouraging people to label these things as “petty,” we’ll keep cheerleading the kind of behavior (too often from men) that was never INTENDED to end marriages, but ACTUALLY does.
Of course a dish by the sink is “petty.” Of course it is.
This is supposed to be a lesson on empathy. The fundamental understanding that every human being who isn’t you experiences any given moment differently than you do.
And so long as we keep telling our wives and girlfriends that the stuff they care about is “petty” or “bullshit” or otherwise unimportant, women will continue to slowly grow sad, angry and resentful, and leave their marriages.
One dish is bullshit. Always will be.
A systemic problem of PERPETUALLY telling your wife or girlfriend that what she cares about doesn’t matter, and that the pain she says she feels isn’t worth our effort and energy to help her not feel, will continue to cause more divorce than ANYTHING.
Here’s a challenge, and I don’t know you so you never have to admit you tried it, or come back here and report the results…
Think about everything that matters to you, but doesn’t matter to other people (friends, parents, romantic partners, co-workers, whoever). Whatever it is in life that’s really important to you.
Then, the next time a woman “complains” or “nags” or “emotes” or “bitches” about something she’s saying MATTERS to her, but your gut instinct is like “God, here she goes again, caring about all this unimportant shit”…
Remember this conversation.
And then consider that, just as things in your life that you value don’t in any way resonate with other people you know, apply THAT to how your girlfriend/wife/whoever feels.
Consider that something you don’t think matters DOES matter to someone else.
Not giving a shit about that with strangers might make you a tiny bit of an asshole, but so be it.
Not giving a shit about that with the PERSON TO WHOM YOU PROMISED A LIFTIME OF LOVE AND LOYALTY is a fundamentally moral failure to keep your publically stated vows and promises.
You don’t have to care about Thing She’s Complaining About. You don’t. And if you’re just dating and you don’t want to meet her halfway, stay single. That’s a viable choice.
But if she’s your WIFE? The mother of your children? The other person who lives in your home and sleeps in your bed?
I’d ask you to strongly consider whether caring about something for no other reason than SHE CARES ABOUT IT might have merit and lasting positive effects on marriage.
We can do better, sir. Without selling out as men. But by being better versions of one.
So basically, do what she wants because she wants it and will leave you for a guy with a bigger dick and paycheck if you don’t. Got it.
You guys all use identical talking points. It’s like listening to political arguments from someone blindly parroting MSNBC or Fox News talking heads.
It’s really disappointing. I know you guys are capable of more-honest, more-critical thought.
With that sort of attitude, I’m surprised that you have found any woman willing to marry you. OTOH, some women are drawn to assholes.
If there is anything that matters enough to you to want your partner to at least honor it, then it behooves you to do the same for her.
MGTOW you need therapy – clearly you are worried about the size of your dick – and paycheck.
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I keep coming back to your post Matt. It’s very good! Right on the spot and I can completely relate to the situation (or in my case several situations over a long period of time). I take full accountability to why my marriage is a in a downward spiral and will most likely end in divorce. Many of my actions over time have been saying I don’t give a shit about my wife’s feelings. Even though I do care, I care a lot, I only do it on a selfish manner which also counts for shit. Specifically as my wife feels neglected and not listen to, which is a recurring theme and something I’m aware of – however usually I’m aware of this afterwards and not when it actually matters.
Even if I do take care of some of the dishes, the dirtiest ones and the ones that have highest priorities are left in the sink and keep getting dirtier and dirtier. The problem is that I just keep coming back to your post once I’ve been reminded that “I left the dishes on the sink yet again”. With everyday life taking over it’s easy to get distracted and as a man with a one-track mind I keep forgetting that the dirtiest dishes are still in the sink while the new less dirty ones is taken care of and I have a problem changing this. The dirtiest ones need to be super-duper cleaned (fucking metal brush style) in order for it not to come back and haunt you. I’ve cleaned them every so often but just for a bit and not completely. For a relationship to work I guess it’s not rocket science but priorities and good communication is key. That you prioritize each other’s dishes so you keep track and communicate on a regular basis if the dish has been cleaned properly or if there is still dirt left that might pop back on again – even after you thought you cleaned it. Not spending enough time on the most significant dishes of you other half will not make it clean even if you think it’s been cleaned. Then it doesn’t matter how clean you keep everything else.
Thanks for a great post, but I really hope I don’t need to come back to it no more.
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I do get it. The first time here reading your “dishes” story. I so understand what you are telling us. That would be the reason I would divorce. He doesnt think it’s a big deal that he can rinse the dish and leave it in then sink that I just cleaned up and loaded the dishwasher.
He sees nothing wrong with that. I do
Straight out of our house word for word!!!
There’s something insane about this entire post and the thread following it — it’s too involved for me to put my finger on, but I guess I’d just like to observe that we’ve apparently moved from a culture where the words ‘for better or for worse’ laid the foundation of a marriage, to one where a glass left by a sink can metastasize into such a large failure that it forms part of the rationale for ending one.
I agree that we’ve definitely moved from “for better or for worse” to something much more shallow and fickle. However, in this article, the glass by the sink represents a larger issue – i.e., not to be reduced to the glass but what it represents. I’m still mystified by how many people (a lot of them men – sincerely no offense) get angry about the glass thing and selectively choose to ignore the larger issue of what the glass represented. No one leaves a marriage because of a glass by the sink.
Feminism not only failed at this point, it has gone to shit. Instead of telling men to do the dishes how about we talk about bigger issues? Such as giving men equal custody. Until men get equal custody I won’t care about whatever you women have to say.
you realize it’s men and patriachalism that decides men should pay and women sit back and just live and raise kids. that’s old fashioned conservative culture.
so if you actually care about men’s rights, you’ll fight for feminism and for women to be equal.
remember it was Phyllis Schlafy, an anti-feminist, who stopped the ERA saying if women had equal rights then men wouldn’t be forced to care for them. So if you believe what you say, you’d be on the side of the feminists.
I shared this on my FB page, I hope you don’t mind. I found myself in a debate with a friend of mine. Either he completely missed the point of the post or I did. It’s very interesting to see what other’s make of this topic, one that I can relate to very much and see beyond the seemingly simple act of leaving a glass by the sink. It’s amazing how trying to educate or enlighten can lead to stubborn horn locking on both sides. I loved this post and thought it gave a brilliant insight to something which many couples struggle with and even struggle to describe.
Wow….you hit the nail on the head! I would like to share this on my FaceBook page, Countdown to 60. Great post.
I’m printing this to give to my hubby the next time we have “that” conversation. You need to take this message on tour! Incidentally, I’m also dealing with this with 2 teenage daughters. GIRLS! But they’re teens, with not-fully-formed brains —-YET. My 49-year old hubby should be able to “get” this. It’s totally NOT about the glass. Thank you!
Spot on. That’s exactly how I feel!
The difference is that I do tell my partner I feel that way and yet nothing ever changes.
I even sent this to him but when I asked if he was going ready it, he said he would not. I guess some people aren’t willing to learn from other people’s mistakes…
You’ve figured out your wife’s love language: “Acts of service”.
Not everybody has the same love languages.
It’s a matter of figuring out what your partners language is and then meeting in the middle.
The Five Love Languages is a great book. Anybody who found this article helpful should give it a read.
#truth
My love language is time, with touch running a close second. But I am still bothered by cups left by the sink, clothes not put in the hamper, items not put away in their correct spot, or the toilet lid being left up. Washing ones own dish or putting things away, says “I don’t expect you to clean up after me, I am responsible for my own self” and therefore is a symbol of love whatever ones love language is.
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Thank you, Matt! I’m loving the way you write (I’ve got a ton of shit to do, but you keep sucking me in- I’ve been reading your blog for well over an hour) But seriously, a big, giant thank you. Unfortunately, I have rounded the corner into the apathetic ‘I don’t give a fuck I’m ready for a divorce’ state of being. Your blog makes me laugh and dislike my idiot husband a little less. “Humor is the good natured side of a truth”- Mark Twain
Thought about this today – I’ve commented here before – last I was on the verge of moving out and now I’ve been out for about 3 months. We alternate time in the house with the kids so they don’t shuffle around – we shuffle. This is for the separation – after divorce we will go more traditional. I looked forward to my own place – away from chaos and time to myself. Well meaning friends told me I would be lonely and that I was living in a fantasy. I am home this week with my kids and as I was cleaning out the filthy fridge and cleaning up mess I come home to every other week when it is my week to come home – I think how happy I am to have my small cocoon of sanity that is mine where I can focus on just me and the mess I clean doesn’t belong to another grown person who could do much better if he cared. Note it’s not the kids mess I clean when I come home. They don’t leave grease On the stove or counter or rancid dishcloths (which are used to clean the counter and leave Greasy streaks everywhere). Crumbs on the floor and tables, wrappers all over the place. No thought to organizing the mess that organically piles up in a house for a family. He watched me clean the fridge today – just stood there while I did it. I had cleaned the upstairs fridge weeks ago and said the downstairs needed wiping out – which is put back up fridge do not as full / did he do it? No. So I did it today. Bc I don’t want filth near holiday food I’d soon be cooking for him and my kids and later his parents.
I finished the fridge and asked him to clean some of the glass with stuck on jelly and goo that needed washing on the counter – hopefully he puts it back when he’s done. I’m sure now he will be congratulating himself for “helping”.
Every time I wonder if being to harsh I have a biweekly reminder that I made the right decision. I reminded him of a about a dozen things that needed doing this weekend which he’s forgotten to do and planning for the holidays which he leaves to me to delegate and set the schedule for – and a bunch of other stuff. The mental strain is what makes me so tired- and I start to count down days when I can go back to my little room of my own where I can rest again before I have to do this all over again.
Some idiot said something about how maybe if the guy was better in bed his wife wouldn’t have left him. My man was great in bed – I left him anyway.
Thought about this today – I’ve commented here before – last I was on the verge of moving out and now I’ve been out for about 3 months. We alternate time in the house with the kids so they don’t shuffle around – we shuffle. This is for the separation – after divorce we will go more traditional. I looked forward to my own place – away from chaos and time to myself. Well meaning friends told me I would be lonely and that I was living in a fantasy. I am home this week with my kids and as I was cleaning out the filthy fridge and cleaning up mess I come home to every other week when it is my week to come home – I think how happy I am to have my small cocoon of sanity that is mine where I can focus on just me and the mess I clean doesn’t belong to another grown person who could do much better if he cared. Note it’s not the kids mess I clean when I come home. They don’t leave grease On the stove or counter or rancid dishcloths (which are used to clean the counter and leave Greasy streaks everywhere). Crumbs on the floor and tables, wrappers all over the place. No thought to organizing the mess that organically piles up in a house for a family. He watched me clean the fridge today – just stood there while I did it. I had cleaned the upstairs fridge weeks ago and said the downstairs needed wiping out – which is put back up fridge do not as full / did he do it? No. So I did it today. Bc I don’t want filth near holiday food I’d soon be cooking for him and my kids and later his parents.
I finished the fridge and asked him to clean some of the glass with stuck on jelly and goo that needed washing on the counter – hopefully he puts it back when he’s done. I’m sure now he will be congratulating himself for “helping”.
Every time I wonder if being to harsh I have a biweekly reminder that I made the right decision. I reminded him of a about a dozen things that needed doing this weekend which he’s forgotten to do and planning for the holidays which he leaves to me to delegate and set the schedule for – and a bunch of other stuff. The mental strain is what makes me so tired- and I start to count down days when I can go back to my little room of my own where I can rest again before I have to do this all over again.
Some idiot said something about how maybe if the guy was better in bed his wife wouldn’t have left him. My man was great in bed – I left him anyway.
Dear God, Matt…you’re a damn genius, man. Most divorced men can’t scrape together a fraction of the emotional insight, reflection and self-awareness packed into this article. You hit on so many points that resonate with me and what it was like to be in a marriage with my ex-husband. I love, looooove how you verbalized the attitude of men who expect that exchanging marriage vows automatically entitles them to their wife’s respect (and blind, unearned trust.) I would have loved to suggest that my ex read this before it was too late, but come now… Do I really think there’s a chance in hell he would have taken the time to read something important to my heart? Hahaha! Nope. The mere suggestion would have implied he needs to improve, and therefore would have been an affront to the respect he deserves, dammit. You hit on that dynamic in the “Eat shit, wife” part about men feeling indignant when a wife asks something of them, when they’re already contributing to the household.
My thing was never literal glasses by the sink. In fact, it never bothered me that I did 95% of the million acts required to keep a clean, nice home. I loved it. If I noticed dirty dishes, then guess what… I’d wash them, unbothered (I’m a gem, what can I say.) That said, a man earns (or loses) my respect based on how he handles conflict, how gentle he is regarding my emotions/heart, and the actions he takes to build trust with me (i.e. he knows I’ve been cheated on and so chooses to share his phone, not treat it as a private appendage attached to his body. And might I add here my own personal opinion that your phone only needs to go in the bathroom with you every single damn time if it dispenses toilet paper.) My “glass by the sink” was how emotionally cruel my ex felt he could be towards me. If I’ve communicated for the hundredth time that it rips my heart out when he stonewalls me as a form of conflict resolution….and then he once again storms out of the house, roaring away in his truck while I’m crying on the floor… Well then. Guess what that’s going to tell me? This man who says he loves me doesn’t give a shit about my heart. He just wants me to shut up and keep my mouth closed. If I had a need, especially related to trust, it was a source of conflict for him: Would he please give me hotel information for those once a month work trips? (Not important when he’s so busy. I should trust him because don’t I know he’s a good guy?!) Or the fact that it made me feel very uneasy that his phone and passwords were off limits when it was his idea before we got married to share his phone. (How dare I imply that he’s hiding something! Disrespect!)
It’s like you said… “Men want to fight for their right to leave that glass there.” Your wife technically has no right to any efforts on your part. She technically has no right to infringe on your autonomy. But…do you love her? Are you in a partnership? Or are you still mentally a single man, one who has just added the benefits of a wife to his life? From what I’ve experienced, respect to a lot of men means a woman keeping her mouth shut and letting them do what they’re going to do. Yeah…the more I type, the less I want to ever remarry. On that note, my ex did send me a four-sentence email expressing his “overwhelming regret.” I didn’t respond, because his regret won’t fix anything. If he would have expressed even half of the insight in this article, maybe we’d have something to talk about.
Ok so you start putting your glass on the dishwasher. Then she finds something else to represent the same feeling of disrespect and lack of concern for.her feelings so.you start doing whatever it is she requires. And then she finds another thing and another thing. Eventually you do everything she expects and it’s still not enough. This means there’s deeper unresolved issues. In most cases like this , this type of woman will always find fault because no amount of validating her feelings will work. Then what ?
What if your legit efforts to understand the root cause so that she wouldn’t hurt was the actual thing that mattered to her?
You do not, I assume, know the author’s ex wife, and yet you claim to be able to predict her response. You do not know the author, either, and yet you decide that his understanding of what went wrong in his marriage, his willingness to take responsibility for his lack of concern for her needs is not a cause. Rather, you decide, her”type”—women who want feel heard, to feel valued—just up the ante when their husbands show that they’re listening.
All this leads me to ask: what are you so afraid of? Why do you view kindness and concern for your partner as somehow a dangerous opening for that “type “ of woman?
I feel sorry for you, and the upbringing that shriveled your heart.
I found myself in that trap. Once I changed one thing, it was something else. And each time I changed my anger and resentment grew.
What I didn’t realize was, underneath it all there was something ELSE bothering her. Each thing was just a substitute for that one central issue,
The issue was the fact that I was not present with her. I was there, and doing things, but my mind was somewhere else, thinking about work or hobbies. It’s a problem other people have complained about. She didn’t know how to communicate that one thing to me, so she kept using substitutes which didn’t satisfy her. Once we were separated for awhile I finally figured it out.
Then you would be cleaning up after yourself and not expecting another human to be your servant simply because you have a penis and feel entitled to be waited on
It isnt really about doing individual tasks in order to appease her. It is about living like a fucking adult who can deals with the mess he creates because thats what adults do. Its about NOT leaving all those tasks, that need doing by somebody, for your partner to do. Its about the overall effort of creating a home you are both comfortable in. The unresolved issue isnt with the partner who expected they married a responsible and caring adult, the issue is with the one who expects everyone else to tolerate ongoing lack of responsibility.
Preach. This, right here. The lack of personal responsibility. My STBE keeps saying ” I don’t understand.” Well, there you have it. You don’t understand. You. DON’T. Understand. Full stop. You stopped listening. I stopped talking. We’re over. There’s nothing left except to be adults who need to break down what we’ve built up and start over in two new lives, now with two children. Yay us.
This may have already been addressed, but I don’t feel like reading through all 4000+ comments.
While I do think these issues are important for men to think about in relationships (and act upon), in your specific instance, given hindsight, I wonder whether this was the right partnership/marriage/soulmate for you and you could have absolutely maintained a great marriage with the right partner had you had this epiphany and acted upon it soon enough, or whether this is possibly a sign/symbol/what have you that this wasn’t the right partner/marriage/etc.
It doesn’t, I don’t think, belie your points, but the underlying inference for me in this is “if I had thought about things more from her perspective, I wouldn’t have lost my lobster….”
I know neither the author nor his ex, so I’ll make this as general as I can while still staying on point. Just my take on it for better or worse.
If the wife simply came out and said “Hey… look, when you leave the glass there, it makes me feel like you’re not even aware that it is hurting me in a way that’s actually way bigger than just the glass” instead of hinting around and playing the “This issue we’re currently arguing isn’t actually the real issue that I’m pissed off about and fighting like hell over” game; the guy is now presented with a statement that needs to be digested prior to spewing an an emotional “WTF? Really? Over a glass?” response.
I get what you’re trying to say but your retrospective conclusion is simply not the first or even the second conclusion that a guy left guessing is going to come up with. It takes both parties to communicate how they feel in a way that the other will receive it and process it. You almost knocked it out of the park with “Telling a man something that doesn’t make sense to him once, or a million times, doesn’t make him “know” “. Telling ANYONE something that doesn’t make sense once or a million times isn’t going to make them know. I’m curious if the roles were reversed would my wife of 18 years (living together for 23) even consider that the seemingly minor spat was really part of a bigger issue that was potentially marriage ending.
A couple parting comments….
“Feeling respected by others is important to men.”
Nahhh… It’s important to PEOPLE, not just men.
“It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of.”
And nothing shuts it down quicker than nitpicking the way “you got it”
If “The man DOES NOT want to divorce his wife because she’s nagging him about the glass thing” and “The wife doesn’t want to divorce her husband because he leaves used drinking glasses by the sink.” BUT “She wants to divorce him because she feels like he doesn’t respect or appreciate her”
Then just maybe it’s worth actually stating that thing that’s really bothering you in the first place regardless of your perceived gender based entitlement.
I think there’s a lot of good and fair thoughts and comments here, Brian. Thanks for chiming in.
I do apologize for the gender-specific commentary, as it wasn’t written in a way that reflects what I really believe about men and women, nor with the care I would have taken had I known several million people were going to read it. I was/am as surprised as you are.
I’d seriously like to take a deeper dive on a couple of these points with you, but I’m just a guy with a real corporate job, and have some deadlines to hit.
Hopefully, I won’t forget to come back to this. Thank you again for taking the time to read and write something thoughtful and substantive.
This is a really thoughtful post, and I wanted to say something back to it, because while it’s great, it’s missing the part where a lot of women/people DO directly say what they mean, in addition to all the little things that they care about, and they’re STILL not heard until they’re walking out the door.
(I’m a woman, and all the experiences I’m about to deal involve men I dated, so I’m going to gender it that way)
I dated at least three men, and I had direct conversations with them about how they had changed in our relationship, and I wasn’t happy anymore. In each of these relationships, I point blank said “I am not happy in this relationship anymore, because you don’t put the care and effort into our relationship that you used to, and yet you expect me to still put a high level of care and effort into this relationship”.
Some examples were that all these guys still expected me to surprise them with gourmet home-cooked dinners, wear sexy lingerie and jump on them, play video games with them and/or pay attention to their gaming (even when I wasn’t in the mood), go to sports events with them/cheer for their team, even if I wasn’t into their sport, and occasionally bring them little treats and snacks on the way home from work.
In the beginning, these are guys that would take me out to dinner, or dancing, or a indie musician who I liked (who they may not be wild about). They’d sometimes cook me a fantastic dinner. They complimented my appearance. They took an interest in my art. They took an interest in *me*.
But within 3-6 months of dating, they didn’t want to go out anymore – it was a dumb waste of money. Let’s order in from that sushi place that’s pretty good, instead of going to the amazing one downtown. They didn’t want to go to a concert I liked – that artist was stupid and unoriginal. They didn’t notice my new haircut, it’s just hair for god’s sake, and it’s going to grow eventually anyway, so who cares?
I’d just like to take a moment to address something hear before I go on – part of the problem wasn’t just the “no”/lack of interest in me. Part of it was that when I pressed for *why* we weren’t doing the things we used to, it was because they were stupid, or not that important, or dumb, or childish. It was never “Oh, you know what? I can’t go to that show tonight, because work is crazy and I really just need to stay in and decompress”. It was “god, I can’t believe you listen to that awful musician. Her songs suck”. It was never “Actually, I’m close to hitting my budget for restaurant spending this month, so how about we cook in, and we’ll go to that place you want to go to next month?”. It was “Jesus, why do you want to go to such fancy places? It makes me feel like you’re a gold-digger” (note: I have ALWAYS taken turns paying the bill with the people I date. And I ALWAYS make sure that I’m also taking them to fancy places they like, and not just always asking for fancy places myself. I also generally eat out at budget places, and am only in the mood to splurge a bit every month or two).
So, a couple months in, all those loving perks that were part of what attracted me to someone in the first place where gone. But I was expected to keep up my end. And it’s funny, how when I commented about all the things that *he* wasn’t doing anymore, I was being a nagging bitch. But when HE complained about all the stuff that *I* wasn’t doing, it was because I was a bad partner, and being really unfair to him.
Then the talks start. Sitting him down. Saying “I’m really not in the mood to dress up in sexy lingerie for you anymore, because you don’t pay attention to me unless you want to fuck me. You don’t ask about my art anymore, or look at what I’ve been working on, and ask how I did it. You just want me to play your video games with you ever night”. And every, fucking, time, it ALWAYS turns back into how *I’m* the person who wasn’t holding up their end of the relationship, even when I *was* still doing some of the things that I’d done from the beginning. It was always on me.
Eventually, I break up with these guys. And I tell them why. And EVERY SINGLE TIME, they’re shocked. SHOCKED. I NEVER told them that I felt neglected, they say. Sure, sometimes I would cry and being ridiculous, but I never actually TOLD them.
Newsflash: I have papers saved that I read from, when talking to them, where I point blank say “you are neglecting me and our relationship”. I have EMAILS that I forward to them, where I point blank say “you are neglecting me and our relationship”. Using the exact words I just typed. You are neglecting me and our relationship.
But I’m told that was different. Because I was being really bitchy and ridiculous and they didn’t actually realize that I meant I was so unhappy that I was going to break up with them. But now they know, and so now, it’s going to change. They swear. It will. Because NOW they understand. Now that I’m ready to leave the relationship.
Except I’m ready to leave the relationship. So I don’t really give a shit if they understand or care now, because I’m done. And I tell them, sorry, I’m done.
Then, I got the “you won’t even give me a chance” speech. The “I must mean so little to you that you won’t even TRY ONE TIME, what kind of heartless, cold person are you?” speech. Because, you know, all those other chances I gave? Those times I tried to talk about it? They didn’t count. Those didn’t mean anything. Because I didn’t do it right.
Again, it’s all on me.
This happened to me, personally, three times. THREE. And I can’t tell you how many other women I know (some men too, but honestly, more women) who have the same story. Who went through the same situation. Often repeatedly, with different men.
It’s fucking nuts.
Now I do agree with you, and I have personally witnessed situations where people don’t expressly and explicitly state what they need. I have talked to female friends and been like “dude, you need to TELL HIM IN PLAIN ENGLISH what you need. He might get it, he might not get it, but he’s NEVER gonna get it if you just bitch about his video games and don’t tell him that YOU need more quality time with him to feel connected”. So yeah, I totally get you and agree with you that sometimes, women don’t express themselves.
But I can also tell you that the number of times I’ve point-blank expressed myself and STILL been ignored…well, like I said, it’s three times. Three guys who were shocked, bewildered, and told anybody who would listen that I just up and walked out on them. They had no idea I was unhappy. They had no idea there were problems. I just up and left them, so they’re probably better off, since I proved myself to be a cold, cruel bitch who wouldn’t give them a second chance.
TLDR: Often, we point blank say what we need. It still isn’t heard.
JFC, this, so much. I could have written it myself, except there’d be four men who got the same speech. Men literally don’t GAFF what the grievances are until their partner is finished with the relationship–then, when the consequences of their behavior come home to roost, that’s when they finally sound a bit like they’re more open to change. Except they aren’t. At most you’ll get a halfhearted attempt for a little while, and then they’re back to their old antics. They’re happy to endure a little screaming and yelling as long as they still get the benefits they’re used to getting.
No more. Ever. I found a man who was respectful and showed it right from the get-go, and we’ve been together 15 years. I make sure he knows he’s appreciated, and he does everything he can to make this relationship a real partnership.
Don’t ever fall for “But I’ll totally change now!” It’s just a stalling technique. How they are at their worst is how they naturally are. They can pretend, and it might even last a while, but it won’t last if it’s not their natural outlook.
Years ago I was cleaning the house and my husband was in his chair watching TV. I must have walked by him a dozen times. Finally I said “Are you going to help me?” BTW,we both worked full time jobs. He replied “I didn’t know you needed help. You didn’t tell me you needed help.” Okay it’s like that. Several weeks passed. I cooked dinner one night, 3 chicken breasts. One each for myself and our two boys. My hubby went to make his plate, came out and asked “Where is the chicken?” I replied “I didn’t know you were hungry. You didn’t tell me you were hungry.” At that point he realized where I was coming from turned around and made a plate of rice and vegetables. He is much better now.
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Reading this article thinking holy shit, you actually GET it. I’m currently inwardly tearing my hair out over my own still-husband’s ‘glass on the sink’ and it’s heartening. A highly intelligent, motivated guy who cares for me yet doesn’t do the one thing I tell him over and over that I need from him. The glass on the sink representing so much more in a relationship reminds me of that line in Phenomenon a bit- cheesy movie but ‘He bought her chairs’ really stuck in my memory. 🙂
My wife and I have similar struggles. I am a naturally messy person. I understand that’s not fun to live with. I try to fight it constantly, but I often fail. So I often leave the glass by the sink, but my wife takes it in a similarly personal way. At some point the constant drama comes down to me hearing, “This thing about you is unforgivable. You need to be something else or my feelings will remain hurt. I am going to hold both of our happiness hostage until you change.” I understand that this comes from her insecurity. When she feels this, she tries to exert control to feel better, but that gets my hackles up. A damaging cycle ensues. It’s exhausting to feel constantly blamed and inferior. She feels unloved. Neither of us intends to make the other feel in these ways. I don’t know what to do other than try to self-discipline, not hate her for it, and maybe someday it will not be so hard, but I feel like part of me will have to die first. It’s hard to be excited about that and I’m not sure I can realistically be successful.
How do you feel inferior because of the expectation you clean up after yourself? Why do you feel entitled to be waited on?
I hope your poor wife has left you by now.
You might do well to look up “toxic masculinity” to figure out why you keep up with these childish power-play games with the woman you ostensibly love and honor above all others. She’s going to leave you if you don’t find healing for whatever it is inside you that makes you think of marriage as a competition. You’re working against her, and she’s going to get sick of it one fine day. When she does, remember this? Please? You’ll just go on to make the same mistake over and over again, and you’ll blame women for being the unreasonable ones in every instance when the problem’s really the indoctrination you received about relationships. Learn the lesson now, and you’ll save yourself a lot of heartache coming down the line. My dad never learned that lesson–and he lost every single person he ever loved in his life. Don’t go down that road. I know where it ends, and it’s not good.
i feel ya. i also feel like i’m being held hostage to someone else’s insecurities and control issues. i DO work at being mindful, and accommodating. but i also walk around feeling like i’m gonna inadvertently break some rule and i’m gonna pay for it, and i have to deal with that stress. the thing is, i don’t lay these trips on her. i do not try to impose MY way on her, and i don’t hold her hostage to my hurt feelings if she doesn’t do things the way i like them done, or if she does it “wrong” to my way of thinking. and we get in the same cycle, cause eventually i get annoyed, feeling like i’m being talked to like a 5 year old, and that my methods and ways of living don’t count and aren’t respected. and that starts a round of animosity. there are more important things in life to be concerned about than a glass by the sink, and those things i put my attention and effort to. but i still try to get along. it often feels very one sided though.
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I’m not married, but the thing that gripped me most about this article is the part about not being someone’s mother
“But she didn’t want to be my mother. She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household”.
This is spot on, and I have dated men like this a few times – who need to be told what to do, or don’t worry about things like planning holidays, talking to the landlord with complaints, doing the food shopping, planning what we will do at the weekend – don’t worry Bunty will organise all of that seems to the be attitude. It’s literally so off putting for me as a woman, that even if they have lots of other good qualities like kindness, or trustworthiness, eventually I will have to leave them as I do not want to be the mother to an adult man.
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I see this article pop up all over /r/relationships all the time, and it absolutely drives me bonkers, because it’s peddled as The Article You Gotta Read. The Article That’ll Solve All Your Interpersonal Problems! When all I get out of it when I read it is, “Local man too much of an idiot to connect ‘person asks me not to do this’ with ‘this is important to person.'” “Local man invents thinkpiece to provide smokescreen for his poor communication skills.” “Local man decides to cash in on his divorce and gets clapped on the back for deciphering the sort of communication most people hash out in grade school.” I’m so glad I’m a lesbian.
Cash in, you said. Clearly you have no idea how much money is NOT in blogging.
Because some people have radically different lives than you, some of them come to realizations about empathy and human communication only after suffering painful consequences for their ignorance. It’s okay if that doesn’t make sense to you, just as I don’t understand how people like canned spinach or enjoy their hobby of raising blue-ribbon hogs that they show off at county fairs.
People are different. It would be weirder if we weren’t.
Thanks for starting out the new year dishing out your abundant kindness.
Dear Matt,
Every time I check in here to see what you’ve written, which is often, I come away inspired. It’s a bit like dipping into a treasure chest of healing words. For you to blog with such high quality consistency–even though there may not be a ton of money to be made–is invaluable. It speaks to the generosity, empathy, and caring of your character. I am filled with respect and appreciation for all you give us.
One gets the sense that your wisdom and understanding comes at a great price. For you to so openly share what you’ve learned (and earned by paying with your heart’s blood) is a blessed gift.
It is clear that you are honoring the highest within yourself and others by giving us salient, and incredibly helpful, insight into our relationships. The work you do here is critical to both overcoming and/or preventing damage to the hearts and souls of ourselves and those we love.
I sincerely hope you are rewarded with all you deserve for being such an outstanding human being.
Happy New Year!
Kcat
Good thing I’m gay.
Ha. There’s no escape! Since it’s a metaphor, your “dish by the sink”—as the culprit or person burdened by the actions of another—simply manifests as some other scenario.
But it’s always present. A thing that matters to one, but not to the other, and getting a human being to start mindfully caring about something simply because it’s important to someone they care about and/or love.
Nothing tears people apart quite like this one idea can.
I have been trying so hard to get my wife to want me. I have basically made her hate me. Because I have not been able to understand her emtional shut down with me. until I read this I’ve been doing all the duties of our marriage and household wondering why she was not responding when all along I wasn’t listening to what she was trying to tell. Me. You have probably saved our marriage. Thanks and further reads you could forward me would be greatly appreciated i Will forward his to all my friends in similar situations.
I told my husband this morning that I was leaving him today. This gives me some hope that perhaps he too can and will get it.
I want to say that I wish i read this before my marriage ended, but i would have been one of the guys dismissing it. Only in retrospect can i see how absolutely accurate this is. I finally realized it about the time i first read this article last year how much i did the “what’s the big deal?” routine, and seeing the article again just makes me hope I can avoid doing it to anyone i may meet in the future.
Funny thing is- it works in reverse. I was the one who saw how practical it was to wash the glass or put it in the dishwasher or whatever. Had to mention it every time. Had to take 2-3 minutes to complain about the 5 seconds to take care of the glass(or emptying an overflowing ashtray- or emptying it before it overflowed). But, it still wasn’t about the glass/ashtray/whatever. It was about wanting some time where she wasn’t “on-duty”. Home, where she was supposed to be able to relax; kids finally in bed, and rather than leaving her be- the idiot husband was cutting into the time she carved out (staying up late when she really needed to sleep just so she could have a few minutes) with nit-picking about an ashtray when the house was kind of a mess anyways. It’s true- we’d take a bullet for them, but not tolerate a tear.
Instead of giving her that, i built up that the rest of the mess was because she set a bad example by leaving her glass. It was because she didn’t take a few seconds to do things before they built up and became a day-long cleaning project. I forgot the old rule that the fight is never about what the fight is about.
Good for you, Hat. I’ve shown this article to my husband and he professes to get it, but still the dishes accumulate, the little wrappers stay on the floor, he still can’t find “the right” full time job. Death by a thousand cuts continues, so I’ll be serving him divorce papers next month. I am heartbroken to do it, but I can’t live this life any more. I can’t support him and still be the full time mommy to him and to our two growing children. I have to tap out of the marriage. That’s that. And he’ll be confused and wondering why. That’s the thing that will kill me the most. Because he’s not paying attention.
Truly the fight is never what the fight is really about.
sorry it got to this point, jenn, but good for you for taking the step…maybe like matt, he’ll become enlightened and change his ways in the future…
thanks, meridda. I just hope he will be an adult about it and not totally be an ass. But… history shows that he may well just be an ass and it will be a tough haul to get to the end. What he does in the future is up to him. I can’t do it any more. And I won’t do it any more. I appreciate your support.
This line of thinking is exactly why marriage is dying. It’s always the man’s fault and women are not held accountable for the things that they do. Yea this guy had his problems but he’s blaming everything on himself when his wife was not perfect. Keep it up ladies. Soon most of you won’t have husbands to complain about because you will be by yourselves. Marriage is becoming less and less attractive to a lot of us to be honest. Very little benefit but a whole lot of risk.
You sound like a prize. Keep it up.
Yea and I’m sure your husband is happy as clams with you too. Don’t kid yourself. He’s not happy with you either but men tend to hold things inside so as to not rock the boat. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe if you stopped acting like a mom, then he would stop acting like a child. Your husband may be complete bum but odds are he was a bum when you married him so whose fault is it. Have you ever gotten to the root of why he can’t find the “right” job. Is something wrong with him. Also have you asked yourself what he does right in the relationship. He might be lazy and can’t find a good job but he also might be extremely romantic. I don’t know. Before you throw him out make sure your own house is in order. You owe that to your family.
No, he’s not happy. And he’s never been the one to forge forward and take risks. I think 9 years is long enough for someone to find a job, don’t you?? My house is in order, my friend. You don’t know me, or him. Just keep your generalized statements to yourself. He was a bum when I met him – I hoped he would evolve. He didn’t. My bad, 100%. Which is why I’m making the change, rather than let this albatross drag me down any further. He’s too proud to do work that is beneath him. I’m not. He was raised to be “too good” for that. I see and acknowledge what he does do right. Unfortunately, that doesn’t pay the bills. Entitled kids, take note: the world owes you nothing. Sure, I’m at fault; I’m a pushy bitch who wants better in this life. I’m not getting it. I’ve given it plenty of time. Almost a decade. So peace out, Jimmy. And if you ever choose to marry and have children, I hope you won’t expect your wife to also be your mommy. A LOT of men do. I just want to do my own fucking laundry.
My wife never told me about these things that had bothered her until she was telling me that she no longer loves me. She let these things fester for years and now our 20-year marriage is all but over. I am in no way trying to defend myself here. I do feel that I could have remedied the situation if she had expressed her feelings about it. It’s obvious that we had communication issues too. I am 50% responsible for our failed marriage. Our forever and ever has ended. I will take what l have learned and apply it in any future relationship(s).
Really sorry to read this. Totally get it.
It’s brutal. Our mistakes are our best educators. It’s unfortunate how big the stakes can get, though.
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It seems so wasteful to me to dirty every glass in the cupboard every time I want to drink some water. What prevents a woman from seeing a different perspective and instead feeling pain. I want to ensure there are plenty of glasses for my significant other and any guests that may stop by. Nobody washes their jeans every time they wear them, or their towels after a single use. Can you imagine throwing a towel in the hamper after a single use and her not having one for her morning shower? Love me because I’m resourceful. Look beyond yourself and see all the ways I shower you with love and respect. This article suggests that men should continue to overlook the flaws of their mate while engaging in very submissive behavior. Show me the article that says I leave the glass on the counter because I love you this many ways. Until then I’m calling this article an attempt at feminising men.
I did a piss-poor job of avoiding pigeon-holing gender stereotypes in this article, so I understand your reaction.
You and I agree on the sensibility of reusing a glass or reusing a towel after a shower.
But getting hung up on the minutiae is a mistake and the reason many relationships fail.
Bottom line: People can experience a thing that hurts them while simultaneously someone else is unfazed by that same thing.
It’s not relevant what the actual event is. It can be a glass. Profanity. A religious stance or political opinion. A food preference or allergy. A method of raising children. Whatever.
Two people are there witnessing or experiencing the same thing, but their reactions are different. Not intentionally. It’s just their gut reaction to the moment based on life experience or genetics or whatever.
And the critical lesson missed by so many (namely myself in my marriage) is that if you want to have a lasting relationship with another human, you better find a way to acknowledge, understand, and account for this other person you care about experiencing something differently than you.
If it HURTS them, and you keep doing it over and over again, maybe even telling them they’re crazy or stupid or weak for feeling hurt by whatever the thing is, that relationship WILL eventually end. Unpleasantly, most likely.
If you want to stay single and only be liked by people you have surface-level relationships with, then none of this matters.
If you want to be married and create a solid relationship built to last, and possibly a stable and reliable home for children, then this is a prerequisite to achieving that.
You can’t have both. You can’t always “be right” or “win” whenever your marriage partner communicates that something you find silly or inconvenient is causing them pain or stress.
You acknowledge it, and work to prevent that from happening out of concern for them.
Otherwise, single life, divorce, or a steady diet of shitty relationships are inevitable.
It would be easier if it wasn’t true. But it is true. And when more people start getting this right, less people will have stressful, suckfest lives, and fewer broken families and relationships.
I understand what you are saying. In my marriage I ecpierieand a lot of me giving 100% and my wife not giving a 2 shits. I read another one of your posts about a golf tourney and a hike. Sure, it could have been recorded. In my case I would have had to watch it at 3am when the house was still because if I always gave in there is no time for me. This is how we lose our self identity. My point is this, if both parties aren’t giving 100%, if both aren’t able to look beyond their own selfish hang ups then it’s not a relationship worth your effort. The glass analogy was her hang up. Did you ever do the dishes, wash the laundry and put everything away after you did all the outside work and cleaned a pool only to be critisisized for leaving cup on the counter? I have. It was a lopsided relationship, toxic to its core.
Givers have limits, takers have none. I’m sure you were good to your wife in other ways. Women are mostly nuts and men are oblivious. The key to happiness is finding a person who accepts your dirty glass because you give in so many other ways.
My dirty glass incident was true. That lead to a string of profanity that seemed to never stop because neither did her constant scrutiny.
Matt, as I was typing out a response to Sean, hoping it would be at least readable, if not helpful in some way, I saw how you eloquently, empathically, and thoughtfully answered him with the speed of light. Wow. I have developed another level of respect for your ability to make what can be very difficult look very easy.
For what it’s worth, here’s my two cents:
Sean, your response to Matt’s answer makes it clear you gave much and received little in your past relationship, and I’m very sorry for the pain you’ve experienced. You said: “Givers have limits, takers have none.” This is true. I wish for you all the love you desire in a mutually giving and genuinely caring relationship going forward.
My feeling is that this article/blog is about helping partners listen and communicate with loving intention, and act accordingly, in order to avoid the misery, anguish, and pain partners can often inflict on each other through sheer obliviousness, or selfishness, or heaven forbid, malice. There’s nothing here about “feminizing men” or insisting one partner behaves “very submissively” while their imperfect significant other tromps all over them. It is the opposite of that.
To me, this article/blog is about striving to give the highest love to one another in our relationships, and I believe that is a goal worth aiming for.
Thank you very much. It’s important to me that as many people as possible see it as it was intended. 🙂
Agreed, completely. And it works both ways. And since it does work both ways, and we all now are atuned to this revelation, men, as a group and individually, are now fed up being saddled with accountablility while women, as a group and individually, are not. Rather the opposite…women are forgiven their transgressions in relationships, as this post so eloquently reveals. Millions of views, 4K+ comments: every comment that goes along the gist of ‘finally, someone gets it’ is lavishly praised as genius level wokeness. Every comment that presents even the slightest inkling of pushback, or, more importantly, strives to articulate an alternative POV, is met with disdain and derision, if not outright mockery and anger. A previous comment mentioned women are nuts and men are oblivious. In that scenario, which group requires catering to, and which requires the act of catering?
Sean: if the problem is really the different attitude about dishes, you can resolve it by taking full responsibility for the dishes. Cause the truth is, somebody has to put them in the dishwasher, and run the dishwasher, and put the dishes back in the cabinets. It sounds like, as in most homes, all of those tasks have defaulted to the woman, who therefore should get final say on the how and why of the process but you want it done your way even if you havent committed to being completely responsible for it.
If you want the how and why to be yours, then you say you will make sure everything is in the dishwasher by a certain time of day, and you deal with it. Every single say, til death do you part. You be the magical dish fairy that makes sure there are adequate clean dishes and adequate usable counterspace not covered by potentially reusable dishes when meal prep and serving times come round. Keep in mind, there is a constant and never ending cycle to keep up with,and you will have to have consistent and dependable habits, and nobody is ever going to thank you for it, though everybody will be grouchy about it when something interferes and the soup is ready but all the bowls are by the sink because that is the household habit you think best.
You are being disingenuous. If you want to use the same glass all day, TELL HER. See? Communication.
When it’s just the two of us, it’s not such a big deal. When our adult kids are home, we each save a glass for the day. And announce it, so there isn’t any confusion. Again: communication.
Communication is THE key to a good relationship.
This goes to the heart of understanding another human being. Do you love and respect them? Do you care enough to do the things that make them feel loved and not hate you every time you blow off their feelings? Great article! I keep rereading it.
Weak. That is what the author is. You have let another person dictate to you what they feel your failures are. Marriage IS a partnership but what you had was a dictatorship. We all do different things to complete our marriages. Perhaps a glass gets left in the sink because the baby was hanging off the back off the couch, or a storm was rolling in and cars need to be moved into the garage, or kids are fighting and it needs to be broken up. The author puts a hardened stamp on her judgement of him and accepts it but doesn’t expand on these other outlying situations. My wife does things that drive me up the wall, but I accept them. I do things that piss her off but she accepts them. Life can’t always be perfect. Glasses can’t always be put in the dishwasher. Weak minded, weak willed, and low self esteem is what is going on here, not a glass in the sink.
Your interpretation of what I’ve written here is flawed, and that’s probably because you’re projecting the dynamics in your household to the dynamics in my former marriage, which makes sense, but is likely not apples-to-apples.
I didn’t accidentally leave my glass by the sink. I put it there on purpose. Habitually. All the time. It wasn’t to comfort or rescue a child, or some other out-of-the-ordinary situation. Wouldn’t someone wanting to divorce over that be bat-shit crazy?
My ex-wife and mother of my son is not bat-shit crazy.
Moreover, specific to my marriage, this is NOT what ended it. It’s a symbolic story illustrating the types of things that ended my marriage, and that I believe strongly are the source of most divorces and break-ups.
I posted this in a previous reply upthread. It applies here, since a “dish by the sink” can be something else entirely in each individual relationship:
People can experience a thing that hurts them while simultaneously someone else is unfazed by that same thing.
It’s not relevant what the actual event is. It can be a glass. Profanity. A religious stance or political opinion. A food preference or allergy. A method of raising children. Whatever.
Two people are there witnessing or experiencing the same thing, but their reactions are different. Not intentionally. It’s just their gut reaction to the moment based on life experience or genetics or whatever.
And the critical lesson missed by so many (namely myself in my marriage) is that if you want to have a lasting relationship with another human, you better find a way to acknowledge, understand, and account for this other person you care about experiencing something differently than you.
If it HURTS them, and you keep doing it over and over again, maybe even telling them they’re crazy or stupid or weak for feeling hurt by whatever the thing is, that relationship WILL eventually end. Unpleasantly, most likely.
If you want to stay single and only be liked by people you have surface-level relationships with, then none of this matters.
If you want to be married and create a solid relationship built to last, and possibly a stable and reliable home for children, then this is a prerequisite to achieving that.
You can’t have both. You can’t always “be right” or “win” whenever your marriage partner communicates that something you find silly or inconvenient is causing them pain or stress.
You acknowledge it, and work to prevent that from happening out of concern for them.
Otherwise, single life, divorce, or a steady diet of shitty relationships are inevitable.
It would be easier if it wasn’t true. But it is true. And when more people start getting this right, less people will have stressful, suckfest lives, and fewer broken families and relationships.
I really admire how you’ve really walked the walk in your replies to this post. It shows that there’s a high likelihood that you did the hard emotional work needed to grow and change at a fundamental level. I’ve never seen a man manage that, and hats off to you. I hope you find love again one day.
Hmmmm. So, you believe that introspection and learning one’s flaws is a weakness? That makes me sad. Because I see it as strength.
Most marriages don’t start out with kids increasing the ante. They begin with two people who purportedly love and respect each other. But when the needs of one are ignored by the other, that love and respect can grow to be disinterest and disgust.
For me, in my first marriage, it wasn’t even the glasses, the dirty dishes or the dirty clothes not even landing in the basket on his side of the closet. It was that he expected to be the ONE person in the family who got instant consideration. Ahead of four little kids.
And that led to my love for him dying, and respect for him withering. Even when there are kids in the picture, partners need to see each other and their needs.
It is okay to do favors for her to keep the marriage going, but she should be doing the same for you. It is wrong to say that the wife should get her way all the time just because she is unhappy with something. She should be thinking about the husband too.
I don’t have the time or energy to reply thoroughly to this, but trust me when I tell you that your seemingly reasonably take on this subject causes many people to divorce and/or break up.
OF COURSE each should compromise. But you’re confusing each person’s personal preferences and desires with what I’m really talking about, which is one person’s actions actually HURTING their partner.
It’s not about “making her happy,” it’s about mindfully avoiding actions which she is communicating to you as something that HURTS her.
When you don’t believe it because that same thing doesn’t hurt you, it makes it even worse.
This is a really important idea for people to understand.
I do a lot of professional writing regarding gender dynamics within toxic groups (groups that do a lot of harm to participants–whether they hold some kind of nominal power or not there). You’ve hit the nail on the head here and elsewhere.
I want to mention something that you’re alluding to here: the idea of disparity in levels of emotional work between men and women.
We know that men trapped within toxic-masculinity mindsets look at relationships as a power struggle. He who holds the most power wins. And I use that pronoun deliberately, because usually the one with the power is the man. He uses that power to shove labor onto the woman, who gets a “second shift” of caring for him and his needs as well as an actual paid job as well as most of the labor maintaining their shared home and raising any kids they have. It’s exhausting and grueling, and most men in that mindset won’t even see that labor unless it’s not done.
But there’s another form of work in relationships, and that’s emotional work. Caring, looking out for, asking, setting the environment, that’s such a hugely uplifting thing to the person receiving it. I go get a soda: “Honey, you want one?” He goes to refill his coffee: “You ready for a refill too?” It’s second nature to us after 15 years together. He checks in with me sometimes, or asks if I need help doing something if I’m seeming frazzled–or just does it. (I hear the laundry machines going right now. Last night I washed the shower curtain that I knew he’d been planning to do, but he was so tired after work…) I, in my turn, try to show him in as many ways as I can that I appreciate him as well and that I’m looking out for him too. We talk to each other every couple or three months to ensure that nobody’s feeling like they’re doing more than their share; sometimes it has happened on either side, and we adjust accordingly.
And that’s work. It’s pleasant work for a couple in synch, but it’s work all the same. However, men trapped in toxic masculinity will bristle at the need to do any work at all, even emotional work. It screams of weakness to them. It makes them feel emasculated. That’s women’s work as surely as dishwashing is to them, and they define themselves as not-women and therefore would be lowering themselves to do any of it.
A funny thing happens on the way to the divorce hearing though: Women trapped in those cultures don’t respect “women’s work” either. They’re also doing their best to shove as much of that labor onto their partners. I’ve heard of couples where the dynamic you describe is happening with a wife doing it to her husband, not the other way around!
Emotional children, hurting each other, slapping each other, bickering and sniping at each other. And nobody learns, and nobody grows, and nothing changes with the next relationship. Toxic masculinity: it’s a heckuva drug.
I am divorcing one that “will help but we have to just ask him” then shows up and helps when the work is almost done. I call that passive aggressive toxic. In my family, and the work ethic that I have is, if everyone else is running around doing something, you get up and ask how you can help, or jump right in.
Of course, this is a man who was raised by a woman who asks to help, then stands in the middle of the room, helpless, and asks how to do whatever she was assigned, where the tools are, what the minutae are of the task. So, “helping.”
I can’t wait to be free of him. And teach our children what being helpful really means.
Theres that term again! You win toxic masculinity bingo! However, Im not sure its a prize worth claiming. I’m wondering: is it toxic masculinity when, as you point out, the woman pushes labor, emotional, physical, whatever, onto the man?
Wow! This is exactly what happened in my marriage. I wish I would of realized this before it ended. I thought she was just always nagging! I wish us men had to take marriage classes before getting married. Women are so difficult to understand and seems like you must have PhD in understanding women in order to stay married. Well I’ll keep this in mind in my next relationship.
Good luck with that. The next time, I’m just going to get a Beagle.
a beagle can’t be your live-in mom either. you will still have to learn how to clean up after yourself.
And dogs poop unless you train them to poop outside. and you still have to clean that up too, unless you live in the country.
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As a self-professed former “glass by the sink” nagging wife, I want to say: 1) hats off to you sir for learning the true joy of living your marriage with a servant heart; and 2) wives like me who spent far too many years micro-obsessing about what a dirty sock on the floor does or doesn’t represent should heed the words of blogger Debbie Wilkens Baisden who learned after it was too late what it meant to appreciate the opportunity to pick up her deceased husband’s dirty socks off the floor (https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fherviewfromhome.com%2Fstop-being-a-butthole-wife%2F&display=popup&ref=plugin&src=like&kid_directed_site=0&app_id=343271656121374). Male, female, husband, wife… If we all strive to focus on giving more than on getting, we’d actually receive far more from a rich, rewarding, love-filled marriage in return for our effort toward being less selfish.
I’ve read and shared that article from Debbie before. It’s a good reminder for all of us — whether with our partners, children, friends, parents, coworkers, whoever — to maintain perspective.
It’s so hard. But we have to try. In ANY moment, the question is “does this really matter?” Or “will this matter six months from now, or even next week?” Or “is how I’m feeling about this situation more important than my relationship with them?”
I get so irritated with my fourth-grader, especially in the mornings before school. I get angry with him, and too often act like it with my words and tone.
I have never loved anything like I love my son. And I regret every time I treated some crap that doesn’t matter as if it was worth snapping at him over. Even if it’s “justified”
as a parent, it doesn’t pass my common sense test: “If this was the last conversation we ever had, how would I treat him?”
We take things for granted, and contribute to disconnection and brokenness over things that aren’t worth it.
Only those willing to choose the other human despite their feelings in a given moment (*while also being chosen in return) can make it to Forever.
The rest of us wither and die.
Thank you for sharing.
Such good stuff!
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This speaks to my heart – big time. My ex – now housemate was a massive culprit for this. I work shifts (14 hour shifts sometimes, with an hour commute either side, up to 7 days/nights in a row). She would never wash up a single dish the entire time I would be on shift. It would all be left to do for my first ‘Day off’. Same for all the other chores in the house.
It is 100% about respect. The fact that she rarely did any of these things and I did ALL almost all of them. She expected praise when she did anything and would bring it up for weeks that she did something (take out the bin, do the dishes), even if she only did half the task.
It;’s true. I felt totally disrespected. Like she didn’t respect anything that I do around the house (or the standard to which I do it, as she genuinely thought she was doing things to the same standard. Sorry, our dishes have no food left on them when I wash them), and I felt she had no respect for my paid work. She genuinely thought it was the equivalent of working part-time, as I would be home during the day sometimes.
It’s hard. I don’t expect her to help around the house. I expect her to share the workload. She lives here, she created half the mess (I’m tempted to say more) and she should clean half of it up and do half the maintenance of running a household.
Unfortunately, we are stuck in a position where we have to live together due to financial constraints. It’s manipulative really, because she knows in the end, I will cave and end up doing most of the chores in the house, because she knows I can only tolerate a certain amount of mess. Now that we have split up, I have nothing to fall back on.
of course, this was not the only thing that led to the dwindling of our relationship, however, this blatant lack of respect was very evident in many other aspects of our relationship. These acts were very representative of how she didn’t understand my career choice and some of the things that go along with that. Moreover, it’s representative of the fact that she didn’t CHOOSE to TRY and understand. When you make that realisation, it’s a very sad thing and it did cause me a lot of hurt.
It’s heartbreaking, And it’s really sad to see all the people on here saying that women will just find something else to complain about. I completely disagree. I feel I would be a lot happier if I wasn’t living in an environment where I am constantly being disrespected. Do you people genuinely think we like complaining to our significant others?
For those of you talking about feminism, I don’s see how this is NOT a feminist issue. I myself am a female, I have a fulfilling career, yet I am still expected to come home at the end of the day and be a homemaker, despite a lot of the time, it not being convenient to either of our lifestyles! This stereotype falls on me as the ‘Femme’ in our relationship. I’m sure I can speak for a lot of other women who feel the same in being expected to have a career and then come home and carry out all the chores around the home without the other person in the relationship. It downplays the amount of effort that goes into each of these tasks.
If you’re tired after a day of work, then so am I. Please share the workload around the house.
Rant over I feel a lot better now.
Aimee, I totally feel you. I’m in the final month of my lease with a ‘best friend’ and it’s been completely demoralising for the past several months to be living with someone who claims to care about my wellbeing but then actively sabotages it through her thoughtlessness.
I’m a very tidy person, and she is not. Keeping a tidy house is one of the best things i can do to keep my anxiety in check. I do the bulk of the housework and have done so throughout the entire lease, which included me finishing my undergrad + working 30 hours a week on graveyard shift, to outright unemployment. She has also been busy, but like your situation, whenever she does housework, there’s a huge song and dance over it even when it’s done poorly or is incomplete.
In addition, the kitchen has become her personal space which means that it’s pretty much unusable either due to her sitting in front of the sink or her leaving her personal effects on the counter space (hairbrushes, handbags, books, deodorant, etc.) She apologises about leaving her mess everywhere constantly, but it’s that shitty guilt-trip non-apology (“I’m SO sorry, I’m SUCH an inconvenience, I’m THE WORST PERSON ALIVE, etc.”) and there’s never any follow-through on actually trying to amend said behaviour.
I actively sat her down late last year and told her that while it was clearly unintentional, her messiness and negligent behaviour were actively causing me harm (as my mental health thrives in an orderly house and suffers when it’s in a messy one). In response, she cried and said that I was asking her to ‘change her personality’ and that she was unwilling to do that for me. She has since then continued to apologise every single day for leaving her dirty socks on the breakfast bar and leaving her dishes in the sink, but she has not once actually picked her dirty socks up or done her dishes before leaving the house for the day.
Words are cheap and she’s accepted me telling her that I’m moving out as I’m moving back in with my parents (temporarily as I look for a 1 bed flat !), but living with her has completely annihilated our relationship on my end as she’s made it abundantly clear that our relationship is only acceptable when it’s on her terms.
Rant over ! Thanks for listening ! I can’t wait to move out and begin to heal !
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MY DAUGHTER DIVORCED ME BECAUSE I LEFT SLIPPERS BY THE SINK
I took me a long time to decide to spend the time to read this post because I thought that I was so busy with my life and that there was no time to read something that was about divorce, as it was not on my plate.
After reading this, I see that I fit into some of the patterns that are described. Not that it really matters would have been my normal response, as my life is quite busy running my business etc. I did get the real point however that validating my love for the females in my life, by acknowledging and doing things that show them I care about them is important.
My wife did not point me to this post, but instead it was presented by my (over 30) daughter and I think the reason was, that she loves me and does not feel she receives that respectful love back. Her reason for this opinion may be that because I am not a big talker, unless it’s about a subject or something that I am fluent in, I do not communicate my feelings or option’s that well.
She is currently living with us and is good at expressing how she feels about the things going on in our daily lives. She is highly organized and I know, would like to train me to be the same. She has watched our lives pass with me starting a million projects and only completing 1000 of them and that leaves quite a few left to go. This may be the A-D-D in me or just being a man not sure.
She told me to read this article and substitute “dishes” with “slippers” as I collect them in my travels and bring home suitcases full. They are stored in many places around our house like in front of the couch, the kitchen sink, bathroom or any convenient place they come off my feet.
After reading the post, I realize that she wants is me to respect her ideas and actions in our day to day lives and for me to acknowledge the things she does for us. I am a big take it for granted type of guy as I work hard all day long and think others should do the same without recognition. I do not expect recognition for the work I perform, it is just life. Also I am the type of guy that only misses something when it’s not there.
Among other things, she consistently asks me to pick up my slippers and has made a spot for me to keep them. I guess not following her lead, ticks her off and this makes it hard for her to realize how much I love her. I don’t want to find out she is not there, due to my lack of understanding her feelings, as I would miss her dearly.
I am currently travelling on business and after reading the article, the first thing that I will do when I get home is put away my suitcase full of new slippers. I know where the area in our house labeled slippers is and plan to go there, I got this thing. Hey Matt, thanks for the eye opener, never been much of a internet communicator kind of guy, but I plan to pass this along.
Thanks dave.relax
I don’t see an author on this. It sounds like it was written by a woman feminist and it is completely fiction. I get the piece and in some sense I like it but it’s a fictional piece.
Fictional, my ass, Joseph.
It’s a blog post. If you are unaware of the fact that blog posts are written by the blogger who created the blog, well, there’s no hope for you.
But your belief that no man could have written it, well, again, there’s no hope for you. I do wish you well in your single future.
From a woman’s perspective, I think she left because he was a slob. It’s extremely frustrating when your spouse is messy and you’re not. It shows a lack of compatibility that can’t be fixed.
Thank you for your words, openness & ability to give us the words to help us all understand.
Ironically, neither my husband or I feel very strongly about keeping a super-tidy house in practice, but it’s definitely still hurting our marriage. My husband likes the IDEA of having a super-tidy house, but he’s not willing to put the work in to keeping it clean. We are in couples’ counseling and he brought up being stressed-out by having such a messy house, so I spent a full evening while he was away doing a huge toss-and-tidy of the main floor of our house. Not only did he only notice a small part of the work I did rather than the *entire freaking thing*, he immediately set to work wrecking the work that I did by leaving his mess all over as per usual, while I was making an effort to clean up as I went to maintain that tidy state for HIS mental health. (We both work full time so let’s head-off any of the usual assumptions for this kind of crappy behavior — I am NOT a homemaker or a maid and I made that clear from the start of the relationship.)
He also said he would vacuum up the carpets in the rest of the house, and never did it. When I asked him about it later, he said he was just going to hire a cleaner to do it for us, even though he has also been complaining lately that we aren’t saving enough money. This is compounded by the fact that he is constantly giving large sums to his relatives, who aren’t needy so much as they are putting on unearned airs about their lifestyles — his brother’s household earns twice our income and has a house three times as expensive, yet we are regularly “lending” him thousands of dollars without my consent, and my husband nor his brother are keeping track of the amounts. They are solidly upper-middle class but want to believe they are wealthy, and for some reason we pay the price. Last time we were over, brother was bragging about all the home renos he was going to do; while he initially was planning on putting in ~one~ patio, now he’ll be putting in ~two~, because putting the hot tub on his main patio would ruin the view. Meanwhile we’ve yet to fix up our own deck, which has actual structural issues, not to mention our aging septic.
On top of this, he is sexually and socially selfish; I haven’t had an orgasm from partnered sex in years despite being multiorgasmic by myself, and while I brought up social isolation as one of my #1 pain points during counseling, he turned down an invitation to a low-key party with many potential new friends in our new neighborhood because he was “kind of tired”.
The couples’ counseling was his idea but how is this supposed to work when he’s not willing to put in any work at all? I think he expected that the therapist would pin all our problems on me. Mostly she just seems to feel sorry for me and has suggested I get additional counseling on an individual basis for my obvious state of depression. Three guesses what the main contributor to my depression is, and the first two guesses don’t count.
Agree 100% with everything you’ve written. I am pretty sure this relationship is over, and while I’m not going to “throw the match” on couples’ counseling or saving the relationship if there’s a chance, there is definitely a part of me trying to figure out an exit plan.
I’ve been where you are, Lisa. I’m sorry to see you there. My recommendation: he will never, ever change. His words mean nothing, the road to hell is paved with good intention. I should have gotten divorced 5 years ago or more; it was finalized this past September and I am still trying to get him gone. I was the financial winner and he is trying to get me for $20k which I don’t have because I do have the kids. We’ve come a long way; my soul is exhausted and there is still mountains to climb. My narcissist is still looking for a free ride. I am learning, at long last, how powerful it is to say NO. And still, he persists. 🙁
Jenn BB33
First think what people assume is how other people fell. You hove no idea how other people feel.
So you are wrong. You haven’t been there, and you cannot say someone will not change.
You are not them. You are not with them. You don’t even know them.
Just think about it. Without negative emotions.
Wow. Thanks, guy. I daresay, you have no fucking clue.
Are you always so negative?
Probably only to people who are completely tone deaf.
Are you always such a condescending jerkface? Maybe you should work on that.
Hi there
If you don’t have a kids. Just move on.
However, before that last move, you can give him last wake up call.
Go to your friends place for a week or month.
If that doesn’t wake him up you know why to do.
I’m sorry this is the state of your relationship! It’s been a little more than two months since you posted – How are things now?
This post seems to miss the mark. The couple needed to agree on what is and isn’t tolerated, and actively work to meet each other’s needs. Some people simply aren’t compatible, but more often it’s just poor communication. Most of this post reads like a defensive justification under the guise of “seeing the light”. If you knew when you set the glass down near the sink you weren’t meeting your end of the deal, then you aren’t even trying. If it was instead an absent minded error, which is a more typical problem, the person who is being bothered needs to communicate. I can’t tell if these errors were contemptuous.
i.e. the dude is very verbosely admitting he was a passive aggressive shitty roommate. Something tells me the cup was a very minor problem in a sea of incompatibilities.
I am really tired of men using “poor communication” as an excuse. My husband uses it often, and it’s usually just an excuse. Most humans are capable of picking up on strong context clues and most information is not relayed 100% explicitly; if you actually respect and care about the other person’s opinion, you WILL pick up on these cues regardless of whether it’s a romantic, friendship, family, work or even acquaintanceship relationship, and pretending otherwise is just feigning ignorance about how humans actually communicate with each other. For example, I’m in couples counseling and the counselor said that I should walk the dog with my husband 3x a week (doesn’t matter why for the example). Usually, we both get up around 8am, and he walks the dog while I go to work. My husband said he would walk the dog every day at 7:30am so that I would be able to go with him before my work shift started. At 7am, I got up and got dressed; husband was awake but still in bed. At 7:15am I asked him if he was still planning on walking the dog at 7:30 and he said yes. At 7:45 I said, if we don’t walk the dog soon, I won’t be able to come with you before I have to go to work. And he said, but I didn’t know that you were intending to come with me; why didn’t you say anything? No way, Jose, I don’t buy this bullshit from men who say that their partners are poor communicators. Most of the time the men are simply not listening or being intentionally stupid.
Even if you explicitly tell this sort of man what you want and need, he will simply “forget”. Then it’s also your fault for not reminding him loudly and often enough, unless you do remind him loudly and often, in which case he’s naturally rebelling against you for being a nag. Fuck off with all that, honestly.
Lisa, it might be hard for you to be with a man. I don’t know you.
He might not be right for you. Or you might not be right for him.
As for guys, yes we do forget important dates, things, anniversary….
But we don’t forget why we are with you – girls, partners.
Assuming and cue and clues in communication doesn’t help at all.
Have you heard of Non violent communication ?
That might be a start for you.
😉
Stop passive-aggressively mansplaining other people’s problems to them. You admitted you don’t know anything about Lisa, but you still put forward the idea that she might have difficulty being with a man. You’re speaking when a spokesman for all men when you are literally incapable of speaking to anyone’s thoughts or motivations but your own, because you don’t know them…although you were quick to jump on a woman upthread for assuming to know how other people feel. How do you know what other men feel about their partners, friend? Oh, you don’t? You’re just here to defend your gender by regaling women who’ve had bad experiences with your bountiful “we’re not all like that” wisdom?
You’re being condescending and passive-aggressive to women, and I strongly suspect it’s because this article, and women’s legitimate grievances toward men, make you uncomfortable. I can only assume that because otherwise, you’d have no reason to be arguing. I can’t say WHY you’d be so upset by those subjects, or women being allowed to speak their minds. but the fact that you are does suggest some obvious possibilities. 🙂
You’re being argumentative and unhelpful. In case you missed the point of this article, dismissing, diminishing, or distracting from women’s feelings and concerns is a BAD thing to do. Please stop.
Amanda, not sure what are you talking about, and why are you trying to pick up a fight here? (No need to answer this, not going to argue 😉 )
I have a strange feeling that you probably didn’t understand my reply correctly and completely (or not at all). But that’s ok. No one is perfect.
My apologies to you, that I didn’t write my reply the way you would understand.
And the happy life goes on.
Amanda’s not trying to pick any fights. She’s explaining to you why your behavior is rude.
I have a strange feeling you are a troll. Beat it.
Wow, you are really something. And clearly hurt by someone and still angry about it. Lisa is 100% correct. I’ve never heard a woman pull the, you just communicate poorly card. I’ve heard it constantly from men. From the very men who have to have things repeated for them so they hear it. It’s just lazy. Oh…..wait……Lazy Father……Hmmmmm. And where did “non violent communication” come from?? And how do you not understand that most of communication is actually non-verbal? Read up a bit on it, you will clearly be surprised.
Really? Women from all accounts do that more than men. There are books about how men don’t communicate well. Lazy Father has the wrong tone and is not helping matters, but pretending women and men both don’t have communication problems is ridiculous. I’m the person who wants the dishes put away in OP scenario. And I’m a guy. My wife keeps on saying I’m just like her when it comes to mess. But I’m not – I’m just too tired at end of day to clean up everything – and then her corners of disaster as well. She should be able to clean that up, even after knowing it bugs the hell out of me. But she doesn’t. And now, though she’s undiagnosed, she’s blaming it on ADHD and that she “just doesn’t see things.” Well, then don’t get super pissed when I ask you to please clean up your dishes. (Again I know dishes in the OP is a stand in for anything but I’m going with the theme and it is but one example of her). But if she would stop pretending like I’m the exact same as her it might be easier. I get done what I can do every night. She cleans like twice a month and then holds it over me forever. “Why can’t you do that?” Excuse me, I do. All the time.
Bro, no offense, but maybe you should work on the obvious problem you have in your own relationship (if you even have one at this point) instead of taking it out on women who have legitimate complaints on the internet.
As a man, husband, and father, I will be the first to say that if your husband/boyfriend/fiance can’t communicate in actual words, can’t accomplish basic, routine tasks related to self/household maintenance (like brushing their teeth, showering more than once a month, washing the dishes, doing their own laundry, etc), help with the kids, or otherwise put his xbox controller down for five seconds to do something useful, you would be wise to kick him to the curb. It absolutely amazes me how many guys can’t be bothered to stick a toothbrush in their mouths more than twice a year. If I can smell your breath from across the room, I’m sure she can too. If I was her, and your breath smelled like rotting carcass 363 days a year, I’d divorce you too.
Also, there is nothing special about guys that makes us more prone to forgetting things. That’s called being selfish and inattentive. Grow up, man. You’re not a neanderthal. Do you speak the same language as your wife? Then use it. You obviously have a computer… can you not use google calendar or something to remind you of the important dates you can’t seem to remember? You can be the nicest guy in the world, but if you can’t handle adult responsibility, that’s your problem. Don’t try to make it sound like we’re all like that. I’m not, and none of my buddies are either. You’re not fooling anyone.
Guys like you are the reason we need mandatory military service. Go join the army or marines. They’ll cure you of your memory problem real quick. You’ll also learn to keep yourself/your space clean. Women could learn a thing or two from the disciplinary procedures of drill instructors who are faced with recruits who won’t clean up after themselves… flipping mattresses, pulling clothes out of the closets, icing the furniture/floor with any and all accessible liquid/powdered toiletry items, etc. That’s generally not the kind of thing you want to deal with twice.
And this is how the war starts…
From a simple miscommunication, or not able to understand the massage (verbal-nonverbal) people start picking on small things and missing out the larger picture. LIFE
It sorts off started with a Lisa’s Comment – November 5, 2018 at 5:06 AM, She evidently has some issues (problems) with her husband. If she has tried to sort them out multiple time (peacefully, logically…) then she should work on her “exit plan” as she mentioned.
Then JennBB33 joined in, with her recommendation to Lisa “I’ve been where you are, Lisa. I’m sorry to see you there. My recommendation: he will never, ever change.”
Which I have replied to her, “People assume is how other people fell. You hove no idea how other people feel.”
You don’t know how other people feels, you have not spent they in their shoes.
Why do you thing the marriage counselling requires 2 people, husband and wife? So the counsellor can hear and see both sides.
All what we have read here is only one side (and most of you are 100% convinced that you know all the truth)
Then Lisa had another comment November 5, 2018 at 5:16 AM “I am really tired of men using “poor communication” as an excuse.” and posts about their counsellors advice. If that’s true or not what she went thru that morning, that’s a sign, non verbal communication, call it whatever you like. He is not in the space. Hence my reply to her, “Lisa, it might be hard for you to be with a man. I don’t know you.
He might not be right for you. Or you might not be right for him.”
Out of nowhere Amanda Zakraysek joins in, full force “Stop passive-aggressively mansplaining other people’s problems to them. You admitted you don’t know anything about Lisa, but you still put forward the idea that she might have difficulty being with a man.”
I don’t know Lisa, I know (and rest of the world) know about her issues/problems with her husband. If you have read few other comments from Lisa, you would know about her intimate issues too (that she is socially and sexually neglected)
I’m not mansplaining others problems to them, these issues/problems are Lisa’s problems. Just gave her my males perspective and opinion. (although Lisa received responses from few hardcore feminists)
And we have Jason here, first Don’t call me bro.
You have jumped here and started pointing finger at me and talking about hygiene and common basics tasks. There is no need to telling me to brush my teeth, or have a shower 1-2 a day, or wash the dishes…
But it’s very good reminder for other males and females.
Back to the main point with Lisa, she is evidently having problems (or legitimate complaints as you say) with her husband. Who doesn’t do what every husband should automatically, responsibly, peacefully do. To take care of the family. Is that simple.
I didnt insult anyone, didnt mansplain ideas to others. Just gave her my opinion and suggestion to leave her husband, as she is having problems with him after numerous attempts to fix it.
Thank you, Jason. Thank you. As an exhausted, now single (because I kicked his lazy ass out) mom who still works 2 jobs to keep the ship afloat and am teaching the kids to get off their lazy asses and put the technology down to pull their own weight, I could not agree more. The magic clean up, laundry, grocery, garbage, and all other fairies that most grown men seem to think comes at night while their beautiful woman is giving them fantasy sex is just that – FANTASY. Lives right up there with Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the damn Easter Bunny,
Man up means: MAN UP AND PULL YOUR OWN WEIGHT, Guys. I’d love to ice the house with something and leave it for the kids. My ex? He’d have left it for days and walked around it, then bitched about it being there. That’s why he’s now living with his mother. At age 50. Boom.
Thank you, Jason.
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In the book of Matthew the only acceptable reason for divorce is in the service to the lord. Not over a dirty dish. This article is liberal bullshit. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was written by a feminist with a male pen name. Grow up. Yes put your dishes in the dishwasher. But to write a whole blog over your poor marriage is ridiculous. Get a life. Do your own shit and be responsible for it. Sorry your marriage failed over you ex wife’s selfishness. This is total liberal snowflake bullshit
I think you need to reread whole thing, Youre missing something…. idiot.
I’d like you to consider the possibility that you’re missing the point, Michael.
I’d also like to offer the suggestion that there is nothing political happening here. It’s a true story.
And the underlying message about what it means to actually love your spouse is the difference between healthy, lasting relationships (of all kinds—not just marriage) and the kind that make people miserable and/or fail.
I’m sorry you dislike it so much and think I wasted my time writing for the past five years to shed light on a subject not enough people are discussing nor living out effectively.
Just maybe, if you eliminate sexism and politics from clouding the conversation, and home in on the idea that one person can experience pain from an incident while another person is unfazed and/or oblivious of that pain, you might discover why approximately half of several thousand marriages, and an even larger number of unwed couples, or friends, or families, and even professional relationships are breaking every day—which for the people in those moments—is the No. 1 thing affecting their life experience. It’s the thing determining whether every day, in simple terms, is good or bad.
That’s not a trivial thing. Life ceases to be a desirable activity when you get to about two or three years straight of EVERYDAY being painful and miserable.
Color me presumptuous, Michael, but it seems like—just maybe—you struggle with finding common ground with anyone you disagree with. That you are right, therefore they are wrong, and by God, they can all eat shit and die for being so stupid and incorrect.
One wonders whether, while you’re always being right and letting everyone around you know it, bad things are happening within the hearts and minds of the people around you who are trusting you to love/protect/respect them.
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh. That couldn’t be it.
I’m sure you’re right that it’s all a bunch of liberal snowflake bullshit. Carry on.
this begs the question: why don’t you get a life and stop reading things that are a waste of your time. it’s humorous that you find the fact that someone devoted time to writing this blog is stupid, yet you took the time to read it! typical conservative hypocrisy. your anger is out of proportion to reading a single article and disagreeing with the viewpoint. maybe women have left your stupid, bible misquoting, self righteous ass and you are bitter because clearly you have trouble comprehending human emotions.
Keep your rosary off my ovaries. And out of the relationship. God has nothing to do with this.
I should leave well enough alone here, Jenn, but I just wanted to add this because I’m insufferably defensive:
As a kid who grew up in a tiny conservative town in Ohio attending Catholic school and Catholic mass, the significant majority of every politically conservative church-goer I’ve ever interacted with has been positive.
They have been fundamentally kind and decent people who don’t spend one minute quoting the bible and preaching about Christian living only to turn around and be fucking shitbags and the polar-opposite of what Christians are taught to be when there are no ulterior motives besides teaching children values and how to love and treat other people.
Please don’t let the super-loud assholes on TV, and the people foolish and ignorant enough to spew hate online poison the entire well.
Just as painting all of Islam as a group of people who want to harm others is wrong…
Or being racist, bigoted, sexist dickbags is wrong…
I think it’s a mistake to think or assume or say things that indicate that people who practice a certain faith, or align politically with an opposing ideology, that they are automatically evil or bad, simply because there’s evidence of a loud minority of those groups ruining it for everyone else.
Feed the hungry. Clothe the naked. Be good to those who hurt you. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. LOVE people. Be humble. Forgive. Be an instrument of peace. Light up the darkness.
These are the fundamental tenets taught by a guy who lived 2,000 years ago. Supernaturally divine or not, it’s hard to find much to argue with among those teachings.
I fall short every day of living up to those principles, but they seem to be worthy things to strive for.
When people like Michael take their social/cultural/political bullshit and use it to poison what should be a 100% non-divisive thing, I get pretty worked up.
Michael’s comment represents the worst of the group of people who claim to be Christian while never actually behaving as one.
I hope people can see and appreciate the difference. Because the difference is everything.
I can see the difference. I am not a christian, nor do I subscribe to any organized religion. But I believe in the kindness that the Christ prescribed. I do not believe the majority of people who call themselves Christians would feed the poor, or house the homeless. They are, overall, greedy bastards that you see on tv, judging the poor, the unfortunate. They do not do unto others. They do not follow the golden rule. I do.
So I apologize for generalizing. And any time someone starts by quoting scripture, I’m going to react by saying GET OFF MY DOORSTEP I AM NOT INTERESTED.
Thanks, Matt. Peace.
I agree that Michael exposed himself right from the get-go. I 100% agree with you.
I’m not advocating for organized religion (I am in a highly uncomfortable state of ambivalence about what I should or shouldn’t do, and what I should or shouldn’t teach my son), nor am I advocating for right-leaning political views.
Neither Right nor Left = Good or Evil for me. There are bad seeds on all sides perverting and misrepresenting the core principles which are, in theory, ideas designed to improve the quality of life for a citizenry.
I didn’t mean to sidetrack us or detract from the actual conversation.
I probably should have just said “I hate it when assholes wear their identity labels, act like assholes, and thereby cause others to believe that everyone who wears that same identity label is also an asshole.”
THAT phenomenon causes countless problems and horrors in our world. And the people I blame the most are all of the people who do despicable things in the name of their particular faith’s “God”, which virtually guarantees that every smart, decent human will begin to question ANYTHING done in the name of that same faith’s “God.”
What’s worse than blatant hypocrisy?
Almost nothing. (Right, Michael?)
Appreciate you, Jenn. I hope my unnecessary response to your earlier comment didn’t annoy you too much.
Not at all. Thanks…. As far as organized religion and kids go, let them be curious, and foster that curiosity. EDUCATE THEM and teach them to see that religion comes from Bardic tale, written down, and edited by man. It is the word of man, interpreted and continually edited and twisted to suit their own needs and desires and greed. Teach them the golden rule: to treat others the way they would like to be treated. We are aligned, methinks.
Me too. 🙂
Wanted to make sure I wasn’t coming off like I thought you were out of line. I didn’t. I just wanted to soapbox about people being dicks.
I don’t have any choice but to foster curiosity and tell the most truth I know how to my son.
You don’t need to be a psychology expert to know how internally uncomfortable and challenging it is to not simply parrot all of the things I was taught as a child and accepted on blind faith for many years.
There are elements to my upbringing I perceive as extremely positive, and then there are elements I believe accidentally put me at a disadvantage or outright damaged me.
No one’s fault. Life just happens and everyone’s mostly trying their best. Except for the religious hypocrites. They are decidedly not trying their best, which is why they can go ahead and eat a fat one.
(Note to the young and impressionable: Using the term “eat a fat one” in a derogatory way as I just did falls outside of the behaviors I perceive to be “Good.” I just like using juvenile language to communicate my disdain for certain things, even though I know it’s probably “Bad.” I don’t always do what I’m supposed to or what I should.)
Matt, you may want to consider that your experience with tiny conservative towns and the Catholic Church, as a heterosexual man, might be quite different from someone who isn’t heterosexual or a man. I was raised very seriously Christian and I’m quite familiar with Biblical doctrine, and while Jesus himself was mostly a decent dude, he was also quite clear that his appearance on Earth did not wipe out the teachings of the Old Testament (which are quite brutal in places), and even aside from that, there is plenty of homophobia and sexism to be found in the New Testament. I believe it was Saint Peter who said that women should remain in silence and never attempt to teach or exercise authority over a man.
Have you ever actually read the Bible? Lol
In high school. As literature. Fascinating. Horrific. Have you?
Dear Michael,
I respectfully invite you to go a little deeper
here .
Partners never divorce because of a glass in the sink. Partners divorce because,”You’re not hearing me, you don’t listen to me, you don’t have my back, it is lonely living with you, it feels like I have another child instead of a loving supportive partner, my needs don’t matter to you etc etc…” All those critical attachment emotions being stomped on over and over are excellant reasons to consider divorce. Just like the author here beautifully says.
You might also consider reading Hold Me Tight, by Sue Johnson PhD for her 30 years of research on this very topic. It is an easy and wonderfully researched read! Warmly, margaret
More than two years after you wrote it, I just liked your post and am about to order the book. You will probably never get to see this, but hey, it’s never too late to say thank you – I still say it to someone who died years ago.
You’re missing a serious piece of reality. No one needs to be preached at in this situation. Take a step off your high horse and be human.
You are so exactly the kind of guy who needs to be reading this kind of article – and of course, you got nothing out of it.
This is not a very Christian-like response. Maybe consult your priest or pastor. They may have insight on how to be a more caring and empathetic individual.
There’s that Christian love they tell us so much about….
I know how thw wife felt. I straight up told my family that I needed help keeping the house clean. The support I got from my ex husband was him telling the kids to help me out more. I married I thought a life partner. When he wasn’t working he was also doing nothing to help out in the house. He was also not listening to my reaponses. He’d ask a simple question like what was for supper and I’d answer him and 5 or 10 minutes later he would ask the same question. So I stopped communicating because I felt that it was a useless thing to do because I wasn’t listened to. Now that we’ve been separated and he quit drinking he appreciates more what I did and sacrificed for the family. I burned myself out. Another example was he’d ask me to sit down and watch tv with him and I’d refuse and tell him I was too busy cleaning after him and the kids or I had to do dishes or I was just plain tired. I could’ve fought harder for my marriage but I was too tired to do so.
Ok let’s start over. To be fair I am bipolar and was in an episode last night. Hence my whacked out comment. So hears the thing…
I understand the underlying issue. Your wife needed to feel validated and feel like she was being put first. Did she ever put you first? Honest question. My marriage ended in November. We are now dating again. We both learned that we both have needs. My ex wife said she learned something from this article. We went through 16 years of marriage that was hell. We both cheated on one and other. Neither of us understood that if we both and always put each other first, we would never have a need. She also had trouble dealing with my illness. Through scores of doctors and poor medical treatment. But here is the thing. My wife never validated my needs for intimacy. So for her to expect me to do the dishes and yard work and then just roll over in bed wasn’t fair either. Neither of us were validating each other. But to the author, did you have children old enough to do chores? Because my ex wife puts dishes in the sink and then expects my son to rinse them and put them in the dishwasher. Where is his validation? Or is it fair for him to do chores? Thank goodness my ex wife and I are dating again and relearning what it’s like to be boyfriend and girlfriend. Things are getting better. She realizes I have an illness and that I have needs too. The other night I took her a pint of ice cream just to be nice. Her and my daughter enjoyed it. I plan on learning her needs the bed I can. But I have needs that need validated as well. It goes both ways. So now that I have reread your article and have made a reasonable post, I welcome reasonable replies.
Now that, right there, is a post from an individual who gets it (if it was your meds, I understand. Am also medicated for my mental illness). That is what it’s all about. VALIDATION. Here is my situation: I got married. Immediately all of the planning falls on me (not a problem; I like to plan). But there is never a thank you, never a “wow, my mom will love that for a holiday/birthday gift, thanks for being so thoughtful” acknowledgement.
Two months into the marriage, his dad is killed in a car accident. So we go from celebratory to mourning, immediately. He stuffs his feelings and doesn’t mourn (so, we’ve been eeking out the mourning for years….).
Three years into the marriage, he loses his job. Takes over the in-house company that I started. So I am working outside of the home full time. Every night I get home and there’s the question: “What’s for dinner” and there is laundry, housecleaning, etc waiting for me.
Seven years into that, the economy tanks, he loses our 2 largest clients, we have another baby (#2) and his drinking kicks into high gear. I’m still working outside the home. Kids are in daycare. I still come home to have to make dinner, and do the normal Second Shift things that women have continued to shoulder since we got the right to work outside of the home and have a family. Lucky me.
This goes on for EIGHT years. There is never validation, except by my growing kids, that I am working two jobs to keep our family fed, clothed and sheltered. When I’m home, I’m cleaning. Cooking has pretty much gone by the wayside, unless it’s something I’m craving. When he does something, he wants praise, thanks, and if I don’t notice, there is pouting and sometimes a fight. He sometimes would work on weekends “when he felt like it.” He got a part time job, because there is nothing in his industry. And he refuses to go for training to do something else.
I finally filed for divorce in February of this year. I have realized that I’m raising three kids, and I need to focus on the two that I actually gave birth to. Now I’m waiting for him to find his own place. He’s forgotten how to be an adult, at age 49. Get me out of this relationship. NOW.
Michael, perhaps your wife would have “validated your need for intimacy” if she wasn’t exhausted from doing everything you wouldn’t do. To expect her to teach, discipline, and monitor the children, cook, clean, do laundry, grocery shop, do the banking, bathe the kids, put them to bed, make their lunches for the next day, and then come to bed ready for a romp so you can sleep better is going to get you divorced again. Or perhaps you just feel like sex-on-demand is the price women pay for getting their husbands to care for their own children, houses, and yards (which they will still have to do once they are single men again)?
Yep. “Validate my need for intimacy” = “acquiesce to my entitlement to sex”.
Not only does he want a house slave, he wants her to be a breathing fleshlight too, and be happy about it. He will only do the slightest thing for her if she burns herself out doing everything for him.
I wish it was as easy as putting my husband first in order to have him put me first too. So far it seems to be a lot of a sucker’s game. He complained that all his clothes were dirty so I washed and dried them while working @ home, and he complained that I forgot to close the washer door (it’s a top-loader) because he thought the cats would jump in and poop in it (????). I never got a thank-you. Believing that people give what they get is called the just-world fallacy and it has never worked out for me so far, only gotten me taken advantage of in both personal and professional relationships.
As for what you say about yard work and intimacy, it is honestly a bit gross to me. You are doing yard work and dishes, your wife does presumably much of the rest of the work since you didn’t mention it, and then you are entitled to sex even if she doesn’t want it? I do all of the yard work in my 0.75 acre property and to be honest, it’s a lot easier than the inside-of-the-house work unless you run an actual farm or at least keep poultry. So if the only thing you are doing inside the house is dishes, then to be very generous to you, the chores are at best being split evenly. You, as an adult, are responsible for contributing to the maintenance of the household, so why does she now owe you sex? My husband’s idea that I owed him regular sex was probably the #1 death-knell for our sex life since it took sex (from my perspective) from a fun thing we enjoyed together to just another chore I was expected to perform for him. The fact that you have kids but you still need to learn her “needs of the bed” is very sad to me. She learned yours much earlier on almost certainly. Contributing your fair share to the household doesn’t earn you sex, it just prevents you from being disqualified on that basis. Women still want to have physical nonsexual intimacy (cuddling without boner-pokes and groping) and enjoyable-for-them sexual intimacy. Not doing chores may disqualify you from sex, since being a dysfunctional adult is really unattractive, but meeting the bare minimum of adulthood doesn’t then entitle you to someone else’s body. There are men who think having a car (in an area w/no public transit) and being employed for once in their lives are huge achievements too, but these things don’t make them entitled to sex either. These are basic things that everyone is supposed to be doing, man or woman (counting SAHM/SAHD as jobs if they are agreed on).
The idea that chores = sex is also pretty gross since you then bring up your son doing the same chores that you think earn you sex. Not to put too fine a point on it, but what are you thinking he’s owed here? I’m pretty sure it’s not sex since that would be disgusting, but it does reveal a certain cognitive dissonance.
It’s a pity that I have come to this so late because you will probably never see this, but the main paragraph of your post is troubling me. I want to emphasize that I agree unreservedly with everything you have said, but for me it raises an important issue.
You say “My husband’s idea that I owed him regular sex was probably the #1 death-knell for our sex life since it took sex (from my perspective) from a fun thing we enjoyed together to just another chore I was expected to perform for him.” I totally get this. I completely agree with it. This problem isn’t restricted to sex. I started to feel the same way about Christmas. It started out as fun because when they were very young I enjoyed giving presents to the kids and seeing their surprise and delight, but at some point it came to feel like something that I was expected to do and for me that killed much of the pleasure.
So the question your comment raises for me, is that in general – and that is an important qualification – both parties in a long-term relationship expect some sexual activity. Most of us know that if we were to permanently withhold all sexual activity from our partner then at best there would have to be some soul-searching conversations and at worst our partner will engage in sexual activity with someone else and may even leave us. In that sense (and I do want to emphasize those words) we all understand that we “owe” our partner sex. So how do we prevent that knowledge, which lurks at the back of all our minds, from spoiling what should be a joyous part of the relationship? How do we stop that knowledge taking sex from being a fun thing we enjoy together to being just another chore we are expected to perform? How do we keep it separate from housework and other chores? How do we get to where giving each other the fun and pleasure that comes from sex takes priority over, and stays separate from, all the other stuff?
I recognise that in a way this is a side-issue, and (I repeat) I am not challenging your original comment in any way.
“Most of us know that if we were to permanently withhold all sexual activity from our partner then at best there would have to be some soul-searching conversations and at worst our partner will engage in sexual activity with someone else and may even leave us. In that sense (and I do want to emphasize those words) we all understand that we “owe” our partner sex.”
Yes, I agree with that. I do couple counselling, and I hear a lot from women about how much they dislike the feeling that their partner feels “entitled” or “owed” sex. The man, on the other hand, is often puzzled and says, “isn’t that part of the agreement that both of us voluntarily and willingly entered into? Are we not obligated in any way by our agreement?”
It’s worth exploring the nature of the agreement carefully. David Schnarch, a well known sex therapist who died recently, pointed out that there’s going to be trouble if one of the partners expects both that their partner will be sexually faithful to them and have no other partners, and *at the same time*, that that same partner mustn’t feel in any way “entitled” to sex. That’s trying to have it both ways.
And, I believe, no man, or very few men, want their partner to have unwilling sex with them just out of obligation. Men, and women, want to be wanted. If a partner is distressed because they are no longer wanted (and that happens equally to men and women) it’s a bit of a slander on them to say it’s because they feel “entitled”. Equally, nobody loses their sexual desire “on purpose”.
Mike, thanks for replying.
I might be mistaken, but it seems to me that you have – unwittingly I’m sure – added a gender bias, whereas I don’t think there is one. There was a time when I had to work crazy hours seven days a week, and to be honest I was so exhausted that sleep was a lot more attractive than sex. But I understood that I was in a partnership, and although I was (almost literally) working myself to death (as in work, shower, eat, sleep, nothing else, repeat) to keep my job and put food on the table for her and the kids, I understood that I just had to find the energy to make her feel desired and fulfilled. I’m sure it wasn’t as often as she would have liked, but I understood that it needed to happen. But – and this is the important part – I didn’t ever get to the point where I saw it as fulfilling an obligation. I did it because I knew that it was important to her and I wanted her to be happy. Of course, once we got started I enjoyed it as much as she did, so I was happy too. And that’s the thing about sex in a relationship that sets it apart from chores: it brings happiness to both partners and reinforces the relationship.
I don’t know how to explain the difference, how I knew that I needed to give her this and yet it didn’t feel like fulfilling an obligation, but this is the point I was making in my reply to Lisa. Somehow we need to prevent that knowledge of sexual expectation within a partnership from spoiling what should be a joyous part of the relationship and turning it into just another chore we are expected to perform. It just happened for me. Perhaps it was just because of how she affects me. But Lisa’s original post suggests (to me at least) that not everyone can easily keep sex separate from housework and other chores, and I wondered if there is an answer to this. It seems an important point to me, for both halves of the partnership.
Thanks. Yes, I think I understand what you’re saying, and agree with it.
I do see a gender difference. In the couples I work with, it is more likely to be the woman that complains that her partner feels “entitled”. I don’t know why this is, although I could speculate several reasons.
Well, while I may agree with your point.. its also quite common for a wife to become obessively anal and controlling. Thats a case of misdirected internal strife, expecting others to be perfect. Some people will always see and sometimes only see others as a list of faults rather than a flawed human being such as theirselves. If a dish on the counter is a deal breaker, that means your dealing with someone who is not well equipped to deal with life.
So… divorce your wife because you didn’t enforce your anti-anal-retentive boundary prior to proposing to her?
Sorry Kyle. You may be right on a case-by-case basis here, but are you suggesting that all husbands who agree with you file divorce papers and subject their children to broken homes on account of that psychological diagnosis about their wives?
Lol, i didnt say divorice. How many cases was some bull crap thing was an out for the wife? And SHE was the one filing?
The fact of the matter is, its common, for the wife to desire to change and control her man. Some things are important, others are not. Some spend their entire lives feeling that the red carpet needs to be rolled out for them, but are the last to lend a hand for anything. Case by case, of course but its common. Everyone reading probably knows a couple like this.. wife always giving him crap etc.
Also, how often have you seen a wife that acts like she thinks her husband is an idiot..and he acts like he is stressed out by her very presence? Thats a sign, plenty of female bullies out there in sheeps clothing. Hint….they are always the victim.
there are always different examples that do not fit with matt’s experience. all women are not always right, and all men are not always wrong. if you can benefit from him experience, as many of us can, take what he has to offer. if it doesn’t fit with your experience, that’s ok too.
Now THIS I agree with.
However, it’s also not what we’re talking about. Bullies and assholes of any gender — people who are INTENTIONALLY harming their spouse — do not get to be part of this conversation. They’re the worst and beyond any help these kinds of conversations can provide.
What we’re talking about here are pains being caused by spouses who didn’t know better. This is what destroys and ends MOST marriages that end. This isn’t about blaming anyone.
It’s about the people who this applies to potentially asking themselves: “Is it possible that I really am hurting my partner without realizing it, and that a few simple changes could make the pain stop? I guess it totally makes sense that my spouse would be unhappy if they’re feeling hurt every day by something I do, and every time they ask for help, I tell them they’re wrong or crazy or the real problem. I guess it totally makes sense that someone would feel betrayed by that behavior and after several years of enduring it, seek a better life. I sure hope I have the opportunity to prove to the person I promised to love forever that they are worth the effort to NOT hurt them every day now that I realize what I’m doing is hurting them.”
The more people who have that experience, the better. I don’t feel sorry for assholes who get divorced.
I feel sorry for all of the well-intentioned people who didn’t know better and lose their lives and families and friends and time with their children all because of a nuanced misunderstanding.
THEY are who this is for.
May I ask if you believe that it’s only women who become controlling? Having been married, long ago, to a man who once got angry when I agreed with the POV of a newscaster instead of him, I would say that particular trait is gender neutral.
It can go both ways, of course. I just happen to have known a hell of a lot more women that were like that.
We all need to be aware of our own faults, and be able to forgive others of their shortcomings to have any kind of a healthy relationship imo.
True that. I have several. And have since developed a personal policy to clean up my own messes before I start pointing fingers at others’.
I wasn’t trying to be a dick with my replies. I appreciate you taking a minute to comment. Your opinions are not unusual. And they might not even be wrong.
BUT. They’re not the same conversation, and I want people to be clear about that.
Once you introduce INTENTIONAL assholery to the equation, all bets are off.
The conversation that needs to be had is how to keep all of the people trying their best from ACCIDENTALLY making correctable mistakes that can prevent the worst thing that will ever happen to them or their children.
Matt, I found this post because I literally looked up “my boyfriend left me dishes to clean up” out of frustration. Several times before, I have looked up issues that similarly bothered me. Each time, Google directed me to your blog. So I have read many of your entries at different times, and I have found your words to be hugely validating and a source of deep comfort. Thank you for taking the time and effort to put your thoughts out there for the world to see. I would never have the courage to do so – it’s too scary to make myself vulnerable to strangers and trolls. So thank you also for your bravery.
Question: how *do* I approach a male significant other about an issue like this in a constructive way? I have a tendency to approach topics directly – like “I can’t believe you did this, how unthoughtful” I am now with someone with whom I’d like to engage in a positive way – I really want this relationship to work out. I know the “when you do x I feel like y” approach. But when is a good time? Nip it in the bud on the first or second occasion? Wait for a bunch of incidences so I have evidence of a consistent trend? When is it “significant enough” (ie “not too petty” for me to bring up? (You are absolutely right, it’s the feeling of being completely taken for granted and disrespected that is so hurtful to me)
Many thanks and please keep clicking that keyboard. You are doing a huge service to the world.
I’m going to disclaim this by saying that my own relationship is a mess… but my husband-chosen couples therapist seems to think I’m the better communicator so maybe this advice is useful anyway.
My first step would be a casual, non-incriminating-voice heads-up in passing. “Hey, can you remember to XYZ when you 123?” This would be something I would say when I am NOT angry about it and when I’m generally puttering around the house and he’s not so engrossed in something else that he’d be made angry with an interruption. You can repeat this once or twice (spread out over a few weeks/months) if the behavior is not too excessive.
If it gets to a stage where you think it’s provably moderate or worse, and not being taken seriously, I would suggest a sit-down to talk about the XYZ: “Hey, after dinner today, I would like to talk about XYZ”. I think the typical advice is to try and frame things around yourself rather than the other person. You can think, “I can’t believe you did this, how unthoughtful”, but maybe you want to say, “when you do XYZ, I feel like you’re not thinking of me and it makes me feel ABC”.
Again, I’m in therapy so I’m not 100% sure if this advice leans towards too spineless, too aggressive, or just generally dysfunctional but I would suspect it’s on the soft side if anything.
Lisa, just wanted to thank you for taking the time and energy to respond so thoroughly to my post. I have since broken up with this individual, but it’s an issue I face in any relationship (in fact, the newest beau and I will likely be having this conversation later on this evening or tomorrow). I see that you were quite active on this site earlier today – I send you much good energy as you continue along your journey. Eileen
What? A simple solution is for the wife to tell the husband that she’ll charge him $100 every time she sees a dish but the sink. Write it up, get husband to sign it and then we’ll see how many more times a glass gets left by the sink.
Geezus…we need to fix real problems in the world(hunger, war, pollution) and people are getting hung up on these simple problems. Step up yo game peeps!
I submit that writing off the seemingly inconsequential is ACTUALLY what causes most of the world’s problems.
Things that are trivial to you can seem monumentally important to someone else.
The lack of respect for that fact is why more than half of all committed relationships fail, why friendships end, why countries go to war, and why pretty much all human conflict of any kind begins.
That said, your pragmatic solution to the dish situation is excellent and sounds effective to me.
Maybe people will try it.
I’m pretty sure human cohabitation patterns are a real issue, unless you want the human race to go extinct, and I’m all for VHEMT but I would hope if we went that way, we could at least have some non-dysfunctional company as we went down. 🙂
If we can’t build a society where most people can be happy in their own homes then what is the point of this whole exercise of humanity, exactly? The author already explained that dishes in the sink are not really about dishes in the sink. If both partners are fine with dishes in the sink then it’s fine to leave dishes in the sink. The problem is a lot more primal and essential than this. Our current culture is one of monogamy, and traditionally/ideally lifelong monogamy. Some people have been able to make it work happily, others have made it “work” unhappily, and a lot more have just gotten divorced and moved onto other partners. This is not a small issue at all; it’s probably one of the biggest issues in the developed world. If anything I’d suggest that YOU need to step up your game, because I don’t think you’re looking at the big picture. We either have to find ways to make this work, or we need to change the culture.
I’ve googled “ my husband is lazy” in many forms. From “why doesn’t my husband care” to “is it normal for my husband to never do any ‘chores’” even “if we both work then why am I always doing everything and he’s allowed to be lazy”
I noticed a pattern. I’m finding reasons to stay with him. A reason or excuse when there is NO excuse for me to work just as hard as him at a paying job to come home to HIS mess. I leave the house clean come back to chaos. I am the one who cares for our kids. Yes he loves hem showers then with kisses but he’s NOT HELPING ME AT ALL!!!
so long story short.
THIS. THIS is the link I’m sending him. If he can see a male point of view. If he can see when I say I’m leaving over a dirty dish I probably will. Because I’m running out of excuses. I’m running out of time and patience. Because if he can’t care for what I do… then he doesn’t care for me.
(Ps. Been together 18 years. Kids are 4 and 3… and my husband has NEVER cleaned a flippin dish since the kids were born. Children DIDNT CHANGE HIS PRIORITES Actually I don’t remember him doing them before either… and never ever swept the floor or done laundry… because. I LET HIM HAVE EXCUSES!!!! *end rant)
I hear you. Same boat. Scared to leave. But why? He’s seen this post. Said it was an eye opener. Nothing changed.
I don’t know if you’re still checking in on this, but here’s an idea. Tell your husband that you have been discussing this with a really nice guy at work who you noticed is really organized and tidy, and that from now on you will be joining your family for family activities and dinner – you expect your husband to call you when it’s ready – but you will be staying at your colleague’s clean and tidy apartment until your home starts to look like the sort of place you want to come home to. Emphasize that your relationship with your colleague is purely platonic.
If he’s a nice guy, this should trigger the conversation and changes you need. If he isn’t a nice guy, he may reach for his gun.
It kind of irritates me that you reasoned all the things you have to do in the house FOR YOURSELF as housechores as that you need to be caring for her. Do you still think the same after 2 years of writing this piece?
I’m a stay-at-home moms point of view, you have hit it completely on the nail. I don’t know how many times I tell my husband to do something, and he just doesn’t do it. I realize that I probably need to work on my own things, because you cannot just shift the blame to one person, but honestly if he understood what that glass stood for, then I think things would be so much different. I think in my head, from a woman’s point of view, that he does understand how much he hurts me when he does it. Which, must not be the case?
If he loves you (and I can’t know it, but I always default to the position that no one other than con artists who are already planning their escape before the wedding day ever marry without truly loving their spouse the best way they know how), then I don’t believe he has ANY idea how much it hurts you.
I would encourage you to, just once, assume that he has no idea, like the first time your child did something she or he couldn’t have possibly known was the wrong thing.
And then, with all of the kindness, patience and empathy you can manufacture (because this has been hurting you for YEARS), you must attempt something that’s VERY, very, very, very, very hard to communicate effectively.
And that is that you are HURT very badly, and feel actual pain — the kind that is unhealthy and unsustainable — whenever these incidents happen.
I don’t believe he knows it hurts, because he’s never felt pain from something like a dish or perhaps some other housework-related situation before.
And because that seems like such a foreign concept to him, he’s never stopped to consider the possibility that this “harmless,” “painless” thing DOES legitimately hurt you.
You’re not whining about it just to whine. You’re not feigning weakness for dramatic effect.
It HURTS. Legit.
And when things hurt, we should be able to trust those we love the most to help us not hurt, and certainly to make a mindful effort to not cause the pain.
There’s a good chance he’ll be defensive and/or continue to act as if what you’re saying is unimportant. THAT is the dangerous part, because if you’re loving and patient and vulnerable about this after all this time, and it’s met with scorn or contempt, it just might push you over the edge. I can understand that.
The irony is, it’s when you go over the edge that many men reportedly demonstrate the: “Holy shit. She was totally serious about that” realization, and then promise all of these changes their wives or girlfriends can no longer legitimately trust them to make or follow through on.
He doesn’t know it hurts. And he currently trusts his judgment more than he trusts yours.
It’s not a pleasant truth, but it IS true.
So, one of two things needs to happen (or hopefully both).
1. He must be convinced that things he is doing accidentally and unknowingly are causing you severe pain. Maybe he’s experienced a great personal loss. Maybe he gets really upset after his favorite team loses, and people who root for other teams, or just don’t care, are unfazed.
There must be an example in his life of him giving a shit about something and/or hurting because of something that didn’t affect others — possibly you, even.
Maybe he really cares about something, and you think it’s stupid or silly.
It’s okay to have differences.
It’s not okay to negligently damage your partner even after REPEATED requests to stop.
The favor I’m asking on his behalf is that you go into that conversation on blind faith that he has NO IDEA that you’ve felt legitimate pain because of his choices, and that if he truly–TRULY–understood what that experience was like for you, that he would make it a huge priority to do and be more, because he would never intentionally do something to hurt you or your family.
I think, if you approach him as a good man who simply doesn’t know better (even if it takes a boat-load of pride swallowing to get there), you’ll have as positive of results as is possible in these situations.
Thank you for reading and taking a minute to comment. Wishing you well.
Thanks so much for this article. Your last comment really resonated with me. I actually have completely lost it, and it was in relation to being sleep deprived and not having any help to get rest while after birth. I lost my sh*t twice. It even scared ME. I went to the doctor and a therapist, thinking something was wrong with me. To my surprise, they thought my husband needed a good talking to, and my doctor requested to speak to him about letting me sleep and helping out more. Anyway, all the things you mention happen all the time in our home, and I continually tell him how much it hurts me, how disrespected I feel, how unappreciated I feel… I’ve tried to convey the message in so many different ways…crying, pleading, writing emails, strategizing solutions with him. I’ve even straight up asked him what the best method to fix this problem would be and to please please help me figure it out. I am at my wits’ end. And reading your last comment makes me think that he really must know that it hurts me at this point, and so he falls more into the “assholery” category. I sent him this article, he just said, “weird”. He just continuously says I’m too critical of him if I dare say anything about wanting help or wanting him to pick up after himself, even though I shower him with compliments when he does good things with the house or family. I am tired of feeling like a mother. I’m tired of dragging myself out of bed after being up nursing all night while he lays like a log in bed and I get two kids ready in the morning. I have been at the brink so many times. A week ago I had enough and I said I was ready to divorce. And he promised to change, but it’s just a few days of change, and then it’s gone. A cycle that repeats itself over and over again. It’s lonely to be in this situation. I’d rather raise my kids alone than feel this constant rejection from someone who can’t be bothered to care about me. I am rambling now but just wanted to say thank you for the perspective. I’m not quite sure what I’m doing with it but I have pretty much decided that I can’t continue this way. Even beyond the sleep deprivation and feeling mentally exhausted because I’m in charge of everything, it’s just too freaking hurtful to live every day like this, feeling like I don’t have a partner.
Amen sister. The logistics won’t necessarily improve with your getting a divorce, and the divorce process itself will absolutely suck, but to free yourself of the utter loneliness – the isolation, aloneness and sadness that comes from standing next to a fake “partner” – getting rid of *that* will priceless. Empower yourself and stay the course – you *will* be terrified of whether you’re doing the right thing or not throughout the entire journey. But don’t let that terror derail you. Trust me, on the other end it will be worth it. You will feel as light as a feather. Best wishes.
You’re not rambling, Samantha.
You’re experiencing and articulating effectively the most-common divorce story there is.
You’re NOT weird or broken or wrong. You’ve been extended beyond your limits and are now living a day-to-day life that you never imagined or thought possible. It’s because we just don’t know what we don’t know.
Please don’t feel alone in the context of your emotions and headspace. Because it’s NORMAL to freak out when everything around you is unsustainable and totally screwed.
I want to be clear that I am not advocating divorce nor blaming your husband for the state of things. Because I’ll go to my grave believing that we — collectively; societally — are failing young men by not giving them the knowlege and training necessary to succeed as husbands and fathers in modern society.
He ALSO doesn’t know what he doesn’t know and now he’s learning the hard way, and it will only get worse.
The man loves you and doesn’t want you to leave. If you’re experiencing responsiveness in short cycles, then I think two things are probably present:
1. Undiagnosed adult ADHD is a strong possibility and worth looking into.
https://www.additudemag.com/category/understand-conditions/adhd-in-adults/diagnosis-add/
2. You’re lightening up and “acting” like your old self again after a few days, so he thinks whatever was “wrong” with you isn’t wrong anymore and he relaxes. He thinks it’s a temporary problem requiring temporary solutions.
Again, he just doesn’t see the invisible pains he causes, and until he learns how, the situation will continue to be unsustainable.
You’re very perceptive, Matt. We have both wondered aloud of the possibility of ADD for him. He definitely lacks a lot of focus/concentration, doesn’t follow through or finish projects, and seems to forget so many things that I sometimes suspect he’s playing a game or pretending. He has excuses for everything. But he does very excellent at work! Which is another sore point – if he gave me and our relationship half the courtesy and consideration he gives his employer/coworkers and job performance, I’d likely be a very happy camper. Even with the ADD suspicion, he refuses to do anything about it, even homeopathic remedies like exercise or meditation or learning tools to cope. If he won’t treat it, what can I do?
I’m feel very much alone in this relationship. “Emotional negligence” is the term that comes to mind. In small ways like leaving things around, but also in extremely big ways. After seeing that talking never helps, no matter how I approached it, I sent a short concise email, pretty much begging that we figure something out. I was so careful how I worded it; it was crafted so that it was vulnerable and soft and non-accusatory, just coming from a place of “please help me/help us” and “I am hurting”. He didn’t acknowledge receiving it. A week later I asked, and he said he didn’t have time to write back. I told him it really hurt me that I wrote such a painful email basically asking him to care, and he says nothing. Doesn’t he see that that can be painful? “I was busy, so we’ll talk about it now,” he responded. But then said he had no thoughts and nothing to say about it. It’s like constant rejection, constant messages that I and my needs don’t matter.
We are currently discussing divorce. He doesn’t want to work on anything, he immediately shut down and says he is empty and depressed and has no energy. (And because he’s so empty and depressed, that means sleeping in and then going out with friends.) More of the same behavior but now if I say anything about it, I’m mean, right? I have to be understanding and give him space. I have to respect his needs. I’m saying this with a slight hint of sarcasm because it makes me so bitter that I am expected to respect his needs while mine aren’t acknowledged for years.
I always thought that in a good relationship you learn from another person. You become a better person because of the arguments, because you learn about yourself and your faults and how to better them. The arguments become cathartic. You fight, you figure it out, you make up, and sometimes you have a good lesson about yourself from it. But I feel like all I have learned in this relationship is how to have self-preservation and be more selfish.
Honey: NO. He doesn’t have ADD if he can manage putting the effort into other aspects of his life. That was my refrain with my ex too: “If you could put as much effort into helping me as you do … xyz… things could be better”
Look; it might not be his fault he wasn’t raised to prioritize you or your needs. Maybe he came from a household where there were very traditional gender roles. But to shut down when you bring them up? That’s not cool, nor a good sign. He isn’t going to change.
There is no “too early” or “too late” to tell him what you need. There is no “right time” and there is no magic algorithm to ask him without hurting his feelings. There is nothing you can do to fix this, and he cannot hide behind ADD or depression any more. Lord knows: my mental health never allowed me to check out of important relationships or stop doing emotional and physical labour.
My heart hurts for you because I’ve been there and I know how soul-killing it is. I encourage you to leave him. You don’t need permission. He doesn’t have to be mean or hit you for you to know you need something different. Since leaving my (very nice, but clueless) ex, I have been SO much happier. The work I do for myself is SO much more fulfulling. Your spouse is not a support to you: he is dead weight (I’m sorry). Please, search for your happiness: it is out there within your grasp. Don’t waste time with someone who can’t be what you need.
(FWIW my ex even reached out to Matt, the author of this article. Matt gave him really good advice. It still wasn’t enough. <3)
It’s hard to read this Julia, but I understand that you’ve been there, and I can’t possibly know your experiences or why you feel so much conviction about how positive ending a marriage can be.
I like optimistically believing there’s hope, but I’ve seen VERY FEW examples of husbands in this scenario changing behavior patterns so much that the marriage recovers and thrives.
I really appreciate you mentioning that your husband reached out and that you felt my response to him was useful and helpful.
I’ve had so many of those email exchanges, I have no way of knowing which it was, but I think it’s safe to say it didn’t produce its intended goal. 🙁
You nevertheless sound as if you’re doing well, and I’m grateful for that.
Thank you for sharing here, Julia.
I’m so sorry, Samantha. I’ve been there. I’m still there and finally getting OUT. It took me years of mostly the same thing. I married a man child. I love him and I love our kids but I have to get out. I can’t raise three kids. I stopped at two for a reason. I have filed for divorce, and for the first month all he said was “I don’t understand why.” To which I said, silently, “that’s why: you stopped understanding what my needs are.”
This is a great community.
I, personally, say: get out while you can. He’s not gonna change. The writing is on the wall. You are smart. Don’t waste your life and your energy. Raise your kids right. We got you.
Hey Jenn,
It’s sad he asked that question too late. Did you try to explain to him again? Did he ever finally understand?
I explain so much and it feels similar to banging my head against the wall – it hurts and gets me nowhere.
Kudos to you for having strength to leave. This is my 2nd marriage. My first was terribly abusive and it was much easier to decide to leave because it was so obvious to me and everyone around me. It hardly felt like a decision. This time is hard because the damage is much more under the radar and begs the question, “is it bad enough to leave?” He doesn’t drink, he does go to work, he is not physically abusive…but is that enough to stay?
I probably won’t marry again. It just isn’t worth it. All work and no play makes Jill a dull girl.
I’m so sorry…. Emotional abuse counts, too. And if you feel abused, or undervalued over a period of time that just isn’t going away, then I sincerely hope you ask yourself what is right for you. Banging your head against the wall is only going to hurt you. Not him. Do right by you, grrrrrl.
I am done explaining. He is finally telling me “he’s glad” I came to this decision “for me” because he’s going to be happier too. He’s already dating even though we still live together. His obtuseness and selfishness is out of hand. He’d be going crazy if I was dating already. But whatever. Just get me out of this marriage!! We should be there soon!
I have heard that many times men will immediately start dating because 1) they can’t handle the blow to their self-esteem 2) they can’t stand being alone and 3) they need to distract themselves from the loneliness. So don’t think necessarily that he has already “moved on”. He is simply kicking the can (ie introspection) down the road. You’re doing great – focus on yourself and what you need!
Thank you, Eileen… it all makes 100% sense. And honestly, I am so over this marriage, nothing he does – except for yelling at the kids and/or me – bothers me any more. I just want out. House goes on the market next month. I’m looking for a place for me and the kids. And waiting for all the pieces to fall into place. He’s losing his sugar mama. I know what’ he’s doing. He was told years ago by a mutual boss of ours that, without me, he would be naked and starving. And although I was shocked that someone told him that, I know it’s true. Even his mother called me and told me that she’s worried he’ll end up on the streets. Guess what? NOT MY EFFING PROBLEM ANY MORE. I WILL NOT MANAGE HIM ANY MORE. SEE YA.
Also “he needs sex because I’m aesexual to him” because I cut him off. Yeah, ok. Just don’t find my tumblr account, bub.
My ex, after 2 years of marital counselling and tons of books about marriage, tried to chastize my wanting to leave by saying “Now is where the hard work [in marriage] starts” – um no. I’ve been doing the work. I’m out. (and goddamn it now I’m happy!)
I plan on being one of the happy ones soon!!! 🙂
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Reblogged this on A Walk with God, through Marriage, Family and Personal Life.
My wife sent this blog to me via e-mail and said that this epitomizes her view of our 27-year marriage. I have been providing very well financially for our family for the past 15 years following financial struggles for decades prior. My wife earns more than the median household income at her job and yet pays for absolutely nothing. She does whatever she wants with her money and this has never been an issue for me.
Travel is her passion. She takes at least three grand vacations every year and she pays for nothing. She has traveled the world courtesy of being married to me but she considers me to be an emotionally abusive asshat who doesn’t give a damn about her. What she fails to see in the big picture is how deeply I have loved her and made it possible for her to pursue her passion for travel. All I have ever wanted was for her to be happy. Traveling makes her happy.
As a direct result of this article and my wife’s reaction to it, I have decided that if she wants a roommate type of arrangement where we split everything up equally in terms of housework, then this will also extend to the financial aspect of our household. This will require more than her entire paycheck every month. She will either be handing over her entire paycheck as well as dipping into her savings every month in order to pay her share of the household bills or we will be moving to a more affordable house. Travel will be substantially curtailed and will have to be mutually agreed upon and fall within our new budget. Either that or she can divorce me because of my “emotional abuse”.
Ladies, be careful what you ask for; you may get it.
Yes. Women don’t appreciate things and are mostly blind to their own shortcomings. Make her spend her own money and then send her an article about how happy women are with broke husbands that clean well.
At this point it would be a joy to cleanly separate assets and spend my own money. I likely wouldn’t get a broke husband who could clean well unless he brought something else to the table, since I already do most of the cleaning. But I pull about 20k gross less than my husband and he spends well over 20k net more than I would spend if he weren’t around, largely on supporting our deadbeat in-laws and shiny toys that he wants to have. You live in your reality and I live in mine; I definitely have flaws and I can own up to them, but if my husband can’t do the same then this relationship will be over.
It sounds like your wife wants respect, not equal chores.
Throwing money at someone does not equal love. It sounds like you’re controlling her because you give her everything she wants. Not necessarily everything she needs. (I.E: emotional connection)
“As a direct result of this article and my wife’s reaction to it, I have decided..” there it is. “*I* have decided.” It shows your wife has no say. You both are not equals nor are you partners. Your ability to toss feelings aside so quickly to say, “Be careful what you ask for; you may get it.” shows that you are controlling and do not hold respect for her. No relationship is ever 50/50%. To believe that is childish. Sometimes it’s 30/70, other times 80/20. It’s a partnership where you both understand that you both have to do everything you can for each other even when all you can offer at times is 20%.
You two need counselling, because what you have is not a relationship.
Hi Dave. Thanks for your comments. I will not argue with your analysis. We have tried counseling half a dozen times. She loves counseling as long as the counselor is pointing out what I am doing wrong. In every case, the first time the counselor points to things she could improve, that is the last time we see that counselor. She spends the drive home telling me how that counselor clearly doesn’t understand anything. She insists that she is faultless and the epitome of a great wife. While I will not air dirty laundry about my wife, I will tell you that her position on this is delusional. I know that I am flawed, particularly where it comes to being a husband and father.
She sees me as everything that is wrong with our family. Perhaps she is correct. In that case, after 3 decades together, maybe it is time for me to admit that I am simply not cut out for a relationship.
Jim, I have to apologize for assuming things about you such as previous counselling endeavors and can understand your bitterness. As someone who has gone through multiple therapists, I understand it can be difficult to find one worth their salt that doesn’t just pick sides one way or the other. It was unfair of me to judge so harshly. It sounds like your wife has her fair share of issues she needs to sort. She sounds like my own mother who is bipolar. If she is of a similar brain, trying to convince her she has a problem will be incredibly difficult or downright impossible.. which stinks. With help, a lot of people with those types of personality disorders and their partners can lead a much more fulfilling life. If that is the case, there is only so much you can do on your end. It does not make you less or unworthy of love or a relationship. I am sorry you both are going through such rough times for so long, and I am doubly sorry for passing undeserved judgement.
No apologies necessary at all. I even appreciated Mickisue’s post despite being called “clueless”. I cannot learn from posts which completely agree with me. They do “feel” much better but will not move me forward from where I am now. I don’t know where this will go but it seems it may be time to “Move out and draw fire.”
Women are insufferable….
The answer to one question will let me know if you really are as clueless as you seem. Here it is: Do you clean up after yourself?
So far as I have seen, what the author’s ex wife and your wife were/are asking for is not to be treated like a servant. Even servants get to travel when their masters allow it, you know. But a servant/master relationship is not a good model for a marriage.
The fact that you believe that you have “given” her the benefits of your higher earning potential, rather than having it be part of what you bring to the marriage, says a lot.
Thank you for your enlightened perspective on my post. As you may have noticed, cleaning up after ones self is subject to individual interpretation and the expectations – either explicit or implicit – of each party to the conversation. It is, in fact, the basic premise of the original post. In my opinion, I clean up after myself. My wife clearly feels differently about the subject.
I completely agree with your assertion that a servant/master relationship is not a good model for a marriage. Would you agree that it takes a myriad of things to run a household? Grocery shopping, general housecleaning, yard work, repair work, meal preparation, meal cleanup, taking care of pets, helping kids with homework, running kids around, keeping the family physically healthy, planning family vacations and executing them are just a few. None of that is even possible without the financial component. What percentage of the entire puzzle would you say is composed of the financial component? All I am saying is that if we are going to split duties that make a household operate, we must also include the financial component.
I have not so much “given” her the benefit of my higher earning potential as I am suggesting it must be considered as part of what I bring to the relationship and our household. She has to this point considered the entire financial component of our household and my financial contribution to it negligible. Her complaint about me is that I consider it part of what I contribute to the running of our household. To be fair, without it, we wouldn’t have the household we have. I don’t think it is unreasonable to consider the financial component of a household a real contribution to what it takes to make things work.
I’m curious about this part of your post:
would you agree that it takes a myriad of things to run a household? Grocery shopping, general housecleaning, yard work, repair work, meal preparation, meal cleanup, taking care of pets, helping kids with homework, running kids around, keeping the family physically healthy, planning family vacations and executing them are just a few. None of that is even possible without the financial component. What percentage of the entire puzzle would you say is composed of the financial component? All I am saying is that if we are going to split duties that make a household operate, we must also include the financial component.
first, did you agree at some point that your wife would use her money to do what she wants and not contribute to household finances and you didn’t mind?
second, do you do any of the things you listed above? do you split the housework listed above? and then you pay for everything, including her traveling, on top of that?
or do you maintain that all those household-y things are made possible because of your financial contributions and if you do a few of them or do them sporadically that is offset by your financial contribution?
i’m also curious about why she travels alone or without you. is that your choice or hers?
if you’ve been married for 27 years then you are probably in my age group – mid to late 40s – and your wife is in that in between generation of traditional gender roles evolving into one of more expectations from men who are breadwinners -i.e., that bringing home a paycheck doesn’t make you automatically an ideal marriage partner, just like doing all the housework doesn’t make you an ideal marriage partner. the key word is “partner”. your tone implies you don’t consider your wife a true partner. and the point of the blog is what so many men miss – that it matters not if the wife was a bat shit crazy bitch – it is about personal accountability. even if she was not a great wife, that doesn’t mean it’s ok to be a “bad” husband. the the whole “two wrongs don’t make a right” approach we teach our kids. should she be accountable for her mistakes? yes absolutely. but she isn’t writing the blog. the author is only taking responsibility for his own actions and resisting the urge to say he behaved one way or another because of what the other person did – justifying or making excuses for something he felt was minor is what got him into trouble to start with. so he is correcting that.
back to my point about you – you refer to the fact that you pay for everything in a way that sounds like your wife should be grateful. that is not partnership. if you pay for everything and split ALL the housework and she does not contribute financially and then leaves you to travel alone and does not include you – then that is not partnership either. So i would want to know why you are married to someone who leeches off of you that way. or do you contribute financially, and then sporadically engage in household duties and lack complete interest in sharing your wife’s passions (i.e., traveling with her) but graciously “allow” her to travel on your dime? that’s not partnership either.
so which is it?
That’s a lot of words to say that you don’t actually clean up after yourself, Jimmy. It should be pretty obvious if you’ve cleaned up after yourself; the spot that you just used will be as clean or cleaner than you left it. That is basic boy-scout rules and any kid should know it.
TBH it sounds like you think a cash injection replaces any active involvement in the maintenance of the household. You earn a big income, maybe, but it sounds like she earns a pretty decent one too. If you’re spending close to your full income on things that you want personally, or things that are more important to you than her and the rest of the family, then maybe you’re not contributing as much as you think. The ONLY reason my family goes on vacations to fancy places each year is because my husband demands it, so these trips don’t factor into the contribution calculus. Nobody else in the household cares; it’s a treat for him only.
Everything else in your list is best contributed with actual presence and personal effort. If you’re spending money to help your kids with homework instead of doing it yourself, that’s a major loss in bonding opportunity and probably counts against you if your partner is holding out hope for you to play a strong father figure role.
I hear what your saying but I think thsi is way extreme. It hurts her so much that the glass is left there. A physical action. Yet she may say things that are extremely condescending and belitlling and actually emotionally hurtful in reaction to a physical circumstance because she thinks it means something that it doesnt mean at all.
There is definitely a balance to be met and in this circumstance it just sounds completely unbalanced. Just as much as you are to understand your wife point of view YOUR WIFR SHOULD BE WILLING TO UNDERSTAND YOIR POINT OF VIEW.
She should be able to suck it up just like you arr recommending the husband do in this circumstance. She shouod be able to let it go just like the husband is able to let go of the million things she might do that he doesnt like. Yet he doesnt read into them to assume they mean ans say things about his intentions that are completely untrue.
For someone to assume that you dont care a out them because they have a dish habit that is completely perfect and to end a marriage for it is completely unrrasonable. Again this just sounds completely unbalanced. Its abvious you were able to see things from her point of view in this circumstance, why is it mandatory for you to see things her way and not the other way around?
Why is it necessary for you to be perfect in every way for yoir wife to understand that you do love her, regardless of the cup here or there left oj the side of the sink. Its apparent that she cares more about controlling your actions and you being perfect AND THEN she will love you.
You leaving a dish by thr sink is a physical mistake, physical things can be hard to control, but emotionally its not hard to not let yourself be dependent on every physical thing about your partner being perfect to still understand that they care. This doesnt sound like unconditional love at all. I would be happy to leave this marriage or have the spouse do it for me if the marriage is so fragile that its balances on whether a you remember to put a dish away or not.
Women are like that. It’s in their DNA. You must not be married. My big problem with Matt is that he never talks about his ex’s problems and takes all the blame.
Yes, I agree with you! I am a woman and I’m married to a man who leaves dishes by the sink. Does it annoy me? Yes! But do I think it means he doesn’t love me or respect me? NOOOOO!
I recognize that my husband is just not wired like I am. It doesn’t matter to him if dirty dishes are next to the sink – and that is okay. I am an adult and as an adult, I understand that people are different. I am not going to ascribe meaning to something meaningless. It would be illogical for me to believe my husband’s failure to put dishes in the sink means that he doesn’t respect me. Because where he leaves dishes has NOTHING to do with how much he loves me, it just has to do with how he’s wired! And because I love him, I have chosen not to get worked up over a tiny habit. My marriage and my love for my husband is much stronger than my desire to have dirty dishes in the “right” place.
Liz, I think you might be half-right. Every relationship has its friction points, and if a relationship is otherwise going swimmingly, the glasses in the sink will never be a deal-breaker issue except maybe if someone is suffering from an extreme case of OCD.
But I think the point here is that most relationships where one partner thinks it’s okay to do this, and the other hates it, are NOT otherwise-healthy relationships. More likely, what you have is a case where one partner is obliviously or intentionally ignoring the wishes of the other partner because it’s the easy route. A hundred little issues, spread across the topics of household chores, parenting, finance, time-allocation or sex, makes for a pretty big difference of opinion in the end, and if it’s always one partner being smothered for the other, it can be a big problem.
It’s not just one glass though. If leaving dirty glasses by the sink was the only problem – there wouldn’t be a problem.
The problem is husbands behaving like entitled manchildren who leave a trail of mess and expect their wives to be their servant, and their mothers, as well as a sex servant.
The glass is representative of a much wider problem of men behaving like lazy children and not listening to their wives/servants. If you think that a wife would divorce a husband JUST for leaving dirty glasses on the sink you’ve missed the entire point of the article.
It’s remarkable how much this is missed, but reinforces the entire point, I think.
Thank you for reading and contributing. You get it.
wow great, you’re teaching men how to be submissive just to not get divorced. Look at how many women comments over here cheering you because you figured what they really want: men who follow their rules; men who avoid discussion; men who prefer to trash out their reasoning just to not lose a no-rational wife.
Thanks for the job, buddy.
Not sure your reading comprehension is up to snuff. But I have a solution if the truth is too difficult for you: Don’t get married. OR. Only marry a “rational” woman.
Then all of your problems will be solved, right?
Understand what your marriage partner needs and deliver it. It’s not about submissiveness. It’s about not being a cockbag. Good luck with that.
What about your needs. What did your ex do for you. We only hear about what you didn’t do but was she a good wife to you?
Forgive me for answering your question with a question, but it must be asked:
If you KNOW you made errors in judgment and accidentally damaged your partner in a way that they experienced as intentional, at worst, and grossly negligent at best, how can you objectively evaluate THEIR actions?
Just maybe, all of the stuff that she did that upset me wouldn’t have happened if I’d understood back then what I do now instead of telling her she was crazy and overreacting and that her expressed experiences were fundamentally flawed.
Maybe if every time we had a disagreement, she didn’t hear me essentially say that I would NEVER stop hurting her because I disagreed that I did something hurtful, she would have been much different.
Statistically speaking, she made several mistakes too. She’s a human being.
But I don’t know how to fairly evaluate her without knowing what she may or may not have done had she not felt perpetually hurt by things I said and did.
I hear you and I appreciate you ability to self-reflect because a lot of people can’t do that. You mentioned in other posts about how society is not preparing young men and boys to be good husbands. I think there is some truth to that but if a young man reads this blog he will be left with the impression that marriage is a one way street where a husband can only not be shitty if he doesn’t expect much from his wife and does everything he can to make her happy and not feel great emotional pain from things that make him happy i.e. leaving the glass out. You have some good points Matt but both men and women read this and the lack of balance gives people the wrong idea about marriage. This is why you get some of the negative responses. The glass thing could have been a bigger issue for you as well. You could have rightfully viewed it as an attempt by her to disregard your feelings as an adult because she knows better. If she respected you then maybe there could have been some sort of compromise. Keep being open and honest because some of us need to hear it but please be mindful of the fact that a lot of women on here would be well served by getting some advice on how to be better wives because I don’t think society does a good job of preparing little girls to be good wives either.
I don’t disagree with much, if any, of what you said, minus the part where I think young men should be left with the impression that I advocate submission.
I advocate selfless love IN marriage. If people prefer a more self-centered life, I make no judgments. I just encourage them to not marry, because it’s not likely to work out.
That’s not a man thing. That’s an everybody thing. Everyone must be selfless. But I write in the first-person. I write about my life and my experiences, and trust that it’s a lot like other people’s because I’m a super-average dude across the board.
As a first-person storyteller, there just isn’t much room for blame-shifting, finger-pointing and judgment of my ex-wife or any wives.
Of course women can and should do and be more in marriage. But purely from a statistical standpoint, mostly men are making this critical mistake — this inability to understand that we don’t get to tell other people whether what they experience is valid or “correct.”
People WILL make their own judgments about what they’ve just been through. If that person is your spouse (or anyone you value), you damn well better respect those experiences, or your relationship will be shitty with them.
Men frequently demonstrate little interest in compromise because they don’t agree when their wives or girlfriends said something hurt or that something bad happened.
We don’t deal with their reality. We deny its existence.
And for anyone who values their marriage or family, the need to stop doing that or it only ends one way.
Jimmy’s comment: “You have some good points Matt but both men and women read this and the lack of balance gives people the wrong idea about marriage. If she respected you then maybe there could have been some sort of compromise.”
Matt’s comment: “Of course women can and should do and be more in marriage. But purely from a statistical standpoint, mostly men are making this critical mistake — this inability to understand that we don’t get to tell other people whether what they experience is valid or “correct. Men frequently demonstrate little interest in compromise because they don’t agree when their wives or girlfriends said something hurt or that something bad happened. We don’t deal with their reality. We deny its existence. And for anyone who values their marriage or family, the need to stop doing that”
Both comments are right of course, but in my experience there’s no doubt that men demonstrate this problem more often. I have often wondered whether this is a biology thing – including the fact that in most species females tend to defer to males because of their relative strength and louder voices – or a culture thing, where girls grow up seeing mum defer to dad and endless films show the male hero making all the decisions and winning the day. Probably both. But whatever the reason, I see men compromising less than their partners. And I have never seen any sign of a man recognizing that his dominance has caused his partner pain. The odd thing is that I noticed this long before I realized that I was just as guilty of dominating my wife and causing her that same pain. How easily we see faults in others!
This doesn’t mean that the women I know always give way. They don’t, but they do give way more. More importantly, the men don’t realize that the lack of compromise causes their partners pain. This is where the harm is done, and which I believe is Matt’s central point.
But where Matt says “Of course women can and should do and be more in marriage,” I have to say that I honestly don’t think that my wife could possibly have done more or have done it better. This isn’t rose coloured glasses. I don’t think she’s perfect – she certainly isn’t – and I would have liked her to have approached a few things differently, but I married the person I met (lucky me!), not some make-your-perfect-wife model. But could she have DONE more? No way.
Its so hard to have these discussions, because every marriage is different and its natural to feel defensive if you feel attacked. But its so important that we have them, so I certainly appreciate Matt starting this public dialogue. I agree that both boys and girls could be better prepared to be husbands and wives. One of my theories for my generation (I’m Gen X) is that my husband and I were both raised in “traditional” homes, where the dad’s brought home the paycheck and the mom’s took care of the kids and household responsibilities. Today, that is far less likely, as both partners may work and women are even the primary (sometimes sole) breadwinner in many families. However, since we came from families where women were responsible for all of the household duties, we (men and women) have no model for how to share that role. In my own case, I am the primary breadwinner AND I am still responsible for running the household–childcare, shopping, cooking, cleaning, scheduling, etc…my husband will “help”, when asked (sometimes), but he has no role model for a man taking an active role in that way. this comic sums it up well: https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/. Not saying this is the situation in your household, Jimmy. If I were in a situation where my husband was the sole breadwinner, I would expect to take on more of the household manager role, and I don’t think I would mind it at all. It all depends on what was agreed upon when a couple decides to get married. Unfortunately, in many cases (mine, for sure) we didn’t even come close to ever discussing ANY of this prior to marriage…so that would be a good place to start. I appreciate you guys continuing the dialogue.
Love that comic. Nails it.
Yeah, interesting cartoon about the “thinking work”. As someone who writes, I’m always envious of how much more impact there is to words when accompanied by some cartoons, versus the same words just out there in sans serif.
And as someone who’s run a (catering) kitchen, the thinking work is harder work than the worky work. It’s one easy thing to get something out the freezer to defrost — it’s another thing to KNOW that that’s what needs to happen next.
Part of the problem is, the thinking work is hard to share. You can share cleaning, cooking or shopping, but things work much better when ONE person is in charge of thinking about any particular area. Not doing all the work, but like the project manager in the cartoon, doing the planning. It’s tiring and it’s hard to share out.
(Replying to myself) …it may be the kitchen work that cured me of this problem. If the guy (and it usually is a guy) leading the previous shift has left HIS mess for ME to clear up, well, it’s not going to be pretty, and we are both armed with sharp knives.
Read the Second Shift. I read that in college in 1993 and wish I had paid attention. Nothing has changed. Feminism gave women the right to work out of the home, but did not change the fact that things still need to be run at home. Working outside of the home is the norm for most families, for mere survival now, The Mental Load is a thing. And for some of us, we can’t let things go. For me, if I let my physical environment go, my emotional environment goes to HELL. So, I understand it’s a choice. But it’s also a choice to have food in the house. Or clean clothes. Or clean dishes. So pull together, or be pulled apart.
Awesome comic. Spot on.
“Trash out their reasoning” surely, because women are all irrational creatures and we only get upset because we’re irrational, not because we have rational reasons to be upset that you either don’t understand because YOU are irrational, or because you have a vested reason not to understand!
I’m pretty sure all you do by posting comments about “no-rational” women is convince women that there’s a high percentage of men who are retarded, since that was never a real phrase in English grammar. I’m married and at this point I’m trying very hard to convince myself that what I want is a man who follows my rules of not molesting me in my sleep and not ignoring everything I say. At this point if I had known about my husband’s traits beforehand, I would have never married him. But we’re now intertwined socially and financially so things are a bit more difficult. Sorry bud but this has nothing to do with the extra 20 cents per dollar that you might make over a woman; I’d rather laugh and eat ramen than cry while eating lobster, and so would most people with a brain in their head.
I recently discovered your blog and am making my way through all your posts. This post is highly validating. I think sometimes it’s hard for me(maybe women in general) to even verbalize how something as silly as a glass left on the sink is a bother. It was never about the glass. For years I’ve questioned what was wrong with me to be so bothered and hurt by these little things. Your blog has really brought a lot of peace of mind to me and my feelings. It unfortunately doesn’t make my situation better but at least I’m able to see that I’m not crazy.
It’s so hard to explain to someone. It’s nuanced. So I try to do it a hundred different ways and occasionally it sticks. This seemed to be one of the times more people got it than usual.
But it’s two and a half years later, and even today I got three or four comments from people who think it’s bullshit.
Can’t help everyone. :/
If you want a fair and unbiased discussion I reccomend entertaining your guest commenters and their point of view. People like to discuss not argue. Everyone with a different point of view doesnt have a reading comprehension error. They just dont understand or see things or believe in what/the way you do. Maybe we can actually have a discussion.
Of course some peoples comments are slightly arrogant but that’s what your here for isnt ot? To bring light and help people see the other perspective. Just remember though that the point is to connect the two points of view to understand one another not to say one is wrong and one is right and now that you see things “her way” that everyone else should understand this also without “reading comprehension issues”.
Maybe the “old you” would understand where these people are coming from in not seeing things perfect in the Sam’s light you do now, again that was the point wasn’t it? To help people see the other perspective like you have? If they have reading comprehension issues then perhaps you could gently explain it differently.
I know this is an old comment on an even older post but I just don’t care. I have been married to my husband for 15 years and we are both in our 30’s. We have 4 children. I stay home with them and my husband has a paying job. I homeschool our two oldest children and wrangle the younger two while I’m at it. They ages 2, 4, 6 and 15. I take on most of the household chores and childcare because that is what makes the most sense. He does most of the shopping because it is easier for him to do on his way home from work than for me to take all four children with me to the store. When my husband is home we tackle things together. However, we still deal with issues like these. We have had disagreements over sleep because I feel that his sleep has been prioritized over mine as more important because he goes to work and I don’t. He doesn’t see it that way even though he gets the most sleep hands down. There are chores he never does even when he is home nights, weekends or on vacation. Like dishes for example. This doesn’t necessarily bother me. During the regular work week however, I feel it is fair that because he has his day job that he goes to clocks in and then clocks out and comes home and his day job responsibilities no longer apply to him, that a similar thing should apply to me. I get everything done that needs to be done before he gets home, cooking, cleaning children bathed and put to bed. So, I do not like to have to do those things when he comes home. He will eat dinner and leave his dishes on the stove/in the sink. I try not to let it but this bothers me quite a lot. I have talked with him respectfully and kindly about it but he still does it. Sometimes he leaves them in the living room and goes to bed and of course I take care of them because I don’t want bugs and we have small children that will get into them and make a mess. My thought is this, I would not do this to him. I do not do this to him. There are all kinds of things that he wants done in a very specific way and I understand that it bothers him if things aren’t. I show him understanding and respect and love. He’s a very loving man and I do know that he loves me. The dishes in the sink, on the stove, in the living room that happens because he is tired from work. I get it, I do. But it also tells me that he doesn’t honestly believe that I am tired too. That I work very hard with our children and our home. That I am just as important and appreciated as he is. That my contribution is less than his and less important. He can tell me he loves, appreciates, and respects me and what I do until he’s blue in the face. But he isn’t showing it. And you know what? Actions speak louder than words. They really do. I not only tell him that I love, respect and appreciate him, I also show it with my actions. I need the same in return. I know he would have lost his mind along time ago if I behaved as he does. If I left things for him to do and wouldn’t stop even after he asked me to over and over. If I decided that the work he does to support our family wasn’t as important or as hard as what I do and so therefore his thoughts and feelings didn’t matter as much as mine. I can’t imagine actually thinking that way. I can’t even imagine treating someone like that, let alone the person I supposedly want to spend the rest of my life with.
Your comment is so powerful! It’s almost painful to read. I’m sure your situation must be painful for you.
I know I won’t, but I would love to hear your husband’s point of view on this, because I’m sure he doesn’t see the situation the same way. From all the good things you have to say about him, I’m sure he wouldn’t be doing this deliberately. But that’s the whole point, isn’t it? We blunder around in our marriages like bulls in a china shop, not realising how much damage we are causing. As you say, “I can’t imagine actually thinking that way.” But if Matt were to sit your husband down and get him to see your point of view, he would probably say the same thing: “I can’t imagine athinking that way.” It’s odd that there can be such a huge but invisible gap between partners who are otherwise so close to each other.
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I think I saved this post almost 2 years ago and I still think about it regularly. Of course people view things differently but at the very least there are some conversation starters here. Thank you for sharing.
I am a woman and I’m married to a man who leaves dishes by the sink. Does it annoy me? Yes! But do I think it means he doesn’t love me or respect me? NOOOOO!
I recognize that my husband is just not wired like I am. It doesn’t matter to him if dirty dishes are next to the sink – and that is okay. I am an adult and as an adult, I understand that people are different. I am not going to ascribe meaning to something meaningless. It would be illogical for me to believe my husband’s failure to put dishes in the sink means that he doesn’t respect me. Because where he leaves dishes has NOTHING to do with how much he loves me, it just has to do with how he’s wired! And because I love him, I have chosen not to get worked up over a tiny habit. My marriage and my love for my husband is much stronger than my desire to have dirty dishes in the “right” place.
Your (ex)wife’s desire to have dishes in the “right” isn’t any more legitimate than your desire to have them in the “right” place in your mind. You do not have to be a doormat. You both failed to communicate and that is at the heart of the problem, not that she should have gotten her way and you were “shitty” for failing to do otherwise.
I came to read this post after seeing so many people rave about it. All I can say is…I’m disappointed and a little disturbed.
You want to talk about it Liz?
It’s not about the dish.
You don’t care about dishes. I can tell.
What do you care about? Anything.
Now exchange the dish metaphor for The Thing You Care About.
If your husband or boyfriend hypothetically shitted all over The Thing You Care About, you’d feel differently.
This isn’t an article about dishes.
This is an article about intentionally caring about things simply because the people we love care about them.
NOT doing so ends thousands of marriages every day. I’m so glad yours won’t be among them.
Some people have anxiety. They obsess and care about things to an unhealthy extent and exaggerate and dramatize the severity of certain things. Should we obsess with then because that’s what a good spouse would do? Also people forget, some people are more forgetful than others and may forget to put the dish away. This doesnt mean they dont care.
To assume someone doesnt care about you because of a dish is giving them very little benefit of the doubt. People also have different interests, some people dont care about dishes and want to focus more on other stuff in life. Maybe these two people are just not compatible, if they care about the dishes and the other person just isnt too crazy about them then maybe the marriage just wont work?
OR MAYBE THEY COULD MEET HALFWAY?
I understand, Patrick.
Everything I write can only focus on one tiny thing.
Of course wives should (in my opinion) demonstrate loving patience, forgiveness, generous reactions to the mistakes that affect them when they know that they were not intentional acts of harm.
Of course I believe in loving compromise.
Of course I believe that, on the surface, an argument about dirty dishes is not a valid reason to divorce.
I’m simply trying to illustrate the problem that exists in marriage that most often ends them. Please don’t focus on dishes. Because every human feels varying degrees of pain for varying reasons.
The dish doesn’t cause the pain. Feeling as if one’s husband (or spouse) loves them so little, that they repeatedly refuse to do the tiniest little thing to help their marriage partner for feeling hurt.
If all you needed to not feel severe pain and anxiety was the person who promised to love you forever putting a glass in the dishwasher after they were done with it, but refused, and then every time you asked them for help so that you wouldn’t feel severe pain and anxiety any more, they not only indicate that they refuse to change, but that they think you’re stupid for feeling as you do.
That something is wrong with you. That you are sick or mentally imbalanced.
Wouldn’t that drive you away eventually?
Wouldn’t that cause you to pull back mentally and emotionally to protect yourself from repeated pain that has morphed into feelings of neglect and abuse after being denied help so many times?
I’m 100% with you on compatibility. People need to figure this shit out BEFORE getting married.
But once vows are made, homes are made, and children are counting on their parents to get them to adulthood?
We need to step up. Big time. And that’s not happening.
All because of semantics and a nuanced misunderstanding.
And THAT is tragic.
Severe pain and anxiety from dishes is definitely a sign of mental imbalance.
Once again, not getting the point there, Patrick. As my grandfather used to say, “There are none so blind as those who will not see.”
I’m pretty old. And one thing I’ve learned over time is that if people don’t want to understand something, they will contort their minds in whatever way necessary to avoid it.
Patrick’s comments, and so many others here, are sad cases in point.
Trust me we completely understand his unbalanced point of view. Now if there was a little more balance then I would COMPLETELY agree. I understand that it matters if someone never helps and takes advantage of you which may or may not include never doing their dishes. That’s not what we are talking about. I am saying if you have an otherwise healthy marriage and do everything else to consider the other individual, but the only thing is literally one glass by the sink here or there, it should not be made into a big deal and all of the other effort that person is putting in to the relationship should not be taken for granted or overlooked because they leave a dish here or there.
I completely understand that its not my place to tell someone how they are allowed to feel about something and perhaps it truly does cause them so much mental suffering (caused by feeling disrespected). What I am saying is that if the person is doing everything else right(their share of chores etc) besides the dish here or there perhaps the other person really does have an unhealthy obsession of wanting everything to be perfectly their way. It would be unfair for them to assume that person doesnt care when they doing everything else to par.
Who actually cares about dishes??? No one. My husband likes the floors to be vacuumed and mopped after every meal ( and oftentimes in between) because he is OCD. It bothers him in such an extreme way that you would not believe. But it’s not because he cares about the floors being clean. He doesn’t. It’s because he has PTSD. And because of his PTSD he has also developed OCD. When he sees debris on the floor it sends him right back to those traumatic events and he starts to lose it. We are working on it but in the meantime we vacuum and mop the floor quite a lot every day. If I didn’t know why he feels the way he does I would look at him like he had a third eye when he expected things like that (I still kinda do). But I care enough about him to and how he feels to keep the floors to his standards even though they are not my standards. I would just sweep up after each meal and then mop after dinner ( we have 4 children so it would be gross otherwise). It’s not about dishes or floors or any other chores. It is about caring for your spouse/partner enough to help them. Even if you don’t agree with the way they see things. How does it hurt you to wash a dish and put it away? It doesn’t hurt me to keep my floors white glove inspection clean. And guess what? Vacuuming and mopping all day long takes a lot more time and effort than washing a couple of dishes and putting them away. But I love my husband and I want him to feel safe.
Every day I read so much awful news and negative comments. It gets me down, so much that sometimes I tell myself I must stop reading. And then days like today come along, when I read (on different sites) several comments that are brimming over with love and caring and compassion and tenderness. Jessica, I know nothing about you other than what is revealed in this post, but I would hazard a guess that your husband is an incredibly lucky man to have you by your side while he has to battle his medical issues. I think this is the mindset and support we all hope to find in marriage.
Wow, after all the comments on this article it still shocks me how individuals still think this article is about dishes and then give sage advice about how it is nuts to care about dirty dishes.
it’s not about dishes people. for real, get a clue.
The article is definitely about his wife leaving him over dirty dishes. He even lists reasons he might leave a dirty dish in the sink. Half the article talks about dirty dishes. Dirty dishes are definitely a big part 9f what its about. Do I need to count the number of times “dish” is mentioned in this article?
His wife left him because he didnt put away the dish by the sink. Now if animosity was generated by the ordeal then the animosity would be the main problem not the dish at all. Animosity is very bad for a relationship. That’s why I choose not to judge people for habits as long as they dont cause me actual harm (definition of harm does not include psychological dirty dish distess generated by someone’s exaggeration of the severity of dirty dish situations)
If they were a complete slob and you weren’t compatible divorce is understandable but to get all butt fondled over a stray cup here or there is really a fucking joke and I dont understand how you dont see this as unrealistic expectations.
Do you not have enough positive qualities that all they can focus on is the occasional fork next to the sink. It’s both of your house. If you want to leave a dish next to the sink for whatever reason you should be granted that freedom.
What if your freedom to leave a dirty dish by the sink was just important to you as the organization and cleanliness is to her. Why does her desire take precedence over your wants and needs.
It’s about both of you, you are really portrayinb your wife as the victim and you as the horrible person who couldn’t just do what she asked but now you changed from that horrible person and everyone should see how wrong you were just like you do. Is this how you make yourself feel like a better person? You now understand YOUR mistakes and you are better now.
How about you see that you were both maybe not handling the situation the best way. Maybe the ordeal created tension and you guys couldn’t handle it properly. What I really seeing here is that your relationship was tested by a dirty dish habit and it couldnt stand up to the test. You guys couldnt figure out how to cope and handle and process it and rather than understanding that you just needed to learn to communicate better you figured “well if we cant even figure the dish situation work how could we possibly make this relationship work”.
Seems you both saw your flaws as obstacles that you had to deal with and as hindrances and horrible negative things that mean you are a bad person rather than just things you could help eachother work on without judging eachother in the mean time.
Let eachother make mistakes and let it be ok. Let it not mean anything more than that you made a mistake. A dirty dish by the sink means a dirty dish by the sonja and nothing else. Its amazing not to have to worry that one mistake you make can cause someone to change their attitude toward you. Otherwise it’s an uncomfortable always on your toes feeling trying to always do everything right and make everyone happy all the time, it’s not the way a relationship should work in my opinion.
Dude. you have missed the entire point of what he is trying to say. I don’t know what it is you do for a living but if your best friend borrowed one of your tools and then when he brought it back he just tossed it in your garage instead of putting it back where it belonged would you find that irritating? Maybe you don’t say anything, but clearly he does not respect your organization. Your tools. Then he borrows another and does it again. This time you say something. Dude. You clearly know where you found it, put it back when you are done…I mean you WANT to let your buddy use your tools…right?
Then he does it again. and again and again…and when you finally blow up and say something he blows you off and tells you how stupid it is to want your tools back where you had them. What an idiot you are to get mad over something so dumb! Good grief, just pick it up off the floor and put it back your damn self.
Do you feel respected? Do you feel like this “friend” does not give a fuck about how you keep things? Do you see? it is not about how your friend feels or thinks or what he thinks is important but about the disrespect he shows you EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. he gets the opportunity and then to top it off blows you off and tells you what a pussy you are for whining like a bitch just because you can’t find that socket set you paid big bucks for.
Yeah..it’s like that.
Excellent manalogy.
Its a terrible manalogy. Matt’s situation is not clear but there are many posters whinging about the dish/cleaning issue in their own lives when by their own admission they are the homemakers and the partner is the breadwinner or at least they earn substantially less.
A better analogy is that you and your mate work at and co-own the same company, you are the mechanic and he is the cleaner and he gets mad and wants to wind up the company because how dare you expect him to clean the tools. You should do the mechanic work and clean the tools apparently because otherwise you are disrespecting him. Maybe winding up is not such a bad idea in those circumstances
You know I used to work with this young woman. She was always at least 5 minutes late to work. Now I understand that stuff happens and sometimes you just might be late. I get it. But EVERY. SINGLE. DAY??? No this is not just stuff happening anymore. This is a much bigger problem. See if she didn’t come to work on time (preferably a minute or two early actually but w/e) then I didn’t get to go to lunch on time or leave on time, whichever shift I happened to be working. Now I don’t know about you but I started to get upset by this fairly quickly. I like to be on time wherever I go. I do not like to have people waiting around on me, it’s not a good look and people don’t like to be kept waiting. Well neither do I. So I told her ( I was her boss btw) not to let it happen again. What do you think happened? If you were going to say she kept coming in late then you are correct! Well I stopped having a blind eye to all the other things that she was doing that she shouldn’t have been and she was let go. I probably would have had more patience with the other things if it weren’t for her blatant disregard for me and the other employees and consistently being late for work. Respect. It’s about respect. When you keep someone at work longer because you just can’t be bothered to show up on time. Or you leave dishes in the sink and someone else has to take care of them. They are going to get fed up. Because if you are being disrespectful in one way then you are probably doing it in other ways as well. It all adds up to a big fuck you. I don’t care. I’m more important than you are. Who’s going to put up with that forever?
It is frustrating isn’t it. I have to say Matt has much more patience in trying to explain it than I would. I feel sorry for them.
Thank you.
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This is just childishly stupid. And there’s more to this marriage than a glass by the sink. Hell we don’t have a dishwasher. We wash our own dishes. Or get the kids to help. Grow people . It’s not all ways about who is right or wrong or looking so deep into something so small …. Live happy. Smile
Yet another person who thinks that a dish is just a dish. Even if multiplied by hundreds. Even when the person who didn’t wash it, or put it in the dishwasher spent the day sitting at a desk, then the evening sitting in the lounger, while the other came home from a job and wrangled kids, housework and dinner making.
Things grow in significance as they are ignored. As they come to stand for other, more painful things that are harder to verbalize.
A dish is NOT just a dish, David.
A dish is definitely just a dish…. now if someone is not doing their fair share of chores etc and lays around most of the time and wont even wash the one dish then that is understandable to be frustrated. But if someone is in a hurry to work and they end up leaving/forgetting about the one cereal bowl they used in the morning, they should be able to leave it there without being worried itll be interpreted as they dont love their wife anymore.
This sounds like sensationalism: A new problem has swept America that is ruining families!! Husbands who leave their dishes by the sink. Do you have one of those? Well thats what we are going to be talking about here today.
Gotta keep our focus on what matters huh cus woooohh it’s such a biggg dealllll. “Well if you were the one coming home to the cup by the sink after a long day of work you would give yourself a hernia over it too” Actually I would just laugh understanding that some people have habits and tendencies and I can laugh at them and accept them rather than judge them and rescind my love for them over something so nominal.
But hey if you want to make a thing about it go ahead. Americans seem to care so much about the things that really dont matter and so little about the things that do. If you cared enough for your husband you would be able to look past his cup by the sink habit, then maybe he would see how much you care and decide he cares too.
But if you judge him over it and show that a cup means more to you than him then maybe he will decide the same and keep leaving them by the sink until you realize what truly matters. Of course there are extremes where the person is overall lazy but I’m talking about only a dish by the sink. ITS JUST A DISH.
I write for you, Patrick. Very specifically. And I’m failing.
I’m sorry. I hope you make the connection some day. It will help the people you care about.
What you arent understanding is that their are more dynamics to this interpersonal conflict than you might realize. I am sure it feels good to think you now have it all figured out and you are now on the right side of things but realistically there is much more to it than “she cares about the dish I care about her therefore I care about the dish or I’m a bad person” there are many things that people care about that I dont and i should not be made to feel like a bad person because of that.
Now if they stopped making it an obligation and commandment and rather let me change my habits out of actually wanting to make the other person as comfortable as possible that is different. But for the other person to judge me and assume I’m a bad person and put the ultimatum “it’s me or the dish” that’s a fucking joke and sounds more like a militant approach rather than a couple working out their differences because they care about eachother.
Perhaps compatibility is the main issue in that circumstance or maybe some people are being a bit inflexible and want everyone to do thing their way to feel content in their relationship. How about you focus on the positive traits of the individual and stop judging them and hawking them over a tiny flaw.
You are showing disdain for people who have not come to the wonderful light that you have. Disdain does not convince people to change but rather creates aversion. Nobody want to be around someone who judges them and assumes they are a bad person because of a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes and not everybody is scornful about it, some people like to live and let live.
Patrick. This isn’t for you. That’s okay.
Let me tell you what this is for, as the person who wrote it.
I believe the average guy in the average marriage accidentally hurts his wife all of the time.
Not annoys. Not frustrates. HURTS. Painfully.
It’s not one thing; one thing that could be easily fixed.
It’s always a thousand things.
And what they all have in common is that there was a moment that really mattered to the emotional health of one spouse and played a role in determining their future divorce, but the average guy had NO IDEA.
None.
He’s not a bad guy. Most guys aren’t bad guys trying to hurt their wives.
They’re good guys who accidentally do.
And because they’re accidentally doing it, the literally DON’T KNOW what is hurting their wives and marriage.
Do you not see the danger there?
How can a man succeed in marriage if he doesn’t even know what is or is not harming it?
The average guy does what you just did.
What I did in my marriage.
We minimize. Deflect. Say that something doesn’t matter because we don’t think it does. And we’re certain — totally certain — that we’re right.
And if we’re right, they must be wrong.
No one learns anything. Nothing changes.
Marriages fail. Hard.
Maybe you don’t care. This isn’t for you, after all.
But I KNOW that some other guys care because they write and tell me about it.
Men lose their wives and they never understand how or why. They never could have stopped it because they never even knew what to watch for, or to even ask the question.
Men, everyone really, must start asking the right questions.
A story about a dish causing divorce prompts some of those right questions.
Because it’s not about the dish. It never was. And it never will be.
yes… and the average women also hurts guy, accidentally, unconsciously, or selfishly, all the same time. She is not ME. I am not HER. dish by the sink: what, a metaphor for a much deeper injury? well okay. i think a lot of people are missing the metaphor then. my issue with my girlfirend is that i don’t feel like she actually LISTENS to me, and doesn’t show any sympathy, empathy or understanding of my feelings – even if i’m telling her how deeply i love her and how attractive she is to me. i could turn it into a metaphor and say we always get what she wants when we eat out. if i say “burrito would be nice” she overrides and gets the enchilada she likes for us. and i’m paying. so yeah, i could make that the metaphor for why i’m leaving her. but that’s not authentic…. it would be authentic to say i left because my feelings, interests, ideas, ways were not listened to, accounted for, accepted or received. the dish by the sink, or the dinner choices aren’t even worth bringing in to the discussion, except if asked for examples, small – like dinner..
Dude seriously think about whether you ever want to get married or not. We live in a society that tells women that in relationships it’s all about them and that they really don’t have to do anything accept be women. I very rarely see a case where I can honestly say that the woman does a lot for her husband. This guy posts abut him being a shitty husband but his ex sounds like a pretty shitty wife herself. She was probably a real nagging, emasculating, nightmare to be with and Matt should count himself fortunate to be rid of her. He probably should have kicked her to the curb a long time ago and it’s a shame that more men don’t do that. Unfortunately the laws make it hard for us too. I think marriage would be a lot better of men demanded as much from their wives as their wives do of them and fully be prepared to walk if they either can’t or won’t step up.
” Everybody makes mistakes and not everybody is scornful about it, some people like to live and let live.”
Is someone holding a gun to your head and making you read this? Do we need to send help? Can you send us a message if so? I feel as if you are trying to tell us something. I can’t imagine why someone would spend so much time reading and responding to something he feels this way about unless forced….
But you go ahead an continue to be self-righteous just like your wife has taught you. Keep up the good behavior 😉
We can have a humility contest if you want, Patrick. You just ooze all kinds of it.
You’re being intentionally thick. For the partner who is always the one who has to rinse and put away the dish, it probably seems like nothing, but there are a lot of other petty comparisons to be made that should convey the point. How would you feel if your wife randomly came up and stuck her pinky finger up your nose? Once would be pretty weird. 3x a day every day might be a dealbreaker, because _who the fuck is immature enough to do that?_
LOL that’s just the best! Thank you for that ?❤️
…Wow – what a great post! Thank you so much for sharing these thoughts!
I just don’t care anymore. After 20+ years of marriage, it is just not worth the effort anymore. I am focused on my kids getting through uni and grad school. I focus on my relationship with them: how to tell one another if we have been hurt by an action or careless words. How to make it better, and mean it. They will be much better spouses than my husband could ever be. My husband and I are not always together due to our respective careers. I have always had the majority of time with the kids, which I thought was unfair when they were younger. Now I am grateful, as I had much more influence on how they developed emotionally and intellectually, and how they learned to form their relationships with friends and sig others. They are smart, educated, stable, happy, socially confident near-adults now. It was all worth it. My primary goal in life was for my children to grow into productive, happy, caring, involved people. So, upon reflection, I am glad I had more influence. They have not grown up like their father. I don’t think he is capable of understanding what he missed, and is still missing. So be it. I pity him.
Which does not make for a great relationship, particularly in the bedroom. Again, i just don’t care enough anymore. For years and years I tried to make it interesting, try new things, buy lingerie, light candles, etc. blah blah blah. After giving up, as I got little interest in what I might want, or discussing what I want. Now, he is vaguely aware something is amiss. He once asked years ago, what he can do to make our sex life better – I responded: Take the garbage out. After preparing him a nice dinner, which he ate in front of the computer, after I cleaned up the dishes, put the kids to bed, answered our our emails (other parents, teachers, dr appointment reminders, birthday party invites, work stuff, etc.) if he had just taken the trash out, it would have helped enormously…but he didn’t, even after I asked with a please. And just before I went up to bed, alone, as he was still sitting by the computer…I saw the dirty beer glass next to the sink. It’s not about the dirty glass, or dirty dish – it represents the tip of a terrible iceberg of unmet needs. And articulating them, over and over again, doesn’t help. He simply is too lazy to care about me or much of anything that doesn’t have an immediate painful consequence. And going up to bed alone, and seeing the toilet seat up, and yellow all over it…well sex is definitely out – for days, maybe more. Garbage in the kitchen and piss on the toilet seat are complete turn-offs. Not only do I not feel cared for, not feel sexy or specifically desired, but I feel less than any unpaid servant. I have taken to photographing the glasses and dishes left by the sink, and I have a Google pic file full of them. I look at them whenever I feel like I should do more to help improve our relationship – these pics help me balance my desire to make things better. I am giving him as much as I get from him now – which is very little. But at least now it is better balanced. I feel free to not care.
So I take care of the kids, my work, do the laundry, dishes, shopping, meal preparation, etc…I am his mother surrogate…and you don’t f__k your mother. Sex has become (fortunately) rare, and when we do have sex, I am thinking of the dirty beer glass invariably left next to the sink. When he is finished, I am grateful that it is over.
I have a PhD in a hard science, I pull in as much money as he does, but it still doesn’t matter. Nothing matters except what he feels matters. I am tired of hearing that men are “thinking” about problems – in truth they “feel” all the time what matters to them is more important. If a thought process was involved, my husband would add up all the articulations and demonstrations and conclude that fairness in the doing and the giving in a relationship bring great rewards both downstairs, and in the bedroom. Viewing the relationship through the often narcissistic male lens is about his feelings, his needs, not thinking or problem solving. I call BS on that.
There is not much that can be done for those with narcissistic tendencies – except pity them to some degree, work around him, and live my own life to the fullest. Now _that_ is thinking and problem solving. And I don’t feel bad about it.
I want you to know that I read your entire post, word for word, and I feel your pain, though you may feel like you’ve moved past it. It’s painful to give up your dreams of what could have been and what you deserved as a 50/50 partner/mother of your husband’s children. I wish I could do something to lessen your pain, but I can’t. All I can do is read your submission with open “ears,” full attention, and compassion. You aren’t alone. And please take immense joy in your children. I know mine saves me on a daily basis.
I think you both have it spot on. I couldn’t wait another 8 years to get my kids through even high school. I served my soon to be ex back in February. It’s amicable, and we are doing it ourselves because we are dirt broke. I have $5 literally to my name, and no gas in my tank until this Thursday because he lost his job, which was still barely carrying us through. He moved out to be with his new girlfriend after two weeks of “how could you do this to me? I don’t understand.” He barely sees the kids. It’s been a blame game extravaganza, and I won’t rise to the bait. My kids and my sanity are my priority. When it came to the point of “who gets the bullet? me or the marriage?” I knew I could not leave my beautiful children with that legacy and this monster. He is gone. He is happier, I am happier, my kids are happier. I will rise again, and fight for everything. I am exhausted, I am broke, I am furious at my life, I am lonely, but ultimately I have faith that the right things will happen for me and my kids.
And you know what? He came over to mow the lawn yesterday – he still has some skin in the house selling if he expects 50% of the proceeds after it’s gone – and came in to get a drink of water after. No problem. Still his house. The kids and i keep it tidy, all the time because I want to be ready in case a fucking realtor (another story all together) needs to come and show it. He drank the water, said bye to everyone and left. And the glass? Was right. next. to. the. sink.
I am making the right choice.
“After preparing him a nice dinner, which he ate in front of the computer …” For me, that’s the killer point here. There’s no way this is about the dinner – the dinner is simply the symptom of something much greater. Everything else in your list could be put down to tiredness or laziness, but this is lack of respect and hurtful behaviour pure and simple.
When I went through a period of working myself into illness, and almost to the point of a breakdown, I still sat down every day with my wife to eat the dinner she had lovingly prepared for me. She had taken on all the tasks I no longer had time for but still cooked lovely meals for me every single day. I loved her, so why would I not want to spend 30 minutes sitting down with her, enjoying her beauty, feeling her love, hearing about her day, and eating amazing food? It was a short but lovely break between getting home from the office and having to work the rest of the evening at the computer. It involved no effort on my part. It was restful. The idea of eating that dinner away from her at that computer would have struck me as crazy.
I have been struggling with the dialogue on here between Patrick Langston and Matt. I came to this site because of Matt’s article about the glass and I agree with his perspective, but I have also found myself understanding some of the points behind some of Patrick’s comments. I side with the view that it’s not about the glass, but that doesn’t always seem to fully address Patrick’s points. But this point about your husband not eating dinner with you knocks it on the head. Perhaps the principle would have been clearer from the start if Matt’s original article had used this example. (How wonderful the benefit of hindsight is!)
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So it’s really upsetting to read this. You keep saying things like “it’s not about the glass ***for her***” — something is that is completely fucked up to say.
The thing is, this isn’t about it being “for her” — this wasn’t a noble sacrifice that you missed out on. It wasn’t a perception difference between you and her.
What it was is that you were too busy wanting to be right, and it was more important for you to be right than it was for you to not cause her emotional and psychological pain.
Stop couching it in cute little terms about how you and she “saw things differently” and try some honesty: You willingly continued to be emotionally abusive to her well after you knew how important it was, to the point where you showed her through this and other actions that you did not value her emotional or psychological health as a person at all, not if it meant that you could win a petty argument like a child demanding to have their way.
It’s real cute that you’re trying to make yourself look like the good guy here, all learned and wiser now, that you “understand” what happened, but really all you’re doing is displaying what a disgusting fuck you still are. Your inability to take true accountability for your actions will always be your downfall as long as you refuse to actually grow as a person and move past it.
Wow.
Tell me how you really feel.
?
MBTTTR is absolutely correct when he says it’s a trust and respect thing. Leaving the dirty glass by/in the sink is also making work for the one who does the dishes primarily in the house – typically the woman. Putting it in the sink is absolutely unnecessary in this day and age of the best ever dishwashers – it adds an extra step – makes unnecessary work. My children put their dishes in the dishwasher. What is the logic to adding an unnecessary step to the process of cleaning the dishes? This is highly illogical, and if there is no good intellectual reason for this behavior, then perhaps there is an emotional reason for it. Perhaps it is that not only is the offender forgetting or ignoring the responsibility of cleaning up after himself (ie. putting the dirty dish in the dishwasher directly), but he may have an unspoken need to feel like someone is willing to clean up after him. Ruling our that he sees me as his slave, then this is immaturity. Perhaps the underlying question is why do so many people (many men) need to have someone clean up after them to feel loved/validated/important??
Matt, very interesting article. I feel for you. I think you have it way wrong and will continue a life full of pain and failure with women. It’s like you are doubling down on the exact thinking and behavior that most like pushed your wife way. What books have you read on the subject? I’d love to trade notes sometime as we’ve both went through similar situations but arrived at very different conclusions.
You’re welcome to chat anytime, John. I’m mostly around. Traveling tomorrow evening (EST) so I’ll be MIA for a stretch, but just start a conversation, and we’ll have it.
Appreciate you reading.
Hey Matt, I just sent you an email. Let me know if you didn’t receive it.
I’d like to hear your perspective as well, it seems there are a lot of people who think they have the other perspective all figured out without even giving as much as a second thought to entertain the possible value of that other perspective.
Most women give years and years of thought to the male perspective; it’s the default. I remember being 14 and telling my best friend it was OK that her boyfriend was watching weird-as-fuck porn because it’s normal and just what boys did. I regret that deeply now and I wouldn’t give that same advice today. Male supremacy is the default, dude. You’re just mad because women are getting wise to it.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. And I read “the art of the deal”
I don’t believe for a second that this isn’t the dumbest thing you’ve ever read. But I’m super-into hyperbole, so I get it.
This comment made me laugh all night. I kept repeating it out loud to my friends every hour or so, and then we’d all laugh again.
So, thanks for that.
What sort of idiot reads a business book written by someone who had 6 businesses that went bankrupt?
Maybe you’re just a slob. Sometimes it IS just about the dirty dishes. Men seem to want a another mother, not an equal partner. Why can’t you just clean up after yourself? Were you never taught manners?
You have so much wisdom to give to others. That is the thing about wisdom, you don’t get it unless you go through experience with something. I am sorry you went through everything you did, but from where I stand, you have come out a stronger and wiser man that will make another woman very happy one day. To me that is a success story, regardless of your divorce. You really have cleansed your soul in a sense, by simply reflecting on your life in such a profound way and figuring out what you did and what you could have. Now I hope you will see you have become a sage for others.
I shared this to my husband and I hope many more men get a chance to take your gift of knowledge you offer up so freely.
Thank you for being a lightworker on this planet when others choose to spread darkness.
❤️
No, he hasn’t cleansed his soul, he’s committed to become something he’s not. He’s decided that he has to become a servant to someone else’s will because they won’t bend to accept him for who he is. That’s not love, and even though he may not see it now, in the end it’ll be him that ends up resentful.
This article is pretty interesting. I do think getting mad about one glass is a little much. But I do not want to be expected to cook, and clean, and work full-time, and have kids, there’s no way. Yes, I will break things off with a person who expects me to do the majority of the chores. I will also test a guy to make sure he tries to help out and doesn’t blame the woman in the relationship if a house is too messy. Because of this, my boyfriend is excellent. I *want* to cook for him and do things for him bc he helps me too. I would urge a woman to test for this exact problem before she marries a man bc it is way too common.
I think leaving one glass next to a sink is not a big deal. But I have definitely broken up (more than once) with a guy because I knew I would be expected to do the majority of the domestic chores . Women should test men fot this problem before they marry them and don’t be afraid to break things off if someone is acting like a child. I have a great boyfriend who I *want* to cook for and do stuff for.
I’ve read through this article, and I’ve read through these comments, and frankly I can’t believe what I’m reading. There’s a highly feminist angle, backed with commentary saying if you don’t agree with it than you’re a horrible person. Well, I’m sorry, reality sucks and this article is a crock of B.S.
This whole article has been written from a standpoint of a grieving man who loved a woman unconditionally, and she turned on him because she couldn’t tolerate his failings. It’s a man who’s regretful about not changing who he was, and a woman who has self-esteem issues.
“I’m grateful for another opportunity to demonstrate to my wife that she comes first and that I can be counted on to be there for her”. This isn’t reality. Being there for someone isn’t changing who you are into what they want you to be. If you love someone you love them for who they are, with all their faults and failings included.
Let’s get down to reality here. Facing (almost) this same situation as the article I know exactly where this guy is coming from. Yes, maybe I left some dishes on my desk which I would clean up a day or so later. Yea, maybe I put something in the sink instead of the dishwasher because I was tired and not thinking at the time. Yea, maybe I let the grass grow a couple days longer than I should have. Does that mean I’m a bad person? Does that mean I don’t respect women? No, that’s a crock of BS. It means I’m just your average person, flawed and imperfect. I didn’t do these things to spite my fiancée. I didn’t do these things out of disrespect. What’s truly disrespectful is going to someone and saying, “If you really love me you’ll _____”, because you already know you’re asking that person to be something they’re not.
Women who expect their men to be these infallible creatures of myth, who can work full time labor jobs and then come home and be a superman around the house and a romantic 24/7, really need a reality check. I work a hard job for shit pay and half the time when I get home I want nothing more than to fall apart. My knees hurt from getting down and up from the floor all day. My back aches from lifting 25-50lb loads all day. My feet are sore from walking over 15000 steps between 8 and 5 while wearing work boots. My shoulders hurt from working over my head. Do I stand around and complain about it? No. But when I get home the last thing I want to do is go out to the garage and fire up the lawn mower or grab the vacuum and clean the whole house. I save that stuff for the weekend. She, on the other hand, lets it fester inside her until it finally got done, as if I’m not doing it just to spite. It’s absolute bull.
What this article really comes down to is tolerance, or rather a lack there-of. THAT is where the failing truly is. There was a book out some time ago that a lot of women once took to heart called, “Don’t sweat the small stuff”. Now, I’ve never read this book, but to me a cup on the counter is small stuff. Letting the lawn grow for 2 more days is small stuff. If that stuff drives you crazy then you need to ask yourself why, because it’s not that important. These are not life or death issues. Hell, they’re not even inconveniences. They have absolutely NO control on your life. If you feel disrespected because someone leaves a glass sitting on the counter, you have some self-image issues you need to work on. Your husband isn’t thinking, “Screw her, I’m leaving this here and if she doesn’t like it then she can kiss my ass”. That’s all generated by YOUR psyche, in YOUR head, and it’s YOUR problem. Your man was probably thinking, “I’ll reuse this later and that way there’s less dishes”
The truth is, if you can’t tolerate someone else’s minor flaws then you shouldn’t be entering into a relationship to begin with. You aren’t ready to share your life with another person because you’re too greedy. You don’t know how to share your life with them. You want them to come into your life and do things your way. It’s not realistic, at all.
In my recently failed relationship I don’t even think my former fiancee realizes how good she actually had it, and maybe that was part of the issue. I never asked her to have supper ready for me, and she never did. I never asked her to drop everything for me, and she never had to. I never expected or asked her to fulfill any of the typical “woman roles” in the household. Know what? None of those things ever bothered me. I never got upset because I saw a dust bunny on the floor, I just picked it up. I never got upset because I had to make my own dinners, I just made them. I never got upset because I had to help carry in the groceries, I just got up and did it. I never held ANYTHING against her. NOTHING. That said, she fully expected me to fulfill the man’s roles (plus some typical woman roles). I was able to accept her faults, and HER lack of house-chore motivation, but in return she built up resentment for anything I didn’t do or was delayed in doing. I was in it for love, I was in it to be a team, I don’t know what she was in it for.
When we got together she knew the kind of person I was. When I was a bachelor, I’d let the sink fill to capacity before I considered washing the dishes. I vacuumed maybe once a month. I left stuff in the fridge a little longer than I should have. I wasn’t what you would consider the cleanest person, but I wasn’t a slob. When we moved in together I went through some major changes for her. I took on the role of the man of the house, tending to the yard, building and repairing things, taking out the trash, and also worked to keep my messes to a minimum. I’m the reason she has a beautiful deck on the back of the house. I’m the reason she’s got customized gardening planters. I’m the reason she’s got a proper drainage system down the side of the house, and a fence that’s not falling over, and a garage that hasn’t caved in. I’m the reason she could feel safe at night. I took trips with her and supported her when she went to see doctors over her health. I always supported her when she wasn’t feeling ok. I even got into a routine of mixing up her flavored-water beverages every day, as a sign that I cared. If I happened to create any kind of major messes they were usually restricted to my desk in a room that she didn’t frequent, or the garage where the afore-mentioned building projects would take shape. Even so, she still found faults.
It was like no matter how much I changed from my bachelor days, it was never good enough. I could mow the lawn, clean the kitchen, and wash my laundry all in one day. Instead of praise she’d fester over something else that still needed done. The beverage making, which I started as a little sign of love and affection, turned into a demand and she’d get annoyed any time she had to do it herself. I was expected to take her out to dinner, and if I didn’t then it meant I didn’t care. In the end, nothing I did mattered because in her inflexibility she kept adding to the pile of “small stuff” until it was an overflowing mountain.
It came to a point where I just gave up. She had pushed me to a place where I felt that no matter how much I changed, no matter how much I did, it wouldn’t be good enough. She claimed that I would change and then go back to the way I was, but that wasn’t true either. I’d make steps to improve the household situation by trying organize projects and set up chore days, but nothing would happened. She made no attempt to work as a team. It got to a point where I’d wait for her to start doing chores, then I’d join in.
The colder she got, the more closed in I got. It wasn’t about the glass on the counter. It was about the lack of partnership, the lack of teamwork. One person wanting the other to do everything, and being resentful for anything they had to do themselves. If you have a TRUE partner, you know you’re a team. You do for them, they do for you. The glass on the counter isn’t disrespectful. The grass that should have been cut 2 days ago isn’t an insult. These things are a fact of living, they happen, they’re the small stuff. You should realize they’ll get done, but maybe not right away, and that should be Ok.
“The man capable of that behavioral change—even when he doesn’t understand her or agree with her thought-process—can have a great relationship.” Expecting someone to change isn’t loving them. Accepting them for who they are, is. If you have to change who you are for her to love you, she will never love you for who you are, and you will never be happy with the person you have to be.
Thanks so much for your comment. I’ve been following this thread for a while because of my curiosity in a lot of peoples perspectives on this (most are extremely one sided). I attempted to give some of my perspective but as you mentioned I was just told that I dont know how to read properly and maybe if I did know english as well as him then maybe I would understand and agree with his perspective.
You are right on point on this one… you express very well the extremely simple point that I also see it from. The intolerance and lack of unconditional love. You should love someone for who they are not what they do for you. The assumption that I dont love someone because I’m not making sure I do everything perfectly the way they expect shows what they think about me, the fact that they think I don’t care about them and that I’m a lazy selfish person who just wants them to do everything is very condescending, offputting and a difficult perspective to work with when you are trying to connect and communicate on a common ground. This belief would have to be the first to go in order to make any real progress in that type of relationship.
Thanks for your sharing your experience and for bringing reason to a comment section completamente fuori di testa… featuring wonderful and immaculately perfect women who have absolutely NO faults and of course, the stories of their stupid narcissistic men who are ALWAYS 100% to be blamed for everything that goes wrong…
“Expecting someone to change isn’t loving them. Accepting them for who they are, is. If you have to change who you are for her to love you, she will never love you for who you are, and you will never be happy with the person you have to be.”
You’re THE MAN!!
HDoc, I agree with Matt’s perspective because I believe he is right in what he says, but in your case my heart is with you.
No one should enter a long-term relationship expecting the other person to change, to become the perfect partner. If you don’t like what you see on the shelf, don’t buy it. It sounds like you recognised that your partner deserved better than your old single-man self, and that in stepping up to the mark in your relationship you went way beyond what anyone could reasonably have expected from you. And if the situation is as you have described, then your partner did not cover herself in glory and I think you had a narrow escape. You deserve better. Much better.
But I don’t believe Matt’s position on this is incompatible with your situation. His original article was about actions showing a lack of love and respect. It was written from the perspective of the husband whose wife divorced him because he was the husband in his marriage, but he has said several times that his point cuts both ways. It seems to me that it is your ex-partner who needs to read this site, not you.
But I would like to pick out one thing you say: “Women who expect their men to be these infallible creatures of myth, who can work full time labor jobs and then come home and be a superman around the house and a romantic 24/7, really need a reality check. I work a hard job for shit pay and half the time when I get home I want nothing more than to fall apart … when I get home the last thing I want to do is go out to the garage and fire up the lawn mower or grab the vacuum and clean the whole house. I save that stuff for the weekend.” I completely agree with you. That is entirely reasonable and I do not see how any partner could criticize you for it.
But this cuts both ways too. It may not apply to the relationship you escaped from, but a common complaint by women is that they have long and tiring days looking after home and children and then, when they want “nothing more than to fall apart”, their partners expect them to put on sexy lingerie and makeup and become sex goddesses in the bedroom. I get the feeling that you understand exhaustion well enough that you would not be surprised that an exhausted woman probably doesn’t feel like a sex goddess, but it seems that many men do not grasp this. But when the weekend comes around, of course a loving partner would be looking forward to rewarding you for your lawn-mowing skills!
This!!!
So much this. The need to understand the complain cuts both ways. That yes some men are tired after working a full day and being expected to come home and commit to unpaid work too.
But the same is true for women who are working a full day outside the home and then expected to come back to a “second shift” without complaint.
Thank you Steph – That’s the first time a post of mine has ever received three exclamation marks’ worth of endorsement!
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Matt. She didn’t divorce you because you left the dishes by the sink. She left you because when you left dishes by the sink it meant that she would have to clean up after you. You didn’t have the basic consideration to understand or care about this. You treated your wife like a maid and you don’t even realise that. You are an idiot. Your wife left you because you are an idiot.
Nice try, D.
I did the majority of the cooking and grocery shopping. Was my wife treating me like a maid?
She did the VAST majority of the laundry through the years. But that never bothered her. Does doing laundry feel less like maid work?
I’m sorry you don’t get it. I hope your feelings aren’t hurt or anything. I think if you try again, you might get there, and then you can participate in the conversation rather than be the dickhead kid in the back of class asking disruptive asshole questions looking for cheap laughs from their friends.
Ok. Point taken (albeit begrudgingly, because my wife sent this to my facebook CLEARLY to illustrate her point). I just have one lingering question. Why is the man the one who’s expected to change? I’ll continue to adapt and sacrifice for her because I vowed before God to do so, but is it really too much to ask for the wife to learn to control her emotions; to let her trust for me over the important stuff (kids, finances, religion) override the irrationality of the trivial? Can’t we at least meet in the middle? Or am I out of line, here? I’m asking sincerely.
Hey Mitchell.
I love that you asked this question.
It’s THE question, right? This is the question that decides the fate of most troubled marriages.
And my response to you is the same as I would have had to myself 10 years ago.
For this to work out for you and your wife, you might want to reconsider what is “irrational,” or “trivial,” or “unimportant.”
To a certain type of sociopath, the tragic death of a child, or best friend, or sibling or parent might elicit an emotional reaction you would consider cruel, or heartless. A total lack of empathy.
The hard truth is we don’t get to decide what is important or painful to other people.
You have to have faith that your wife isn’t lying to you. You have to trust her and honor it.
Certain little things cause her to feel pain. Regardless of how rational or sensical or even fair you consider that to be. The truth is that for HER — some of these seemingly inconsequential moments cause her real, actual pain.
If you can learn to honor that, seek to understand what things cause that pain, and then mindfully help her to avoid feeling pain in the future, I think you’ll discover a much more peaceful, mutually satisfying relationship.
I hope you’ll try. Just trying really hard will go a very long way with her.
It’s worth it. To let go of YOUR list of right and wrong and true and untrue, and let her have her own list. And then HONOR it because she’s your wife.
Your agreement is not required for her to feel it. She’ll feel it no matter how strongly you disagree or disapprove.
And bottom line, good husbands don’t carelessly and negligently do things to hurt or dishonor their wives.
Once you know something hurts, it becomes our responsibility to stop doing it.
So much changes for the better when we make the choice to stop trying to govern other people’s different, but very real life experiences.
Rooting for you both.
Well, if by “the kids” you mean that you take an active role in raising them, which includes such things as teaching them to strip the sheets off their beds, do dishes, scrub a bathtub, etc, so that they can grow into independent adults, then you’re probably doing great.
It’s a mistake that men sometimes make, assuming that it’s emotion, rather than a realistic sense of justice, that causes their wives to object to being assigned, by default, the maintenance of the day to day running of the household.
A convenient mistake, at that. To assume that asking for some equity in the day to day is irrational, while YOU are the rational one, does nothing for your relationship, and everyto breed resentment. And resentment, I promise you, can kill love so that it CANNOT be revived.
It was the chief cause of my 30+ year ago divorce from my alcoholic, self centered ex.
This. ALL OF THIS. It’s so true. I tried for 10 years to communicate with my husband to tell him that I needed more from him…more help around the house, more help with the kids, more alone time (b/c I don’t get it unless I’m at work) to be a less stressed wife and working mom. It wasn’t until I said I didn’t want to be married anymore that he finally changed. It broke my heart. I never wanted to say those words.
Did you get a divorce? Were you too far gone to make it work?
Hello, do you think a man can really figure it out without the divorce? Do you think you would have? Unfortunately sometimes people have to hit rock bottom to grow, sometimes even then they don’t grow.
I am at your wife’s point and I am trying to get through to him but I am wondering if he am too far gone anyway. Thoughts?
If he would just take some initiative to do things he knows I’m gonna ask him to do BEFORE I ask him to do so….. Every night before bed I spend about an hour cleaning litter boxes, feeding cats, washing dishes, an sweeping the floors. Then I ask him to take out the trash. More often than not he says I will in the morning….and I finally take it out the next day at lunch time. Why is it so difficult to take out the trash?
I’m lucky that I have a great husband but I have a couple of son’s we are working on!
I have found your writing insightful and will try harder to communicate with them. This will be a very useful tool for their future relationships. I really love your statement that the sexiest thing a man can say is “I got this”. 100% true.
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https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ Expecting your partner to tell you what to do and what needs to be done is putting most of the work onto them, anyway.
This is easily one of the two or three best things I’ve ever seen illustrating this relationship dynamic I spend so much time writing about.
It’s brilliant. I hope anyone who sees this and who hasn’t seen that comic before, will take the time to check it out.
I’m glad someone posted this here. I was thinking of that exact “mental load” concept illustrated by that comic when I read this post. I’m glad it’s still making headway out there.
I really appreciate this article and sent it to my husband to hopefully help him grasp what I’ve been trying to express. I do feel, however, that there is one big flaw in your argument about why it’s not such a big deal to leave the cup on the counter. In my experience, men ALWAYS says “I’ll put it away when I’m done with it.” When the reality is, 99% of the time I am the one who ends up putting it away, sometimes 3 days later because I’ve been trying to wait him out to see if he’ll actually follow through. It’s not the glass on the counter, it’s the history repeating itself over and over and over again again, proving that he is not reliable or thoughtful.
I think you just helped me figure out why my last several relationships didn’t end up working out (being the female in the relationship) and finally my own brain makes sense. Thank you from three years in the future.
Oh, my goodness you just di scribed my life, for 29 years I have been trying to get my husband to become domesticated! At this point in my life I do feel everything describing how women end up feeling.
“Now, it’s a meaningful act of love and sacrifice”
But even that’s not the ideal situation. You’re still seeing it as a task performed to placate your wife, rather than something that’s an integral part of the relationship and home you’ve built together. You shouldn’t see it as a token of love; it’s basic home and relationship maintenance. While doing it with the motivation of keeping your wife happy will alleviate some stress, the fact that it isn’t second nature shows where the real problem lies.
I’d like to make the case that it’s as simple and dispassionate as good habits vs. bad habits, Katy.
A meaningful act of love and sacrifice is a positive motivator to do a thing. Rather than the reluctant submission to do some crap thing your partner is nagging you about.
The goal, from my perspective, is to turn it into habit.
And I hope it’s obvious that I’m not limiting it to “the dish.”
But ALL of these incidents we are all blind to.
Not everyone cares about dishes by the sink.
So in other relationships for other people “the dish” is something else entirely.
How we speak to one another around the in-laws. Being punctual for our partners who stress about arrival times for events and social activities. The brand of apple cider we buy at the grocery store. WHATEVER.
Just loving our partners enough to RESPECT their individual life experiences as being equally valid to ours and then acting accordingly.
I agree with you that it’s not ideal. This life is not ideal. Human behavior and psychology and emotional baggage is not ideal.
So we choose to love above all of it. And for people like me, we dedicate our brains to mindful development of positive habits that reduce instances of emotional pain and negativity and disconnection in our relationships so that they can flourish.
That’s the intended message of this inexplicably popular poorly written blog article. ??♂️
I think there is a much bigger question you’re forgetting here. Before you got married, did you have a conversation about basic thing like, “how much does neatness matter to you”? Because it’s not always about expecting your partner to do housework; some people just don’t care about whether there are a couple of dishes in the sink.
If there’s a big disparity in how neat partners are, the neater partner is always going to do more of the work.
Unfortunately this goes beyond relative neatness. There is a systemically gendered aspect to who takes on household work and childcare. The dynamic persists during the pandemic, when both partners are at home and (in theory) equally able to take care of these things.
More importantly, the emotional labour, the project management of running a household and caring for kids and remembering that X task needs to happen at Y time and ensuring that Z does it, is disproportionately done by women. That’s what’s so exhausting. Maybe your husband’s not super neat, but that glass still needs to get washed eventually. If one’s idea of being “a messy person” encompasses leaving the glass out for days until your partner finally a) nags you into putting it in the dishwasher or b) does it herself so she can also set the dishwasher running and wipe the counters, then being “messy” is a privilege you’re taking that’s paid for by her extra mental and physical work.
Ahh..the ‘mental load’ angle. As if only women carry a mental load.
That’s just silly.
You’re missing the point. It’s not a question of whether men worry about their families or stress over the bills or or schedule the plumber or help clean the kitchen. Of course they do. AND research demonstrates clearly that women manage the mental/emotional labor of the children and the household. As Elle says it’s the project management work. Just the fact that men doing any housework is referred to as “helping” shows that it’s both gendered work and that they don’t bear primary responsibility for it to get done.
My husband is a wonderful father who is very involved with our kids but he couldn’t tell you what size clothes they wear or whether they need a particular type of school supply. We have lived in our house for 7 years and still regularly asks me where basic household items are.
For women, it’s exhausting when you also have a full time job outside of the home and have to manage all the responsibilities of the house, kids and your husband. It feels demoralizing to have to pick up after another adult or to be told putting the glass in the dishwasher is no big deal when you’re the one who always has to do it. It is both basic consideration and respect for the person you live with and acknowledgement that managing all these tasks take a lot of time and energy and appreciating the person who does it.
What exactly am I missing then? That one ‘mental load’ should be prioritized over another? Grow tf up… Wives dont bear any more of a mental load than husbands. PEOPLE hear mental loads, if we want to refer to that model. If you think your husband is incapable of handling clothes sizes or where the coriander is, you might consider whether or not you know when to change the tires or when you need a new roof. Or when to hire a tax lawyer. Or what sort of Life Insurance is best. Etc, etc. Maybe how many gallons of milk a family goes thru in a week might be less of a mental load than figuring out the best way of going about refinancing your home loan. Is it gendered?
Yes.. so what? Thats how it works. Wives, and women writ large, arent entitled to anything, except maybe getting over yourselves. Fact is, the only reaaon you have the audacity to even speak about something as vapid as a ‘mental load’ is because someone else is PROVIDING for you to do so.
Wow, won’t be surprised if YOU are single! ?
he’s probably an incel.
Whooooosh…
Whoosh….
TWC: every. damn. Item. On your list is something that I’m capable of handling. Which is the entire point.
Family roles are not gendered. Both parties should be capable of accomplishing them. Now, granted, I enjoy staining cabinets and hanging new lights more than my husband, and he enjoys mowing the lawn. But either of us can do all of those.
When you decide, unilaterally, that what you do in your family matters more than being considerate enough to put your damn glass in the dishwasher, your marriage is over. Because you’ve decided that simple courtesy is beneath you.
I’m not sure your hypothetical division of labor is indeed reflected in the “real world,” but even if it were, you are still missing the basic point. One decides on a tax lawyer once a year (and less often, if one finds a good one); one refinances – how often? Perhaps every five years, at most? One decides on life insurance infrequently (ideally, once or twice during one’s lifetime), one changes one’s tires perhaps once a year (I have no idea, as I drive very infrequently), and finally, one replaces one’s roof every 20-30 years (depending on the roof). But milk, coriander, laundry, etc. – those are weekly chores – as are the other jobs that constitute women’s roles in this gendered division of labor. Having done all these things, I can state with some certainty that laundry, grocery shopping, child care, etc. are a lot more time-consuming that the various tasks you assert might constitute men’s share of a “mental load.”
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always repost. always.
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Hi,
Just want to say thank you for writing this article. It contains everything I have felt and thought all these times… I face the communication challenge you mention in the article with my husband. I have forwarded this article to him. I really hope he is able to understand me afterwards…
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Feeling that a partner isn’t respecting your wishes by leaving a glass in the sink? Sure. Divorcing them for it? That is irrational. No one is perfect and a relationship is about accepting that. My partner leaves dishes in the sink all the time, I wash them. I care about my partner and metaphorically speaking I hope they would wash any dish I leave in the sink as well and still care about me at the end of the day.
Except that it’s not just one glass by the sink. It’s all the myriad other things that you have to tell them to do because they can’t be bothered to see what needs to be done (pick up your dirty clothes, brush your teeth, throw your trash in the trash can instead of leaving it on the table, and on and on). ..and instead sit on the couch playing games or watching TV while you are doing the vast majority of the work. You and your partner sound like you actually share the work and look out for each other. If you haven’t experienced this, be very, very happy, because it’s a terrible way to live.
Heather, your comment just shows you totally missed the point of this post and what Matt explains all over this website about how his « lack of caring » ruined his wife’s feeling towards him. Of course it’s not about the glass itself, especially when it’s not important for you. Like you, I totally don’t care about dishes in the sink, I am much more messy that my man. But when I would be asking one million times about a little thing that would matter for me (closing toilets, not leaving wet towels on the ground in the bathroom, or dishes in the sink), I wouldn’t feel respected. It’s not about divorcing because of a glass, it’s about divorcing because you lost the feeling of being respected. And it’s not about respecting your WISHES, it’s about respecting what MATTERS to you.
Maybe your don’t get it because there are just NO things you care for, that your husband doesn’t respect, and then I am incredibly happy for you.
My man cares for things which really seem petty, irrational, not important (to me), but it matters to HIM, so I try my best to improve myself and take care of those things. I expect the same from him, and I never feel so loved and cared for, than when he cares about things that matter to me.
Yeah, this mentality definitely was a factor in my divorce and I’ll own that. A contributing factor was being made to feel I couldn’t do it right in the first place though so why bother. But I choose to own my response because I could have tried to explain how I was being made to feel and try to change my behavior but didn’t.
Don – I do understand where you’re coming from, and my intent isn’t to insult or offend you in any way, but hopefully offer some perspective, and perhaps gain some perspective from you. There are many instances where my husband and I have this issue; I am not picky at all (trust me, I am nowhere near a neat freak), but where I take issue is that many times when my husband does a chore, it isn’t that his style is different (i.e. folding laundry differently), it’s that he completely half-asses it, and I end up having to redo the chore. For example, if he vacuums the floor (which is very rare), there’s still dirt all over the place, or he say he “cleaned up the kitchen” but only put dishes in the dishwasher, but left the counters, sink and table untouched. But I honestly feel that he purposely feigns incompetence in an effort to get out of doing chores. I’m not implying that is what you were doing (I sincerely hope not); I guess my point is that women shouldn’t have the sole responsibility to bear the mental load of all the household work, and we should be able to rely on our spouse to competently handle these things without our direction. I often feel that I am nothing more than a glorified babysitter for an adult child; I cannot rely on my husband for a lot of things, and it makes me feel frustrated, exhausted, and alone.
Most women they like tidiness and order, and women work with their eyes more than a man.
Men don’t care whether there is dust all over the house or whether a bathroom is untidy, although women do! Why?
Women are child bearers, nest makers like birds they like to keep their shit in order.
Why on earth do most men throw clothes on a floor? Would you throw an expensive Armani Suit on the floor?
Well I feel it’s a dominant thing and a territory thing, it’s like when a dog pees on a tree or a male cat that sprays.
If you can understand all that then great, that’s good.
So if some men keep behaving like animals then just treat them as such, put their food in a dog bowl and make them eat their food on kitchen floor, tell them if they want a shower to attach a hose to the outside tap and shower, but remember at the end of each night to put the Cat/DOG out before going to bed.
Happily married to a man who picks up his shit every day.
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I have to ask, do you have Asperger’s? My husband has that and ADHD and this blog resonated with me because THIS is what I have been trying to get across to him for, well, years. That when he continues to ignore my wishes and doesn’t do the simple day to day tasks, it makes me feel like I am not important and that that he simply does not care. Now, I understand that an Aspie brain is MUCH different from a neurotypical brain, but it still makes things very difficult, even with that understanding.
ADHD, yes. No asperger’s or any other atypical neurological condition of which I’m aware.
Three powerful words… Let it Be.. what do you care about most? Your husband or the house? It may be possible that he feels he is being demeaned as well, some people are sloppy sometimes, sometimes people get depressed etc and they don’t maintain themselves and their surroundings to keep it in the most ideal coneition, sometimes for a very long time.. do you think he feels good about it?…. this is just how it is. PEOPLE ARE NOT PERFECT… Once again PEOPLE ARE NOT PERFECT… Learn to love your husband no matter what. NO MATTER WHAT. Unconditional Love is a powerful tool. It is amazing to know that you will be loved no matter what, as broken as we are we will be healed by love. But if we hold that love away from eachother until we are healed then we have it backwards baby. Wayyy backwards. Love isnt something you hold over someone’s head as a potential reward for them doing what you want. True love knows no bound. Sometimes we forget what love means.. we think it means no dishes by the sink.. we think it means flowers on our anniversary or a birthday card on our birthday but this isnt love..these are things. Dishes by the sink are dishes by the sink and does not represent the vast amount of love that your husband has for you. He loves you.. let him show it without putting so many conditions on it… this is unconditional love. Love drives us to do amazing things and I promise if you show your husband unconditional love he will show it in return, one way or another. The dishes might be left by the sink but when your having amazing moments, amazing sex, amazing unconditional love… the dishes by the sink wont matter when your orgasming back to back it’s hard to think about how big of a deal a couple dirty dishes are. Are dishes getting in the way of an amazing sex life for you? Do you hold out on sex if the dishes arent done? Because your holding it from yourself as well. Is the stress you create from a dirty dish really comparable to the amazing stress relief of an amazing sexual experience with your husband, trust me afterwards he will have plenty of energy to the dishes and come back for another round, shoot he might even start rewashing dishes to get them as sparkly clean as possible for his amazing beautiful wife that shows him love no matter what. You deserve it, he deserves it. Love unconditionally first and trust that the rest will fall into place, why place conditions on love when you can have it all, wherever, whenever, no matter what, EVEN IF THE DISHES ARE DIRTY :))
I’m going to be honest. Nothing turns me off more as a woman than having to pick up sweaty gym clothes from the bathroom floor next directly next to the dirty clothes hamper and put them in the dirty clothes hamper. So no, it’s not ‘withholding’ sex. Sometimes I’m just too annoyed to be turned on.
Well have fun being annoyed and I’ll have fun being turned on. The orgasmic energy of the universe is pretty amazing. I’d rather spend more time in that then the negative energy of annoyance That’s unfortunate you get annoyed by things out of your control. Maybe you’ll learn to let things go that are out of your control, usually micromanaging has things turn out exactly as you expected.
That’s also pretty awesome that your husband goes to the gym, but you don’t focus on that do you? Perhaps you just focus on the things you don’t like, and so you keep getting more of it 😉
It’s amusing and irritating that you have literally no appreciation of the fact that you are exactly the type of person this article is about. And belligerent about it too like it makes you superior in some way to disregard the feelings of others. It’s great to talk about “letting it be”, but here’s the thing, if we “let it be” (the glass for example,) you will just keep walking by it until there are four glasses, and five, and six. It never ends, and maybe we just don’t appreciate having to live in filth because you’re too entitled to pick up after yourself. SO we’ll “have fun” being annoyed, and you “have fun” getting divorced, k?
Right on, sister. Thank you! Most of us are tired at the end of our work day, too. If there is energy to cook, then clean up after that, and deal with kids, pets, to-do’s like laundry and grocery shopping and whatever other daily household things that need to be done, and the house is put to sleep, then someone (ahem, other functional adult) can’t be bothered to clean up after his precious self, that’s gonna get old FAST.
Haha I showed my wife this article and my comments and she completely agrees. Some people care way too much about little things and let it get in the way of loving eachother first. Like the wife who gets mad cus her husband wont buy her that new dress, so she stops giving him attention until he buys it for her. Or she gets mad because hes spending more time with friends than with her, so she stops showing him as much affection because she feels she isnt cared about, so she stops caring, and it creates a cycle.
What I’m saying is dont let material things become such an obstacle in your relationship that you start treating your partner as a lesser individual. There are reasons hes acting the way he is and it’s likely partly because it’s become his identity. Because every day he is told he doesnt care and made to feel guilty and it is reinforced into his identity by you. He does care, but you won’t give him that credit (because he doesnt put away dishes so everything else he does for you doesnt count) communicate, stop acting like a prideful uppity brat, your not his mother and when you start acting like his overbearing mother he will start acting like a dependent child. What I’m saying is that their is a dynamic going on that is continuing the habits and thought processes that are making your relationship the way it is. If you keep going about it the same way you have you will continue to get the same results. When you start to let things go then it takes the pressure off of you both.you can start to look at things from a different perspective and treat eachother respectfully. When you decide that loving him is most important then he will start to do things that reflect the love he feels. But if you decide hes not worthy of your love then he might just decide the same, and show it in his own way. It’s a cycle of negative emotions.
Nobody wants to feel like a child who cant clean up after himself, when you keep treating him this way and making it his identity and not giving him the benefit of the doubt, assuming that because he doesnt do something then he must not love you or care about you at all. This is a perfect lesson in letting go. One day you could just decide you wont let it effect how you feel about him, and you will still treat him like a capable individual.then he might start acting like one.
You might feel that he shows disrespect physically by not putting away dishes, but how you speak to him and treat him as a result can be seen as disrespectful too. Its emotionally damaging to be treated like you dont care or love your wife and if you keep believing it and acting accordingly then that might be exactly what you get.
Or maybe dishes are really that important to the point that you should take it as an opportunity to assume your husband is a helpless piece of shit who doesnt care about you.
I’m in an extremely fulfilling relationship and we are very good at keeping things neat and tidy. But we have different ways of going about things and we dont force eachother to do things our way or withhold love or treat eachother lesser because of our mistakes or bad habits.
My partner and I understand that eachother is not perfect and sometimes we do things that to the other is interpreted as unthoughtful and uncaring. But we communicate and continue to treat eachother with respect no matter what.
We dont get passive aggressive and treat eachother like selfish individuals. We continue to communicate and get things done because we care about eachother and we remind eachother that although we are not perfect and sometimes hurt eachother intentionally or unintentionally, at the end of the day all we truly want is to be loved by one another, and this is what drives us to be productive caring individuals. The dishes always get done, sometimes a dish is left by the sink but one of us will wash it at some reasonable point.
We dont assume that the other did it to hurt us. There have been points in our relationship where I mostly did the dishes, even after a long day of work. I have asked her to help and she has forgotten at points, but I continue to love her and dont let it effect me to the point that I stop treating her with the love and affection she deserves. Sometimes she gets depressed and stressed and lazy and I end up taking up the slack, sometimes the other way around… but we dont read into it as a sign we are not loved and cared about. We stay grateful and appreciative for the ways that they DO show they care. We say thank you and understand that eachother is not perfect. But this is why it always works out, the labor of dishes and housework are shared.
We dont tally up how much we’ve done vs how much the other has done and let it become a gauge for how much we think the other cares or loves us. We understand we all have pitfalls.
We continue to love eachother unconditionally, because a dirty dish by the sink is only a dirty dish by the sink, and either of us can wash it at any point. One of us might be lazy for a period of time but we let eachother be lazy sometimes. At the end of the week we always have a clean house, whether I do most of the work, or she does most of the work, or if its shared equally.
We continue to love eachother and remind eachother of how much we mean to eachother, and we dont let the dishes be the deciding factor of how much we love or think we love eachother.
I have only just seen this old post by PL. I don’t want to comment one way or the other on the exchanges preceding it and following it, but there is a lot of wisdom in these words in this post. I have been the one who focuses on tidiness etc in our house, and who puts much of the work into it, and I have been the one who grumps about things left around the place, and I wish I had seen these words a long time ago. This is an important message. We should all focus on what really matters – our relationships – and only pay attention to the other stuff when we’ve got that bit right. I should have chilled a bit more, but I’m glad to see that you have it right in your relationship.
You aren’t listening. You are fighting the fight.
You argue that dirty dishes by the sink shouldn’t matter in a relationship. You argue that caring about dirty dishes by the sink to the degree that it becomes a deal-breaker is irrational and stupid, thus completely invalidating the feelings of anyone to whom it does matter.
Ring any bells?
This exactly is the problem.
My main point is that you are expecting him to change the way he treats you before you change the way you treat him. Sure you shouldnt have to be the one to change first but someone has to take the initiative or your going to continue having the same experience.
You are so clueless. I feel bad for your partner. She’s just going along with you so she can avoid the lecture. The lecture you left here. Sorry, Partricks’ girlfriend. Get out now or you’ll be doing everything for the rest of your life. I bet he keeps asking you to validate him. “I don’t do this, do I? I’m glad your not like these women. I’m glad you love me even thought I don’t care about you or what makes you feel respected. I’m a good partner, right?”
Sorry, what? I’m speaking as the wife whose husband cares more about and does more of the cleaning labour than I do. Every time I realise he’s picked something up after me or had to ask me to do something, I feel super guilty and try to add it to my mental list of tasks, so I can do better next time. Unfortunately he’s also had to have the conversation with me that this stuff matters to him and he needs me to step up. I do the same the other way around with his time management.
But you’re saying he should just “love me unconditionally” and endlessly the chores himself, feeling disrespected and exploited? Instead of asking me to empty the dishwasher he should have sex with me in the hope that somehow I’ll make the connection and spontaneously do it myself next time? Yeah, that makes sense.
Our partners are adults, not children. And even children are subject to expectations. Unconditional love of another adult, no matter how badly or disrespectfully they behave, is not a recipe for a strong, stable partnership.
Coming from the woman’s perspective here: my husband I both come from large families-he has 8 siblings, I have 13. I discovered somewhere along the way that having dishes piled and laundry everywhere really bothers him. . It doesn’t bother me as much. So because I love him, and I value his mental sanity, Ive gotten into the habit of making sure those two areas of our household are cleaned. Obviously not always. There are plenty of times when he does it, especially on the weekend. But I do it because I noticed it stresses him out, and I want him to be relaxed in our home, not going over to the sink as soon as he’s back from his 12hr shift because the dishes stress him out. It’s just loving him the way he needs to be loved.
Seriously, bitches need to chill… You can always do the dishes later. Isn’t more important to spend time together and on kids than having a spotless hole 24/7. I feel sorry for men getting nagged on and told what to do every second. He is not a babg and if you are a clean freak clean it yourself af long as he keep up with his responsibilites. Here it is my husband doing the dishes like all the
Time, no matter if it is 1 am
Or 1 pm, and somwtimes he tells me if he doesnit think i put it correctly in the dosh washer and damn it is annoying. But we each have our thing and we don’t force one another to do things and we never complain about the other not doing enough and we have two children. Sometimes i would almost wish my dh
Or, HE could always do the dishes later. But he won’t, that’s the point. As for “bitches”, you sound alike a brainwashed one. If that works for you and your “dh”, that’s great, but don’t look down your nose at women who don’t want to have to “nag” their husbands to pick up after themselves (stuff we teach out CHILDREN how to do, but yet are “unreasonable” for expecting a grown adult to do? Okay, sounds legit.)
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[ . . . “She wants to divorce him because she feels like he doesn’t respect or appreciate her, which suggests he doesn’t love her, and she can’t count on him to be her lifelong partner. She can’t trust him. She can’t be safe with him.” . . . ]
Love means to many women that her partner is her soul mate – an extension of herself. She believes that upon falling in love the identities of both partners merge into a single shared identity – the couple as an indivisible new entity. This merging of course happens with no changes to her own identity, which is what makes the man she has chosen to love so special to her. He appears to identify exactly as she desires.
When her partner fails to perform exactly as she desires in any given situation, significant or insignificant, she doubts first his love for her. If love is a merging of identities, she reasons, a man can not have thoughts, feeling or actions different from hers. If he does, then she questions his sincerity and of course feels unsafe, unappreciated, and disrespected. She can not trust him to be exactly what she wants in any given situation. Then, every little thing becomes a issue of testing love (obedience) where noncompliance justifies her continued anger and resentment.
Many men experience this understanding of romantic love much in the same way that the crew of the USS Enterprise experienced the Borg’s attempts to assimilate them.
MANY women? No. Maybe many girls. Women understand that marriage requires commitment by both parties to consider the wellbeing of their partner as equal to their own.
Which is why, if you are the one who does most of the cleaning in the kitchen, that it’s disheartening to see that your partner doesn’t care enough about your wellbeing to even put his dirty dishes in the dishwasher.
I’m lucky in that; while my husband isn’t skilled at cleaning the cooktop or the vent hood, he does clean up after himself.
I used to be married to a man who, on the 3 or 4 nights a month that he was responsible for dinner for himself and our kids (meaning he had to heat up and plate the food I’d prepped before leaving for 8.5 hours in a busy labor and delivery area, wouldn’t even put the dishes in the sink.
I’d come home to dirty dishes on the table, and many nights, exhausted from nonstop work, would stand, in tears, cleaning the kitchen at 12:30 am, so I wouldn’t have to clean it before I could feed my small children.
Note that I used to be married to him. That wasn’t the only reason. But it was one of them.
[ . . . “Women understand that marriage requires commitment by both parties to consider the wellbeing of their partner as equal to their own.” . . .]
Well said, I don’t think we are in disagreement.
One theme I’m noticing with this article qnd comments is that it places men and women into different boxes. At one point you say “men and women have different emotional responses to different situations”, yes, ultimately this is true to some extent but that is because our habits, rationale and values may be different. Women tend to be conditioned to place more importance on certain things than a man might be expected to. Like appearance for example.
Women may care and put more attention into how they look and are perceived by others.
But this could also be true for a man, but generally women do more to perfect their appearance. (Make-Up, Shaving their body, dying hair, fake nails, wigs, etc.) Women tend to focus more on appearance and it is a great way to attract a Male. Men tend to be the pursuer, they usually initiate the conversation. Men tend to be more aggressive and dominant. Some women like strong men to take care of them and the man might like to provide for his partner, to take care of his wife (of course if he is financially capable).
Some women might want to be financially independent and some might even want to provide for a man (this may seem strange in relation to our current societal paradigm)… but their are outliers.
At the end of the day we choose how we want to relate with another, how we conduct ourselves as humans (putting aside gender stereotypes). Sometimes we identify completely with our gender and how society or others tells us we are supposed to act, or how we have seen others of our gender act. For example an old woman knitting is typical. An old man knitting is not seen as typical, we might expect him to be a carpenter or doing some sort of woodwork as a hobby.
But maybe a man wants to learn to knit.. maybe he wants to make his own pillowcase… is he considered more feminine now? What makes knitting feminine. Let’s say he paints his nails, does that make him more feminine? If he paints them black then he might be in a heavy metal band but if he paints them pink what does that mean?
We tend to put things into boxes and assume that because someone or something is X then it must be Y. Let’s say a man is talking in a high pitch feminine sounding voice, you might assume they were homosexual. A “queer” or “faggot”, “gay”, “twin-flame” it’s called in one culture. But what if they had a medical condition that effected their vocal cords and they actually really didnt like their voice because they were far from homosexual. Let’s imagine the same scenario for a female with a deep voice, we might assume that they are also homosexual. A “lesbian” or “dike”, (I dont know too many terms for a homosexual female). All of these words can shape our view of these people and who we think they are and how they might behave and treat us or themselves, much based on our past experiences.
Sometimes we have experiences and we make correlations that might not be completely true, we might do this out of fear, it is a survival mechanism. Let’s say you touch a hot stove as a child and get burned and so whenever you see something that looks like a stove you are scared to touch it, even if it’s not turned on. You may have made the corrrelation that all stoves will burn you, without understanding that not all stoves are turned on or hot.
We might put things into boxes without realizing it and think we have it figured out but it might be assumptions we made from fearful thinking. We are scared to get hurt so we avoid any experience that we have decided might cause it, we place people and things into boxes of “bad” and “good” based on how we judge them. But how we judge, and further how we treat them because of our judgement causes them to react based on our judgements.
If we treat them as bad people and say things that reflect our negative opinion of them then they may act negatively in return, thus affirming our judgements. But another without negative judgement may show their admiration for the individual and in return receive a positive reaction, affirming their positive beliefs about the person and influencing future experiences.
We all have different experiences and different reasonings, our biology does affect our emotions and the way we perceive things but at the end of the day we much want the same thing, and we are all united in one common similarity, we are all humans trying to make the most of what we have and we think just as much alike as we do differently.
Wow… there was literally no value in adding that segue regarding the LGBT community, I can only assume for you to write out those disgusting slurs.
Nothing you have contributed to this comment section has remotely addressed the article, except for the fact that you have missed the point (if it doesn’t apply to you then simply move on) and now you’ve found a way to throw in some hate speech. I guess there is an issue with chores in your house, because garbage collection day passes each week yet you still remain in the home.
Again, so clueless. Stop typing and accept the man baby you are. You can thank you mother for that. I bet she did EVERYTHING in the house too. You and the rest of the males in the family benefitted and will want to pick a woman just like your mother. All the females are taught to pick up after the men because, they don’t respect what you respect, they just do wha they want. No consequences because if we divorce you we look petty and irrational. Typical immature human. Male or female.
To be fair, men don’t marry girls. They marry women who they think understand what you just said – that people have their own identities and if she (or the reverse, he) think the other person is going to become them and do EVERYTHING they wish and want, that person is setting themselves up for disappointment. The overall premise in this thread is that people need to adapt. But there is no way on earth either partner should adapt to do EVERYTHING the other person wants. There are stories on both sides but people have to stop thinking their partner will be exactly like them – otherwise why marry or get together and live in the same house at all?
Of course men marry girls. Just like women marry boys. The problem is that they look like adults. It’s just that they are, at their cores, incredibly immature and self involved.
I don’t expect my husband to put me above himself. I do expect him to consider my needs, along with his own, and to make decisions based on what is best for both of us.
If you actually read the blog post above this incredibly long comment thread, you’ll see that the author is acknowledging that he failed to do that. He decided that what mattered to his ex was of less importance, because it wasn’t personally important to him.
An example from my choices. My husband enjoys driving a fairly long distance to visit a college friend, a couple times a year. I don’t like him. He’s crude, thinks being insulting is humorous and treats his wife like his servant.
But as long as my husband doesn’t follow that example, it’s HIS friend, not mine. He gets to relive his younger days, I get the house to myself. The fact that I truly don’t understand the attraction doesn’t give me the right to dismiss it.
The fact that you don’t understand why a few dirty dishes left out, day after day, is a trigger for your wife doesn’t give you the right to d code that it shouldn’t matter to her.
Yeah, I do see this “merger” phenomenon quite often in problem couples. (Not a representative sample of course). I’d disagree in that I don’t think it is more prevalent in one sex than the other. It takes two to merge. And it’s an unconscious process. Men, just as much as women, can sometimes see their “other half” as an extension of themselves, and wonder what exactly has gone wrong when she or he fails to act like that.
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I’m wondering why Patrick Langston has soooooo much time on his hands to belittle and berate those who are definitely not married to him. Since he has all this extra time he should go out and other couples by assisting the wives who are frustrated by cleaning up.
I personally love how PL lectures us from his completely myopic sex-centered male point of view, classically oblivious to the priorities of the vast majority of women.
You dont have to be a female to go through this same struggle. Women can be lazy as well. I’m not a relationship therapist so I apologize if I sounded like a know it all, I’m just providing my perspective. Every case is different and I dont know you life. Maybe your husbands are just hopeless POS slobs and your relationship are doomed. I wouldn’t know because I’m not living your life. Sorry to have said anything.
No, it was just your waxing endlessly poetic about sexual contact being the pinnacle of relationship nirvana. I enjoy sex, and it’s one means of expressing my affection, but it certainly doesn’t trump my intellectual/emotional needs, and it’s definitely not the end goal.
I never said it was, that was more about unconditional love than about sex. My partner loves sex as well, we have very high sex drives and it’s great, of course that’s not the “pinnacle of our relationshil”, that we be quite shallow. We have deep conversations and connect in many different ways and if we have a disagreement we talk about it, we dont assume that the other is doing something just because of their gender.
That came from my experience of seeing couples who constantly argue and have constant tension and dislike for eachother quirks and behaviors. They stop being attracted to eachother and included is that they stop having sex, I and my partner (female, also not myopic or sex centered) believe that sex is very important in a relationship, also being patient with one another and understanding our mistakes and flaws and not assuming that it is being done to hurt the other or because they dont love us. Now you would probably know what’s right for you in your relationship and if your husband truly doesnt care about you that’s up to your own judgement. I’m not going to say I know your relationship better than you do.
And that is honestly very generalizing of you and very narrow minded to put all men into a category of myopic sex-centered beings, I believe that point if view is quite nearsighted and hypocritical, to generalize all men as such. Some women think they have men all figured out and some men vice versa, that’s where they go wrong. It’s not all black and white… take off your lenses of generalizations, presumptions, and preconceived notions and you might see theres another way to look at it.
The reason I started getting more direct is because a lot of people here seem to be pedaling the idea that men and women are completely different beings with completely different mental workings and that everything women say is right and men are just stupid lazy slobs (because that’s what they have experienced). Im sorry your relationshio didnt work out but that doesnt reflect who I am or any other man. We think much alike as we do differently and if you stop pretending like you have everyone figured out and stop putting everyone into fun little boxes so you can pretend like you have them figured out you might actually be able to communicate and come to some terms and agreements. But maybe youd rather be right in your assumptions than give them a chance to hear their side of the story and actually understand. “From my myopic sex-centered male point of view” you dont even know me woman, and I’m not going to pretend like I know you either. Because I don’t, but if you want to actually have a conversation without generalizing then I’m happy to have one.
And to the person who said “how do I have all this time blah blah blah” theres plenty of time in a day, I’m just alarmed at how much people generalize and get upset when you tell them they dont have everything figured out.
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This article brought back so many memories – Years of trying to be heard, seen, understood only to be met with “If you don’t like it, then leave” – so I did after 20 years. When the movers finished loading the truck, he was crying how could I do this to him – I asked for the thousandth time if he would go to counseling with me – he said “You already made up your mind & I will never speak to you again.”
It is NOT about the glass –
It should be about the glass. She didn’t give two craps about him. She only cares about herself. He should have dropped her for being a dictator. Any man listening to this garbage should really pay attention and see how women do very little for men in marriages and the failure will always be blamed on him. Getting fed up with the bs.
We can talk about it if you want, Mike. Fire me a note if you actually believe what you’re saying here. Appreciate you reading and commenting.
People here are talking about their experiences. Perhaps your experience was that you did not have a contributing spouse – in that case, just reverse the genders in the article so it applies to you.
My experience? Definitely the article, and please tell me how the below means I did ‘very little’:
– sex at least five times a week, even when his hygiene was not good (and I would tell him about this and he would then tell me that I’m shallow).
– actually lost weight and got increasingly fitter after the wedding, while he did not.
– did all household chores, including all cooking and yardwork
– worked full-time and studied for a post-graduate degree in the evenings without getting help with the chores, so that we could have a better financial future.
But yes, please carry on about how women like me ‘do very little’.
I tried many, many times to engage him in conversations about this. I explained to him literally throwing wrappers/garbage on the floor etc was really disrespectful and made me unhappy. He would literally leave the house during this. I explained that I would like to enjoy the sex that we frequently had by him actually wearing deodorant and showing more regularly. These things were far too difficult.
His negotiation was that I should ‘make a list’. If my schedule already involved a 45 hour work week, 12-15 hours of classes, 12-15 hours of homework, the gym AND the chores then honestly the only appropriate reaction to someone telling me to ‘make them a list’ is to feel extremely taken for granted. And so I left.
“And this is important: Telling a man something that doesn’t make sense to him once, or a million times, doesn’t make him “know” something. Right or wrong, he would never feel hurt if the same situation were reversed so he doesn’t think his wife SHOULD hurt. It’s like, he doesn’t think she has the right to (and then use it as a weapon against him) because it feels unfair.”
Translation: He does NOT LOVE or RESPECT his wife because he also is REFUSING to LISTEN to her and is CHOOSING to continue to NOT LISTEN to her and LISTENING IS PART OF RESPECT AND LOVE.
So when she tells him she is informing him and him not learning is him making the point again and again that she is not important to him and he is not trustworthy for her.
That is such a load of garbage. I deal with this crap myself. None of you would be saying the same thing about a wife not having sex with her husband. Marriages are one sided now and if it wasnt for kids it wouldnt be worth it at all. Having to deal with self righteous entitled women that make up things to be worse than they are sounds like a raw deal. Women are killing marriage.
I agree Mike, a load of garbage. Top to bottom. Nevertheless, it would be to your advantage to stop being frustrated by the behavior of self-righteous and entitled women. You can’t change them; you can only change yourself. Your life can only ever be meaningful after you have taken the time to decide who you would like to be. If you want satisfaction and happiness, you have to put in the incredibly hard work necessary to make yourself a better man. You must work with an intensity and commitment that others might call obsession.
A man’s purpose in life is to achieve, as nearly as possible, his creative potential. This requires growth, and growth requires tearing down the established and re-building. It’s not easy and it doesn’t end until you die. There exist limitless avenues through which a man may pursue his creative potential:
Music;
Athletics;
Painting;
Writing/poetry;
Rock climbing;
Mathematics/Physics;
Building custom cars;
Building custom houses;
Building anything (google Sam Maloof);
Martial arts;
Foreign languages; . . . the list is endless. A relentless pursuit of excellence in any creative endeavor will be unlikely to result in complete mastery, but it will surely bring about profound changes in the spirit of the pursuer. Pick one, anyone, these are just tools to forge a better you. Distinguish yourself. Only once you have become master of your own spiritual growth, will you be worthy of a meaningful relationship with someone else.
Your ideal mate will be one who embodies your values and acts on them with an integrity that you admire. You will recognize her only when you clearly know your own values and act with the same integrity.
Should you commit to spiritual growth, you may discover that self-righteous and entitled women have every right to live as they choose, but they don’t impact your life in the least.
What’s your path to distinction?
It’s not a load of garbage, Matthew. Learning how to notice, respect, honor, and then behave accordingly RE: Things That Matter to Your Partner, is the #1 skill people must learn to effectively navigate healthy human relationships.
Ironically, you describe that very thing quite well above. Living an authentic life and valuing yourself and then only letting people in who treat you with the requisite amount of love and respect.
That’s all I’m talking about here, only in reverse. Some people care about things we don’t care about. If we want to have healthy and mutually beneficial relationships with them, we must honor and respect these things they care about BECAUSE we care about them.
It’s not a load of garbage. It’s just difficult for people to behave as if they care about things they don’t care about, or to do inconvenient things simply because someone else wants us to.
But sometimes, that’s what a healthy, lasting relationship calls for.
I’m not advocating for marriage or relationships here. People can and should remain single if they want to.
But since more than 95% of people will engage in relationships that look and feel like marriage, or actually marry, I think it’s useful to talk about things that will end those relationships. Sometimes very unpleasantly.
Thanks for commenting.
I’m sorry Matt, I intended only to empathize with Mike’s expression of frustration that the women in his life are not more like what he desires them to be. I failed to recognize how my comment might have been received by you. I apologize.
When people commit to a relationship without having first fully integrated their own values they tend to make decisions according to their desires because there are generally no other guideposts. There is no central unifying theme in such relationships but there are insecurities, doubts and worries. Differences of opinion are often received as disrespect. Without knowing explicitly what values drive the relationship toward fulfillment one can never know when demands made of us by our partner should be respected or whether respecting them would be detrimental to our own well being. It is not unheard of that certain people feel compelled to achieve a sense of control in their lives by attempting to control the other things in their life – including their partner. Submission to such demands may seem empowering to one partner but it is really diminishing to both.
I don’t think you can do it “in reverse” unless you advise on how to recognize when your partner’s demands should not be respected without having first examined one another’s values. That is why your comment thread is so long on this post.
Values come first.
Hey, just ran across your article, linked it back to here. It struck a chord with me, because here’s what happened. This is a woman’s perspective, oddly on *precisely* what you’re describing. I was *desperately* unhappy in my first marriage, so I convinced ex-husband to go for counseling. This was kind of a last gasp – this was the last try. I made the appointment; we showed up. One of ex-husband’s complaints was that the house was too messy for his taste. I was working full-time with an hour commute each way and paying all the bills; he was taking classes at university and only working part time. But he felt it was MY responsibility to keep the house tidy to his standards. The counselor gave us some homework between then and the next appointment: If either of us saw anything that needed to be picked up, we’d do it. We both agreed to that.
At the next appointment, ex-husband delightedly regaled the counselor with the story of how there had been a glass on the dresser all week – and *I* hadn’t noticed it! I gaped at him, then asked him why HE hadn’t picked it up, taken care of it, when we’d BOTH agreed to that previously – he said, “Oh, I just wanted to see how long it would take you to notice.” I have a kind of tunnel vision; I see what I’m looking at and I don’t see things on the periphery. At that point, I said, “It’s over – there’s no hope.” The counselor asked him why he was competing with me, asked why it didn’t bother him that I looked so sad. Ex-husband stormed out, declared that he would not be returning because HE knew so much MORE than that counselor, since HE was studying to be a psychologist.
We divorced not long after that. As is so typical, the final straw – that glass – was so small, so insignificant, so trivial, but it was simply one more in a series of abuses that had destroyed my willingness to remain in his company one. Single. Minute. More. I divorced him, went no-contact, moved on, married someone really nice, had 2 kids, now here we are, married almost 27 years, 32 years after I left Senor Dickhead.
Good read, definitely will show my partner this one.
Well, you say you’ll never care about the dishes. Let me tell you why -I- care about the dishes. You see, there’s a region of the brain called the Prefrontal Cortex that’s responsible for the willpower stuff. However, it’s not always in use, and instead it’s the other parts of the brain (such as those for habitual tasks) doing most of the heavy-duty. In the meantime, much of the brain is in a use-it-or-lose-it state.
In other words, if my Prefrontal Cortex is in such a bad shape that I can’t muster up 5 seconds of willpower to get something trivial done, I’d be damned worried about the state of my brain. It’s like going up two stairs and feeling out of breath already. So I make sure to exercise my Prefrontal Cortex. This includes, among dozens of other things, putting away the dirty dishes.
And yes, it feels fantastic to have enough willpower to get all the stuff I need done, whether at home or at work. I get all my chores done during the weekday after work, and I spend my weekends on hobbies or outdoors.
I’ve never heard or read anyone frame it this way. I find it both enlightening and valuable. I hope others will too. Thank you, Valerie.
Love it!
When I was suffering from hypothyroidism, I could *see* things that needed to be done, but I simply COULD NOT do them. Upon getting proper medical supplements, I had a much improved quality of life, with ability to get things done. A coupla months ago, on the basis of some blood tests, my doctor prescribed a very small increase – from 88 mcg to 100 mcg – and I found a new source of *motivation*. I’ve been getting so much DONE since the increase!
You often don’t detect it coming on – it comes on so slowly that you feel that you’re just inadequate, weak, incapable. Lots of shame and guilt, when the problem is MEDICAL. If there is something wrong that you can’t handle your life, start with a full medical checkup with a blood panel. Go from there.
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Men are so vilified in todays society, that of course it is the mans fault for not reacting appropriately or “reading between the lines” of his wife perceived nagging. Why would we consider that it takes the effort of 2 people understanding each others subtle cues and emotions to make a relationship work? Because that doesnt vilify the man. What if when the man came home from a day of work, he began acting snippy towards his wife? Should she consider that maybe he wants a thank you for all that he does? What if he wanted to hear I love you? What if he wanted a kiss and didnt get one and that was the proverbial straw that brokes the camels back and he said “you didnt kiss when i walked through the door, I want a divorce”. I would love to see the comments on that article……im sure there would be overwhelming support for the man….yeah right.
I agree with every word of the article, but it goes both ways. I may the the dish next to the sink for the women, but what about the kiss for the man when he walks in the door? Without one, there is no motivation for the other and the marriage will break down. It takes two to make things work, just as it takes two to let things fall apart (in most cases, there are exceptions of course but i am going off the assumption that the majority of people dont want their marriages to end in divorce).
“I agree with every word of the article, but it goes both ways.” Yes exactly. Neither sex is any better at this than the other, in my experience.
Except that the woman (in this eg) has clearly stated what she wants and is continually ignored. The man (in your eg) might want a kiss as he comes home, but he doesn’t SAY that? Why are you expecting the wife in your (hypothetical?) example to read her husband’s mind?
“It seems so unreasonable when you put it that way: My wife left me because sometimes I leave dishes by the sink.”
That’s funny – it didn’t sound unreasonable at all. If you can be arsed to put dishes away, you must be a nightmare to live with.
You lost me at ‘all THE sudden’… FTR, it’s ‘all of a sudden’.
It makes me sad that you feel this way, Nora. I’ve found Matt’s articles to be wonderfully helpful and enlightening. As to your point, you are right, the grammar sites do say that while “all of a sudden” is preferred, it is also mentioned that “all the sudden” is a regional colloquialism, which I’ve heard in the midwest and southern states. It is my hope that you might keep reading and obtain all the good stuff Matt talks about here and in his other articles. It is your choice of course. I wish you all the best, whatever you choose to do.
Wow did I need to hear this tonight. Confirmed why I said I can’t go on like this and was told “but you laid down the rules and I followed them!” I didn’t want to live in a house where I needed to ‘lay down rules’. I wanted to live in peace together and have respect mutually for each other. That wasn’t happening. I choose to live alone. Sad but not as miserable as wondering what ‘rule’ needed implemented next : / Sorry for hurting you but I just couldn’t go on any longer. I choose peace.
I don’t have to understand WHY she cares so much about that stupid glass.
It’s because everytime the guy doesn’t do smh it doubles the work. I was in a relationship for a few years and my appartment was always clean even tho I barely cleaned (I don’t like cleaning, most women don’t).. then after moving in together the dirt situation basically exploded. I tried to ask him to clean and he sometimes did but I hated the fact that I had to TELL him what was the right thing to do.. to clean after yourself like a grown man would do. I didn’t wanna be his mom and tell him smh he should already know. Why would u even wanna touch a guy who lives in such dirty conditions? Why would you find a man like that makes you feel like a mom, attractive? Well anyhow after years together I finally left because I was so exhausted. Simply because I was exhausted in every way you can. There was way too much cleaning to do, the house was way too dirty and he cared way too little about as a person. I don’t need flowers and fancy dinners but please don’t add to my cleaning and just try to understand why it is so important to clean after yourself. Men often think it takes the same few seconds to clean a plate as it would be when you clean it and put it in the dishwasher right away. No it doesn’t. The dirt gets stuck and ut takes way more time. So now I have to clean it for like 20min because someone did not feel like putting it in the dishwasher on time… and this same pattern repeats itself in everything.. and eventually I literally spend hours and hours of extra cleaning each week because the guy doesn’t get it and still wonders what the problem is. Well, the problem us that you make me feel exhausted with your carefree attitude. You make me feel like life sucks. You make me feel like I don’t have time to watch the tv, ever. You seem to have time for it since you don’t have to clean. You make feel like my time doesn’t matter, my effort doesn’t matter. You make me feel like a slave in my own home, just an object.
Wish I could find the pool safety reminder sign from my first apartment:. “CHILDREN ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE POOL WITHOUT AN ADULT IN ATTENDANCE. Similar lesson here. Grow up/listen to the adults in your life. Might work with roomates on some level as well. Definitely not about the dishes.
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Honestly told my boyfriend I am moving out because of this. It’s the whole house. It’s his long haired dog that drags mud in everyday that I clean it. It’s home calling me “OCD” because the floor needs to be cleaned a few times a week do to this. It’s me missing out on a life I want to live because I’m cleaning for hours every week with no help after him and his pet. It’s about the argument and how he raises his voice when I bring this to his attention. He’s otherwise really great. But this… I can’t spend my only free time cleaning ( I’m a student who spends about 60hrs a week at school / in clinic), he works a 9-5. It’s such a dagger in the heart. You wrote about it perfectly. His lack of team work and actions scream “I don’t care about your happiness or free time… I am right and you are wrong.” Pity.
“It’s me missing out on a life I want to live because I’m cleaning for hours every week with no help …”
This is such an important point, and given the ratio of your respective working hours, it’s hard to see how he was showing his love for you. But if he hadn’t been doing any of the cleaning, and had never done any before living with you, perhaps he didn’t see the suffering that was right in front of him. Obviously he couldn’t fail to see it in one sense, but perhaps he didn’t really see it, as in feel it, just as most of us at some time or another will hear the words that our partner (or our children, our friends or our boss) have said, but we only hear the words – we don’t get the message.
When my job suddenly increased to 80 hours a week, my contribution to housework (I had always done the cleaning and washing-up, and some of the cooking) collapsed. My wife stepped in to take it up, but she was working too and I immediately saw the strain that put her under, so I insisted that we pay someone to do what I wasn’t able to do any more. But I had the advantage that I understood that extra work she was taking on. I knew what doing that work at the end of a busy day felt like, and I could imagine what it must feel like when it came on top of all the other after-work stuff she was already doing.
I had to insist because financially it hurt and she saw it as optional. But I couldn’t see how it was optional when it was clear to me that it would eventually break her. I couldn’t see any point in paying to have a two-week holiday so that she could recover from the grind of every other day of the year. I wanted her to have some time EVERY DAY to do what she enjoyed doing.
But more important for our relationship and mutual happiness was that when I finally got home at the (late) end of each day, I was greeted by a happy partner who had time and energy to talk with me and love me. And when you both have that every day, who needs a holiday?
This is why I wish we could all see and feel more of what our partners are seeing and feeling. Not just what they are seeing and feeling about cleaning (it’s not about the glass!), but about everything that’s going on. It would enable us to tune in and to help. Simply because we love them and want to make them feel good, yes, but in so doing we get so much more back in terms of a happy relationship. If banks paid interest at that rate we would all be rich.
I succeeded on that one occasion because I knew what that extra work felt like, but I fear that there has been much that I have failed to see and feel over the years. Not deliberately, but because I wasn’t born with the necessary skills and no one taught them to me. They taught me to walk, to read, to tell the time, to tie my shoelaces and to drive, but not how to see and feel, how to tune in. And until relatively recently, I didn’t even realize how hopeless at this I am. Perhaps your boyfriend could do with some help with this too. Don’t focus on the floor-cleaning – help him learn how to see and feel. If you do that, and he loves you, you won’t need to ask him to clean the floor because he will want to do it for you. Of course, depending on his current skill level, you may need to show him how to do it properly!
Gosh, that ended up much longer than I intended – sorry!
Wow. Thank you for this. It really helped me gain some much needed perspective about my former marriage.
I think the author is still missing the point. Putting your dish away isn’t about respecting/caring for your SO; it’s about finishing what you’ve started without expecting someone else to finish it for you. It becomes a matter of respect when you refuse to acknowledge your behavior after multiple confrontations. Routes directly back to the core of the issue which is simply being mindful. You wouldn’t blow ass in the toilet and not flush it cuz it’s
You think correctly, Jonathan. I wrote this four years ago and didn’t put much thought into it at all. Indeed, the core issue is mindfulness RE: your partner. The total absence of it is a daily reminder to them that they are not important enough to us to consider when we make decisions, both small and large. And that failure to factor them into our decision-making — the failure to account from them and how our actions or lack thereof might affect them — is what hurts the most. That we never even bothered to consider it. And how that’s our routine, default behavior. Every day until it breaks.
I found your blog via the NY Time article today! What a great perspective. I am not married or in a relationship but have male relatives I live with who have the same issues. They will leave glasses/ dishes in the living room, kitchen, etc. without taking them back into the kitchen, leave used-up tissues on the table even though the garbage is only 2 ft. away, not put away opened boxes of food, cut open containers and not throw away what they cut/ put away the scissors, etc. Never mind putting away the dry dishes or doing the dishes. And if I ask, they procrastinate and/or do such a bad job, it’s just better for me to complete it. If they weren’t family, they’d be out the door already. Ironically, one has lived with a very neat male roommate previously for years.
I’m not even a real neatnik, just trying to maintain some sense of order in the shared spaces. No amount of talking, writing down chores, reminders, etc. is effective I sent them the NY TImes article because you cut to the heart of the matter: on a practical level, each task only takes a few seconds/ minutes but having to constantly do it adds up to hours-days-months of my life not to mention it just shows lack of caring. Personally, I don’t care about gifts, physical affection, or words of praise. I just want them to pick up after themselves consistently.
Not to mention someone might have mentioned and you might be aware it’s not just physical tasks but cognitive tasks women often have to carry. I’m referring to things like monitoring what food items need to be bought, making medical appointments for everyone, assuring a budget is made/ adhere to, etc.
In my household, I also contribute a hefty chunk of income so it’s not even about the males contributing more.
Exactly
This was a really good article. I’m happy I read it. I hope to be able to keep this mentality in mind. I am guilty of putting the glass on the counter and you nailed it. I might use it later, it’s not that dirty, it doesnt really matter to me. Your perspective is a welcome one.
Off to do a few chores now…can’t hurt to try to be better.
Amazing. This makes me want to cry.
How wonderful to see you featured in the New York Times, Matt! So many more people will now be able to receive your healing insights. I’m so happy for you!
Thank you. ❤️
Sounds true but difficult to remember. Why?
Because you’ve been you for your entire life and never once has your brain told you “That thing matters. It’s really important. It’s very bad and painful for people to have a dish left out by the sink.”
It’s difficult because your brain doesn’t see the glass (or [Insert Relationship Disagreement of Choice Here]) and trigger the same thoughts and feelings as they might in someone else.
It’s difficult because it happens in a blind spot that I don’t think you’re a bad person for having. You’re just you, and that’s perfectly okay. My failure was in my inability to calculate the radically different experience my wife was having when she saw that dish.
I don’t think it’s “bad” to leave a dish by the sink. But I think doing things (or neglecting things) that result in our spouses feeling disrespected, hurt, unloved, unappreciated, etc. is certainly “bad” if one of our core values is to love our partner and honor our commitments to them — marital or otherwise.
Your brain habitually gives zero effs about that dish.
And the idea I focus on in coaching is getting to know and understand your partner well enough to notice the things that THEY care about and feel, regardless of how little those same things might resonate with us.
If you can choose to be mindful of how your actions and inactions affect your partner, and you can intentionally choose that over and over and over again, then instead of being this new, difficult thing that you have to force your brain to do, you essentially “practice” your way to a new mental habit.
One that considers ideas that a dish by the sink might be fundamentally harming your partner and/or your marriage.
It’s not “hard” because it’s hard in the traditional way. It’s hard because it’s new. Foreign. Something your brain doesn’t do on auto-pilot.
But how can we make adjustments in our personal lives to rectify that? To intentionally choose over and over and over and over again to notice things — not because they naturally catch our attention or pique our interest — but because NOT hurting our partners/spouses is going to be one of our highest values.
It’s only hard at first.
Do something long enough, and your brain says: “This is how I do things now. This is who I am.” And then the difficult thing becomes easy. It becomes instant. It’s on auto-pilot.
Instead of not noticing the things that are accidentally escaping your notice and harming your relationship, you are on high alert for them until considering our partner and anticipating their needs becomes second nature.
Rooting for you.
Yes this is exactly why I will leave mine. He says he is uncoachable. And he would rather divorce than go to marriage counselor ?♀️
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I feel like this is still pretty demeaning to women. I don’t get emotional about what it means, it is truly just about the dish and you being lazy. How will the dish get into the dishwasher when you leave it by the sink? You don’t care about a glass by the sink and never will. I guess you just leave dirty dishes then eventually throw it away? If you eventually wash it, you do care about the glass. My question is always the same, why is it ok to create more work for others to do? How is my asking that being “emotional” or somehow emotionally tied to the outcome? I don’t have an emotional tie to it anymore than a guy does, I simply don’t want to clean up after other capable people, end of story.
Great post and insightful. Hope you find love again.
This is the most refreshing insight to a women’s psyche.
The irony for me is that I do 90% of loading the dishwasher and so get to see the flip side of this: to the extent she loads it, she doesn’t load it MY way. I like things to be organized in a way that makes it easy to unload it (which I also usually do). But guess what. I recognize that I am not “right” in this. There is no objectively “right” way to load a dishwasher. So I recognize this is my concern and I take it on myself to load the dishwasher and, when my wife or son put something in there the “wrong” way, I move it myself. If I care about it being done a certain way, then it’s on me, not them.
It’s not like men are uniquely unwilling to spend 4 extra seconds doing it their partner’s way. The first time the new dishwasher was installed and I showed my wife which part of the silverware tray the forks go, and how to put them there, she literally shook her head and said, “nope, that’s not going to happen”.
Rather than extrapolate from this that she doesn’t value me, I took it as she doesn’t assign the same importance to some things as I do. If I care enough about how I assign value, I’ll take care of it myself. She and I are on the same page about the important things at least. Forks in the dishwasher are not important.
This does not stop her from, e.g., feeling oppressed that her son and I don’t clean kitchen surfaces to her standards or in her way, though.
In my view this is wrong, but not a hill I choose to die on, either. I do it her way. At the end of the day, it turns out that whichever partner is more assertive gets their way. I’m not the more assertive one. So it goes. It’s how life works. Life is too short to have dozens of intense conversations (= arguments) about these things, only to have nothing change anyway, or for change to come at the price of resentment.
This ticks all the boxes for sensitive, intelligent, mature and generous comment on this topic.
Agreed. Now, look at 90% of the 4K+ other comments…and see how they stack up. Is it any wonder why we cant have nice things?
Love it
Some of this is true, but this man is not seeing his behavior. The behavior women hate. She wants a man not a kid. A kid who is self centered and selfish because they are not grown up yet. Some men feel it’s so gratifying to continue to feel that mommy is still in his life. That all the little things in his life are taken care of so he can go on to build rocket ships. But most men don’t ever get around to that. Why? Because they are still fighting mommy over not wanting to pick up his socks. “God, mom! Don’t you see there are more important things in the world?” Yes, women do see that and believes they want to build rockets too and don’t want to waste another second doing what you is beneath you to do. We’re not talking about one glass on the counter here. We’re talking about an entire sink full of dishes that happens after 5 days of her refusing to pick up after you. This leads to no counter space to do food prep. This means the wife’s has to go somewhere else to find food. She walks out the door. What’s the point of coming back. Who wants a child who will never grow up? It is most certainly about respect, but you still don’t get it because you don’t see her as your equal.
This is such a unique idea for a blog.
Really enjoyed the essay about the glass by the sink.
Ok. So let’s just game this out. You start putting all your water glasses in the dishwasher as soon as you’ve used them without letting them hit the counter. Then ….. next time you will hear a
complaint about how you use so many glasses! Or perhaps that you don’t start the dishwasher when it is some undefined level of full. You see where I’m going here? I think compromise is the name of the game. Maybe you have one specific glass – or a water bottle – that she agrees you can leave wherever you want. And it’s yours to deal with – wash, dry, etc. you decide when it’s dirty & when to clean it & where to leave it. She puts up with this one item & you can relax a bit. Other dishes? You deal with them right away after you’re done using them. I know this is past history, but it’s the principle. Both people in a relationship need to learn to give and accept change. It can be fun & playful too! Maybe she gets you a glass with a funny saying on it. Or whatever. Digging our heels in & losing sight of the power of simple compromise & negotiation is the beginning of a relationship losing it’s charm. My 2 cents. Rock on!!
In a vacuum, I agree with you Charlie. But this is my story, and in this story, the wife has a million other experiences that tell the same story over and over and over again:
“I am married to someone who either refuses to participate in the things that matter to me, or he’s simply incapable of ever being that. In either case, I have to choose between the horrors of divorce and sacrificing 50% of my young child’s entire childhood, OR I have to intentionally choose to wake up every day to a life and marriage where every conversation reminds me that I’m not important enough to my son’s father to be considered when he makes decisions. I’m invisible. Unappreciated. Unwanted. Unloved. This is not what I signed up for.”
It’s a very difficult spot to put a human being in, Charlie.
Our failure to recognize that feels just like all of the other things we fail to recognize while we’re busy defending our character and telling our wives just how incorrect their thoughts, feelings and beliefs are every time they share them.
That’s not what love is.
Some of this is true, but this man is not seeing his behavior. The behavior women hate. She wants a man not a kid– kid who is self centered and selfish–not grown up yet. Is it true some men feel want to feel that mommy is still in his life? That all the little things in his life will be taken care of so he can go on to build rocket ships? Most men don’t ever get around to finishing that big project. Why? Because they are still fighting mommy over not wanting to pick up his socks. “God, mom! Don’t you see there are more important things in the world?” Yes, women do see that and believes they want to build rockets too and don’t want to waste another second doing what men think is beneath them to do. There is where the disrespect is. Not realizing women have dreams too.
We’re not talking about one glass on the counter here. We’re talking about an entire sink full of dishes that happens after 5 days of her refusing to pick up after you. This leads to no counter space to do food prep. This means the wife has to go somewhere else to find food. She walks out the door. What’s the point of coming back? The dishes are still there. As is the person who won’t do them. She’ll never build her rocket if she goes back in the door. Who wants to be hobbled by a man who will never grow up? It is most certainly about respect, but men still don’t get it because men still don’t see their wife as equal. She’s still their mommy. And she doesn’t want to play that game. That’s where the rage comes from.
Nice try. You’re wrong, btw.
Your article and comments are spot on. I hear, “Why are things more important than me?”. And now I can reply, “Why are things more important than me?”
This is so good.
Women really are not that irratonal as you seem to think they are. Charlie has a good compromise thought out for the glass problem, but other important things as time spent togeather, listening and valuing spouses opinion, wanting to be fair in relationship and everyday chores – is another topic for another essay. If wife does not get this fairness and consideration in other areas, then glass could become the last straw.
This is completely it, Matt. It is my relationship in a nutshell. Thank you for actually seeing this. ❤️
“I am married to someone who either refuses to participate in the things that matter to me, or he’s simply incapable of ever being that. In either case, I have to choose between the horrors of divorce and sacrificing 50% of my young child’s entire childhood, OR I have to intentionally choose to wake up every day to a life and marriage where every conversation reminds me that I’m not important enough to my son’s father to be considered when he makes decisions. I’m invisible. Unappreciated. Unwanted. Unloved. This is not what I signed up for.”
That certainly sounds like my marriage, except I (the husband) am the wronged party. No matter how much I tell my spouse that physical touch is important to me, she steadfastly refuses to initiate. Maybe once every couple of weeks she’ll give me a hug – that sort of thing. (I’m not talking about sex or anything remotely sexual). But apparently anything more frequent than that? It’s a bridge too far.
Worth blowing up the marriage for that alone? Probably not. But it’s a part of a consistent pattern where she puts her needs far above mine.
“Then ….. next time you will hear a complaint about how you use so many glasses! Or perhaps that you don’t start the dishwasher when it is some undefined level of full. You see where I’m going here?”
Yeah, that is one possible way it could be. That the glass-user, deep down, fears that if they give an inch on this one thing, their partner will take a mile, and they will be “subjugated” as it were. And that fear may not really even have been consciously thought about and examined. I mean, if you really thought your partner was like that, why would you stay?
But the way Matt described himself, as I understood it, was not fearful of his wife in that way, but simply un-awake.
“It can be fun & playful too! Maybe she gets you a glass with a funny saying on it.”
I really like that idea. It has a light touch. It is, as you say, playful, and aware. A million miles from the not-seeing that Matt was stuck in.
You can talk to her. You can have a deep conversation regarding both of your motivations. You can make sure she does not in fact push it further. You can figure out what is important and what isn’t? The point is not your spouse being ornery, the point is understanding why certain things bother them and not bothering them with said things. Read the article again Charlie.
This is great!!
From a female perspective, this is much, much more than the glass beside the sink; In fact, it really is nothing to do with the glass beside the sink at all.
This is about assumed roles and a lack of reasonably fair participation and responsibility and engagement in the domestic aspect of the relationship/marriage. Which leads to questions about the the other aspects of the relationship in terms of consideration, support, engagement and participation – to name but a few.
To use the glass as a metaphor, what then becomes of the glass?
Does the glass get placed beside the sink and then no longer given thought to?
That then leaves the resolution of the glass being eventually cleaned and returned to the cupboard as someone else’s responsibility.
Does the glass actually even get reused the next time a glass is needed or is it just an excuse to avoid the responsibility of the resolution of the dirty glass? And then what happens at the end of the day with the glass?
Wouldn’t we all love to be able to just use a glass and place it beside the sink and not have to give it further thought? Or leave the house and not worry about weather you have a key – just leave that to someone else to worry about? Or even to leave the house and go to do x for an hour, then decide to do something else and 3 hours later return home without a phone call or second thought about family meal times, preparation of food etc? Whose responsibility is it then left to to build a family life?
Is it any wonder then that you start to feel you are the mother of another child? And then you realise you have to start accepting that this is the relationship that you are stuck with – whether it meets your needs or not. And sometimes, you have to love yourself enough to decide that the kind of relationship you want and need is one with a responsible, self-sufficient, considerate adult who has enough empathy to be able to listen and respond to adult communication in a manner that shows the other person is being heard.
On first read, your post doesn’t appear rational. Of course I’m a man so I’m just going to think that. Initially worried about whoever it was on your end of the keyboard.
Yet another part wonders how well you would agree with the statement, “The way you do something is the way you do everything,” because it sounds like you’re using your husband’s performance on individual things inside the home as individual metrics for how he will perform on everything during the entire life of the marriage, how well he will manage the life of the marriage, in addition to the task of raising your child.
I get the feeling that it’s bad for your health overall to equally prioritize each task, things to remember, marriage sustainability, the laundry, etc., and your husband’s fitness for raising children in an equally-sized basket used equally for everything. Everything is not equally important: expecting your husband to conform to your standards when your minds, brain structure, and emotions about things are always going to be different is unfair for him and taxing on you because you’re thinking about The Problem every time you see something out of place, and it sticks, and so does the next thing, and the next thing, and whenever else is wrong, until you’ve turned it into a divorce and you’re miserable too.
Source: Seeing my parents’ marriage disintegrate slow-burn, in part over every small thing my mother considered “not done right.”
Hi Sharif, I can tell you that I am a man, and I don’t entirely share your view, so it’s more complicated than male versus female.
For me, it’s not about evaluating how my partner will perform, nor about prioritizing tasks, or imposing standards for the performance of tasks. It, for me, is about what kind of person my partner is. Are they able to consider another person or not? If I’ve told them several times something is important to me, and they continue to ignore it, without discussion or comment … what does that mean?
I totally take your point about the kind of partner who insists that everything must be done “right”, (which means total obedience). And if you’ve seen it up close, it makes sense that that is important to you. I would trust Matt to place himself, on the spectrum between “she’s a controlling dictator” and “I had my fingers in my ears”. Both extremes are possible, in my view.
Rochelle: YES YES YES!!!!!!!
For me it’s not the glasses next to or in the sink. It’s the crumbs that never get rinsed in the sink, the sink catchers in 4 drains that no one tends to but me. It’s how he never checks his shoes when he comes in from the wet yard or how he wears brand new clothes to do dirty jobs and promptly ruins them.
Even worse: It’s how he would have late nights in bad weather and I’d literally beg for a text to let me know when you’re leaving so I can have an idea of when he’d be home. And he never ever would. And we’d fight about it… and it was always the “same fight” that Matt has talked about on his website. No matter how many times I tried to explain that I cared about whether he was in a ditch, he did not care, he just wanted to please himself and not “answer” to me.
It’s how he wastes money, puts his own biz in debt. Happily we have separate accounts, but “by proxy” I am in debt with him. Everything having to do with money lately is not discussed. He makes the decisions before I even know there is a decision to be made, whether it has to do with his biz or with household things. I want to be involved in these decisions. But he does not involve me.
It’s how we were once in couples counseling and just as we were getting to the “good
part”, (we had stopped the bleeding and I was ready to really expand our relationship) he decided counseling was too expensive and too far of a drive.
It’s how I went along with a lot of the crap I just outlined above, because of my own self worth issues.
It’s how his mother is a little crazy – (a bit on the narcissistic side) and his father is just along for the ride. Honestly the whole family has issues. Siblings that do not talk to each other, no one asks anyone else a deep question as to why, because they really do not want to know the answer. Such poor communication among them.
And now… It’s how he has found religion – that must be the answer, right? (Not for me. I don’t need religion to be a good person and to treat others the best that I can. And if I need an outside influence to tell me how to do these things… ugggh. That shouldn’t be the case.)
And now… I have chosen to be as happy as I can be without his good days or bad days influencing me at all. I did this out of emotional self defense. He is genuinely trying to be better. Sometimes he even does NOT track mud in the house. But just the other day I had to remind him to not be an ass to someone. (I am not his mother. I should not have to do this. It’s an enormous turn off.) He thinks he has changed and he has, some. But I now know that I deserve a relationship that is more fulfilling and enriching. And I am certain my long term future is not with him. He’s not terrible. He is getting “better”. But I am no longer interested.
It’s also how – when asked if he could do little things that would make our household lives easier – he thought I was asking the world. He would bellyache about it like a friggin’ toddler. Mostly he would be pissed because he took it as a right/wrong thing, when I was just saying – “Could you please do it this way? It would be a big help to me because….” That would result in a temper tantrum.
And lastly… it’s how he mumbles. As if I am not worth of hearing what he has to say. It’s not just me. Sometimes other folks can’t hear him too. (I am willing to get my hearing tested.) It’s his insecurities. Usually it’s when he’s talking with someone “in charge”. So I guess I’m “in charge”. But it sure doesn’t look that way from over here.
The most important question not addressed in essay – what happens with the glass at the end? Who puts it in the dishwasher? The key to the problem. If the husband puts it in, but not stright away – then wife could be nagging because of perfectionism. If glass stays till the wife puts it away – you have bigger problems.
Thank you.
Exactly!
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Since you at least commented with something a bit more substantial than ‘incel’, or ‘I bet you’re single …’ I suppose addressing your response is worthwhile. I am NOT missing the point. You are. As is everyone else in this thread who is advocating for this ‘mental load’ angle. Its utter nonsense. And supremely counterproductive, as relationships are not zero sum endeavors. THATS THE POINT!
The examples I gave previous are just that: examples. I can also give a personal example:
I run and own a construction business, and as such, wear many hats, so to speak. I am CEO, CFO, CTO, VP of marketing, HR Admin Officer, VP of Sales, etc..you get the idea. All of that HAS to be done at a level that provides income in order provide for those I am responsible for. It is a 24 hour load…dont even get me started. If I have a bad day, dont meet a deadline/benchmark…I dont get paid. I would say thats just a tad more of a load than that of dealing with the amount of coriander, various childrens’ shoe sizes, where the sugar is, or what sort of life insurance is best. Not to mention dishes, ffs
THE POINT: I do it willingly, as its an understood contract of marriage. Conversely, I expect my partner to be just that: a partner. Not a cop. Not a child. And def not an entitled POS. This ‘mental load’ crap is just that: crap. If 2 adults act like ADULTS, this 4 year old blog post and the several thousand comments regarding it are unnecessary.
Same here, female c-level executive, work about 80 hours/week, and my husband handles the household with grace. But know for a fact that the mental load is real and heavy, because at one point our roles were reversed. It’s not imaginary, it’s a sh*tload of unpaid work that in many relationships is underappreciated and unacknowledged.
I have no problem putting my own damn dishes in the sink and starting the dishwasher, shopping for groceries (cumin vs. coriander vs fennel – it matters), or doing whatever needs to be done when he seems overwhelmed. It’s called empathy and committing to a partnership. I just can’t imagine walking away and telling myself that’s all his responsibility, not mine.
Well said. To me, the wife was not marriage material or doesn’t follow through with her commitments. I read this essay when it originally came out. Nothing in the years since has changed my mind. If I remember correctly, they had discussions about this multiple times. She used this as an excuse. Where is the respect for the husband? Where is the consideration about his opinion? Had she allowed a compromise instead of a temper tantrum, they could probably still be together. What other little thing would justify her leaving before the relationship hit a truly big storm. Where is the compassion from the wife for his point of view. Respect goes BOTH ways. IF he had been a slob like mentioned in a previous post, then she would have a case for being disrespected. But A glass out of place because of how a person wishes to reuses it does not show disrespect. It shows she was being a control freak and it was her way or else. That is on her, not him. Been there, done that. Happily divorced. Self-reflection is good in a marriage to keep everything going well. His compromise was sound and she blew it out of prportion. The self-flaggelation is not necessary and possibly counterproductive.
In the original essay I interpreted the glass on the sink as a metaphor. That is the husband did not care enough about what was important to the wife.
How does wanting your husband to be an equal participant in the running of the household make a woman “not wife material”?
It’s fair to not want your husband to not reduce you to an unpaid maid which is what happens if he continuously leaves things (such as dirty glasses) for her to take care of.
Would you change your role to that of a home life manager and dishwasher operator? Would you leave your important role to do the unseen, ungratifying work at home your whole life? If not, then you must admit these expectations are not easy for most people, being woman does not change that.
When I left my first husband, I stuck an apt poem on the fridge:
It’s your choice.
Help her with the housework
And keep her
Or let her do all the housework
And lose her
Then you get to do
All of the housework
it’s your choice.
Poignant poem.
The cynic in me wonders if he didn’t just think “well, you did the housework for years and now I can find another sucker to do the same. I’m ahead.”
Here is an alternate ending, equally plausible:
And lose her
Then you get to do
Only the housework
Needed because YOU created it
And you don’t have to
Tend to the maintenance
Of HER car, nor
Share the costs of HER
Hair and nail care, and shoes
Nor repeatedly fix the
Overloaded garbage disposal
It’s your choice.
beautiful thoughtful thanx
Wow, the language that you use shows that you still don’t get it.
This post is egocentric. Half of it is defending your opinion that the glass doesn’t need to be put in the dishwasher. That would be exhausting to live with.
“One thing I know for sure is that I never connected putting a dish in the dishwasher with earning my wife’s respect.”
What about putting the dish in the dishwasher because you respect your wife? Not because you’re trying to earn her respect. You’re making this all about you. Your wife was just asking you to stop making her life harder.
Here’s a news flash to all the men out there. If you make your wife’s life harder than it would be without you in it, there is a very good chance she will eventually divorce you.
Most adult women are not interested in being another adults housekeeper 24/7. This is amplified if your wife also has a career. Because even when women work, they still shoulder the vast majority of work that goes into maintaining a household.
Bottom line. Start respecting the person you chose to share your life. If you can’t manage that, don’t expect her to stick around.
I might get it more than you believe. I wrote this four and a half years ago.
But it makes sense that you would take that away from this article, because I’m sure I’d feel the same if I re-read it now. (I don’t read my old stuff.)
This is a snapshot of how I felt in January 2016. I was a work in progress, and still am.
Thank you for reading and commenting. I couldn’t agree more with the thoughts you shared about relationships RE: how this kind of behavior impacts spouses.
It’s not okay.
There are a lot of pathologies swarming around such issues. One classic one is ‘you should help do [x] around the house,’ followed by ‘OMG you folded things totally wrong! I’ll just do it,’ followed by ‘he’s so awful he never helps around the house.’
In other words, sometimes resentment and martyrdom are unconsciously nurtured because they help our lives fit a cultural narrative. Such tropes are potently useful – they can get us sympathy, commiseration, and…an excuse for ending it all. The boorish husband. The petulant wife. The layabout. The nagger. The sexist. The malcontent.
Of course no spouse will ever anticipate every need or want. Of course love should be about a net positive when summarizing all the pros and cons in a relationship. And of course people can ask for change.
Sometimes, though, small fights are picked because deep down she just doesn’t love you anymore. She may protect herself from admitting that responsibility by locking on to a transgression that can justify leaving. As many here have said, it really isn’t about the glass in the sink.
I get what you are saying but let me offer a slightly different take.
When I met my husband he did his laundry and I did mine. Even after we lived together we each did our own. Then we had a baby and I was doing laundry frequently and it didn’t make sense for him to try and fit in his laundry when I could just do it with mine and the baby’s. He had his own way of folding things and so I learned how he preferred his clothes folded and I folded them that way. I learned where his clothes were kept in his drawers. Fast forward 12 years and on several occasions when I was unable to do the laundry, due to injury or workload, He would do it. He would either do just his clothes, leaving me to get to mine and my sons when I could, or he would do all the clothes but only fold his. His excuse? “I don’t know how you fold them.” (my son and mine)
Mind you, his sons clothes are folded the same as his and I have told him that. And I have shown him how my clothes are folded (it’s not much different). If he takes the time to fold my clothes he will fold them the way he folds his. I put his clothes away in his drawers, he leaves mine out for me to put away.
What’s the big deal you say? At least he is helping you out, right?
But he is demonstrating that he is important. If I folded his clothes wrong or neglected to put them away he would be upset. Laundry is MY JOB not HIS. I learned to do what he liked because I care about him. I didn’t say, I don’t care what you like, if I am going to do the laundry I will fold it how I like and if you don’t like it do it yourself. I didn’t say, you should be happy I am doing you a favor.
Not learning how I like my clothes folded, or dishes put away or anything else shows a lack of effort for me. Sometimes it can feel like a person is doing it wrong in order to be banned from doing the job because of it. How many times have we heard the joke, “just ruin her favorite shirt and you will never have to do laundry again”.
It is the effort that is missing. Not returning effort for effort.
Marriage is a partnership and, yes we all have our distribution of labor, but when one partner sees that the other can’t be bothered to alter their behavior in any way for your emotional comfort, your emotions are delegitimized, your value is diminished and you begin to wonder how much less your efforts would be if you didn’t need to put so much towards someone else without return.
Would I end my marriage over laundry? No. I don’t see me ending my marriage for anything other than breaking a vow. But I can see how some women can become tired of the effort when the effort isn’t returned.
There is a difference in a man grudgingly doing something badly and claiming “I did what you wanted, stop bitchng”. That’s not the woman being a martyr, it’s him still not caring enough about her to do something properly.
Dude, no. I am sorry but you’ve still got it wrong!!! We women don’t want you to do the dishes for US! We want you to realize for yourself that doing the dishes is simply the right thing to do! Same with losing weight or same with anything! Don’t lose weight for us, do it for you!! Otherwise we are still your mother! Know what’s right! Be clean, healthy, and hygienic, for YOU!
Imagine being so entitled, wow.
“My way of doing/living/feeling is THE right way and you should know that already, without me telling you, for you own good”
I hate this cowardly way of thinking so much. You want him to have SPONTANEOUSLY a hygiene level, fitness and proneness to houseclean that perfectly match yours…just so you can avoid responsibility when he says he did all those changes for you and ask what you’re doing in return. Just so you can pretend your presence in his life have no impact whatsoever so you’re not responsible for anything, nor would you have to thankful for anything. That’s just hypocrisy wrapped in self-righteousness.
Asking somebody to contribute towards maintaining the household isn’t about requiring them to “spontaneously” match your hygiene levels.
Somebody had to clean the glasses at some point. What do you think happens to all the dirty crockery left by the sink? The magic fairy cleans them.
It‘s this type of wilful ignorance or just pretending women are being unreasonable for wanting their husbands to contribute to household management that is the issue. It’s not about arguing that only her way is the right way. But leaving your partner to constantly clean up after you is selfish and clearly the “wrong way”. It shows that they matter little to you.
Man I thought I was in twilight zone when reading You Hypocrite Bunch’s post.
Lets just be real here, shall we? How many husbands in the world dont contribute to ‘household management’? Ffs…
As has been noted, this isnt about dishes or coriander or soccer practice. Get a clue. Wives arent entitled to ANYTHING. Neither are Husbands. Martydom, victimhood, bullshit…they have no place in a marriage. Maybe if both men AND women realized how much their partners do for them, willingly, this blog could fade into the sunset.
I’ve been telling my kids that the magic fairy does not exist, in the hopes that they don’t end up like this. My ex never seemed to get it. I grew up under the adage “don’t put it down, put it away” and it’s tougher than you might think to get people to change their behavior, when it’s such a simple way to live.
” I grew up under the adage “don’t put it down, put it away” and it’s tougher than you might think to get people to change their behavior, when it’s such a simple way to live.’
But can you not see the irony in your own statement?
You grew up with that adage, not them.
You go on to say ” and it’s tougher than you might think to get people to change their behavior, when it’s such a simple way to live.’ i.e. “My way is right cos thats how I was trained”
Needless to say, others in the world did not recieve the exact same training nor share your exact requirements, and that has nothing to do with not helping out and everything to do with not growing up in the same family as you…
This is amazing insight.
I wish someone had explained this in male words to my ex-husband, for him to understand.
So whoever feel the worst about whatever random shit is entitled to CLAIM change and compliance from the other partner ??
I do love these post and how it translates really common situations of marital conflict into terms that any man can grasp. Especially since it’s situation men stereotypically can’t make sense of.
I also love how this post show your own growth and maturity and emotional intelligence.
I relate much to this situation, but here the thing. What happen when your wife feel disrepected and HURT and alone and all those things you said over EVERY LITTLE SHIT in the household ? Where does it start and where does it end ?
Should you comply forever and completely twist your habits, routines, behaviours and how you spend your energy to make sure she isn’t frustrated or else live thru permanent conflict in the household.
I love her so I put the fucking glass in the sink. If she loves me, why can’t she drop that entitlement and learn to deal with emotional frustration. Why can’t she work on herself to understand my love and respect for her is not tied to a fucking glass wherever in the world it could be.
Why should I have to fight and forfeit these infinite number of battles (as there will ALWAYS be something since it all stems from untreated insecurities and entitlement) while she can’t even care to start looking at this one underlying big constant problem ??
Uhoh…you have peeled back the layers of the onion here. Prepare to be villified!
You watch your dirty mouth. Mothball my blog… settle down.
This reply confuses me. Pls clarify
I think she left you because you didn’t put 1/10 the thought into washing the glass or putting it in the dishwasher as you do running on and on in this blog, a blog that DOESNT WORK AT ALL if you don’t follow a set of rules of organization 2000x more complicated than keeping a kitchen counter clean.
Marriage is not a zero s game. You made your choice of priorities as if it was. (FYI, running your blog is not the same as inventing airplanes etc).
Not sure what the point of your post was other than to troll. Zero value.
I’m a woman. A married woman. I appreciate the hell out of this article. Will be sharing it with my husband in hopes that it can give him the “aha” moment we’re so desperately in need of.
It must be frustrating to see the many comments of people whose head your well-thought out and analogous point went over. Well done though.
One sided, you give us your perspective of what she was thinking, your perspective on what you thought she thought you should be thinking, but not your perspective of what you were actually thinking at the time.
Men Are Not Children, Even Though We Behave Like Them
Pleaaase speak for yourself. If there is anything that will help you in future relationships, it’s that generalizing makes you sound like a daft fool to people who actually understand how generalizing is an ignorant heuristic approach to pretending like your smart and have something figured out that you dont.
To people who agree with you, you sound super witty and like you have it all figured out. To the people who put more thought into it, you sound like a pretentious, arrogant, subservient brown noser.
It literally sounds like your just sucking tit for tally points. Is this about what you actually think or what she and other overbearing women of yoir past have convinced you that you should think. Or what you think women want you to think. I understand you are desperate and your ego was shot after getting dumped for a glass by the sink but you took it to mean everything about you and nothing about her. You let the guilt and insecurity of what she told you was wrong with you cause you to cave and take the blame for everything.
Im sure there were many other reasons why she didnt want to be with you, the glass by the sink was just an out for her, a last straw. Maybe spend some time trying to figure out what it actually was. But if you want to not learn and pretend you figured it out all on your own, and then bash people for telling you that you sound like a feminist, go with that, she was right about everything and you were just a basketcase that took being dumped to finally understand. But you still don’t.
What if I told you publishing houses in at least six countries are paying me to write a book about it? That you’re still the smartest and I’m still the dumbest?
I’m not sure that you know as much about what I think/know as you imply. But I do appreciate your time and feedback.
No you dont appreciate my time and feedback. You have ypur head stuck up your ass and want to tell everyone who disagrees off. Drama sells dude, your post is way over the top dramatic. Feminism sells too, its pretty trendy. You seem to be keeping up with the trend of women who dont want Patriarchy, misogyny, or equality… you go ahead and support the agenda of spreading a matriarchal attitude and creating a philogynistic society, I’m sure youll get lots of feminists publishing yoir stuff 😉 Big Success. You really felt the need to flex and boast and validate your point by saing “high status people agree with me so i must be right”. You sound ridiculous.
Jesus. You’re awesome. Have the best time being you and spreading joy.
I spread joy when its relevant. This is fuel for ignorance. I don’t smile when I read this and my response isn’t joy. My response is frustration that people are spreading polarized viewpoints and generalizing genders as if we can put everyone into a box. If you said
Men and Women Are Not Children, Even Though (We?)[Many] Behave Like Them [At Times]
You would be right, and you wouldnt sound like a know it all. Thats what I want, for you to leave room for argument and not state a bunch of correlations and associations you made as fact. Say “this is what i think” not “this is what is”.
Thats like saying “People are Dumb”. Dumb people are dumb when they are being dumb. Do you see what Im getting at? I apologize for the attitude but its not directed at you its directed at the way you set your words in stone and told everyone you were right down to the tee and they just dont understand yet and maybe never will. Your article could use a bit of improvement in order to filter out the enormous amount of bias and generalization.
I wrote this in January 2016. In about an hour. There are a million things wrong with it. But it got people talking about the idea of what’s allowed to matter to people.
It’s an important conversation.
I’m not defending this article. I’m not saying I’m smart. I’m not saying I’m anything.
I’m saying you came at me super-hard, and you don’t know what I actually think and/or know because you read one thing I wrote nearly five years ago.
Fair enough, but you’ve replied recently and your attitude seems like thats exactly what you were doing. Your right, I sound like a sarcastic ass, but only because it take a lot of energy to be particular about wording this not to sound that way. But when I’ve done that several times in the past and it didn’t work, I’m gonna let my frustration be known. You posted this pubicly, you should have expected disagreement and debated and discussed rather than tell just about everyone who doesn’t completely agree they are wrong. It seems you were looking for attention from those who agree and are completely averse to criticism from those who don’t.
Appeal to Authority Fallacy. Robin DeAngelo and IX Kendi had their books published, too…at the top of they went to the top of the charts. Not so long ago, Jordan Peterson had the same experience. And his ideas are in direct contrast to Deangelo and Kendi. Whats ur point here Matt?
Tell me what you want, please. I don’t engage enough here to have a sense of your point of view or agenda or whatever.
My agenda is simple: I think relationships suffer big time because of things people don’t realize are the actual problem. And then good people, individually, and as families, feel shittier every day than necessary. I believe that for many of them, a subtle shift in perspective and the replacement of some accidentally harmful habits with more useful ones can result in cohesive relationships and families.
I don’t want people to suffer if it can be avoided by the things I spend my time thinking/writing/coaching/talking about.
That’s my entire agenda. My North Star every day.
Please help me understand what your issues or criticisms or pain points are about what I do, and I will try my best to address it.
What I want: an open and intellectually honest conversation about interpersonal relationships, specifically btwn heterosexual people (although obv not exclusively), and the challenges that arise within them: marriage and its attendant challenges, the raising of offspring, how ‘typical’ roles play out, and how they can change, hopefully in order to strengthen relationships rather than not. I’m assuming you have the same goals….it seems so.
Where I have a problem with the whole conversation is where a lot of folks do: where a single pov (with some variations on a theme) become the othodoxy, and any views that challenge that orthodoxy are summarily shut down. And often met with unabashed vitriol. Women/wives are NOT the arbiters of what makes ‘a good marriage’…neither are men/husbands. Its a RELATIONSHIP. Are we in agreement on this? If so, then lets address the gist of this original blog entry: that your ex-wife divorced you because she felt invisible, uncared for, disrespected, invalidated. Again…its not about the glass by the sink. But that glass is emblematic of all the above, etc. Correct? Now here is where things get dicey: are all those things true? Did you invalidate her? Treat her invisibly? Disrespect her? If so, then yes…you are a douchebag. We are all capable of douchery, and have all been guilty of it, intentionally and otherwise. This includes wives. Believe it or not. And so, wives need to be accountable for their own douchery rather than ‘policing’ the men in their lives. But there is no question that socially and culturally this is not the case. Think of all the tropes…and what they portray. And this in turn leads women to think of themselves as victims first, and adults somewhere down the line. (Btw, many men perpetuate this…seperate topic, tho.)
Anyway , as has been noted, these issues ALL stem from insecuities….and more often then not, that is something the person feeling insecure has to deal with. So maybe your wife wasnt so invisible and invalidated as she, or you, think. Maybe SOME of the issue is her responsibility. Yet when even a HINT of this heterodoxy is displayed here, it is shunned (i believe you yourself replied to me to ‘watch my dirty mouth…and mothball this blog’. I still have no idea if that reply was serious, cryptic, or what. I also notice that when the inanity of the ‘mental load’ trope gets bandied around, you give high praise to it as a monument attesting to the ‘invisible work’ women do. Yet, when that obvious horseshit gets knocked down like the purile garbage it is, nary a peep. As I have stated elsewhere: women/wives are NOT ENTITLED. To anything. If both parties work on their own shit, and act like adults while doing so…well then, maybe all that pain and suffering you see and write about will be reduced. After all…thats your N Star, right?
“What I want …” If that’s what you want, why don’t you start your own blog, or a reddit conversation or some such thing? Neither Matt nor anyone else here owes you agreement with your various positions.
I would also like to point out that chances are excellent that Matt knows his ex-wife and his former marriage far better than you do, so remarks such as these – “So maybe your wife wasnt [sic] so invisible and invalidated as she, or you, think. Maybe SOME of the issue is her responsibility” – are pointless, unless you have solid evidence that the woman in question was indeed an “insecure douchebag” (to paraphrase your shorthand). And I don’t really get why you seem so bent out of shape, since I took the larger point in the original essay to be about how Matt didn’t take responsibility for his own shit and refused to act like an adult, as symbolized by the glass near the sink.
Women are not entitled to anything that men are not also entitled to. Find me one who suggests otherwise, and you and I will have a common adversary.
I have thoughts about how women (broad generalization here — the gender roles are not static from couple to couple) can participate positively in all of this. I hope you’ll forgive me for spending more time focused on the sorts of things I could do better and the sorts of things people like me can do better rather than point fingers at others. I think it’s pretty lame to point at others and worry about what they’re doing until someone has given all that they have to give to bringing about positive change.
If you want to ask me about some of those things women might be able to do more effectively (in my opinion), I’ll be happy to share them.
It’s almost as if you believe that I believe that every couple and individual falls into the exact same bucket. Where they all have the same marriage or relationship problems. Ironically, I don’t think that’s too far from the truth, but not in the way you seem to be suggesting. Everyone’s marriage issues are different, and vary wildly depending on their specific circumstances and personalities. However, thematically, I find them to largely be the same.
The story goes that two people with positive intentions get together voluntarily and promise to love one another forever, and then years later find themselves angry and resentful and both tend to blame the other person for creating the condition, and then either they stay married and hate one another and model shitty relationship habits for their kids or they divorce.
Both outcomes are unpleasant.
There’s a third outcome, though. One in which everyone is together and happy about it.
I try to participate in helping that third outcome happen because I find the other options sad and largely unnecessary. People aren’t getting divorced to the tune of thousands per day statistically because all women are insane, impossible-to-please, emotionally out-of-control tyrants or because all men are selfish, abusive, narcissistic sociopaths.
Yet so many people feel that way. And thousands of otherwise lovely people divorce every day and their kids cry about it.
If you think I’m an advocate for men submitting to their wives, or that I applaud control-freak women policing their husbands, then you’re fundamentally incorrect about what I believe. Maybe that’s because I’m a bad writer. More than likely it’s because you’ve never talked to me before, or even attempted to ask.
In my estimation, the key data point that you’re not considering is that many women in these situations experience pain. Pain that you, and many men, don’t feel also.
While you’re (the royal you, not you specifically) busy not feeling pain, and not believing that what your wife is claiming qualifies as a valid, believable, painful experience, you accidentally hurt your wife further, and exacerbate trust erosion in the relationship by simply telling her the truth as you see it.
You’re not doing anything “bad.” You’re not a “bad person.” You’re not trying to hurt anyone. But the mathematical result of your wife telling you that something hurt her, followed by you saying: “But that’s not what happened!” or “You’re overreacting!” or “But I had a perfectly good, logical reason for doing what I did. Let me explain.” = Wife Hurts Even More.
Two things happen. 1. She experiences invalidation of her thoughts and feelings, which becomes the new norm in the marriage, and the pain of that happening increases progressively as it keeps happening.
2. Trust erodes further during every exchange. When our wives say “That hurt me,” and we say that it didn’t, or that they’re too sensitive, or that we had a good reason to do the hurtful thing (which again — good men do this — it’s not some overtly asshole thing — we’re just honestly explaining ourselves with the best of intentions and attempting to defend our character)… when that happens we erode trust further.
Our wives say “Hey. A bad thing just happened and it really hurt me.”
And then we more or less promise that we’re going to do it again because of how logical it was, and how innocent and inconsequential it was.
When our wives report negative, painful experiences, and we tell them it’s all in their heads, or that we’re going to do the same things again in the future, they lose trust in us.
And a marriage cannot survive without trust.
Sooner or later, someone is going to leave.
And I believe, broken down to the earliest point of conflict, the genesis of this dynamic is when men habitually, without thinking, conclude that their wives reported experiences and emotional reactions to those things are WRONG. Or mistaken. Or weak. Or something not awesome that needs corrected.
And I think when we show up as people who give a shit when our spouses experience pain rather than people trying to sell them on how okay it is for us to do things comfortably even if it hurts them, that we can maintain and grow trust in relationships, and that people can be happy and feel peace in their relationships.
THAT’s what I believe. Leaving out a ton of nuance depending on the situation. I have to go.
Hi Matt! Long time no see…
Nice reply. My reaction to a lot of these pieces is, could it potentially apply if the genders were reversed? And usually my answer is yes.
Just by one of those awesome internet coincidences, I received today a piece by Ellyn Bader (titled “Clinical Transcript Reveals Symbiotic Yearnings and Hidden Barriers to Commitment”) in which it’s the woman who is disregarding her boyfriend’s pain. She’s not a psycho or an asshole, she’s just … not seeing it. And Ellyn has to hold her feet to the fire a bit. (The technical term “symbiotic” in the title means, the woman thinks that her partner just obviously should see things the same way she does. Familiar story.)
It cuts both ways, but it makes sense to me that you might write mainly from your own perspective as a man.
Matt you are amazing, and you really have your finger on the button. I think and hope you know that.
Thank you very much for checking this out and leaving a note.
jeezus why do men have to mansplain ALL THE TIME? Even to other MEN? Get off your high horse, you are the pot calling the kettle black.
And this..right here…is the crux of the problem. And why we cant have nice things. Strawman after strawman after strawman Poor Eileen…your unabashed smugness betrays your inability to consider any pov other than your own. Which is flawed, at best. Too bad.
Explain your use of strawman in this context
Mansplaining, among others.
Strawman-
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument.
a person regarded as having no substance or integrity.
Exactly what Eileen did. You used the word “mansplain” to misrepresent my position. As if im a defender of mens POV first and my viewpoint is not individualized and circumstantial but rather generalized as being of no substance due to my gender. But in reality you seem to be a defender of women and generalize all mens thoughts as invalid if they disagree with yours or other radical womens… because you dont wish to have an actual debate where someone is given room to get a word in and prove you might not have it all figured out, even as a woman.
The original point was to debate about the topic, but it was made nearly impossible to have decent discourse with the complete aversion to differing viewpoints by OP and all his supporters.
So now the topic is about how the OP and others are defending this guys “10 commandments”, and how it makes him look like an arrogant pretentious fool who is looking for attention and people to tell him hes right, rather than to have an actual discussion. The point of him posting this was for people to agree with him, he can’t handle criticism, he should be careful about putting himself out there with his book… he will likely get constructively criticized by at least a few, but hell see it as a personal attack and his defense will look just like it does now… arms lashing about trying to keep anyone who might break his fragile ego with the slightest disagreement or proof that he might not have it all figured out even this time around. We never have it all figured out.
Bluster all you want, my point still stands – pot calling the kettle black. Examine yourself before throwing stones. Btw, not sure where all this ENERGY is coming from – why are you so invested in the musings of a random blogger on the net?! You are a textbook bully, and you speak in absolutes and hyperbole – mature adults don’t do that.
Nice try Eileen…you brought up ‘mansplaining’…no one else did.
Again…why we cant have nice things. The poster you are responding to brought up some reasonable, valid, even IMPORTANT aspects of this subject matter. And what the acolytes do? The ol’ Motte & Bailey routine. Its typical, but its inane.
Glad you were able to calm down a little.
Its sad isnt it. Any point I have ever brought up has been dismissed as me being ignorant or wrong because of my gender. The actual points I have made have not been counter argued, just ignored or dismissed. The point of persuasion is to creat counterarguments or to answer the counterarguments, not to ignore them and proclaim all men are stupid children and dont understand relationships except you.
Thanks for writing this, it’s extremely helpful to explain my partner how I currently feel. I have enough and considering leaving.
In my case – the ‘glass by the sink’ is a different thing, nevertheless, equally frustrating that he doesn’t ‘gets it’. It is so sad that someone that tells me he loves me, breaks his promises over and over again.
To y’all the guys that mentioned compromise: this is not how it works. If something is important for your partner, it should be IMPORTANT to you.
I do veggies for dinner because my partner loves it, I keep in touch with his family, because it’s important for him, and do countless other stuff because he cares. If it was upon me, I wouldn’t spent a second on those things.
Why would you need a compromise if it makes your partner unhappy?
Moonflower, before you leave him can you help him understand what he is doing? Because he may not have a clue what is happening.
I have been married a long time. I have loved my wife every day – even the bad days. I have expressed my love for her every day. I have shared everything with her without thinking about it. I have never cheated or been violent or cruel. But looking back, having recently learned what I have about emotional IQ etc, I realise that for most of that time I have fallen far short of what I wanted her to have. I have been “guilty” of some of the things Matt has referred to here. But “guilty” in a limited sense, because the truth is I just didn’t understand these things. Emotional IQ just wasn’t part of my natural being. And I really, really, wish someone had explained its importance to me when I first met her, and that someone had been there to help me put it into practice every day. Because then I would have been a better person – the person she deserved. I have been lucky in that my wife has stuck with me, but she deserved better and she could have walked out in frustration as you are considering doing. Your guy may be the same. Maybe he loves you like I love my wife, to the point where sometimes his heart feels like it’s about to burst, but just doesn’t understand what he’s doing to your relationship. Maybe you can open his eyes. Clearly you love him, so it has to be worth a shot.
Thanks for sharing your story. It was incredibly heartwarming.
Eileen, thank you for your warm words but actually it’s a tale of learning things way too late. Not too late in the sense that our marriage failed, or even came close to failing, because it didn’t, but in the sense that I can never get that time back to make her feel the way I should have. All I can do is work on it today and tomorrow, but now the clock is against me – especially as I have years of bad habits working against me. All the best to you.
Can you be specific about what you did wrong?
Justin, there isn’t anything specific. It’s more about the point picked out above:
“… the key data point is that many women in these situations experience pain. Pain that you, and many men, don’t feel. While you’re busy not feeling pain, and not believing that what your wife is claiming qualifies as a valid, believable, painful experience, you accidentally hurt your wife further … by simply telling her the truth as you see it.
You’re not doing anything “bad.” You’re not a “bad person.” You’re not trying to hurt anyone. But the mathematical result of your wife telling you that something hurt her, followed by you saying: “But that’s not what happened!” or “You’re overreacting!” or “But I had a perfectly good, logical reason for doing what I did. Let me explain.” = Wife Hurts Even More. Our wives say “Hey. A bad thing just happened and it really hurt me.” And then we more or less promise that we’re going to do it again because of how logical it was, and how innocent and inconsequential it was.”
It’s the little stuff. Or what seems like little stuff to me. For example, I’m doing some work on the house to change the room to how she wants it. I’m glad to be doing it for her. It makes me feel good. No other reward required. She’s feeling good too, because she feels loved. But things are going wrong with the job, and just at the moment I’m struggling, on the edge of saving or losing the situation, she walks in. I can’t see it because I’m looking up at the ceiling, or under the floor, but she has a loving smile on her beautiful face. And she asks if I would like a cup of tea. And if I had said “yes”, she would have served a chocolate biscuit alongside it. Because she’s happy and feeling loved. But I’m struggling, and I snap: “Not now, I’m struggling here!” I don’t mean to snap, of course. It isn’t deliberate. It’s just my frustration with what I’m doing. That’s my explanation. My justification. I say sorry, but I explain that I simply couldn’t lose focus at that very moment because I would have dropped or broken the thingy. Surely that would have been obvious to anyone, I tell her. But my tone hurt her. And because she’s human, suddenly her hurt is all she’s aware of. All that love we were feeling for each other – a whole day’s worth – is suddenly invisible, buried beneath her pain.
It’s those little interactions which I don’t realize I’m doing badly, and which once I see her pain I explain away with perfectly good logical reasons. But while explanations and good logical reasons satisfy me when other people do unexpected things, that’s because that’s how my brain works. How I see the world. But people aren’t all the same, and that doesn’t work for her. It doesn’t make her feel better the way it makes me feel better. And I just didn’t get that. That wasn’t part of my life-view. So I hurt her.
When I think about all the things I learned at school which I have long since forgotten, and which have been of absolutely no use whatsoever to me, I just wish they could have found the time to teach me the stuff I needed to know about people and relationships. I’m learning now, but it takes time to unlearn a lifetime of bad habits.
Sounds little bit sexist, Paul. 😉 You may have a sensitive wife and that’s her personality. But plenty of women are capable to understand when partner snaps out of frustration. We can snap too. If partner cares to explain it afterwards, the hurtful moment can be healed, given it’s not happening all the time. Nothing to do with “how the brain works”. Brains of women ar just as capable of rational thought.
Hi D, I certainly didn’t intend to bring sex or gender into this, let alone be sexist. I’m not sure where that came across in my comment, but I definitely see the issue as one of personality rather than sex or gender. There may (or may not) be a general association between sex/gender and different personality traits, just as there is a general association between sex/gender and height, foot size or muscle mass, but as with height, foot size and muscle mass, I’m quite sure there is plenty of overlap between the two graphs. And I’m definitely not suggesting that there is any correlation between sex/gender and rational thought – I suggested it once, but my wife soon beat that misunderstanding out of me!
I have a portion of the kitchen counter that’s mine where I can do as I wish. I leave my glasses and anything else there. If I leave dishes in the sink, she’s not happy, so I just have to remember that. I also have my own bathroom counter that’s my domain about which she can’t complain.
Sounds great!
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So, I was really hoping that by the end you would understand that a dirt glass is not something that really upsets or hurts us.
It’s not about just one glass you forget once in a while, it’s not about values and whatever. This makes us look crazy and neurotic. It’s not that !
It’s about participation, it’s about living in a house that is not just yours. Is about stopping let women take care of everything all the time. Because men are used to let women do everything they didn’t. Because society taught us to do so, and taught men that you don’t need to worry about taking care of your house because it’s your partner responsibility, and believe me, we really fell like we are the responsable.
If you deal with children you know how exhaustive it is to repeat the same thing hundreds of time when the person still don’t care. Don’t tell us to keep repeating things, tell men to start listening.
The thing is that if you don’t put the glass in the place, eventually you’ll need a clean glass and someone will need to do it. And guess who ?
All the problem with “I think it’s not important” is because you don’t understand what’s behind it.
You should stop worrying about the glass or the little things that for you are not a big deal and ask women why it upset them. Then you may understand a little bit more of why your marriage is over.
This is so correct and the point I was trying to make. The original article actually makes women look bad, neurotic, crazy. And shows the author still doesn’t get it.
(2016)
Erm, his wife sounds neurotic and exercising coercive control. Her way or highway…!
So every time you use a glass, you have to put it in the dish washer? So at the end of the day there are what, 5 glasses in there? Maybe 10. Why not be allowed to re-use it and put it in the dish washer at the end of the day or two? Giving in to neuroticism at this level out of “respect” is not respect, it is weak pandering at worst and enabling bad viewpoints at best.
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I’m not entirely sure how I feel about this article yet, cos I have to chew it – see Guardian article thats sent a new wave of aggreived commenters here 🙂
Many thanks for it though. The comments have been interesting reading too…
I’m female, and frankly, my house is loosely contained chaos, and I feel struck down with guilt and shame reading this.
Which says a lot about my upbringing since I live on my own and dont need in theory to consider where I put the glass.
However when I live with others, I over worry about placing “the glass”, metaphorical or otherwise.
And when guests come, I go into a frenzy of self flagellating cleaning.
But tbh, I have an auto immune condition long tail Covid and Im animating a film, in my messy kitchen, that requires every little bit of mental energy to find where to put a million techy things, so finding more energy to place glasses correctly etc seems beyond the pale.
I realise I digress from your excellent point, but i just wanted you to share the painful expulcation Im going through as a result of reading this.
Also a little bit of controlled untidyness reassures me.
I like a household with small piles of paper/ sketches/drawings, opened books, slightly wilted flowers and the odd bit of laundry drying on the radiator.
But it should be silk, and the glass should be beautiful.
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How valued are we in a relationship’s timeline? Is that’s the crux? That and understanding that a good marriage often means opposites (& the annoying traits) are can be complimentary – no one is strong at everything, where one is weak, the other is strong?
29 years of marriage…short version…
My spouse started listening to “others”, mainly her family but also feminist info from FB about how “bad” I am. BTW, this kind of “white anting” takes time.
Next step was to de-value then move onto “forgetting” all the things I do and doesn’t know how to do herself because the now the organizational magic fairy makes them happen.
The next step was to accuse me of being lazy, then “abusive” when I had to justify to her the tasks I do.
When I dis-engaged from explaining I was accused of being unsupportive & uncommunicative.
When she left, she found out.
Now I am at fault again because I won’t step in again to smooth over all the minutiae of life from taxes to vehicle registrations to accommodation rental and more.
IMO, the lesson is (using mixed metaphors): Be careful of what you wish for, you might get it then find it becomes ashes in your mouth.
I have a husband and an adult son. The best thing to do is not to encourage in men a belief that they are entitled. Heaven knows, being born male automatically entitles you to everything that women have often had to work or fight for. And a frigging glass in the sink – again – can look like entitlement in see-through form. And I have long told – in clear English – both husband and son that they do not fuck with me. I have never had to tell my daughter. I grew up in the 60s and 70s where men were entitled to do absolutely frig all round the house and had long arguments with my mother about this, even as I dried up the Sunday lunch dishes. Unsurprisingly, I was also told repeatedly that I was too outspoken. Divorce is a very loud screaming response to a life where somebody always gets to leave a metaphorical glass in a metaphorical sink and walk away while somebody else opens the dishwasher and cleans up – metaphorically. Extreme, yes. But also definitive. Frankly, telling people not to fuck with you tends to be cheaper and quicker. PS I do not, and never have, owned a dishwasher. Problem halved. Good luck.
“Heaven knows, being born male automatically entitles you to everything that women have often had to work or fight for.”
…and with that, I can safely ignore anything else you have to say.
Female here.
I’ve had this conversation with my husband multiple times, specifically pointing out that it’s not about the ‘glass’, it’s about an equal willingness to compromise and respect the other’s point of view.
I don’t know how it is for others, but my husband finds it extremely difficult to connect with that abstract principle, and instead focuses on interpreting my input as being solely about a ‘glass’ as opposed to, say, mutual respect, compromise or equality.
Personally, all it would take for me to feel respected is an acknowledgement of what I find important, for example, “I’m deliberately leaving this glass here because I intend to reuse it later”, or, “I know you hate when I use the best bath towels to mop up something I spilled in the kitchen, but on this occasion I made the call it was the most expedient thing to do and I’ll replace the towel.”, or even “I totally disagree with your way of chopping an onion and I’m going to continue to do it my way”.
I have a theory as to why many men find it hard to understand why the principle of this kind of recognition is so important to women. It could be because men routinely experience the world as not questioning their right to have an opinion or a preference, and women routinely experience the opposite. In that statement you can transpose white/black, or able/disabled or straight/gay, and find exactly the same paradigm.
Regardless, I still try to have the conversation, to explain carefully the principle. No part of me believes my husband is deliberately trying to inflict pain, and only sometimes do I believe the misunderstanding is deliberate. On the flip side, it’s equally hard for me to ignore or disregard his wishes, to test the theory that he would not be hurt or offended if he were on the receiving end of inconsideration or lack of recognition. Because I would be doing that consciously rather than in blissful ignorance, it simply wouldn’t be equivalent.
Happy to see that some others have understood the point, and unsurprised that many other commenters have not. Roll on evolution…
Araucaria, don’t you think it is completely unacceptable and very controlling to try to tell adult person how to chop an onion?
Beautifully written and expressed. I hope that you have learned how to show her that you are a real gem. <3
I searched out the original blog article after reading this in Huffington Post because I wanted to let you know that I personally felt understood when reading this and it felt great to be understood. I personally think that there can be things people pick apart with what and how you wrote it being 2016 and all, but overall in my opinion you nailed it. Thank you.
Fascinating post and really well-written.
It’s very insightful, but I can’t help but see some irony here. If one is to deal with the dishes as demanded, one is doing so as an act of empathy. But where is the wife’s attempt to empathize with why her husband feels disrespected by the demand?
Also, it seems rather childish to me to try and control the dish timing of one’s spouse. The husband is not a child, and putting the dishes away in his own time as he would when living alone is not inherently childish. It is just a difference of priorities. To me, it seems the wife is projecting a belief of childishness based on her own hang-ups, and is treating her husband like a child by her own choosing. Why doesn’t she worry about her own dishes instead of worrying about his? Unless he truly will never clean them up and/or leaves them about when she needs the kitchen clean because she is cooking, this seems quite ridiculous to me.
Additionally, I get the argument that not moving the glass is “caring less about her (or placating her hang-ups) than taking a few minutes to move the glass,” but if she leaves him because of the glass, she clearly also cares less about him than having the flexibility to stop treating him like a child.
I guess the assumption is that the husband eventually ends up putting the dishes in the dishwasher.
It’s also possible, as is frequently the case, that the dishes are left on the side in the hope the “Magic Dishwashing Fairy” eventually does them.
I have been in that situation and it’s frustrating and disrespectful.
…or you could just respect the fact that he wants to leave dishes next to the sink.
Instead of putting them in the sink, or washing them, or putting them in the dishwasher.
It’s quite possible that he wants them where he put them.
And that to ask “why are you doing that!?!” when you can’t see why, or really don’t think that there could be a good reason why, and really don’t care to know why because you’ve already made up your mind that it’s a bad thing? It could be that that is the real problem.
You see the dishes next to the sink. Don’t ask why they are there. Just deal with it.
If you can’t deal with it, then find a solution on your own. The conflict will not be resolved through discussion. If there is one thing that we should all have realized this year, it is that conflicts cannot be resolved through discussion.
…an insane person can rationalize the living shit about doing insane things.
Marital conflicts most certainly can be resolved through discussion as long as your spouse is reasonable.
Definitely better to use dueling pistols at 20 feet than discussion, definitely. Thinking you are better off living alone.
“Respect the fact that he wants to leave dishes by the sink”
Why? Why does she have to respect a marriage that is a not a partnership? Where he constantly expects her to clean up after him? The fact is if they wish to eat off clean dishes and drink out of clean glasses at some point those dishes have to be washed.
Of course you are right he is entitled to refuse to do that and just leave his dishes in the sink for somebody else to take care of eventually.
And she is free to leave. Which is what she did.
“It’s very insightful, but I can’t help but see some irony here. If one is to deal with the dishes as demanded, one is doing so as an act of empathy”
Or simply doing it because the ends justify the act.
They are responding to domestic training.
I daresay that once the wife realizes this, a lot of respect is going right out the window.
As a person who has left someone because he wouldn’t put away the dishes, I can assure it was not only that. Small details pile up and amount to something. Each individual action doesn’t exist in a vacuum. And you cannot say she is not being empathetic, because probably there are a thousand things in which she is empathetic, but you cannot give it all and receive only what’s convenient for the other part. Each person has their own necessities, the key is if he didn’t care about the glass and she did, the fact that his non-caring was more important than her caring says a lot about his empathy.
And what if it’s the wife who does this and not the husband???? Where the husband is always cleaning up after the wife? Taking the trash out that keeps getting pushed down to the point of no return, washing dishes that are “soaking” in the sink?
Then the same applies.
Clearly you still haven’t learned anything.
You are reacting to the fact that you were divorced, not to what you need to do to be successful and happy in life.
She did not leave you because you didn’t put the dishes in the dishwasher or because you didn’t value her enough. She left you because she did not want to follow your path. And you cannot find and walk your own path in life by taking the advice of others. The desire and guidance to find and follow your own path has to come from inside.You have to find what YOU want and choose what you want and follow it according to your own feelings, instincts and thoughts, but hopefully NOT from a place of pain, loneliness and rejection/abandonment.
In this article, your head is clearly still stuck up your ex-wifes’ ass. Because you think that somehow you will undo and/or avoid this “disaster” by shoving your head up her ass.
Here’s a clue: thats your wife’s ass, and your wife is walking away from you at high speed.
Because she just took HER head out of YOUR ass.
Be a man…your own man. Think your own thoughts, not what you think were your wifes’ thoughts or what you think that your wife wanted you to think. And find your own happiness. Your way.
If you think that is by being a whiny bitch, I’d say that you’re probably wrong, but hey to each their own.
And may everyone reading this article take one thing from it.
This is what you get for putting sex, marriage and children before the quality of your relationship with the person that you’re fucking, thinking of marrying and eventually having children with.
Why do you think that hundreds of millions of marriages fail every year?
Because they never should have happened in the first place.
And they definitely will not last if that is the case right from the start.
Man…among the 4K+ comments, this might be one that actually aims true. No doubt it will be skewered….
Maybe she was just tired of being the sole person to take care of the household?
I tried to say it better, But damn this was hard to top.
Maybe so. You make a lot of really good points. By getting “her head out of his ass” , did you mean she started to look to her own happiness and stop focusing on all the shuff around the house and in their relationship that was leaving her feeling the way she was feeling (unappreciated, disrespected, whatever–we don’t know cause we’re not in her head) ?
And his getting his head out of her ass to stop imagining what she was thinking about how he imagined he ffup?
I think your final assessment might be spot on. There are probably a few relationships where people (from the start) actually want to learn and grow into a couple together and are willing to do that work. For the rest of us marriage is an exhausting enterprise and there is no happy ending in sight since we’re not on the same page as our spouse. But the kids really don’t want us apart, so what to do? Be kind and keep my head to myself…
…an insane person can rationalize the living shit about doing insane things.
They are still insane.
And this, kids, is what a selfish non-empath looks like.
Wanting to live in a clean house and eat of clean plates is not insane.
I’m married and hate cleaning. If I had my way, we’d clean a couple of times per year and let dishes pile up in the sink until clean dishes were needed. That’s how I live when single. My wife is a neat freak that expects me to clean often. If I want her happy, then I have to do it her way. That’s fine by me. If she’s happy, she’s more likely to be nice to me and more likely to be open to sex. In the end, I’m just benefiting myself. I could choose to be a single slob that isn’t getting laid, but I don’t. I prefer the other option.
I would hope there is more to married life (as compared to single life) than just getting laid regularly!
Yes, there is, but not without sex. There would be no married life for me without it happening regularly. I’ll take care of her if she takes care of me.
Might I suggest taking care of her without demands, and THEN, if your needs aren’t being met, have that conversation?
Love = giving without expectation.
Most of us don’t do it, and then act confused about why our relationships are shitty.
We’ve been together for 11 years, and I’ve never asked for sex in exchange for cleaning. It just works out that way in general. I keep her happy, and she keeps me happy. If I didn’t clean regularly, she’d be gone, and she’s said so. Same as me and sex. We both know what the other person needs, so we do it without “demands.” I don’t get these guys that leave things everywhere and upset their wives because, in my life, that would just be hurting me because she wouldn’t be attracted to me and wouldn’t want me physically.
Thanks for this update and I better understand your point now.
It made it sound very transactional before but you’re just talking about happiness in a relationship vs. unhappiness and being taking for granted. I guess the framing around sex is odd because you can clean a house despite not wanting to do it. I cannot imagine having sex just for another person despite not wanting to do it (or wanting to have sex in that kind of set-up!)
But I better understand your point.
I’m much higher libido than her, so I have to do things like that to try to keep her libido at a workable level for me. If I didn’t do those things, her already low libido (compared to mine) would probably be non-existent.
It makes me sick to my stomach how some people see marriage as a transaction instead of as a partnership.
I was searching for that wording but yes that’s what I was thinking. It looks transactional as opposed to a true partnership.
Don’t you have deal breakers in your relationship? Aren’t there things that you require for the relationship to work? These are our deal breakers. It’s not a transaction in the sense that I get sex if I clean. It never works that way. Not once in over 11 years have I cleaned and then been rewarded for it. No, it makes her happier and more fond of me, so she’s more likely to be open to sex in general. If I suggest it, she’s more likely to be enthusiastic about it. If I wasn’t regularly cleaning, she might just say no or give an uninterested look. She does that sometimes, of course, if she doesn’t feel good or isn’t in the mood. That’s perfectly fine.
You might find the book “Getting the Love You Want” by Harville Hendrix to be interesting. My understanding of the thesis is that we come across a person whom we believe will fulfill our unmet needs and we become enamored with them. They too will feel the same way and they romance and marry and eventually find that the other person isn’t fulfilling their needs (because they’re not a mind reader) and then will begin to withdraw their contributions to the happiness of the other. This is what he calls the power struggle, the point at which most divorces occur. Yes, it is very transactional. A good complement to that book is the book Attached by Levine/Heller. If you understand both of those, you are on your way to a solid understanding of what it takes to be in a good relationship.
Doesn’t change the fact that that’s what it ultimately is. Once “love” fades (and it does in most cases), you’re left with a business partnership.
Oh…ok…well I guess if it works for the two of you. Hopefully nothing ever happens (such as illness) to ever cause any issues in that regard.
Expectations would drastically change in the event of an illness or serious injury.
My ex did not care about my feelings. Whether or not he understood in the past is irrelevant – he wouldn’t care if he did understand. Scorn and contempt were his favored means of communication.
And that is why he is now single.
So you are arguing, at the end, it’s a matter of lack of empathy. Because I don’t need to fully know or understand why I’m hurting someone, if they tell me I hurt them I just try not to do it again. Also, how long does it take for a man to fully understand? Because I tried for years, explaining everything in different ways, and nothing, absolutely nothing changed.
This is important. Thank you.
This is one of the most insightful and patient ways of seeing things. Currently my partner and I are learning how to be more assertive and patient with eachother rather than passive agressive and short. It can be easy to get upset about small things when it feels it starts to add up.
We are learning to let eachother know what we want and allow eachother to work on compromising for the other, without feeling the need to make the other feel wrong or ashamed for not doing things our all the time or immediately. It can be difficult and it takes patient to listen to all the little things that someone thinks matters and have the care to be conscientious of it all the time when it realistically isn’t that big if a deal much of the time. These little peculiarities and preferences can add up though and being flexible for what matters to eachother and be willing to take turns letting your way go sometimes can, can create a mutually beneficial relationship where both partners are willing to go out of the way for eachother, but where it is never expected, or obligated to where we try to put shame on eachother for ever failing to meet one of our countless rigid expectations. Or to not take their efforts for granted and to realize they may be trying. Or maybe they don’t care and that doesn’t mean they are a terrible person and the wife was right all along, its just means you have different preferences.
I have this conversation with my partner regularly. He will do anything I ask him to, but he doesn’t notice himself, so I have to ask.
The part that doesn’t make sense to me is the below statement.
“I will never care about a glass sitting by the sink. Ever.”
Will you care when you don’t have a clean glass to drink out of?
I don’t clean as I go for pleasure, although I do admit that I feel a sense of calm when my home is clean. I clean because it needs to be done, and it makes much more sense to me to do it in 5 seconds on the spot, than let a pile of dishes build up that will take me 20 minutes to wash up. I clean because I want a clean glass when I want a drink.
I’ll tell you why I get so pissed off, it’s because the glass then stays there forever and a day and I’m expected to pick it up and wash it. It gets left on the opposite side of the room to the sink and just sits there.
This goes for everything else in the house. His clothes, his rubbish, his shoes. He doesn’t care because I’m there to pick it up
But I don’t anymore. His clothes stay on the floor and don’t get washed. His glass stays wherever he leaves it and his shoes are destroyed by the pets because he doesn’t put them on the shoe rack
Not my fckng problem
Exactly this!
This is what the tone of this article misses. It’s not solely about insisting that somebody does it your way. It’s that inevitably this glass is just one indicator of being with somebody who refuses to be an active participant in managing the house. The glasses pile up until somebody has to clean them.
Yes, and it’s difficult for me to feel respect for a person that doesn’t take responsibility for their own stuff. Some of the mess is unhygienic. Some items get ruined for no reason other than neglect. Some things are just untidy and unsightly.
However, it’s all a linked (in my mind, at least) that they don’t respect their stuff enough to take care of it. Maybe this is true in other areas of their lives. I don’t know?
Perhaps they don’t respect their relationship enough to take care of it by listening to their spouse when requests are made for them to pickup their stuff, i.e. finish the job. Get glass, drink water, put glass away (either in glass spot or in the dishwasher). Sort of like, get tool, use tool to fix or build, put tool away in toolbox and put toolbox back in garage/shed.
Picking up after yourself is just finishing a job. It’s not complicated stuff.
Ok first off no woman is mad about a glass or a chore or a (insert bullshid excuse). A woman wants you to be a man, that is what she thought you were that is who she thought she married. Or is it. Some people are in love with the IDEA of being married. That correlates to “I am not lonely.” Then they see that marriage takes actual work day in and day out and then they start to question if this is the institution for them. This isn’t a one sided argument. this is on both sides. Cause I have a question, do you think that she would have left as quick if you for financially well off. Women heal like wolverine when the bank account is high. What people FAIL to understand (and listen cause this will make or break a marriage) There is a certain level of crazy that you will have to deal with. When I am dating a person it is not cause she is hot, or has a banging body. All that shid fades after the first six months. I am trying to determine what is her level of crazy. Now to the same side of that coin, there is a certain level of crazy she is going to have to deal with as well. You would be a fool to think that there is only one crazy person in the couple. If my level of crazy peaks at leaving a glass by the sink instead of in it and you feel like you have had it and you want out. Then by all means get your shid and crank up one of those things smoking and hit the bricks. Or if you want me to leave great, I know who I am I can get everything back I lost twice fold. What won’t happen is I be held hostage by your crazy thinking that if everything is not to your liking you will leave me. I will make it easy on you trust me.
To the writer if any of this is true, man she didn’t leave you because of a glass, no chores or anything like that. One thing that I found is that women will out grow you. Did you have a conversation with her? Figure out what went wrong. Was your ambition high enough. Women don’t like a stagnated man. Were you reliable? If she can’t trust you or depend on you she will look for a third party. did you make her feel like a woman? that is a part of the equation as well. Have you met or exceeded your potential? things like these are subconscious things that a woman mulls over. Long story short most woman want a pet grizzly bear (yeah like the one you see on the videos) they want a 1200lb pet that would jump through hoops and dance on a ball for them. but still have the capacity to be ferocious just as long as it is not in her direction. Now the real question is were you a beast ……………. or a pet?
Women aren’t a monolith.
Your cod science is not backed by evidence.
Sometimes a spouse will leave merely because they have outgrown the other spouse / no longer love them.
But it can also be due to feeling disrespected, anger at one spouse refusing to pull their weight in managing the household etc
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All they had to do was buy plastic cups, paper plates, plastic forks, spoons and knives. Problem solved.
environment ruined…. just wash a dish
also, did you even read this? its not about the dish. its about respect
You missed the point which actually proves the point.
The last time we were visiting my husband’s parents, his dad mentioned that he’d like it if, when people used the crushed-ice feature of the ice dispenser on the fridge, they then put it *back* to the cube setting. That requires pressing ONE button.
But because I *heard* him and *paid attention* – he *was* expressing a need he’d like to have met, after all – I did as requested. It only required pressing a button, after all.
He happened to be passing by, noticed me pressing that all-important button, and said “Thank you.” He *genuinely* appreciated having been prioritized, even though it was something objectively trivial.
Your article here helped me understand. Thank you.
I’m a wife, but feel that I am in the team “husband” on this one. Hope to separate in near future, because life of irrational nagging is not worth living. 😀 So – maybe this is not about gender, but personalities.
Did you feel like Quarantine made things rapidly worse?
Yes. Not getting a break from each other makes everything a helluva lot harder.
Being a woman, I can tell the poor man, leave her, the nightmare has just begun. She will never be able to feel appreciated enough.
This. There is no discussion of ‘degree’ here. If it is a small number of things that need attention in order for her to feel loved, then the author’s approach is reasonable and correct. But if it is an endless, minute-by-minute succession of needy demands, with no end in sight (likely due to extreme, and sadly not uncommon, emotional insecurity), then the poor guy has no chance of ever keeping up.
The best advice I’ve ever heard on building strong relationships is to try and eliminate one’s expectations. Keep your expectations down to the absolute fundamental necessities.
You may have missed it but his wife already left him. Probably because he always left things for her to clean up after him
Exactly! The respect comes from not treating your wife like a maid.
This comment screams “PICK ME!!!!!” ew
The main point missing here is that EVERYONE has different things that are important to him. I would put money on the fact that is ex would say she changed some behaviors because something mattered more to him than it did to her. If she didn’t do her altered behaviors, I’d put money on the fact that it would bother him. He just hasn’t been confronted with trying to explain to her over and over because she’s a decent person and wanted to have a strong partnership. This is not about differing emotional responses to things. This is about somebody paying attention to your emotion responses and changing their behavior accordingly. That’s all you would have to do and you can skip this whole runaround about “needing to be taught by your wife what is important to her over and over”. She shouldn’t have to teach you – you didn’t have to teach her!
Women don’t change anything are you kidding me. Most of then can’t even admit when they are wrong.
Woman take on board the bulk of unpaid and emotional labour in their marriages. This is changing a lot from what they would have had to do when single.
And men take on the bulk of the paid labor. Which always seems to get handwaved away in these conversations.
If the unpaid/”emotional labor” (and yes, those are sneer quotes) goes undone, a family can muddle through. If the paid labor doesn’t get done, you go hungry/lose your house. etc.
Tom. All of that is fine. Paid labor totally matters.
But you can live alone and pay for house, car, food, etc. And you never have to even think about unpaid/emotional labor.
A relationship or marriage is a different proposition. It’s a partnership. And if you opt out of unpaid/emotional labor, the relationship WILL suffer. Personally, I don’t think it’s cool to hurt people (even by accident), and I think life is MISERABLE when I’m in a conflict-heavy relationship without trust.
You get to decide what you want. Be single! It’s great.
But marriage/family can also be great. But there are some responsibilities that come along with it, and you can pretend like they’re unimportant if you want, but your life will always suck more if you do.
I’m sorry, but all of this shit bears out in the real world. There’s no magical way to usurp it. Either we accept responsibility for earning and maintaining trust/love/respect/safety in relationships, or our relationships will slowly get poisoned and make everyone connected to it a little bit more miserable than necessary.
The choice is: Live life alone with fewer responsibilities, or live life with someone else and learning how to coexist effectively.
Both have their plusses and minuses. Please choose.
I take on all the labor! Unpaid, emotional and PAID! My husband has never made close to what I have! What’s your response to that?! Put the freaking glass in the sink! Open your eyes and help your wife! Ask what you can do do help!!! A woman should NOT HAVE TO DO IT ALL! And I know more woman than not who make more $$$ than their spouses!
I don’t know the statistics, but I would be willing to make a pretty hefty bet that, as to married couples residing together, in a greater portion the husband earns more more than the wife. Not always, but a majority of the time.
However, this notwithstanding, unless the husband is working crazy hours in one or more jobs that take upwards of 80 hours per week, commute time included, he should still make every reasonable effort to help with the necessary tasks of maintaining the home and taking care of children. I do want to mention, however, that I am aware that there are some SAHW whose husbands take care of auto maintenance, either by themselves or getting vehicles in for service, and outside work, cutting the grass, trimming the bushes, shoveling the snow, etc., and their wives complain that they don’t get any help with the house.
I once lived in a house with a pool, and my wife and I both worked. I did 100% of the work to keep the pool clean and properly operating, mostly so that our kids could use the pool. She had no idea (and I think didn’t care), how much work that was for five months of the year.
When we separated, I still came on weekends and did what I could so that the kids could use the pool, but I couldn’t do everything.. The second summer after I left, the cover never came off the pool.
You are absolutely deluded if you think a family can survive without the unpaid / emotional labour being done (way to undermine the work of homemakers with your “sneer quotes”.)
Try never feeding your kids, never giving them clean clothes, leaving the house to fall into filth and see how fast they get ill or are taken away from you. Google Iceland to see what a strike from all unpaid labour did to the country.
And doing paid labour does not mean you get to treat the non earning spouse as a dogsbody.
(Also let’s not pretend that a lot of women doing most of the unpaid labour at home don’t also have paid jobs outside the home.)
And the point I was making was a direct response to the commentator who claimed women’s lives don’t change after they enter into a relationship. That’s a lie. They take on a lot of additional paid labour they did not have before. The earning spouse has not changed.
Hey Tom,
I hope you’re not married with that patriarchal attitude.
Here’s some stats for you.
Right before covid, 55% of women was in the work force (ie paid labour). (1)
Studies have shown that working women take on most of the household labour (taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, emotional labour etc).(2) The chores that men do… They need to be told to do it. So what’s your excuse for the men in these situations? That they are still the “bread winner” and don’t need to do chores and it’s still the wife’s “job”? I have tons of female colleagues who make more than they’re husband and does most of the household work.
Back to my first point…Once covid hit in 2020 and went into lockdown, kids couldn’t go to school, daycare closed. So who has to take on these jobs? Women. 4% left their paying jobs to take care of their kids(1)… something that they used to pay someone else to do.
I have linked sources to stats used in my comment:
1: https://www.statista.com/statistics/192396/employment-rate-of-women-in-the-us-since-1990/
2. https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-household-tasks.aspx
just be an adult and put the glass away?
You don’t do it even ONCE of your own volition? You’re being stubborn because you want to be agreed with so you engage in passive-aggressive behavior when your significant other is saying, in actual words, to just put it away?
You don’t know that it hurts even though your significant other said it hurts and is in tears?
you care more about company than you care about your significant other?
Yikes.
Seems like, even though you had time to reflect and you’ve divorced, you’re still making excuses and trying to rationalize your behavior after the fact.
In this entry you still managed to make it an issue because women process differently or because she wanted acknowledgement and appreciation.
Maybe she wanted someone who wasn’t such a passive-aggressive manchild who wouldn’t put a single dish away on a daily basis because what? He’s a man that desperately needs to be right? He doesn’t respect her opinion but gladly caves when guests are over (which means she was right in the first place)?
Christ. A mess.
I hope you’ve grown, buddy. And I hope your toxic coaching hasn’t damaged any other relationships the way you did yours.
Jesus.
It was written more than five years ago, Lin. I share your lack of enthusiasm for my word choices and some of the ideas shared. It’s not very good. People just keep sharing it anyway. I’m sorry.
Really? Last we spoke you said you were chosen for 15 different book awards and everyone wanted to publish your awful advice. It’s was sort of your way of proving to me that you were right “look, high status people agree with me I must be right” appeal to authority it’s called. But all of a sudden a month or two after you now realize you advice is terrible huh? What did it take you to realize that?
I’m burying a parent this week, Patrick. I don’t have room in my life for internet-arguing with Lin or you or anyone else, and I don’t want to.
If you want to have a philosophical conversation about my “advice,” I’d prefer it be based on what I discuss with coaching clients, and what I’ve written in, say, the past six months.
Sorry the comments on a five-year-old blog post mean so much to you. Maybe there’s a more effective way of sharing your ideas with people than investing in my old blog posts.
Because you don’t know what I believe or talk to people about. But you think you do. If you ever want to actually know instead of think, you just tell me.
But not this week, please.
Maybe we can all pour a drink and have a laugh about something and go outside instead of being dicks on the internet.
Who’s house will we be at? Will you be washing your glass this time around?
Patrick, you’re being an asshole.
Agreed, and I am a woman who wants that glass put away simply as a symbol of respect and acknowledgement…
My heart goes out to you, Matt. I’m so sorry for your loss. Prayers are winging their way to you now. God bless you and yours.
Thank you, K. ❤️
Burying a parent is one of the worst things ever. I didn’t even know why I read the comments until I got to this one and the disrespect you received. Take good care of yourself. I have no idea who you are, never read anything you’ve written before today, you certainly didn’t deserve that trolling previously. Take care of your heart, Matt. Blessed be the life lost in your family.
Thank you, Lena.
Matt, so sorry for your loss.
Reading your five year old article brought tears to my eyes. I keep thinking how he can write so precisely how I feel. Thank you.
Wish you and your loved ones a healthy and happy 2022.
Don’t tell this idiot you are sorry!!
This is why we have MGTOW and the Red Pill. All over a glass. His ex wanted control and wanted her way. He is better if without her. I’d rather be a single dad living my best life than a single mom that nobody wants anywayn
The double standards are weird when you deride single mothers yet you yourself are a single father.
And to be honest it’s better that those men who don’t want to contribute to the running of their household, go their own way. Their poor wives will be exhausted otherwise. It’s not about a glass. It’s about the lack of consideration for your spouse who is left to clean up after you. The glasses don’t magically clean themselves.
Congrats, you managed to miss the point despite being spoon-fed it. Go your own way fam, and OD on them red pills. You won’t be missed.
Exactly. Imagine reading this whole article and missing the point so badly! Men like this do everybody a favour by GTOW.
MGTOW: “Look women, we are going our own way!”
Most women with common sense: “Okay, sure, go your own way”.
MGTOW: “Bishes, ho-es, and single mother’s are ruining the dating scene for the good, angelical women, so we are going our own way”.
More and more women: “Whatever, sure, go!”
MGTOW: “The west is falling apart because marriage and birth rates are falling apart because…FeMiNiSm! So we are going our own way!”
Women and girls: “Okay, are y’all going your own way now?! Please do so”
MGTOW: “But alpha males, and…beta buxxs…and…hYpErGaMy…cHaD! Finally, we are just going our own way once and for all.”
The entire female specie: *crickets, silence, and eye rolls*.
MGTOW: “Finally, we are going our own way, and won’t participate in society.”
Everyone in the world who’s not MGTOW: “Oh, so MGTOW actually meant Men Getting Triggered Over Women, and not men going their own way this whole time!”
I’m not MGTOW, but these guys are not all wrong. Marriage is becoming a more and more losing proposition for men. Women have been poisoned buy feminism to the point where they want to prove they are just as good as men in everything rather than be unique women with special attributes that men do not posses.
The only reason people like you can make comments like that is because of a social safety net system that replaced the need for men. You are not as strong and independent as you think.
What is a social safety net? What’s that? I don’t think I know of such thing. All I’ve ever known is work, tertiary education, and overcoming adversities (eg. homelessness, illnesses, and incarceration to name a few). You got it all wrong.
Second, if you read journals and studies you’ll find that the opposite it’s true: MEN are the ones who benefit the most from marriage. Type on your search engine “are married men happier?” and it is a resounding yes, regardless of the source (whether it’s a conservative think tank like IFS, Harvard journals, or any generic western newspaper.
So please, spare me the BS.
If you’re still buying the BS the red pill is…you might as well turn into a woman. Why? Because the sisters who wrote and directed “The Matrix” had said multiple times that “the red pill” was and has been an allegory to transgenderism.
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Your a total soy boy.
SOY BOY. I’m getting old so I hadn’t heard this one yet. Thanks for the vocab upgrade. Good luck with your super-happy and stress-free relationships for the rest of your life. I’m sure they’ll be awesome.
Hey, I gotta say that while you’ve gotten a ton of flack for this article, I really appreciate it. It helps articulate a lot of things that women sometimes can’t say without it getting all dismissed as “the cow is PMS’ing again”. I really hope you write more, or maybe update this one if you don’t like it five years after. 🙂
JFC. This is great. Thanks so much! But (and I mean this kindly), I think it’s even deeper.
It’s not about dishes, or her feelings, or anyone’s perspective.
It’s about power.
Men don’t want to let it go, and women don’t have to settle for the lack of it anymore. It’s a conflict, for sure.
Also, dear God, disable the comments already. These trolls make weep.
I came here after seeing the NYT article. It’s nice to see someone write that it’s never about “the glass”. This is something often discussed in therapy. When there is a conflict over seemingly minor issues, it is because a deeper conflict is being played out in proxy. That being said, when I was having this same household cleanliness struggle with my own partner who by my standards is kind of a slob, he made an interesting point, namely: I was the one setting the standards of cleanliness of the house, and I was assuming he would cohere to those standards. Is that actually fair? I saw that it wasn’t fair. I don’t really enjoy living in a messy house; but for the sake of my relationship, I stopped making the assumption that he had to do things my way and have also stopped cleaning up after him. I feel less resentful. And in return, he has started cleaning the kitchen! So, in this case it was me who made the shift that you did, with a different aesthetic outcome, but a better emotional one.
I deeply admire you for taking handle of your emotions. Matt seems to forget that their is an inherit amount of importance in each action. Our actions reflect our character, but some actions are mostly irrelevant and unimportant.. cleanliness is only important to the extent that it actually effects organization and livelihood. It is not a representation of how much your partner loves you, it’s a representation of cleaning habits. Now if I refuse to go to a funeral with my wife for her family because I want to stay home and play video games.. that’s not fair. But that’s clearly immensely important, like actually meaningful. Dishes are not that important no matter how much you rationalize feeling upset at the end of the day it is unfair to demand your partner do things exactly according to you or you will take it to mean she doesn’t love you. Sounds like manipulation, that’s because it is manipulation. Should’ve made it clear what your cleaning habits are. He doesn’t complain about the house being too clean and he can’t set something down for a second or it will be reorganized. It’s not a one way street and it’s unfortunate your wife made you feel you were such a poor lover over something so nominal. She should’ve made the relationship more important than the dishes.
Late to the party here, but in my first marriage, my husband demanded a much higher standard of cleanliness, to use your terminology, but he wanted me to do it ALL – even while I was supporting us and paying all the bills working full time while he went to grad school and worked part time. So HE was home a lot more than *I* was! I told him that, if he wanted the house *cleaner* than I did, he should be willing to put that amount of effort into it, but he wanted the result without having to do any of the work himself. I dumped him after 3 years; the incumbent husband and I have been married almost 30 years.
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A member of a FB group I belong to shared this today, and reading it brought tears to my eyes. Thanks for writing it, and the other articles in your blog. I’m glad I found it.
I have trouble following the logic here. In principal you agree with the male side, but ultimately come to the conclusion that the man is wrong and should just do what the wife wants to maintain the relationship. Why is that responsibility solely on the man?
What you miss is that a relationship is not a one-way street. The wife does not have the right to blow up at the husband because she wanted the glass in the dishwasher. It’s as much on her to say exactly what you’ve spelled out here – how it feels disrespectful when repeatedly asked, etc..
The flip side is – the man should not be treated with disrespect, resentment and anger over a glass. The husband should not be the manager of a wife’s irrational emotions. Sure he should be validating and supporting, but doing so does remove any responsibility from the wife. Both sides have a responsibility to communicate and not just throw punches or be a punching bag for the partner.
I promise you that I’m not a proponent of toxic behavior by anyone. If you’re mistreated by your wife, it’s bullshit and I’m sorry. You can never have a trusting, respectful relationship as long as that’s happening.
In my experience, in male-female relationships, pain is happening. Pain. The kind that hurts.
And when the wife mentions this pain in hopes that her husband might want her to not hurt anymore and help her out, the response is that she’s wrong, overreacting, weak, or that he was/is justified in doing things the way he does them.
Leaving her to, 100% of the time, discover that her husband—intentionally or otherwise—will not participate in the pain stopping.
No trust. No safety. Relationship will eventually end one way or another. (Or suck forever.)
Of course it’s nuanced, and details and circumstances vary.
But what is usually missed by men who are not intentionally hurting their spouse is the notion that another human can still feel pain even if you didn’t mean to, and even if you think they shouldn’t.
That was the story of my marriage. It’s the story of many (maybe most) marriages.
Pain isn’t caused by bad men doing bad things.
It’s simply the result of things otherwise decent do, who fail to calculate accurately for the pain that is happening to another person in their blind spots.
Accidental wounds will destroy trust and end marriage just as surely as intentional ones will.
I’m open to the idea that some partners are super-unfair and totally inappropriate in the way they accost their spouses for the anger or inconvenience they feel.
But most of the time, someone actually hurts. And if they can’t trust their spouse to cooperate in helping that pain go away, what do you want from them? To grin and bear it? To just take it every day, week, month, year? Forever?
People don’t do that. Not you. Not me. Not romantic partners who feel hurt by things their spouses might do or say.
But what about your hurt if your wife strikes back irrationally? I get your point – but a wife being unintentionally hurt is not a license to cause hurt! As adults, don’t we depend on our spouse to talk to us calmly about their thoughts and feelings?
You don’t seem to address the wife’s role in this at all. What a miserable life to be treated so poorly by a wife who can’t communicate her hurt and needs her emotions managed for her. I don’t think my wife is toxic – but she uses your logic as a total one way street where she carries no responsibility for the hurt she causes and has no desire to learn from her hurtful words. It’s all my fault no matter how many times I’ve comforted, validated and acknowledged her requests. But when I reach my breaking point – I’m the bad one.
You mention in another post that you changed the last two years of your marriage but it made no difference to your wife – yet you don’t hold her accountable for giving up when you were doing exactly what she needed?
Ultimately compromise should be a two way street – I can do better in validating her feelings but if she chooses to still lash out every time she has a negative emotion, how is she not just as guilty as I was??? It seems that giving in and doing what she wants, no matter how irrational, would just encourage more bad behavior.
Your view seems awfully one sided, and removes any responsibility from the wife (toxic or not). Who wants to be a slave simply to stay in the relationship and get little to nothing in return?
I don’t point fingers at others until I have my own house in order. I’ll worry about all of the ways my wife could have been better when I fully understand and accept responsibility my shortcomings.
RE: “irrationally.”
1. I’m not entirely sure you get to decide what is and is not a rational reaction to feeling hurt for the 78,000th time by the person who promised to love you forever.
2. When our 4-year-old children are crying because they’re afraid of a monster hiding under their bed, it’s totally irrational. But when we tell them that, and say that they need to toughen up because there’s nothing to cry about, our relationship suffers even though we’re “right.”
I would ask you (anyone) to consider choosing to build trust between you and your wife instead of focusing on whether you perceive something to be “rational” or “fair” or “correct.”
It doesn’t matter. Being right is not a metric that improves relationships. It might win debate competitions and earn a pat on the back at work.
At home with our spouses and children, “being right” invalidates others’ experiences and slowly erodes their trust in our ability/willingness to help when something is wrong.
When we prioritize trust over winning the battle of ideas, we improve our relationships.
This is too nuanced and complicated to cover in blog comments.
I don’t think people should be married if they don’t want to be. If your wife is a monster, I won’t judge you for choosing a different life.
But. Just maybe she’s not a monster. Just maybe she’s acting EXACTLY like someone who repeatedly feels hurt, invalidated, alone, unsupported, rarely considered, unwanted physically, etc.
And maybe, learning how to communicate and consider her emotional wants/needs is the path to restoring trust and having the marriage you originally believed you were signing up for, and presumably, want.
To not do that work because it’s hard and inconvenient is exactly the sorts of decisions I made when my marriage was failing.
And it’s not who I want to be.
2. When our 4-year-old children are crying because they’re afraid of a monster hiding under their bed, it’s totally irrational. But when we tell them that, and say that they need to toughen up because there’s nothing to cry about, our relationship suffers even though we’re “right.”
But t you don’t pretend that it makes rational sense for them to be scared. You explain that it is irrational and their imagination and emotions are out of line with reality. You don’t remodel the home and remove the closet so you can make your kids feelings valid.
Thir feelings are valid but irrationally based, end of story. They need to be introduced to rationality. Their thoughts are unconstrained by the rationality of reality because they haven’t been taught yet. Your wife should know the dishes under the bed won’t hurt her. You don’t sound like a slob it literally sounds like a couple dishes by the sink Herr and there.
I understand your wife is allowed to be upset and might rationalize it but if it’s seriously only a couple dishes and it doesn’t actually effect her on any serious level then she is just being nitpicky and wanting her way in everything.
Please don’t remodel your home and remove the closet, just explain that the monsters aren’t real and we can stop being hurt and scared over something that isn’t actually hurtful or scary.
If you told your kids be quiet monsters aren’t real go to bed then obviously you didn’t put enough thought into explaining the situation and it’s fair for them to feel there might still be some validity in their fear. That would be your fault.. You didn’t or couldn’t communicate with your wife openly and fully. Either that or your cleanliness goals are different and that’s fine nobody is In the wrong. Some things aren’t inherently important but personally important and the other isn’t wrong for not doing things your way since there isn’t always a “right” or “wrong” person in every situation.
You maybe could’ve done better in certain ways and she maybe could’ve done better in certain ways. Why does all the blame have to go to one person, a relationship is a dynamic of two.
Patrick. You get to do and be whoever and whatever you want.
The sum of my 8 1/2 years of this work is that the erosion of trust is what ruins and ends relationships. And I believe we erode trust accidentally.
You are all about that dish by the sink.
I’m not. I’m about the conversation about the dish by the sink. I’m about whether my actions communicate that I consider my spouse when I make decisions, or whether I do not. Intentionally or accidentally, she will still trust me less if I do not.
And I believe these are the areas people should focus their attention (1. validating — NOT agreeing with — pain their partner feels, and 2. A habit of mindfully considering our partner when we make decisions.)
When those two things are habitually being done, we don’t have “irrational” emotionally heavy conflict in the relationship. We have trust. Respect. Safety—not in a danger way; in a reliability way.
This is what I believe are the most important relationship skills. (Typically for men.) And I don’t believe these are obvious or that young men are taught this. They just grow up doing their best, and their relationships turn to shit.
I don’t want them to. Because they don’t have to. Everyone can win.
And I believe these are the areas people should focus their attention (1. validating — NOT agreeing with — pain their partner feels, and
I agree, just as you should work to understand why your wife gets worked up over dishes, your wife should also understand that her getting upset over dishes is really effecting you emotionally. Are your feelings invalid?
2. A habit of mindfully considering our partner when we make decisions.)
Just as you should consider how not putting the dish away might effect your wife’s feelings about the house… before she decides to be angry over dishes by the sink, she may consider your desire for a more relaxed environment and choose to let you have your way ocassionally. It’s compromise. Relationships are an intersection, not a one way street.
Patrick – Exactly.
Matt, you still have failed to address why the husband must tolerate the wife’s anger and always compromise but the wife is not held to the same standard.
Her emotions somehow give her a free pass to do and say anything she wants – basically acting like a child? But Men must be validating while being mistreated in a way that no woman would tolerate?
Should there not be basic levels of respect and core values in a relationship?
Why is it ok for a wife to be disrespectful, unappreciative, negative, etc..? That’s seems like intentional hurt which is much more concerning than unintentional actions by a man?
If you talk to me like an adult, I will gladly listen and validate. But what right does a wife have to be so selfish and immature to cross line of basic respect because she needs help processing her emotions?
Her right to her emotions doesn’t mean she gets to do or so whatever she wants because she thinks a simple “I didn’t mean to be disrespectful, sorry” is a valid excuse later. My right to a calm positive home life is just as important as her need for validation – and it’s
HER actions that are eroding trust in the relationship.
Looks to me that there are a few men/Husbands/Fathers in this thread who are EXCELLENT communicators….and yet very little acknowledgement of that fact. Bottom line is that Matt is mostly correct that there are massive amounts of pain in many(most) marriages. And its possible (even likely!) that that and the ensuing damage to partnerships and Family is being done by many, many women in these relationships. Yet, as noted, there is very little attention paid to this, much less accountability. Its interedting, isnt it?
At what point does it end? At what point does she not have a right to hold the “you don’t value me” card? You see just because someone has an emotion, it does not mean that emotion is a legitimate way to react to a situation.
While actions may signal some feelings for the other, that does not mean that is how they truly feel. You can love someone all you want and still be clumsy in how you show it.
Your wife simply took something she saw about you and then used it to justify not staying with you. You did change the last 2 years no? That tells you that she wanted out no matter what and making you into the insensitive jerk made her look like the good guy here. I guarantee you could’ve done the opposite from day one and you would still be divorced.
My wife loves to never replace the hand towel in our bathroom despite me asking her to not do that for years. Now according to this article, I could claim she doesn’t love me because she doesn’t value my request. I could claim she’s taking me for granted…………or I could realize that maybe she just doesn’t mean to do this and still loves me. I could look at all the good things she does and realize that the few things that she does that I ask her not to do is just part of living with someone. Understanding that the person I share a bed with is their own person and has a life of their own. IDK which is a healthier way to engage in a relationship, looking for signs of not being loved, or signs that I am?
Your article is true in a sense that couples should be cognitive of the needs of their spouse, however that doesn’t mean we should all be nothing but slaves to unreasonable demands. You have 100’s of women who read this and now run out thinking that if their man doesn’t abide by their every instruction, it’s a slight and a signal they don’t value them.
A better message would be to tell people that one action or lack of action doesn’t necessarily mean they are not valued or loved. As I said above, looking for signs you are loved rather than signs you are not will be far better in the long run for couples.
I can pretty much guarantee that, from the wife’s standpoint, this glass is the tip of the iceberg. She feels that this one thing is symptomatic of a variety of things about which he pays no attention to her desire. Because that became the straw that broke the camel’s back, and it was one more occasion of this that led her to say, “I’ve had it; we are finished,” he is posturing that it was all about that glass.
This is NOT to say that I think she was justified, as I don’t have the whole picture. Also, this is NOT to say that he the things he did of which she approved may not have been sufficient compensation to ignore the glass thing. Also, it is NOT to say that she may not have been equally guilty in quantity or quality of things to which he objected. It is only to say that the glass thing, from her standpoint, is just one of a list of things with which she was dissatisfied. And, if they were both sufficiently dis-satisfied with the omissions and commissions of the other, maybe it was time to part ways. And, just as a final thought, the glass thing may just have been her spoken reason for giving up; there could have been a whole bunch more that she did not voice. And, on the other side of the coin, she may even have taken up with a new guy, and wanted to leave her husband for him, and this glass business was simply a subterfuge for her real motivation.
“And, on the other side of the coin, she may even have taken up with a new guy, and wanted to leave her husband for him, and this glass business was simply a subterfuge for her real motivation.”
I’d wager this might have some merit. If he had changed like he had said, and unless he was a total monster to live with, the relationship should have been salvageable.
Now it may not be that at that all and other things that caused it, but having her mind made up sure seems like she had moved on and wanted to do so for a long time.
I understand that the “glass” is representative of more than one issue. However, if there were deeper things that made her think that he didn’t value her, he should have shared them rather than use something so inconsequential.
The danger in all of this is that people reading this might well think all their requests should be completed. It gives a false sense of what love actually is and places too much emphasis on peripheral things. Yes we should do what we can to meet the needs of the other, but both parties cannot just feel they’re entitled to have it their way because it validates the relationship. Relationships are like a formula and not just one part makes the whole.
Bingo! Of course Bingo!!
But what you point out requires both parties to hold being an Adult as a high value. Which seems to be a rarity. Which in turn is more than unfortunate. As you allude to, relationships would be a helluva lot healthier if the default was to find that health rather than look for disease. Glad to know someone sees it….
So, in this hard and inconvenient work, where does the Adulting fit in? Maybe its just not that complicated? Is it possible that many wives (not all!) are extended adolescents? Maybe behaving that way, along with unhealthy doses of entitlement, has taken its toll. And maybe men/Husbands/Fathers have had enough. Cue the hand- wringing and associated bullshit, but maybe lets examine this, speaking generally, ofc: are women under 50 more mature than their counterparts over 50?
I’ll try to say it as clearly, simply, and briefly as I know how:
1. I don’t care whether people get married or not. I don’t even really care whether they stay married, in general. What I care about are the two people who WANT to be married, but are frustrated by what feels like the same fight over and over again.
2. I believe the same fight stems from invisible pain. Wives — as adolescent as you might want to characterize them — consistently report feeling intense pain over a couple of ideas, and my coaching work is about addressing those ideas in the form of developing some new habits. Those habits are: 1. Eliminating the habit of invalidating our partners when they tell us that something hurts them. It turns out that people WILL feel pain when painful experiences happen to them independent of how you and I feel about that, and if they’re married to someone who consistently responds as if they’re somehow stupid or weak or unworthy of love and care, they will lose trust in us over time, and eventually choose a new life. It’s not weird. If you and I were perpetually hurt by a thing, said so, and our partner refused to participate in alleviating the pain point, you and I would also eventually walk away. 2. The second habit lives under the umbrella of the word Consideration.
RE: consideration
What wives (usually — this isn’t specifically a sex/gender thing) consistently report feeling in disconnected, non-intimate, non-trusting marriages is this:
“I feel as if I’m married to someone who doesn’t consider me when he makes decisions.”
Not: He’s a selfish asshole who always intentionally chooses himself over me because he’s trying to hurt me.
Not that at all.
But the idea that she wakes up every day and always always always makes decisions which factor in her husband (and children, if applicable). Everything she does, 100-percent of the time, takes into account her family’s schedule, wants, needs, etc. Even things like when to schedule a hair appointment. She will frequently go at some time that’s inconvenient for her in order to accommodate kids’ extracurricular schedule needs, or her husband’s things.
And her husband, it would seem, doesn’t filter his decision-making through that same filter. He consistently demonstrates that he does not always consider his wife or family’s wants/needs/schedules when he does things.
Not because he’s an asshole trying to hurt her or his children on purpose. But because he’s busy and he forgot.
He doesn’t do painful things on purpose. They happen in his blindspots.
So, when you’re this wife, the worst-case scenario is that you’re married to someone who intentionally does things his way, even if it make her life more difficult. He doesn’t give a shit how she feels.
And the BEST-case scenario, is that he simply forgot. Always, always, always, he forgets. These are accidents happening in his blind spots.
The best-case scenario is that she is so low on his personal priority list, it never even occurs to him to consider how things he does or says might affect her.
So, when you’re the wife, your husband is a threat to hurt you on purpose, or by accident, every day forever.
And when you dare to speak up about it, you’re told that your brain is thinking about it the wrong way, or your feeling weak and girly about it, or regardless, he was justified in doing the things he chose, even if it hurt. “I’m not a bad guy! You shouldn’t be treating me this way.”
She NEVER wins. EVER. She never ever gets to say: “Hey. This thing hurt me.” And then be treated by her husband as if it’s important to him that she not hurt, or as if he’s willing to invest energy in subtly changing something he does or doesn’t do in order to alleviate her of this pain.
Therefore, she can’t trust him to not hurt her.
And the choice is, try different ways to get him to listen to her, OR leave, OR stay in a marriage forever where you’re treated as Less Than every day.
I’m not asking you to agree with the wives in this situation. I’m not.
I’m asking you to understand why someone in THAT situation — one that’s different than your experience — might say and do things much differently than you would. (While recognizing that if the roles were reversed, you’d be feeling the same things she is.)
I don’t care whether you’re married or not. Don’t be married if you think women are shithole monsters.
I’m saying IF you want to be married, perhaps considering that a couple of your habits which don’t adversely affect other people in your life might be inadvertently triggering pain in your partner.
And if you genuinely love her and don’t want her to feel pain, then it’s on you to make a couple of changes — NOT on her to magically stop feeling pain over things that she experiences as hurtful.
Oh ffs Matt…there are so many strawmen in this response. Its almost as if you dont want to acknowledge any view(s) other than those youve already articulated. As mentioned, cue the hand-wringing and associated bullshit.
This is obv an important topic/conversation for many reasons. It should be undertaken with open minds and open hearts.
They would rather complain that their wives are wrong than to consider how she feels. I wonder how many of them are divorced?
If you think your wife is irrational you are not respecting her. And you probably shouldn’t be married. Of course, it is possible she is constantly asking for little things that are meaningless and controlling – but if it is just one simple request that a spouse can easily meet then why wouldn’t they? Why wouldn’t they want to make their spouse happy? That’s the whole point of the article. You should want to be supportive of your spouse as they should be of you. And the same goes in reverse. If you ask something trivial from your wife – like remembering to lock the car doors for example – and she refuses to do it because she doesn’t think it matters – wouldn’t you feel disrespected? The task doesn’t really matter – it is just knowing that something is bothering your spouse, and choosing to not care po do anything about it, that is the issue.
You clearly did not read my entire response. Yes, someone can be irrational without cause – it’s called being immature and lacking control of one’s emotions. I actually agree with the rest of your response because it includes several of the points I made! It’s a two way street – I absolutely want to make my wife happy and will do the little things she requests because I want to keep the peace and make her feel acknowledged. Unfortunately it hasn’t gone both ways. Hypocritically, far more is expected of me than her. My simple requests are dismissed, yet that dish better go in the dishwasher. That’s the point Matt never addresses in all his wisdom. Even after he realized his mistakes and worked on them – it was too late for his ex-wife, yet she strung him along for another couple years. She apparently couldn’t be bothered to put the same effort in. Sorry, life shouldn’t be pleasing someone else and hoping they respond – it should be a true partnership.
Daria read your response….she just doesnt understand it. She doesnt want to. Its a willing ignorance. That way, responsibility for being a mature adult can be outsourced somewhere else. Or simply absconded.
I do understand your response. And you’re right – we are saying similar things. I just think in you’re situation your spouse isn’t meeting you half way. In my past relationship, I felt I was giving too much and my partner was barely lifting a finger to do anything for me. I felt completely unappreciated. So it can go either way. I think our own past experiences shift how we interpret the article above. I assume in Matt’s situation he was the spouse not making much effort in general, and you assume Matt’s wife was being too demanding and he was doing too much for her. Only he and his wife really know. Obviously there needs to be a balance!
You really explained that well, Matt. Thanks.
The main point I read was dishes are more important than him and he is blessed to be out of that relationship. Its unfortunate he only made it about taking ownership of what he thinks she thinks he did wrong. Seriously though, some materialistic wives feel the condition of the house reflects on their image which is more important than their husband’s free will to be reasonably relaxed in his home. The promise of her perfect home is likely the reason they married the husband so if he can’t give her exactly what she wants in that aspect she really has no reason to stay , especially when she can take half the money. Your right though Matt, make sure you put that glass away for your future wife or you will be recognized as a worthless child, do everything she says cus men are supposed to do everything their wives want while the wife doesn’t compromise or try to contain her yes irrational, emotions.
I would think that you would totally understand what he is trying to say if you could just remove the genders and think of everyone as just people in a partnership.
In your situation, it sounds like your partner is making you feel less important to them than her need for a clean home. I’m guessing that there are other aspects of your life in which you feel that your partner does not take your preferences/feelings into account, leaving you feeling like they do not value you or care. You resent it and that resentment is growing each time they repeat the behavior. Your partner’s making a big deal out of the “glass” is just another nail in the coffin of she only wants me for my (house, money, or whatever it may be in your case). You feel your partner is destroying the relationship by being petty. You’re tired of being used, abused, and neglected.
It’s kinda the same situation, yet in reverse. If it seemed that your partner valued you in the partnership and was concerned about your well being, it’s likely that you would also want to make their lives happier and putting the glass in the dishwasher would be something you do because it really is insignificant and makes your partner’s life better.
If you feel that everything that they do to make your life better is just their obligation instead of them using their freewill, you wont value it. If you recognize that they are making your life better, then you will likely want to do the same.
I think a lot of this has to do with culturally assumed roles and the idea that people are just supposed to do those things. We’ll news flash, we all make choices all day, every day to do things. When we feel like we are doing things that benefit others any don’t feel that it is reciprocated or appreciated, that can manifest into the glass of water argument.
We need to look at ALL of the things our we and our partners do and decided whether everyone is being considered. Most people like to work as a team. No one wants to be the only one giving. This is where communication really comes in. If your partner is making a big deal out of something small, there is a big deal underneath it. If things were good once, something has caused them to be bad. Talk and learn. When the hurt side of the relationship is met with, I wont talk. This isn’t important”, it makes them feel unimportant, unappreciated, and not valued”.
Care about your partner. Wouldn’t you want the same?
It’s kinda the same situation, yet in reverse. If it seemed that your partner valued you in the partnership and was concerned about your well being, it’s likely that you would also want to make their lives happier and putting the glass in the dishwasher would be something you do because it really is insignificant and makes your partner’s life better.
If you feel that everything that they do to make your life better is just their obligation instead of them using their freewill, you wont value it. If you recognize that they are making your life better, then you will likely want to do the same.
I think a lot of this has to do with culturally assumed roles and the idea that people are just supposed to do those things. We’ll news flash, we all make choices all day, every day to do things. When we feel like we are doing things that benefit others any don’t feel that it is reciprocated or appreciated, that can manifest into the glass of water argument.
We need to look at ALL of the things our we and our partners do and decided whether everyone is being considered. Most people like to work as a team. No one wants to be the only one giving. This is where communication really comes in. If your partner is making a big deal out of something small, there is a big deal underneath it. If things were good
If you are constantly clearing up after your partner you will feel like less of a “teammate” and more of a “dogsbody”.
Not sure the argument works to say “if you really loved your partner you would just clean up after them and not disrupt them being lazy.”
The point you are missing is that him not trying to be better about the dishes is upsetting her. You can’t control what makes you upset. But you can easily take 4 seconds to put a cup in the dishwasher. You are acting like she is choosing to pick fights with him for fun! And I guess it is possible – but unlikely. All you can control in a relationship is your own actions. If you want a better relationship, you should at least try to do things that make your spouse happy. That’s pretty basic. If your spouse can’t return the favor, then maybe its not meant to be. But you have to at least try. If you keep dismissing their requests because you personally don’t think its a big deal, then you are being dismissive of their feelings. And that hurts. Period.
If you start putting your dishes in the dishwasher and then your spouse finds a new thing to complain about again and again, I get the concern. But a lot of times it is just one or two things that really get on your nerves, and just even seeing a little effort from your spouse to try and fix those things can feel amazing. You feel that the other persons cares and is making an effort. That can be hugely beneficial for a relationship.
I think you’re missing the boat here buddy.
You’re focused too much on the final straw and not the journey up to it. Take away the “wife is angry and emotional and other bs”, and focus on that the wife asked him to do a simple chore. No more important than taking out the trash, doing your laundry, or cleaning the tub.
Now imagine that your wife (if you even are married), didn’t clean up after herself at all, and you were left to do all the chores. When asking for acknowledgment to help around the house she replies “Stop being so negative, its not a big deal. You know what since you’ve explicitly asked me to do chores, I am going to do the complete opposite. Matter a fact lets have an argument over whos right and wrong because you came to me asking for help. Idiot. I am right. “.
You’d most likely break up with that person in a heart beat, right?
Maybe after a few dozen arguments when its about the other simple chores, cause if they aren’t doing the water cup, why would you assume they would do anything at all?
The little things start to pile up, because you have two immature a-holes not wanting to work together, and wanting to work as individuals.
All the wife wants is to be heard and validated THROUGH ACTION, you know cause they married this person you would assume that they would be willing to cooperate with you on simple matters.
Maybe they weren’t ready to get married cause they are both acting like a bunch of children. Refusing to validate each others pain points, and work on it together. They both decided that being right about a meaningless argument was worth more than there love for each other, if it was ever there in the first place.
To summarize and validate everything you’ve taken the time to write:
Is the glass a stupid thing to argue about? Yes.
Should the wife have gotten upset over it? Yes.
Should she have left him? Yes, a lot sooner, matter of fact they shouldn’t have even gotten married.
Should the wife be set to the same standard of responsibility? Of course. If I had a wife who ate on the bed, and I asked her not to, you best bet that would be held to the same standard.
Is the point here to show who is right and wrong? No.
The point is to recognize that we don’t know everything, and we may never. But if we can get some insight into the mind of our partner, and be able to identify when pain points are being pushed, maybe, and just maybe we can actually change our behavior and put the damn cup in the wash because its gonna help us get laid tonight, and live a joyful easy life. Hopefully.
This is a really fantastic post. It really resonates with me, and has made me think about my own relationship.
I can see from some of the comments that not everyone “gets” it, which is a shame, but I don’t think your point could have been any clearer.
Thank you for writing it, even though it was a few years ago now.
Thank you, Pete. I’ve gotten a little better about my word choice and tone when discussing these things. I’d do a better job today. But still. Appreciate the comment, sir.
Thank you for this post and your thoughtful responses to the comments. I’m recently out of a relationship with someone who reacted defensively no matter how I brought up an issue, whether big or small. I would try to explain that you can validate someone’s feelings without agreeing. Didn’t penetrate. I observed that it seemed he wanted to be right and what I wanted was to be heard, that it was not about right or wrong, and that this seemed to be where we were getting stuck. Didn’t penetrate. After recognizing that defensiveness was his go-to reaction I asked, “How can I bring things to you so you can hear me?” I kid you not, his response was “You should only bring me valid concerns.”
I’d routinely get spun around into defending my needs and feelings while fending off accusations that I was trying to control him, or wanted him to “grovel and cowtow.” It took me a while to really see what was going on. Your posts articulate the issue so clearly and simply – I only wish I’d seen them sooner. Despite already being familiar with these concepts, I never thought of it in terms of trust and emotional safety. I feel lucky to have gotten away after just 2+ years and without getting married (not surprisingly, his first wife left him and I never heard him acknowledge any role in that). Many thanks!
I almost married someone who was the exact same! We had similar arguments over and over where he just refused to even acknowledge how I felt. It made me feel crazy. I would explain to him – I would do “this thing” for you if I knew it would make you happy, why don’t you want to do nice things for me to support my happiness? He did not have the emotional capacity to understand. Literally no empathy. So sad. He only did nice things if he thought of it himself or it was on his terms. But he would never change anything about the way he did things or behaved if I explained to him that it hurt me. He just blamed me for being emotional and told me to get over it. He wanted me to deal with my feeling myself and he would deal with his own as well. What is the point of a relationship like that? It was terrible. Glad I got out!
I’m sooo much happier now with my husband. He listens to me – we have great communication. Plus he actually finds enjoyment in making me happy, as I do with him.
This is such a great and informative post!! thank you so much for taking the time to post!! (and please don’t give all these trolls in the comments too much weight. they are exactly what they are — trolls . nothing more) … best wishes to you and your family!!
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Sorry for your loss Matt. I read the article and can relate – had a huge blow up with my husband last week – similar problem and I know he doesn’t understand why I’m so upset. but there are broken promises involved. Would love to hear if you’ve found a way to bridge the gap. When you have time maybe update this one with your learnings over the past few years. Then I’ll send a copy to him and we can talk.
I think whenever I’ve been annoyed about stuff like this, it’s when it seems to accompany an attitude that women are servants. Everyone is messy sometimes, not everyone thinks it’s someone else’s job to pick up after them.
Wow – I just so feel this exactly and I’m blown away you have the insight and understanding Matt. Great job being able to put aside your own pride and look at another person’s feelings.
I feel completely neglected emotionally by my husband because no matter how much I tell him a certain action or word hurts me he doesn’t care or make any adjustment and frequently tells me I just shouldn’t feel that way or I’m just being sensitive.
He has told me he doesn’t care about me, he doesn’t love me, he doesn’t want me, he would be fine if we weren’t together anymore, that he doesn’t like the way I am with the kids, that I should read books on how to be more attractive etc. And when I tell him it hurts me when he says these things he says I shouldn’t be affected by someone else and that I’m just sensitive.
I can’t fathom how blind somebody can be to how they’re hurting some one and how they can not care about the heart of the person they are supposed to love.
I wish my husband would understand what you have come to understand because then I would feel cared for and loved but now I just feel like he dismisses my every feeling and minimizes my heart. It is heartbreaking to be in a relationship with somebody like that but I’m conflicted because I don’t want the kids to grow up in a broken family.
It also pains me to see how ignorant and self focused many of the men commenting on this post are and I feel bad for their partners. From my observation it seems like it hard for men to look at the well being of others, many of them appear to be concerned mostly just for themselves. It is too bad.
This is a heart breaking post and, given you don’t wish to separate I hope you and your husband can work through things.
One thing I will say however – you say you don’t want your kids to live in a broken home – I would think about the behaviours being modelled for your kids. From the sounds of it your husband is constantly belittling you. What message does this teach your sons and your daughters.
I do consider this a lot because it’s a valid point. At this point he’s an excellent father and most of the put downs are done in private but I know as the kids get older they will be more perceptive.
It feels like I have 2 bad options to choose from.
This has been a rather tumultuous weekend for me, in fact when I wrote that post yesterday I was staying in my parents basement after deciding to separate (at least physically if not yet legally) from my husband after a particular painful few days with him. Today he pursued me and showed me cared about how I feel and is going to change and has agreed to go to therapy. I am grateful he decided to prioritize the relationship and make me feel like I was important to him. He was willing to put aside his pride and do something that was important to me even though he didn’t want to do it. That meant a lot me and I hope this is the change that we needed to make it.
Thank you for hearing my story
I hope you can overcome this and value each other’s company.
But if at the end, your husband doesn’t appreciate you, don’t be afraid to separate.
Children can notice when a parent is really disrespectful and sometimes you can wish your parents just separated bc they’re so much better than together. You can love your parents but it just hurts to see them mistreat each other.
Stay strong
Maybe at this point he’d be willing to try some couples counselling?
If your husband says those things, he needs help and sense knocked into him.
Now lets cut the bull………Just because there are guys who do not agree with the author’s take, that doesn’t mean they are like your husband.
The author stated he changed the last 2 years and that didn’t save his marraig. That tells you the “pain” he caused is wife wasn’t pain at all but an excuse for her to leave a relationship she didn’t want to be part of.
Your kids are going to learn how to treat their partners the way you and your husband treat each other. So staying together while this is going on may not be for your or their best.
You talk about your faults but what qualities did your wife have that brought value to your life other than dealing with the kids. Too many women don’t realize that men will suffer in silence but their treatment of them is a reflection of how much value they bring to that men. Men need to be taught that its ok to demand more and if she can’t meet your standards you should be able to leave without getting screwed in the courts.
Going by this article she evidently brought a lot of value to his life as he regrets the break-up.
If he saw no value in the marriage with his wife he would have been very happy about her decision to leave.
Also when you say “screwed in the courts” do you mean an equitable distribution of the marital assets and child support?
Because that is always how it’s used.
If you are worried about being “screwed in the courts” as an unhappy husband you should actually research the topic properly. Women actually end up poorer post divorce and men richer.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/480333/
“ Despite the common perception that women make out better than men in divorce proceedings, women who worked before, during, or after their marriages see a 20 percent decline in income when their marriages end, according to Stephen Jenkins, a professor at the London School of Economics. His research found that men, meanwhile, tend to see their incomes rise more than 30 percent post-divorce. Meanwhile, the poverty rate for separated women is 27 percent, nearly triple the figure for separated men.”
This sounds an awful lot like the gender wage gap issue. The reality is likely multi-faceted.
:Also when you say “screwed in the courts”:
The sad reality is that divorce *decimates* wealth. Living expenses for TWO domiciles are obviously far more expensive than sharing one; when each spouse gets HALF of the family wealth, it’s clearly much, MUCH less than it was as a single balance.
Of course it’s going to feel like a knife in the gut, given how hard people work to create a sound financial foundation for the rest of their lives.
Divorce shatters it.
Regardless of which side you’re on.
And I forgot to include the legal fees…
True and tragic enough. I tend to agree that as to custody and support, husbands are more likely to get a raw deal, but not as to property division. Unfortunately, many men think that paying a reasonable sum for the support of their child or children is unfar
Hmmm…wonder why it is you think this?
It was a long time ago that I got divorced; Dec of 1988. But my ex was certain that paying under $1000 a month in child support was outrageous. For four kids. On a salary, at that time, of about $60K.
So in answer to your snarky question: the people with higher incomes in a divorce tend to be men. And for reasons that I can’t begin to understand, they believe that the money they pay towards the housing, clothing and feeding of their own children is too much.
It’s almost as though they never bothered to see what house payments, kids clothes and groceries actually cost.
Interesting. 20% of his income went to child support then, correct? You got divorced…meaning 2 ppl now had to live seperately. What percentage of yearly income would you consider ‘fair’ to support both residences (housing, food, utilities, etc)? Were you also working/contributing? Were you required to show how much of that $1K went DIRECTLY to supporting those kids? If not, why not?
And how many working ppl do you know, regardless of income, that dont know the details of their financial situation?
Of course I was working. In what universe can a mother and four kids live on $975 a month, even in 1989?
And seriously? If the person paying child support isn’t required to account for what they do with the rest of the money, why should CHILD SUPPORT be somehow the duty if they person receiving it to report to a person with whom the only relationship is that they are the other parent of their children.
If you really think that is a reasonable e pectation, it’s no wonder you seem to be a bitter , resentful person.
Again, interesting. I’m wondering who actually seems bitter and resentful…
Did he have joint custody?
Although apparently it does not decimate wealth equally as the link shows.
But the choice to separate / remain together is not just about finances. Emotional and mental health is too important to sacrifice for money.
Sorry, I put my comment as a reply up top instead of here. Should I move it?
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I love this, and I think it it’s written perfectly. It’s not about whether anyone might be being “petty” or “stubborn.” It is trying to explain that there are some complex thought patterns and feelings behind the actions. In this scenario, I am the person with the glass, and my husband is the person who gets annoyed by my setting it down next to the sink. [Aside: We don’t use our dishwasher, ever. Dishes go in the sink, and one of us washes them.] I too will leave a glass out when I know I’m going to use it again, only now I leave it on the other side of the kitchen with my pills (usually that is why I plan to use the glass again) instead of keeping it by the sink.
This post helped to reinforce and clarify something for me that I already knew: Why little behaviors can matter to your partner. I get it, and I’m thankful to have found this post! I can’t explain it any better than to say it just brought things into sharper focus for me. Planning to read more of this blog now!
P.S. My condolences on the loss of your parent. It is really hard to go through. I hope you’re doing okay.
That seems like a good solution. I work as a marriage counsellor, and it is often the little things that hurt people.
Here is what most dudes miss about the whole leaving stuff out unless someone else is coming over thing; you are telling her that any & all guests that visit your home are more important than she is. Only they deserve to see a beautifully put together home. Your wife only deserves to see the mess you make & to either put up with it or pick up after a grown man herself on top of everything else she does for you.
She cooks for you when you come home. She cleans so you have a nice looking home to come home from work & she doesn’t usually ask you to clean up after her unless she has a very good reason (illness or lack of time). She gets the kids to make you birthday cards, to do nice things for you & to show you their report cards. She creates a home for you to feel comfortable in & does your laundry so you have clean & fresh clothes to wear. She does all of this for you because she is showing you her love. She does more for you every single day than she does for guests because she created that home for you & maintains it to that standard every day. You, on the other hand, showed her that literally anyone else is more important than she is when you’ll only put that glass where it belongs if there is someone else coming over.
You’re right. It isn’t about the glass itself. It’s about, while she is doing everything she can to create a comfortable home for you to live in, you aren’t doing that for her & are actively telling her that you’ll only create that environment for anyone else who would be visiting your home. THAT is likely why the glass mattered to her. THAT is what you’re still missing. It’s worse because you will put that glass away if someone else would have to see it. You showed her that you can create a homey environment for someone else. You just won’t do it for her. That’s why you’re divorced & I don’t expect it’ll go better in another marriage unless you understand that any woman who you live with probably does not love doing all the chores she does but she does them anyway to create a home for you & your family. You should also want to create a beautiful home for the person you marry as well.
I’ve only recently found this (thank you reddit) I don’t know where I fall average age reading this but I feel like it’s a good article that the cup could be replaced by anything and I think that’s the point so thankyou for sharing your thoughts and insights on it during what must have been a difficult time. I’ve also read so many comments here and (I know it sounds ridiculous) but to those reading them don’t get disheartened the main thing here is communication and understanding. Thank you everyone who continued to build and be constructive.
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I’m the wife and primary wage earner in our household. I earn enough to afford a bi-weekly cleaner who does the bathrooms, vacuums, mops the floors etc so all we have to do is everyday tidying up, which we both find easy enough.(And yes, the cleaner earns a living wage with paid time off, health insurance and a retirement plan — before Covid, she would go sailing for three weeks off the coast of Croatia each summer.) IMO, hiring a cleaner is sometimes better than marriage counseling!
I relish having a challenging, high-paying job; my husband likes having time to write his novel, walk the dog, and do part-time web publishing (he has mad IT skills). To those who aren’t happy with their partners: step back and think really hard about life without them. My husband has spent the last two months in the hospital and neurology rehab clinic, recovering from a criminal assault that left him with a skull fracture and traumatic brain injury. This incident made both of us realize that life is too short, too uncertain and too fragile to obsess on negatives. Couples should take time to truly appreciate each other and actively focus on sustaining the joy, comfort and love that brought them together in the first place. Sometimes it’s hard, but it’s almost always worth the effort.
A very well thought out comment.
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Hi Matt,
I just want to leave a note saying that I don’t think this is always this say…Male leaves crap around, female gets pissed.
I have 2 beautiful kids and an ex-wife who never had the capacity to see that it wasn’t the cup that mattered, it was what the cup meant, just like you said.
You get tired, frustrated, resentful and then you leave.
“And this is important: Telling a man something that doesn’t make sense to him once, or a million times, doesn’t make him “know” something. Right or wrong, he would never feel hurt if the same situation were reversed so he doesn’t think his wife SHOULD hurt. It’s like, he doesn’t think she has the right to (and then use it as a weapon against him) because it feels unfair.”
This is the defination of Invalidation. It’s “wrong” for her to feel upset about it, so he can ignore it.
“Once someone figures out how to help a man equate the glass situation (which does not, and will never, affect him emotionally) with DEEPLY wounding his wife and making her feel sad, alone, unloved, abandoned, disrespected, afraid, etc. … Once men really grasp that and accept it as true even though it doesn’t make sense to them?
Everything changes forever.”
I think if a man was running a household of 4-5 people with all the mental load that goes along with it (housework, keeping track of everyone’s schedules, meeting emotional needs, etc.), he’d easily understand how leaving the glass out is disrespectful and hurtful. It’s not the glass, it’s the 100s of other times during the day when she takes care of adulting for him.
While I agree that you should take care of his glass just because she cares about it, even if he thinks that’s unreasonable, the invalidation is still a problem. You can take a step further and validate her. You don’t have to agree that you would have the same priorities, but it is possible to understand why it is reasonable for her to be upset about it.
Strongly agree. Validation is literally the #1 thing we work on in my coaching work.
I wrote this more than six years ago. I’m smarter now. (Barely.) It’s annoying how popular this remains. I’m sorry for everything that sucks about it.